IF U WERE PAUL, COULD U FORGIVE BRIAN FOR TRYING TO COME BETWEEN U AND HELEN?

[cc100]

[bonzobravo]

I don't believe that Brian, did anything wrong!

[splodge0]

You are joking, right?! :laugh:

:colour: :colour:
:colour:

[bonzobravo]

No, would you like to tell me what you THINK he did wrong?

[splodge0]

No, I meant that for cc100!!!! LOL :colour:

How could Brian come between Helen and Paul. Brians gay, right? :colour:

:colour: :colour:
:colour:

[cc100]

i dont mean like that, i know hes gay!!!

i mean he tried to stir it up

thats my impression

[bonzobravo]

Elizabeth tried to stir it up!

I think at the time Brian was just looking out for Helen as Elizabeth had told Brian about her converstion (60%/40%) with Paul. Of course she was selective about what Paul had said, but Brian did not know this.

Brian may have made some bitchy remarks about Paul, but this was because they didn't particularly get on, not because he was trying to come between them. and lets not forget he was p***ed

[bananarama]

You are quite right cc100. Brian. In quite a nasty way attempted to deter Helen from liking Paul let alone loving him. He was far worse than Elizabeth in his nastiness about Paul. Yes I have forgiven him because he is so likeable in other ways. But if I was paul I think I would find it very difficult.

It seems there are a few selected memories around here or the the series wasn't watched with the blinkers off. :nono:

[Romantic Old Bird]

Guess what? I think Paul probably forgave Brian about the moment he did this



http://sc.communities.msn.com/tn/4C/10/BigBrotherCommunity2001/2/2b.jpg

[Ig]

Well, he obviously HAS forgiven him, as they seem to get on well now.

My personal O-PIN-ION is that Brian was concerned about Helen, as he didn't like Paul much and thought he would hurt and humiliate her. I was of exactly the same opinion, and I'm delighted to have been proved wrong, as Brian will obviously be.

A true friend tells it like it is, warns you of the pitfalls of a given situation and doesn't just tell you what they think you want to hear. He impressed upon her time and time again that she shouldn't put all her eggs in one basket and count on Paul being there when she got out. This was based on statements and comments that Paul himself had made, his general attitude to women, and above all the 60/40 comment. Would you have liked to see Helen dissolve into floods of tears at the newspaper headlines showing Paul out with another girl?? For all they knew, that's exactly what would happen, and Brian in particular was simply trying to prepare her for the worst. ("selective memories"??? I don;t think so - just realistic and rational ones that don't try to stir things up when everyone is getting on fine. full marks to ROB for not rising to the bait.)

I don't think there's anything to forgive. No doubt Paul challenged Brian about his comments when they were all reunited, and my guess is that Brian would have said "Ok, so prove me wrong!" - which he has!

All's well that ends well!

[bonzobravo]

IG Spot on,

If I had been in Brian's situation I too would have been cynical about, how Paul was going to treat Helen once they were out the house. There is no harm in preparing some for the worse case scenario. I think its quite sweet that Brian cared enough, to risk being perceived as a sh*t stirer.

Like you IG I never thought there was a future for Helen & Paul, but I was wrong, and I am also glad to see that they are still together.

I think the real question should be:

Should Paul forgive Elizabeth for trying to build a rift between Helen & Paul?

[mary]

I watched many many hours of BB2, and I don't recall ever seeing Brian try to come between Helen and Paul. He was very fond of Helen and would never have done anything to hurt her.

On the last night of the show, after Davina had interviewed him, I remember him pointing to Helen and Paul, who were together, and grinning delightedly.

He has said several times how happy he is for them, and they in turn have never said anything bad about him. After all Brian is an incurable romantic, he loves a happy ending.

If only this years bunch had been as kind to one another.

:love:

[James]

Hello Mary and welcome to TIBB – possibly the best Big Brother message board in the world! - happy posting.

I agree with you 100%.

If Paul ever had any problem with what Brian said about him to Helen in the BB house, Paul undoubtedly now considers it water that has long since passed under the bridge and emptied into the sea.

