Dad makes 8 year old daughter wear 'I steal' sign...

[Ammi]

....over reaction or good parenting?

Dad Montrail White from Illinois, was determined to prove a point when he found out his eight-year-old daughter Amiyah had been stealing.

He fashioned a sign that said 'I like to steal from others and lie about it' and made her wear it around her neck. In front of her school friends.

He sent her to High Mount Elementary School wearing the sign, and forced her to stand in the car park while her friends and teachers went into school.

While Montrail claims he just wanted her to understand what she did was wrong, the school wasn't having any of it, and called the police, who ordered him off the property.

Claiming Montrail had sworn loudly 15 times, High Mount School Superintendent Michael Brink told KSDK: "It's his right to discipline his child how he sees fit, within reason.

"Our concern is he's trying to do it in the middle of a very, very busy parking lot while screaming profanities."

Montrail and wife Melissa say the school intervened in their disciplining Amiyah

"Here I am trying to teach my daughter right from wrong and there isn't anything I can really do because a police officer yelled at her daddy and threatened to lock him up," said Montrail.

"I'd rather have this now than have something in the paper later about my daughter that's worse. I'd do it again tomorrow."

Poor Amiyah, who wants to be a nurse, says she understands why her dad did what he did, saying: "He did it because he loved me. He doesn't want me to end up in jail when I'm older. He wants me to have a good future."

[Jake.]

Lets me guess, Americans? Even if not, a good telling off should do and I find what he did to be an overreaction.

[joeysteele]

8 years of age is too young to be branded like this. I don't obviously agree with her stealing but this is not a way to deal with things.
It is actually more like abuse of his daughter,it should be seen as that and he should be in trouble for it.

[Kazanne]

This is wrong,8 years old?maybe he would be better finding out WHY she stole and deal with it privately,this could lead to the child being taunted at school,stupid man,some people just love that power to humiliate.

[thesheriff443]

This is wrong,8 years old?maybe he would be better finding out WHY she stole and deal with it privately,this could lead to the child being taunted at school,stupid man,some people just love that power to humiliate.

i agree
he should have a sign around his neck while he is tied naked to a interstate sign:joker:

[Ninastar]

Don't really see the problem with it. At least he isn't trying to justify what his daughter did, like a lot of parents do when their kids do something bad

[Livia]

What a horrible man. I don't know much about parenting but treating an eight year old like that is barbaric. She'll hate him when she's older and he'll wonder why.

[thesheriff443]

Don't really see the problem with it. At least he isn't trying to justify what his daughter did, like a lot of parents do when their kids do something bad

its like having a child who wets the bed then you send them to school with a sign around their neck,bed wetter!

[Kazanne]

Don't really see the problem with it. At least he isn't trying to justify what his daughter did, like a lot of parents do when their kids do something bad

No one is justifying what she did,he could have dealt with it privately NOT humiliated her in front of her whole school etc.stealing is wrong,but so is child abuse,which this is bordering on.

[Ninastar]

No one is justifying what she did,he could have dealt with it privately NOT humiliated her in front of her whole school etc.stealing is wrong,but so is child abuse,which this is bordering on.

I think it's different, this kid didn't just do something bad, she essentially broke the law. People go to prison for stealing, imagine if she was older. I'm not going to say that what he did was right - there are so many other things he could have done, but I will say that I don't think it's that bad. She needed to learn a lesson and I'm sure she has now.

[thesheriff443]

iv said this before two wrongs dont make a right,
with no disrespect to other members,you have to be a parent to fully gage the implications of her dads actions.

[Marc]

She may be young, but surely it will stop her from doing it in the future?

He's doing it for all the good reasons, can't blame him for wanting to bring his kid up with the right beliefs and to discipline them the way he see's fit. She's his child, he's responsible for making sure she doesn't grow up to be one of those we dislike to much in society nowadays, if he never intervened and just let her to continue committing crimes you'd all probably blame the parents first anyway.

[thesheriff443]

she is a kid,as kids we all do stupid things
he is a parent and has done a stupid thing,that will stay with his child.

[Flamingjoe]

This is disgusting, what he did may scar her for life.

[Kazanne]

She may be young, but surely it will stop her from doing it in the future?

He's doing it for all the good reasons, can't blame him for wanting to bring his kid up with the right beliefs and to discipline them the way he see's fit. She's his child, he's responsible for making sure she doesn't grow up to be one of those we dislike to much in society nowadays, if he never intervened and just let her to continue committing crimes you'd all probably blame the parents first anyway.

he may well be doing it for the right reasons but surely something less public could have been her punishment,this kid could now be bullied through her life at school because of this,imo it's wrong.

