Sweden make forced marriages a criminalised offence!

[bbfan1991]

http://www.thelocal.se/41012/20120524

Good move:). I hope the UK follows suit!

[InOne]

Even if the UK followed suit it would still go on. All kept hush hush within the 'community'.

[bbfan1991]

Even if the UK followed suit it would still go on. All kept hush hush within the 'community'.

I agree and I know plenty of people who have had forced marriages, although something clearly needs to be done about things like this...

[Niamh.]

The Scandinavians are way ahead of the rest of world

[Niamh.]

I agree and I know plenty of people who have had forced marriages, although something clearly needs to be done about things like this...

Really? That must be awful for them

[arista]

Even if the UK followed suit it would still go on. All kept hush hush within the 'community'.


Yes that stinks

[arista]

The Scandinavians are way ahead of the rest of world


Rubbish
they are a Far smaller amount
of people.


And they have Nazi's
ready to Murder Socialists
(Also in Norway)

[Niamh.]

Denmark especially, Danish people are amazing and always happy :love:

http://www.tiptoptens.com/2012/02/07/best-countries-to-live-2012/

[MTVN]

Yeah the Scandinavian countries are great

[Kizzy]

I would of hoped it already was criminal to force a marriage?...

[Shaun]

Scandinavia uber alles.

[lostalex]

oh plz. they are just as ****ed up as the rest of us. ask julian Assange, he used to think they were better too...

[Redway]

oh plz. they are just as ****ed up as the rest of us. ask julian Assange, he used to think they were better too...

At least they have the decency to make forced marriages a criminal offense. Everyone else could learn from that.

[Samuel.]

Denmark especially, Danish people are amazing and always happy :love:

http://www.tiptoptens.com/2012/02/07/best-countries-to-live-2012/

Bit suspect all the countries being European.

[lostalex]

At least they have the decency to make forced marriages a criminal offense. Everyone else could learn from that.

I'm pretty sure FORCING anyone to do anything is illegal in the UK. Last time i checked it's a free country.

[Redway]

I'm pretty sure FORCING anyone to do anything is illegal in the UK. Last time i checked it's a free country.

You're a don, Alex. Well done for completely contradicting your own argument. I think you'll find that forced marriage hasn't yet been made illegal in the UK, as has been mentioned in this thread. Go away, learn the lingo, do your research then think about coming back to have an argument.

[Samuel.]

lul

[lostalex]

You're a don, Alex. Well done for completely contradicting your own argument. I think you'll find that forced marriage hasn't yet been made illegal in the UK, as has been mentioned in this thread. Go away, learn the lingo, do your research then think about coming back to have an argument.

yur lucky I don't report to the mods everytime time someone says something insulting to me, unlike you and some other people around here who have a trigger happy "report" finger and love to get me infractions every 5 seconds for things i say that arn't even half as insulting.

Keep on enjoying your double standards though. :)

[Redway]

yur lucky I don't report to the mods everytime time someone says something insulting to me, unlike you and some other people around here who have a trigger happy "report" finger and love to get me infractions every 5 seconds for things i say that arn't even half as insulting.

Keep on enjoying your double standards though. :)

How do you know I report you? I don't see your name in green anywhere, mate. You made a completely wrong statement and I''m pointing out the truth to you. What is the point of being on an open forum posting away if when someone disagrees with you or knows for an absolute fact you're wrong you do this? I wasn't being insulting - I don't insult people when I argue cases, certainly not over the internet. I just pointed out the truth. And I suppose it's funny that you didn't even attempt a constructive reply to my actual post you quoted because you know I'm right.

[Omah]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/11/forced-marriage-pakistan-matrimony-laws

In October last year, David Cameron called for the contentious issue of forced marriage to be the subject of a public consultation, which will conclude at the end of this month. The consultation will decide whether forced marriage should become a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment. Describing it as "little more than forced slavery" Cameron said we should not shy away from addressing the issue because of "cultural concerns".