It has to be remembered that these things were said in the cocoon that is the Big Brother house. The housemates weren’t privy to the way that the events of the house were being portrayed on television and didn’t know that the romance was seen as the main storyline. Brian or any other housemate shouldn’t be held accountable for remarks that they wouldn’t consider to be any more important than anything else they said.

It is very true that Brian has always been supportive of Helen and Paul when asked about them. Any criticism in the media has been conspicuous by its absence. The way I see it, of all the housemates, Stuart, Brian and Dean have, in fact, been most positive about Helen and Paul on the outside.

It would be reasonable if Paul found it more difficult to cast aside the things that Bubble and Josh, for example, said in media interviews after they left house. They knew how Paul was being portrayed in the press and how difficult it would be for him to deal with the papers on the outside. But I’m absolutely sure that Paul had little or no problem with them either, and if he had he’d consider it ancient history now anyway.

[bananarama]

A true friend tells it like it is, warns you of the pitfalls of a given situation and doesn't just tell you what they think you want to hear.


A very very dangerous philosophy. True friend don't meddle. True friends don't try and live someone’s life for them. The whole point is that no one has the monopoly on being right about another persons personality. Although a so called true friend may have "good intentions" That true friend could be wrong and yet they still risk influencing their "victim" for want of a better description. No my friend. True friends put up and shut up. They do not meddle unless invited to........And that is the advise that any true friend should give you.

[Ig]

A very very dangerous philosophy. True friend don't meddle.

That true friend could be wrong and yet they still risk influencing their "victim" for want of a better description. No my friend. True friends put up and shut up. They do not meddle unless invited to........

I'll remember that the next time one of my friends starts reaching for the self-destruct button, or has another nasty "fall" downstairs, and make sure my funeral suit is dry-cleaned ready.

No "my friend"! I'll stick to my own "very very dangerous philosophy" if you don't mind, and you can stick to yours.

[bonzobravo]

LOL@IG

You are right again!!!

[cc100]

no come on!!

if i were paul then i could be friendly/civil with him cos hes afriend of helens but, it would always be in the back of my mind(some of the things he said.

i also think that most of the other hm r jealous of the couple too and would love them 2 part.(esp. penny,elizabeth!)

[bonzobravo]

LOL

cc100 Helen & Paul are still together, and even IF he does think Brian was trying to build a rift between. I think Paul is a NICE guy, not the type to hold a grudge. I am sure he has completley forgotten the whole incident. Brian I feel was pleased to see they were together on the final show.

[Maggie]

The night of the argument about Paul, when Betty AND Brian were very nasty about Paul and all thier true feelings about him came through, if you watched it on E4 at the end of that night, you will have seen a very nasty side to Brian, concern for Helen, no way, just jealous, thinking they had taken his limelight. :mad:

[cc100]

too right mate

[bonzobravo]

Brian was bitchy about Paul, but not because he was trying to come between them, but because Paul irritated him. I saw the live feed on E4. He was just being bitchy, I found it funny to watch. So what Brian had a bit of a bitchy side. I know if I had been in Brian's shoes Paul would have irritated me, and I may of bitched about Paul.

[Ig]

Originally posted by discolady
if you watched it on E4 at the end of that night, you will have seen a very nasty side to Brian, concern for Helen, no way, just jealous, thinking they had taken his limelight. :mad:

I did watch it on E4, and it made me cringe, as Brian went way too far. egged on by Elizabeth. The fact remains I totally agreed with him, and they weren't stealing any limelight from me!!He was drunk, and that particular little bundle of resentment had been building for weeks. I'm not saying his motives were completely altruistic, I'm not that blinkered, but Helen not being made a complete fool of was definitely uppermost in his mind.

I very much doubt if Paul cares about it anymore, but as someone else just said, even if they are all really good friends now, it will always be in the back of his mind. However, I'd like to think that as he's such a "nice guy" as everyone keeps saying he wouldnt hold a grudge, which is the reason I voted "yes" in the poll!

[Romantic Old Bird]

I used to be really angry about that night, but as it has all sorted itself out now I can live with it.