[Niamh.]

What a horrible man. I don't know much about parenting but treating an eight year old like that is barbaric. She'll hate him when she's older and he'll wonder why.

This.

I'm all for disciplining children and teaching them how to behave appropriately but she's only 8 years old (same age as my son actually) I think it was a bit extreme and humiliating for that kid.

[Livia]

I think it's different, this kid didn't just do something bad, she essentially broke the law. People go to prison for stealing, imagine if she was older. I'm not going to say that what he did was right - there are so many other things he could have done, but I will say that I don't think it's that bad. She needed to learn a lesson and I'm sure she has now.

Yes, she has learned a lesson. This eight year old learned that the male role model in her life, the one that's supposed to love and protect her, the one she's supposed to look up to, is entitled to humiliate her as though she's nothing. That's a lesson that'll stick.

[Niall]

Thats just nasty tbh. She's just a little kid. To force her to stand in front of her friends and wear a sign like that is just cruel.

[Roy Mars III]

good parenting

[Shaun]

let's face it, he's an awful parent for naming his child 'Amiyah'

[thesheriff443]

let's face it, he's an awful parent for naming his child 'Amiyah'

lol:joker:

[Niamh.]

let's face it, he's an awful parent for naming his child 'Amiyah'

Can you blame him really for naming her after Ammi?

[Strictly Jake]

he wasnt exactly showing a good example himself. Swearing in a kids car park. Thats also a wrong thing to do. He should have to wear a sign in a busy shopping centre that says I must not swear. However I do think it was appropriate to discipline the child but not this way

[Ammi]

..He could have confiscated something precious of his daughters..so she's aware of how it feels to have something taken away..and maybe asked a police officer to talk to her too..instead of having her watch the police order him off the premises..
..I don't think this was a 'calm' and well thought out thing..if he was 'screaming profanities'
....lovely role model

[MTVN]

She was probably only stealing a few penny sweets

[Ammi]

..maybe she stole his beer

[Vanessa]

Sounds out of order to me. I'm all for discipline, but this is humiliation.

[Harry!]

Reminds me of the father who was outraged at his daughter, then shot her laptop. This is insane.

[Vanessa]

Reminds me of the father who was outraged at his daughter, then shot her laptop. This is insane.

I can't believe there are people who do that! Omg!

[Locke.]

Reminds me of the father who was outraged at his daughter, then shot her laptop. This is insane.

That guy was a hero.

This one isn't.

[Jack_]

Pathetic. Humiliating your own daughter...fantastic parenting.

And the dad who shot his daughter's laptop was an aggressive, power obsessed moron.

[Vanessa]

Pathetic. Humiliating your own daughter...fantastic parenting.

And the dad who shot his daughter's laptop was an aggressive, power obsessed moron.

Agreed! Some people should never have kids.

[*mazedsalv**]

Out of order IMO. Maybe a different story if the child was aged 13 or over as they at that time will understand not to do those things. At 8 years old is too young to do that. As someone said, it's as if she wet the bed and the father would let her wear one saying "I wet the bed" i public... and then she would be bullied.

I understand what he was trying to do and he didn't want his daughter to steal obviously, BUT publicly is out of order.

Agreed about the dad shooting his daughters laptop, with a father like that and using guns like that, no wonder; he's too blame if his daughter ends up in a state. Rebelling would be the last of his problems.

[joeysteele]

Sounds out of order to me. I'm all for discipline, but this is humiliation.

That is exactly what it is Vanessa, public humiliation too, totally out of order as you said. He should be in trouble for this in my view, I really do see this as abusing the child,she is only 8.

[lostalex]

well, she does steal...

i think it's fair to warn the community, don't trust your valuable items around her...

[nicole_burks]

I mean I agree with the whole not stealing thing but public humiliation is not the way to go, imo.

I mean what about that guy who put a bullet through his daughters laptop and posted it on fb?

[Ammi]

..I think with the laptop father..he just tried to be cool and clever...idiot

..but with this one..I think it's a case of...'I'm bigger than you so I can do whatever I want..'...bully

..parenting by humiliation is never a good move..it staggers me that these people get any sense of satisfaction from it..or think that what they're doing is right

[nicole_burks]

I mean he could have used better disciplinary action rather than humiliating her. She's only 8 years old.