Currently, potential victims of forced marriage are protected by civil law. They – or their representatives, such as teachers or social workers – can take out a forced marriage protection order (FMPO). The order lays down conditions that try to change the behaviour of anyone trying to force a person into marriage. But FMPOs are hard to monitor, and there is no automatic sanction for breaking them. Last November, Scotland became the first country in the UK to make breaching the orders a criminal offence and Cameron has pledged to do the same for England, Wales and Northern Ireland. But he has gone further, asking the home secretary to consider making the very act of forced marriage a criminal offence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_Marriage_(Civil_Protection)_Act_2007

The Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act 2007 (c 20) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It seeks to assist victims of forced marriage, or those threatened with forced marriage, by providing civil remedies. It extends to England and Wales and Northern Ireland -- it does not extend to Scotland, as this is a devolved competence.

The centrepiece of the Act is the forced marriage order. A person threatened with forced marriage can apply to court for a forced marriage order can contain whatever provisions which the court finds would be appropriate to prevent the forced marriage from taking place, or to protect a victim of forced marriage from its effects, and may include such measures as confiscation of passport or restrictions on contact with the victim. The subject of a forced marriage order can be not just the person to whom the forced marriage will occur, but also any other person who aids, abets or encourages the forced marriage. A marriage can be considered forced not merely on the grounds of threats of physical violence to the victim, but also through threats of physical violence to third parties (e.g. the victim's family), or even self-violence (e.g. marriage procured through threat of suicide.) A person who violates a force marriage order is subject to contempt of court proceedings and may be arrested.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/14/forced-marriage-illegal-uk

In 2011, here in Britain, the forcing of women or girls into marriage is a sad reality for thousands of people.

While the prevalence of such practices has come to light in recent years, many myths about forced marriage remain. For example, it is assumed that it is confined to certain religions; but there are Sikh, Muslim, Hindu and Christian victims. Some think forced marriage is a rare practice; but the government estimates up to 8,000 cases a year in the UK. Some assume forced marriage affects only adults; but figures show that more than half are under 16 and some are as young as eight. Some think the victims are solely women; but 14% of complainants are actually men. Some believe it's limited to certain countries; but Brits are being sent to Afghanistan, Egypt, Bangladesh, Iran and Turkey.

For me, there is one overriding myth about forced marriage: that it is illegal. In fact, to coerce, threaten or blackmail someone into matrimony is not in itself a criminal offence.

[lostalex]

How do you know I report you? I don't see your name in green anywhere, mate. You made a completely wrong statement and I''m pointing out the truth to you. What is the point of being on an open forum posting away if when someone disagrees with you or knows for an absolute fact you're wrong you do this? I wasn't being insulting - I don't insult people when I argue cases, certainly not over the internet. I just pointed out the truth. And I suppose it's funny that you didn't even attempt a constructive reply to my actual post you quoted because you know I'm right.

i already replied to you in a "constructive" manner. I said: it is already ILLEGAL for anyone to FORCE someone into marriage in the UK. THAT IS A FACT. are you too much of a "don" to comprehend that?

You were the one that decided to be a total ***** in response, so obviously it's YOU who cannot respond in a mature or "constructive" way.

Forced MARRIAGES ARE ILLEGAL IN EVERY WESTERN COUNTRY. the US, Canada, Australia, UK, all of the EU.... so i don't understand why you are acting like it's impressive that it's illegal in scandanavia. You cannot FORCE anyone to marry someone in ANY western country. that's a FACT. you can't FORCE anyone to do ANYTHING in any free country. That's what makes free countries free.

IF you don't understand that, then poo on you, but don't act like i'm the one who's ignorant.

[Omah]

I said: it is already ILLEGAL for anyone to FORCE someone into marriage in the UK.

Forced MARRIAGES ARE ILLEGAL IN EVERY WESTERN COUNTRY. the US, Canada, Australia, UK, all of the EU.... so i don't understand why you are acting like it's impressive that it's illegal in scandanavia.


From what I've read, forced marriages in the UK (not Scotland) are subject to civil law but not criminal law, so, technically, forced marriage is NOT illegal.

[Redway]

i already replied to you in a "constructive" manner. I said: it is already ILLEGAL for anyone to FORCE someone into marriage in the UK. THAT IS A FACT. are you too much of a "don" to comprehend that?

