Smacking Children as a form of discipline

[Niamh.]

Right or wrong?

Inspired by chinese woman beating the baby thread. I don't mean beating the kid but smacking.

Personally, I think there are better more effective ways of disciplining kids and hitting children is always wrong. Thoughts?

[Doogle]

I personally see no issue with being hit if the child is really being a pain. You never hit them hard (unless you're actually abusive) and it's just a sting that lasts about a minute for them anyway. I was smacked from time to time when I showed off and I know full well I deserved to be. Too many parents aren't strict enough with their children and they're so against kids being hit, yet they end up scared of their own children when they become teenagers and never obey them.

[Marsh.]

I think smacking may be effective with an older child (definitely not a beating). But, if a parent has done their job probably in bringing the child up then the child wouldn't do something so serious to warrant a smack. It would have to be pretty serious to warrant a smack in my eyes.

But, like Doogle said, a smack that isn't 'hard' but gets the message across that the behaviour won't be tolerated.

[Saph]

As someone with no children, I would say no, but I know how annoying children can be so I probably would hit them if they've been bad. Not hard enough to bruise them, just shock them.

I'd never hit my doggie though, thats just cruel </3

[Glenn.]

In all honestly I don't see a problem with giving a little slap on the bum, but there's a fine line.

I would never agree with outright abuse of a child but for unruly children who don't do as they are told after being asked numerous times to stop, a light slap of the legs or bum is whats needed.

[Locke.]

Yeah, nothing wrong with the odd smack every now an then

[joeysteele]

No, I don't agree with smacking or hitting children.

I obviously haven't any children yet and even may never have but I cannot foresee where I would feel it right to hit them.

My 3 Brothers are all greatly older than me the next one to me being near 14 years older,they all have children,so I had lots of Nephews and Nieces of all young ages around me,they drove me crazy at times but never would I ever have raised my hand to any of them.

[Vicky.]

I was smacked occasionally as a child and it never did me any harm.

But I dont think I would ever do it myself. that said I have never been pushed to the limit by a child before. A light tap on the backside would probably be enough to make them stop and think about how they are behaving.

I would NEVER smack a baby though, in any way. They have not even began to learn discipline.

[Marsh.]

As someone with no children, I would say no, but I know how annoying children can be so I probably would hit them if they've been bad. Not hard enough to bruise them, just shock them.

I'd never hit my doggie though, thats just cruel </3

I love this post offset against your signature. lol

[Niall]

Wrong. You can discipline kids far more effectively without being physical. You need only watch Supernanny to see that.

[arista]

Right or wrong?



Right
so long as you are not over doing it.

[Saph]

I love this post offset against your signature. lol

:laugh2:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i was smacked as a child mainly by my dad and its wrong because it makes the kids scared of the parents imo and kids should behave because they want to behave, not because they are scared of what might happen if they dont :conf2:

[arista]

"I was smacked occasionally as a child and it never did me any harm. "


Bang On Right Vicky

[Samuel.]

Wrong. I can't imagine ever bringing myself to smack a child, even lightly.

It's also not exactly setting a good example, I wouldn't want my child thinking in any way that hitting somebody could be the right thing to do.

[Shaun]

I was only ever smacked if I did something really bad, and I probably deserved it. Obviously everyone's different though and some parents will abuse that.

[Niamh.]

Wrong. I can't imagine ever bringing myself to smack a child, even lightly.

It's also not exactly setting a good example, I wouldn't want my child thinking in any way that hitting somebody could be the right thing to do.

I agree, there are other ways to discipline kids. You're not allowed to put your hands on an another adult so I don't see why you should be allowed to do it to someone smaller than you.

[MTVN]

I was smacked very occasionally when I was being a bit of a bastard and it didn't do me any harm or make me lose respect for my parents, not sure if I agree with it myself though

[Me. I Am Salman]

A little slap on the bum is fine, but only kids aged over 4.

[Marc]

I was only ever smacked if I did something really bad, and I probably deserved it.


This, but I knew I had deserved it. My mother kept a wooden spoon down the side of the sofa where she sat and she did hit us once or twice with it. She used to just scare us mainly, and we did stop when she warned us.

However to cut a long story short, we learned to not mess about and respect her more.... And we found the spoon and hid it :hugesmile:

[Marc]

Also, she used to scare us by saying "you wait until your father gets home!"

Used to crap myself

[Marsh.]

My nan used to put her slipper on the sofa as a warning. It was never more than a light tap, her temper more than sufficed if the kids were naughty. lol

[Ninastar]

I think that it should be used, but only as a last resort.

I've noticed recently that a lot of parent's have no idea how to control their children.

[Marc]

A little slap on the bum is fine, but only kids aged over 4.

Because 3 year olds can't take the pain and 4 year olds can?

[Tom4784]

No, a good parent should never have to resort to any sort of violence. Anyone who does it will earn nothing but the full extent of my wrath.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Because 3 year olds can't take the pain and 4 year olds can?

Omg I don't know no need for the interrogation :bawling:

[Niamh.]

I think that it should be used, but only as a last resort.

I've noticed recently that a lot of parent's have no idea how to control their children.

The thing about it is though most people hit there kids out of anger or frustration and that's not how you should discipline your kids imo

[Mystic Mock]

As long as you don't hit them to hard then I think it's alright, but I would prefer to threaten them with a smacking than actually going through with it if I was a parent.

[Marc]

No, a good parent should never have to resort to any sort of violence. Anyone who does it will earn nothing but the full extent of my wrath.

That's hard to say though, society and school is a major factor in kids behaviour and that's pretty detached from the parent's control

[Marsh.]

As long as you don't hit them to hard then I think it's alright, but I would prefer to threaten them with a smacking than actually going through with it if I was a parent.

That's a pitfall of parenting imo. Eventually the clever little buggers cotton onto the fact that your threats are empty and don't behave.

[Marc]

Omg I don't know no need for the interrogation :bawling:

:laugh:

It just seemed a bit odd that you think a threshold should be put on smacking a child :tongue:

[Mystic Mock]

That's a pitfall of parenting imo. Eventually the clever little buggers cotton onto the fact that your threats are empty and don't behave.

But that's when I probably would start doing it if they was really being naughty.

[Tom4784]

That's hard to say though, society and school is a major factor in kids behaviour and that's pretty detached from the parent's control

A child's behavior doesn't come into it, parents shouldn't have to resort to violence regardless. Ruling kids with the fear of being hurt is a terrible way of raising children.

[Niamh.]

That's a pitfall of parenting imo. Eventually the clever little buggers cotton onto the fact that your threats are empty and don't behave.

Threatening to smack them and not doing isn't the answer but following through with threats has to be done, like grounding them or taking away a toy or not letting them watch TV for a while etc.

[Me. I Am Salman]

:laugh:

It just seemed a bit odd that you think a threshold should be put on smacking a child :tongue:

Just feels wrong to punish a child who isn't even old enough to go to school :shrug:

[Marc]

A child's behavior doesn't come into it, parents shouldn't have to resort to violence regardless. Ruling kids with the fear of being hurt is a terrible way of raising children.

I don't know if you can say that tbh in fact you basically just said my mum is a terrible parent. Until we have kids, we won't know what's best.

[Marsh.]

Threatening to smack them and not doing isn't the answer but following through with threats has to be done, like grounding them or taking away a toy or not letting them watch TV for a while etc.

Definitely.

[Marsh.]

I don't know if you can say that tbh in fact you basically just said my mum is a terrible parent. Until we have kids, we won't know what's best.

Think that's a bit of an overreaction.

[Ammi]

..I remember when I was younger and say I was running around and fell over or bumped into something and hurt myself..I'd then get a smack for running in the first place...
..it never seemed fair to get hurt twice

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

..I remember when I was younger and say I was running around and fell over or bumped into something and hurt myself..I'd then get a smack for running in the first place...
..it never seemed fair to get hurt twice

lmao awww :hug:

[Z]

I was a little asshole until my younger brother was born, I've seen some of the video tapes my parents made, I honestly don't know how I didn't drive them to murdering me and burying me in the back garden :laugh: I know they smacked me on occasion (and seriously, I've no idea how they only got pushed that far a couple of times) but evidently it worked - I stopped being a brat and that was that. Again, I don't know if it's something I could physically do but then I'm sure my parents thought the same before they had the child from hell :laugh:

[Marc]

Think that's a bit of an overreaction.

I just took it as it was said to me. I'm not overreacting or looking for an argument.

I think the second part of my post is still valid, we won't know how to bring our children up until we're parents.

[Marc]

Dean knows I'm not picking a fight.

[InOne]

As long as it's not abuse I doubt it does them any harm. Toughens them up a bit, can't live in cotton wool land forever so may as well start early. Think of it as like training a dog.

[Mystic Mock]

..I remember when I was younger and say I was running around and fell over or bumped into something and hurt myself..I'd then get a smack for running in the first place...
..it never seemed fair to get hurt twice

Tbf that is harsh as children run and fall over.

[Tom4784]

I don't know if you can say that tbh in fact you basically just said my mum is a terrible parent. Until we have kids, we won't know what's best.

Sorry but that's how I feel, smacking is for lazy parents.

[Ammi]

Tbf that is harsh as children run and fall over.

