Teachers consider strike

[Kizzy]

further strikes by the NUT may be called, further to pension concerns but pressure to perform to government directives.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17551617

QUOTE:
Christine Blower, general secretary of the National Union of Teachers (NUT), said teachers felt demoralised by the number of new initiatives directed at schools and by "carping" criticism.

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "They are dispirited and angry by turn - for example being told 'We have tolerated mediocrity for too long' - that does not help the profession.

Teachers are expected to meet unrealistic targets, or risk the sack....

QUOTE:
Teachers at the NUT will hear calls to scrap England's schools inspectorate Ofsted and criticism of the government in England's plans to make it easier for head teachers to remove poor teachers.

The government wants to cut the time it can take to remove an underperforming teacher from a year to one term.

No mention of underfunded undervalued experienced teachers, or the secondary education system that is not working for 1000s of children in deprived areas of the UK.

[Pyramid*]

Unless there is real serious issues - I have no time for strikers.

sorry - there are very few and far between cases that are deserving of it.

Like the truck drivers - I don't see this as a valid reason either.

OMG. I'm realising that I'm seriously becoming a tory through and through. :shocked:

[King Gizzard]

Good on them

[Kizzy]

Unless there is real serious issues - I have no time for strikers.

sorry - there are very few and far between cases that are deserving of it.

Like the truck drivers - I don't see this as a valid reason either.

OMG. I'm realising that I'm seriously becoming a tory through and through. :shocked:

:bawling::bawling::bawling:

[Pyramid*]

Good on them

Yeah good on them. let the parents who work then have to worry and figure out who is going to look after the kiddies when they have to go to work and make an honest buck - or worry about trying to find childminders for the day/days, how to pay for them.

great idea. not.

[Jack_]

Bring it on I say.

At least this one seems to have some sort of decent point behind it.

[Pyramid*]

Plenty of workers feel demoralised, aren't getting enough pay, have too many targets that are unachievable and face the sack.

If everyone in that position went on strike - the UK would be in an even worse mess than it is.

Time people grew backbones. Or made another career choice if they can't hack it.

Things change, times change - move with the times or find another job.

[King Gizzard]

It's the only possible action they can take to get noticed, so good on them. 1 day out of how many days a child will be educated? Improves the education long term as well

Y

[Pyramid*]

It's the only possible action they can take to get noticed, so good on them. 1 day out of how many days a child will be educated? Improves the education long term as well

Y


1 days out out of how many days a chld will be educated? That makes no sense whatsoever - sorry I have no idea what you mean by that.

If you seriously think 1 day strike action is going to make any radical difference - nope, it won't. What difference is one day going to make in reality?

[King Gizzard]

1 days out out of how many days a chld will be educated? That makes no sense whatsoever - sorry I have no idea what you mean by that.

If you seriously think 1 day strike action is going to make any radical difference - nope, it won't. What difference is one day going to make in reality?

Oh ok then..1 day out of the numerous days a child will be educated during it's life. Not that big a deal is it.

It gets their issues in the media. People take notice. Good on them for doing it.

[Pyramid*]

Oh ok then..1 day out of the numerous days a child will be educated during it's life. Not that big a deal is it.

It gets their issues in the media. People take notice. Good on them for doing it.


I didn't make any comparison to the effect on the childrens education for the sake of one day.

I made the point about parent who have to someone fit this into their working day unexpectedly, at great inconvenience & cost to them.

It may make people notice. Not all things notices are for the good though and I don't see this as being good at all.

[Kizzy]

Yeah good on them. let the parents who work then have to worry and figure out who is going to look after the kiddies when they have to go to work and make an honest buck - or worry about trying to find childminders for the day/days, how to pay for them.

great idea. not.

Teachers are parents too, its not a decision taken lightly..Who enjoys striking?....
We complain about lack of decent education, expect GCSE A-C grade passes from innercity schools then make it damn near impossible by removing resources or increasing teachers workload.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teachers-strikes-could-start-as-early-as-summer-term-7624652.html

More work for less pay, and if you dont meet targets you could be sacked in 1 term?....

[Pyramid*]

Teachers are parents too, its not a decision taken lightly..Who enjoys striking?....
We complain about lack of decent education, expect GCSE A-C grade passes from innercity schools then make it damn near impossible by removing resources or increasing teachers workload.

More work for less pay, and if you dont meet targets you could be sacked in 1 term?....

If I don't meet targets I can get sack next week - I'm not going on strike for it - I look for ways around the issue to achieve.

Lack of decent education doesn't stay soley on the part of teachers you know. They provide the fundamental basis - parents also have a right to provide their own teaching - my parents did. I could read, write and read all the little Ladybird books before I went to school. That type of ongoing 'at home' learning continued throughout my life.

It's not all about what teachers teach or how they teach it. It is in part but it's not the entire picture.

Nope....I don't think it is deserved.

[Tom4784]

My mom was talking about this the other day, she's a teaching assistant but she's not keen on the idea as she thinks it's detrimental to the kids' education especially since exams are on the horizon.

I have sympathy for them, it's hard work and they don't get nearly enough recognition.

[Pyramid*]

My mom was talking about this the other day, she's a teaching assistant but she's not keen on the idea as she thinks it's detrimental to the kids' education especially since exams are on the horizon.

I have sympathy for them, it's hard work and they don't get nearly enough recognition.


Neither do many workers get recognition for hard work - nursing auxillaries / the people who clean public toilets etc...... there are so many different levels of 'hard work'.

I doubt it will have any impact on the students at all - other than then loving having an extra day off up their cuffs.

I'm not saying that teachers don't have a right to feel aggrieved but there are many other ways to skin a cat and all that - striking I do not believe is the answer - it's not a serious enough an issue to me for that to be the last resort.

[Kizzy]

If I don't meet targets I can get sack next week - I'm not going on strike for it - I look for ways around the issue to achieve.

Lack of decent education doesn't stay soley on the part of teachers you know. They provide the fundamental basis - parents also have a right to provide their own teaching - my parents did. I could read, write and read all the little Ladybird books before I went to school. That type of ongoing 'at home' learning continued throughout my life.

It's not all about what teachers teach or how they teach it. It is in part but it's not the entire picture.

Nope....I don't think it is deserved.

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
This reminds me of another issue that has been approved, regarding the right to an employment tribunal...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/apr/06/unfair-dismissal-reform-government-unions

It helps if kids have the basics before full time school starts I agree 100% there, however there are those who are not even toilet trained....Its not the teachers fault is it? In areas of of high unemployment and poverty this is one issue teachers face.

They are the fall guys for a failing system.
What do you suggest as alternative to strike action?

[Pyramid*]

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
This reminds me of another issue that has been aproved, regarding the right to an employment tribunal...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/apr/06/unfair-dismissal-reform-government-unions

It helps if kids have the basics before full time school starts I agree 100% there, however there are those who are not even toilet trained....Its not the teachers fault is it? In areas of of high unemployment and poverty this is one issue teachers face.

They are the fall guys for a failing system.


Nothing well dodgy about my job at all - some that I happen to work with however - yes, they are well dodgy! But that comes in any workforce.

Those children who are not toilet trained: that's a whole different issue and does not form any part of the reasons for this strike unless I am mistaken? :conf:

I think you will find on the matter of toilet training (or lack of) - that it is in fact, the more affluent parents who quite literally 'poo poo' their children and molly coddle them - that are at the root cause of that. If I CBA I'd go mooch for facts - but I'm fairly sure that it's more an issue from the 'higher society' parents than those in poorer / unemployed areas.

[Kizzy]

My point there was that teachers are having to spend time teaching these basic functions to kids, and containing classroom disruptions, therefore leaving less time for actual teaching.
This will have a knock on effect in levels of attainment and affect progress made in the classrom in curriculum based activities.
Therefore its not down to poor teaching that targets are not met but circumstances that prevent them from achieving the aims and objectives set for the term.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101292/They-wear-nappies-drink-cola--dont-know-open-book-One-teachers-terrifying-insight-5-year-olds-failed-parents

The responsibilities of primary school teachers has increased over the last few years and so too has the pressure.
This is magnified when they reach secondary school.
To me this is a contributory factor in the case for the teachers, they should not be viewed as disposable commodities when they do not achieve unobtainable goals...
You cannot run a school as a business.

[Marc]

I don't believe that teachers AREN'T allowed to strike due to the fact that parents will have to take days off etc to look after their kids.

Teachers are in a profession just like everybody else, they have a job and responsibilities and they also have families to look after and a future to toward

[Pyramid*]

My point there was that teachers are having to spend time teaching these basic functions to kids, and containing classroom disruptions, therefore leaving less time for actual teaching.
This will have a knock on effect in levels of attainment and affect progress made in the classrom in curriculum based activities.
Therefore its not down to poor teaching that targets are not met but circumstances that prevent them from achieving the aims and objectives set for the term.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101292/They-wear-nappies-drink-cola--dont-know-open-book-One-teachers-terrifying-insight-5-year-olds-failed-parents

The responsibilities of primary school teachers has increased over the last few years and so too has the pressure.
This is magnified when they reach secondary school.
To me this is a contributory factor in the case for the teachers, they should not be viewed as disposable commodities when they do not achieve unobtainable goals...
You cannot run a school as a business.

The point you made is irrelevant to the the reasons for their strike though. That's a totally different thing altogether.

One of the reasons teachers get such a hard time is due to the nambie pampie 'no belt' anymore. One of the reasons - not all so don't misquote or misread that one.

Schools can and do run as businesses. Commonly referred to as private schools. They run as businesses and very well indeed in most cases.

Why? Because they tend to be far stricter than state schools. I know because I've attended both types both here and abroad and in my experience: I can say that with hand on heart.

[Kizzy]

The point you made is irrelevant to the the reasons for their strike though. That's a totally different thing altogether.

One of the reasons teachers get such a hard time is due to the nambie pampie 'no belt' anymore. One of the reasons - not all so don't misquote or misread that one.

Schools can and do run as businesses. Commonly referred to as private schools. They run as businesses and very well indeed in most cases.

Why? Because they tend to be far stricter than state schools. I know because I've attended both types both here and abroad and in my experience: I can say that with hand on heart.

Are you referring to punishment? Belting children is unethical and illegal so thats out im afraid :)
If you have funds you can work wonders as you say, state schools are failing as they dont have the time, funds, resources to put into the kids they have.
Blaming the teachers is a cop out.
And yes the strike is primarily relating to pensions, but these other issues are relevant to the morale of state run schoolteachers I feel.

[Pyramid*]

Are you referring to punishment? Belting children is unethical and illegal so thats out im afraid :)
If you have funds you can work wonders as you say, state schools are failing as they dont have the time, funds, resources to put into the kids they have.
Blaming the teachers is a cop out.
And yes the strike is primarily relating to pensions, but these other issues are relevant to the morale of state run schoolteachers I feel.

No, no, I was referring to the toilet training issue.

Blaming the teachers is not a cop out. It is reality. not all of them of course, that would be ludicrious to suggest that. They may not have an easy job but very few people in life DO have easy jobs.

My own education was probably 60/40 state and private - and I can assure you - there was no issue in my levels of education or high standards throughout all of my state schooling. So much so that when I began private schooling - I was far more ahead in the curriculum. Private schooling did offer tremendous benefits of which I am thankful for - but let's not pretend private school teachers have an easier time. They don't.

The private pupils however do have more respect overall though, for their teachers and their studies. If that wasn't the case: then private schools would not have the success rates that they do.

Much of the lost respect from pupils comes from *imo* a distinct drop in the way many parents raise their children now - with discipline sadly lacking in many cases. i don't mean abuse -I mean effective discipline.

Perhaps it is the calibre of teachers allowed to be qualified that needs to be put into question.... perhaps they aren't made of the right stuff but given that like nursing: it's a career that is nose diving: that they are left with many who would not have made it in the teaching world years ago. *note - not all, not by a long shot, there are many brilliant teachers out there who are tarred with this unfortunate brush - unfairly*

[Kizzy]

No, no, I was referring to the toilet training issue.

Blaming the teachers is not a cop out. It is reality. not all of them of course, that would be ludicrious to suggest that. They may not have an easy job but very few people in life DO have easy jobs.

My own education was probably 60/40 state and private - and I can assure you - there was no issue in my levels of education or high standards throughout all of my state schooling. So much so that when I began private schooling - I was far more ahead in the curriculum. Private schooling did offer tremendous benefits of which I am thankful for - but let's not pretend private school teachers have an easier time. They don't.

The private pupils however do have more respect overall though, for their teachers and their studies. If that wasn't the case: then private schools would not have the success rates that they do.

Much of the lost respect from pupils comes from *imo* a distinct drop in the way many parents raise their children now - with discipline sadly lacking in many cases. i don't mean abuse -I mean effective discipline.

Perhaps it is the calibre of teachers allowed to be qualified that needs to be put into question.... perhaps they aren't made of the right stuff but given that like nursing: it's a career that is nose diving: that they are left with many who would not have made it in the teaching world years ago. *note - not all, not by a long shot, there are many brilliant teachers out there who are tarred with this unfortunate brush - unfairly*

That was a long time ago...;)
Again I don't think you can blame the teachers as they are highly qualified, the problem is they are tied with regard to lesson planning...Classes are structured to the curriculum and there is little room for manoevre.
As you say the level of disipline at home may have changed over the years which has added to the strain on teachers, making the job far more stressful than it was.
Assault cases have risen to alarming levels, and all the while there is the onus on exam results ever present....