You were the one that decided to be a total ***** in response, so obviously it's YOU who cannot respond in a mature or "constructive" way.

Forced MARRIAGES ARE ILLEGAL IN EVERY WESTERN COUNTRY. the US, Canada, Australia, UK, all of the EU.... so i don't understand why you are acting like it's impressive that it's illegal in scandanavia. You cannot FORCE anyone to marry someone in ANY western country. that's a FACT. you can't FORCE anyone to do ANYTHING in any free country. That's what makes free countries free.

IF you don't understand that, then poo on you, but don't act like i'm the one who's ignorant.

Alex, you entered an argument without even knowing the facts. You clearly stated that forced marriage is illegal in the UK because we're a free country (and by the way the UK isn't a country - it's made up of countries). I told you that isn't true (and you should have picked that up from the thread as it's been mentioned numerous times). No, it isn't illegal, as I think you'll find. As Omah rightly says, if you are found forcing someone to marry and actually going through with it, you are subject to civil law but not criminal law. Criminal law is the bridge between legal and illegal. As in the UK you're not subject to criminal law as a consequence of forced marriage it therefore isn't illegal over here. Are you too little of a don to understand that?

[Redway]

In fact, for the sake of it, yeah, that's right - I believe it's very impressive that Scandinavia has made forced marriage illegal (because it is - that's a fact, dear). So does everyone else on this thread. Why are you having a go at only me but not them?

[lostalex]

Alex, you entered an argument without even knowing the facts. You clearly stated that forced marriage is illegal in the UK because we're a free country (and by the way the UK isn't a country - it's made up of countries). I told you that isn't true (and you should have picked that up from the thread as it's been mentioned numerous times). No, it isn't illegal, as I think you'll find. As Omah rightly says, if you are found forcing someone to marry and actually going through with it, you are subject to civil law but not criminal law. Criminal law is the bridge between legal and illegal. As in the UK you're not subject to civil law as a consequence of forced marriage it therefore isn't illegal over here. Are you too little of a don to understand that?

No the UK is a single country. What you call countries are called states or provinces in other countries. The UK has 1 single seat at the UN and 1 single team at the olympics, why? because the UK is one single country. If you think england, wales, and scotland are separate countries, well then take it up with the UN, not me.

[Redway]

No the UK is a single country. What you call countries are called states or provinces in other countries. The UK has 1 single seat at the UN and 1 single team at the olympics, why? because the UK is one single country.

To be honest, fair enough with that, so kudos to you (my personal flaw) but the rest of my post is correct.

[lostalex]

Well i think it would be criminal to force someone to marry, i'm assuming some violence or intimidation must be involved to FORCE someone to sign a document against their will. You cannot be married without both parties signature correct?

[Redway]

Well i think it would be criminal to force someone to marry, i'm assuming some violence or intimidation must be involved to FORCE someone to sign a document against their will. You cannot be married without both parties signature correct?

The thing is, it isn't criminal over here. Immoral, yes (quite presumably) but most definitely not illegal. What's your opinion has been absolutely crushed to crumbs by statistics, as has been explained to you numerous times on this thread. Here - where we have valid substantiation present to prove and disprove arguments - we have to argue objectively (i.e. as a definite answer), not subjectively (i.e. not as an opinion, e.g. I think voluntary euthanasia is wrong but you're welcome to disagree) and if you cannot comprehend that then I'm not wasting my time arguing with you on this matter.

[lostalex]

So you are telling me, a man can walk into a british office and violently force a woman to sign a marriage application? and there would be no criminal charges laid against that man?

i don't believe it.

[arista]

The thing is, it isn't criminal over here. Immoral, yes (quite presumably) but most definitely not illegal. What's your opinion has been absolutely crushed to crumbs by statistics, as has been explained to you numerous times on this thread. Here - where we have valid substantiation present to prove and disprove arguments - we have to argue objectively (i.e. as a definite answer), not subjectively (i.e. not as an opinion, e.g. I think voluntary euthanasia is wrong but you're welcome to disagree) and if you cannot comprehend that then I'm not wasting my time arguing with you on this matter.