Aaaah well. Luckily Helen got her own head in order after the argument, remembered how she and Paul had been in their time together, did a little pilgrimage to the den
http://bigbrother.digitalspy.co.uk/images/2-863.jpg

cheered up, and then gave us a couple of gems before they all settled down at the end of this momentous night.

1. To Brian, who was very boisterously and intimately trying to playfight with her:

Stop it Brian, you don't do it for me like Paul does. When he touches me my whole body goes Ch-Ching!!!

2. To Brian again a couple of minutes later about the way she felt with Paul:

Oh, but Brian, there was so much stuff, it was FANTASTIC! (I can't describe the sense of sheer wonder and feeling she put into saying FANTASTIC. I just hope Paul got a chance to see that bit.)

I knew it would be alright then.

Helen was never swayed by the others feelings. She knew how she felt and she knew her instincts were not not wrong.

Unlike Bonzo and Ig, I never doubted how Paul would behave when they were reunited. I had heated discussions at work at the time with all the young nurses who believed the hype about him. They have had to apologise, always rewarding I find!

I actually wrote an email (with the full approval of OH!!!) to the sainted Dermot during Josh's week as I was concerned that Paul was being unfairly demonised by BBLB. My exact words (sadly, I save all this stuff) to him were:

"You are all so wrong. I think Paul will be there to greet her, I think he will protect her and cherish her. He is being a gentleman to the best of his ability given the incredibly difficult circumstances he finds himself in. The looks he gives Helen are looks of love.

He will be evicted this week. It doesn't need any help from you or Josh to acheive this, as Helen offers the only potential challenge to Brian. Leave poor old Paul alone, and think of his family. He has to come out of the house, and he certainly has done nothing to deserve a bad reception on the outside. You are being very unkind.

Paul and Helen will be together after Big Brother ends. You can count on it."


I don't suppose he read it, but it made me feel better at the time. The rest is history of course.

:love: :love: :love: :love:

[Ig]

Beautifully put as always, ROB!! :thumbs:

[Mairi]

I felt exactly the same way, ROB. I KNEW they'd always be together come hell or high water but I could never have expressed it so beautifully.

:paul: :helen: :love:

[BusyBee]

You are so right ROB. There was never any doubt about Paul and Helen making it. I am another who had heated arguments at work. My 30 year old surrogate sons in the rooms next to mine both had it in for Paul and said the was only after one thing and didnt care for Helen. My response to that was "You only have to see how he looks at her - if that's not love then I dont know what is". Brian was very drunk and again egged on by the 'lovely' Elizabeth who had it in for Paul and Helen. Dont forget Brian had been used as a sounding board by the pair of them and had properly had enough and the drink just brought it out. But he was soon back to his usual caring self listening to Helen go on and on and on. Just like me sorreeee

[bananarama]

No "my friend"! I'll stick to my own "very very dangerous philosophy" if you don't mind, and you can stick to yours.



Quite right. Everyone has the right to make their own mistakes.....

[Ig]

Absolutely! They do! The trick is to give help and advice, and not stand back and watch while someone heads straight for a big black hole .... :hugesmile:

[Oldgit]

Originally posted by discolady
The night of the argument about Paul, when Betty AND Brian were very nasty about Paul and all thier true feelings about him came through, if you watched it on E4 at the end of that night, you will have seen a very nasty side to Brian, concern for Helen, no way, just jealous, thinking they had taken his limelight. :mad:

I agree. However, in the BB2 book, in the "exclusive" interview after the Davina one, and after the cameras had gone off, I think Brian realised he had made a mistake when he outlines the problems he had with Paul in the house, but says that it is all different outside, and he's glad that Helen and Paul were there for each other. As BB2 ended, Brian was pointing frantically off the stage, and I understand from a posting from someone who was there (on the "other" site" some time ago) that he was trying to direct the camera to a certain young couple :paul: :helen: who had their tongues down each others' throats!

I also remember on the final BB2 night, on BBLB, Paul did confront Elizabeth but then accepted her explanation and gave her a hug. So I cannot vote on this one, because I think Paul did make his peace with Brian and Elizabeth so who am I to say what he should have done?

[dizzy bint]

Ig and Bonzo are so right on this one. I totally agree with them.