..tbf it was a different era though JF..they still had the cane at school

[bbfan1991]

I think a little tap is acceptable if kids are being naughty to teach them a lesson that what they did is wrong, although some parents go too far sometimes in wanting to teach them a lesson.

[Marc]

Sorry but that's how I feel, smacking is for lazy parents.

Think you need a smack on the bum tbh :pipe:

[Vicky.]

..I remember when I was younger and say I was running around and fell over or bumped into something and hurt myself..I'd then get a smack for running in the first place...
..it never seemed fair to get hurt twice

This I dont think is right at ALL D:

Seems very unfair, you have already been punished by falling over :shocked:

[Vicky.]

..tbf it was a different era though JF..they still had the cane at school

My dad said the cane never worked in his school. Apparently the rebellious ones used to view their cuts and that as trophies and boast about how many times they got caned :laugh:

[thesheriff443]

i got caned at school ali g style.

[Marsh.]

My god Ammi, how old are you? lol jk but you come across very erm... youthful.

Anyway, that's harsh. If I bumped my head my mum used to hit the door or table or whatever to stop me crying. lol

[Vicky.]

I guess if you smack your children, in a way its showing them violence is ok. Yes its a very watered down form of violence if its just a tap, but violence all the same.

Just been thinking about this actually...gavs oldest son and daughter were always well behaved and were never smacked. His youngest was/is a little terror and gets smacked quite a lot as he simply does not listen to anything his mother says. He has been in trouble at school quite a lot for hitting other kids. Now I dont know if thats because hes bad behaved in general, or because he thinks its ok to hit others because he gets hit himself (though hit is a bit strong...slight tap on the arse :laugh: ) but its something to think about.

On the other hand his daugther has never been in trouble for violence. And his oldest has only once, when some other kid hit him so in defence he hit back and burst his nose :joker: They tried to give gavs son a detention for that and let the other kid off, because the kid who hit first bled, while gavs kid didnt. There was absolute hell on about that.

[Marc]

Just feels wrong to punish a child who isn't even old enough to go to school :shrug:

Because school is punishment enough? :laugh:

[LemonJam]

If the kids being an absolute cock, yeah

[Marsh.]

If the kids being an absolute cock, yeah

What a good way of joining the debate. lol

[bbfan1991]

I got washing up liquid in my mouth treatment if I swore when growing up and soon learnt my lesson:joker:.

[LemonJam]

What a good way of joining the debate. lol

i have a way with words.

[Ammi]

My dad said the cane never worked in his school. Apparently the rebellious ones used to view their cuts and that as trophies and boast about how many times they got caned :laugh:

..I did get the cane once..tbf though the whole class got it..we were all just messing around..it was nearly the end of term and he threatened to cane the whole class..of course we thought that was just a ridiculous threat..

..but he did..LOL

I was so worried my parents would find out..they never did

[Me. I Am Salman]

Because school is punishment enough? :laugh:

No it's just that they seem much more vulnerable and unconscious of the world around them.
-waits for your next question-

[Marsh.]

No it's just that they seem much more vulnerable and unconscious of the world around them.
-waits for your next question-

:suspect:

[Me. I Am Salman]

:suspect:

[Redway]

OK...my post on the other thread didn't get an anazing reaction, and I later did change my mind, but for older kids, deffo. I honestly don't have the energy to be ****ed about. I have a terrible temper.

[Kizzy]

OK...my post on the other thread didn't get an anazing reaction, and I later did change my mind, but for older kids, deffo. I honestly don't have the energy to be ****ed about. I have a terrible temper.

Get help.

[mrlecturer]

Firm believer of strict discipline. Nothing wrong in that.

[Kizzy]

Firm believer of strict discipline. Nothing wrong in that.

Seeing as everyones perception of strict discipline is different, thats a pretty broad spectrum.

[GypsyGoth]

I haven't watched this video of the child being beaten (and I don't intend to).

But regarding parents hitting children. I don't think it's right. However I guess I could understand why a parent might do it, like protecting their child against something that could hurt the child more.

[Jack_]

It's never right to smack a child.

Violence or any kind of physical abuse is totally wrong and as I've said in many threads, you need to try and get to a place where it's practically non-existent, and by smacking children, that to me just seems to teach a child that it's okay to be abusive or violent. What kind of a message is that? I also think it's morally wrong, nobody should be subject to any kind of physical abuse no matter what their age - it's one of, if not the worst kind of treatment anyone can receive.

At the end of the day if you can't control your child so much so that you have to resort to smacking them, you're not really that good a parent.

[Marsh.]

Get help.

I've been saying that since last July when he claimed he'd just lost his entire family in a car pileup.

[Kizzy]

It's never right to smack a child.

Violence or any kind of physical abuse is totally wrong and as I've said in many threads, you need to try and get to a place where it's practically non-existent, and by smacking children, that to me just seems to teach a child that it's okay to be abusive or violent. What kind of a message is that? I also think it's morally wrong, nobody should be subject to any kind of physical abuse no matter what their age - it's one of, if not the worst kind of treatment anyone can receive.

At the end of the day if you can't control your child so much so that you have to resort to smacking them, you're not really that good a parent.

Cheers kid, thanks for that :hugesmile:

[GypsyGoth]

Jack isn't a kid.

[Kizzy]

I've been saying that since last July when he claimed he'd just lost his entire family in a car pileup.

What?... flippin eck!

[Marsh.]

What?... flippin eck!

He's a strange one. I'm surprised he came back after he was lynch mobbed off the forum.

[Jack_]

Oh and I forgot to add, in the same sense that if you have to resort to violence during an argument, you're obviously a lot less capable of controlling your temper and in a lot of cases, probably a lot less intelligent, I think it's sort of the same kind of thing here. That considering there's many forms of discipline that can be used, if you really do have to resort to physical discipline, something's not too great.

Cheers kid, thanks for that :hugesmile:

No worries love :pat:

Jack isn't a kid.

Thank you :)

[Marsh.]

I don't like the passive aggressive tone forming in here...

*leaves quietly*

[Kizzy]

I don't like the passive aggressive tone forming in here...

*leaves quietly*

oi! wait for me...

[LemonJam]

it'd be interesting to see who was hit and who wasn't and see if there's a correlation as to whether they agree with it or not... but I wouldn't want to raid into peoples privacy or anything. idk. i feel awkward posting this. ama post it anyway.

[Marsh.]

it'd be interesting to see who was hit and who wasn't and see if there's a correlation as to whether they agree with it or not... but I wouldn't want to raid into peoples privacy or anything. idk. i feel awkward posting this. ama post it anyway.

Hi... I'm 08marsh... and I'm a victim of smack via slipper.

[lostalex]

i can remember only 3 instances where my parents used phsyical violence(spanking) as a form of discipline, and it was definitely wrong. Talking to friends later in life i found out that they had much more physical violence (spanking) in their households.

Any physical violence is always unacceptable. But it is ESPECIALLY unacceptable when the violence is directed at someone who is at a physical disadvantage and/or has no means of defense.

hitting a child is no different than abusing an old person in a care home, or disabled people.

[Kizzy]

Hiya I'm kizzy I was slapped on the legs...And I slapped my kids on the legs.
Luckily they are not yet in therapy, its about perspective I feel not berating all parents who have/would chastise their children via a tap.
Those who fail to see the line between a tap and abuse ....well...

[lostalex]

If you cannot find a way to gain respect from your children other than violence, then you have no right being a parent.

Violent parents are no different then violent cops.

[Kizzy]

Dearie me... ok...

[GypsyGoth]

I was hit when I was young, it didn't happen much.

[Marsh.]

I think a slap (a light slap) on the arse, legs or hand isn't comparable to actual violence.
I don't know whether it's vastly different in America, but to compare them to violent cops is an overreaction.
Unless, you're referring only to those who literally fight with their children.

[Mrluvaluva]

I was smacked as a child. Had the belt used. Had the cane at school on many occasions. I don't necessarily agree with it though. Although I definitely do not agree with using a belt...

It has been said that the cane, for instance, was a deterrent, and the threat of it created better discipline, as kids were afraid of it. I don't think that was entirely true for some, and it definitely depends on a persons way of thinking. Some might be **** scared of said punishment, but others would not be arsed (excuse pun). It never worked as a deterrent for me, it just made me more rebellious. Yet on another child, it would have had a very different effect.

[InOne]

If you cannot find a way to gain respect from your children other than violence, then you have no right being a parent.

Violent parents are no different then violent cops.

You go on like they're beating them to within an inch of their life or something.

[lostalex]

You go on like they're beating them to within an inch of their life or something.

well to a child it feels that way. and it undermines a parent's athority imo, because usually when a parent get's violent it shows the child that the parents are losing control. if a parent can't hold themselves to a certain standard then how can they demand children do?

[lostalex]

A child should not do the right thing just because they afraid of violence.
A child should do the right thing because they have been taught that it's the right thing to do.

[Kizzy]

He may be extracting the urine a bit I feel inone?

[InOne]

well to a child it feels that way. and it undermines a parent's athority imo, because usually when a parent get's violent it shows the child that the parents are losing control. if a parent can't hold themselves to a certain standard then how can they demand children do?

Plenty of children have been hit and they don't turn out to be violent maniacs. And the ones that did would've probably turned out like that anyway

[lostalex]

He may be extracting the urine a bit I feel inone?

i'm not.