Yes thanks to New Labour

[Redway]

So you are telling me, a man can walk into a british office and violently force a woman to sign a marriage application? and there would be no criminal charges laid against that man?

i don't believe it.
Well, look, whether or not you believe it, it's true. You can argue about this and take it round the houses all day but it's been proven in black and white. You have to accept that, whether or not you agree with it.

[Kizzy]

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/forced-marriage/ia-fm-protection-orders?view=Binary

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/forced-marriage/forced-marriage-consultation?view=Binary

[Redway]

Yes thanks to New Labour

It doesn't matter who put the law in action. It's still legal.

[Omah]

No the UK is a single country. What you call countries are called states or provinces in other countries. The UK has 1 single seat at the UN and 1 single team at the olympics, why? because the UK is one single country. If you think england, wales, and scotland are separate countries, well then take it up with the UN, not me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain) is a sovereign state located off the north-western coast of continental Europe. The country includes the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland and many smaller islands. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK that shares a land border with another sovereign state—the Republic of Ireland. Apart from this land border the UK is surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean, the North Sea, the English Channel and the Irish Sea.

The United Kingdom is a unitary state governed under a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary system, with its seat of government in the capital city of London. It is a country in its own right and consists of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. There are three devolved administrations, each with varying powers, based in Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff, the capitals of Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.

The UK does not have a team at the Olympics :

Team GB is an abbreviation of the official nickname given to the representative teams of the British Olympic Association and British Paralympic Association (who are officially known as "ParalympicsGB"[1] ), Team GB and Northern Ireland. The nickname has courted controversy outside of England, Scotland and Wales, who together form Great Britain, mainly from Northern Ireland Unionist MPs who feel it excludes and alienates nations outside of the Island of Great Britain.

The British Isles are made up of several overlapping components :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/British_Isles_Euler_diagram_15.svg

They are a group of islands off the northwest coast of continental Europe that include the islands of Great Britain, Ireland and over six thousand smaller isles. There are two sovereign states located on the islands: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom) and the Republic of Ireland (officially and also known commonly as Ireland). The British Isles also include three dependencies of the British Crown: the Isle of Man and, by tradition, the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey in the Channel Islands, although the latter are not physically a part of the archipelago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles

It's rather more complicated than the simple country/state analogy

[Omah]

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/forced-marriage/ia-fm-protection-orders?view=Binary

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/forced-marriage/forced-marriage-consultation?view=Binary

I think you've scooped the prize for best link today ..... :thumbs:

:worship:

[lostalex]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom



The UK does not have a team at the Olympics :



The British Isles are made up of several overlapping components :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/British_Isles_Euler_diagram_15.svg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles

It's rather more complicated than the simple country/state analogy

1 seat at the UN. The UK is a "soverign state" so what does that mean. lol if the UK wants to be called a state, does that mean you think all 50 of the American states are individual countries too??

we are playing semantics. it's boring.

The UKGBNI is a country, just like the USA, or the Soviet Union(r.i.p.) or the PRC(people's republic of china)

[Kizzy]

Ahhh....Having had a little skeg through the UK are maybe acting a little tricky on this and I agree...
Instead of criminalising the act of 'forced marriage' and risk a cultural backlash, the factors relating to the offence are already covered by current legislation...

Kidnapping
Child Abduction
Assault
False Inprisonment
Threats to kill
Public Order offences
Sexual offences
Harrassment/ stalking
Child cruelty
Blackmail

All these can be put forward as representative and carry considerable sentences...

[Kizzy]

I think you've scooped the prize for best link today ..... :thumbs:

:worship:

Fanks! :hugesmile:

[Redway]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom



The UK does not have a team at the Olympics :



The British Isles are made up of several overlapping components :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/British_Isles_Euler_diagram_15.svg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles

It's rather more complicated than the simple country/state analogy
Thank you so much for posting that, Omah. It seems Alex's entire argument was wrong, then.

[lostalex]

Thank you so much for posting that, Omah. It seems Alex's entire argument was wrong, then.

actually it's not lol, the UK still only has 1 UN seat and 1 olympic team.

please tell me what other olympic teams or UN seats the UK has...

