The Death Penalty

[lily.]

Discuss...

[King Gizzard]

Completely against it in every shape and form. Gives someone an easy way out, you ask the majority of people on life sentances for murder and other serious offences and they would probably commit suicide if they could

Don't get the huge rush for ''omg kill the bastards!!''..I don't get the whole ''eye for an eye'' thing...don't stoop to their level in anyway

[Marc]

Good points Nathan, but you've probably not had it happen to you and you'd think differently had anything if like.. your sibling/cousin/parent was murdered in cold blood.

My outside view on it would be the same as Nathan's however if it affected me like above, then I'd want the person to die.

[King Gizzard]

I think if I was in the position I would still have the same view point. I would want that person to feel they've suffered not just that they're going to die and not have to deal with the guilt for the rest of their lives

[Shaun]

my cousin was murdered and I'm against the death penalty, so the whole "omg if it happened to you x" angle is bollocks.

[Roy Mars III]

Agree with everything that Nathan said. The whole 'eye for an eye' mentality is worrying. Rather have them rot in prison than just kill them and give them the easy way out.

[King Gizzard]

If anything prison conditions should be alot worse and most sentances increased to maximum

If you take away someones life yours should be taken away (not literally, but in the sense of having a life whatsoever)

[MTVN]

Good points Nathan, but you've probably not had it happen to you and you'd think differently had anything if like.. your sibling/cousin/parent was murdered in cold blood.

My outside view on it would be the same as Nathan's however if it affected me like above, then I'd want the person to die.

But that's the thing, I don't think you should judge a suitable punishment based on "that could have been my son/brother/etc." it just means you're being guided by an emotional response and I'd honestly like to think I wouldn't support it still, but obviously it's impossible to know..

Like I said in the other thread, I'm definitely against it, it just reduces you down to the same level of the criminal, I don't see how you can kill someone to try and show that killing is wrong, surely that's a fallacy. The only distinction between the two would be a (in my view) misguided sense of justice, and "right". I think it also doesn't leave any room to try and understand why people carry out their crimes, and doesn't leave any room for rehabilitation, which I know a lot on here won't believe or don't think is possible but I really believe it is. A life sentence is enough punishment in my opinion.

[Marc]

I guess my view isn't universal but it's not as if it's obscure so I'm sure some others would think the same.

[Jesus.]

But that's the thing, I don't think you should judge a suitable punishment based on "that could have been my son/brother/etc." it just means you're being guided by an emotional response and I'd honestly like to think I wouldn't support it still, but obviously it's impossible to know..

Like I said in the other thread, I'm definitely against it, it just reduces you down to the same level of the criminal, I don't see how you can kill someone to try and show that killing is wrong, surely that's a fallacy. The only distinction between the two would be a (in my view) misguided sense of justice, and "right". I think it also doesn't leave any room to try and understand why people carry out their crimes, and doesn't leave any room for rehabilitation, which I know a lot on here won't believe or don't think is possible but I really believe it is. A life sentence is enough punishment in my opinion.

Excellent post.

[CharlieO]

I am kind of against it. But it does work. Singapore - 2nd lowest crime rate in the world because they have the death penalty.

[Jesus.]

I am kind of against it. But it does work. Singapore - 2nd lowest crime rate in the world because they have the death penalty.

America - the states with the death penalties have some of the highest crime rates. It's a bit of a myth that it acts as a deterrent.

[lostalex]

If we knew for sure that murderers and child molesters were guilty, i have no problem with the death penalty.

If all of them are guilty of what they are accussed of i have no problem with the death penalty.

But many cases, you cannot be sure they are guilty, so i am against it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its a good thing and saves money. Life is cheap and easily created as is death. Dont let years of religious lies make us think that life is this precious gift bollocks.

[Niamh.]

If we knew for sure that murderers and child molesters were guilty, i have no problem with the death penalty.

If all of them are guilty of what they are accussed of i have no problem with the death penalty.

But many cases, you cannot be sure they are guilty, so i am against it.

Yeah, I agree with this.

[Niamh.]

Its a good thing and saves money. Life is cheap and easily created as is death. Dont let years of religious lies make us think that life is this precious gift bollocks.

You don't need to be religious to think life is a precious gift.

[Samuel.]

I'm against it, but not because I'd rather see a criminal rot in prison, or because it's an easy way out for them. But because I don't think it's acceptable to be killing anyone for any reason, unless...