I think that maybe they could have done something like grounded her and made her not be able to hang out with friends? :shrug:

[Pyramid*]

Kids are kids - and this is no way to discipline a child. In fact, I'd say it was bordering on abuse and I wonder if social services investigated what other methods of discipline this guy uses on an 8 year old child.

It's barbaric, sick, and disgusting.

[Pyramid*]

..I think with the laptop father..he just tried to be cool and clever...idiot

..but with this one..I think it's a case of...'I'm bigger than you so I can do whatever I want..'...bully

..parenting by humiliation is never a good move..it staggers me that these people get any sense of satisfaction from it..or think that what they're doing is right


I think there is no correlelation between the two - this vs the laptop father. For a start - the age difference, and the father effectively used fire to fight fire with a daughter who is fast approaching adulthood and was of age to be working. In my mind, that can never be compared to an 8 year old child.

[joeysteele]

Kids are kids - and this is no way to discipline a child. In fact, I'd say it was bordering on abuse and I wonder if social services investigated what other methods of discipline this guy uses on an 8 year old child.

It's barbaric, sick, and disgusting.

I totally agree, I have said in my posts I see this as abusing his child, it is in fact publicly abusing her too.
The other point you now raise is if this is how he would punish his child in public, what else may he do to correct her away from the public eye.

[Pyramid*]

I totally agree, I have said in my posts I see this as abusing his child, it is in fact publicly abusing her too.
The other point you now raise is if this is how he would punish his child in public, what else may he do to correct her away from the public eye.




Of course it may have been a one off 'lost the plot' moment - but I always feel unsettled with things like this - and I'd far rather it was looked into than not. What goes on behind closed doors and all that.......

[thesheriff443]

you only have to watch the jerry springer show to know whats going on behind those doors.

[Ammi]

Yes I agree with you Pyra..I mentioned the laptop father simply because several other posters had referred to that incident..but imo the two are totally different...although I do personally feel they are both representative of bad parenting..but that's just my opinion..I respect that others disagree (with the laptop in particular)
I think the article did use the word 'abuse' in the headline..but I think I left it out..as I'm not sure whether it applies here are not..but it certainly could be debated..as bad parenting can and is damaging to a child..and therefore could be classed as 'abusive'
..and yes it does make you wonder how he parents behind closed doors..maybe this has caused some investigating..I'll see if I can find anymore links

[Pyramid*]

Yes I agree with you Pyra..I mentioned the laptop father simply because several other posters had referred to that incident..but imo the two are totally different...although I do personally feel they are both representative of bad parenting..but that's just my opinion..I respect that others disagree (with the laptop in particular)
I think the article did use the word 'abuse' in the headline..but I think I left it out..as I'm not sure whether it applies here are not..but it certainly could be debated..as bad parenting can and is damaging to a child..and therefore could be classed as 'abusive'
..and yes it does make you wonder how he parents behind closed doors..maybe this has caused some investigating..I'll see if I can find anymore links


I know there were lots of for/against the laptop father - and I know why you raised it - because your own feelings are as valid as anyone elses on the matter - I totally get 'where you were coming from'.

No child should be publically humiliated in this manner - far less by a parent - a person that they are meant to trust implicity and 'supposedly' unconditionally.

As I say: it could have been a one-of moment of 'red mist' on the fathers part - but I always get that 'gut feeling' when I read these things: how else does he 'control' this little girl / siblings/ wife etc out of public view? Could be nothing to it - but I'd far rather it was checked out than left. Some could say it's a case of ''making mountains out of molehills'' - I personally would always prefer to be left with egg on my face than being wrong - and having a child go through all sorts that no one was aware of.

[Ammi]

I can't find anything else on that particular case..but it doesn't appear to be a 'one off' as a few others have come up. One involves a 15 year old girl whose mother had a Tsgirt made stating that she was a thief and was made to wear it everywhere in public..even though the law had already punished her for a single shoplifting incident.
There's also this one..from the 'expert' point of view....
(apologies for the length of it)

A MOTHER who made her child wear a sign saying he is a thief around Townsville could be pushing him towards a life of crime, experts say.

Earlier this morning The Townsville Bulletin reported that the boy, thought to be 10-years-old, had been forced to wear a sign saying “Do not trust me. I will steal from you as I am a thief" and Shrek ears as a form of public punishment.

But the University of Queensland's Dr Alina Morawska, who assists with the Triple P Positive Parenting Program, said that by making the boy stand out, he may end up associating with the wrong crowd.