I don't see how he proved anything i said wrong... lol

[Omah]

1 seat at the UN. The UK is a "soverign state" so what does that mean. lol if the UK wants to be called a state, does that mean you think all 50 of the American states are individual countries too??


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state

A sovereign state (or simply state) is classically defined as a state with a defined territory on which it exercises internal and external sovereignty, a permanent population, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states. It is also normally understood to be a state which is neither dependent on nor subject to any other power or state. The existence or disappearance of a state is a question of fact. While according to the declaratory theory of state recognition a sovereign state can exist without being recognised by other sovereign states, unrecognised states will often find it hard to exercise full treaty-making powers and engage in diplomatic relations with other sovereign states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states

(207, including the USA)

[Kizzy]

Feck the olympics ...Stick to the issue here please.....Do you want me to get arista in here to sort you out?....:)

[Omah]

actually it's not lol, the UK still only has 1 UN seat and 1 olympic team.

please tell me what other olympic teams or UN seats the UK has...

I don't see how he proved anything i said wrong... lol

You obviously have not read enough about the geographical and political history if the British Isles to understand how and why they are separately formed and named.

I believe that, if we throw Empire and Commonwealth into the mix, it will be totally beyond your comprehension ..... :joker:

[lostalex]

You obviously have not read enough about the geographical and political history if the British Isles to understand how and why they are separately formed and named.

I believe that, if we throw Empire and Commonwealth into the mix, it will be totally beyond your comprehension ..... :joker:


and you don't seem to understand REALITY.

1 flag, 1 country. get over it. if you wanna change it, well then send a fan letter to Alex Salmond, i'm sure he'll appreciate it.

The US has plenty of territories that are individual countries and each have their own seats at the UN, and send their own teams to the olympics, so yes, as an American i do understand what you're getting at, i'm telling you that you are wrong though, and i am right.

I don't think the other members of the commonwealth would like your implication that they are part of the Uk as a country lol, i'm pretty sure they consider themselves INDEPENDENT countries.

Last time i checked India, and Australia, and Pakistan, and Jamaica are not willing to call themselves BRITISH.

England, Wales, Scotland, and NI, are just states of the UK though, in the same way that California, Florida, New York, and Texas are part of the USA

[Redway]

and you don't seem to understand REALITY.

1 flag, 1 country. get over it. if you wanna change it, well then send a fan letter to Alex Salmond, i'm sure he'll appreciate it.

So England (country 1), Scotland (country 2), Wales (country 3) and Northern Ireland (country 4) are all one country now? Laughing my arse off. 4 in 1, yeah? Four countries = 1 country? Is that what you're saying, darling? Is that what you're saying? Please - give me an effing break.

[Kizzy]

WyNb2qDrRLM

or

rNu8XDBSn10&feature=related

[lostalex]

So England (country 1), Scotland (country 2), Wales (country 3) and Northern Ireland (country 4) are all one country now? Laughing my arse off. 4 in 1, yeah? Is that what you're saying? Please - give me an effing break.

just because you use the word "country" doesn't mean anything. they are not sovereign. they do not have their own independent governments, they do not have their own independent militaries. They are part of 1 state/country. They have a central federal government in London. Actually the individual US states have more sovereignty than the individual "countries" in the UK.

[lostalex]

Kizzy, do you actually think i'm that dumb? should i post a video of how different all the US states are? that doesn't mean that the USA is not a country though.

[lostalex]

:hugesmile:If the "countries" of the UK are actually individual countries, then please explain to me why there's such a fuss over Scotland becoming a country?? LOL please explain that!!!!

IF IT'S ALREADY A COUNTRY THEN WHY IS IT TRYING TO BECOME A COUNTRY??? PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME???

lol :hugesmile:

[lostalex]

Boring semantics. You know that the UK is a country, and that england/wales/scotland/NI are just provinces within that country.

It's a shame that the country that claims to have invented the English language is so piss poor at speaking it without endless pedantic debate over such simple words.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy, do you actually think i'm that dumb? should i post a video of how different all the US states are? that doesn't mean that the USA is not a country though.