[lostalex]

Plenty of children have been hit and they don't turn out to be violent maniacs. And the ones that did would've probably turned out like that anyway

No, not all, but most. It's been proven in study after study that children that experience violence in childhod are more likely to be violent adults. That's a fact. NO debate at all about that.

[lostalex]

You learn how to be a person from your parents. If you learn violence from your parents, you will probably be a violent parent. fact. period. full stop. In the same way that men who see their fathers abusing their mother are much more liking to abuse their own wives, and doaughters who see their mother being abused are much more likely to be beaten by their own husbands. It's true.

It's a cycle.

[Kizzy]

No, not all, but most. It's been proven in study after study that children that experience violence in childhod are more likely to be violent adults. That's a fact. NO debate at all about that.

What was considered violence in this study?...

[Mrluvaluva]

No, not all, but most. It's been proven in study after study that children that experience violence in childhod are more likely to be violent adults. That's a fact. NO debate at all about that.

What do you class as violence? Does a tap on the hand equate to violence say?

[InOne]

You learn how to be a person from your parents. If you learn violence from your parents, you will probably be a violent parent. fact. period. full stop.

Absolute nonsense. If that was the case then all our parents and grandparents would be violent and they came from a lot tougher generation than us. It all depends on the person at the end of the day.

[Jords]

I got occasionally smacked and turned out decent but I dont think I could do it myself. Admittingly I think its a thoughless method but sometimes it does need to be used as a last resort (nothing before!)

[lostalex]

If you don't know what violence is then i suspect you have some very supressed emotions about it.

Acting out physically against another human being is violence. People who use force instead of words, that is violence.

[Marsh.]

A slap on the hand is not violence. The way you're going on about it is as if the children are being beaten.

[lostalex]

Absolute nonsense. If that was the case then all our parents and grandparents would be violent and they came from a lot tougher generation than us. It all depends on the person at the end of the day.

so surviving violence makes it okay? i'm not following your logic.

[InOne]

so surviving violence makes it okay? i'm not following your logic.

I'm saying they didn't all turn out to be violent people like you claimed.

[Marsh.]

so surviving violence makes it okay? i'm not following your logic.

If you call getting a slap on the hand as a child for bad behaviour and growing up perfectly normal "surviving". It's not life or death.

As long as it's not actual beatings and not a regular thing, getting smacked for every this, that and whatever then it's acceptable.

[King Gizzard]

Think I would prefer to take the ''take away their favourite things until they start to behave'' approach

[Mrluvaluva]

If you don't know what violence is then i suspect you have some very supressed emotions about it.



That is some supposition. We all have our own terms of what we consider things to be. I was asking you what you considered violence to be.

Acting out physically against another human being is violence. People who use force instead of words, that is violence.

Ok, so you consider a tap on the hand to be violence. Think we will have to disagree on that one.

[lostalex]

That is some supposition. We all have our own terms of what we consider things to be. I was asking you what you considered violence to be.

Acting out physically against another human being is violence. People who use force instead of words, that is violence.

Ok, so you consider a tap on the hand to be violence. Think we will have to disagree on that one.

intimidation is violence. intentionally causing another person to be fearful or afraid.

striking fear into someone's heart.

[InOne]

All you seem to be doing is using these extreme buzz words and not actually coming to any sort of point.

[Mrluvaluva]

You can cause intimidation with words...

[lostalex]

All you seem to be doing is using these extreme buzz words and not actually coming to any sort of point.

i made my point in my first post.

violence against children is wrong.

[Marsh.]

All you seem to be doing is using these extreme buzz words and not actually coming to any sort of point.

This. You're contradicting yourself lostalex.

[lostalex]

You can cause intimidation with words...

and that is wrong too.

[Kizzy]

intimidation is violence. intentionally causing another person to be fearful or afraid.

striking fear into someone's heart.

You can do that with words...Is shouting out as well then?...Oh I'm fecked then better phone childline myself!

[Jords]

If you don't know what violence is then i suspect you have some very supressed emotions about it.

Acting out physically against another human being is violence. People who use force instead of words, that is violence.

That is not violence. What we are talking about is low physical aggression.

[lostalex]

That is not violence. What we are talking about is low physical aggression.


if it was just "low" and "harmless" then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[lostalex]

when did i ever discount the trauma of emotional and verbal abuse? i never did. So i don't understand all the people saying "words can be violent too" i totally agree that they can!

[Mrluvaluva]

and that is wrong too.

But you say "People who use force instead of words, that is violence." And then "intimidation is violence", which can come from words. But then you say that is wrong too. :conf:

[Marsh.]

if it was just "low" and "harmless" then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Low and harmless is the topic of the discussion.

If you're talking about battering your child then I refer you to the thread about the Chinese woman.

[Jords]

if it was just "low" and "harmless" then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Its harmless if you use it appropriately as a last resort.

[InOne]

if it was just "low" and "harmless" then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

That's the whole point, most of the time it is. Not every parent who give their kid a tap every now and again for being out of line are child abusers. It's just a method some parents use and as long as it doesn't get nasty then there's nothing wrong with it.

[lostalex]

But you say "People who use force instead of words, that is violence." And then "intimidation is violence". But then you say that is wrong too. So words are wrong too. :conf:


there are violent words just as there are violent actions. and there are kind words, aswell as kind actions. I don't understand this paradigm you've created that says you have to use violence in any way. Why is any violence ever acceptable????

It's not imo. words or acts it's never acceptable.

[Marsh.]

there are violent words just as there are violent actions. and there are kind words, aswell as kind actions. I don't understand this paradigm you've created that says you have to use violence in any way. Why is any violence ever acceptable????

It's not imo. words or acts it's never acceptable.

That's where wires are crossing.

A slap on the hand is not "violent" IMO.

[lostalex]

slaping a child's hand away from an open fire, i agree is not violent. but i don't think that's what we are talking about.

Like i sad before, violence is intimidation.

[Mrluvaluva]

there are violent words just as there are violent actions. and there are kind words, aswell as kind actions. I don't understand this paradigm you've created that says you have to use violence in any way. Why is any violence ever acceptable????

It's not imo. words or acts it's never acceptable.

Let me rephrase. You stated "People who use force instead of words, that is violence.", but by your own definition, words can be deemed as violence. Just struck me as a contradiction in terms.

Where did I say you have to use violence? I think we have different terms of the meaning anyhow.

[Jords]

tbh as a kid when my mum told me she was disappointed and that she didnt want to talk to me it hurt a lot more than a quick smack across the arse but you have to change methods so they dont lose effect. A smack has quick impact but several warnings and meanings of punishment (removing toys, silence) should be used first because discipline is all to do with teaching and learning morals and putting yourself in other's shoes etc. etc. and making you a decent human being in adult life.

[Kizzy]

It kind of goes like this alex, recontruction of a recalled conversation.
Please dont do that (explanation)
mum said dont...
come on now, stop that please
(attempt distraction...fails)
away now please
away
now
right im getting cross
do as you are told please
right I'm going to count...
1
2
3
TAP!
If that seems extreme to you fine.

[lostalex]

Let me rephrase. You stated "People who use force instead of words, that is violence.", but by your own definition, words can be deemed as violence. Just struck me as a contradiction in terms.

Where did I say you have to use violence? I think we have different terms of the meaning anyhow.

sorry you misunderstood, i meant people that use violence instead of words as in, instead of logicaly explaining to their children why something is wrong or right, they just try to scare children in behaving.


imo, being a parent is being a teacher. a teacher doesn't beat children if they get a math problem wrong, they explain why the answer was wrong, and show them how to solve the problem correctly. You don't need to beat a child to help them learn math do you? no. and you don't need to beat a child to help them understand any other lessons.

proper communication is a very rare skill i think.

[Mrluvaluva]

I think we all have our differing opinions on the subject, but common ground will never be achieved, and it's one that will be debated until the ends of time, probably. Nobody has the answers, otherwise everyone would be perfect parents. As I said earlier, I do not believe that what necessarily works for one child, does so for another. We are all different. And I certainly would not be too judgmental of a parent giving a light tap to the hand of a disobedient child. I think we have differing meanings of the term of violence. If somebody had a solution to such questions, which worked for one and all, we would not even be having this conversation.

[Mystic Mock]

sorry you misunderstood, i meant people that use violence instead of words as in, instead of logicaly explaining to their children why something is wrong or right, they just try to scare children in behaving.


imo, being a parent is being a teacher. a teacher doesn't beat children if they get a math problem wrong, they explain why the answer was wrong, and show them how to solve the problem correctly. You don't need to beat a child to help them learn math do you? no. and you don't need to beat a child to help them understand any other lessons.

proper communication is a very rare skill i think.

No Teachers just hand out Sweets to the bullies and punish the good children with loads of homework.

[lostalex]

IMO opinion "bad kids" are the result of "bad parents" and more bad parenting skills won't fix "bad kids". you can't slap a child into being good. imho.

some kids might have behavior problems because they have an actual psychological disorder, but that's even MORE reason NOT to hit them, because they can't help it.

It's no different than slapping a kid in a wheel chair and telling him that he can walk if he puts his mind to it!! or beating a gay kid and telling him he can be str8 if he just believes in Jesus.