[Pyramid*]

That was a long time ago...;)
Again I don't think you can blame the teachers as they are highly qualified, the problem is they are tied with regard to lesson planning...Classes are structured to the curriculum and there is little room for manoevre.
As you say the level of disipline at home may have changed over the years which has added to the strain on teachers, making the job far more stressful than it was.
Assault cases have risen to alarming levels, and all the while there is the onus on exam results ever present....

Precisely my point - that standards of teaching have declined and much of that came with the 'ban the belt' stuff. No deterrents in place so kids knew they could do what the hell they liked with no real consequence.

it's a bit rich (in every sense of the word) to strike about pensions: they way the teachers are going on, you'd think they were the only ones who had cuts to their pension plans. they should think themselves lucky that they work for the state who do in fact contribute to their pension schemes. Far too many who work in the private sector don't have that luxury - but they don't go on strike at any moment it suits them.

never in a million years do the teachers get my sympathy. Not on this one, not a chance. hell would freeze over first.

[Kizzy]

Precisely my point - that standards of teaching have declined and much of that came with the 'ban the belt' stuff. No deterrents in place so kids knew they could do what the hell they liked with no real consequence.

it's a bit rich (in every sense of the word) to strike about pensions: they way the teachers are going on, you'd think they were the only ones who had cuts to their pension plans. they should think themselves lucky that they work for the state who do in fact contribute to their pension schemes. Far too many who work in the private sector don't have that luxury - but they don't go on strike at any moment it suits them.

never in a million years do the teachers get my sympathy. Not on this one, not a chance. hell would freeze over first.

I disagree, educational standards have declined, student standards have declined....not teaching.
Working for the public sector in any capacity is for the benefit of everyone. They do contribute to it , its not free money.
I can see you are not open to this, teachers , firefighters,police officers,nurses.....They deserve respect for the work they do, recently they are being dumped on from a great height.
Its not right, this country will continue to decline untill we look after those who look after us and the future generation.

[Pyramid*]

I disagree, educational standards have declined, student standards have declined....not teaching.
Working for the public sector in any capacity is for the benefit of everyone. They do contribute to it , its not free money.
I can see you are not open to this, teachers , firefighters,police officers,nurses.....They deserve respect for the work they do, recently they are being dumped on from a great height.
Its not right, this country will continue to decline untill we look after those who look after us and the future generation.


Explain what you mean by 'student standards' have declined?

If you mean that students do not respect those in authority (ie the teachers) - that basic and fundamental respect is taught not by teachers, but from the minute the child is old enough to know right from wrong - and is taught by parents. It is then reinforced throughout their education. If a child is disrespectful at home, they will be disrespectful (in the most cases) at school.

We 'look after' the younger ones these days far more than ever children were looked after. That's what's at the root cause: they want for nothing but do nothing to earn what they get on a whim - because some parents think material possessions are far more important.


So tell me again: where did I say I do not respect the jobs of teachers, police, firefighter etc? I didn't.

What I said was that to go on strike because of changes to their jobs and primarily because of issues over their pensions in which they benefit FAR FAR greater priviledge to than most in the private section - is not a good enough reason to go on strike.

Again: what benefit exactly do you see from a one day strike. What precisely is going to be the resultant effect that will be a positive effect for 'their cause' (other than it getting some attention - to no avail - and with no real impact).

BTW: you'll never make a profit on your psychiatric service Kizzy.... you'd make a rubbish business woman - your charges are far too low ..... :D

[Kizzy]

Explain what you mean by 'student standards' have declined?

If you mean that students do not respect those in authority (ie the teachers) - that basic and fundamental respect is taught not by teachers, but from the minute the child is old enough to know right from wrong - and is taught by parents. It is then reinforced throughout their education. If a child is disrespectful at home, they will be disrespectful (in the most cases) at school.

We 'look after' the younger ones these days far more than ever children were looked after. That's what's at the root cause: they want for nothing but do nothing to earn what they get on a whim - because some parents think material possessions are far more important.


So tell me again: where did I say I do not respect the jobs of teachers, police, firefighter etc? I didn't.

What I said was that to go on strike because of changes to their jobs and primarily because of issues over their pensions in which they benefit FAR FAR greater priviledge to than most in the private section - is not a good enough reason to go on strike.

Again: what benefit exactly do you see from a one day strike. What precisely is going to be the resultant effect that will be a positive effect for 'their cause' (other than it getting some attention - to no avail - and with no real impact).

BTW: you'll never make a profit on your psychiatric service Kizzy.... you'd make a rubbish business woman - your charges are far too low ..... :D

Basically yes, Im suggesting ther is a lack of respect for all forms of authority.
They are primarily not being taught boundries at home therefore as secondary socialisation it cannot be reinforced.....

Teachers are from the off at a disadvantage,which is not a good thing when faced with criteria for learning aside from basic social functions.
If you are a public sector worker my view is the government pays a subsidy to reward your service to the country?
As your working life has been to the benefit of all,and not private industry or yourself?......

Again a strike is a last resort, and it is not for me to suggest an outcome ...However I am in favour.
I offer all my 'services' for free as a rule ;)

[Pyramid*]

Basically yes, Im suggesting ther is a lack of respect for all forms of authority.
They are primarily not being taught boundries at home therefore as secondary socialisation it cannot be reinforced.....

Teachers are from the off at a disadvantage,which is not a good thing when faced with criteria for learning aside from basic social functions.
If you are a public sector worker my view is the government pays a subsidy to reward your service to the country?
As your working life has been to the benefit of all,and not private industry or yourself?......

Again a strike is a last resort, and it is not for me to suggest an outcome ...However I am in favour.
I offer all my 'services' for free as a rule ;)

Which leads me back to the quality of the teachers that are being brought into the field now? But this is not what the teachers are discussing strike action for - that's just all an offshoot from the real debate here.

How on earth are teachers at a disadvantage? what's that got to do with the reason they are wanting to strike? What disadvantages have they in respect of some changes to their roles and their pensions.

'Service to your country'. Oh come on now Kizzy. Men and women who put their lives on the serious line - military personnel etc - they serve their country. The more docile occupations that many civil servants fall into is not a service - it's a basic job that they choose to enter into - that they get paid a fair salary for, with many perks that come with working in the civil service.

Still - I've asked this question several times over. What difference do you think a one day strike will have - what actual effective impact will it have 'to their cause'? How exactly so you think 'they think' it will change anything - all it is will be a one day strike, with no real impact other than today's news, tomorrow's fish n chip wrappers.

[Livia]

The only impact a one-day strike will have is that parents will have to find alternative childcare for the day. Parents who probably go to work every day, work hard and don't get a massively subsidised pension. Meanwhile, the teachers will gain an extra day off to add to the twelve weeks they already get.

[arista]

The Teachers Strike
is a Last Resort.

[Pyramid*]

The Teachers Strike
is a Last Resort.

A one day strike isn't much of a resort really. It's pretty pathetic.

It still doesn't answer the question: what is likely to be the resultant impact for their benefit. NONE. It's pointless.

[Pyramid*]

The only impact a one-day strike will have is that parents will have to find alternative childcare for the day. Parents who probably go to work every day, work hard and don't get a massively subsidised pension. Meanwhile, the teachers will gain an extra day off to add to the twelve weeks they already get.

:cheer: for Livia and someone who has the exact same view on it.

[Kizzy]

Which leads me back to the quality of the teachers that are being brought into the field now? But this is not what the teachers are discussing strike action for - that's just all an offshoot from the real debate here.

How on earth are teachers at a disadvantage? what's that got to do with the reason they are wanting to strike? What disadvantages have they in respect of some changes to their roles and their pensions.

'Service to your country'. Oh come on now Kizzy. Men and women who put their lives on the serious line - military personnel etc - they serve their country. The more docile occupations that many civil servants fall into is not a service - it's a basic job that they choose to enter into - that they get paid a fair salary for, with many perks that come with working in the civil service.

Still - I've asked this question several times over. What difference do you think a one day strike will have - what actual effective impact will it have 'to their cause'? How exactly so you think 'they think' it will change anything - all it is will be a one day strike, with no real impact other than today's news, tomorrow's fish n chip wrappers.

I think they feel they are at a significant disadvantage regarding their role and pensions otherwise there would be no need for action...
It is a Public Service. Not military but equally vital imo.
I am hoping it will have a positive impact, if the government continue to ignore the view of these teachers who knows?

[Kizzy]

The only impact a one-day strike will have is that parents will have to find alternative childcare for the day. Parents who probably go to work every day, work hard and don't get a massively subsidised pension. Meanwhile, the teachers will gain an extra day off to add to the twelve weeks they already get.
Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous

[Kizzy]

The Teachers Strike
is a Last Resort.

Well well well....Mr 'anti union' arista......
Strike a chord with you this one does it?.....

[Pyramid*]

I think they feel they are at a significant disadvantage regarding their role and pensions otherwise there would be no need for action...
It is a Public Service. Not military but equally vital imo.
I am hoping it will have a positive impact, if the government continue to ignore the view of these teachers who knows?

You are saying 'they are this/that' but you what you aren't doing is validating your reasons for saying so.

Why are they at a significant disadvantage? In what way?

The men who drive the street cleaning machines for example - they are serving the public - are they included in your sympathy vote - do you think their role is as equal to those young men and women who serve their country and put their lives on the line - and in the line of battle fire?

I realise you are hoping it will have a positive impact - clearly as you would not be in support of it. What I am asking though is what type of impact do you truly believe a one day strike is liable to achieve?

[Pyramid*]

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous


I'm getting my popcorn supplies for this one!! Sorry Kizzy - no offence intended - I'm laughing and you'll understand why very soon. :D

[Livia]

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous

To answer both your questions...

No, I don't work in the public sector, although you already knew the answer to that. My father though - first a soldier and then a paramedic with the London Ambulance Service - has never been on strike. In fact, he's crossed picket lines because he disagrees with militant people striking and putting other people's lives (and in this case, educations) in jeopardy. Considering the amount of money people pay to their unions you think they'd expect them to drag themselves out of the 1970s and represent them a little more effectively, frankly.

I think teachers don't work in holiday times because one of my best friends is a teacher in an inner-city primary school, and her husband is a teacher in an inner-city secondary school. While there is some lesson prep and marking etc. they generally don't work during the holidays.

I work with the public sector. Not directly with public services... but I do have contact with city, council and district councils and I have to say that most of the people I'm forced to deal with wouldn't be able to hold down a job in the private sector... and in many cases couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands.

[Kizzy]

I'm getting my popcorn supplies for this one!! Sorry Kizzy - no offence intended - I'm laughing and you'll understand why very soon. :D

ooooh can hardly contain my excitement...lol

[Pyramid*]

To answer both your questions...

No, I don't work in the public sector, although you already knew the answer to that. My father though - first a soldier and then a paramedic with the London Ambulance Service - has never been on strike. In fact, he's crossed picket lines because he disagrees with militant people striking and putting other people's lives (and in this case, educations) in jeopardy. Considering the amount of money people pay to their unions you think they'd expect them to drag themselves out of the 1970s and represent them a little more effectively, frankly.

I think teachers don't work in holiday times because one of my best friends is a teacher in an inner-city primary school, and her husband is a teacher in an inner-city secondary school. While there is some lesson prep and marking etc. they generally don't work during the holidays.

I work with the public sector. Not directly with public services... but I do have contact with city, council and district councils and I have to say that most of the people I'm forced to deal with wouldn't be able to hold down a job in the private sector... and in many cases couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands.

:worship:

Having worked on both sides of the fence - I have to agree here. I've never seen so much laziness, waste of efficiency, time, equipment and work to rule as I did when I worked in several sectors of both civil service and in the public sector.

So much so that I went back into the private sector - so pissed off it made me watching people on inflated wages, booze hidden away in drawers, topping up their coffee with a quick slash and not one person bothering their arses, 2 hour lunches down at the boozers and coming back half cut - and watching the temps bust their guts and doing far better jobs for far less money.

[Kizzy]

You are saying 'they are this/that' but you what you aren't doing is validating your reasons for saying so.

Why are they at a significant disadvantage? In what way?

The men who drive the street cleaning machines for example - they are serving the public - are they included in your sympathy vote - do you think their role is as equal to those young men and women who serve their country and put their lives on the line - and in the line of battle fire?

I realise you are hoping it will have a positive impact - clearly as you would not be in support of it. What I am asking though is what type of impact do you truly believe a one day strike is liable to achieve?

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

[Jords]

Im well behind the teacher striking /student

[Livia]

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

Do you work in the public sector?

[Pyramid*]

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

I don't honestly see that you have.

If you seriously, in all honesty: believe that the people who clean our streets serve their country on the same level as those who put their lives on the line in war torn battle - I honestly can't take you seriously on this subject.

sorry, but I can't.

[Kizzy]

To answer both your questions...

No, I don't work in the public sector, although you already knew the answer to that. My father though - first a soldier and then a paramedic with the London Ambulance Service - has never been on strike. In fact, he's crossed picket lines because he disagrees with militant people striking and putting other peopleand in this case, educations's lives () in jeopardy. Considering the amount of money people pay to their unions you think they'd expect them to drag themselves out of the 1970s and represent them a little more effectively, frankly.

I think teachers don't work in holiday times because one of my best friends is a teacher in an inner-city primary school, and her husband is a teacher in an inner-city secondary school. While there is some lesson prep and marking etc. they generally don't work during the holidays.

I work with the public sector. Not directly with public services... but I do have contact with city, council and district councils and I have to say that most of the people I'm forced to deal with wouldn't be able to hold down a job in the private sector... and in many cases couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands.

The term 'militant' is an unfair generalisation of all union members.....
Are you suggesting a one day strke will have an adverse affect on educational attainment?...
If teachers choose not to use the off term time to plan lesssons , mark work, appraise students, complete paperwork then yes they will have lots of 'free time'
In what capacity do these people work in the public sector who cannot find their arses....And why would you say that about them?

[Kizzy]

I don't honestly see that you have.

If you seriously, in all honesty: believe that the people who clean our streets serve their country on the same level as those who put their lives on the line in war torn battle - I honestly can't take you seriously on this subject.

sorry, but I can't.

I didn't say that though....You are suggesting I said that.

[Livia]

The term 'militant' is an unfair generalisation of all union members.....
Are you suggesting a one day strke will have an adverse affect on educational attainment?...
If teachers choose not to use the off term time to plan lesssons , mark work, appraise students, complete paperwork then yes they will have lots of 'free time'
In what capacity do these people work in the public sector who cannot find their arses....And why would you say that about them?

I think it's a perfectly fair generalisation. My Dad's been called a "scab" by colleagues and had stuff chucked at him by them while he was trying to get out in an emergency ambulance with his blues and twos on. What would YOU call it? And in fact, I didn't call union members militant, I said "militant people striking".

Seeing as we're coming up to exam time, I'd say every day counted, wouldn't you?

I would say that about them because it's true. I have to endure their endless ineptitude. I'm talking about all areas of councils... planning, refuse collection, children's services (especially children's services), housing, council tax, electoral services... in fact any area that a constituent may have a problem with. So that's pretty much all of them.

[Pyramid*]

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

I didn't say that though....You are suggesting I said that.

I think you need to check back on what you replied to the question I asked - your reply being above for ease.

I did not suggest anything. I quoted your very own sentiments/comment which is exactly what you said.

[Kizzy]

:worship:

Having worked on both sides of the fence - I have to agree here. I've never seen so much laziness, waste of efficiency, time, equipment and work to rule as I did when I worked in several sectors of both civil service and in the public sector.

So much so that I went back into the private sector - so pissed off it made me watching people on inflated wages, booze hidden away in drawers, topping up their coffee with a quick slash and not one person bothering their arses, 2 hour lunches down at the boozers and coming back half cut - and watching the temps bust their guts and doing far better jobs for far less money.

Thats the only people who will have jobs soon, those on temporary 12 week contracts...no holiday pay, no pension, no job security ...That will be a thing of the past.

[Kizzy]

I think it's a perfectly fair generalisation. My Dad's been called a "scab" by colleagues and had stuff chucked at him by them while he was trying to get out in an emergency ambulance with his blues and twos on. What would YOU call it? And in fact, I didn't call union members militant, I said "militant people striking".

Seeing as we're coming up to exam time, I'd say every day counted, wouldn't you?

I would say that about them because it's true. I have to endure their endless ineptitude. I'm talking about all areas of councils... planning, refuse collection, children's services (especially children's services), housing, council tax, electoral services... in fact any area that a constituent may have a problem with. So that's pretty much all of them.

Its a generalisation then to suggest striking people are militant...Maybe they feel that if enough people voice the same view it will make a difference?
Hmmmm, who mentioned miners?....haha

Better tell the government every child matters.....

Let me guess...Especially in child services they 'don't have any funding available'.....
Everywhere else it is not their department, and you get so frustrated you give up?

[Pyramid*]

Thats the only people who will have jobs soon, those on temporary 12 week contracts...no holiday pay, no pension, no job security ...That will be a thing of the past.

Hate to break it to you but even those in long term perm employ rarely have any real job security anymore.....more so those in the private sector.

[Pyramid*]

Its a generalisation then to suggest striking people are militant...Maybe they feel that if enough people voice the same view it will make a difference?
Hmmmm, who mentioned miners?....haha

Better tell the government every child matters.....

Let me guess...Especially in child services they 'don't have any funding available'.....
Everywhere else it is not their department, and you get so frustrated you give up?


Militant is the correct term to be used for those who aggressively take a stance for 'their cause': generalising it as such, is more than reasonable.

As for enough people with voices: empty vessels make the most noise - so nope, no difference will be made.

[Kizzy]

I think you need to check back on what you replied to the question I asked - your reply being above for ease.

I did not suggest anything. I quoted your very own sentiments/comment which is exactly what you said.

I don't need to check back.....I replied once, theres no need to do it again.
Do you not understand my view?...

[Kizzy]

Hate to break it to you but even those in long term perm employ rarely have any real job security anymore.....more so those in the private sector.

The private sector is not in discussion here.

[Kizzy]

Militant is the correct term to be used for those who aggressively take a stance for 'their cause': generalising it as such, is more than reasonable.

As for enough people with voices: empty vessels make the most noise - so nope, no difference will be made.

Define aggressive....
Empty vessels?....Explain this I do not understand, do you not feel the teaching profession has a voice?

[Pyramid*]

I don't need to check back.....I replied once, theres no need to do it again.
Do you not understand my view?...

Nope I don't believe you have offered up anything that has real value for you to substantiate your belief in what can be achieved by a one day strike- as you yourself said below that you had no clue what would realistically be achieved by a one day strike.

That means you are supporting them but have no real grounds for making that choice to support them, as you stated yourself, you have no clue what difference it would make.

The private sector is not in discussion here.

You will find that this impacts upon the private sector very much - many parents of whom work in the private sector - parents of said students who will have to find some way to work around such pathetic actions by some teachers who appear to have no real sense of how fortunate they are this particular time. Any public servant (who are paid for their services from the public tax payers money) who chose strike action: do have a right for it to be questioned by all others in the UK who contribute financially to the fiscal purse. therefore it does indeed have much to do with the private sector - who are also UK citizens and have a right to reply.


Define aggressive....
Empty vessels?....Explain this I do not understand, do you not feel the teaching profession has a voice?

If you need someone to explain a regular, common, every day word, that tells me there has been some serious failings in education levels for longer a period that I initially thought. :shocked:

Again, empty vessels making the most noise. Very common saying with a very clear meaning. I'm pretty sure you know exactly what that means.

The teachers you will find will not have a majority of support from most people in the private sector and nor a great deal within the public sector either. - many who have been and are, in far more precarious & dangerous roles who don't make so much fuss - they just get on with the job that they are paid to do.

Thankfully, we've evolved a little since the 70's.

[Kazanne]

I find it really annoying that teachers can strike without permission!! they penalise parents for taking kids out of school for holidays etc, but they can strike and leave the kids without education for their own benefit,selfish imo.

[joeysteele]

I find it really annoying that teachers can strike without permission!! they penalise parents for taking kids out of school for holidays etc, but they can strike and leave the kids without education for their own benefit,selfish imo.

Good point, I can see all sides on this argument and one of my Cousins is a teacher,even she would say a strike,certainly of a days duration won't make any difference really.

Along with other professions..Teachers are seeing their pension plans hit and that's sad and also may even not be the wisest or right path to go down for the Govt,
Having said that, we all knew no real good economic news was coming for the next few years and I don't see what the professions see as the Govts alternative overall.The Govt has had to make some hard and very necessary economic decisions to protect everyone not just a few.

If the Teachers and Teaching Unions have better ideas and plans themselves then publicise them and keep doing so,the public would be far more likely to get behind them in that scenario than if they went on strike.

Strikes inconvenience everyone,especially from the teaching profession, it should be a valued profession by the Nation but it will do itself no good at all by striking and I cannot see this Govt altering course on this one either,not without a cast iron better plan that would work on the table anyway.

[Kazanne]

Good point, I can see all sides on this argument and one of my Cousins is a teacher,even she would say a strike,certainly of a days duration won't make any difference really.

Along with other professions..Teachers are seeing their pension plans hit and that's sad and also may even not be the wisest or right path to go down for the Govt,
Having said that, we all knew no real good economic news was coming for the next few years and I don't see what the professions see as the Govts alternative overall.The Govt has had to make some hard and very necessary economic decisions to protect everyone not just a few.

If the Teachers and Teaching Unions have better ideas and plans themselves then publicise them and keep doing so,the public would be far more likely to get behind them in that scenario than if they went on strike.

Strikes inconvenience everyone,especially from the teaching profession, it should be a valued profession by the Nation but it will do itself no good at all by striking and I cannot see this Govt altering course on this one either,not without a cast iron better plan that would work on the table anyway.

Totally agree Joey,in these times all of us have to pull together,teachers are valuable,but so are lots of other professions.

[Pyramid*]

Good point, I can see all sides on this argument and one of my Cousins is a teacher,even she would say a strike,certainly of a days duration won't make any difference really.

Along with other professions..Teachers are seeing their pension plans hit and that's sad and also may even not be the wisest or right path to go down for the Govt,
Having said that, we all knew no real good economic news was coming for the next few years and I don't see what the professions see as the Govts alternative overall.The Govt has had to make some hard and very necessary economic decisions to protect everyone not just a few.

If the Teachers and Teaching Unions have better ideas and plans themselves then publicise them and keep doing so,the public would be far more likely to get behind them in that scenario than if they went on strike.

Strikes inconvenience everyone,especially from the teaching profession, it should be a valued profession by the Nation but it will do itself no good at all by striking and I cannot see this Govt altering course on this one either,not without a cast iron better plan that would work on the table anyway.


The part that gets me Joey is these are the very people who are teaching our children - yet seem unable to grasp and comprehend the simple fact that their government pension contributions are funded by the tax payer - which includes all of us 'non teaching staff' !!!

So single minded are they in their selfish greed for pension plans & contributions that vast amounts of people do not receive the same pension benefits - that they don't realise it's those same people who are paying for their contributions - but they are happy enough to put them all to great inconvenience. It's a joke!

That's the scary part....and these are the folk teaching the nations children. If they cannot grasp that the goverment does not have money trees and that there is a limit to what the government can do with all the monies they collect: What hope do we have!:shocked:

These are the same teachers (not all of course) who allow kids to move onto secondary schools who cannot spell the most basic of words, know little regarding grammar and punctuation and often, cannot do simple arithmetic without the aid of calculators etc.

[Pyramid*]

Totally agree Joey,in these times all of us have to pull together,teachers are valuable,but so are lots of other professions.

Yes, not least professions such as police men, military folk - who are forbidden to strike - and who in the case of police: would have their valuable services diverted from protecting the public - to having to stand watch over picket lines. So concerned these teachers in question are that they fail to understand the knock on effect of the costs that will be involved ..... all of course, which will come out of that bottomless pit of a purse that they foolishly believe the Government has.

Idiots.

[Livia]

Its a generalisation then to suggest striking people are militant...Maybe they feel that if enough people voice the same view it will make a difference?
Hmmmm, who mentioned miners?....haha

Better tell the government every child matters.....

Let me guess...Especially in child services they 'don't have any funding available'.....
Everywhere else it is not their department, and you get so frustrated you give up?

It is also a MASSIVE generalisation to think that everyone in the public service is hard done-by. The next time the paramedics are on strike lets hope one of you or yours don't need an ambulance. But if you do, and one doesn't come, you can take comfort that these heroes are, in your eyes, making a difference for themselves.

The government knows every child matters. You seriously think the government wants children to fail? Wants schools to fail? Did the last government want that too?

No...child services is a mess in almost every council I deal with. Their record-keeping is a mess, they take ages to answer the phone, ages to answer an email, agesto answer a letter... Have you seen what a senior social worker makes? Try getting one before 10am, or after 4pm, or on a Friday afternoon. In fact, try getting any sense out of ANY council before 10am, after 4pm or on a Friday afternoon. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of giving up, which is why it's so frustrating. When I start a job I have to see it through to the end. Something that's quite alien to the public services.

And as far as funding goes... if they want to save some of their funding they should cut the waste. If the public services ran as efficiently as private business has to, they'd have loads more cash to spend on what matters.

The leader of my local council is paid three times what the MP is paid. Pin a medal on him, he's serving his country.

[Kizzy]

Yes, not least professions such as police men, military folk - who are forbidden to strike - and who in the case of police: would have their valuable services diverted from protecting the public - to having to stand watch over picket lines. So concerned these teachers in question are that they fail to understand the knock on effect of the costs that will be involved ..... all of course, which will come out of that bottomless pit of a purse that they foolishly believe the Government has.

Idiots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17537254

[Pyramid*]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17537254

care to actually comment on the very salient direct point I made in respect of the subject matter? rather than putting up a link for a strike which has in fact not been agreed upon?

I'll segment the part of my last comment that you appear to have skimmed over and ignored.

......and who in the case of police: would have their valuable services diverted from protecting the public - to having to stand watch over picket lines. So concerned these teachers in question are that they fail to understand the knock on effect of the costs that will be involved ..... all of course, which will come out of that bottomless pit of a purse that they foolishly believe the Government has.

[arista]

"Strikes inconvenience everyone,especially from the teaching profession, it should be a valued profession by the Nation but it will do itself no good at all by striking and I cannot see this Govt altering course on this one either,not without a cast iron better plan that would work on the table anyway. "


Yes Joey
Kizzy is a militant

[Kizzy]

Nope I don't believe you have offered up anything that has real value for you to substantiate your belief in what can be achieved by a one day strike- as you yourself said below that you had no clue what would realistically be achieved by a one day strike.

That means you are supporting them but have no real grounds for making that choice to support them, as you stated yourself, you have no clue what difference it would make.



You will find that this impacts upon the private sector very much - many parents of whom work in the private sector - parents of said students who will have to find some way to work around such pathetic actions by some teachers who appear to have no real sense of how fortunate they are this particular time. Any public servant (who are paid for their services from the public tax payers money) who chose strike action: do have a right for it to be questioned by all others in the UK who contribute financially to the fiscal purse. therefore it does indeed have much to do with the private sector - who are also UK citizens and have a right to reply.




If you need someone to be explain a regular, common, every day word, that tells me there has been some serious failings in education levels for longer a period that I initially thought. :shocked:

Again, empty vessels making the most noise. Very common saying with a very clear meaning. I'm pretty sure you know exactly what that means.

The teachers you will find will not have a majority of support from most people in the private sector and nor a great deal within the public sector either. - many who have been and are, in far more precarious & dangerous roles who don't make so much fuss - they just get on with the job that they are paid to do.

Thankfully, we've evolved a little since the 70's.

I am not privvy to the thoughts and feelings of those teachers striking....They have their reasons for the timescale of the strike,I have attempted to bring them to your attention by posting the news items relating to the issue. Im not sure what else I can do .

I can empathise with them as I can see where they have a grievance, I support them on those grounds.

They are 'fortunate'? To be fair they have trained very hard and for many years to a standard the government has set to fill this role. To label them 'militant' is unfair.
In this economic climate is it right to expect anyone to effectively take a cut in wages?
As I said strike action is a last resort. It will affect me too but I can fully understand why they may feel it is necessary, due to failures in negotiation.

It's your reason for using the word to be honest i'm not sure about....

It's not really.... and why you have applied that saying to hundreds of well educated people who individually may not feel they have a voice but as part of a union do I don't know....

I disagree, I know many people who are 100% behind teachers and indeed all of the public services in the UK.

We don't seem to be getting anywhere here either, but it has been good to hear of opposing views to my own and I respect your opinion. Looks like we will never see eye to eye on this topic :)

[Kizzy]

It is also a MASSIVE generalisation to think that everyone in the public service is hard done-by. The next time the paramedics are on strike lets hope one of you or yours don't need an ambulance. But if you do, and one doesn't come, you can take comfort that these heroes are, in your eyes, making a difference for themselves.

The government knows every child matters. You seriously think the government wants children to fail? Wants schools to fail? Did the last government want that too?

No...child services is a mess in almost every council I deal with. Their record-keeping is a mess, they take ages to answer the phone, ages to answer an email, agesto answer a letter... Have you seen what a senior social worker makes? Try getting one before 10am, or after 4pm, or on a Friday afternoon. In fact, try getting any sense out of ANY council before 10am, after 4pm or on a Friday afternoon. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of giving up, which is why it's so frustrating. When I start a job I have to see it through to the end. Something that's quite alien to the public services.

And as far as funding goes... if they want to save some of their funding they should cut the waste. If the public services ran as efficiently as private business has to, they'd have loads more cash to spend on what matters.

The leader of my local council is paid three times what the MP is paid. Pin a medal on him, he's serving his country.

Thats unfair the RCN voted not to strike last time so no lives were ever in jeopardy. And first responders were not involved either...

They are failing....And they are blaming the teachers rather than themselves.

Yes, as child services is seriously underfunded...

What do you consider waste?....

I thought the councils were streamlining? With the abolition of police authorities there will be no need for as many councillors so I'm guessing their days are numbered.

We don't need as many MP's either tbh... Or mayors....

[Pyramid*]

I am not privvy to the thoughts and feelings of those teachers striking....They have their reasons for the timescale of the strike,I have attempted to bring them to your attention by posting the news items relating to the issue. Im not sure what else I can do .

I can empathise with them as I can see where they have a grievance, I support them on those grounds.

They are 'fortunate'? To be fair they have trained very hard and for many years to a standard the government has set to fill this role. To label them 'militant' is unfair.
In this economic climate is it right to expect anyone to effectively take a cut in wages?
As I said strike action is a last resort. It will affect me too but I can fully understand why they may feel it is necessary, due to failures in negotiation.

It's your reason for using the word to be honest i'm not sure about....

It's not really.... and why you have applied that saying to hundreds of well educated people who individually may not feel they have a voice but as part of a union do I don't know....

I disagree, I know many people who are 100% behind teachers and indeed all of the public services in the UK.

We don't seem to be getting anywhere here either, but it has been good to hear of opposing views to my own and I respect your opinion. Looks like we will never see eye to eye on this topic :)


If you aren't privy to the teachers' thoughts - the ones that you are supporting - how can you possibly back and support them when you don't know the real reasons behind it, when you are unable to quantify what the goals are, how liable they are to be reached, and the actual real impact on them achieving what they are demanding. Or are you happy in being led blindly by the parts of what is being regurgitated through the media from Unions and their little sheep followers who pay their union fees every month: but when the push comes to the shove and they need their Union for personal matters - they Unions tend to be a waste of time.

I also trained for many years to be in my profession - and the qualifications I actually have: allow me to teach if that was my choice. That took the form of both Uni qualifications and on the job training.

I'm in charge of a budget of £1m per annum and I can tell you now: some teachers get far more salary (and pension plan) than I do. These same teachers that often teach arithmetic / maths to appallingly low levels at times. Spare me the bleeding heart stuff please.

In this economic climate - one of the unions, NUT I think it was, revealed that the monthly wage cut which will show in wage packets next month is an average of £30 per month - they also quoted that it was the first time since 1930 , that public sectors had to take a 'cut' in salary. First since 1930 !!!!

Conversely: I had to take a cut by £4k per annum. I work at least 45hrs per week - more often than not, far more - I am paid for 40 hours. Does it piss me off? Sure it does at times - but I'm also taking home a healthy salary in comparison to many around me and for that I am thankful. I'm also aware that salaries are on the decrease on the job market - plus I enjoy the challenge of my work - regardless - it's how you focus on getting over the hurdles..... not how loud you bleat about them. It's about growing backbones and being made of sterner stuff - and not wimping out - that's it how I see it: it's a bunch of wimps moaning about nothing in reality - given the grand economic scale. We are all suffering: and someone, someone moaning about a pension contribution of £360 less going into their pension pot a year - compared to £4k net salary per year - they don't deserve any sympathy never mind empathy! Not a chance.

Starting to sink in yet - because of the economic crisis currently - private sector doesn't have the luxury of someone handing wads on money out to those who come from a 'grab, grab, take, take but offer little back'. That is what is coming over loud and clear.

We aren't going to agree - that I agree on.

Is your own line of work in the teaching profession Kizzy - or in public service?

[Pyramid*]

Thats unfair the RCN voted not to strike last time so no lives were ever in jeopardy. And first responders were not involved either...

They are failing....And they are blaming the teachers rather than themselves.

Yes, as child services is seriously underfunded...

What do you consider waste?....

I thought the councils were streamlining? With the abolition of police authorities there will be no need for as many councillors so I'm guessing their days are numbered.

We don't need as many MP's either tbh... Or mayors....

Waste? How about the amount of reems of paper that's taken home?

Endless hours spent on personal phone calls.

Replacing equipment such as pcs/ printers etc when they are not needed.

Replacing laserjet toner catridges the very second the 'low ink levels' appear - these things cost a few hundred quid each for good colour one: when a good shake on the catridge will see out easily a few hundred more copies.

Bunking off early. Coming in late.

People sitting around blethering all day.

People being told to 'not work as fast as you're showing everyone up' plus it means if we get through the work, we won't get overtime at the weekend.

Overtime; sunday - hours? 11am - 2pm but everyone told to claim from 10am to 4pm.

Expensive buffets being bought in for unnecessary meeting that lasted an hour at most - for inhouse staff.

I could go on Kizzy but that's just the tip of the iceberg - and as I say: so sickened I was by it: I left the civil service/ public sector (despite loving my job - the whole attitude was deplorable)

You add that type of thing up - in the vast majority of public sector departments, in every buidling, in every town, every county - it would pay for their £30 less contributions thousands of times over.

[Kizzy]

care to actually comment on the very salient direct point I made in respect of the subject matter? rather than putting up a link for a strike which has in fact not been agreed upon?

I'll segment the part of my last comment that you appear to have skimmed over and ignored.

Sorry, heres my take...The police have got sick to death of defending the government stance.
Thier own jobs and future are now hanging in the balance just like everyone elses...And what do you do when you are backed into a corner?....Come out fighting.
Every damn day they put their lives on the line to protect the public.. Only to get at best undervalued and at worst ridiculed!

The views of some towards those in public services is disgusting. They should be supported for the work they do in our communities and in society as a whole not berrated.

[Kizzy]

"Strikes inconvenience everyone,especially from the teaching profession, it should be a valued profession by the Nation but it will do itself no good at all by striking and I cannot see this Govt altering course on this one either,not without a cast iron better plan that would work on the table anyway. "


Yes Joey
Kizzy is a militant

Please don't start name calling, it's rude .....

[Kizzy]

If you aren't privy to the teachers' thoughts - the ones that you are supporting - how can you possibly back and support them when you don't know the real reasons behind it, when you are unable to quantify what the goals are, how liable they are to be reached, and the actual real impact on them achieving what they are demanding. Or are you happy in being led blindly by the parts of what is being regurgitated through the media from Unions and their little sheep followers who pay their union fees every month: but when the push comes to the shove and they need their Union for personal matters - they Unions tend to be a waste of time.

I also trained for many years to be in my profession - and the qualifications I actually have: allow me to teach if that was my choice. That took the form of both Uni qualifications and on the job training.

I'm in charge of a budget of £1m per annum and I can tell you now: some teachers get far more salary (and pension plan) than I do. These same teachers that often teach arithmetic / maths to appallingly low levels at times. Spare me the bleeding heart stuff please.

In this economic climate - one of the unions, NUT I think it was, revealed that the monthly wage cut which will show in wage packets next month is an average of £30 per month - they also quoted that it was the first time since 1930 , that public sectors had to take a 'cut' in salary. First since 1930 !!!!

Conversely: I had to take a cut by £4k per annum. I work at least 45hrs per week - more often than not, far more - I am paid for 40 hours. Does it piss me off? Sure it does at times - but I'm also taking home a healthy salary in comparison to many around me and for that I am thankful. I'm also aware that salaries are on the decrease on the job market - plus I enjoy the challenge of my work - regardless - it's how you focus on getting over the hurdles..... not how loud you bleat about them. It's about growing backbones and being made of sterner stuff - and not wimping out - that's it how I see it: it's a bunch of wimps moaning about nothing in reality - given the grand economic scale. We are all suffering: and someone, someone moaning about a pension contribution of £360 less going into their pension pot a year - compared to £4k net salary per year - they don't deserve any sympathy never mind empathy! Not a chance.

Starting to sink in yet - because of the economic crisis currently - private sector doesn't have the luxury of someone handing wads on money out to those who come from a 'grab, grab, take, take but offer little back'. That is what is coming over loud and clear.

We aren't going to agree - that I agree on.

Is your own line of work in the teaching profession Kizzy - or in public service?


I know the reasons...I have quoted them many times...And they are apparent in the news items contained in the links I provided.
I do not however know their individual thoughts and feelings...Im not mystic meg lol.

I am not being led blindly...Don't worry I have formed my opinion very carefully thankyou.

Good for you, my heart is not bleeding...You made your career choice. Trying to discredit teachers by suggesting you could do a better job is ridiculous.

Have teaching standards, training, workloadpressures in the profession changed since the 30's ....yes they have.
How can you expect a teacher with a family of their own to take a cut of £30 a month?...Its unbelievable.

I watched the budget...and saw the tax rate fall for the top earners...and business tax fall too...I'm bleating at that Im sure many in public services are.
The rich get richer and those who look after the countries kids, and the 999 services get kicked in the nads!


When will it sink in that the se cost cutting exercises are detrimental to this country?

If that is how you feel about those in public service in the UK today I feel very sorry for you. And I feel you are very out of touch in your responses.

[Kizzy]

Waste? How about the amount of reems of paper that's taken home?

Endless hours spent on personal phone calls.

Replacing equipment such as pcs/ printers etc when they are not needed.

Replacing laserjet toner catridges the very second the 'low ink levels' appear - these things cost a few hundred quid each for good colour one: when a good shake on the catridge will see out easily a few hundred more copies.

Bunking off early. Coming in late.

People sitting around blethering all day.

People being told to 'not work as fast as you're showing everyone up' plus it means if we get through the work, we won't get overtime at the weekend.

Overtime; sunday - hours? 11am - 2pm but everyone told to claim from 10am to 4pm.

Expensive buffets being bought in for unnecessary meeting that lasted an hour at most - for inhouse staff.

I could go on Kizzy but that's just the tip of the iceberg - and as I say: so sickened I was by it: I left the civil service/ public sector (despite loving my job - the whole attitude was deplorable)

You add that type of thing up - in the vast majority of public sector departments, in every buidling, in every town, every county - it would pay for their £30 less contributions thousands of times over.

What has this to do with teachers?...

[Pyramid*]

What do you consider waste?....



What has this to do with teachers?...

You were the one who asked the question :joker: ........ I answered it.

The link and the correlation as to where the wasted monies go as far government workers is concerned - many of which I listed - will indeed apply to teachers too....... it really does seem that you are unable to contemplate the bigger picture and anything that remotely impacts directly on government monies - which come from the taxpayers - that keep those in goverment employ, employed!

[Pyramid*]

Sorry, heres my take...The police have got sick to death of defending the government stance.
Thier own jobs and future are now hanging in the balance just like everyone elses...And what do you do when you are backed into a corner?....Come out fighting.
Every damn day they put their lives on the line to protect the public.. Only to get at best undervalued and at worst ridiculed!

The views of some towards those in public services is disgusting. They should be supported for the work they do in our communities and in society as a whole not berrated.

What has any of that to do with the teachers wanting to strike for pensions? The obvious point is that funds will have to be diverted by other government employees - policemen - who will be expected to monitor and be in situ at picket lines.... ie; another prime example of a waste of money - brought about by teachers moaning that their pension contributions are being lowered.

Seriously Kizzy... I can't help but feel you are completely and utterly blinkered without being able to see past this tunnel vision approach of "I support them, not sure why really and I don't comprehend the impact outwith that tiny little window".

[Kizzy]

You were the one who asked the question :joker: ........ I answered it.

The link and the correlation as to where the wasted monies go as far government workers is concerned - many of which I listed - will indeed apply to teachers too....... it really does seem that you are unable to contemplate the bigger picture and anything that remotely impacts directly on government monies - which come from the taxpayers - that keep those in goverment employ, employed!

How can you apply the points you made to teachers?..
There are lots of things that have an impact on government coffers...Im trying to stick to the point here... which are the unreasonable demands on teachers, and their reaction to it.

[Kizzy]

What has any of that to do with the teachers wanting to strike for pensions? The obvious point is that funds will have to be diverted by other government employees - policemen - who will be expected to monitor and be in situ at picket lines.... ie; another prime example of a waste of money - brought about by teachers moaning that their pension contributions are being lowered.

Seriously Kizzy... I can't help but feel you are completely and utterly blinkered without being able to see past this tunnel vision approach of "I support them, not sure why really and I don't comprehend the impact outwith that tiny little window".

You brought up the subject of the police, and asked me to clarify my point to the link i posted....

I am not...I can see perfectly well thankyou, you might have a better view if you got off that tall horse....;)

[Pyramid*]

I know the reasons...I have quoted them many times...And they are apparent in the news items contained in the links I provided.
I do not however know their individual thoughts and feelings...Im not mystic meg lol.

I am not being led blindly...Don't worry I have formed my opinion very carefully thankyou.

Good for you, my heart is not bleeding...You made your career choice. Trying to discredit teachers by suggesting you could do a better job is ridiculous.

Have teaching standards, training, workloadpressures in the profession changed since the 30's ....yes they have.
How can you expect a teacher with a family of their own to take a cut of £30 a month?...Its unbelievable.

I watched the budget...and saw the tax rate fall for the top earners...and business tax fall too...I'm bleating at that Im sure many in public services are.
The rich get richer and those who look after the countries kids, and the 999 services get kicked in the nads!


When will it sink in that the se cost cutting exercises are detrimental to this country?

If that is how you feel about those in public service in the UK today I feel very sorry for you. And I feel you are very out of touch in your responses.

Kizzy - you are all over the place here.

one minute you are saying you know the reasons, the next you are saying that you aren't privvy to the thoughts and reasons. :conf:

One minute you ask ''what waste'' and when you receive the reply, you ask ''what's that got to do with teachers'' :conf:

Please point out to me where I said I could do a better job of the teachers? Show me the exact quote, with the specific words that I said that. :conf:

A cut of £30 a month Kizzy is no big deal for anyone on a teacher's salary. It is more than achievable and if they are so aggrieved about it: why don't the remove themself from teaching in state schools and enter the private schooling side of things? To use your own words back at you.... THEY chose their career choice. No one is forcing them to stay.

Let's be honest; most of them know fine well they'd have to work a damn sight harder....even bringing them in a higher salary - but they don't want to make that choice - because it means they would actually (a lot of them) have to do some real hard graft and actually be held accountable for it.

If they can't hack the responsibilities of ever changing roles, it's spitting dummies out of pram stuff.

[Pyramid*]

You brought up the subject of the police, and asked me to clarify my point to the link i posted....

I am not...I can see perfectly well thankyou, you might have a better view if you got off that tall horse....;)

Yes I know.... but somehow, after you asked the question, to which I replied to - you took the ''what's that got to do with it stance''. It's as though you've no idea what you posted / asked previously.

I far prefer being upon my horse Kizzy... and least I get a very clear view up here and with lots of fresh air to keep my mind sharp. That aside: you can quit with the snidey remarks right now - you were quick enough to pull Arista up for him being of the opinion that you are militant (which in fact, is a view that I share - that's not an insult, it is a reasonable assessment on your stance). If you can't take any smarty comment back, then the easy solution is: don't give them out.

[Pyramid*]

How can you apply the points you made to teachers?..
There are lots of things that have an impact on government coffers...Im trying to stick to the point here... which are the unreasonable demands on teachers, and their reaction to it.

No, what you are in fact doing is going off topic when it suits you (toilet training ring any bells...).

You are also avoiding being able to quantify in any real way: what precisely you think it wrong with (let's go for your own viewpoint here) - professional who have trained for year, highly educated people - being empowered. Empowered Kizzy. Being given personal responsibility for their own decisions and the impact that they (as individual teachers) can have to the postive.

You have also failed totally and to the most astonishing levels: a complete denial (or perhaps you know there is no sensible answer) to the question of the monetary cost such strikes have on the country - on it's already moth eaten purse.

The blinkers are well and truly closed with absolutely no thought or consideration as to WHERE all the money comes from in the first place.

I will ask you again Kizzy...unless I have missed you replying to it already? What line of work/profession are you in - and why are so you keen so avoid answering such an easy question?

[Kizzy]

Kizzy - you are all over the place here.

one minute you are saying you know the reasons, the next you are saying that you aren't privvy to the thoughts and reasons. :conf:

One minute you ask ''what waste'' and when you receive the reply, you ask ''what's that got to do with teachers'' :conf:

Please point out to me where I said I could do a better job of the teachers? Show me the exact quote, with the specific words that I said that. :conf:

A cut of £30 a month Kizzy is no big deal for anyone on a teacher's salary. It is more than achievable and if they are so aggrieved about it: why don't the remove themself from teaching in state schools and enter the private schooling side of things? To use your own words back at you.... THEY chose their career choice. No one is forcing them to stay.

Let's be honest; most of them know fine well they'd have to work a damn sight harder....even bringing them in a higher salary - but they don't want to make that choice - because it means they would actually (a lot of them) have to do some real hard graft and actually be held accountable for it.

If they can't hack the responsibilities of every changing roles, it's spitting dummies out of pram stuff.

Wrong...I said I was not privvy to individual thoughts and feelings regarding the strice....
I am well aware of the general view of the teachers involved.

To be fair the 'What waste' comment was directed at livia, therefore I was a little thrown when you replied to that point...
The conversation had seemed to go a little 'off track' I was trying to bring it back :)
You suggested that you were as qualified as a teacher....And with respect it takes a lot more than a paper qualification to be a teacher.

Have you spoken to any teachers regarding this drop in wages?....Im guessing no.
Is that your serious response?...That decent teachers who don't like their salary and pension cut they can go work in the private sector....
Who will teach the children in state schools then?...

I don't think you have the first clue about teaching judging by this comment...
Teachers have an extremely stressful demanding job, if you disagree fine but your 'old school' perception cannot be applied today.
Times have changed there are challenges that teachers face today that 15-20 years ago did not exist...

[Kizzy]

Yes I know.... but somehow, after you asked the question, to which I replied to - you took the ''what's that got to do with it stance''. It's as though you've no idea what you posted / asked previously.

I far prefer being upon my horse Kizzy... and least I get a very clear view up here and with lots of fresh air to keep my mind sharp. That aside: you can quit with the snidey remarks right now - you were quick enough to pull Arista up for him being of the opinion that you are militant (which in fact, is a view that I share - that's not an insult, it is a reasonable assessment on your stance). If you can't take any smarty comment back, then the easy solution is: don't give them out.

Please don't make this a personal attack it was not intended to cause offence...If it did im sorry, there is nothing to gain from throwing insults.
I am not militant ...It is in no way a reasonable assessment ,I could get upset at that remark ...but I won't as I feel you are attempting to prove a point.

[Livia]

Thats unfair the RCN voted not to strike last time so no lives were ever in jeopardy. And first responders were not involved either...

They are failing....And they are blaming the teachers rather than themselves.

Yes, as child services is seriously underfunded...

What do you consider waste?....

I thought the councils were streamlining? With the abolition of police authorities there will be no need for as many councillors so I'm guessing their days are numbered.

We don't need as many MP's either tbh... Or mayors....

I wasn't talking about nurses I quite clearly said paramedics.

The first part of your post is just banging on with the same misguided, misinformed nonsense as before, so I will just answer your latest swerve.

You obviously have no idea what councillors do. Do you know what they're paid? It's around £4000 a year. They're on call ALL the time, their contact details are published and people in their wards call them all the time and they're expected to help when they're needed. They're not paid a massive salary and a pension. Perhaps if people - like yourself - who are so disillusioned with everything fought and won a council seat, you'd be able to put the world right instead of just moaning about it. Although I'm sure you wouldn't want to do what they do for £80 a week.

You know even less about MPs than you do about councillors. I would love you to spend a week in an MPs office just to see the amount of emails, calls and letters that are received. MPs have around 90,000 voters in their constituency. That's a LOT of people. Only half on them will have voted, and only have of those who voted will have voted for that MP. But he or she still has to represent every single one of them. You'd be shocked if you knew how much work passes through an MPs office. To suggest we should cut their number and increase the workload of already overloaded constituency staff is absurd and misguided. I'm surpprised they didn't teach you this stuff on your course.

[Kizzy]

No, what you are in fact doing is going off topic when it suits you (toilet training ring any bells...).

You are also avoiding being able to quantify in any real way: what precisely you think it wrong with (let's go for your own viewpoint here) - professional who have trained for year, highly educated people - being empowered. Empowered Kizzy. Being given personal responsibility for their own decisions and the impact that they (as individual teachers) can have to the postive.

You have also failed totally and to the most astonishing levels: a complete denial (or perhaps you know there is no sensible answer) to the question of the monetary cost such strikes have on the country - on it's already moth eaten purse.

The blinkers are well and truly closed with absolutely no thought or consideration as to WHERE all the money comes from in the first place.

I will ask you again Kizzy...unless I have missed you replying to it already? What line of work/profession are you in - and why are so you keen so avoid answering such an easy question?

That had relevance due to the changing roles of teaching in this 'modern' society...

Personally responsible for what?....the failure to get kids to attainment levels that are unrealistic or face disaplinary action?....yeah, thats an attractive prospect...:conf:

Whats astonishing is that the government are allowing this to happen, they want a public backlash so folks like you will sa...Oh those naughty teachers....Its so transparent.

I am well aware of where the money comes from, please don't patronise me.

[Pyramid*]

Wrong...I said I was not privvy to individual thoughts and feelings regarding the strice....
I am well aware of the general view of the teachers involved.

To be fair the 'What waste' comment was directed at livia, therefore I was a little thrown when you replied to that point...
The conversation had seemed to go a little 'off track' I was trying to bring it back :)
You suggested that you were as qualified as a teacher....And with respect it takes a lot more than a paper qualification to be a teacher.

Have you spoken to any teachers regarding this drop in wages?....Im guessing no.
Is that your serious response?...That decent teachers who don't like their salary and pension cut they can go work in the private sector....
Who will teach the children in state schools then?...

I don't think you have the first clue about teaching judging by this comment...
Teachers have an extremely stressful demanding job, if you disagree fine but your 'old school' perception cannot be applied today.
Times have changed there are challenges that teachers face today that 15-20 years ago did not exist...


If you noticed, I had also (even before Livia) made mention of waste - that is why I picked up on that. Besides which: the comments are open to all to reply to - it's not a one man/woman convo going on.

You were the one who made a big deal about teachers having to train for years as though it was akin to training brain surgeons ..... I pointed out that my qualifications allow me to teach - showing you that it's not some elusive club - any Tom, Dick, Harry or even Pyramid can enter the system if they so wish - if they have some remote semblence of intelligence. Whether that maketh them good or bad teachers comes only with experience.

If they don't like their chosen profession that they are moaning about - let them leave it then. It's not a hard choice. Plenty of people on the dole who would love the chance to take their place - and would be far more appreciative of having their jobs.


I love the way you jump in and assume. My best friend, whom I see every day, speak to every day - is and has been in the teaching profession for over 15 years. We discuss both her work and mine more often that I care to go into: and you can take my word for it that whilst she admits there are challenges, she doesn't agree with the proposed strike and compares my workloads to hers, my hours to hers and is eternally grateful to be where she is. I'm sure you won't like me telling you that, regardless of it being truthful.

Again... what is your own profession / line of work Kizzy.

In respect of the tone and wording of your own posts you are bordering, - if not overstepping the line Kizzy in respect of your comments which are progressively becoming personal and unecessary. I'm afraid that when you continue down that line: you have long lost the debate.

For the record: the word militant can be used as both a verb and a noun. In my view: your stance is a militant one - ie: a verb. That's my evaluating your stance on this. Education does make a difference after all, but hey: I was lucky enough to have been educated by the 'old school teachers' - many years ago, but still smart enough to retain that info that I was taught - ohh arrr...them were the days.. ;)

[joeysteele]

The number of MPs is going to be cut, by about 50 at the next election,so to be fair,MPs have included themselves in the streamlining process too.

As I said earlier, few people were expecting good news from the Govt as to finances for years, I agree some things may not be the best way, but sadly often there is in economics an 'only' way to go.The Govt has had to make decisions within the concept of the whole picture for everyone in the UK not just a little snapshot of part of it.

Teachers are not the only people affected, it would be great if no one had to be but this Govt does have a massive problem as to finances, it can be sorted but it will take some sacrifices from everyone, Teachers included.
Sadly for Teachers and the UK as a whole, strikes will create bad feeling and do the Teachers little good at all.
Not to mention the effect repeated strikes could have on children too as to their education.

[Pyramid*]

That had relevance due to the changing roles of teaching in this 'modern' society...

Personally responsible for what?....the failure to get kids to attainment levels that are unrealistic or face disaplinary action?....yeah, thats an attractive prospect...:conf:

Whats astonishing is that the government are allowing this to happen, they want a public backlash so folks like you will sa...Oh those naughty teachers....Its so transparent.

I am well aware of where the money comes from, please don't patronise me.

Believe me Kizzy, I am not patronising you. I don't have to. I am (in vain) pointing out repeatedly what you refuse to listen or hear.

Personally be responsible for improving their own teaching systems within the boundaries of their job roles. 'Times change Kizzy - and some need a good kick up the arse and learn to change with them - not against them.

[Pyramid*]

The number of MPs is going to be cut, by about 50 at the next election,so to be fair,MPs have included themselves in the streamlining process too.

As I said earlier, few reasonable people were expecting good news from the Govt as to finances for years, I agree some things may not be the best way, but sadly often there is in economics an 'only' way to go.The Govt has had to make decisions within the concept of the whole picture for everyone in the UK not just a little snapshot of part of it.

Teachers are not the only people affected, it would be great if no one had to be but this Govt does have a massive problem as to finances, it can be sorted but it will take some sacrifices from everyone, Teachers included.
Sadly for Teachers and the UK as a whole, strikes will create bad feeling and do the Teachers little good at all.
Not to mention the effect repeated strikes could have on children too as to their education.


The elusive points that seems to be getting completely lost in transit - but so good that I wanted to highlight them.

I feel like I'm falling into the twilight zone here!

[Kizzy]

I wasn't talking about nurses I quite clearly said paramedics.

The first part of your post is just banging on with the same misguided, misinformed nonsense as before, so I will just answer your latest swerve.

You obviously have no idea what councillors do. Do you know what they're paid? It's around £4000 a year. They're on call ALL the time, their contact details are published and people in their wards call them all the time and they're expected to help when they're needed. They're not paid a massive salary and a pension. Perhaps if people - like yourself - who are so disillusioned with everything fought and won a council seat, you'd be able to put the world right instead of just moaning about it. Although I'm sure you wouldn't want to do what they do for £80 a week.

You know even less about MPs than you do about councillors. I would love you to spend a week in an MPs office just to see the amount of emails, calls and letters that are received. MPs have around 90,000 voters in their constituency. That's a LOT of people. Only half on them will have voted, and only have of those who voted will have voted for that MP. But he or she still has to represent every single one of them. You'd be shocked if you knew how much work passes through an MPs office. To suggest we should cut their number and increase the workload of already overloaded constituency staff is absurd and misguided. I'm surpprised they didn't teach you this stuff on your course.

It is my opinion...If you don't agree fine.

£4000 a year...ok...:joker:
Not like an MP then... Im not disillusioned, I'm diappointed.
Its annoying when people cannot see behind the scenes isn't it?...The hard work and planning ...constant evaluations and the stress and the pressure you are under for no thanks. It's just awful...

[Pyramid*]

It is my opinion...If you don't agree fine.

£4000 a year...ok...:joker:
Not like an MP then... Im not disillusioned, I'm diappointed.
Its annoying when people cannot see behind the scenes isn't it?...The hard work and planning ...constant evaluations and the stress and the pressure you are under for no thanks. It's just awful...

Did you actually vote Kizzy? I mean as in, if you feel MP's are such a waste, what did you vote for then? Your local Big Issue Seller? :conf:

People don't go into a profession to be thanked. Children are thanked when they do a good job. Intelligent adults do their job for a salary. Thanks are a bonus for a job well done.

That's the bit you seem to be missing. They go into a profession such as teaching through their own volition, their own choice: and (as bizarre as it sounds) - teachers received more than adequate renumeration, perks and benefits - it's called working for a living, not expecting hand outs right, left and centre.

[Kizzy]

If you noticed, I had also (even before Livia) made mention of waste - that is why I picked up on that. Besides which: the comments are open to all to reply to - it's not a one man/woman convo going on.

You were the one who made a big deal about teachers having to train for years as though it was akin to training brain surgeons ..... I pointed out that my qualifications allow me to teach - showing you that it's not some elusive club - any Tom, Dick, Harry or even Pyramid can enter the system if they so wish - if they have some remote semblence of intelligence. Whether that maketh them good or bad teachers comes only with experience.

If they don't like their chosen profession that they are moaning about - let them leave it then. It's not a hard choice. Plenty of people on the dole who would love the chance to take their place - and would be far more appreciative of having their jobs.


I love the way you jump in and assume. My best friend, whom I see every day, speak to every day - is and has been in the teaching profession for over 15 years. We discuss both her work and mine more often that I care to go into: and you can take my word for it that whilst she admits there are challenges, she doesn't agree with the proposed strike and compares my workloads to hers, my hours to hers and is eternally grateful to be where she is. I'm sure you won't like me telling you that, regardless of it being truthful.

Again... what is your own profession / line of work Kizzy.

In respect of the tone and wording of your own posts you are bordering, - if not overstepping the line Kizzy in respect of your comments which are progressively becoming personal and unecessary. I'm afraid that when you continue down that line: you have long lost the debate.

For the record: the word militant can be used as both a verb and a noun. In my view: your stance is a militant one - ie: a verb. That's my evaluating your stance on this. Education does make a difference after all, but hey: I was lucky enough to have been educated by the 'old school teachers' - many years ago, but still smart enough to retain that info that I was taught - ohh arrr...them were the days.. ;)

Ok..

Not true, brain surgeons have to train for a couple of weeks longer i think...:)

Really....
Where did you get they don't like the profession from?....:conf:

I offered my opinion is all...You can tell me what you like I'm open to the views of others.

I don't feel I have overstepped the mark in any way, I apologised for the horse comment that you chose to take offence to.
I have not won or lost anything ...I have given my opinion on a topic, as have you.

I disagree, and noun or verb I would appreciate it if you did not refer to me as militant again please.

[Kizzy]

Believe me Kizzy, I am not patronising you. I don't have to. I am (in vain) pointing out repeatedly what you refuse to listen or hear.

Personally be responsible for improving their own teaching systems within the boundaries of their job roles. 'Times change Kizzy - and some need a good kick up the arse and learn to change with them - not against them.

In my opinion you are.

By reducing their pay and cutting their pension?...

[Kizzy]

Did you actually vote Kizzy? I mean as in, if you feel MP's are such a waste, what did you vote for then? Your local Big Issue Seller? :conf:

People don't go into a profession to be thanked. Children are thanked when they do a good job. Intelligent adults do their job for a salary. Thanks are a bonus for a job well done.

That's the bit you seem to be missing. They go into a profession such as teaching through their own volition, their own choice: and (as bizarre as it sounds) - teachers received more than adequate renumeration, perks and benefits - it's called working for a living, not expecting hand outs right, left and centre.


Are we still having a rational debate?...:joker:

Are you suggesting teachers int he UK do not do a good job?
What are these perks?

[Pyramid*]

Ok..

Not true, brain surgeons have to train for a couple of weeks longer i think...:)

Really....
Where did you get they don't like the profession from?....:conf:

I offered my opinion is all...You can tell me what you like I'm open to the views of others.

I don't feel I have overstepped the mark in any way, I apologised for the horse comment that you chose to take offence to.
I have not won or lost anything ...I have given my opinion on a topic, as have you.

I disagree, and noun or verb I would appreciate it if you did not refer to me as militant again please.


I'm quite allowed to form an opinion on someone else's view: my view is that your stance is a militant one and I am quite a liberty to hold that view of your opinion. If you pay attention Kizzy - the one person who did in fact refer to you as a militant - was not I. Don't let a bit of good old fashioned fact get in the way of you not being able to handle a robust debate.

In my opinion you are.

By reducing their pay and cutting their pension?...

The one guilty of being patronising, supercillious, and facetious and rude, in many posts, I would say was you. Not I. That's my opinion - and never shall the two meet half way.

Are we still having a rational debate?...:joker:

Are you suggesting teachers int he UK do not do a good job?
What are these perks?

Rational debate ceased pages ago Kizzy when you continued deflecting, swerving, ducking and diving , pretending you didn't post things that you did in fact post, addressed points that people didn't ask you to, completely ignored specific questions that you were asked, when you blatantly refused to accept the bigger implications of the impact of such selfishness on the behalf of teachers. You don't have to agree, but to fail to accept or even acknowledge that any such strike action involves to the detriment, far more than the teachers - is proposterous.

I love good fiery debates with much rationale and reasoning as anyone wants to throw in. Regrettaby, that seems to have halted some time ago.

I'll leave you to it. What was an interesting thread was killed several pages back.

[Kazanne]

Cheeky bleeders,what other proffession get so many paid holidays,plus free pencils,paper etc,LOL

[Pyramid*]

Cheeky bleeders,what other proffession get so many paid holidays,plus free pencils,paper etc,LOL

The bastards get hunners of these for free.... too. AND in different colours.

It's a bloody disgrace ah tell ya.... a bloody disgrace.

:nono:

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPMC1FSB75Aif0U3eT_sP6mpetMq1q_ ZZof6yUjjhdW-DTuSTWQA

:spin:

[Kizzy]

I'm quite allowed to form an opinion on someone else's view: my view is that your stance is a militant one and I am quite a liberty to hold that view of your opinion. If you pay attention Kizzy - the one person who did in fact refer to you as a militant - was not I. Don't let a bit of good old fashioned fact get in the way of you not being able to handle a robust debate.



The one guilty of being patronising, supercillious, and facetious and rude, in many posts, I would say was you. Not I. That's my opinion - and never shall the two meet half way.



Rational debate ceased pages ago Kizzy when you continued deflecting, swerving, ducking and diving , pretending you didn't post things that you did in fact post, addressed points that people didn't ask you to, completely ignored specific questions that you were asked, when you blatantly refused to accept the bigger implications of the impact of such selfishness on the behalf of teachers. You don't have to agree, but to fail to accept or even acknowledge that any such strike action involves to the detriment, far more than the teachers - is proposterous.

I love good fiery debates with much rationale and reasoning as anyone wants to throw in. Regrettaby, that seems to have halted some time ago.

I'll leave you to it. What was an interesting thread was killed several pages back.

It is not...
You are having trouble with the fact I have an opposing view to yourself.
Can you provide evidence of my patronising, supercillious,facetious or rude posts, I would appreciate the right to reply to these accusations.?
I don't believe they are selfish. And have put forward my point as to why I feel they may be justified in their actions.
I don't believe it was, we just disagree on this issue, I have no intention of changing my view on this either. However I respect your opinion, my point is no less valid because it differs to yours.

[Pyramid*]

Can you provide evidence of my patronising, supercillious,facetious or rude posts, I would appreciate the right to reply to these accusations.?



What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha


(reference my own comment about my own state education).....That was a long time ago...;)



Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.

Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous

. Trying to discredit teachers by suggesting you could do a better job is ridiculous.


If that is how you feel about those in public service in the UK today I feel very sorry for you. And I feel you are very out of touch in your responses.


I am not...I can see perfectly well thankyou, you might have a better view if you got off that tall horse....;)


You suggested that you were as qualified as a teacher....And with respect it takes a lot more than a paper qualification to be a teacher.

Have you spoken to any teachers regarding this drop in wages?....Im guessing no.


I don't think you have the first clue about teaching judging by this comment...




I am well aware of where the money comes from, please don't patronise me.

See the ones I picked for your delectation.

Here endeth communication.

[Kazanne]

The bastards get hunners of these for free.... too. AND in different colours.

It's a bloody disgrace ah tell ya.... a bloody disgrace.

:nono:

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPMC1FSB75Aif0U3eT_sP6mpetMq1q_ ZZof6yUjjhdW-DTuSTWQA

:spin:

:joker::joker:just think of all the voluntary work they could be doing in those LONG summer hols!

[Pyramid*]

:joker::joker:just think of all the voluntary work they could be doing in those LONG summer hols!

And they get these as well.

http://www.artshopmaterials.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/r/pritt_stick._standard_10g_stick.jpg

and paints, crayons, colouring pens... I needed all of these things for my easter egg this morning. :(

[Pyramid*]

Yeah..... I spend some of my free time doing voluntary work for kids - and I hate the wee sods!! :joker:

[Kazanne]

Yeah..... I spend some of my free time doing voluntary work for kids - and I hate the wee sods!! :joker:

You should go on strike,it's the only thing to do,:evilgrin:Ya poor hard done by woman:hugesmile::whistle:

[Kizzy]

See the ones I picked for your delectation.

Here endeth communication.
View Post

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
I did not say you were dodgy did I?...Not sure why you found that rude.

That was a long time ago...
It is a long time since you were at school.Its a long time since I was at school ...I mentioned that too.

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Asking a question is not rude....

Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous
Making a statement is not rude.

Trying to discredit teachers by suggesting you could do a better job is ridiculous
Having an opinion is not rude.

If that is how you feel about those in public service in the UK today I feel very sorry for you. And I feel you are very out of touch in your responses
Again just my view..

you might have a better view if you got off that tall horse....
I apologised for this comment once. I don't feel i need to again.

And with respect it takes a lot more than a paper qualification to be a teacher.
Another fact. Not in the slightest rude.

Have you spoken to any teachers regarding this drop in wages?....Im guessing no.
I find it hard to believe any teacher would welcome this, or agree with your view to be fair. Yet you say you have so I stand corrected...

I don't think you have the first clue about teaching judging by this comment...
Another personal opinion, based on your reactions to my comments.

I am well aware of where the money comes from, please don't patronise me.
From what I can see this Is my reaction to yourrudeness...

Thankyou for letting me explain my reasoning behind these comments.

[Pyramid*]

You should go on strike,it's the only thing to do,:evilgrin:Ya poor hard done by woman:hugesmile::whistle:

I'm on strike till Tuesday, but I may break the picket lines tomorrow for a few hours. :shocked::shocked::shocked: since I've got the keys - I can sneak in under the stealth of darkness and no one will even know. Mwhhh haa haaa:devil:

[Kazanne]

I'm on strike till Tuesday, but I may break the picket lines tomorrow for a few hours. :shocked::shocked::shocked: since I've got the keys - I can sneak in under the stealth of darkness and no one will even know. Mwhhh haa haaa:devil:

You got too many perks woman:dance:

[Pyramid*]

View Post

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
I did not say you were dodgy did I?...Not sure why you found that rude.

Telling another person that they in dodgy employment is rude and offensive.

That was a long time ago...
It is a long time since you were at school.Its a long time since I was at school ...I mentioned that too.

I happen to have studied when I was in my 20's, and into my 30's. With a a shorter study period in my 40's. You don't have to have to reflect on standards 30 years or so ago - learning doesn't stop for all after secondary school. It was a smart arse comment.

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Asking a question is not rude....

No it is not .... not allowing the person to answer, but chosing instead to be rudely presumptious - is rude, patronising and supercillious. You will not that YOU however have flatly refused to answer the same question posed to you (minus the sacarsm)

Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous
Making a statement is not rude.

You made no statement - you made a comment / preposed question - and one that again you do not allow the person to answer - instead - you very wrongly make an incorrect assumption and chose to mock them instead.


Trying to discredit teachers by suggesting you could do a better job is ridiculous
Having an opinion is not rude.

No it is not. Misquoting and failing to quote what another person actually said - and twisting in around is however in an poor attempt to mock them however, is sanctimonous.

If that is how you feel about those in public service in the UK today I feel very sorry for you. And I feel you are very out of touch in your responses
Again just my view..

No it is not. It's a personal snipe. If I had to say: I feel sorry for you because your posting style follows a pattern of repetitveness, is very restricted - and that I feel you too are out of touch on how to socially interract - that isn't just a view: would be offensive.

you might have a better view if you got off that tall horse....
I apologised for this comment once. I don't feel i need to again.

I didn't ask for another apology. You asked me for examples. I'm provided them to you so don't ask a question and then complain when you don't like the answer.

And with respect it takes a lot more than a paper qualification to be a teacher.
Another fact. Not in the slightest rude.

Actually it doesn't take more than paper qualifications in the true sense. That comment was on the back of a dig because I advised you that my qualifications allow me to teach. It was again sarcastically designed to be patronising.

Have you spoken to any teachers regarding this drop in wages?....Im guessing no.

I find it hard to believe any teacher would welcome this, or agree with your view to be fair. Yet you say you have so I stand corrected...

Once again - you ask a question - don't allow the person to respond, instead opting to jump in there with sarcastic reply made by yourself... which was (for the umpeenth time that you've done it) - a very wrong assumption to make.

I don't think you have the first clue about teaching judging by this comment...
Another personal opinion, based on your reactions to my comments.

Rude and patronising. You once again jumped in with both feet and make so many wrong assumptions, proven by the last point above.

I am well aware of where the money comes from, please don't patronise me.
From what I can see this Is my reaction to yourrudeness...

Given that you were asked time and time again on this particular matter of funding - and you blatantly ignored the questions (like all the others you were asked) - If you had simply answered (which by the way, you still haven't with any real effect), having to readdress the same question to you time and time again to no availl: shows that I believe you don't have a true picture overall.

Thankyou for letting me explain my reasoning behind these comments.


replies in red.

Now seriously; I'm not replying to you again on this thread Kizzy. I've done so above out of my better judgement, but out out of respect and by way of explanation.

Other than that, we are going around in circles and it's boring the hell out of me now.

[Pyramid*]

You got too many perks woman:dance:

I did in fact have the cheek to print out my online boarding passes and had them dropped off to me a short while ago by a staff member who passed my house en-route home themselves. :shocked: I should hang my head in shame.

I'm going to go wild tomorrow though. The fun I can have, my feet up on my desk, tunes playing in the background whilst I work my way through about 400 emails, prep for 2 major audits, do 2 weeks worth of reports, catch up on Risk Assessments, SSoW, check the wages, complete evaluations, check some tenders, type some memos, commence work on Pre appraisals and while I'm there - I might just for the fun of passing some of all that time I have on my hands, by checking up on the current ADR training and do a few contractor reviews. Hell I might even nip upto the Board Room and stick the coffee perkulator on. (must remember Fabreez to mask all the evidence of course). All unpaid of course but unlike teachers: I don't have the luxury of a stand in / relief when I'm not there.

Such an easy life with no pressure, no responsibilities - I really should feel sorry for the teachers. Shouldn't I. !! ? !! :spin:

[thesheriff443]

whats your stand in, a card board cut out,
your just gloating with your last comments,

[Kizzy]

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
I did not say you were dodgy did I?...Not sure why you found that rude.

Telling another person that they in dodgy employment is rude and offensive.
I didn't tell you anything though...don't misquote me.

That was a long time ago...
It is a long time since you were at school.Its a long time since I was at school ...I mentioned that too.

I happen to have studied when I was in my 20's, and into my 30's. With a a shorter study period in my 40's. You don't have to have to reflect on standards 30 years or so ago - learning doesn't stop for all after secondary school. It was a smart arse comment.
It was not...It is your choice to take it as such that was not the intention of the post

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Asking a question is not rude....

No it is not .... not allowing the person to answer, but chosing instead to be rudely presumptious - is rude, patronising and supercillious. You will not that YOU however have flatly refused to answer the same question posed to you (minus the sacarsm)
I allowed you to answer.... I had a guess as to the reply is all, its not rude

Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous
Making a statement is not rude.

You made no statement - you made a comment / preposed question - and one that again you do not allow the person to answer - instead - you very wrongly make an incorrect assumption and chose to mock them instead.
My statement was not aimed at anyone...you cannot mock someone who does not exist

Trying to discredit teachers by suggesting you could do a better job is ridiculous
Having an opinion is not rude.

No it is not. Misquoting and failing to quote what another person actually said - and twisting in around is however in an poor attempt to mock them however, is sanctimonous.
Sanctimonious....thats a new one,It was my opinion and not an attempted mocking.

If that is how you feel about those in public service in the UK today I feel very sorry for you. And I feel you are very out of touch in your responses
Again just my view..

No it is not. It's a personal snipe. If I had to say: I feel sorry for you because your posting style follows a pattern of repetitveness, is very restricted - and that I feel you too are out of touch on how to socially interract - that isn't just a view: would be offensive.
If you feel I have been rude, why respond with insults?...It makes no sense.

you might have a better view if you got off that tall horse....
I apologised for this comment once. I don't feel i need to again.

I didn't ask for another apology. You asked me for examples. I'm provided them to you so don't ask a question and then complain when you don't like the answer.
Ok

And with respect it takes a lot more than a paper qualification to be a teacher.
Another fact. Not in the slightest rude.

Actually it doesn't take more than paper qualifications in the true sense. That comment was on the back of a dig because I advised you that my qualifications allow me to teach. It was again sarcastically designed to be patronising.
Not at all, I stand by that comment...If you choose to take it out of the context it was intended I can not be held responsible

Have you spoken to any teachers regarding this drop in wages?....Im guessing no.

I find it hard to believe any teacher would welcome this, or agree with your view to be fair. Yet you say you have so I stand corrected...

Once again - you ask a question - don't allow the person to respond, instead opting to jump in there with sarcastic reply made by yourself... which was (for the umpeenth time that you've done it) - a very wrong assumption to make.
I allowed you to respond...I guessed at the reply, no sarcasm was intended

I don't think you have the first clue about teaching judging by this comment...
Another personal opinion, based on your reactions to my comments.

Rude and patronising. You once again jumped in with both feet and make so many wrong assumptions, proven by the last point above.
It is my opinion based on your posts, It is not an assumption, if you find views that don't agree with yours rude and patronising that is your issue not mine.


I am well aware of where the money comes from, please don't patronise me.
From what I can see this Is my reaction to your rudeness...

Given that you were asked time and time again on this particular matter of funding - and you blatantly ignored the questions (like all the others you were asked) - If you had simply answered (which by the way, you still haven't with any real effect), having to readdress the same question to you time and time again to no availl: shows that I believe you don't have a true picture overall.
Is this you trying to excuse your rudeness by suggesting you were exaperated by my continual evasion of your questioning?
I am not on trial and am not bound by law to answer your questioning...
It is astounding how you exhibit such double standards.... It seems you are quick to point fingers at the alleged rudness of others but not acknowledge your own.

[Pyramid*]

whats your stand in, a card board cut out,
your just gloating with your last comments,

Gloating? You don't appear to know the meaning of the word.

It was called clarification which is something entirely different. If a teacher is off - a relief teacher fills in. That doesn't happen for my position - which was very clear.

Apart from which, given that your first post here on this thread, has in fact not entered into the debate or offered up your views on the actual topic that has been taking place - tells me that you may have posted more to sh*t stir than to actually take part in the debate. I could be very wrong, but I doubt it.

[Mystic Mock]

Teachers are pathetic, especially the Primary School Teachers as I knew more stuff than them on certain subjects and I was only 10 at the time.

So how do you actually expect most students to do well when the Teachers are not that bright themselves?

[Pyramid*]

What type of contract of employment do you have?...sounds well dodgy to me haha
I did not say you were dodgy did I?...Not sure why you found that rude.

Telling another person that they in dodgy employment is rude and offensive.
I didn't tell you anything though...don't misquote me.

That was a long time ago...
It is a long time since you were at school.Its a long time since I was at school ...I mentioned that too.

I happen to have studied when I was in my 20's, and into my 30's. With a a shorter study period in my 40's. You don't have to have to reflect on standards 30 years or so ago - learning doesn't stop for all after secondary school. It was a smart arse comment.
It was not...It is your choice to take it as such that was not the intention of the post

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Asking a question is not rude....

No it is not .... not allowing the person to answer, but chosing instead to be rudely presumptious - is rude, patronising and supercillious. You will not that YOU however have flatly refused to answer the same question posed to you (minus the sacarsm)
I allowed you to answer.... I had a guess as to the reply is all, its not rude

Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous
Making a statement is not rude.

You made no statement - you made a comment / preposed question - and one that again you do not allow the person to answer - instead - you very wrongly make an incorrect assumption and chose to mock them instead.
My statement was not aimed at anyone...you cannot mock someone who does not exist

Trying to discredit teachers by suggesting you could do a better job is ridiculous
Having an opinion is not rude.

No it is not. Misquoting and failing to quote what another person actually said - and twisting in around is however in an poor attempt to mock them however, is sanctimonous.
Sanctimonious....thats a new one,It was my opinion and not an attempted mocking.

If that is how you feel about those in public service in the UK today I feel very sorry for you. And I feel you are very out of touch in your responses
Again just my view..

No it is not. It's a personal snipe. If I had to say: I feel sorry for you because your posting style follows a pattern of repetitveness, is very restricted - and that I feel you too are out of touch on how to socially interract - that isn't just a view: would be offensive.
If you feel I have been rude, why respond with insults?...It makes no sense.

you might have a better view if you got off that tall horse....
I apologised for this comment once. I don't feel i need to again.

I didn't ask for another apology. You asked me for examples. I'm provided them to you so don't ask a question and then complain when you don't like the answer.
Ok

And with respect it takes a lot more than a paper qualification to be a teacher.
Another fact. Not in the slightest rude.

Actually it doesn't take more than paper qualifications in the true sense. That comment was on the back of a dig because I advised you that my qualifications allow me to teach. It was again sarcastically designed to be patronising.
Not at all, I stand by that comment...If you choose to take it out of the context it was intended I can not be held responsible

Have you spoken to any teachers regarding this drop in wages?....Im guessing no.

I find it hard to believe any teacher would welcome this, or agree with your view to be fair. Yet you say you have so I stand corrected...

Once again - you ask a question - don't allow the person to respond, instead opting to jump in there with sarcastic reply made by yourself... which was (for the umpeenth time that you've done it) - a very wrong assumption to make.
I allowed you to respond...I guessed at the reply, no sarcasm was intended

I don't think you have the first clue about teaching judging by this comment...
Another personal opinion, based on your reactions to my comments.

Rude and patronising. You once again jumped in with both feet and make so many wrong assumptions, proven by the last point above.
It is my opinion based on your posts, It is not an assumption, if you find views that don't agree with yours rude and patronising that is your issue not mine.


I am well aware of where the money comes from, please don't patronise me.
From what I can see this Is my reaction to your rudeness...

Given that you were asked time and time again on this particular matter of funding - and you blatantly ignored the questions (like all the others you were asked) - If you had simply answered (which by the way, you still haven't with any real effect), having to readdress the same question to you time and time again to no availl: shows that I believe you don't have a true picture overall.
Is this you trying to excuse your rudeness by suggesting you were exaperated by my continual evasion of your questioning?
I am not on trial and am not bound by law to answer your questioning...
It is astounding how you exhibit such double standards.... It seems you are quick to point fingers at the alleged rudness of others but not acknowledge your own.

No you aren't in any court of Law - and neither am I. I do however (unlike you) enter into debates to discuss the subject fully - not to evade the same type of questions that you asked others, who replied, but that you then yourself - which by your own confirmation - continually evaded to answer. That is not healthy discussion. If you feel it is: then perhaps you need to consider what that concept actually means.

Don't expect a reply any further response from me on this matter.

[Mrluvaluva]

I am sorry but I have been reading this thread and really Kizzy you are so bloody rude in some of your answers. Not just in this thread but in others too. There's really no need.

[Kizzy]

No you aren't in any court of Law - and neither am I. I do however (unlike you) enter into debates to discuss the subject fully - not to evade the same type of questions that you asked others, who replied, but that you then yourself - which by your own confirmation - continually evaded to answer. That is not healthy discussion. If you feel it is: then perhaps you need to consider what that concept actually means.

Don't expect a reply any further response from me on this matter.

Ok...I was referring to your requests as to my employment status and if I were working within the public service in that post btw :)
What I do, and in what capacity has no baring on my view on this important social issue.

[Kizzy]

I am sorry but I have been reading this thread and really Kizzy you are so bloody rude in some of your answers. Not just in this thread but in others too. There's really no need.
Im sorry you feel that way... Do you have a view on the topic in discussion ?

[Mrluvaluva]

Im sorry you feel that way... Do you have a view on the topic in discussion ?

There is no point having a debate with you darling. :sleep:

You're not clever with your replies.

[Pyramid*]

Ok...I was referring to your requests as to my employment status and if I were working within the public service in that post btw :)
What I do, and in what capacity has no baring on my view on this important social issue.

Okay I'll bite, but for good reason.

When someone asks what line of work a person is in: that includes past, present or intended future - which was what was asked of you. My past line of work allows me the experience upon which to offer up my views on the public sector workers for instance: despite my now working in the private sector. That therefore afford me great bearing on how my view is affected on this subject matter - so to the contrary - it IS extremely important to how it shapes a person outlook,views, thoughts and ideass

That, along with many other questions in respect of diversion of funds, who did you vote for if you have such disdain for all MPs etc - not one of those questions did you reply to but were happy to mock the content of the replies from myself and others.

If what YOU do for a living has no bearing: then why were YOU so adamant to repeatedly ask others what area of business they worked in? Double standards there from you Kizzy & in no small amount either

[Kizzy]

There is no point having a debate with you darling. :sleep:

You're not clever with your replies.
I'm not your darling...And it does not have to be directed at me...just post your view on the topic?...

[Mystic Mock]

Howcome a fight has broke out on here? I am with Pyramid on this though and I have more that I want to add.

In the School that I go to now, there was a girl in the same year as me being bullied by another guy in my year, she tried to tell the Teacher and she completely ignored what she said and the girl skipped School for 2 days, she told me when she came back what he was doing to her and I beat the **** out of him first and threatened to kill him if he done it again, he hasn't bullied her since as far as im aware.

[Mrluvaluva]

I'm not your darling...And it does not have to be directed at me...just post your view on the topic?...


My view? Hmm...

"No...I don't wish to explain."

Is that a valid answer?

[Mystic Mock]

What I was trying to say but ran out of space was, was that Students skip School if someone is bullying them, and this was a case here where the Teacher knew about it and she didn't do anything about it, disgusting and my friend could have missed out on weeks of education.

[Kizzy]

Okay I'll bite, but for good reason.

When someone asks what line of work a person is in: that includes past, present or intended future - which was what was asked of you. My past line of work allows me the experience upon which to offer up my views on the public sector workers for instance: despite my now working in the private sector. That therefore afford me great bearing on how my view is affected on this subject matter - so to the contrary - it IS extremely important to how it shapes a person outlook,views, thoughts and ideass

That, along with many other questions in respect of diversion of funds, who did you vote for if you have such disdain for all MPs etc - not one of those questions did you reply to but were happy to mock the content of the replies from myself and others.

If what YOU do for a living has no bearing: then why were YOU so adamant to repeatedly ask others what area of business they worked in? Double standards there from you Kizzy & in no small amount either

You had the choice to respond to me...I did not have a gun to your head.
What I do or have done is no concern of yours.
It may shape my view on this topic, I do not have distain for all MPs!...why are you misquoting me again?....It is so rude!

[Pyramid*]

Howcome a fight has broke out on here? I am with Pyramid on this though and I have more that I want to add.

In the School that I go to now, there was a girl in the same year as me being bullied by another guy in my year, she tried to tell the Teacher and she completely ignored what she said and the girl skipped School for 2 days, she told me when she came back what he was doing to her and I beat the **** out of him first and threatened to kill him if he done it again, he hasn't bullied her since as far as im aware.


I'll get the blame !! :bawling:

Don't get me wrong here: this isn't covering all and every teacher as there are some fab ones out there - but it's these bad apples that spoil the whole bunch. Then there is the pressure placed on others by Unions, by the colleagues etc. I've broken strikes before, being called a scab, driving through picket lines, feeling really ill at ease that something bad was going happen etc: and then had to work for months with the hellish unpleasant feelings which bust up friendships etc.

All because I didn't agree and I quite liked the idea of keeping a roof over my head and continue paying my way in this world rather than take the chance of having my 'cards marked'.

[Pyramid*]

You had the choice to respond to me...I did not have a gun to your head.
What I do or have done is no concern of yours.
It may shape my view on this topic, I do not have distain for all MPs!...why are you misquoting me again?....It is so rude!

Kizzy, quit with the baiting. That's all you are doing now. Take your need for a fight elsewhere, seriously I CBA with it.

[Kizzy]

Howcome a fight has broke out on here? I am with Pyramid on this though and I have more that I want to add.

In the School that I go to now, there was a girl in the same year as me being bullied by another guy in my year, she tried to tell the Teacher and she completely ignored what she said and the girl skipped School for 2 days, she told me when she came back what he was doing to her and I beat the **** out of him first and threatened to kill him if he done it again, he hasn't bullied her since as far as im aware.

JF.....Seriously I am at a loss....
There is no fight don't worry....It is a difference of opinion is all :)
You can not write off all teachers for one incident can you?...hmmm?:)

[Kizzy]

My view? Hmm...

"No...I don't wish to explain."

Is that a valid answer?
I depends..If you are just goading me for my comment on another thread then I hope that is recognised...You have added nothing to this debate....to me or anyone else to be fair.

[Mystic Mock]

JF.....Seriously I am at a loss....
There is no fight don't worry....It is a difference of opinion is all :)
You can not write off all teachers for one incident can you?...hmmm?:)

I was only joking on the fight part.:joker:

But this isn't the first time i've seen incompetence off Teachers, if they want to be taken seriously then they need to improve dramatically as I shouldn't have had to help my friend out like that, it's suppose to be the Teachers job to sort situations like that out but she couldn't be bothered.

[Pyramid*]

I was only joking on the fight part.:joker:

But this isn't the first time i've seen incompetence off Teachers, if they want to be taken seriously then they need to improve dramatically as I shouldn't have had to help my friend out like that, it's suppose to be the Teachers job to sort situations like that out but she couldn't be bothered.

JF. You know the first rule of Fight Club is ......sssshhhhh.:nono:

That's them bloody teachers these days, standards are slipping !! tee hee

[Mrluvaluva]

I depends..If you are just goading me for my comment on another thread then I hope that is recognised...You have added nothing to this debate....to me or anyone else to be fair.

Not at all. I just find you rude as I said after reading the thread and others. Did not really want to start a new thread to state my observations. And I am aware I have not added anything to this debate. You hope it is recognised? I'm sure you do.....

[Mystic Mock]

Im laughing at how everyone's viewing this thread but not posting.:joker:

[Pyramid*]

Im laughing at how everyone's viewing this thread but not posting.:joker:


:laugh3: I just checked when I saw your post on here !! (was away looking for chocolates)

[Kizzy]

Kizzy, quit with the baiting. That's all you are doing now. Take your need for a fight elsewhere, seriously I CBA with it.
I am not, I don't want a fight all i want is to have my view. You have yours and I respect that...I have done nothing but defend my opinion.

[Kizzy]

JF. You know the first rule of Fight Club is ......sssshhhhh.:nono:

That's them bloody teachers these days, standards are slipping !! tee hee
I don't feel they are...JF's case was an isolated incident...

[Kizzy]

Im laughing at how everyone's viewing this thread but not posting.:joker:

Are they? I wonder why that is :)......

[Mystic Mock]

I don't feel they are...JF's case was an isolated incident...

I think Pyramid was joking Kizzy.

[Mystic Mock]

Are they? I wonder why that is :)......

On what I saw yes they was.

The debating on here is crazy lol.

[Kizzy]

Not at all. I just find you rude as I said after reading the thread and others. Did not really want to start a new thread to state my observations. And I am aware I have not added anything to this debate. You hope it is recognised? I'm sure you do.....
I am sorry you find me rude, If there is anything I can do to change your mind please let me know...Thankyou

[Kizzy]

I think Pyramid was joking Kizzy.

Really?...Oh great I love jokes :)

[Pyramid*]

I think Pyramid was joking Kizzy.

You thought correct JF. It was indeed reference to your teachers not teaching you the first rule of Fight Club. :joker: Bad teachers. Bad. :nono:

[Vicky.]

Very rare I agree with strikes but this time I do.

It is ridiculous (imo) that a teacher can be threatened with losing their job because kids dont listen. You could follow the curriculum perfectly but if you have a couple of ignorant twats in your class who simply dont want to listen, you can be penalized for it? Unfair.

[Kizzy]

Very rare I agree with strikes but this time I do.

It is ridiculous (imo) that a teacher can be threatened with losing their job because kids dont listen. You could follow the curriculum perfectly but if you have a couple of ignorant twats in your class who simply dont want to listen, you can be penalized for it? Unfair.

Good point vicky, There is too much finger pointing at teachers more emphasis needs to be on reforming the failing system we have, and having stricter rules on disapline.
Teachers are scared of the students in some areas.

[Pyramid*]

Very rare I agree with strikes but this time I do.

It is ridiculous (imo) that a teacher can be threatened with losing their job because kids dont listen. You could follow the curriculum perfectly but if you have a couple of ignorant twats in your class who simply dont want to listen, you can be penalized for it? Unfair.

Oh don't get me wrong here: I agree re the few ignorant twat students - but that's not the main premise of the strike action:- and apart from which: that's not entirely down to the government - that's all to do with poor and ineffective managment of the school in question in how they address these types of idiot students (same as they same type are in jobs). It's bad managment - at all levels.

However, the main premise of the strike is financially related in respect of pension deals and a not altogether unrealistic tightening of financial belts - on salaries and in pension contributions being made - as well as roles being altered. That happens in any job: it's called changes in job description - and in most cases: it's entirely legal - you have the choice to accept those changed or not. Very rarely are such changes made to the point that they are unacceptable to people: and when they are, they tend to have been made to 'force out' the driftwood.

[Kizzy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teachers-vote-for-series-of-strikes-this-summer-over-pay-rates-and-pensions-7627009.html
QUOTE:
NUT members threatening regional days of action throughout England and Wales over increased pension contributions – which will see them facing cuts in their take-home pay for the first time in 80 years from this month – and plans to raise the pension age to 67.

Working harder , for less money, paying more in contributions , for much longer....
I call that pretty unacceptable.

[Livia]

Good point vicky, There is too much finger pointing at teachers more emphasis needs to be on reforming the failing system we have, and having stricter rules on disapline.
Teachers are scared of the students in some areas.

As you've said, using several hundred words, this strike is about increased pension contributions and doesn't really have anything to do with 'discipline'.

[Livia]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teachers-vote-for-series-of-strikes-this-summer-over-pay-rates-and-pensions-7627009.html
QUOTE:
NUT members threatening regional days of action throughout England and Wales over increased pension contributions – which will see them facing cuts in their take-home pay for the first time in 80 years from this month – and plans to raise the pension age to 67.

Working harder , for less money, paying more in contributions , for much longer....
I call that pretty unacceptable.

I call it "what everyone else in the real world is having to do".

[Kizzy]

As you've said, using several hundred words, this strike is about increased pension contributions and doesn't really have anything to do with 'discipline'.
Pensions are the main issue...However they are not the ONLY issue.

[Kizzy]

I call it "what everyone else in the real world is having to do".

I call it an assault on those who educate the next generation.
Who will be the next the government target ...the 999 services is my guess, who will be the next to strike I wonder?
Further feelings of the union on Micheal Gove...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/apr/08/teachers-union-leader-attacks-michael-gove

[Kizzy]

Further to the attack on pensions and government pressures on performance, the NUT are now to strike if faced with local payand performance related pay.
QUOTE:
The education secretary, Michael Gove, has asked the School Teachers' Review Body – which deals with pay and conditions – to look at the possibilities for making pay more "market-facing" and how to "strengthen the link" between pay and performance.

How will this work...Who will want to work in these underperforming schools?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/apr/09/teachers-vote-strike-local-pay

[Pyramid*]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teachers-vote-for-series-of-strikes-this-summer-over-pay-rates-and-pensions-7627009.html
QUOTE:
NUT members threatening regional days of action throughout England and Wales over increased pension contributions – which will see them facing cuts in their take-home pay for the first time in 80 years from this month – and plans to raise the pension age to 67.

Working harder , for less money, paying more in contributions , for much longer....
I call that pretty unacceptable.


Already addressed several pages ago and almost 80 odd posts back ...- but one of thoses ones that you conveniently didn't want to address.


(http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5067084&postcount=68)http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5067084&postcount=68

In this economic climate - one of the unions, NUT I think it was, revealed that the monthly wage cut which will show in wage packets next month is an average of £30 per month - they also quoted that it was the first time since 1930 , that public sectors had to take a 'cut' in salary. First since 1930 !!!!

(http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5067084&postcount=68)

[Kizzy]

Already addressed several pages ago and almost 80 odd posts back ...- but one of thoses ones that you conveniently didn't want to address.



What is your point?...That was during the depression.
Are you suggesting we are in a depression now?...If so do you not feel it odd that tax relief be given to high earners during a depression?...I do