Don't have a go at me...I don't get it either and I live here! It may be England or Britain...Who knows? haha

[lostalex]

Don't have a go at me...I don't get it either and I live here! It may be England or Britain...Who knows? haha

i'm not having a go! lol sorry, i just thought it was widely known that the UK is a single country.

[Niamh.]

So you are telling me, a man can walk into a british office and violently force a woman to sign a marriage application? and there would be no criminal charges laid against that man?

i don't believe it.

Me neither :laugh:

[Omah]

just because you use the word "country" doesn't mean anything. they are not sovereign. they do not have their own independent governments, they do not have their own independent militaries. They are part of 1 state/country. They have a central federal government in London.

Many "sovereign states" may have a central federal government - but not the United Kingdom and the Kingdom of Spain, which are devolved states, where the central government can revoke the independence of the subunits (Scottish Parliament, Welsh National Assembly, Northern Ireland Assembly in the case of the UK) without changing the constitution.

[Omah]

I don't think the other members of the commonwealth would like your implication that they are part of the Uk as a country lol, i'm pretty sure they consider themselves INDEPENDENT countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Commonwealth_of_Nations

The Commonwealth of Nations is a voluntary association of 54 independent sovereign states (one of whose membership is currently suspended). Most are former British colonies, or dependencies of these colonies. No one government in the Commonwealth exercises power over the others, as in a political union. Rather, the relationship is one of an international organisation through which countries with diverse social, political, and economic backgrounds are regarded as equal in status, and co-operate within a framework of common values and goals, as outlined in the Singapore Declaration. These include the promotion of democracy, human rights, good governance, the rule of law, individual liberty, egalitarianism, free trade, multilateralism, and world peace, and are carried out through multilateral projects and meetings, as well as the quadrennial Commonwealth Games. The symbol of this free association is Queen Elizabeth II, known for this purpose as Head of the Commonwealth. This position, however, does not imbue her with any political or executive power over any Commonwealth member states; the position is purely symbolic, and it is the Commonwealth Secretary-General who is the chief executive of the organisation.

The Commonwealth was first officially formed in 1931 when the Statute of Westminster gave legal recognition to the independence of dominions. Known as the "British Commonwealth", the first members were the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the Irish Free State and Dominion of Newfoundland, although Australia and New Zealand did not adopt the statute until 1942 and 1947 respectively. In 1949, the London Declaration was signed and marked the birth of the modern Commonwealth and the renaming to its present name. The most recent member is Rwanda, which joined on 29 November 2009.

Presently, of the states that are members of the Commonwealth of Nations, three are in Europe, twelve in North America, one in South America, nineteen in Africa, eight in Asia, and eleven in Oceania (including one suspended member, Fiji). There are six former members, four of which no longer exist as independent entities (but form part of current member states). The members have a combined population of 2.2 billion people, almost a third of the world population, of which 1.21 billion live in India and 95% live in Asia and Africa combined.

Currently sixteen of the member states are Commonwealth realms with the Head of the Commonwealth, Queen Elizabeth II also as their head of state, five others are monarchies with their own separate monarchs (Brunei, Lesotho, Malaysia, Swaziland, Tonga) and the rest are republics.

[MTVN]

I don't know if this has been posted but this is from last December: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/14/forced-marriage-illegal-uk

For me, there is one overriding myth about forced marriage: that it is illegal. In fact, to coerce, threaten or blackmail someone into matrimony is not in itself a criminal offence. This week, the home secretary, Theresa May, launched a consultation into making forced marriage a crime in its own right. I am delighted – after all, it is something I have been campaigning for and speaking out about over many years.

At the moment, legislation surrounding forced marriage is civil, not criminal. The Forced Marriage Act 2007 finally allowed courts to issue forced marriage protection orders when a victim, friend or local authority raises the alarm. A breach of such an order can result in up to two years imprisonment.

I any case there is a difference between making forced marriage illegal in theory and actually actively enforcing that law and making sure it doesn't happen

[Omah]

i'm not having a go! lol sorry, i just thought it was widely known that the UK is a single country.