[Josiah.]

I personally see no issue with being hit if the child is really being a pain. You never hit them hard (unless you're actually abusive) and it's just a sting that lasts about a minute for them anyway. I was smacked from time to time when I showed off and I know full well I deserved to be. Too many parents aren't strict enough with their children and they're so against kids being hit, yet they end up scared of their own children when they become teenagers and never obey them.

My parents have done that before.

[Jords]

IMO opinion "bad kids" are the result of "bad parents" and more bad parenting skills won't fix "bad kids". you can't slap a child into being good. imho.

some kids might have behavior problems because they have an actual psychological disorder, but that's even MORE reason NOT to hit them, because they can't help it.

It's no different than slapping a kid in a wheel chair and telling him that he can walk if he puts his mind to it!! or beating a gay kid and telling him he can be str8 if he just believes in Jesus.

How very generalised!

[lostalex]

How very generalised!

well i don't have the time to research every single child in the world, forgive me for generalizing.

[InOne]

well i don't have the time to research every single child in the world, forgive me for generalizing.

So you've basically just destroyed your own argument :joker:

[Jords]

There are loads of 'bad kids' with 'good parents' and there are loads of 'good kids' with 'bad parents' you have such a blinkered view.

And are you suggesting that any parent that smacked their children is a 'bad' parent to you? Because if thats the case the stance in your statement if even weaker................

[Mystic Mock]

Well Lostalex is saying that most parents are bad lol.

[lostalex]

Well Lostalex is saying that most parents are bad lol.

well looking at the world as it is, i think it's a fair assessment. do you disagree?

[Jords]

well looking at the world as it is, i think it's a fair assessment. do you disagree?

Dont get confused with the effect of society and parenting skills.

[Mystic Mock]

well looking at the world as it is, i think it's a fair assessment. do you disagree?

There are some bad parents out there but I wouldn't say most, sometimes you can judge a book by it's cover sometimes and assume someones a bad parent when there not.

What I mean by that is the look of them looks like they are bad parents but there not really.

[Ammi]

tbh as a kid when my mum told me she was disappointed and that she didnt want to talk to me it hurt a lot more than a quick smack across the arse but you have to change methods so they dont lose effect. A smack has quick impact but several warnings and meanings of punishment (removing toys, silence) should be used first because discipline is all to do with teaching and learning morals and putting yourself in other's shoes etc. etc. and making you a decent human being in adult life.

..I agree..to be told you've 'disappointed'..or 'this made me sad/upset.....'
or 'it scared me when you did that because......' imo is what always worked with my children..of course that was when they were old enough to understand...I think even as adults we don't like to hear those things...
..the main thing though is always to explain properly why they have made you feel like that

[Pyramid*]

Smacking within reason (I mean smacking, not thrashing a child) should be allowed.

Doogle summed it up for me - I'll add to that and say that often, many such kid end up not to respect their parents - or indeed - anyone else.


Originally Posted by Doogle http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/blue/viewpost.gif (http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5129464#post5129464)
I personally see no issue with being hit if the child is really being a pain. You never hit them hard (unless you're actually abusive) and it's just a sting that lasts about a minute for them anyway. I was smacked from time to time when I showed off and I know full well I deserved to be.

Too many parents aren't strict enough with their children and they're so against kids being hit, yet they end up scared of their own children when they become teenagers and never obey them.

[Pyramid*]

I think we all have our differing opinions on the subject, but common ground will never be achieved, and it's one that will be debated until the ends of time, probably. Nobody has the answers, otherwise everyone would be perfect parents. As I said earlier, I do not believe that what necessarily works for one child, does so for another. We are all different. And I certainly would not be too judgmental of a parent giving a light tap to the hand of a disobedient child. I think we have differing meanings of the term of violence. If somebody had a solution to such questions, which worked for one and all, we would not even be having this conversation.


The most sensible answer in all of the thread - one size doesn't fit all - you are so correct.

[lostalex]

The most sensible answer in all of the thread - one size doesn't fit all - you are so correct.



so only SOME kids should be beaten? yea, that's so sensible...

not all kids should be smacked around, just CERTAIN ones...

i'm gonna be sick.

These posts are being made in the year 2012... seriously.

[arista]

so only SOME kids should be beaten? yea, that's so sensible...

not all kids should be smacked around, just CERTAIN ones...

i'm gonna be sick.

These posts are being made in the year 2012... seriously.


Spiffing

[Pyramid*]

so only SOME kids should be beaten? yea, that's so sensible...

not all kids should be smacked around, just CERTAIN ones...

i'm gonna be sick.

These posts are being made in the year 2012... seriously.

As long as you clean up after yourself - I really don't care what you think.

[lostalex]

As long as you clean up after yourself - I really don't care what you think.

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?
i thought the whole point of a forum was exchange of ideas. so you only care about spreading your own ideas, but you cannot hear anything else?

I believe you. but i think you would benefit more by trying to understand what i have said.

[Pyramid*]

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?


To give an opinion. I don't have to CARE what your opinion is.

Now... try to keep on subject - and Mrluva did not refer to any child being beaten as you so dramatically put it.

[lostalex]

To give an opinion. I don't have to CARE what your opinion is.

Now... try to keep on subject - and Mrluva did not refer to any child being beaten as you so dramatically put it.


sorry, replace beating with hitting, use whatever word you choose for hitting or beating, semantics are not important to me. i think you understood what i said, use whatever terminology you like.

[arista]

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?
i thought the whole point of a forum was exchange of ideas. so you only care about spreading your own ideas, but you cannot hear anything else?

I believe you. but i think you would benefit more by trying to understand what i have said.



It is with members that are Not Rude to you.

[arista]

To give an opinion. I don't have to CARE what your opinion is.

Now... try to keep on subject - and Mrluva did not refer to any child being beaten as you so dramatically put it.


Bang On Right.

[Pyramid*]

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?
i thought the whole point of a forum was exchange of ideas. so you only care about spreading your own ideas, but you cannot hear anything else?

I believe you. but i think you would benefit more by trying to understand what i have said.

Take your beef with me off the board lostalex. This is not the time or place - the topic is about smacking children as a form of discipline.

Thank you.

[arista]

No, a good parent should never have to resort to any sort of violence. Anyone who does it will earn nothing but the full extent of my wrath.


No if a 4 year old is in the Road
Yes a Smack is correct
it tells that child that its Danger.


That is Common Sense Dezzy

[Pyramid*]

No if a 4 year old is in the Road
Yes a Smack is correct
it tells that child that its Danger.


That is Common Sense Dezzy



I agree....if the child doesn't respond to being told no and does it again or continues to repeat same bad / dangerous behaviour - words clearly aren't working so I see nothing wrong with a smack on the hand or such.

[Redway]

I agree....if the child doesn't respond to being told no and does it again or continues to repeat same bad / dangerous behaviour - words clearly aren't working so I see nothing wrong with a smack on the hand or such.

This.

[lostalex]

I agree....if the child doesn't respond to being told no and does it again or continues to repeat same bad / dangerous behaviour - words clearly aren't working so I see nothing wrong with a smack on the hand or such.

and do you think it's acceptable to hit or abuse anyone else if they don't agree with you? would you hit disabled people, or hit elderly people if they don't agree with you? Why do you think that it's okay to hit children but no one else? I don't understand your logic.

you are making the same arguments that slave owners would make for hitting or whipping slaves.

You are beating sense into them? IS that the logic?

[Pyramid*]

and do you think it's acceptable to hit or abuse anyone else if they don't agree with you? would you hit disabled people, or hit elderly people if they don't agree with you? Why do you think that it's okay to hit children but no one else? I don't understand your logic.

you are making the same arguments that slave owners would make for hitting or whipping slaves.

You are beating sense into them? IS that the logic?


Show me where I said beating formed part of my opinion.........

[lostalex]

Show me where I said beating formed part of my opinion.........

sorry, whatever word you choose to use as your description for abuse and violence.

semantics again.

tell me which word you prefer to represent violence.

[lostalex]

I'll make things a bit more simple for people around here.

Would you allow Louis Theroux into your house, and would you allow him to tape you hitting your child on video for the nation to see.

If the answer is no, then you know what yu are doing is wrong.

If you really believe hitting your child is right, then i dare you to film it and post it for everyone to see.

If you honestly believe it's okay to do, then you should have no problem filming it and showing the world. go on then.

All of you that think it's okay to hit your child, film it and show it to us all, if you really believe it's okay, then you should have no problem filming it and showing it to us all.

Prove it.

[Ammi]

..there are many many things which happen in the pricvacy of your own home that you're not necessarily ashamed of but they are private and you would never consider them being filmed or displayed for others to see..the reasons for not allowing private things to become public isn't necessarily out of shame or the thought that what you are doing is wrong..

..to say someone is 'proud' of something..or 'ashamed' of something are two extremes and I don't think anyone is really saying they are proud that they have ever smacked their children occassionally or that they are proud to think that a smack would be considered occassionally..they are saying that it does happen and in their opinion has no lasting harming effect to the child because it's done for instance to show danger/safe situations to the child and it is only a tap..no loss of any restraint involved...

...I appreciate that some think that isn't something they would approve of or condone..but I think the word 'shame' is a little extreme for the views in this thread....