Probably alone in thinking this, but I think someone who receives a life sentence in prison, should have the choice of death instead. Having them sit in a prison cell for 20 odd years isn't useful to anyone, unless in the unlikely scenario that they come out of it the other side as a changed person who'll be a benefit to society. Just let them die if they want to.

Though I also agree with rehabilitation. And I guess if someone's committed a crime that warrants a life sentence, they're not going to be 100% stable mentally, thus shouldn't be making a life or death decision. So basically, my idea is flawed :laugh:

[Jesus.]

Its a good thing and saves money. Life is cheap and easily created as is death. Dont let years of religious lies make us think that life is this precious gift bollocks.

I'm an anti-theist, but I don't believe in the death penalty.

[nicole_burks]

I don't necessarily disagree with it. I believe it is useful in some cases, but not all.


I just looked up if my state does the death penalty, and they do.

Lethal injection is the sole method. (On October 5, 2001, the Georgia Supreme Court held that the electric chair was cruel and unusual punishment and struck down the state's use of the method)
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

[Z]

Tough question. My main opposition to it is that for every time they get it right (and by that I mean condemn someone who is guilty) there are countless cases of them getting it wrong... and that is truly horrible, to think that someone who didn't even commit the crime has been killed in response to said crime. I don't know. I think with some crimes, rehab is possible, but those are crimes that don't involve the plotting and execution of someone's death. When it comes to people who have done that, I think they're beyond redemption.

To actually kill another human being on purpose is the worst kind of crime. Among other things, it suggests that the murderer doesn't value life, they think whoever they killed is beneath them in some way, and they don't therefore value life like the rest of society does. I don't want to say I'm for capital punishment, because of my hesistance when it comes to whether or not somebody committed a crime... but I agree with the concept.

[Vicky.]

If anything prison conditions should be alot worse and most sentances increased to maximum

This^

Prison as it is now, is a pretty easy ride. I know when people say they get 5 course meals and playstation 3s etc its a load of bollocks...but many in prison have a better life than they had on the outside...how is that punishment?

I know this because a guy I used to go to school with WANTS to be in prison. Everytime he gets released he does stupid things to get back in again...like fake robbing the post office in his hometown and stuff. He doesnt WANT to get away with it, he wants to be caught, and its pathetic. That said, he has been homeless the majority of his life since his mother ****ed off abroad and left him when he was 17...when he originally turned to crime. I used to think he was just an idiot (he probably is tbh) but a few years back during one of his short stints out of jail I was talking to him properly and now I feel sorry for him. He has made mates in there, while he has no mates outside, he gets fed, he gets to socialize etc etc.

This is NOT what we want for criminals. Yeah this lad I know is a petty criminal, not a murderer or whatever (for the minute anyway D: )and I would like to think the prisons murderers/pedos etc get sent to are worse conditions...but it should be pretty much living hell being in jail. Living on slops and that kinda thing.

Our jails are a holiday camp compared to how it is being in prison in other countries. And dont give me the human rights crap...or 'we are advanced enough to not act like barbarians' because thats the sort of attitude thats got us into this mess in the first place :bored:

(But I do not agree wit the death penalty. Mistakes can be, and are made. And theres no going back.)

[Jack_]

I oppose it completely. It's a disgusting, hypocritical, inhumane attempt at 'justice' which has so many flaws that I see no positive reasoning as to its implementation.

First and foremost, it's a complete cop-out of a punishment for the criminal. Why on earth would anyone want someone's suffering to be stopped after a few minutes, when there's the option of having them suffer their entire lives? And as Nathan said most criminals on life sentences would choose suicide over actually fulfilling their sentence anyway, I know I would.

Not only that but the message it sends out is not only full of hypocrisy, but it's essentially saying that it's perfectly acceptable to murder, which it isn't. The whole concept of it just panders to the blood thirsty morons who scream and wail 'kill the evil twat!!!' every time a case is reported. And of course, there's occasions where people have been innocently executed, which is unforgivable if you ask me.

If it were down to me I'd have prisons made tougher and sentences extended, they're not perfect at the moment but they're a much better place to send criminals for real justice than executing them on the spot. I find the whole idea and the fact that some people are so desperate for others to be killed extremely disturbing.