It might be widely known in the USA, because few US citizens know much about the world outside their state boundaries and even fewer know much about Europe and beyond :

Of the 308 million-plus citizens in the United States, 30% have passports.

That's just too low for such an affluent country, said Bruce Bommarito, executive vice president and chief operating officer for the U.S. Travel Association.

"Americans are comfortable in their own environment," Bommarito said.

There were 61.5 million trips outside the United States in 2009, down 3% from 2008, according to the Office of Travel and Tourism Industries. About 50% of those trips were to either Mexico or Canada, destinations that didn't require a passport until 2007.

So, roughly only 15% have passports required for travel beyond North America and most of those will presumably go to the military ..... :rolleyes:

[lostalex]

It might be widely known in the USA, because few US citizens know much about the world outside their state boundaries and even fewer know much about Europe and beyond :



So, roughly only 15% have passports required for travel beyond North America and most of those will presumably go to the military ..... :rolleyes:

because americans don't need passports to travel our entire continent. Europeans might have more passports, but i doubt you'd find many more europeans traveling outside of europe.

You europeans consider it "traveling abroad" when you go to france. Traveling from the UK to france or spain for an american would be like going from new york to new jersey or connecticut.

you really don't understand that actually Americans travel just as much between just as diverse states. It would take an entire lifetime to explore just one region of the US, let alone the entire country.

I think it's so funny and arrogant that Europeans think Americans need to leave the country in order to "see the world" meanwhile how much of the world to they see? i wonder how many europeans go to the Congo compared to how many Americans? i think you'd find it's about the same.

Europeans think because they go to other European countries it makes them "worldly" but it makes them no more worldly than Americans that travel to different American states in the US.

The average Brit knows no more about the Ukraine than the average American. The average German knows no more about El Salvador than the average American.

i challenge any honest person here who considers themselves worldly to say the name of the leader of Guatemala or Kenya or even Japan without Google. All honest people will admit they don't know. but they still consider themselves more worldly than Americans lol.

[MTVN]

because americans don't need passports to travel our entire continent. Europeans might have more passports, but i doubt you'd find many more europeans traveling outside of europe.

You europeans consider it "traveling abroad" when you go to france. Traveling from the UK to france or spain for an american would be like going from new york to new jersey or connecticut.

you really don't understand that actually Americans travel just as much between just as diverse states. It would take an entire lifetime to explore just one region of the US, let alone the entire country.

I think it's so funny and arrogant that Europeans think Americans need to leave the country in order to "see the world" meanwhile how much of the world to they see? i wonder how many europeans go to the Congo compared to how many Americans? i think you'd find it's about the same.

No need to generalise, I see your point, America is so big and diverse there's not that much need to go abroad for different cultures/experiences

[Omah]

because americans don't need passports to travel our entire continent. Europeans might have more passports, but i doubt you'd find many more europeans traveling outside of europe..
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i challenge any honest person here who considers themselves worldly to say the name of the leader of Guatemala or Kenya or even Japan without Google. All honest people will admit they don't know. but they still consider themselves more worldly than Americans lol.

That, of course, is the typical American response ..... :bored:

I don't think any European country (sovereign state or otherwise) would like to be compared to American states ..... :joker:

[Omah]

No need to generalise, I see your point, America is so big and diverse there's not that much need to go abroad for different cultures/experiences

And everybody takes dollars and speaks American (more or less) ..... ;)

[MTVN]

True but I don't go on holiday for the different currency :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Time to split the differing issues in this thread?....

[Redway]

Back on topic, I think it's great that Sweden's doing this and hopes the UK follows suit. Or has that already been said?

[lostalex]

And everybody takes dollars and speaks American (more or less) ..... ;)

and everyone takes euros in europe, what's yur point?

[Omah]

and everyone takes euros in europe?

In the EU, Euro is used in 15 countries, so 14 still have their own currencies. Those are:

Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Sweden and the UK.

AFAIK, even in the UK, some Scottish banks still issue their own banknotes, too .....

[lostalex]

In the EU, Euro is used in 15 countries, so 14 still have their own currencies. Those are:

Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Sweden and the UK.

AFAIK, even in the UK, some Scottish banks still issue their own banknotes, too .....

so on that list, basically only the UK is a major tourist country. France, Italy, Ireland, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, all of the places most people travel to in Europe all take the same currency... so it nullifies your argument that America is monocultural just because it has the same currency in multiple states.

[Conor]

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2458/3659158957_7af1d9d6a4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anymotion/3659158957/)
Back from beautiful Stockholm (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anymotion/3659158957/) by AnyMotion (http://www.flickr.com/people/anymotion/), on Flickr

Scandinavia= Heaven on earth :worship:

[Omah]

so on that list, basically only the UK is a major tourist country. France, Italy, Ireland, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, all of the places most people travel to in Europe all take the same currency... so it nullifies your argument that America is monocultural just because it has the same currency in multiple states.

No, it doesn't - some former, rather large, "Eastern Bloc" countries which are now "European" are tourist destinations, too .....

Then, we "Europeans" do travel much further afield nowadays - people I know travel to the Far East and Australasia on a regular basis (and not just on business) .....

[lostalex]

No, it doesn't - some former, rather large, "Eastern Bloc" countries which are now "European" are tourist destinations, too .....

Then, we "Europeans" do travel much further afield nowadays - people I know travel to the Far East and Australasia on a regular basis (and not just on business) .....

and people i know travel to the far east and Australia too, what's your point again??

[Omah]

and people i know travel to the far east and Australia too, what's your point again??

That there is more to the world than meets the American eye ..... ;)

[Niamh.]

Omah stop baiting Lostalex

[lostalex]

yea! stop baiting me!

wait, baiting me? wtf am i fish or something?

I can take care of myself around here Niamh.

[Niamh.]

yea! stop baiting me!

wait, baiting me? wtf am i fish or something?

I can take care of myself around here Niamh.

I don't doubt that Alex but the thread has gone way off topic with this silly argument :nono:

[Omah]

Omah stop baiting Lostalex

I didn't think I was "baiting", but I'm quite happy to terminate the current dialogue, which, of course, is off-topic any way ..... :thumbs:

[Niamh.]

Thank you Omah

[lostalex]

now make him admit that he was wrong Niamh.

[InOne]

Yeah get the chains and whips out Niamh, make him pay

[Niamh.]

now make him admit that he was wrong Niamh.

Some Europeans are better travelled than some Americans and some Americans are better travelled than some Europeans.....sorted. :tongue:

[Omah]

Yeah get the chains and whips out Niamh, make him pay

Sticks and stones may break my bones .....

But whips and chains excite me .....

:pipe:

[Conor]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201947

:whistle:

that is all.

[lostalex]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201947

:whistle:

that is all.

spam.

[Conor]

whatev. That thread is full of epic amazingness. Just visit. :hugesmile:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18356117

New laws are to be introduced by the home secretary to jail parents who force their children to marry.

Theresa May is due to outline how it will be a criminal offence in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland already has a forced marriage law.

Up to 8,000 young women a year are estimated to be forced into marriages without their consent.

The new law is expected to distinguish between forced marriages where there is no consent and arranged marriages.

But campaigners warn criminalising forced marriage altogether could deter victims from coming forward.

Some say that criminal law already provides punishment for offences that may be committed when coercing someone into matrimony.

"There is already plenty of criminal law to tackle murder, kidnapping, abduction, rape and all the other evil manifestations associated with forcing people into marriage against their will," said Lord Lester, who introduced the Forced Marriage Bill which led to the 2008 Act.

He stated that the family law approach was better than the criminal process which, he said, "has not proved to be an effective way of tackling a major social problem".

Shadow equalities minister Kate Green said she supported "appropriate criminal sanctions to stop more forced marriages and protect victims".

"The Home Office needs to ensure the framework adopted is effective rather than counter-productive," she added.

"Ministers need to demonstrate they are working with victims' groups and experts on the detail to make sure victims have the confidence to come forward and are not put off.

"Also, the legal framework won't make a difference without proper support, prevention, education and enforcement."

IMO, it's a step forward, inasmuch as it sends a strong message that the law will not tolerate forced marriages ..... :pipe:

[Shaun]

Excellent news.