.and I'm not saying that some people aren't extreme in their views on discipline but I don't think that's the case here

[thesheriff443]

a good parent is not afraid to admit to giving their child a smack!
this is done when a child is old enough to no wright from wrong and they have been warned several times
a child that as never been smacked can grow up to be a murderer and vice vercer
as a good parent you try to bring your child up to be a good human being

to those that have not got children until you become a parent your not in a position to really know how you would bring up a child.

[Niamh.]

A child should not do the right thing just because they afraid of violence.
A child should do the right thing because they have been taught that it's the right thing to do.

Exactly Alex.

[Niamh.]

No if a 4 year old is in the Road
Yes a Smack is correct
it tells that child that its Danger.


That is Common Sense Dezzy



You're wrong Arista. I have never hit my kids and neither have been hit by a car yet and both are well behaved.

[Niamh.]

a good parent is not afraid to admit to giving their child a smack!
this is done when a child is old enough to no wright from wrong and they have been warned several times
a child that as never been smacked can grow up to be a murderer and vice vercer
as a good parent you try to bring your child up to be a good human being

to those that have not got children until you become a parent your not in a position to really know how you would bring up a child.

I have children and I have never hit them and they're very well behaved tyvm.

[Marsh.]

and do you think it's acceptable to hit or abuse anyone else if they don't agree with you? would you hit disabled people, or hit elderly people if they don't agree with you? Why do you think that it's okay to hit children but no one else? I don't understand your logic.

you are making the same arguments that slave owners would make for hitting or whipping slaves.

You are beating sense into them? IS that the logic?


so only SOME kids should be beaten? yea, that's so sensible...

not all kids should be smacked around, just CERTAIN ones...

i'm gonna be sick.

These posts are being made in the year 2012... seriously.

This just shows you are not paying attention whatsoever. You've taken everything being said and overdramatised them to the max. Hitting people because they don't agree with you? Where on earth have you read that? Twisted everything, like you usually do. Do you take drama classes or something?

We've made it clear time after time to you that we are talking about smacking a child on the hand or legs, not BEATING them. Jump down off your pedestal, it's not flattering.

[Mrluvaluva]

and do you think it's acceptable to hit or abuse anyone else if they don't agree with you? would you hit disabled people, or hit elderly people if they don't agree with you? Why do you think that it's okay to hit children but no one else? I don't understand your logic.

you are making the same arguments that slave owners would make for hitting or whipping slaves.

You are beating sense into them? IS that the logic?

It's not about chastising a child because they disagree with you, it's about teaching right from wrong. I personally hate it, say for instance, you are in a supermarket, and a child is being a pain, and the parent whacks them one, hard. That is out of their own short temper, and maybe not the best way to react. It's about teaching by association, if you like. It's not up to us though to decide for other people. There is no right or wrong (unless it is extreme), only our opinions. Everyone has conflicting views, and everybody is different.

Parenthood is a learning process also...

[Niamh.]

It's not about chastising a child because they disagree with you, it's about teaching right from wrong. I personally hate it, say for instance, you are in a supermarket, and a child is being a pain, and the parent whacks them one, hard. That is out of their own short temper, and maybe not the best way to react. It's about teaching by association, if you like. It's not up to us though to decide for other people. There is no right or wrong (unless it is extreme), only our opinions. Everyone has conflicting views, and everybody is different.

Parenthood is a learning process also...

Yes exactly, that's the thing, it's almost always done out of anger and frustration as a reaction.

I always found that the best way to handle a toddler having a tantrum was just to completely ignore it, it works far better than shouting or smacking, they're looking for attention from you and even a smack or shouting is attention.

[Mrluvaluva]

Yes exactly, that's the thing, it's almost always done out of anger and frustration as a reaction.

I always found that the best way to handle a toddler having a tantrum was just to completely ignore it, it works far better than shouting or smacking, they're looking for attention from you and even a smack or shouting is attention.

Yes, but not always though. As I said, I think it's about learning by association. Whether it be by being sent to their room, taking their things away, or a light tap. The same actions do not work for everyone. Smacking out of personal loss of temper is not the best thing to do imo.

[Vicky.]

Well from reading this thread this morning I have learned that my parents viciously beat me simply because I disagreed with them at times, they are horrible parents who dont know how to bring up kids, and that I will grow up to be a violent psychopath now because of the beatings.

Interesting.

[Niamh.]

Well from reading this thread this morning I have learned that my parents viciously beat me simply because I disagreed with them at times, they are horrible parents who dont know how to bring up kids, and that I will grow up to be a violent psychopath now because of the beatings.

Interesting.

lol :laugh:

It was the thing to do at the time imo but I'm hoping that we're starting to move away from it now and realising there are better ways to parent your child.

[Marsh.]

Well from reading this thread this morning I have learned that my parents viciously beat me simply because I disagreed with them at times, they are horrible parents who dont know how to bring up kids, and that I will grow up to be a violent psychopath now because of the beatings.

Interesting.

You can always rely on our American friend to completely go off on a huge insulting tangent over something he's not quite clearly understood.

[Mystic Mock]

You can always rely on our American friend to completely go off on a huge insulting tangent over something he's not quite clearly understood.

Oh I think he understood, but I think he wanted to cause a reaction.;)

[Ammi]

Well from reading this thread this morning I have learned that my parents viciously beat me simply because I disagreed with them at times, they are horrible parents who dont know how to bring up kids, and that I will grow up to be a violent psychopath now because of the beatings.

Interesting.

..oh dear lets all stay away from Vicky

[Pyramid*]

a good parent is not afraid to admit to giving their child a smack!
this is done when a child is old enough to no wright from wrong and they have been warned several times
a child that as never been smacked can grow up to be a murderer and vice vercer
as a good parent you try to bring your child up to be a good human being

to those that have not got children until you become a parent your not in a position to really know how you would bring up a child.

Utter nonsense the last part. I don't have kids... I was a child and I was given sometimes more than a light smack - oddly enough: I didn't grow up to be an abuser to children regardless, nor did I grow up thinking hitting babies or toddlers is right, nor did I grow up to believe that a good thumping of a child was correct either.

A person does not have to be a parent to have an opinion you know.

[Pyramid*]

Well from reading this thread this morning I have learned that my parents viciously beat me simply because I disagreed with them at times, they are horrible parents who dont know how to bring up kids, and that I will grow up to be a violent psychopath now because of the beatings.

Interesting.



:D

Someone better tell wee Farrelly to stay where he/she is!

[Bollo]

I don't see anything wrong with an occasional light smack

[Niamh.]

I don't see anything wrong with an occasional light smack

Well I would assume it's not going to be anyway effective if it doesn't actually hurt the child, and I would never want to physically hurt my children.

[Bollo]

Well I would assume it's not going to be anyway effective if it doesn't actually hurt the child, and I would never want to physically hurt my children.

Fair Enough... But I got an occasional smack as a kid when I was naughty and it always deterred me from doing it again...It didn't cause me any harm but it did stop me from misbehaving

[Pyramid*]

Well I would assume it's not going to be anyway effective if it doesn't actually hurt the child, and I would never want to physically hurt my children.

If it wasn't effective for some children....some parents wouldn't do it.

Most don't tend to do it always out of temper / anger - what works for you and your children doesn't mean that will work for other parents and their children.

[Kizzy]

Yes its horses for courses, I have two and can count on one hand the times my daughter has got slapped whereas the boy.... ooooh.....Mind you since she turned 18 I have come close to punching her in the face many times :)

[Pyramid*]

Yes its horses for courses, I have two and can count on one hand the times my daughter has got slapped whereas the boy.... ooooh.....Mind you since she turned 18 I have come close to punching her in the face many times :)

It's in the rule book Kizzy that when they turn 18, you are allowed to beat them viciously into a pulp.

:D

[Kizzy]

It's in the rule book Kizzy that when they turn 18, you are allowed to beat them viciously into a pulp.

:D

Yes parents could write everything down in a 'smack book' and on their 18 birthday let em have it...
THATS for when you cut holes in your curtains
THATS for when you drew on the front door in permanant marker
THATS for going missing for 2 hours when you were 7 and ageing me 10 years
THATS for telling your brother the hedgehogs left him on our doorstep
THATS for googling tits and bums and blaming your brother so he got a smack when it was you.....

[Pyramid*]

Yes parents could write everything down in a 'smack book' and on their 18 birthday let em have it...
THATS for when you cut holes in your curtains
THATS for when you drew on the front door in permanant marker
THATS for going missing for 2 hours when you were 7 and ageing me 10 years
THATS for telling your brother the hedgehogs left him on our doorstep
THATS for googling tits and bums and blaming your brother so he got a smack when it was you.....


Am loving the 2 in bold.

When I was about 6, people having their own cars was still a kinda posh thing.... neighbours in seeing mum and dad (showing their new car). Apprently I asked if I could go out drawing the car.....

minutes later: I'm there with my felt tip coloured pens, drawing on this pristine white car.

I can't recall but apparently I got one sore backside for that one. :shocked:

[Kizzy]

Hahaha! class :D

[Marsh.]

Yes parents could write everything down in a 'smack book' and on their 18 birthday let em have it...
THATS for when you cut holes in your curtains
THATS for when you drew on the front door in permanant marker
THATS for going missing for 2 hours when you were 7 and ageing me 10 years
THATS for telling your brother the hedgehogs left him on our doorstep
THATS for googling tits and bums and blaming your brother so he got a smack when it was you.....