[MTVN]

I dunno about the whole prisons are too soft thing, from a personal perspective I think that even if I had loads of luxuries I would still find it absolute hell to spend years of my life in a cell, I don't think that a few comforts would make up for me having to sacrifice my freedom and just be so.. restricted and live in a tiny confined space or area, I think it'd be a miserable existence :/

[Roy Mars III]

I don't necessarily disagree with it. I believe it is useful in some cases, but not all.


I just looked up if my state does the death penalty, and they do.


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

Most states only use lethal ejection. And the states who do still have the electric chair, let the prisoner chose between lethal enjection and the chair. And in Utah you can still be killed by a firing squad if you want.

[nicole_burks]

Most states only use lethal ejection. And the states who do still have the electric chair, let the prisoner chose between lethal enjection and the chair. And in Utah you can still be killed by a firing squad if you want.
New Hampshire allows hanging New Hampshire- Authorizes hanging only if lethal injection cannot be given.

[MTVN]

I remember reading about someone executed by firing quad in the States not all that long ago, I think it was the first one in ages or something like that

[Roy Mars III]

Yeah that was in Utah. The guy chose it, he wanted to go out with a bang.

[MTVN]

Yeah that was in Utah. The guy chose it, he wanted to go out with a bang.

:joker::joker:

[lostalex]

I remember reading about someone executed by firing quad in the States not all that long ago, I think it was the first one in ages or something like that

if i recall yu are tsalking about a man that REQUESTED to be killed by fireing squad, because he found a loophole in the law that gave him the right to choose how he died. right?

so he wanted to be killed by firing squad, are you saying he shouldn't have been given the freedom to choose how he died?

he was certainly offered more humane ways to die.

[Z]

I oppose it completely. It's a disgusting, hypocritical, inhumane attempt at 'justice' which has so many flaws that I see no positive reasoning as to its implementation.

First and foremost, it's a complete cop-out of a punishment for the criminal. Why on earth would anyone want someone's suffering to be stopped after a few minutes, when there's the option of having them suffer their entire lives? And as Nathan said most criminals on life sentences would choose suicide over actually fulfilling their sentence anyway, I know I would.

Not only that but the message it sends out is not only full of hypocrisy, but it's essentially saying that it's perfectly acceptable to murder, which it isn't. The whole concept of it just panders to the blood thirsty morons who scream and wail 'kill the evil twat!!!' every time a case is reported. And of course, there's occasions where people have been innocently executed, which is unforgivable if you ask me.

If it were down to me I'd have prisons made tougher and sentences extended, they're not perfect at the moment but they're a much better place to send criminals for real justice than executing them on the spot. I find the whole idea and the fact that some people are so desperate for others to be killed extremely disturbing.

But the ENTIRE concept of justice is guided by human emotions. Deciding to just lock someone away in a cell to prolong their suffering is JUST as irrational as ending their life because it's a decision made by other people because of something one or more persons has done to another person or persons. People are the be all and end all of justice. The difference between capital punishment and long term jail sentences is that you can slightly undo a jail sentence... but that person has still lost a chunk of their life to not being free.

[MTVN]

if i recall yu are tsalking about a man that REQUESTED to be killed by fireing squad, because he found a loophole in the law that gave him the right to choose how he died. right?

so he wanted to be killed by firing squad, are you saying he shouldn't have been given the freedom to choose how he died?

No, what part of my post gave you that idea?

[lostalex]

No, what part of my post gave you that idea?

your post made it sound like the USA is barbaric for using a firing squad to carry out the death penalty, when in fact they were just carrying out the man's wishes.

[Jack_]

But the ENTIRE concept of justice is guided by human emotions. Deciding to just lock someone away in a cell to prolong their suffering is JUST as irrational as ending their life because it's a decision made by other people because of something one or more persons has done to another person or persons. People are the be all and end all of justice. The difference between capital punishment and long term jail sentences is that you can slightly undo a jail sentence... but that person has still lost a chunk of their life to not being free.

But the concept of killing someone in itself is just, well...morally wrong. I understand where you're coming from and I guess it's a valid point I hadn't thought about, and whilst I agree that most, if not all things in life are socially constructed concepts, I still find it difficult to comprehend how the decision to take someone else's life can be anything other than wrong, because no one should have that right. So on that basis, the death penalty is totally hypocritical and of course wrong.

[MTVN]

your post made it sound like the USA is barbaric for using a firing squad to carry out the death penalty, when in fact they were just carrying out the man's wishes.

Not at all, I just stated that I read about a firing squad case not long ago which was the first one in ages, because the previous posts were discussing it. I didn't say anything about it being barbaric.