“Sometimes when children are ostracised by their peers that can make them feel bad, and they can fall into another peer group that could make them more likely to engage in that bad behaviour in the future,” she said.

“There’s certainly a benefit to children being helped to learn their responsibilities and make restitution or apologise if it’s appropriate, but doing such a thing in a very public way doesn’t necessarily achieve that outcome.”

She added that if other children associate him as the boy with the sign around his neck, it would be a very hard reputation to shake and could cause isolation.

“I think parents should be teaching the child right from the beginning and encouraging them to ask for things if they need them.

“For punishment, paying the money back or doing additional chores to earn towards the item that was stolen would be appropriate.”

Prominent child psychologist Dr Michael Carr-Gregg said humiliating the child would not work and could spark "revenge fantasies".

“You don’t humiliate the kid,’’ he told ABC Radio this morning.

“They’ll think about how they are basically going to get revenge for the humiliation.’’

He said this kind of punishment was pointless as there was probably an underlying psychological issue with the child.

“By and large we know these kinds of techniques don’t work,’’ he said.

He said taking away electronic privileges or grounding was more effective.

The boy spent almost an hour on Sunday near a popular waterpark in Townsville while his family ate lunch nearby, The Townsville Bulletin reported.

Witness Diane Mayers was so "horrified" when she saw the boy she contacted Child Safety Services to intervene.

Ms Mayers, who worked with the department in the past, said any long-term effects of public humiliation would have been much worse than physical abuse

[Pyramid*]

I can't find anything else on that particular case..but it doesn't appear to be a 'one off' as a few others have come up. One involves a 15 year old girl whose mother had a Tsgirt made stating that she was a thief and was made to wear it everywhere in public..even though the law had already punished her for a single shoplifting incident.
There's also this one..from the 'expert' point of view....
(apologies for the length of it)

A MOTHER who made her child wear a sign saying he is a thief around Townsville could be pushing him towards a life of crime, experts say.

Earlier this morning The Townsville Bulletin reported that the boy, thought to be 10-years-old, had been forced to wear a sign saying “Do not trust me. I will steal from you as I am a thief" and Shrek ears as a form of public punishment.

But the University of Queensland's Dr Alina Morawska, who assists with the Triple P Positive Parenting Program, said that by making the boy stand out, he may end up associating with the wrong crowd.

“Sometimes when children are ostracised by their peers that can make them feel bad, and they can fall into another peer group that could make them more likely to engage in that bad behaviour in the future,” she said.

“There’s certainly a benefit to children being helped to learn their responsibilities and make restitution or apologise if it’s appropriate, but doing such a thing in a very public way doesn’t necessarily achieve that outcome.”

She added that if other children associate him as the boy with the sign around his neck, it would be a very hard reputation to shake and could cause isolation.

“I think parents should be teaching the child right from the beginning and encouraging them to ask for things if they need them.

“For punishment, paying the money back or doing additional chores to earn towards the item that was stolen would be appropriate.”

Prominent child psychologist Dr Michael Carr-Gregg said humiliating the child would not work and could spark "revenge fantasies".

“You don’t humiliate the kid,’’ he told ABC Radio this morning.

“They’ll think about how they are basically going to get revenge for the humiliation.’’

He said this kind of punishment was pointless as there was probably an underlying psychological issue with the child.

“By and large we know these kinds of techniques don’t work,’’ he said.

He said taking away electronic privileges or grounding was more effective.

The boy spent almost an hour on Sunday near a popular waterpark in Townsville while his family ate lunch nearby, The Townsville Bulletin reported.

Witness Diane Mayers was so "horrified" when she saw the boy she contacted Child Safety Services to intervene.

Ms Mayers, who worked with the department in the past, said any long-term effects of public humiliation would have been much worse than physical abuse


I realise this is only one person's POV - but it happens to be one that I share.

[Z]

This is pretty crazy, wonder if she'll learn the right lesson from all of this?

[Marc]

Probably

[Kizzy]

I don't agree with this punishment...Kids are cruel and she will forever be branded a thief at school now thanks to the misguided 'parenting' of her father. I can see he meant to shock her into never stealing again.
There are many other ways of teaching your young daughter that stealing is wrong this is just unbelievably extreme.
Im not sure that public humiliation is any worse than physical abuse, neither are appropriate to me...imo
The removal of treats, toys, early bedtimes, extra chores are more appropriate for a little girl.