My cousins went through that phase a few months back. "Cheryl Cole Naked" I think was the search item. lol

[Niamh.]

If it wasn't effective for some children....some parents wouldn't do it.

Most don't tend to do it always out of temper / anger - what works for you and your children doesn't mean that will work for other parents and their children.

I'm sure slapping is effective...... I just think there are better ways to discipline then to get physical with a child. And how do you know whether most tend to do it out of anger or not btw?

[Pyramid*]

I'm sure slapping is effective...... I just think there are better ways to discipline then to get physical with a child. And how do you know whether most tend to do it out of anger or not btw?



There may indeed be other ways that may be more effective: and there may not be.

How do you know that isn't the case, that most tend to do it out of anger btw...... do you know this for 100% certainty? I don't but it is my opinion regardless, because I have friends who admit to it and who have been embarrassed and ashamed and have tried to explain why they did what they did. That's why I have my opinion.

What works for one parent, doesn't work for another. What works for one child, may not work for another.

No one is saying one way is right, or the other way is wrong: it's about accepting that other people DO have an opinion Niamh which you may not necessarily agree with - a person and will have an opinion without being a parent themselves. Not all parents are expert parents - if there was such a thing: someone would be bottling it, selling it and making an absolute fortune.

[Niamh.]

There may indeed be other ways that may be more effective: and there may not be.

How do you know that isn't the case, that most tend to do it out of anger btw...... do you know this for 100% certainty? I don't but it is my opinion regardless, because I have friends who admit to it and who have been embarrassed and ashamed and have tried to explain why they did what they did. That's why I have my opinion.

What works for one parent, doesn't work for another. What works for one child, may not work for another.

No one is saying one way is right, or the other way is wrong: it's about accepting that other people DO have an opinion Niamh which you may not necessarily agree with - a person and will have an opinion without being a parent themselves. Not all parents are expert parents - if there was such a thing: someone would be bottling it, selling it and making an absolute fortune.

I just find it strange that the only form of physical violence that our society accepts, is against our own children. I don't believe that's ever acceptable, and I'm quite happy to say I think it's wrong.

[Pyramid*]

I just find it strange that the only form of physical violence that our society accepts, is against our own children. I don't believe that's ever acceptable, and I'm quite happy to say I think it's wrong.


A gentle smack on the hand is hardly violence. To call it violence is a highly dramatic imo, and I'm quite happy to say I think that to equate a gentle smack as violence, is wrong.

I don't think it is strange. You do. Viva la difference and all that.

[Niamh.]

A gentle smack on the hand is hardly violence. To call it violence is a highly dramatic imo, and I'm quite happy to say I think that to equate a gentle smack as violence, is wrong.

I don't think it is strange. You do. Viva la difference and all that.

A "gentle" smack? Again........for it to have any kind of effective on the child it has to hurt them
I don't agree with hitting old people or disabled people either, am I right about that? I see no difference with hitting kids, they're all the most vulnerable members of our society.

[Pyramid*]

A "gentle" smack? Again........for it to have any kind of effective on the child it has to hurt them
I don't agree with hitting old people or disabled people either, am I right about that? I see no difference with hitting kids, they're all the most vulnerable members of our society.

So..you don't agree with me, is there any particular reason for you labouring your point Niamh?

This is not about old people, nor is it about diabled children. It is about young children who some people may chose to smack as a form of discipline and discussing that.

Your opinion isn't right or wrong - neither is mine. But you appear to be coming across as though you think your way is the only correct way. It's not - it is what you believe, and what some others believe. It's not an opinion I agree on, and I don't happen to be alone in my opinion.

There really is no point in going round in circles - we disagree for the reasons we both have stated. That's the way it works sometimes.

[Niamh.]

So..you don't agree with me, is there any particular reason for you labouring your point Niamh?

This is not about old people, nor is it about diabled children. It is about young children who some people may chose to smack as a form of discipline and discussing that.

Your opinion isn't right or wrong - neither is mine. But you appear to be coming across as though you think your way is the only correct way. It's not - it is what you believe, and what some others believe. It's not an opinion I agree on, and I don't happen to be alone in my opinion.

There really is no point in going round in circles - we disagree for the reasons we both have stated. That's the way it works sometimes.

My opinion is right on this, I used the example of disabled and elderly people because I don't see the difference in hitting them or children.

[Pyramid*]

My opinion is right on this, I used the example of disabled and elderly people because I don't see the difference in hitting them or children.


No your opinion is only your opinion. And it is highly disrespectful to dismiss the opinion of others.

[Niamh.]

No your opinion is only your opinion. And it is highly disrespectful to dismiss the opinion of others.

I believe it's highly disrespectful to use physical force on a small child

[Pyramid*]

I believe it's highly disrespectful to use physical force on a small child

And I respect your opinion and would be appreciative if you would respect mine, even though you vehemently disagree with it, rather than telling me my opinion is wrong. :blush:

[Niamh.]

And I respect your opinion and would be appreciative if you would respect mine, even though you vehemently disagree with it, rather than telling me my opinion is wrong. :blush:

Normally I would Pyramid but tbh It's something that I feel very strongly about and I could never say that I may be wrong about it, as I put it in the same category as hitting any other vulnerable member of our society

[Mystic Mock]

Tbf it's only hitting them to the point where they're in pain for about a minute, not beat the living **** out of them.

Also if they're being really naughty and won't listen to you then I think you've got no choice but to give them a little smack.

[Niamh.]

Tbf it's only hitting them to the point where they're in pain for about a minute, not beat the living **** out of them.

Also if they're being really naughty and won't listen to you then I think you've got no choice but to give them a little smack.

There's always a choice and there's always a better way then getting physical.

[Pyramid*]

Normally I would Pyramid but tbh It's something that I feel very strongly about and I could never say that I may be wrong about it, as I put it in the same category as hitting any other vulnerable member of our society

But you are happy enough to tell others you are right - and their opinion is wrong. That's not quite in the spirit of the forum about respecting other fms opinions: regardless of how much one disagrees with them: but if that's how you roll, that's how you roll. It seems a rather bullish way of not accepting someone else's opinion, and that's just my opinion of course: you are perfectly entitled to articulate how you feel: I however find it quite insulting that you don't respect my opinion.

We disagree and there is no point in going around in circles.

[Niamh.]

But you are happy enough to tell others you are right - and their opinion is wrong. That's not quite in the spirit of the forum about respecting other fms opinions: regardless of how much one disagrees with them: but if that's how you roll, that's how you roll. It seems a rather bullish way of not accepting someone else's opinion, and that's just my opinion of course: you are perfectly entitled to articulate how you feel: I however find it quite insulting that you don't respect my opinion.

We disagree and there is no point in going around in circles.

Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way Pyramid but I don't think you would be telling me this If I was in here saying hitting elderly people or disabled people was wrong and I can't see the difference between them, I think it's crazy that hitting anyone is wrong except if it's little children, it's a flaw in our society and I hope one day that's changed.

[Mystic Mock]

There's always a choice and there's always a better way then getting physical.

Even if taking away there stuff doesn't work? or ignoring them?

[Pyramid*]

Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way Pyramid but I don't think you would be telling me this If I was in here saying hitting elderly people or disabled people was wrong and I can't see the difference between them, I think it's crazy that hitting anyone is wrong except if it's little children, it's a flaw in our society and I hope one day that's changed.

I wouldn't be telling you anything - I'd be offering my opinion and respecting yours, even though I disagreed with it.

Like I say Niamh - no point in going round in circles becuase that is all that is happening.

[Niamh.]

Even if taking away there stuff doesn't work? or ignoring them?

Yes. And what age group are you talking about here btw, just out of curiosity?

[Niamh.]

I wouldn't be telling you anything - I'd be offering my opinion and respecting yours, even though I disagreed with it.

Like I say Niamh - no point in going round in circles becuase that is all that is happening.

Stop replying to me then, I have no problem reiterating my opinion everytime you reply, if you don't want to hear it then don't reply to it.

[Mystic Mock]

Yes. And what age group are you talking about here btw, just out of curiosity?

Well I was thinking 4 to 6 year olds.

[Pyramid*]

Even if taking away there stuff doesn't work? or ignoring them?

And then they begin to really rebel, start going around bullying other kids, start destroying other people's property etc, being completely disrespectful: parents cannot be with their children 24/7 - taking toys away, grounding them, banishing them to their room, etc only goes so far - they go to school and then start lashing out there when they do get 'freedom'.

There are many scenarios that can (and do) lead to this very type of behaviour.

guess if all children were little angels, who all did what their parents told them to do, who behaved after a spell on the naughy step, after a month of being grounded: it would be a wonderful world. Sad part is: we don't live in a world that everyone is blessed with such good children. If it's all so easy, it makes me wonder why there are so many kids who go off the rails. No one is telling me every one of those kids turned out that way all because they received an occasional smack on the hand.

[Pyramid*]

Stop replying to me then, I have no problem reiterating my opinion everytime you reply, if you don't want to hear it then don't reply to it.