[Kazanne]

I would have no hesitation with certain cold bloodied and calculated murderers,especially those that involve torture or children,it may be an easy way out but it rids us of the scum of the earth,and yes i have known a couple of people who have been killed in my family,so I guess i might be biased.

[Z]

But the concept of killing someone in itself is just, well...morally wrong. I understand where you're coming from and I guess it's a valid point I hadn't thought about, and whilst I agree that most, if not all things in life are socially constructed concepts, I still find it difficult to comprehend how the decision to take someone else's life can be anything other than wrong, because no one should have that right. So on that basis, the death penalty is totally hypocritical and of course wrong.

I mean I don't disagree with your post, I just thought it might be interesting to put that particular spin on things. I'm not wholly sure where I stand on the issue. I'm not sure it's possible for me to have a view that applies to every individual case, I think my views depend entirely on each situation, the certainty behind the conviction, the nature of the crime etc... I'm pretty sure my views on one old man murdering another in cold blood because he'd been his life long enemy for decades and the victim had done plenty to ruin the offender's life... would be in stark contrast to a man who raped and murdered a child for his own pleasure. The judgment of crime is ruled by emotion and it takes a very emotionally detached person to be able to judge such a thing, and it's not something I could ever do.

[Harry!]

Ever since the death of Gaddafi my opinions of the death penalty had changed. For his case specifically he should have been trialled and jailed for the rest of his life. What happened to him was wrong.

More in general the death penalty is wrong because the criminals would "Die Happy" and would think whatever they did was right at the very last point of death.

Also for some criminals the death penalty would seem as a "Cop-Out" for the criminals and look like an easy option. Yes, of course they would physically not exist after death but their morals will stay for far longer. At least life in prison will allow a possible chance to dwell on the crimes and possibly come out a better person.

[lostalex]

What happened to Ghadaffi was wrong?? REALLY? If any one desrerved to be killed by a mob, i think he did. I don't understand how you could see anything wrong with that. Those were the people kept under his iron fist for 30 years, and HE'S the one you feel sorry for?? REALLY?

We have a very different world view my friend. VERY DIFFERENT.

[Benjamin]

The main reason I do not agree with the death penalty is; what if the person sentenced to death was innocent and had to lose their life over something they didn't do?

[lostalex]

The main reason I do not agree with the death penalty is; what if the person sentenced to death was innocent and had to lose their life over something they didn't do?

i Made that point like 40 mins ago, but i still agree...

[Harry!]

What happened to Ghadaffi was wrong?? REALLY? If any one desrerved to be killed by a mob, i think he did. I don't understand how you could see anything wrong with that. Those were the people kept under his iron fist for 30 years, and HE'S the one you see something wrong about dying that way?? REALLY?

We have a very different world view my friend. VERY DIFFERENT.

Morally and ethically wrong but socially correct. I know he was a bad man but I think just locking him up in a cell and just left there to stave would have been better.

[Harry!]

Corporal punishment is better then capital punishment.

[lostalex]

Corporal punishment is better then capital punishment.

You arn't Libyan, and you don't know what it's like to be held captive by a dictator for 30 years, so i don't think it's yur place to judge those Libyan people who killed him.

[arista]

Discuss...


Will Only Return in England
when we enter World War 3.

[Harry!]

You arn't Libyan, and you don't know what it's like to be held captive by a dictator for 30 years, so i don't think it's yur place to judge those Libyan people who killed him.

I was NOT judging the Libyan people. Socially they had a right to oust the dictator (and of course do whatever they wanted to him). I am a believer of dying with dignity and that was not dying with dignity. Of course since he was never trailed for his crimes against the Libyan people we will never know his "forged" opinions.

I am not ignorant and I do know what happened in Libya. And of course that was very wrong.

[Doogle]

Well I haven't got a strong opinion on it, seeing as I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject. But I was wondering, people always say "what if an innocent person is killed?". Well innocent people end up in jail too and I'm not saying that's the equivalent but if people want prisons to be tougher on prisoners and their prison sentences, why are people so okay with that compared to the death sentence? Baring in mind people also say that the prisons could be more torture than getting the easier way out with death.

And I know death would affect people who knew them, but in many ways so would being in prison for such a long amount of time.

[lostalex]

I was NOT judging the Libyan people. Socially they had a right to oust the dictator (and of course do whatever they wanted to him). I am a believer of dying with dignity and that was not dying with dignity. Of course since he was never trailed for his crimes against the Libyan people we will never know his "forged" opinions.

