1.4 billion in foreign aid to India

[waterhog]

India dose not need our 1.4 billion charity

are we insulted that India don't want our pizza hut,
this delivery is refused, its not help but a peanut.
extreme poverty is rampant and chief,
but pleased be insured to go up is the total in sports relief.
the UK take our defence very seriously,
and for a 3rd world country to spend more, leaves me dolorously.
like Africa, India is the same,
taking our charity is playing the game.
the Indian government don't need to help there nation,
because others will give, even if up or down is inflation.
until we have no homeless or our HHS is not in deficit,
then giving any foreign aid will always leave me split.

(i say get our own ship in order first before we sink - someone has got to disagree with me on this one ?)

[_Seth]

No-one cares.

[Jesus.]

India dose not need our 1.4 billion charity

are we insulted that India don't want our pizza hut,
this delivery is refused, its not help but a peanut.
extreme poverty is rampant and chief,
but pleased be insured to go up is the total in sports relief.
the UK take our defence very seriously,
and for a 3rd world country to spend more, leaves me dolorously.
like Africa, India is the same,
taking our charity is playing the game.
the Indian government don't need to help there nation,
because others will give, even if up or down is inflation.
until we have no homeless or our HHS is not in deficit,
then giving any foreign aid will always leave me split.

(i say get our own ship in order first before we sink - someone has got to disagree with me on this one ?)

That's just ****ing ignorant.

We raped India and Africa in times gone by for their resources, and made slaves of their peoples.

We all share the same planet. What kind of world is it that unless people live on the plot of earth then they can go **** themselves?

[Kizzy]

humanitarian aid is a touchy subject with the state of the world at the moment. The UN have agreed to aid developing countries as part of the millenium development partnership to end world poverty, so its not just us paying and its not just india recieving. The size of the payment is dependant on GDP, its a bit confusing.

[fruit_cake]

That's just ****ing ignorant.

We raped India and Africa in times gone by for their resources, and made slaves of their peoples.

We all share the same planet. What kind of world is it that unless people live on the plot of earth then they can go **** themselves?

With respect Mr Christ, I don't remember raping India or Africa. I didn't make a slave of their peoples either.

I do agree with the second bit though. It seems to me that private property really needs to be redistributed proportionately, I find it profoundly disturbing that some people can own 200000 homes and meanwhile other people live in the streets. I'm not really sure what to do about it though.

[Kizzy]

Its not a question of haves and have nots, or giving for the sins of our forefathers, its just maintaining good relations with the world. Keeping trade and communication with developing countries is mutually beneficial.

[Jesus.]

With respect Mr Christ, I don't remember raping India or Africa. I didn't make a slave of their peoples either.

I do agree with the second bit though. It seems to me that private property really needs to be redistributed proportionately, I find it profoundly disturbing that some people can own 200000 homes and meanwhile other people live in the streets. I'm not really sure what to do about it though.

We have a responsibility to others in the world, and historically we have been an appalling empire. We have to compensate for that. I also wasn't around when we were enslaving people, but I understand the historical context behind it. We have done a lot of bad things in India as a nation, and helping them out now is the least we can do.

Nationality is purely an accident of birth, and we should define our species by the way we treat those that have the least amongst us.

[Livia]

While we were "raping" these countries, we were also building an infrastructure and giving them a system of government they still use today. They have also had the benefit of being able to claim a British passports for generations. How long do we, as a nation, have to pay for something that happened lifetimes ago? I didn't receive a penny piece from the Raj. The Romans raped Great Britain for centuries. I look forward to receiving some cash from Italy in the near future, or maybe that's past the cut-off point for getting some free cash? The Vikings then? Or maybe the Normans?

We are borrowing money to hand to India while there are more millionaires in Mumbai than there are in Texas. Let them feed their own starving and allow us to look after our own people.

[arista]

India can Fund their own Poor.


We Must stop funding that Rich Nation.

Fact

[Jesus.]

While we were "raping" these countries, we were also building an infrastructure and giving them a system of government they still use today. They have also had the benefit of being able to claim a British passports for generations. How long do we, as a nation, have to pay for something that happened lifetimes ago? I didn't receive a penny piece from the Raj. The Romans raped Great Britain for centuries. I look forward to receiving some cash from Italy in the near future, or maybe that's past the cut-off point for getting some free cash? The Vikings then? Or maybe the Normans?

We are borrowing money to hand to India while there are more millionaires in Mumbai than there are in Texas. Let them feed their own starving and allow us to look after our own people.

Our appalling treatment of India is still very recent, and all that infrastructure we set up? That was for our benefit, not theirs.

Their own billionaires should help more, but they aren't, so I'm not comfortable standing by and just being thankful it's not on my doorstep. Even if a British person had not set foot on a specific part of the globe, I'd still be in favour of helping, but where we have left our ****ty footprint? Then we need to help clear up the mess.

[Kizzy]

its not down to our colonial past, try to look at the bigger picture... the UNITED Nations, the WORLD Health Organisation. Yes some governments are corrupt...but should the rest of the world sit back and see millions die?

[Jesus.]

its not down to our colonial past, try to look at the bigger picture... the UNITED Nations, the WORLD Health Organisation. Yes some governments are corrupt...but should the rest of the world sit back and see millions die?

I agree. I was just making the point that we are more than innocent bystanders in this issue.

[MTVN]

I don't really get the "sort our own country out first" argument, it's like refusing to help somebody who's dying in the street because you're more concerned about a small cut on your knee

[Livia]

Our appalling treatment of India is still very recent, and all that infrastructure we set up? That was for our benefit, not theirs.

Their own billionaires should help more, but they aren't, so I'm not comfortable standing by and just being thankful it's not on my doorstep. Even if a British person had not set foot on a specific part of the globe, I'd still be in favour of helping, but where we have left our ****ty footprint? Then we need to help clear up the mess.

If you feel so strongly, feel free to donate to Oxfam - a good British institution.

How come we're the only country who has to continue to lash ourself about stuff that happened so long ago?

If India was starving, if there weren't so many multi-millionaires and billionaires there, if their economy wasn't MASSIVE, then I'd probably agree something has to be done. However, when they have a space programme and are still holding out their hand to the UK and holding us responsible for their poor, then something is wrong with them. The real trouble is that the class system in India is twenty times worse than the good-old British class system and the high-caste Indians have no interest in their own poor people.

[MTVN]

If you feel so strongly, feel free to donate to Oxfam - a good British institution.

How come we're the only country who has to continue to lash ourself about stuff that happened so long ago?

If India was starving, if there weren't so many multi-millionaires and billionaires there, if their economy wasn't MASSIVE, then I'd probably agree something has to be done. However, when they have a space programme and are still holding out their hand to the UK and holding us responsible for their poo, then something is wrong with them. The real trouble is that the class system in India is twenty times worse than the good-old british class system and the high-caste Indians have no interest in their own poor people.

Yeah you do have a point, there's not much point chucking money away if it isn't being put to good use, the problems are too ingrained for them to be solved by a bit of foreign aid from the UK

[Livia]

I don't really get the "sort our own country out first" argument, it's like refusing to help somebody who's dying in the street because you're more concerned about a small cut on your knee

Don't you think India must bear some responsibility for itself? Doesn't it disgust you that we are borrowing money to give to India because we are blackmailed into feeling guilty for their poor, when their own rich people do nothing to help solve their own problem?

[Livia]

Yeah you do have a point, there's not much point chucking money away if it isn't being put to good use, the problems are too ingrained for them to be solved by a bit of foreign aid from the UK

Exactly. I'm all for helping people. I donate myself when there's a crisis, but India's taking the p*ss. The government gives us all this spin about aiding India and therefore benefiting from trade agreements. Then India spends billions of pounds on fighter jets - not from us, but from France who give them virtually nothing in aid.

[Kizzy]

France have been members of the United Nations since its founding, they contribute along with every other nation within it.

[Kazanne]

While we were "raping" these countries, we were also building an infrastructure and giving them a system of government they still use today. They have also had the benefit of being able to claim a British passports for generations. How long do we, as a nation, have to pay for something that happened lifetimes ago? I didn't receive a penny piece from the Raj. The Romans raped Great Britain for centuries. I look forward to receiving some cash from Italy in the near future, or maybe that's past the cut-off point for getting some free cash? The Vikings then? Or maybe the Normans?

We are borrowing money to hand to India while there are more millionaires in Mumbai than there are in Texas. Let them feed their own starving and allow us to look after our own people.

THIS^ well said Livia

[Marc]

:suspect:

[Livia]

France have been members of the United Nations since its founding, they contribute along with every other nation within it.

Yes, they give India less than 6% of what the UK donates. And in any case, this discussion isn't about the UN, of which India is also a member.

[Jesus.]

If you feel so strongly, feel free to donate to Oxfam - a good British institution.

How come we're the only country who has to continue to lash ourself about stuff that happened so long ago?

If India was starving, if there weren't so many multi-millionaires and billionaires there, if their economy wasn't MASSIVE, then I'd probably agree something has to be done. However, when they have a space programme and are still holding out their hand to the UK and holding us responsible for their poor, then something is wrong with them. The real trouble is that the class system in India is twenty times worse than the good-old British class system and the high-caste Indians have no interest in their own poor people.

I actually give both my time and money to St. Basils and Shelter homeless organisations.

I feel we have a responsibility because of our colonial past, but that isn't my prime reason for believing we should help.

As I've already stated, we should be judged by how we treat those that have the least. I'm aware that India has a space program, but they aren't the only hypocrites in world politics. Why do we have science departments when we also have debt and deficits?

Why is Osbourne looking to ease the burden on our own millionaires in our country by looking to cut our top tax bracket, when we have homelessness and poverty?

[Harry!]

A coherent debate in a Joe poem thread, well I never...

[Kizzy]

I feel it has everything to do with the UN we are unified to aid each, other I have no idea on how the donations are shared. I also agree with jesus, we too have many extremely wealthy bankers and businessmen. Some of whom have transferred their companies to India to save money....

[Livia]

I actually give both my time and money to St. Basils and Shelter homeless organisations.

I feel we have a responsibility because of our colonial past, but that isn't my prime reason for believing we should help.

As I've already stated, we should be judged by how we treat those that have the least. I'm aware that India has a space program, but they aren't the only hypocrites in world politics. Why do we have science departments when we also have debt and deficits?

Why is Osbourne looking to ease the burden on our own millionaires in our country by looking to cut our top tax bracket, when we have homelessness and poverty?

I don't think you can equate the poor in India with our own poor. Having been to India a couple of times and seen the squalor for myself, and also seen the opulent, sumputous comfort of some of the more well-off, not the actual wealthy, I think trying to equate our own situation with theirs is not an argument that has legs.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help in a crisis, I know that a lot of people, myself included, donate in a crisis - famine, drought, earthquake etc. - but the ongoing desperate poverty of its own people is something India must try to tackle itself now that its financial position has changed.

[Livia]

I feel it has everything to do with the UN we are unified to aid each, other I have no idea on how the donations are shared. I also agree with jesus, we too have many extremely wealthy bankers and businessmen. Some of whom have transferred their companies to India to save money....

Like I said, the original discussion wasn't about the UN, neither is it about wealthy bankers in this country. It's about the amount of money the UK hands to India every year, and the fact that we are giving them money we have borrowed, and are paying a staggering amount of interest on.

[Kizzy]

Well i made it about the UN, as it was relevant to the discussion, Britain is not alone in donating aid to developing countries, especially if we free trade with said country. and i raised the topic of wealth as it had been commented on previously.

[Jesus.]

I don't think you can equate the poor in India with our own poor. Having been to India a couple of times and seen the squalor for myself, and also seen the opulent, sumputous comfort of some of the more well-off, not the actual wealthy, I think trying to equate our own situation with theirs is not an argument that has legs.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help in a crisis, I know that a lot of people, myself included, donate in a crisis - famine, drought, earthquake etc. - but the ongoing desperate poverty of its own people is something India must try to tackle itself now that its financial position has changed.

You do realise that we don't just send them money? We do actually work with them to manage their resources.

It's completely hypocritical to accuse Indian society of not doing enough, whilst our rich just stand by and lobby the government for more favorable treatment.

We don't have people lobbying on behalf of our poor, only our rich.

I know poverty levels are vastly different between the 2 countries, but you do realise that the space program will continue to create jobs in that country through science, engineering, manufacturing etc? It will also aid to the growth of their economy ensuring that they develop even further into a financial superpower.

I don't think any differently about people living in poverty (that I don't know), be they 10 miles away, or 10,000 miles away.

[Shasown]

We pump money into Indias poorer quarter for humanitarian reasons, while India develops nuclear weapons, a space program and bolsters their defence by buying aircraft, weapons and ships from ourselves and other Western countries.

It does make you wonder.

[arista]

India can Fund their own Poor.


We Must stop funding that Rich Nation.

Fact



India Is a Rich Nation.