That seems a very aggressive stance Niamh and I really don't think it's necessary. I'm trying to discuss this with you in a respectable manner and I see no need for the hostile reply you have given me. :conf:

[Niamh.]

Well I was thinking 4 to 6 year olds.

Anyone who can't handle a 4-6 year old without having to resort to violence against them -and they're still babies in my eyes- needs help themselves imo

[Niamh.]

That seems a very aggressive stance Niamh and I really don't think it's necessary. I'm trying to discuss this with you in a respectable manner and I see no need for the hostile reply you have given me. :conf:

You're not trying to discuss it with me though, I have given you my views in all my posts, where as your last two replies to me were telling me that we should stop because we're going round in circles. If you want to stop talking to me about it, just stop, don't tell me to stop because I'm perfectly entitled to post on this thread. That is my opinion simple as, no aggression what so ever, I'm not an aggressive person.

[Pyramid*]

Anyone who can't handle a 4-6 year old without having to resort to violence against them -and they're still babies in my eyes- needs help themselves imo


I think your perception of the word 'violence' is a world away from what some others on this thread regard as 'violence' - as it seems to be overdramatising the situation for effect, (in some of others eyes) but that of course, is only my opinion - it doesn't make me right, it doesn't make me wrong either . You are of course perfectly entitled to view any form of such skin on skin contact as violence if you so believe it to be so.

[Samuel.]

Niamh's right, psychically hurting a child is indefensible. Makes no sense for it to be seen as acceptable as long as it's a child that's getting hurt.

[Pyramid*]

Niamh's right, psychically hurting a child is indefensible. Makes no sense for it to be seen as acceptable as long as it's a child that's getting hurt.

and what about physically .... (sorry!).

I agree, anything more than a gentle smack is unacceptable. And absolutely no way should there be any real force or strength behind it. That is what I would regard as abuse.

We all have our own thoughts on it.

[Niamh.]

Niamh's right, psychically hurting a child is indefensible. Makes no sense for it to be seen as acceptable as long as it's a child that's getting hurt.

Exactly Samuel. I think it's bizarre that it's still acceptable in our society tbh, although I think peoples views are starting to change. I mean not so long ago teachers were allowed discipline our children with canes......now we think that's barbaric

[Samuel.]

I'm always spelling physically 'psychically' :bored:

[Niamh.]

I'm always spelling physically 'psychically' :bored:

spell check is your friend ;)

[Pyramid*]

spell check is your friend ;)


I know... it was just a rather futile attempt to lighten the mood a little. We all make typos and spelling mistakes on here. ALL OF US. :joker:

[Pyramid*]

Exactly Samuel. I think it's bizarre that it's still acceptable in our society tbh, although I think peoples views are starting to change. I mean not so long ago teachers were allowed discipline our children with canes......now we think that's barbaric

I was taught in school with the leather strap being a deterrent, not a cane. I still don't regard that as barbaric. It stopped a lot of the nonsense and misbehaviour.

There's only so much detention can do.

[Mystic Mock]

I know... it was just a rather futile attempt to lighten the mood a little. We all make typos and spelling mistakes on here. ALL OF US. :joker:

Yeah on one of my posts I meant to say have but accidently typed has.

[Pyramid*]

Yeah on one of my posts I meant to say have but accidently typed has.



http://www.stateofsearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/slap-on-wrist.jpg


Oh.. I actually remember getting this at school.....that used to sting!

In fact, now I think about it: the teachers used to fire a ruler from the front of the class at great speed! Dodging the ruler was the thing to so (seriously).

[Niamh.]

I was taught in school with the leather strap being a deterrent, not a cane. I still don't regard that as barbaric. It stopped a lot of the nonsense and misbehaviour.

There's only so much detention can do.

Well, I can tell you, there would be trouble if anyone raised a hand and definitely a leather strap to my kids!

[Pyramid*]

Well, I can tell you, there would be trouble if anyone raised a hand and definitely a leather strap to my kids!


Ach, we often deserved it. Didn't do me any harm. Half the time I'd not let on to my parents as I knew they'd agree with the teachers!

[Niamh.]

Ach, we often deserved it. Didn't do me any harm. Half the time I'd not let on to my parents as I knew they'd agree with the teachers!

No child ever deserves to be hit with a belt

[Pyramid*]

No child ever deserves to be hit with a belt

It was not a belt, it was a leather strap that was used on the palm of the hands.

Far as I am aware, the 'belt' was a slang term for it because I believe it originated from 'a father removing his belt'.

[Niamh.]

It was not a belt, it was a leather strap that was used on the palm of the hands.

Far as I am aware, the 'belt' was a slang term for it because I believe it originated from 'a father removing his belt'.

No child ever deserves to be hit with a leather strap then ;)

[Kizzy]

Yes psychological abuse works best anyway...We actually did find you on the doorstep, the hedgehogs left you because you were a very naughty baby.

[Pyramid*]

No child ever deserves to be hit with a leather strap then ;)

Well, seeing as I happened to be talking about myself, and me getting the strap and why I got it : I think I'm mabye, just maybe, in a better position to say whether I felt it was abuse or violent - and I didn't. Indeed, it was very much seen as a badge of honour half the time by the other pupils. ;)

Yes psychological abuse works best anyway...We actually did find you on the doorstep, the hedgehogs left you because you were a very naughty baby.


OMG. :shocked::shocked: You might have something there - I was told that I came from my mummy's tummy.

Do you think that meant she ATE me then vomitted me back up. :bawling:

[Marsh.]

Yes psychological abuse works best anyway...We actually did find you on the doorstep, the hedgehogs left you because you were a very naughty baby.

:laugh:

[MTVN]

Well, seeing as I happened to be talking about myself, and me getting the strap and why I got it : I think I'm mabye, just maybe, in a better position to say whether I felt it was abuse or violent - and I didn't. Indeed, it was very much seen as a badge of honour half the time by the other pupils. ;)


Sounds like it wasn't a very effective punishment then

[Pyramid*]

Sounds like it wasn't a very effective punishment then


Oh it was effective - when you were told that you had to go to 'one specific teacher'..... everyone else suddenly had this "You're on your own here..." Since there was always ONE teacher who didn't give a little light tap - that's when you KNEW the game was a bogey!

So yes, it WAS effective MTVN.

[Kizzy]

Well, seeing as I happened to be talking about myself, and me getting the strap and why I got it : I think I'm mabye, just maybe, in a better position to say whether I felt it was abuse or violent - and I didn't. Indeed, it was very much seen as a badge of honour half the time by the other pupils. ;)




OMG. :shocked::shocked: You might have something there - I was told that I came from my mummy's tummy.

Do you think that meant she ATE me then vomitted me back up. :bawling:

Wow... I never heard of girls getting that punishment, I used to piss my pants if my dad shouted...He never smacked me.
Mum did, but it took a lot to get her so riled ...

[Pyramid*]

Wow... I never heard of girls getting that punishment, I used to piss my pants if my dad shouted...He never smacked me.
Mum did, but it took a lot to get her so riled ...


Us Scots are tuff. LOL.

Honestly: it was seen as out of the ordinary at all. Certainly when I went to school latterly in England, it didn't happen there - though I have a feeling it had been 'banned' by then.

[Kizzy]

Having said that a couple of my mates went to catholic school.....They got whacked A LOT bliddy evil nuns!

[Pyramid*]

Having said that a couple of my mates went to catholic school.....They got whacked A LOT bliddy evil nuns!

Don't start me on Catholic Nuns and Priests........ there used to be a school in a place called Girvan - run by Nuns - and when I was a kiddiewinkle, my parents wanted to send me there.

thankfully they were talked out of it by more sensible people!

[Kizzy]

Don't start me on Catholic Nuns and Priests........ there used to be a school in a place called Girvan - run by Nuns - and when I was a kiddiewinkle, my parents wanted to send me there.

thankfully they were talked out of it by more sensible people!

OMG is that where they killed some and put them in the walls?....:shocked:

[Marsh.]

Makes me shiver that story. Is that the building they demolished and found hundreds of bodies in the foundations?

[Jack_]

Niamh is right. As am I. It isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

A "gentle" smack? Again........for it to have any kind of effective on the child it has to hurt them.

Exactly. Thread effectively over.

If it doesn't at least hurt then it's not effective, and how anyone could justify hurting anyone, let alone a child is just beyond me. It's not possible to. It's wrong and that's the end of it. And not only is it hurting them, but it's also quite physically threatening and intimidating. Sounds quite an odd concept to me and despite not being a parent myself, and at times finding some screaming children very irritating, never could I imagine myself or even want to lay a finger on a child, or even think about it.

Anyone who can't handle a 4-6 year old without having to resort to violence against them -and they're still babies in my eyes- needs help themselves imo

Well I don't think this happens often Niamh - but again I agree with you. I think anyone that condones violence, or indeed any kind of physical abuse (unless used in self defence) has something wrong with them and needs help, there's no excuses for it whatsoever and as I've said time and time again, as a society we need to try and get to a stage where it's eradicated, and by effectively promoting such action, that isn't going to happen.

I was taught in school with the leather strap being a deterrent, not a cane. I still don't regard that as barbaric. It stopped a lot of the nonsense and misbehaviour.

There's only so much detention can do.

And why doesn't this surprise me?