I am not ignorant and I do know what happened in Libya. And of course that was very wrong.

well obviously the Libyan people disagree with you that HE deserved to die "with dignity" and personally, i don't blame them at all.

That CARTOON of a man lost all DIGNITY a long long time ago.

[Jack_]

Have to be honest, there was something very, I don't know...sadistic about splashing photos of a dead man over national newspapers and everybody cheering. It's still someone's death...it's not sad at all with regards to him, but, it doesn't feel morally right to be overly joyous at someone's death.

[lostalex]

Have to be honest, there was something very, I don't know...sadistic about splashing photos of a dead man over national newspapers and everybody cheering. It's still someone's death...it's not sad at all with regards to him, but, it doesn't feel morally right to be overly joyous at someone's death.

again, yu havn't lived under a dictator, so wtf do you know about it??? nothing. you know NOTHING about it.

[Patrick]

No, but prisons need to be made tougher.

I think for crimes such as like the whole James Bulger thing or just pathetic and sick murders that really are disgusting, then the person should suffer ALOT more than someone who's in Jail for credit card fraud or something.

I think they should build an underground jail. Have different cells made out of thick bricks, and leave the person in their to rot - feeding them every so often.
None of this 'let them out for fresh air' or '3 meals a day' or 'lounge about on the playstation with the other inmates' bollocks.

Don't even put a toilet in the cell, just let them stay there until they eventually die.

[Patrick]

Have to be honest, there was something very, I don't know...sadistic about splashing photos of a dead man over national newspapers and everybody cheering. It's still someone's death...it's not sad at all with regards to him, but, it doesn't feel morally right to be overly joyous at someone's death.

Agree, it was ******ing vile.
Even when Americans begun chanting and cheering when Osama was killed, I know he was a ***** and he 'ruined their lives' and such and they wanted him dead for years, but the way they went about acting like it was some fantastic party outside the white house was horrible.

At the end of the day, it's a human life and a death as you said.
I'm not saying they didn't have a right to be happy and over the moon about it, I mean the bloke deserved it completely. But they just made themselves look like tools chanting 'USA USA!' because a guy had been shot.

[MTVN]

well obviously the Libyan people disagree with you that HE deserved to die "with dignity" and personally, i don't blame them at all.

That CARTOON of a man lost all DIGNITY a long long time ago.

Something tells me you didn't follow the Libyan conflict very closely, the whole thing was disgusting, and both sides were guilty of numerous atrocities. Did you realise he was sodomised with a knife during his death for instance?

[lostalex]

Something tells me you didn't follow the Libyan conflict very closely, the whole thing wad disgusting, and both sides were guilty of numerous atrocities. Did you realise he was sodomised with a knife during his death for instance?

compared to what? al queada has put Americans on spikes from the same orifice, so please don't think yu are shocking me. That's something they do over in that part of the world.

The native americans used to cut the dead's scalps off, so what?

[MTVN]

compared to what? al queada has put Americans on spikes from the same orifice, so please don't think yu are shocking me.

That's got ****** all to do with Gaddafi's death.

[lostalex]

i still don't understand what point yu are making. The Man was a cartoon that abused and dominated generations of his own people, however they wanted to kill him is none of my concern, and it's none of yur concern eigther.

I'm pretty sure the French did some nasty stuff in their revolution too....

[MTVN]

i still don't understand what point yu are making. The Man was a cartoon that abused and dominated generations of his own people, however they wanted to kill him is none of my concern, and it's none of yur concern eigther.

I'm pretty sure the French did some nasty stuff in their revolution too....

My point is that the manner in which he killed was disgusting, as was the subsequent reaction in a lot of the Western media and the ignoring of Rebel atrocities

[Glenn.]

I don't agree with the Death Sentence at all but I do agree with what other people have said about prison life.

It needs to be made tougher. Your serving time for a crime, your not on holiday.

[lostalex]

My point is that the manner in which he killed was disgusting, as was the subsequent reaction in a lot of the Western media and the ignoring of Rebel atrocities

i agree it was disgusting, but i don't think it was wrong.

[Glenn.]

Agree, it was ******ing vile.
Even when Americans begun chanting and cheering when Osama was killed, I know he was a ***** and he 'ruined their lives' and such and they wanted him dead for years, but the way they went about acting like it was some fantastic party outside the white house was horrible.

At the end of the day, it's a human life and a death as you said.
I'm not saying they didn't have a right to be happy and over the moon about it, I mean the bloke deserved it completely. But they just made themselves look like tools chanting 'USA USA!' because a guy had been shot.

I agree with this. Watching them on the news that day made me feel a little sick.

There was no need for it at all.

[lostalex]

and how many American's did you see burning any flags? ZERO. How many American's on that day did you hear chanting "Deatth to.." any country?? ZERO.

Did you see any American's that day hating anyone? or advocating violence? none, ZERO.

All you saw was American's celebrating not having to be AFRAID anymore.

That day showed the difference between Americans and the Arab World., because we came out and brought peace and happiness, NO violence, NO hate, no burning anyone else's flags, or chanting "death to..." we came out and celebrated being free from BIN LADENS TERROR.

shame on us i guess. shame on us.

[Glenn.]

You brought peace and happiness out through violence.

[lostalex]

You brought peace and happiness out through violence.

Yup, that's right, just like when we defeated Hitler, and Imperial Japan.

We Won., i know people like you don't like to see America Win! Sucks for you! ;)

[MTVN]

Alright I think we should stick to the topic, lets not have another decent thread where there's actually been some good discussion get derailed

[lostalex]

srly Glenn, listen to MTVN plzzz.

[InOne]

It doesn't work. It only makes other people feel better about themselves. It doesn't help society as a whole.

[Glenn.]

:joker:

[Jack_]

again, yu havn't lived under a dictator, so wtf do you know about it??? nothing. you know NOTHING about it.

1) I never claimed I had
2) I'm still of the opinion that there is something slightly strange about cheering at the death of someone, regardless of what they did in their life
3) Will you ever calm down?

Agree, it was ******ing vile.
Even when Americans begun chanting and cheering when Osama was killed, I know he was a ***** and he 'ruined their lives' and such and they wanted him dead for years, but the way they went about acting like it was some fantastic party outside the white house was horrible.

At the end of the day, it's a human life and a death as you said.
I'm not saying they didn't have a right to be happy and over the moon about it, I mean the bloke deserved it completely. But they just made themselves look like tools chanting 'USA USA!' because a guy had been shot.

Yeah I agree, there's a whole odd feeling to it if you ask me. I'm not saying we should all mourn his death, but cheering? I don't know.

[lostalex]

this silly idea of appeasement you still have, it would make Churchill turn in his grave.

[Glenn.]

Doesn't cheering someone's death make you as bad as the extremists?

[lostalex]

Doesn't cheering someone's death make you as bad as the extremists?

No. I can say quite confidently that WE are NOT as bad as THEM. I say that with ALL ABSOLUTION.

I'm absolutely sure of it.

[Roy Mars III]

I think people took the 'parties' too seriously. Most of them were just drunk college people who will basically find any excuse to party. They weren't people who were going to work at the office the next day. Most of them were just drunk 20 year olds.

[lostalex]

Oh look a pretty little yellow card at the bottom of my post, so am i meant to delete my post or what? i'm still not understanding what it means...is someone going to explain it to me?

[MTVN]

Oh look a pretty little yellow card at the bottom of my post, so am i meant to delete my post or what? i'm still not understanding what it means...is someone going to explain it to me?

It means it's a warning to stop the bollocks and stick to the topic, like I said a few posts up

[lostalex]

It means it's a warning to stop the bollocks and stick to the topic, like I said a few posts up

opps, my bad, sometimes it's hard to tell when yur speaking as a mod, and when yur being a normal human being. forgive me for not being able to tell the difference.

did i actually break any rules though? cause i think i was kinda on topic for the conversation that was going on... was i actually breaking any rules? cause i'm a bit confused on that....

[MTVN]

opps, my bad, sometimes it's hard to tell when yur speaking as a mod, and when yur being a normal human being. forgive me for not being able to tell the difference.

did i actually break any rules though? cause i think i was kinda on topic for the conversation that was going on... was i actually breaking any rules? cause i'm a bit confused on that....

Sorry I'll use this little guy in future http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-char022.gif

And Churchill and appeasement, or comparing Americans to Arabs doesn't have anything to do with the death penalty, you can go bump the Bin Laden thread or start a new one if you want to talk about that

[lostalex]

I still don't understand, but i know when someone is out for blood, so i'll just sign off for the day. peace and love! lol