"Britain WILL keep giving millions in aid to India says Downing Street
, even though the country has said 'We don’t want it – it's peanuts"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097264/Britain-WILL-giving-millions-aid-India-don-t-want-it.html#ixzz1ljpjeVyC

[Livia]

Well i made it about the UN, as it was relevant to the discussion, Britain is not alone in donating aid to developing countries, especially if we free trade with said country. and i raised the topic of wealth as it had been commented on previously.

Maybe you should start a thread about the UN's involvement in ending world poverty. I fail to see the relevance of the UN in this particular discussion, and simply bringing it up in every post doesn't make it more relevant.

[Livia]

You do realise that we don't just send them money? We do actually work with them to manage their resources.

It's completely hypocritical to accuse Indian society of not doing enough, whilst our rich just stand by and lobby the government for more favorable treatment.

We don't have people lobbying on behalf of our poor, only our rich.

I know poverty levels are vastly different between the 2 countries, but you do realise that the space program will continue to create jobs in that country through science, engineering, manufacturing etc? It will also aid to the growth of their economy ensuring that they develop even further into a financial superpower.

I don't think any differently about people living in poverty (that I don't know), be they 10 miles away, or 10,000 miles away.

I don't see how it is hypocritical to accuse Indian society of not doing enough to feed and clothe its own poor, but instead to palm off the problem to the wider world.

Yes, I do realise that their space progam will create jobs through all the stuff you mention, and that it will aid the growth of their economy. And yet we will still be pumping in cash while their economy expands into what you describe as a financial superpower.

And yes, I do realise that we don't just give them the cash but we help them to spend it too. However, do you realise that India government has said they don't really want our money, but we're going to send it anyway? How very magnanimous of us...

[waterhog]

i am thinking i have started a new war with this poem and from now on i am going to zip it and not write any more poems - so sorry everyone but as fatz would say CHILAX lol

[Livia]

i am thinking i have started a new war with this poem and from now on i am going to zip it and not write any more poems - so sorry everyone but as fatz would say CHILAX lol

I thought you might be pleased to see such a lively debate with so many different opinions. No one's getting irate, no one's called anyone else an idiot, no one's flounced off in a huff... it's what debating's all about, surely.

[Kizzy]

why should i start a new thread? you have stated that the wider world are involved....many Nations that are United in the hope of ending world poverty maybe? :)

[Livia]

why should i start a new thread? you have stated that the wider world are involved....many Nations that are United in the hope of ending world poverty maybe? :)

You really do have a hopelessly rosy and optimistic view of the UN. The UN is a toothless waste of cash where everyone pussyfoots around issues so as not to offend anyone else. See how the threat of UN Resolutions have ended war and aggression and stopped genocide? See how the UN Peacekeeping Force have deposed dictators and kept a country ticking over till an election can be held? See how they're first in to a disaster-hit area with aid? No, me neither. They fly celebrities around the world to poverty-stricken areas – first-class of course - so that they can have their photos taken. The fact that the UN is our best effort at bringing everyone together doesn't mean that it's perfect, or even effective.

This discussion is about the UK giving money to a country that is part of the Commonwealth. I still don't know what you UN point is, because you don’t seem to have one relevant to this particular discussion. Which is why I suggested you start another thread. It's up to you... I've done discussing the UN in this thread though.

[Kizzy]

Ok well we will agree to disagree on this point, all im saying is we are not a stand alone country when i comes to aid donations . And the reason the UN highlight the plight of certain areas using celebrities, im assuming is our media would take no interest in these issues if sir bob, lenny henry or cheryl cole were not there to sell papers?
Once it has public attention, groups can put pressure on MPs and in turn the government to do something ...like offering aid, wether the recieving government want it or not.
I have gone as far as i can to show my point has relevance in this thread, i dont need to keep making the same point over and over. If anyone had a better soloution to the problems faced by the wider world, other than 'sort yourselves out' many leaders of the western world would be pleased to hear it?

[Jesus.]

I thought you might be pleased to see such a lively debate with so many different opinions. No one's getting irate, no one's called anyone else an idiot, no one's flounced off in a huff... it's what debating's all about, surely.

I'd even go as far, as calling it a mass debate :joker:

[Livia]

I'd even go as far, as calling it a mass debate :joker:

LOL... excellent. I like that. I'm nicking it.

[Angus]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9061844/India-tells-Britain-We-dont-want-your-aid.html


Ungrateful sods. Just leave them to it, they're a richer country than we are. You don't see the Indian Government sending aid to our inner cities and slums where British money should be better spent.

[waterhog]

angus - is that you mrs brown ?