Niamh's right, I couldn't see you defending someone slapping an elderly or disabled person, so what makes it alright when it's a child? I remember though you condoned the actions of that man who used physical force to throw the much younger and smaller built man off of a train, yet when I asked you if he'd thrown off a woman or an elderly person, or indeed both, you didn't seem so accepting then, or you may have again simply refused to acknowledge the question. That speaks volumes if you ask me.

Either you have quite a strong dislike for children...or, you quite like the idea of a physical force and violence.

[Pyramid*]

OMG is that where they killed some and put them in the walls?....:shocked:

Makes me shiver that story. Is that the building they demolished and found hundreds of bodies in the foundations?


No idea.. I just recall it being spoken about when I was a bit older and before I did actually to boarding school. I'm now really curious!


Niamh is right. As am I. It isn't an opinion, it's a fact.



Exactly. Thread effectively over.

If it doesn't at least hurt then it's not effective, and how anyone could justify hurting anyone, let alone a child is just beyond me. It's not possible to. It's wrong and that's the end of it. And not only is it hurting them, but it's also quite physically threatening and intimidating. Sounds quite an odd concept to me and despite not being a parent myself, and at times finding some screaming children very irritating, never could I imagine myself or even want to lay a finger on a child, or even think about it.



Well I don't think this happens often Niamh - but again I agree with you. I think anyone that condones violence, or indeed any kind of physical abuse (unless used in self defence) has something wrong with them and needs help, there's no excuses for it whatsoever and as I've said time and time again, as a society we need to try and get to a stage where it's eradicated, and by effectively promoting such action, that isn't going to happen.



And why doesn't this surprise me?

Niamh's right, I couldn't see you defending someone slapping an elderly or disabled person, so what makes it alright when it's a child? I remember though you condoned the actions of that man who used physical force to throw the much younger and smaller built man off of a train, yet when I asked you if he'd thrown off a woman or an elderly person, or indeed both, you didn't seem so accepting then, or you may have again simply refused to acknowledge the question. That speaks volumes if you ask me.

Either you have quite a strong dislike for children...or, you quite like the idea of a physical force and violence.


I don't particularly care what you recall particularly as this thread is discussing young children, not a drunken, foul mouthed abusive lying fare dodging teenager - and to compare it to such is not a like for like situation at all.

I'd also appreciate if you kept your personal insults about me reigned in. You are here to discuss the subject matter - not to discuss me personally nor is it acceptable for you to personally insult me.

[Kizzy]

Either you have quite a strong dislike for children...or, you quite like the idea of a physical force and violence.

Bizarre supposition there jack.

[Pyramid*]

Been looking at the Girvan Nuns Schools...and came across this blog from someone.

School

I remember my first day at St Xaviours in Dalmelington. It was run by nuns who were very strict. I wore a uniform like St Trinians (I cant remember what it was called - Gymslip maybe?). I got the ruler on my hand for dipping my finger in the inkwell on the desk. I was only 4 or 5 at the time. The bus stop to go home was on the main road next to a barn with horses in it. The old bridge was still in use when I went to school. The new bridge was being built, it must be over fifty years old now. How time flies. My dad was a miner and we lived in brand new houses with inside bathroom and toilet. We had our own back and front garden, I think the street was called Barnsheen Ave (16).


Unfortunately, I can't exactly ask my parents which school it was as they are no longer here. I'm really intrigued now though.

[MTVN]

I don't think we should get too sanctimonious and judgemental, several of us have said their parents used the occasional light smack and it didn't have an adverse effect on them, myself included. I think I've got great parents, them giving me a smack every now and then when I was being an annoying bastard does not change that and certainly doesn't mean there was anything wrong with them or that they need help

[Pyramid*]

I don't think we should get too sanctimonious and judgemental, several of us have said their parents used the occasional light smack and it didn't have an adverse effect on them, myself included. I think I've got great parents, them giving me a smack every now and then when I was being an annoying bastard does not change that and certainly doesn't mean there was anything wrong with them or that they need help

Good post and good points there MTVN - and even nicer that you are speaking so highly of your parents.

RE the Girvan school - there appears to be several of them in the Ayrshire Area - Dalmellington, Ayr, Girvan..... and some of stories I'm reading - I'm actually quite sickened by.

But I guess that's derailing the thread a bit and I dont' want to veer off course.

[Niamh.]

Yes psychological abuse works best anyway...We actually did find you on the doorstep, the hedgehogs left you because you were a very naughty baby.

No kind of abuse is good.

Well, seeing as I happened to be talking about myself, and me getting the strap and why I got it : I think I'm mabye, just maybe, in a better position to say whether I felt it was abuse or violent - and I didn't. Indeed, it was very much seen as a badge of honour half the time by the other pupils. ;)




OMG. :shocked::shocked: You might have something there - I was told that I came from my mummy's tummy.

Do you think that meant she ATE me then vomitted me back up. :bawling:

Whether you felt you deserved it or not is irrelevant to my opinion that no child ever deserves to be hit with a belt or a strap or a cane.

[Pyramid*]

No kind of abuse is good.



Whether you felt you deserved it or not is irrelevant to my opinion that no child ever deserves to be hit with a belt or a strap or a cane.



I am in a better place to decide if punishment dished out to me personally, was in my own opinion, was acceptable, to me. I was relaying a personal experience and I think I am in a better position to comment on whether I felt that wrong or right or violent. I based that on my own personal experience. Your opinion is your opinion and I could also say that it is irrelevant to mine. That however would be quite disrespectful.


You do seem very intent on continually telling me I am wrong or my opinion is wrong.

[Marsh.]

I'm afraid you discredit your own opinion by so brazenly claiming it be the only "right" stance. It's a serious subject but you're doing yourself no favours with ridiculous statements like that Jack.

[Niamh.]

I am in a better place to decide if punishment dished out to me personally, was in my own opinion, was acceptable, to me. I was relaying a personal experience and I think I am in a better position to comment on whether I felt that wrong or right or violent. I based that on my own personal experience. Your opinion is your opinion and I could also say that it is irrelevant to mine. That however would be quite disrespectful.


You do seem very intent on continually telling me I am wrong or my opinion is wrong.

Again.........If you said hitting disabled people was ok, I would tell you you are wrong, If you said hitting elderly people was ok I would tell you you are wrong and If you say hitting children is ok...........I will tell you you are wrong.

And hitting children with implements such as belts, canes or straps is most certainly wrong, infact I think you would wind up in prison if you did that to a child today.

[Pyramid*]

Again.........If you said hitting disabled people was ok, I would tell you you are wrong, If you said hitting elderly people was ok I would tell you you are wrong and If you say hitting children is ok...........I will tell you you are wrong.

And hitting children with implements such as belts, canes or straps is most certainly wrong, infact I think you would wind up in prison if you did that to a child today.

This thread is not discussing hitting elderly people or disabled people though.

I'm not likely to wind up in any prison since I have said repeatedly on here that anything other than a gentle smack today - is unacceptable: an important point which you seem very deliberately to be ignoring.

MTVN has already clearly stated why he feels there is nothing wrong with it either, as have other. . It seems you have some bone to pick with me - given that you are soley addressing only what I have to say on the matter as far as believing there is nothing wrong with a gentle smack. I see you are not addressing any other poster who has commented with the same views as me - why would that be I wonder?

[Kizzy]

No kind of abuse is good.



Whether you felt you deserved it or not is irrelevant to my opinion that no child ever deserves to be hit with a belt or a strap or a cane.

I was joking in that post niamh...

[Niamh.]

This thread is not discussing hitting elderly people or disabled people though.

I'm not likely to wind up in any prison since I have said repeatedly on here that anything other than a gentle smack today - is unacceptable: an important point which you seem very deliberately to be ignoring.

MTVN has already clearly stated why he feels there is nothing wrong with it either, as have other. . It seems you have some bone to pick with me - given that you are soley addressing only what I have to say on the matter as far as believing there is nothing wrong with a gentle smack. I see you are not addressing any other poster who has commented with the same views as me - why would that be I wonder?

Pyramid, I'm quite sure if you check back along, you'll find that I have addressed other people besides you. Infact, I've replied to : Samuel, Ninastar,08Marsh, lostalex, Arista, Thesheriff, Mr. Luvaluva, Vicky, Bollo, The Mockinator and Kizzy.

I'd also like to point out that it was infact you that originally quoted me, I was simply replying to you so I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to paint such an untrue picture of events.

[Niamh.]

I was joking in that post niamh...

ok :hugesmile:

[MTVN]

Hmm it's not that I see nothing wrong with it exactly, I just don't think whether you choose to smack your kids or not defines you as either a good parent or a bad parent. I see it more as a case of different strokes for different folks than it being objectively right or wrong

[Niamh.]

Hmm it's not that I see nothing wrong with it exactly, I just don't think whether you choose to smack your kids or not defines you as either a good parent or a bad parent. I see it more as a case of different strokes for different folks than it being objectively right or wrong

I think hitting someone (other than in self defence) is always wrong. I think society has made people think that this rule doesn't apply to young children.........when infact these should be the ones it applies to most of all.

[MTVN]

I think hitting someone (other than in self defence) is always wrong. I think society has made people think that this rule doesn't apply to young children.........when infact these should be the ones it applies to most of all.

It was self defence, self defence against my tantrums :idc: