What do you think of the BBC?

[Kate!]

What are your opinions on the good old :bored: BBC? Happy with them? Or do you, like me, think they should be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age? Given a metaphorical boot up the backside?

Major crime number 1: The TV Licence. It's outdated and ridiculous, should have been abolished long since, only they seem to think they are too highbrow for adverts, which would bring in so much more revenue as well. I refuse to pay it, never have, and never will if I have my way.

Another massive faux pas they have made recently is The Voice. I was excited for this, but they've made a complete bollocks of the whole thing. The voting system is a shambles, and thus there is no excitement, no vibe for the results at all, as by the time they are broadcast we've already known the results for almost 24 hours. SMH. Plus by only opening votelines for less than an hour they are missing the chance of making loads of revenue. Fools.

Thoughts?

[joeysteele]

I am not happy with the BBC, they are nowhere near the leaders in programming they were decades ago.

I would scrap the TV Licence tomorrow and I think it's ridiculous anyone has to pay this dinosaur tax now in the 21st century.
It is one of the most unfair payments anywhere too, someone on jobseekers allowance or someone between 65 and 74 who likely only have at best £100 to £140 coming in every week have to pay this accursed £145,I think it is now every year,by the same token, a multi millionaire with a mansion with a TV possibly in every room also just has to pay the same £145 yearly.

The BBC should be put where all the other channels are and have to compete now,they are as a company a minority now rather than the majority they were as to transmission of programmes, people who have sky etc, have to pay a monthly subscription to that company and in addition to that still have to pay this ridiculous Licence fee to watch a TV they have had to buy,they cannot get one without BBC on it and they have to pay for the power to watch it as to electricity too.
Decades ago when there was only BBC and ITV in the main it may have been in some way justifiable but not now and for me, this daft tax on people should be abolished completely.

As for TV licensing, I and a group of other students have done some research as to people dealing with them, people who have any difficulty paying for this licence get all sorts of intimidating and unsavoury threatening letters from this Comapny too.TV Licensing is empowered by the BBC to get the fee in so the blame for that lies with the BBC too.

If I read that the Licence was going to be abolished tomorrow,I would really celebrate that and if I learned TV Licensing,the company was also to be abolished tomorrow,I would celbrate that too and not lose a single second of sleep for the staff losing their jobs there.

If,when I finish Uni, I do go into active Politics, one my main aims and campaigns will be to do all I can to get this pathetic and, in my view, totally wrong tax,that is the Licence fee,removed from peoples lives for good.

No, it is time the BBC was dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age and forced to be where all other TV companies are,competing in the real world and not handed funding on a plate.

[Pyramid*]

I might not agree with the TV licence but I pay it.

same way I don't agree with what I have to fork out for council tax given that I live alone and use very little of the services in comparison to those who live with 5 or so (all working) adults a few doors along from me; they pay an extra £30 a month more than I do.... that isn't fair but I still pay it. Further more: people like me who do pay: have to end up paying more, because of people who DON'T pay.

People who don't pay such things, simply increase the yearly cost of such bills: and it's up to people like me - who are subsidising people like you - who won't pay £12 a month for a service that not only do you receive, but actually use.

[Jesus.]

The BBC do a fantastic job. Their documentaries are renowned across the world, and foreign countries respect the BBC news/World service far more than they trust their own news.

We should be extremely proud.

[Pyramid*]

The BBC do a fantastic job. Their documentaries are renowned across the world, and foreign countries respect the BBC news/World service far more than they trust their own news.

We should be extremely proud.


Very good points there.

They do the most fab documentaries and as you rightly say: they are highly trusted the world over.

[arista]

Very good points there.

They do the most fab documentaries and as you rightly say: they are highly trusted the world over.


Yes Live in Kenya
but they played recorded film more than Live
Costing to much,
wasting my Tax Fee.

[arista]

I am not happy with the BBC, they are nowhere near the leaders in programming they were decades ago.

I would scrap the TV Licence tomorrow and I think it's ridiculous anyone has to pay this dinosaur tax now in the 21st century.
It is one of the most unfair payments anywhere too, someone on jobseekers allowance or someone between 65 and 74 who likely only have at best £100 to £140 coming in every week have to pay this accursed £145,I think it is now every year,by the same token, a multi millionaire with a mansion with a TV possibly in every room also just has to pay the same £145 yearly.

The BBC should be put where all the other channels are and have to compete now,they are as a company a minority now rather than the majority they were as to transmission of programmes, people who have sky etc, have to pay a monthly subscription to that company and in addition to that still have to pay this ridiculous Licence fee to watch a TV they have had to buy,they cannot get one without BBC on it and they have to pay for the power to watch it as to electricity too.
Decades ago when there was only BBC and ITV in the main it may have been in some way justifiable but not now and for me, this daft tax on people should be abolished completely.

As for TV licensing, I and a group of other students have done some research as to people dealing with them, people who have any difficulty paying for this licence get all sorts of intimidating and unsavoury threatening letters from this Comapny too.TV Licensing is empowered by the BBC to get the fee in so the blame for that lies with the BBC too.

If I read that the Licence was going to be abolished tomorrow,I would really celebrate that and if I learned TV Licensing,the company was also to be abolished tomorrow,I would celbrate that too and not lose a single second of sleep for the staff losing their jobs there.

If,when I finish Uni, I do go into active Politics, one my main aims and campaigns will be to do all I can to get this pathetic and, in my view, totally wrong tax,that is the Licence fee,removed from peoples lives for good.

No, it is time the BBC was dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age and forced to be where all other TV companies are,competing in the real world and not handed funding on a plate.


Bang On Right

[Jesus.]

I might not agree with the TV licence but I pay it.

same way I don't agree with what I have to fork out for council tax given that I live alone and use very little of the services in comparison to those who live with 5 or so (all working) adults a few doors along from me; they pay an extra £30 a month more than I do.... that isn't fair but I still pay it. Further more: people like me who do pay: have to end up paying more, because of people who DON'T pay.

People who don't pay such things, simply increase the yearly cost of such bills: and it's up to people like me - who are subsidising people like you - who won't pay £12 a month for a service that not only do you receive, but actually use.

People don't get to choose whether they do or don't pay these things. It's a legal requirement. I also live alone, but it's in a desirable post code. I pay extra for that privilege. If I want to save myself £30/month on council tax, then I'd move.

We are masters of our own choices to an extent. I live in a flat, so on top of a swollen council tax bill, I also have to pay management company fees, that over the year would buy a very nice small car for a newly passed driver. All they do for that money is cut the grass. Now that is a rip off. But again, I choose to live there, and I signed up knowing what it would cost me to live there.

[joeysteele]

Sometimes though people have to wake politicians up, the Licence fee,even more so at these difficult times is a big burden as well as being ridiculous.

On the estimated figures I put above in my post, someone on jobseekers allowance or a pensioner with only the guaranteed £ 130-140 a week coming in have to hand over yearly a full weeks income or more just to pay this thing. That is wrong in my book.

My Dad has always said, had people not protested and just paid the poll tax that was introduced by Margaret Thatcher then it would never have been abolished in its form.
He said people were not paying it, because they couldn't and some wouldn't but it did get rid of it

TV should be a right for people in this day and age,Politicians would be lost for instance trying to get their messages across without people having TVs.
It should be completely wrong in this present age to be forced to pay a fee for one company's channels only, on a TV you have had to purchase as yours anyway and for a channel you cannot even say you don;t wnat to get on that TV.
also looking at the BBC it's a channel where at least a third of it's programmes and transmissions are repeats anyway.

The BBC is not as great as it was and also not as relevant as it was either,in the interests of fairness it should be made to get its business like all other companies and not be taking a full weeks income every year from some people who likely only have one TV while someone who has literally thousands coming in weekly with multiple TV sets in their homes pays as much as them.
I am not getting at those people though for that,I just believe 'no one' should have to pay this ancient tax anymore,I really detest this Licence fee and the fact it even still exists in the UK.
Just what would they do if everyone actually stopped paying,like many people did with that poll tax.

[Jesus.]

Sometimes though people have to wake politicians up, the Licence fee,even more so at these difficult times is a big burden as well as being ridiculous.

On the estimated figures I put above in my post, someone on jobseekers allowance or a pensioner with only the guaranteed £ 130-140 a week coming in have to hand over yearly a full weeks income or more just to pay this thing. That is wrong in my book.

My Dad has always said, had people not protested and just paid the poll tax that was introduced by Margaret Thatcher then it would never have been abolished in its form.
He said people were now paying it, becasue they couldn't and some wouldn't but it did get rid of it

TV should be a right for people in this day and age,Politicians woulds be lost for instance trying to get their messages across without people having TVs.
It should be completely wrong in this present age to be forced to pay a fee for one company's channels only, on a TV you have had to purchase as yours anyway and also looking at the BBC a channel where at least a third of it's programmes and transmissions are repeats anyway.

The BBC is not as great as it was and also not as relevant as it was either,in the interests of fairness it should be made to get its business like all other companies and not be taking a full weeks income every year from some people who likely only have one TV while someone who has literally thousands coming in weekly with multiple TV sets in their homes pays as much as them.
I am not getting at those people though for that,I just believe 'no one' should have to pay this ancient tax anymore,I really detest this Licence fee and the fact it even still exists in the UK and just what would they do if everyone who did actually stopped paying,like many people did with that poll tax.

I'm as liberal as they come, but your argument would maybe have more sympathy if no one on benefits had Sky or Virgin.

[Pyramid*]

People don't get to choose whether they do or don't pay these things. It's a legal requirement. I also live alone, but it's in a desirable post code. I pay extra for that privilege. If I want to save myself £30/month on council tax, then I'd move.

We are masters of our own choices to an extent. I live in a flat, so on top of a swollen council tax bill, I also have to pay management company fees, that over the year would buy a very nice small car for a newly passed driver. All they do for that money is cut the grass. Now that is a rip off. But again, I choose to live there, and I signed up knowing what it would cost me to live there.


I happen to like where I live very much and accept that I need to tow the line - so like you: I accept that it is what is is.

Not paying the TV Licence - can be a choice. Don't have a tv or pc that can receive BBC channels or that they are blocked.



http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5/


It’s against the law to watch or record TV programmes as they're being shown on TV without a valid licence. This includes the use of devices such as a TV, computer, mobile phone, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.

Watching TV without a valid licence is a criminal offence. This can lead to prosecution, a court appearance and a fine of up to £1,000 (not including legal costs). The exceptions are in Guernsey where the maximum fine is £2,000 and Jersey it is £500.

It costs £145.50 for a colour and £49.00 for a black and white TV Licence
.

[Pyramid*]

I'm as liberal as they come, but your argument would maybe have more sympathy if no one on benefits had Sky or Virgin.

Including those people in prison btw..... who receive BBC plus satellite tv - without having to pay a penny.

another thing that the good old honest British citizen has to cover the cost of.

[Niamh.]

I love the fact there are no ads

[joeysteele]

I'm as liberal as they come, but your argument would maybe have more sympathy if no one on benefits had Sky or Virgin.

Well I didn't say they all had,I just said if people had sky etc, they would have to pay a monthly subscription to that company.

People on benefits though, they are people too, I don't consider a TV a luxury.
You don't need to have sky that is true, but if you now buy a TV when you need one, it comes with freeview,the BBC is part of the freeview set up.

They may never get sky but they will still have had to buy the TV with BBC included in that,no option not to have it and then still have to pay this pathetic £145 yearly.

Are you suggesting pensioners on low incomes, people genuinely sick or disabled or who are genuinely unemployed because there are only 400,000 vacancies as opposed to 2.6 million people out of work in the UK are 'not' still entitled to have a TV with a sky subscription if they can budget for that. My Dad for instance pays for a friend of his,who is genuinely ill and cannot work, Sky subscription as a Christmas gift.
Maybe the people you say as to benefits have only a modest sky package and they may have someone in the house who works or a member of their family who pays for it too.

The argument of this thread is in the main, why should anyone,mega-rich, rich, well-off,just okay, on benefits or have near hardly any income have to pay every year £145 a year to the BBC for having the privilege to watch a TV in their own home whether they watch or want to watch the BBC or not.

What percentage of available channels do the BBC now transmit in the UK, certainly nowhere near the 50% it was in the 70s and 80s, how come all the other TV companies get by and why should the BBC get all on a plate given to them year on year, decade after decade.

[Kate!]

I don't agree with the implication that by me not paying my tv licence, someone who does pay is out of pocket by more than they should be. The price of a tv licence is a fixed rate.

[arista]

I love the fact there are no ads

There are loads of BBC ads,




On SkyMoviesHD or MGMHD
once a film starts - No Ads
Non stop film.

[Josy]

I like the BBC and I also like the fact that they don't have ads.

[Jesus.]

Well I didn't say they all had,I just said if people had sky etc, they would have to pay a monthly subscription to that company.

People on benefits though, they are people too, I don't consider a TV a luxury.
You don't need to have sky that is true, but if you now buy a TV when you need one, it comes with freeview,the BBC is part of the freeview set up.

They may never get sky but they will still have had to buy the TV with BBC included in that,no option not to have it and then still have to pay this pathetic £145 yearly.

Are you suggesting pensioners on low incomes, people genuinely sick or disabled or who are genuinely unemployed because there are only 400,000 vacancies as opposed to 2.6 million people out of work in the UK are 'not' still entitled to have a TV with a sky subscription if they can budget for that. My Dad for instance pays for a friend of his,who is genuinely ill and cannot work, Sky subscription as a Christmas gift.
Maybe the people you say as to benefits have only a modest sky package and they may have someone in the house who workd who pays for it too.

The argument of this thread is in the main, why should anyone,mega-rich, rich, well-off,just okay, on benefits or have near hardly any income have to pay every year £145 a year to the BBC for having the privilege to watch a TV in their own home whether they watch or want to watch the BBC or not.

What percentage of available channels do the BBC now transmit in the UK, certainly nowhere near the 50% it was in the 70s and 80s, how come all the other TV companies get by and why should the BBC get all on a plate given to them year on year, decade after decade.

It would be impossible to produce the quality of programming that they do, without us paying for it. They could run without it, of course they could, but it would be a catastrophe to have the BBC turn into an ITV clone. You may not appreciate all the documentaries that they make, as they're not for everyone.

We lose the BBC at our peril.

[Josy]

There are loads of BBC ads,




On SkyMoviesHD or MGMHD
once a film starts - No Ads
Non stop film.

They only advertise their own programs though and it's only in between shows, it's not like say ITV where theres about 4 breaks during a one hour show.

[joeysteele]

I love the fact there are no ads

No ads but everyone has to pay £145 every year until they are 75.
They wouldn't need to show ads in between programmes though, (they show plenty ads for TV Licensing though).

I accept people like that fact but I think given the choice of ads and getting £145 into their pockets every year would outweigh that niggle.
Ironically I have found as many of the really well off people also want the Licence fee abolished as do the people on middle and low incomes.

[Pyramid*]

I don't agree with the implication that by me not paying my tv licence, someone who does pay is out of pocket by more than they should be. The price of a tv licence is a fixed rate.

it is not an implication Kate. It is fact. If you don't agree - then perhaps it wasn't the best thing to announce that you do not pay it, and never have.

The fixed rate of the licence - the cost of it - will be factored to accomodate those who 'do pay' and those who use the service but 'don't pay'.

If everyone took your stance - where do you think the money would come from?

[Redway]

I'm very mixed on the BBC. I like the fact that they don't do adverts between television shows but the license fee thing really gets on my nerves. A lot of shows on the BBC are totally undeserving of money that's been difficult to get. It feels like paying for trash at times.

[joeysteele]

It would be impossible to produce the quality of programming that they do, without us paying for it. They could run without it, of course they could, but it would be a catastrophe to have the BBC turn into an ITV clone. You may not appreciate all the documentaries that they make, as they're not for everyone.

We lose the BBC at our peril.

I have to disagree, the BBC is miles away from the quality it used to be. For me though, the BBC doesn't need to lose quality and doesn't need to go either,just be made to compete as a business like all other comapanies 'or' people should be given the opportunity to have the BBC on their TV sets or not, as it is the BBC wins hands down all the time and the viewing public have no choice at all.
That no option available is far worse then the BBC having to trim down a bit and take on more commercial funding in my opinion anyway.

[Pyramid*]

No ads but everyone has to pay £145 every year until they are 75.
They wouldn't need to show ads in between programmes though, (they show plenty ads for TV Licensing though).

I accept people like that fact but I think given the choice of ads and getting £145 into their pockets every year would outweigh that niggle.
Ironically I have found as many of the really well off people also want the Licence fee abolished as do the people on middle and low incomes.


That's incorrect Joey.

There are all sorts of concessions.

Patients in hospitals don't pay.

People in care homes that have a tv room - one tv - don't pay.

those in care homes have reduced payments if they have TV for sole use.

Prisoners don't pay - CRIMINALS who suck the system on all counts.

Young offenders don't pay. as above.

There are a great many types that don't have to pay.

[Jesus.]

I have to disagree, the BBC is miles away from the quality it used to be. For me though, the BBC doesn't need to lose quality and doesn't need to go either,just be made to compete as a business like all other comapanies 'or' people should be given the opportunity to have the BBC on their TV sets or not, as it is the BBC wins hands down all the time and the viewing public have no choice at all.
That no option available is far worse then the BBC having to trim down a bit and take on more commercial funding in my opinion anyway.

Depends. I don't watch any of the fluff programming they make. I watch most of their documentaries though, and believe me, there is no other company on earth that makes the same high quality programmes as the BBC. They are respected and admired across the world.

There should be some things that are above being sent into the market place to fight for existence. The BBC is one of them.

The BBC should be protected, and I'm glad they are.

[Jesus.]

That's incorrect Joey.

There are all sorts of concessions.

Patients in hospitals don't pay.

People in care homes that have a tv room - one tv - don't pay.

those in care homes have reduced payments if they have TV for sole use.

Prisoners don't pay - CRIMINALS who suck the system on all counts.

Young offenders don't pay. as above.

There are a great many types that don't have to pay.

**** me, Pyra, if the prison system was as easy as denying prisoners any kind of existence, then there are countries on eart that should have precisely zero prisoners. But there aren't. Lets see how far locking prisoners up in their cells for 24 hours a day without any stimulus gets us? They would be rioting constantly. It's one thing restricting prisoners freedoms and trying to re-educate them, it's another thing altogether to try and strip away the things we need as humans to exist.

[joeysteele]

it is not an implication Kate. It is fact. If you don't agree - then perhaps it wasn't the best thing to announce that you do not pay it, and never have.

The fixed rate of the licence - the cost of it - will be factored to accomodate those who 'do pay' and those who use the service but 'don't pay'.

If everyone took your stance - where do you think the money would come from?

The BBC would have to seek commercial funding and be made to realise it wasn't getting public handouts anymore as funding.
I will pay it when I have to,well I do now but as a group of us but I wish I had the courage not to.

The BBC and the Politicians need to wake up.The 'no ads' is 'not' a free option to the public it doesn't come free, everyone under 75 who has a TV has to pay £145 a year.
No choice for the public, a comfortable guaranteed income for the BBC from people who like the BBC and watch it or for those who don't and rarely watch it or even never do.
In this day and new thechnological age it is a fee that is plain ridiculous for every citizen to have to pay every year too.

Look at the money it wastes too, money from the public, does the Voice for instance really need 2 presenters, do News programmes really need 2 people on them too.
Don't get me started on chat show presenters as well.

[Niamh.]

There are loads of BBC ads,




On SkyMoviesHD or MGMHD
once a film starts - No Ads
Non stop film.

Not during a program though

[joeysteele]

That's incorrect Joey.

There are all sorts of concessions.

Patients in hospitals don't pay.

People in care homes that have a tv room - one tv - don't pay.

those in care homes have reduced payments if they have TV for sole use.

Prisoners don't pay - CRIMINALS who suck the system on all counts.

Young offenders don't pay. as above.

There are a great many types that don't have to pay.

Right,clearly I wasn't clear, I was talking as to people like myself who will have their own homes bought or council, on benefits or not who are under 75.
Obviously if nitpicking is now the order of the day there are people who will get to watch TV for free,but people like me up to the age of 75 will have to pay it.
The care homes will have to pay a licence just like the millionaire with TVs in near every room, Hospitals are likely to have to pay for TV licence too and also now in most hopspitals if you are in, you have to even pay massive amounts to just be able to watch TV anyway on those pull down TV sets there now.Even if they are in hospital and have a TV at home,despite being a patient in hospital they will still have bought a TV licence.

My reference, to clarify, was about people who have their home, bought or council, who are sick, working, well off or whatever,they will 'have' to pay this £145 yearly to watch TV in their own homes and only becasue of the BBC no other media organisation..

[Niamh.]

No ads but everyone has to pay £145 every year until they are 75.
They wouldn't need to show ads in between programmes though, (they show plenty ads for TV Licensing though).

I accept people like that fact but I think given the choice of ads and getting £145 into their pockets every year would outweigh that niggle.
Ironically I have found as many of the really well off people also want the Licence fee abolished as do the people on middle and low incomes.

Well, we have to pay a license fee but our national TV channel still has ads, so count yourselves lucky :joker:

[waterhog]

i used to love the BBC - but they dont let me post my poems on there POV message board - so i have gone right off them as that is not fare or right to block someone's op-ion just because they have a different way of saying things like me.

[Black Dagger]

I really like the BEEB.

Good shows, good service imo. :pipe:

[joeysteele]

Not during a program though

They wouldn't need to interrupt a programme though, I bet there are advertisers who would be chomping at the bit to get a top and tail section at the start and end of Eastenders for instance and for many BBC programmes, especially Strictly and major Sports events in the same way.

Sky films don't interrupt the film usually, they show ads at the start and end.The BBC doesn't need to go down that route of interrupting a programme with ads.

[Jesus.]

They wouldn't need to interrupt a programme though, I bet there are advertisers who would be chomping at the bit to get a top and tail section at the start and end of Eastenders for instance and for many BBC programmes, especially Strictly and major Sports events in the same way.

Sky films don't interrupt the film usually, they show ads at the start and end.The BBC doesn't need to go down that route of interrupting a programme with ads.

Advertising only at the beginning/ends of programmes would reduce the funds by over 75%. It's basic maths. How would they make enough money to continue to make the quality programming that they do?

[joeysteele]

Well, we have to pay a license fee but our national TV channel still has ads, so count yourselves lucky :joker:

Well,I am 20 now, I hope I see the day when the UK TV licence fee is abolished once and for all and as I said, if I go into active politics after Uni, it will be a major time of my time in politics campaigning to get rid of it.

The BBC has had things, for me, too good for too long and it has wasted a great deal of it's income on many unneccessary celebrity wages and overstaffing programming too.

In this day and age it's ridiculous to me that people have to pay a licence to watch a TV they have bought, in their own home.

[Niall]

I love the BBC. They're the only on thats pretty watchable out of ITV, C5, C4 and Sky1. They spend the money procured from licensing fees on quality documentaries, like Planet Earth, and Frozen Planet and all that. You also get all the programmes they air on BBC3 too. The documentaries that they put on there are actually really good most of the time. The reality shows they have are pretty damn good too (World's Strictest Parents, Blood Sweat and T-Shirts).

I mean if you removed the license fee and made them go commercial, then it'd probably degenerate into some trashy mess like ITV.

[Jesus.]

Well,I am 20 now, I hope I see the day when the UK TV licence fee is abolished once and for all and as I said, if I go into active politics after Uni, it will be a major time of my time in politics campaigning to get rid of it.

The BBC has had things, for me, too good for too long and it has wasted a great deal of it's income on many unneccessary celebrity wages and overstaffing programming too.

In this day and age it's ridiculous to me that people have to pay a licence to watch a TV they have bought, in their own home.

I don't understand it at all. Think of what is happening in our country/across the world right now, and your emphasis is on abolishing the BBC license fee?

[Jack_]

The BBC are a fantastic broadcasting institution which we should all be proud of.

I quite like their liberal existence, and their balanced, fair and detailed coverage of news events. Their political programmes and coverage are top draw, better than any other channel's offering in the UK, as are their documentaries. There's a wide range of programming available to all kinds of ages and interests, far greater than any other organisation has to offer.

And the no ads are a bonus - although I prefer having no ads on BBC Radio channels (who wants to hear adverts whilst you're listening to something?), I think I actually prefer having adverts on the TV, but only from a 'I want a break to go and get something' point of view.

At the end of the day we should be very thankful we don't have yet another organisation owned by some vile media mogul like Rupert Murdoch. The BBC, along with the NHS, are one of the last few state-funded and publicly owned institutions and I believe it should remain that way. We're already far too down the road of privatising everything, let's not take that any further.

[joeysteele]

Advertising only at the beginning/ends of programmes would reduce the funds by over 75%. It's basic maths. How would they make enough money to continue to make the quality programming that they do?

I disagree,I know of several companies who would love to get their ads on the BBC before and after,as I said Eastenders, there are also the advent of placement,less intrusive ads that could be incorporated into the programming too.

It won't be easy I admit for the BBC but then it isn't for all the other companies too who have to do that with no public handout., in fact I feel to get the real quality advertisers, the BBC and it's quality could even improve as to its core programming to attract such advertising.

With advertising we have now more choice of channels than ever before and they all manage. Without the commercial advertising channels all we would have is the BBC.
It is time they found out what it's like to compete in the real world and 'earn' its income too.

[Jesus.]

I disagree,I know of several companies who would love to get their ads on the BBC before and after,as I said Eastenders, there are also the advent of placement,less intrusive ads that could be incorporated into the programming too.

It won't be easy I admit for the BBC but then it isn't for all the other companies too who have to do that with no public handout., in fact I feel to get the real quality advertisers, the BBC and it's quality could even improve as to its core programming to attract such advertising.

With advertising we have now more choice of channels than ever before and they all manage. Without the commercial advertising channels all we would have is the BBC.
It is time they found out what it's like to compete in the real world and 'earn' its income too.

That's quite ridiculous. I'll find it hard to reply to this without patronising you, so I'm happy to agree to disagree.

[Marsh.]

I don't really know. On one hand they're much more reliable to provide a good quality drama or documentary than ITV and many others.

However, I resent how much money was shoved in the back pocket of people like Jonathan Ross and the rest of the BBC Brigade. It's not a case of the license fee needing to be so high to cover costs but having so much money they can throw millions here and there willy-nilly.

[joeysteele]

I don't understand it at all. Think of what is happening in our country/across the world right now, and your emphasis is on abolishing the BBC license fee?

:conf: This thread is about the BBC and its licence fee, what else am I going to talk about on here?
I have a massive social conscience and on many major issues,you have no idea what other things I fight for and believe in,this thread is not about them though.
In political life,if I go into active politics,I will be fighting and trying to change many major issues and problems for people in the Country and the World in general when I can as passionately as I believe in getting rid of this licence fee if I can do anyhting to hasten that.

What an extraordinary comment to make considering this thread deals only with the BBC and the licence fee and not those other issues affecting the world.

Having said that I do feel putting £145 a year back to people to do whatever they want with is not a trifling issue really.

[joeysteele]

That's quite ridiculous. I'll find it hard to reply to this without patronising you, so I'm happy to agree to disagree.

I'm extremely happy to agree to disagree.

[Jesus.]

:conf: This thread is about the BBC and its licence fee, what else am I going to talk about on here?
I have a massive social conscience and on many major issues,you have no idea what other things I fight for and believe in,this thread is not about them though.
In political life,if I go into active politics,I will be fighting and trying to change many major issues and problems for people in the Country and the World in general when I can as passionately as I believe in getting rid of this licence fee if I can do anyhting to hasten that.

What an extraordinary comment to make considering this thread deals only with the BBC and the licence fee and not those other issues affecting the world.

Having said that I do feel putting £145 a year back to people to do whatever they want with is not a trifling issue really.

My point was aimed at your statement that abolishing the license fee is a big part of your emphasis. You can't have too many areas for such things as you'll spread yourself too thinly, and achieve nothing. I find it astounding that this is a consideration in political life.

It's a populist idea. The problem, is that once this was done, there is no way to change it back. So let's see how people are when all that is shown on the BBC is Towie.

It's so short sighted, and you'll probably realise this as you get older. Sun headline populism doesn't make great politics.

[Jack_]

It is time they found out what it's like to compete in the real world and 'earn' its income too.

No. Just no.

We should all be proud that we all pay into and effectively share an institution collectively, which can be enjoyed by not only everyone in the UK, but in many places around the world. An institution that has its content and programming as its main, primary focus, rather than yet another organisation owned by a Rupert Murdoch type only interested in profit and more importantly, shoving its own political allegiance down our throats.

God forbid that ever happens to the BBC. Just imagine it...The Sun TV. Or how about the UK's version of Fox News?

[Pyramid*]

i used to love the BBC - but they dont let me post my poems on there POV message board - so i have gone right off them as that is not fare or right to block someone's op-ion just because they have a different way of saying things like me.

Are you altogether surprised?

What has this to do with the TV licence.

Posting on their website doesn't have a thing to do with that at all.

[Pyramid*]

No. Just no.

We should all be proud that we all pay into and effectively share an institution collectively, which can be enjoyed by not only everyone in the UK, but in many places around the world. An institution that has its content and programming as its main, primary focus, rather than yet another organisation owned by a Rupert Murdoch type only interested in profit and more importantly, shoving its own political allegiance down our throats.

God forbid that ever happens to the BBC. Just imagine it...The Sun TV. Or how about the UK's version of Fox News?


This and your other post on here Jack is (believe it or not) - one of the reasons I do like you as a poster.

You have many intelligent views and thoughts - some I don't necessarily agree with, but many (more than you think) - that I do agree with - and once again, your comments in this thread fall into the ''I most definitely agree with you'' on.

Well said.

[Pyramid*]

Right,clearly I wasn't clear, I was talking as to people like myself who will have their own homes bought or council, on benefits or not who are under 75.
Obviously if nitpicking is now the order of the day there are people who will get to watch TV for free,but people like me up to the age of 75 will have to pay it.
The care homes will have to pay a licence just like the millionaire with TVs in near every room, Hospitals are likely to have to pay for TV licence too and also now in most hopspitals if you are in, you have to even pay massive amounts to just be able to watch TV anyway on those pull down TV sets there now.Even if they are in hospital and have a TV at home,despite being a patient in hospital they will still have bought a TV licence.

My reference, to clarify, was about people who have their home, bought or council, who are sick, working, well off or whatever,they will 'have' to pay this £145 yearly to watch TV in their own homes and only becasue of the BBC no other media organisation..


You don't currently have to pay yourself though. In effect, you are complaining about something that does not affect you, that has no impact upon you.

You are complaining of behalf of others that are affected?

Care homes do not have to pay for every single room. That may be down to the person to whom owns the TV set - it depends on the size of carehome, how many tvs are there etc... whether it is considered a business or not.

I'm not entirely sure Joey that this is one that you perhaps are aware of the ins and outs of.

Students, lodgers, tenents, owners of 2nd homes, etc: don't pay the same rates: if at all.

[arista]

No. Just no.

We should all be proud that we all pay into and effectively share an institution collectively, which can be enjoyed by not only everyone in the UK, but in many places around the world. An institution that has its content and programming as its main, primary focus, rather than yet another organisation owned by a Rupert Murdoch type only interested in profit and more importantly, shoving its own political allegiance down our throats.

God forbid that ever happens to the BBC. Just imagine it...The Sun TV. Or how about the UK's version of Fox News?


We do not need it
as we have FoxNews live now


No way would they do a UK version.

[Kizzy]

No. Just no.

We should all be proud that we all pay into and effectively share an institution collectively, which can be enjoyed by not only everyone in the UK, but in many places around the world. An institution that has its content and programming as its main, primary focus, rather than yet another organisation owned by a Rupert Murdoch type only interested in profit and more importantly, shoving its own political allegiance down our throats.

God forbid that ever happens to the BBC. Just imagine it...The Sun TV. Or how about the UK's version of Fox News?

All media inflences one way or another...choosing which news items to run with, the angle from which they are reported...This is not done soley by commercial stations.

[Jesus.]

We do not need it
as we have FoxNews live now


No way would they do a UK version.

Arista. Fox news is an appalling channel. If I link you to a documentary about them, would you watch it?

[joeysteele]

My point was aimed at your statement that abolishing the license fee is a big part of your emphasis. You can't have too many areas for such things as you'll spread yourself too thinly, and achieve nothing. I find it astounding that this is a consideration in political life.

It's a populist idea. The problem, is that once this was done, there is no way to change it back. So let's see how people are when all that is shown on the BBC is Towie.

It's so short sighted, and you'll probably realise this as you get older. Sun headline populism doesn't make great politics.

Politicians have to deal with the really major and less major issues all the time, all their political life, this as I said is a thread as to the TV licence and the BBC, I have devoted time to stating my view on that,which you, as is your right disagree with.
It would not take all my time every day, it would always be one of my targets though.
From all the people I know and who I have talked to as to the TV licence, very few want to keep it.
It is however also a political issue because it is the 'politicians' via a 'govt' who would have to agree to discuss it and then likely vote on it to abolish the TV licence before it could be,for sure as Christmas comes every year the BBC are never going to give it up voluntarily.

[arista]

Arista. Fox news is an appalling channel. If I link you to a documentary about them, would you watch it?

Do not need it
seen them all.



Yes I watch it
it is Funny.

I also watch RT. Alyona show
as she takes the Piss of Fox and CNN.




Life In The Fast Lane.

[Kizzy]

News is not meant to be funny arista....Thats why we have comedy.

[Jesus.]

Do not need it
seen them all.



Yes I watch it
it is Funny.

I also watch RT. Alyona show
as she takes the Piss of Fox and CNN.




Life In The Fast Lane.

Do you like Jon Gaunt?

[Shaun]

Generally hold them in extremely high regard. Their news reporting is, for the most part, neutral and informative and without extremity or fearmongering (ITV, Sky, Fox...). Their programming is generally excellent too - there's a whole range of programmes I could complain about and often do (the majority of BBC3 shows, the soaps and all of the daytime antique crap).

I don't like the idea of paying towards the judges on the Voice but it's such a negligible amount and the available good-quality programmes sort of makes up for it. If you think about all of the Sir David Attenborough documentaries, uncountable comedy classics and their world coverage they're a far more valuable broadcaster than the others.

[arista]

News is not meant to be funny arista....Thats why we have comedy.



I agree
But Bill O' Reilly geting angry
is so funny.

http://whatthehayell.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Bill-OReilly.jpg

[arista]

Do you like Jon Gaunt?

No

[Marsh.]

Politicians have to deal with the really major and less major issues all the time, all their political life, this as I said is a thread as to the TV licence and the BBC, I have devoted time to stating my view on that,which you, as is your right disagree with.
It would not take all my time every day, it would always be one of my targets though.
From all the people I know and who I have talked to as to the TV licence, very few want to keep it.
It is however also a political issue because it is the 'politicians' via a 'govt' who would have to agree to discuss it and then likely vote on it to abolish the TV licence before it could be,for sure as Christmas comes every year the BBC are never going to give it up voluntarily.

Just jumping in here to say, from this post, you sound very naive. Obviously entitled to your opinion but this post screams of "if only it were a perfect world".

[Jack_]

This and your other post on here Jack is (believe it or not) - one of the reasons I do like you as a poster.

You have many intelligent views and thoughts - some I don't necessarily agree with, but many (more than you think) - that I do agree with - and once again, your comments in this thread fall into the ''I most definitely agree with you'' on.

Well said.

Well, I am a little surprised I have to admit, but thank you :hugesmile:

We do not need it
as we have FoxNews live now


No way would they do a UK version.

Good. Let's keep it that way, eh?

All media inflences one way or another...choosing which news items to run with, the angle from which they are reported...This is not done soley by commercial stations.

I know that, but some are more balanced than others, and the BBC is most definitely one of them.

[Kazanne]

I don't watch BBC very often,the only thing I watch continually on it is Eastenders,so I begrudge paying that amount of licence for something I do not use a lot,Adverts DO annoy me sometimes,but some of them are quite entertaining so I don't mind them too much,imo ITV dramas etc are far superior to BBCs at the moment.

[joeysteele]

Just jumping in here to say, from this post, you sound very naive. Obviously entitled to your opinion but this post screams of "if only it were a perfect world".

That is all you have to say on the subject then, to say I sound naive,with respect 'you' don't know me or 'what' my efforts are in many areas of life.

Who wouldn't want a perfect world,however the OP asked for peoples opinions on the BBC and the licence fee, I have stated mine very clearly, if all you have to say is that I sound naive then so be it.

[Kizzy]

I agree
But Bill O' Reilly geting angry
is so funny.

http://whatthehayell.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Bill-OReilly.jpg

It's not his job to be funny though is it?...He is there to deliver the news in an impartial manner not squark his half baked ideals....

[Marsh.]

That is all you have to say on the subject then, to say I sound naive,with respect 'you' don't know me or 'what' my efforts are in many areas of life.

Who wouldn't want a perfect world,however the OP asked for peoples opinions on the BBC and the licence fee, I have stated mine very clearly, if all you have to say is that I sound naive then so be it.

I never claimed to "know you". I said your post sounds very naive. Which it does.

I'm not saying no one wants a perfect world, but sitting comfortably saying "I will do this, I will do that" as though it's that simple is quite simply silly.

[Jesus.]

Can a mod remove this if it's deemed not serious enough. Thanks.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/013/155/o_reilly_Factor.jpg

[joeysteele]

You don't currently have to pay yourself though. In effect, you are complaining about something that does not affect you, that has no impact upon you.

You are complaining of behalf of others that are affected?

Care homes do not have to pay for every single room. That may be down to the person to whom owns the TV set - it depends on the size of carehome, how many tvs are there etc... whether it is considered a business or not.

I'm not entirely sure Joey that this is one that you perhaps are aware of the ins and outs of.

Students, lodgers, tenents, owners of 2nd homes, etc: don't pay the same rates: if at all.

Pyramid. with respect, I know about the TV Licence,I and a group of students have over the last 6 months taken up helping people who have problems with TV LIcensing, I am fully aware the licence is for an address not every room, hence my point that multi millionaires can have a TV in every room in their massive places still for the same fee as someone who is 65 on a state pension with a TV in one room.
I am aware of that.
I also stated if you read carefully, that I said I paid as part of a group of us who share a house while at UNi, I may not pay the full fee myslef but I do pay it and when I am on my own after leaving Uni and home, I will have to pay the full fee too and will begrudge every single penny of it too.
What though does it matter whether even if I had to pay it yet or not, I would still be entitiled to having a view on it and help others who have concerns as to it.

I assure you I know the ins and out of this issue, I have battled as to the Licence fee from aged 15,I think it is ridiculous.

I do have to say I am surprised at your personal comment as to my lack of knowledge of this issue,I rarely get so deeply involved in issues I know little about, I never said care homes had to pay for every TV, I said they would still have to pay a Licence fee, I know they do because on of my Aunts is in a care home and they said they had to, not obviously for every residents room but for an address.
Tenants renting a room from a landlord will live at addresses where the landlord has paid the licence fee so TVs can be watched on the premises, I do research things you know.
All addresses that have a TV have to have a TV licence, that is the law.there is not much else to know as to having a TV licence than that.

A licence fee for an adrdress doesn't have to be in anyones name that even lives there as long as there is a licence for the address, regardless of how many TVs are there.
I think I know far more than you give me credit for as to this issue and I am massively surprised at that too.

[Kizzy]

I thought it did have the name of the hoseholder on?...I dont know i dont have one.....hehehe

[joeysteele]

I thought it did have the name of the hoseholder on?...I dont know i dont have one.....hehehe

It does if you buy it, say though if you had someone who lived with you and they bought the licence, if they died or left but didn't want the licence you would be validly covered until the licence expired.

The main thing is to have a licence for the 'address',obviously since you live there,yours would be in your name, but equally someone staying with you could buy the licence in their name for the address and it still be fully valid.

[Pyramid*]

Pyramid. with respect, I know about the TV Licence,I and a group of students have over the last 6 months taken up helping people who have problems with TV LIcensing, I am fully aware the licence is for an address not every room, hence my point that multi millionaires can have a TV in every room in their massive places still for the same fee as someone who is 65 on a state pension with a TV in one room.
I am aware of that.
I also stated if you read carefully, that I said I paid as part of a group of us who share a house while at UNi, I may not pay the full fee myslef but I do pay it and when I am on my own after leaving Uni and home, I will have to pay the full fee too and will begrudge every single penny of it too.
What though does it matter whether even if I had to pay it yet or not, I would still be entitiled to having a view on it and help others who have concerns as to it.

I assure you I know the ins and out of this issue, I have battled as to the Licence fee from aged 15,I think it is ridiculous.

I do have to say I am surprised at your personal comment as to my lack of knowledge of this issue,I rarely get so deeply involved in issues I know little about, I never said care homes had to pay for every TV, I said they would still have to pay a Licence fee, I know they do because on of my Aunts is in a care home and they said they had to, not obviously for every residents room but for an address.
Tenants renting a room from a landlord will live at addresses where the landlord has paid the licence fee so TVs can be watched on the premises, I do research things you know.
All addresses that have a TV have to have a TV licence, that is the law.there is not much else to know as to having a TV licence than that.

A licence fee for an adrdress doesn't have to be in anyones name that even lives there as long as there is a licence for the address, regardless of how many TVs are there.
I think I know far more than you give me credit for as to this issue and I am massively surprised at that too.


I think you are taking anything I have said way too personally - my comments are correct and valid.

With all respect: until you are liable to pay - and decide not to, and decide to make that illegal judgement on refuse to pay: and take your chance on being caught: I do think that it's somewhat unrealistic to have such a judgment on something that simply does not currently affect you personally, having an opinion on something is all fine and well - when you are not in the real life position of making a choice that may very well lead to you have a criminal conviction.

Let's zoom forward a few years when you are living in your own place.

Will you be paying your TV licence?

[DigitalSid]

Yes Live in Kenya
but they played recorded film more than Live
Costing to much,
wasting my Tax Fee.

If you're on about Planet Earth Live, if they had have recorded the animals live you'd not have seen much, animals don't mate or hunt on demand. It takes 5 years to film things like Planet Earth, they were never going to be able to show us anything worth watching if it was all filmed live. Just Lions sleeping and Bears scratching themselves. It was called Planet Earth Live because the information and updates on the animals we were given on the show were the situation as it was when the programme was on, rather than when it was recorded 5 years ago like Planet Earth. The clips weren't live but the information and updates were.

[joeysteele]

I think you are taking anything I have said way too personally - my comments are correct and valid.

With all respect: until you are liable to pay - and decide not to, and decide to make that illegal judgement on refuse to pay: and take your chance on being caught: I do think that it's somewhat unrealistic to have such a judgment on something that simply does not currently affect you personally, having an opinion on something is all fine and well - when you are not in the real life position of making a choice that may very well lead to you have a criminal conviction.

Let's zoom forward a few years when you are living in your own place.

Will you be paying your TV licence?



What,I'm 20 years old,I live with other people in a house that wasn't covered by a valid TV licence so I contribute to that licence as do the others.

People have judgements and views on all sorts of issues that don't happen to them but I do pay part of the fee, not all, as there are 4 of us.

How am I not in the real life position of paying for a TV licence and how would that in any case negate my view of the TV licence.

I shouldn't have to answer this but yes,when I live in my own house I will pay the Licence if it still exists then in full.
I wish I had the courage not to but I will do so.

This thread is about what people thought of the BBC and the TV Licence fee.
Only one person has said they don't pay it,that is up to them.
I think most of your comments are valid but to assume and attempt to belittle me as to my knowledge on this matter,when clearly I know plenty and also as to whether I should even have a view as to paying it or not are certainly not valid comments and I take issue with them definately.

[Kizzy]

My brother doesen't either, but he does not have a TV he watches 4OD and BBC iplayer all the time though...:)

[Kate!]

Just caught up on this thread, been out all day, very interesting reading, good to read all the points if view.

I stand by my principles still and will continue to not pay the licence fee. In response to an earlier comment, I forget who by, if everyone did take my stance it would be a good thing, as it would effectively force a long overdue change and also prove that there are alternatives, not just having adverts either.

[Kate!]

Just caught up on this thread, been out all day, very interesting reading, good to read all the points if view.

I stand by my principles still and will continue to not pay the licence fee. In response to an earlier comment, I forget who by, if everyone did take my stance it would be a good thing, as it would effectively force a long overdue change and also prove that there are alternatives, not just having adverts either.

[Pyramid*]

Just caught up on this thread, been out all day, very interesting reading, good to read all the points if view.

I stand by my principles still and will continue to not pay the licence fee. In response to an earlier comment, I forget who by, if everyone did take my stance it would be a good thing, as it would effectively force a long overdue change and also prove that there are alternatives, not just having adverts either.

If everyone took your stance over all things that we have to pay, but don't agree with, the country would be in a hell of a state.

Suffice to say: those who don't pay their tv licence but continue to watch and use the services - are on par with those who cheat the benefits system and all other such things.

Sorry if you find that sore Kate - but it is illegal - and is a criminal offence regardless of how you view it. (pun intended... :D)

[Pyramid*]

What,I'm 20 years old,I live with other people in a house that wasn't covered by a valid TV licence so I contribute to that licence as do the others.

People have judgements and views on all sorts of issues that don't happen to them but I do pay part of the fee, not all, as there are 4 of us.

How am I not in the real life position of paying for a TV licence and how would that in any case negate my view of the TV licence.

I shouldn't have to answer this but yes,when I live in my own house I will pay the Licence if it still exists then in full.
I wish I had the courage not to but I will do so.

This thread is about what people thought of the BBC and the TV Licence fee.
Only one person has said they don't pay it,that is up to them.
I think most of your comments are valid but to assume and attempt to belittle me as to my knowledge on this matter,when clearly I know plenty and also as to whether I should even have a view as to paying it or not are certainly not valid comments and I take issue with them definately.


How do you contribute to it?

Do you and the others in your household divvy up how much each you put in to cover the cost Joey?

do you hand in £3 per month and say, "Here, that's my TV licence contribution this month"? I hate to say it, but I really have a feeling you don't.

[joeysteele]

Just caught up on this thread, been out all day, very interesting reading, good to read all the points if view.

I stand by my principles still and will continue to not pay the licence fee. In response to an earlier comment, I forget who by, if everyone did take my stance it would be a good thing, as it would effectively force a long overdue change and also prove that there are alternatives, not just having adverts either.

If everyone took that stance then the BBC would be in a mess temporarily but it could force long overdue change as you say and make it realise that it wasn't going to get the opportunity of wasting peoples money with no reference back to the people paying them either.

I was one of those who mentioned a point as to not paying forcing overdue change,it came from my Dad who said that had people not refused to comply with the poll tax it likely would not have got abolished in the form it was in.

Nothing wrong in standing by your principles Kate.history has many examples of where some laws have had to be broken to get better laws.

[joeysteele]

How do you contribute to it?

Do you and the others in your household divvy up how much each you put in to cover the cost Joey?

do you hand in £3 per month and say, "Here, that's my TV licence contribution this month"? I hate to say it, but I really have a feeling you don't.

How dare you, that is insulting pyramid and I ask you to retract that.There are 4 of us and it's nothing to do with you in any case,however to be decent and answer your atrocious comment, we divide the cost by 4, and buy the new one when it expires.

All students are not wasters Pyramid and I take great insult at my integrity on a statement I have made on here being discounted without proof.
I am absolutely amazed at you for that comment and find it grossly offesnsive.

[Kate!]

I do actually take exception to that Pyramid, and I don't think I'm on.a par with a benefits cheat thank you, I worked all my adult life until I was made redundant and always paid all my rent and council tax... With the TV licence, its a moral stance not to pay it, and its my choice..Seems to me that anyone who says anything whatsoever on here that you don't agree with, you have to beat the life out of the subject, yoy have nitpicked everything Joey had to say on the subject and implied he was ill informed :conf: and also have to have the last word. I don't feel that need myself so should you reply to this comment, I'm done. :D I don't want to get into a slanging match with you, like a dog with a bone. Some of the things you say to people on here are insulting, wrapped up in fancy language. What you said to Joey.just was appalling.I'm quite sure you'll be furious I said this, but I'm tired of the sniping.

Fin.

[joeysteele]

How do you contribute to it?

Do you and the others in your household divvy up how much each you put in to cover the cost Joey?

do you hand in £3 per month and say, "Here, that's my TV licence contribution this month"? I hate to say it, but I really have a feeling you don't.

Clearly you are not going to retract it so all I can say is that says more about you than it ever will me.

My Parents brought me up to do right but also to question as well,if something is wrong, doing nothing will only leave it wrong.

I am a very privileged Student,I know that because my Parents are seeing me all through it.

I am able to pay bills and other things thanks to my own efforts and their help, not all students are in my position,I share with 4 other students, you asked me a question re the TV Licence,I have told you I am insulted and feel massively wronged by your comment above.
It is highly offensive and totally uncalled for as well as being none of your business anyway.

Kindly retract it,I will not allow my integrity to be questioned even more so when I know I am 100% right.

[Pyramid*]

How dare you, that is insulting pyramid and I ask you to retract that.There are 4 of us and it's nothing to do with you in any case,however to be decent and answer your atrocious comment, we divide the cost by 4, and buy the new one when it expires.

All students are not wasters Pyramid and I take great insult at my integrity on a statement I have made on here being discounted without proof.
I am absolutely amazed at you for that comment and find it grossly offesnsive.

I do actually take exception to that Pyramid, and I don't think I'm on.a par with a benefits cheat thank you, I worked all my adult life until I was made redundant and always paid all my rent and council tax... With the TV licence, its a moral stance not to pay it, and its my choice..Seems to me that anyone who says anything whatsoever on here that you don't agree with, you have to beat the life out of the subject, yoy have nitpicked everything Joey had to say on the subject and implied he was ill informed :conf: and also have to have the last word. I don't feel that need myself so should you reply to this comment, I'm done. :D I don't want to get into a slanging match with you, like a dog with a bone. Some of the things you say to people on here are insulting, wrapped up in fancy language. What you said to Joey.just was appalling.I'm quite sure you'll be furious I said this, but I'm tired of the sniping.

Fin.

Clearly you are not going to retract it so all I can say is that says more about you than it ever will me.

My Parents brought me up to do right but also to question as well,if something is wrong, doing nothing will only leave it wrong.

I am a very privileged Student,I know that because my Parents are seeing me all through it.

I am able to pay bills and other things thanks to my own efforts and their help, not all students are in my position,I share with 4 other students, you asked me a question re the TV Licence,I have told you I am insulted and feel massively wronged by your comment above.
It is highly offensive and totally uncalled for as well as being none of your business anyway.

Kindly retract it,I will not allow my integrity to be questioned even more so when I know I am 100% right.


Hey it's as simple as this. I have my opinion - you may not like it but there is no need to go take umbrage.

If people chose to break the law and think it's fine.... where then should that stop?

Where is the benchmark of which laws we should and should not abide by?

Okay for some parts of the law to be broken when it suits: but not other parts? that's what this amounts to.

No need for all the 'oh that's so insulting, I take offence'. If people cannot enter a serious debate thread without realising that difference of opinion occurs - there really isn't any point in discussing it.

And Joey: perhaps you can address your comment about all students being wasters... I have never said such on thing on here. Perhaps walk away from taking this all so very personally and look at it objectively instead of subjectively.

It's about the whole debate - not just students you know.

[MTVN]

Maybe if people are finding themselves offended and insulted by your posts it might be a courtesy to re-examine them - I think you'll find plenty of other people can partake in a serious debate without causing the level of offence you have here

[Pyramid*]

I do actually take exception to that Pyramid, and I don't think I'm on.a par with a benefits cheat thank you, I worked all my adult life until I was made redundant and always paid all my rent and council tax... With the TV licence, its a moral stance not to pay it, and its my choice..Seems to me that anyone who says anything whatsoever on here that you don't agree with, you have to beat the life out of the subject, yoy have nitpicked everything Joey had to say on the subject and implied he was ill informed :conf: and also have to have the last word. I don't feel that need myself so should you reply to this comment, I'm done. :D I don't want to get into a slanging match with you, like a dog with a bone. Some of the things you say to people on here are insulting, wrapped up in fancy language. What you said to Joey.just was appalling.I'm quite sure you'll be furious I said this, but I'm tired of the sniping.

Fin.


It is a discussion that you raised: you don't like the way it is going - well I don't apologise for that - but hey: if you can't accept people have opinions that don't match yours - regardles.... then that really isn't my issue Kate.

I suspect more people share my opinion on this than are posting, but don't want to seem 'unpopular' by voicing it. Either way: it's my opinion. I'm not the one breaking the law here.

[Pyramid*]

Maybe if people are finding themselves offended and insulted by your posts it might be a courtesy to re-examine them - I think you'll find plenty of other people can partake in a serious debate without causing the level of offence you have here

Mabye if people are so thin skinned.... as you and other mods keep stating about 'other posters' when it suits: they perhaps shouldn't enter serious debates without accepting that others have as equally strong opinions MTVN.

Or are strong opinions only allowed when some mods and some posters are in agreement? Seems the case.

[joeysteele]

Hey it's as simple as this. I have my opinion - you may not like it but there is no need to go take umbrage.

If people chose to break the law and think it's fine.... where then should that stop?

Where is the benchmark of which laws we should and should not abide by?

Okay for some parts of the law to be broken when it suits: but not other parts? that's what this amounts to.

No need for all the 'oh that's so insulting, I take offence'. If people cannot enter a serious debate thread without realising that difference of opinion occurs - there really isn't any point in discussing it.

And Joey: perhaps you can address your comment about all students being wasters... I have never said such on thing on here. Perhaps walk away from taking this all so very personally and look at it objectively instead of subjectively.

It's about the whole debate - not just students you know.

Opinion is not calling into account the integrity as to a person saying they pay for somethting and then you insinuating they don't in your opinion.

I don't do that to anyone and do not expect it back, you have cast doubts in your personal opinion as my paying part of a TV Licence, if I have said I do and then you question I do, then you are calling me a ;iar and I will not take that from anyone.

If you are not going to retract it and are unable to see how offensive you have been then I am going to get it retracted,you are very wrong on this one and the fact you still stand by your opinion as to me and that issue then I have to protect my integrity.

I would always admit I was wrong and apologise too,I am the one offended,I have told you I am.It's not umbrage it's called respecting people.

[Pyramid*]

Opinion is not calling into account the integrity as to a persons saying they pay for somehting and then you insinuating they don't in your opinion.

I don't do that to anyone and do not expect it back, you have cast doubts in your personal opinion as my paying part of a TV Licence, if I have said I do and then you question I do, then you are calling me a ;iar and I will not take that from anyone.

If you are not going to retract it and are unable to see how offensive you have been then I am going to get it retracted,you are very wrong on this one and the fact you still stand by your opinion as to me and that issue then I have to protect my integrity.

I would always admit I was wrong and apologise too,I am the one offended,I have told you I am.It's not umbrage it's called respecting people.


I don't have to question the integrity of people who knowingly and willingly acknoweledge that they happily break the law.

That's their choice - not mine.

I respect people's opinons Joey: that does not mean I have to respect they way they life at the cost to others. There is a huge difference.

Also I asked how you contribute to the TV licence - a question. I did not call you a liar so please do not pretend to read something that I did not say Joey. Thanks.

[joeysteele]

I don't have to question the integrity of people who knowingly and willingly acknoweledge that they happily break the law.

That's their choice - not mine.

I don't break the law,what are you on about?? stop sidestepping the issue and deal with your comment that you doubt I pay anything to a due TV Lcence when I have told you I do and have.

What right have you to question my integrity and infer I am lying.This is ridiculous, in true debate you would not be allowed to call someone a liar.You said you doubted we payed for the Licence Pyramid, read your posts again.

[Kizzy]

Me and kate do...Cos we is rebels...:)

[joeysteele]

How do you contribute to it?

Do you and the others in your household divvy up how much each you put in to cover the cost Joey?

do you hand in £3 per month and say, "Here, that's my TV licence contribution this month"? I hate to say it, but I really have a feeling you don't.

It's as clear as day to me you doubted we paid for a TV Licence.They are your words not mine Pyramid.

[Kate!]

Me and kate do...Cos we is rebels...:)

Yes I break this law, I also steal grapes ..... Get the gallows ready, I'm such a bad ass. :D

Kizzy, pack your stuff, I'm coming to get you. We are going on the run. :laugh:

[Pyramid*]

I don't break the law,what are you on about?? stop sidestepping the issue and deal with your comment that you doubt I pay anything to a due TV Lcence when I have told you I do and have.

What right have you to question my integrity and infer I am lying.This is ridiculous, in true debate you would not be allowed to call someone a liar.You said you doubted we payed for the Licence Pyramid, read your posts again.

I didn't say you broke the law Joey. Read what I have written.

I ASKED you a few questions: one being .... when you have your own place and are responsible for paying a TV lic, will you refuse to pay it?

Stop making an issue out of things that are not said to you personally.

As Kizzy said: BOTH she and Kate admit that they don't pay it - and I have my opinion on those who don't.

I may understand their reasons for it: and I respect their reasons but that does not mean I have to respect the criminal action that is, in fact, taking place.

The concept between the person - and something they chose to do willingly - is very different.

If someone wishes to avoid paying something they are legally meant to pay: then they really have no reason to take offence when someone disagrees with that.

[Pyramid*]

[/B]

It's as clear as day to me you doubted we paid for a TV Licence.They are your words not mine Pyramid.


Yes... and?

You didn't answer the question.

I said I had a feeling you did not specifically add to the TV licence kitty. I said not one word about 'we'..... I asked if YOU specifically contribute to it. I have no doubts your parents buy it, none whatsoever.

That is a feeling...that is NOT calling you a liar.


Back to the other question I asked you abou when you ARE liable to pay the licence when you have your own place.

[Pyramid*]

Yes I break this law, I also steal grapes ..... Get the gallows ready, I'm such a bad ass. :D

Kizzy, pack your stuff, I'm coming to get you. We are going on the run. :laugh:

You big ass criminal that you are. I hope this does not lead you down the path to utter ruination Kate.

:D

[Kizzy]

Fundis on the run! :D

[joeysteele]

How do you contribute to it?

[B]Do you and the others in your household divvy up how much each you put in to cover the cost Joey?

do you hand in £3 per month and say, "Here, that's my TV licence contribution this month"? I hate to say it, but I really have a feeling you don't.[/B

]Pyramid I am done with you on this one, read this post of yours again, you doubt we do and say you feel we dont pay for the TV Licence, if I and others with me don't pay the licence we break the law.

I am absolutely amazed at you on this,if you cannot see that I am offended and that you 'did' question my integrity as I had already stated we do pay for the Licence then that is in reality your problem not mine.

I take massive exception to the comment above, it does question my integrity, I have asked you to retract it but you then try to turn things as being my fault.

The comments above are pretty clear and they are yours no one elses and they are insulting and wrong to be placed on a public forum about any other member.

Oh and I even answered your question as when I am on my own in my own place although lord knows why I should have felt the need to.

[Omah]

The BBC do a fantastic job. Their documentaries are renowned across the world, and foreign countries respect the BBC news/World service far more than they trust their own news.

We should be extremely proud.

Very good points there.

They do the most fab documentaries and as you rightly say: they are highly trusted the world over.

I love the fact there are no ads

I like the BBC and I also like the fact that they don't have ads.

It would be impossible to produce the quality of programming that they do, without us paying for it. They could run without it, of course they could, but it would be a catastrophe to have the BBC turn into an ITV clone. You may not appreciate all the documentaries that they make, as they're not for everyone.

We lose the BBC at our peril.

I'm very mixed on the BBC. I like the fact that they don't do adverts between television shows but the license fee thing really gets on my nerves. A lot of shows on the BBC are totally undeserving of money that's been difficult to get. It feels like paying for trash at times.

Depends. I don't watch any of the fluff programming they make. I watch most of their documentaries though, and believe me, there is no other company on earth that makes the same high quality programmes as the BBC. They are respected and admired across the world.

There should be some things that are above being sent into the market place to fight for existence. The BBC is one of them.

The BBC should be protected, and I'm glad they are.

I really like the BEEB.

Good shows, good service imo. :pipe:

I love the BBC. They're the only on thats pretty watchable out of ITV, C5, C4 and Sky1. They spend the money procured from licensing fees on quality documentaries, like Planet Earth, and Frozen Planet and all that. You also get all the programmes they air on BBC3 too. The documentaries that they put on there are actually really good most of the time. The reality shows they have are pretty damn good too (World's Strictest Parents, Blood Sweat and T-Shirts).

I mean if you removed the license fee and made them go commercial, then it'd probably degenerate into some trashy mess like ITV.

The BBC are a fantastic broadcasting institution which we should all be proud of.

I quite like their liberal existence, and their balanced, fair and detailed coverage of news events. Their political programmes and coverage are top draw, better than any other channel's offering in the UK, as are their documentaries. There's a wide range of programming available to all kinds of ages and interests, far greater than any other organisation has to offer.

And the no ads are a bonus - although I prefer having no ads on BBC Radio channels (who wants to hear adverts whilst you're listening to something?), I think I actually prefer having adverts on the TV, but only from a 'I want a break to go and get something' point of view.

At the end of the day we should be very thankful we don't have yet another organisation owned by some vile media mogul like Rupert Murdoch. The BBC, along with the NHS, are one of the last few state-funded and publicly owned institutions and I believe it should remain that way. We're already far too down the road of privatising everything, let's not take that any further.

No. Just no.

We should all be proud that we all pay into and effectively share an institution collectively, which can be enjoyed by not only everyone in the UK, but in many places around the world. An institution that has its content and programming as its main, primary focus, rather than yet another organisation owned by a Rupert Murdoch type only interested in profit and more importantly, shoving its own political allegiance down our throats.

God forbid that ever happens to the BBC. Just imagine it...The Sun TV. Or how about the UK's version of Fox News?

Generally hold them in extremely high regard. Their news reporting is, for the most part, neutral and informative and without extremity or fearmongering (ITV, Sky, Fox...). Their programming is generally excellent too - there's a whole range of programmes I could complain about and often do (the majority of BBC3 shows, the soaps and all of the daytime antique crap).

I don't like the idea of paying towards the judges on the Voice but it's such a negligible amount and the available good-quality programmes sort of makes up for it. If you think about all of the Sir David Attenborough documentaries, uncountable comedy classics and their world coverage they're a far more valuable broadcaster than the others.

Lovin' your work, guys ..... :thumbs:

As a fully paid-up licence-holder, I only ever watch BBC, never ITV, C4 & C5 infrequently and I cancelled all TV subscriptions (terrestrial, satellite or otherwise) years ago.

I refuse to watch any program with advertisements in and will find mechanisms to bypass advertising in programs containing same.

:pipe:

[Pyramid*]

[/B

]Pyramid I am done with you on this one, read this post of yours again, you doubt we do and say you feel we dont pay for the TV Licence, if I and others with me don't pay the licence we break the law.

I am absolutely amazed at you on this,if you cannot see that I am offended and that you 'did' question my integrity as I had already stated we do pay for the Licence then that is in reality your problem not mine.

I take massive exception to the comment above, it does question my integrity, I have asked you to retract it but you then try to turn things as being my fault.

The comments above are pretty clear and they are yours no one elses and they are insulting and wrong to be placed on a public forum about anyone..


I will say it again Joey.

I did not suggest in any way, shape or form: that the household in which you live does not pay for a tv lic.

I asked very specifically how YOU contribute towards it - I also asked if you would pay for it when you were in a position to.

Oddly enough: both of very crucial points Joey appear to have been side stepped, not by me: but by you.

surprising to be honest that you are reading into comments,things that I simply have not said.

[Kate!]

Fundis on the run! :D


:hugesmile: Wanted!!!! Female Fundis heading for the border, do not approach, these women have handbags and are lethal.

[Pyramid*]

:hugesmile: Wanted!!!! Female Fundis heading for the border, do not approach, these women have handbags and are lethal.


What ever happened to this being a serious thread... you know, serious debate and all that.:conf:

[Pyramid*]

Oh and I even answered your question as when I am on my own in my own place although lord knows why I should have felt the need to.

My sincere apologies that I missed that point Joey.

[Kizzy]

Just trying to lighten the mood pyra....Could get offended at your 'no better than benefit cheats' comment but I won't.
You could just as easily have said politicians who fiddle their expenses...
Thats fraud too.

[joeysteele]

I will say it again Joey.

I did not suggest in any way, shape or form: that the household in which you live does not pay for a tv lic.

I asked very specifically how YOU contribute towards it - I also asked if you would pay for it when you were in a position to.

Oddly enough: both of very crucial points Joey appear to have been side stepped, not by me: but by you.

surprising to be honest that you are reading into comments,things that I simply have not said.

I am not sitting at Uni with nothing, I do quite a bit of things actually and I also have an allowance given to me from my late Grandmother, not that any of that is your business,it is even worse if you are insinuating I wouldn't be paying my share of the licence, what kind of person would I be if I didn't want to share expenses with my fellow housemates.

My income Pyramid, whatever it is.however I have it is actually none of your business anyway, far too intrusive questions and ones I wouldn't even dream of asking you.

Far from me reading into your comments things you say you haven't said. it seems more like to me that you cannot seem to read the comments you have said and the way you have said them too.
That's it I am off,you can talk to yourself now but I am offended by you and you are wrong Pyramid, words I never believed I would be saying to you ever.

[Pyramid*]

Just trying to lighten the mood pyra....Could get offended at your 'no better than benefit cheats' comment but I won't.
You could just as easily have said politicians who fiddle their expenses...
Thats fraud too.

I know - but it is a serious debates thread and others are infracted for glib comments - just trying to factor in some consistency and all that.

I also agree wholeheartedly about politicians on the fiddle too.... but that's a whole different topic altother.

As for you taking offence: I'm not entirely sure why you (or anyone who doesn't pay their tv licence) should - as it is, technically a criminal offence to not pay up. I understand you and others not agreeing with it: I disgaree with your reason for refusing to pay though. That's the difference.

It's not really all that different from people who don't pay their car insurance, don't pay their car tax: the rise in cost of all these things is because of people who don't. It's entirely your choice to not pay - but that doesn't mean you or anyone else should take offence - because it is in effect: meaing others who do pay: have to pay more in the long wrong. I don't agree with that.

I am not sitting at Uni with nothing, I do quite a bit of things actually and I also have an allowance given to me from my late Grandmother, not that any of that is your business,it is even worse if you are insinuating I wouldn't be paying my share of the licence, what kind of person would I be if I didn't want to share expenses with my fellow housemates.

My income Pyramid, whatever it is.however I have it is actually none of your business anyway, far too intrusive questions and ones I wouldn't even dream of asking you.

Far from me reading into your comments things you say you haven't said. it seems more like to me that you cannot seem to read the comments you have said and the way you have said them too.
That's it I am off,you can talk to yourself now but I am offended by you and you are wrong Pyramid, words I never believed I would be saying to you ever.


I didn't ask what your income was Joey. I didn't suggest you were at Uni doing nothing.

I didn't ask about the whereabout of money you have.

I didn't say all students were wasters.

I didn't say your household did not pay for a tv lic - I asked how it came about that divvy up towards it.

Perhaps as I say: take less time taking offence - and a little more time reading what I wrote.

[MTVN]

Pyramid you also posted a non-serious comment didn't you?

You big ass criminal that you are. I hope this does not lead you down the path to utter ruination Kate.

:D

[InOne]

I don't mind the BBC and do watch it a fair bit, also like their radio stations. I used to pay my TV licence by direct debit every month. Now I don't pay it at all.

[Pyramid*]

Pyramid you also posted a non-serious comment didn't you?

Which one was that then?

the one about Kate not starting on the path to ruination? It's a fair point... one thing leads to another.

Or are you less interested in keeping the thread on topic - and more interesting in finding fault MTVN - rather than removing the posts which are more suited to Chat?

surely this could have been addressed via pm MTVN.

Or perhaps I should simply have reported Kate and Kizzy's comments.

If you prefer that I do that, that's fine. I was actually hoping that a mod would actually steer the topic back to it's serious dicussion theme....

[MTVN]

*sigh*

As you were, I can't be bothered getting into this Pyramid, I've made my point

[Pyramid*]

I have to laugh at those here who are admitting to not paying their tv licence - yet slag off programmes etc that the BBC show and how much they spend on thing such as The Voice and goodness knows what else.

It's very easy to complain when you don't pay for the service that you use.

[Kate!]

Stop talking billocks Pyra.

:bored:

[InOne]

I'm pretty sure my mum pays it though. hehe

[Pyramid*]

*sigh*

As you were, I can't be bothered getting into this Pyramid, I've made my point


Which point did you make MTVN.

My point was in fact on topic...... one act of non payment and getting away with it, could indeed give rise to avoiding other payments that many citizens pay....... the grin I used was to signify that I was not altogether serious that Kate was going to start dealing in Class A drugs or such like.

[joeysteele]

I didn't ask what your income was Joey. I didn't suggest you were at Uni doing nothing.

I didn't ask about the whereabout of money you have.

I didn't say all students were wasters.

I didn't say your household did not pay for a tv lic - I asked how it came about that divvy up towards it.

Perhaps as I say: take less time taking offence - and a little more time reading what I wrote.[/B]

Twist all you like Pyramid,you mentioned my income as to how could I pay for the licence,(you really have no right to mention such personal things anyway), you asked if I would pay the licence when on my own, you inferred you felt I did not pay my share of a licence now.I did read what you wrote and am insulted and greatly offended by the content.

You did and said those things, however, you are not big enough to admit you are wrong and apologise and retract that post as I have asked you to do twice now over the last hour.

Sadly that means I remain offended, nothing is resolved and you can therefore now have the last words as you like to have, even though those words are wrong ones.

[Pyramid*]

I'm pretty sure my mum pays it though. hehe


Given that you therefore are not the householder, nor responsible for the tv as such, that's not quite the same as not paying for it.

Your mum does.

[InOne]

Given that you therefore are not the householder, nor responsible for the tv as such, that's not quite the same as not paying for it.

Your mum does.

Which is what I just said...

[Pyramid*]

[/B]

Twist all you like Pyramid,you mentioned my income as to how could I pay for the licence,(you really have no right to mention such personal things anyway), you asked if I would pay the licence when on my own, you inferred you felt I did not pay my share of a licence now.I did read what you wrote and am insulted and greatly offended by the content.

You did and said those things, however, you are not big enough to admit you are wrong and apologise and retract that post as I have asked you to do twice now over the last hour.

Sadly that means I remain offended, nothing is resolved and you can therefore now have the last words as you like to have, even though those words are wrong ones.


Please show me exactly where I mentioned or asked you about your income. I did not ask you how you COULD pay for it. Please stick to what I said Joey - and not what you are misreading.


I asked do you specifically divvy up and throw x amount of money into a kitty..... that is not asking about how you get your money, it is not asking how you have money, where you get it from.

[Pyramid*]

Which is what I just said...

which is what I confirmed as you saying.

[Kizzy]

I said I could get offended....I didn't say I was...
Why is it like benefit fraud as opposed to any other kind of fraud?...
Do you associate the avoidance to pay for this service with benefit claimants?

[Bollo]

I think the BBC on the whole make fairly decent programmes and although I have got a free TV licence for the last couple of years, I never begrudged paying it prior to that and I pay for sky so I have a variety of programmes to watch. To me TV is a luxury, not a necessity. People expect everything to be handed on a plate to them, rather than earning them

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=Pyramid*;.

Also I asked how you contribute to the TV licence - a question. I did not call you a liar so please do not pretend to read something that I did not say Joey. Thanks.[/QUOTE]



You asked how I contributed to the licence, to contribute to it would have to come out of my income whatever that is, so asking how I contributed to the licence inferred what income have I got to do so.

I am now going out, just read your own posts Pyramid, if you think they are not offensive then fine.
It is though for the person the comments are made to to say if they are offended by them or not, not for you to say they shouldn't be.

Kindly ensure you make sure you do not question my integrity again, it is not nice and it's simply wrong.

[Omah]

I think it's brilliant and I think £145 for the BBC news and documentaries that I (predominantly) watch is superb value for money. BBC4 is just about my favourite channel with its' "themed" evenings and programs that appeal to the intellectual enquirer. Obviously, any Attenborough series is worth the licence fee on its own.

IMO, no other broadcaster comes close to the quality of BBC programming (in general), although C4 and C5 run the occasional (documentary) series that appeals to me.

:idc:

[Pyramid*]

I said I could get offended....I didn't say I was...
Why is it like benefit fraud as opposed to any other kind of fraud?...
Do you associate the avoidance to pay for this service with benefit claimants?

Oh I'm not saying you personally were offended - I explained why I see no need for some to take offence if they admit to non payment. That's an indivual's personal choice: but it's not one I agree with for reasons I have mentioned throughout in various posts.

Benefit fraud - (and for the record: I don't mean those who rely on benefits in genuine cases - not the long term shirkers - which not everyone on benefits is)... I mean those who expect others to fork out for services that they use: but don't contribute to - or rather, feel it's fine for others to do so - as long as they benefit but don't have to pay for it.

It all comes from the same coffers in the long run - and comes from those who do pay - and who end up paying even more because of it.

[Pyramid*]

You asked how I contributed to the licence, to contribute to it would have to come out of my income whatever that is, so asking how I contributed to the licence inferred what income have I got to do so.

I am now going out, just read your own posts Pyramid, if you think they are not offensive then fine.
It is though for the person the comments are made to to say if they are offended by them or not, not for you to say they shouldn't be.

Kindly ensure you make sure you do not question my integrity again, it is not nice and it's simply wrong.

For goodness sake Joey - you have called me a liar time and time again on this thread and not once have you been able to back up anything that you have accused me of... you don't see me demanding apologies and retractions.


I didn't say students were wasters.

I didn't say you didn't pay for a lic.

I didn't ask where you got your money from.

I didn't ask how you make your income or from where it is generated.

I didn't say your household didn't have a tv lic.


If you say you contribute to a tv licence - you clearly have means to do so: that goes without saying. That is not the same as asking about where you get your money from. There is much twisting of words going on and it isn't from me.

[Kizzy]

Oh I'm not saying you personally were offended - I explained why I see no need for some to take offence if they admit to non payment. That's an indivual's personal choice: but it's not one I agree with for reasons I have mentioned throughout in various posts.

Benefit fraud - (and for the record: I don't mean those who rely on benefits in genuine cases - not the long term shirkers - which not everyone on benefits is)... I mean those who expect others to fork out for services that they use: but don't contribute to - or rather, feel it's fine for others to do so - as long as they benefit but don't have to pay for it.

It all comes from the same coffers in the long run - and comes from those who do pay - and who end up paying even more because of it.

That is not the definition of benefit fraud...
Benefit Fraud is a criminal offence that occurs when somebody knowingly or dishonestly receives Benefit when they are not entitled to it.
Fails to tell us about a change in their circumstances;
Gives false information in relation to their claim;
Leaves out information from their claim

Thats benefit fraud.

This is not...
QUOTE:
David Laws, the former Liberal Democrat minister, being ordered to apologise for illicitly claiming more than £100,000 in expenses to pay his boyfriend.

Mr Laws, one of Nick Clegg’s most trusted allies, is to be suspended from the House of Commons for seven days. It is the most serious punishment yet handed to an MP by the parliamentary authorities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/8511052/MPs-vote-for-reform-of-new-expenses-system.html

7 days off...What a 'punishment'

[Pyramid*]

That is not the definition of benefit fraud...
Benefit Fraud is a criminal offence that occurs when somebody knowingly or dishonestly receives Benefit when they are not entitled to it.
Fails to tell us about a change in their circumstances;
Gives false information in relation to their claim;
Leaves out information from their claim

Thats benefit fraud.

This is not...
QUOTE:
David Laws, the former Liberal Democrat minister, being ordered to apologise for illicitly claiming more than £100,000 in expenses to pay his boyfriend.

Mr Laws, one of Nick Clegg’s most trusted allies, is to be suspended from the House of Commons for seven days. It is the most serious punishment yet handed to an MP by the parliamentary authorities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/8511052/MPs-vote-for-reform-of-new-expenses-system.html

7 days off...What a 'punishment'

Not paying your TV licence is also a criminal offence.



Watching TV without a valid licence is a criminal offence. This can lead to prosecution, a court appearance and a fine of up to £1,000 (not including legal costs).




It is exactly the same as the very words you used yourself: non tv lic payers do receive a benefit that they knowing know that they are not entitled to. They are benefitting from a service which they are receiving dishonestly and knowingly doing so.

As per your own words above:

"when somebody knowingly or dishonestly receives Benefit when they are not entitled to it".

[Kizzy]

Not paying your TV licence is also a criminal offence.




It is exactly the same as the very words you used yourself: non tv lic payers do receive a benefit that they knowing know that they are not entitled to. They are benefitting from a service which they are receiving dishonestly and knowingly doing so.

As per your own words above:

"when somebody knowingly or dishonestly receives Benefit when they are not entitled to it".

If you use your laptop via your neighbours wireless internet you are benefitting from a service ...Is that akin to benefit fraud?
I question your use of the term 'benefit fraud' as I feel you are suggesting that those fraudulently claiming benefits are the only ones who can be associated with this type of offence...
As I have proved it is across the social spectrum.... The politician in my quote had too benefitted from £100'000 of 'services'

Yet this is not a criminal offence...Why so?

Not so black and white is it (can you still get black and white licences?)

[waterhog]

kizzy - i am reporting you to the beeb <

[Pyramid*]

If you use your laptop via your neighbours wireless internet you are benefitting from a service ...Is that akin to benefit fraud?
I question your use of the term 'benefit fraud' as I feel you are suggesting that those fraudulently claiming benefits are the only ones who can be associated with this type of offence...
As I have proved it is across the social spectrum.... The politician in my quote had too benefitted from £100'000 of 'services'

Yet this is not a criminal offence...Why so?

Not so black and white is it (can you still get black and white licences?)

Everything you ever wanted to know....but were afraid to ask....

and I never suggested anything about only those claiming benefits fraudulently as being the only ones who don't pay for their tv licence... I said I equated it to the same thing... regardless of their social standing, or where the get their money from.
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/

we aren't discussing politicians and their fiddles though, and what we regard as what should be criminal activity and what should not.... that's not what the thread is about.

[Kizzy]

Everything you ever wanted to know....but were afraid to ask....

we aren't discussing politicians and their fiddles though, and what we regard as what should be criminal activity and what should not.... that's not what the thread is about.

We were not discussing benefit cheats either, you brought them into the equation, you did that to reinforce your point...
I brought in the politicians in the reinforce mine, fair dos pyra....

[Pyramid*]

We were not discussing benefit cheats either, you brought them into the equation, you did that to reinforce your point...
I brought in the politicians in the reinforce mine, fair dos pyra....

Fair dos Kizzy.

Now .... about this tv licence....

;)

[Kizzy]

Fair dos Kizzy.

Now .... about this tv licence....

;)

ee its criminal.... ;)

[Pyramid*]

ee its criminal.... ;)


T'is indeed lass, it be that right enough, by 'eck. Not quite a hanging offence... ;)

I actually do think it should be free to more than it is though -for a variety of reasons: - there is a sense of unfairness but then again: that applies to an awful lot of things in life. If it was : I guess that the ones who do pay up, would have to pay even more: so that thought is one of the those 'dilemma' situs.

[Pyramid*]

ee its criminal.... ;)


T'is indeed lass, it be that right enough, by 'eck. Not quite a hanging offence... ;)

I actually do think it should be free to more than it is though -for a variety of reasons: - there is a sense of unfairness but then again: that applies to an awful lot of things in life. If is was : I guess that the ones who do pay up, would have to pay even more: so that thought is one of the those 'dilemma' situs.

[Vicky.]

On a thread on this a while back someone told me that its not only the bbc we are paying for with a tv license but the upkeep of the antennas and whatever that transmit any live TV.

I dont pay a license. But I very very rarely watch anything as its broadcast, I prefer to catch up online because I hate watching a series and having to wait a week inbetween each episode..or watch dvds or whatever. I watch nothing at all on the BBC either, so I dont feel bad.

TV license people have started sending me demands to pay, which I just bin immediately without even reading anymore. Judge me if you like, I will not pay for something I dont use :)

[Niamh.]

On a thread on this a while back someone told me that its not only the bbc we are paying for with a tv license but the upkeep of the antennas and whatever that transmit any live TV.

I dont pay a license. But I very very rarely watch anything as its broadcast, I prefer to catch up online because I hate watching a series and having to wait a week inbetween each episode..or watch dvds or whatever. I watch nothing at all on the BBC either, so I dont feel bad.

TV license people have started sending me demands to pay, which I just bin immediately without even reading anymore. Judge me if you like, I will not pay for something I dont use :)

There's talk over here of changing it from a TV License to a Media license so basically covers computers too :bored:

[Vicky.]

There's talk over here of changing it from a TV License to a Media license so basically covers computers too :bored:

Meh I just see it as a way of fleecing you out of more money tbh. If they could charge you for breathing (oxygen tax or whatever) someone would do it :joker:

Just seems stupid to me, we pay over the odds for stuff anyway and then you get loads of tax or 'compulsary' payments to make for using it all

[Niamh.]

Meh I just see it as a way of fleecing you out of more money tbh. If they could charge you for breathing (oxygen tax or whatever) someone would do it :joker:

Just seems stupid to me, we pay over the odds for stuff anyway and then you get loads of tax or 'compulsary' payments to make for using it all

I know, I pay mine but only cos they kept sending us letters and I got scared :laugh: I wouldn't mind but I don't even have the Irish channels!

[Vicky.]

I know, I pay mine but only cos they kept sending us letters and I got scared :laugh: I wouldn't mind but I don't even have the Irish channels!

The letters dont bother me. They claim to be able to tell what you are watching and when...but if thats true then they will know no bbc ever is on my telly, that I watch 'live' tv maybe once a fortnight for an hour (I much prefer watching online version ones with the ads removed a few days later :D) and they can check my internet history too if they ever come to call, which they havent in a long time despite a load of letters threatening court action. I got one threatening to take me to court if I didnt reply in a week...then a week later got another just saying I needed to pay whatever, that was a fair few months ago. I think they just try to scare you into paying tbh or I would have been in court by now. :laugh:

[Pyramid*]

On a thread on this a while back someone told me that its not only the bbc we are paying for with a tv license but the upkeep of the antennas and whatever that transmit any live TV.

I dont pay a license. But I very very rarely watch anything as its broadcast, I prefer to catch up online because I hate watching a series and having to wait a week inbetween each episode..or watch dvds or whatever. I watch nothing at all on the BBC either, so I dont feel bad.

TV license people have started sending me demands to pay, which I just bin immediately without even reading anymore. Judge me if you like, I will not pay for something I dont use :)


sort of....


The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders.

You don't need a licence if you don't use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD.

[Marsh.]

Joeysteele, I fail to see the relevance of your PM to me.

Please, stop overdramatising everything. I have never presumed to know you, or made assertions about you as a person. I have merely stated what I thought about a post you made with my opinion on it. I don't see the need for an essay telling me what an opinion is and the like. I suggest you stop taking everything so personally. People will not agree with you, it's a fact of life.

[MTVN]

Joeysteele, I fail to see the relevance of your PM to me.

Please, stop overdramatising everything. I have never presumed to know you, or made assertions about you as a person. I have merely stated what I thought about a post you made with my opinion on it. I don't see the need for an essay telling me what an opinion is and the like. I suggest you stop taking everything so personally. People will not agree with you, it's a fact of life.

I fail to see the relevance of your PM's with Joey to this thread, if you start up a conversation by PM then keep it there

[Kizzy]

sort of....

The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders.

You don't need a licence if you don't use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD.

hehehe where is this quote from, the BBC?

[Marsh.]

I fail to see the relevance of your PM's with Joey to this thread, if you start up a conversation by PM then keep it there

There is no conversation via PM, he's sent me one full of rubbish. And I don't wish to get into a PM war so wanted to make my point clear in the relevant thread. Ie. It wasn't personal, it was an opinion on a post he made.

[Kate!]

Like Vicky, I have had letters, tons of them in my case as I have never paid it. I read them at first now they just go straight in the bin. They are never addressed to me specifically, just to the legal occupier. I can't say I don't watch anything on BBC, but having thought on it, it is actually minimal, Eastenders, some documentaries, and recently the Voice. I mainly watch ITV, c4 e4 etc.

I'll never pay it unless they forcibly take it direct from my income. Which considering I've had my own home for over 20 years, is taking them a long time, so doubt it. :laugh:

[Jack_]

I take issue with people whom watch the BBC's programming, no matter how little, yet refuse to pay the licence fee.

Surely if you're watching their documentaries especially, and even their other programming, and enjoying it, then you should think...oh actually, yeah, maybe I should pay for this because it's worth it and something I enjoy? As I've said throughout this thread, the BBC is an institution we should all be proud of. Quite frankly, I resent the idea of everything being privately owned, what a disastrous and frightening prospect...one which we're already heading down.

[Kizzy]

I take issue with people whom watch the BBC's programming, no matter how little, yet refuse to pay the licence fee.

Surely if you're watching their documentaries especially, and even their other programming, and enjoying it, then you should think...oh actually, yeah, maybe I should pay for this because it's worth it and something I enjoy? As I've said throughout this thread, the BBC is an institution we should all be proud of. Quite frankly, I resent the idea of everything being privately owned, what a disastrous and frightening prospect...one which we're already heading down.

I have an issue with politicians who fraudulently claim £100'000 expenses and get a weeks holiday as punishment...But watchagonnado?....

[Jack_]

I have an issue with politicians who fraudulently claim £100'000 expenses and get a weeks holiday as punishment...But watchagonnado?....

As do I...and I thought you'd have known that.

But what relevance does that have to this thread or indeed my post?

[Omah]

The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders.

You don't need a licence if you don't use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD.



I didn't know that, so I checked and, of course, you're right, but :

As it is our duty to ensure that everyone in the UK who needs a licence has one, we may visit your address to check that no licence is required. It's unfortunately necessary to do this, as when we make contact on these visits, almost one in five people are found to need a TV Licence. Please be assured that this is a routine visit, and will take no more than a few minutes. If we find during the visit that you do in fact need a licence, you'll need to pay the full licence fee, and you could risk prosecution and a fine of up to £1,000.

I still watch some TV "live" on a set, usually with other people, although, on a daily basis, I tend to use catch-up and downloads to watch programs on other devices. With various summer "events" approaching, "live" use is bound to increase, so I'll keep paying the licence.

:idc:

[joeysteele]

There is no conversation via PM, he's sent me one full of rubbish. And I don't wish to get into a PM war so wanted to make my point clear in the relevant thread. Ie. It wasn't personal, it was an opinion on a post he made.

My pm to you was to remove fron this thread a dispute I had with you, I think it best I ignore you and you ignore me from now on, we are instructed to take disputes to pm and I did so,the fact you chose to open it up publicly again puts you in the wrong in my view and any further harrassment and I will report my grievance which I do not want to do as I have never reported anyone for anything.
There would have been no pm war as you dramatically termed it,I sent you a single pm,one only, I even wished you well and suggested there was no need for a reply.
Had you chosen to reply there,that would have been the end of things,it would appear you are the one over dramatising, no one else and by coming on here again and addressing me personally rather than the topic,you are in fact the person carrying this on so it is best to ignore each other from now on.
I said all in my pm to you.I have no more at all to say you now.

[Kizzy]

As do I...and I thought you'd have known that.

But what relevance does that have to this thread or indeed my post?

How would I know that...I don't know you...And you don't know me?...

However....Theres no point throwing your hands in the air at the injustice of the poor poor BBC not recieving its full licence fee from every watcher of the BBC.

Making that a criminal offence therefore causing the do gooders to vomit with rage at anyone who fails to abide by the laws of the land.

Those who work within our walls of power are not punished for their indiscretions.... It stands to reason those mere mortals joe public are going to wake up and smell the coffee...surely?...

[Marsh.]

My pm to you was to remove fron this thread a dispute I had with you, I think it best I ignore you and you ignore me from now on, we are instructed to take disputes to pm and I did so,the fact you chose to open it up publicly again puts you in the wrong in my view and any further harrassment and I will report my grievance which I do not want to do as I have never reported anyone for anything.
There would have been no pm war as you dramatically termed it,I sent you a single pm,one only, I even wished you well and suggested there was no need for a reply.
Had you chosen to reply there,that would have been the end of things,it would appear you are the one over dramatising, no one else and by coming on here again and addressing me personally rather than the topic,you are in fact the person carrying this on so it is best to ignore each other from now on.
I said all in my pm to you.I have no more at all to say you now.


That's my confusion, there is no dispute. I commented on your post and you took it personally and asked me how I "know" you. My post never insinuated any such thing. Get over yourself. Report all you like, I have done nothing wrong.

I gave my opinion to something you posted, deal with it and move on like everybody else.

[Pyramid*]

The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders.

You don't need a licence if you don't use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD.

hehehe where is this quote from, the BBC?


the quote was direct from the tvlicencing website. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

the quote was direct from the tvlicencing website. :laugh:

Fab! thats my defence.....:)

[Pyramid*]

How would I know that...I don't know you...And you don't know me?...

However....Theres no point throwing your hands in the air at the injustice of the poor poor BBC not recieving its full licence fee from every watcher of the BBC.

Making that a criminal offence therefore causing the do gooders to vomit with rage at anyone who fails to abide by the laws of the land.

Those who work within our walls of power are not punished for their indiscretions.... It stands to reason those mere mortals joe public are going to wake up and smell the coffee...surely?...

I have no vomitting with rage. I feel cheated. :(

Those who work within our walls do sometimes get punished - quite a few have been in the nick for various things... but as I said: this thread isn't about that.This isn't about politicians and what they may or may not do that may be morally considered criminal.

[Pyramid*]

Fab! thats my defence.....:)

Not much of a defence when you appear not to have read anything about it.... it's not just covering the BBC. ;)

[Kizzy]

I have no vomitting with rage. I feel cheated. :(

Those who work within our walls do sometimes get punished - quite a few have been in the nick for various things... but as I said: this thread isn't about that.This isn't about politicians and what they may or may not do that may be morally considered criminal.

This is not about you though ....Please don't think it is.
No maybe about it pyra.....
We all feel cheated because we are all being cheated

[Kizzy]

Not much of a defence when you appear not to have read anything about it.... it's not just covering the BBC. ;)

Don't patronise me... You were really rude to joey today and I will not tolerate that.
State your point, stick to the facts and accept I feel as passionate as you do but from a different perspective.

[Pyramid*]

This is not about you though ....Please don't think it is.
No maybe about it pyra.....
We all feel cheated because we are all being cheated

I know.... but I feel cheated, I wanted vomit (mostly coz I actually don't feel too good hence being up at this ungodly hour when I have work!).

As I say: I do feel that if they are going to spend whatever they spent on detector vans and letters etc: what's the point if they don't follow it up. It does make it easy to avoid paying - can't argue with that .... it's been the same though for as long as I can remember - even when I was a kid.

[Pyramid*]

Don't patronise me... You were really rude to joey today and I will not tolerate that.
State your point, stick to the facts and accept I feel as passionate as you do but from a different perspective.

I wasn't patronising you. If you had paid any attention to that website: you'll have realised it wasn't all about the BBC.

I stated my point, I stuck to the facts: and I stand by them: if that is your defence, then you haven't read the website and what it details - it is not about the BBC alone.

Odd that you suddenly bounce in about Joey now .... despite having been on the thread most of earlier today...... no one said you couldn't be passionate - but it still doesn't negate the fact that you are indeed watching illegally.

That's your choice and you are quite entitled to make it - and of course: have to accept the punishment that goes with it should you be prosecuted.

[Kizzy]

I am not bouncing anywhere..Detector vans? they were only ever a gimmick....
I will accept my fate as a decent citizen...Right after my fellow citizen David Laws accepts his ...

[Pyramid*]

I am not bouncing anywhere..Detector vans? they were only ever a gimmick....
I will accept my fate as a decent citizen...Right after my fellow citizen David Laws accepts his ...

Still trying to turn this into a political debate then Kizzy I see.

[Kizzy]

Still trying to turn this into a political debate then Kizzy I see.

Nope I live in the UK and so does he...Why should my actions be percieved as deviant and his not?...It makes no sense is all

[Pyramid*]

Nope I live in the UK and so does he...Why should my actions be percieved as deviant and his not?...It makes no sense is all

It's not some party polical argument Kizzy.

The Law has been determined on this one - whether you agree with it or not. Thems the rules of this here land... the UK.

[Kizzy]

If you agree that for not having a £145 licence you are breaking the law when another can defraud the system to the tune of £100'000 and nobody bats an eyelid...Then maybe the UK is more corrupt than I thought...
And the more intelligent,educated people are willing to accept this as the norm the more I worry.......

[BBfanUSA]

wait, BBC is still public? Wow...they have commercials on BBC America. So TV shows like Doctor Who and the documentaries are made with Taxpayers dollars?

Anyway I don't know why people are pissed about the BBC. I see the BBC as one of the most prominent news organizations in the world. Way better than CNN (And there's a huge gap since there is in fact a channel that's more blantantly biased than Fox News) MSNBC, and the other news organizations.

[Pyramid*]

If you agree that for not having a £145 licence you are breaking the law when another can defraud the system to the tune of £100'000 and nobody bats an eyelid...Then maybe the UK is more corrupt than I thought...

And the more intelligent,educated people are willing to accept this as the norm the more I worry.......


You don't have to worry about the more intelligent people ...... I'm sure they can worry and think for themselves. about whether they wish to be regarded as a criminal or not.

Who is saying no one bats an eyelid at serious fraud as you are hinting at - I most certainly agreed with you 100% when you raised it (time and time again) thorughtout the thread - and I am quite sure many others would also concur.

However, we are not speaking of comparisons to the tune of £100k though - we are speaking of one thiing: tv licence that costs less than a family of 4 or 5 might spend on a night out in a nice restarant once a year.

It may not sound a lot of money: but multiply that by those who do not pay - and then you see the bigger picture (ya see what I did there ;)). Others have to cough up even more for those who don't pay.

That's hardly fair either is it or those who do act in accordance with the law - it's still making other people pay for your share. What's fair about comparison?

[arista]

"they have commercials on BBC America."

Of course they do
they are a Commercial Company.

BBC UK is still funded by UK Tax payers
its well out of date and needs to get rid of charging
the UK public.

[Jack_]

How would I know that...I don't know you...And you don't know me?...

However....Theres no point throwing your hands in the air at the injustice of the poor poor BBC not recieving its full licence fee from every watcher of the BBC.

Making that a criminal offence therefore causing the do gooders to vomit with rage at anyone who fails to abide by the laws of the land.

Those who work within our walls of power are not punished for their indiscretions.... It stands to reason those mere mortals joe public are going to wake up and smell the coffee...surely?...

Because I'd have thought, seeing as you take such a vested interest in my posts, that you'd have known I'm highly critical of the incumbent government, most other political parties, and politics in the UK itself.

I also thought you'd know that I believe that the laws of the land are a majority of the time set by those who are so far removed socially from the citizens they're governing that they are weighted in favour of those in power.

But the licence fee is one thing that I believe they've got right. One of the very few remaining strands of socialism we have left in this country and I resent the idea of that being abolished. We're already edging towards the prospect of the NHS being taken over by private investors, I absolutely do not want that happening to the BBC.

It's rare that I agree with Pyramid, but as I've just explained I in no way disagree with any of what you've said with regards to MP's expenses and the like, but what relevance does that have in this thread exactly?

[BBfanUSA]

"they have commercials on BBC America."

Of course they do
they are a Commercial Company.

BBC UK is still funded by UK Tax payers
its well out of date and needs to get rid of charging
the UK public.

So they're not under the same banner?

[Kizzy]

You don't have to worry about the more intelligent people ...... I'm sure they can worry and think for themselves. about whether they wish to be regarded as a criminal or not.

Who is saying no one bats an eyelid at serious fraud as you are hinting at - I most certainly agreed with you 100% when you raised it (time and time again) thorughtout the thread - and I am quite sure many others would also concur.

However, we are not speaking of comparisons to the tune of £100k though - we are speaking of one thiing: tv licence that costs less than a family of 4 or 5 might spend on a night out in a nice restarant once a year.

It may not sound a lot of money: but multiply that by those who do not pay - and then you see the bigger picture (ya see what I did there ;)). Others have to cough up even more for those who don't pay.

That's hardly fair either is it or those who do act in accordance with the law - it's still making other people pay for your share. What's fair about comparison?

This makes no sense... I don't care if they wish to be regarded as criminal the fact is they are not....As defrauding the state of £100'000 is not a criminal offence.
I appreciate we are dealing with what to you may seem small change, which as you say adds up.
Are we to believe that David Laws is the only politician who fraudulently claims expenses?....
Potentially millions of pounds annually are seeping from the taxpayers purse, if you want to talk comparisons.
However let us remember that not paying for a £145 TV licence is against the law, why I am not sure, unless by 'licence' the government really mean 'entertainment tax'.
A lot of people not paying a small amount...Some people defauding a large amount.
Both could be seen as theft in some respects, yet only one is considered a criminal act, does that not strike you as odd?
You can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time ......
I find it really hard to feel sory for those who are so blinkered they cannot or will not see that those who scamming thousands and thousands are no better than benefit fraudsters and TV licence avoiders.

[MTVN]

While I'd say the BBC is generally pretty good and does do it's best to maintain it's neutrality (even though I don't really think there is such a thing as "unbiased" news), I don't think that public broadcasting should necessarily be lauded and considered that superior to private broadcasting; ok so the former is not done for profit but there are still concerns that it can be used to serve vested interests, it's just that those interests are normally governmental and not financial. If you are to have a public broadcaster than there needs to be vigorous checks on it's independence, because all too often they've become tools of the government as a means to suppress opposing views, as is the case in a lot of countries (Syria, North Korea etc.)

Again I'm not really talking about the BBC here, just public broadcasting in general

[Kizzy]

Because I'd have thought, seeing as you take such a vested interest in my posts, that you'd have known I'm highly critical of the incumbent government, most other political parties, and politics in the UK itself.

I also thought you'd know that I believe that the laws of the land are a majority of the time set by those who are so far removed socially from the citizens they're governing that they are weighted in favour of those in power.

But the licence fee is one thing that I believe they've got right. One of the very few remaining strands of socialism we have left in this country and I resent the idea of that being abolished. We're already edging towards the prospect of the NHS being taken over by private investors, I absolutely do not want that happening to the BBC.

It's rare that I agree with Pyramid, but as I've just explained I in no way disagree with any of what you've said with regards to MP's expenses and the like, but what relevance does that have in this thread exactly?

Jack stop thinking....:)

I would prefer to see our public services remain unprivatised...
You would have to live in a hole in the ground if you thought for one minute the news and programming on the BBC were not controlled by those with money and power.
Again I use it as a comparison, if you cannot see it then I don't see how I could make it any clearer jack sorry.

[Pyramid*]

This makes no sense... I don't care if they wish to be regarded as criminal the fact is they are not....As defrauding the state of £100'000 is not a criminal offence.
I appreciate we are dealing with what to you may seem small change, which as you say adds up.
Are we to believe that David Laws is the only politician who fraudulently claims expenses?....
Potentially millions of pounds annually are seeping from the taxpayers purse, if you want to talk comparisons.
However let us remember that not paying for a £145 TV licence is against the law, why I am not sure, unless by 'licence' the government really mean 'entertainment tax'.
A lot of people not paying a small amount...Some people defauding a large amount.
Both could be seen as theft in some respects, yet only one is considered a criminal act, does that not strike you as odd?
You can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time ......
I find it really hard to feel sory for those who are so blinkered they cannot or will not see that those who scamming thousands and thousands are no better than benefit fraudsters and TV licence avoiders.

At the risk of repeating myself - this is not a Political Party Broadcast Kizzy.

Plenty of very politically minded threads for you to vent your disgust at the Tories for - you know, the ones that inherited what Labour left for them after..... oh, let me think, about ten years or so? Can you try to remain on topic - after all, this is not about only the BBC, the TV licence encompasses so much more.

For the sake of civility, I would politely ask that you refrain from being quite so sanctimonious with comments suc as such as 'you feel sorrry for those who are so blinkered that they they cannot or will not see.....". People are entitle to their opinion Kizzy, without the need for such withering words. It really is unnecessary and adds nothing to good debate. I understand your opinion, I respect your right to your opinoin on not paying for a tv lic, I simply don't agree with it.

You may not agree with me, but the bottom line is and the fact of the matter is: not paying for a tv licence and watching the live services in the manner you do: is a criminal offence - that is fact and no matter what you bring into play as a deflective on the topic: will not change that.

It matters not what other things out there are not a criminal offence that you regard as 'should be' - it does not dilute the matter of tv licencing and the legalities that surround it, and the reason that it is exists currently.

[Marsh.]

I am struggling to understand how the answer to protesting against someone else's criminality is by committing it yourself. Doesn't that make you as bad as the politicians you're dead set against?

[Pyramid*]

Jack stop thinking....:)

I would prefer to see our public services remain unprivatised...
You would have to live in a hole in the ground if you thought for one minute the news and programming on the BBC were not controlled by those with money and power.

Again I use it as a comparison, if you cannot see it then I don't see how I could make it any clearer jack sorry.


Like anything else in this world in a similar footing Kizzy.... the BBC is a business when all is said and done.

Businesses run on money and power.

Here's an interesting bit of reading. Their Annual Report & Trust Statment.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/resources/library/BBC/pdf/licence_fee_trust_statement_110705.pdf

Page 26 onwards has some good points - including many recommendations covering the current use internet access for non live streaming.

[Kate!]

Oh dear, are you still beating this to death Pyra. I don't think its Kizzy who's not staying on topic.....plus the thread is about the BBC primarily, not JUST the licence fee. I didn't intend the thread to be used to repeatedly hammer home the fact that you think we are criminals, fine, we get it. I accept it. Once you made the point why keep repeating it.

Can I politely request that the thread moves on, or is closed if the sniping continues.

Now, The BBC...are they doing a good job? We've dealt with licensing more than enough. How about quality of programmes etc?

[Niamh.]

Oh dear, are you still beating this to death Pyra. I don't think its Kizzy who's not staying on topic,.the thread is about the BBC primarily, not just the licence fee. I didn't intend the thread to be used to repeatedly hammer home the fact that you think we are criminals, fine, we get it. I accept it. Once you made the point why keep repeating it.

Can I politely request that the thread moves on, or is closed if the sniping continues.

Now, The BBC...are they doing a good job? We've dealt with licensing more than enough. How about quality of programmes etc?

I think you should have the option of not receiving the BBC if you don't like the channel and don't want to pay the license. Like I said I pay my licence fee but I don't even have any of the Irish channels............that's infuriating

[thesheriff443]

i pay it in one go im not happy but thats life.

[Marsh.]

I think you should have the option of not receiving the BBC if you don't like the channel and don't to pay the license. Like I said I pay my licence fee but I don't even have any of the Irish channels............that's infuriating

Unfortunately, they know just how much money they'd lose if people had the option. Given that you don't need a license to watch BBC iPlayer or other catch up services.

[Livia]

My Dad has Sky and pays a fortune every month for it. The only thing he watches on it that he couldn't see on Freeview is football and the odd film. And some sporting events and films cost extra. By comparison, I don't consider the TV licence that bad considering what you get, and it doesn't just pay for the BBC as has already been covered at length.

I do think the BBC has wasted a lost of money with its costly relocation and I'll be really sad to see the iconic Broadcasting Centre close in 2015.

[joeysteele]

Now, The BBC...are they doing a good job? We've dealt with licensing more than enough. How about quality of programmes etc?


I am happy to answer that *Kate* and I would say to that,yes on some things the BBC does have quality programmes,they are though getting fewer and fewer,apart from the documentaries,(they are really good) but I have seen many really good documentaries on other channels too.

All Sport is really good on the BBC, I do doubt that any other channel could do the justice to Wimbledon for instance that the BBC does.

I find a lot of it's news and political programmes largely biased, that is my view anyway.

It used to be really good on drama too but that is slipping and it's recent efforts with entertainment like the Voice that showed great promise at the start has been allowed to really slip away at massive cost too.

Take Eastenders out of the equation and you are left with little in the way of serial drama really worth watching.
Add to that, now at 'least' 20% of what it transmits are repeats whether recent or from way back.

Overall,I would say a third of programming now on the BBC is really good or outstanding and the other two thirds,nothing special at all and a good proportion of that hardly worth watching at all.

[Jesus.]

My Dad has Sky and pays a fortune every month for it. The only thing he watches on it that he couldn't see on Freeview is football and the odd film. And some sporting events and films cost extra. By comparison, I don't consider the TV licence that bad considering what you get, and it doesn't just pay for the BBC as has already been covered at length.

I do think the BBC has wasted a lost of money with its costly relocation and I'll be really sad to see the iconic Broadcasting Centre close in 2015.

I went to see the old pebble mill when I first moved up to Birmingham. It's a pile of rubble. BBC in Birmingham is in the soulless mailbox complex now.

[Kate!]

I think you should have the option of not receiving the BBC if you don't like the channel and don't have to pay the license. Like I said I pay my licence fee but I don't even have any of the Irish channels............that's infuriating

Now this is actually a great suggestion and were it available, I'd be on board. As I mentioned earlier I only really watch Eastenders and the odd documentary so could easily manage without.

Sadly though, as 08marsh said, it will never come into effect as the majority would probably seize the chance and the Beeb would lose a lot of annual revenue. They are too staid, rigid and grasping to ever consider other possibilities of bringing home the bacon. This is why I believe, as per the OP, that they need dragging into the modern age.

[Pyramid*]

Oh dear, are you still beating this to death Pyra. I don't think its Kizzy who's not staying on topic.....plus the thread is about the BBC primarily, not JUST the licence fee. I didn't intend the thread to be used to repeatedly hammer home the fact that you think we are criminals, fine, we get it. I accept it. Once you made the point why keep repeating it.

Can I politely request that the thread moves on, or is closed if the sniping continues.

Now, The BBC...are they doing a good job? We've dealt with licensing more than enough. How about quality of programmes etc?

It is a debate Kate, that is sometimes how debates work - I am the one who has avoided continually bringing into tow things that really have nothing to do with the thread (such as politicians etc).

The thread is about the BBC and the tv licence.

I think the quality of many of the programmes is excellent - otherwise I would not spend much of my time watching some fascinating documentaries, natural history programmes on all BBC channels - as well as those shown on other channels such as Eden etc; which were made for the BBC and shown on these channels.

Given that the BBC is not funded my major sponsorships (Virgin Media, Vodaphone etc) to generate revenue together with a plethora of continually interrupted programmes full of rubbish adverts for products that I mostly have no interest in - that money has to come from somewhere - partly in the licence, and partly from other sources.

I think it is part of what makes the UK great - not only for it's entertainments, dramas, documentaries, sport coverage: but also that it is world reknown as far as World News is concerned, it's numerous radio stations listened to all over the World.

It's worth far more than the some of the awful sat channels that are littered every 20 minutes with about 5 minutes full of adverts. It may have it's down sides: but it's pros most definately outweight its cons. IMO.

[joeysteele]

I think you should have the option of not receiving the BBC if you don't like the channel and don't have to pay the license. Like I said I pay my licence fee but I don't even have any of the Irish channels............that's infuriating

People should have that option at least yes. I would be all for that too.

[Pyramid*]

People should have that option at least yes. I would be all for that too.

I believe years ago, they used to be able to do exactly that. There are also ways which you don't have to pay for the licence, conditions under which I am sure you will already be aware of, given your previous campaigns over the last few years.

The advent of the internet etc has added to the 'bigger picture' and has not made what 'used' to be an easy option of having your old tv fixed so it could not receive BBC.....

They are looking into it Joey as they are aware that it appears less people may be viewing live streaming - as opposed to catching up with BBC I-Player etc. They are very aware of how modern technology is changing.

Like everything else of this magnitude though: it requires much research and careful analysis - which may unfortunately take years to come about.

[Kizzy]

At the risk of repeating myself - this is not a Political Party Broadcast Kizzy.

Plenty of very politically minded threads for you to vent your disgust at the Tories for - you know, the ones that inherited what Labour left for them after..... oh, let me think, about ten years or so? Can you try to remain on topic - after all, this is not about only the BBC, the TV licence encompasses so much more.

For the sake of civility, I would politely ask that you refrain from being quite so sanctimonious with comments suc as such as 'you feel sorrry for those who are so blinkered that they they cannot or will not see.....". People are entitle to their opinion Kizzy, without the need for such withering words. It really is unnecessary and adds nothing to good debate. I understand your opinion, I respect your right to your opinoin on not paying for a tv lic, I simply don't agree with it.

You may not agree with me, but the bottom line is and the fact of the matter is: not paying for a tv licence and watching the live services in the manner you do: is a criminal offence - that is fact and no matter what you bring into play as a deflective on the topic: will not change that.

It matters not what other things out there are not a criminal offence that you regard as 'should be' - it does not dilute the matter of tv licencing and the legalities that surround it, and the reason that it is exists currently.

I am well aware of that, just trying to clarify my point pyra,

Why are you suggesting my comparison to the expenses frauds are aimed specifically at the conservatives?...I was not party specific, any politician defrauding is the same in my book.

If it's not about the BBC what is it about?...What more does it encompass?

I am well aware it is a criminal offence, I still have no idea why?...Nobody has shed any light on that issue....

You feel my view is sanctamonious?...''Those who don't pay their TV licence are no better than benefit cheats''....that's sanctimonious....

[Kizzy]

I am struggling to understand how the answer to protesting against someone else's criminality is by committing it yourself. Doesn't that make you as bad as the politicians you're dead set against?

What criminality?...who else is a criminal?...
It makes them as bad as me marsh...That is my whole point. :)

[Kizzy]

Like anything else in this world in a similar footing Kizzy.... the BBC is a business when all is said and done.

Businesses run on money and power.

Here's an interesting bit of reading. Their Annual Report & Trust Statment.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/resources/library/BBC/pdf/licence_fee_trust_statement_110705.pdf

Page 26 onwards has some good points - including many recommendations covering the current use internet access for non live streaming.

If that is the case then why are they still funded by the public?...
You just shot holes in your point pyra.

[Marsh.]

What criminality?...who else is a criminal?...
It makes them as bad as me marsh...That is my whole point. :)

No my point was you are disgusted with someone's fraudulence, but is it as an excuse for your own illegal decisions? I'm a bit confused.

Isn't that like saying the next door neighbours nicked food from the local shop so I thought it would be fine for me to do it aswell?

[Kizzy]

No my point was you are disgusted with someone's fraudulence, but is it as an excuse for your own illegal decisions? I'm a bit confused.

Isn't that like saying the next door neighbours nicked food from the local shop so I thought it would be fine for me to do it aswell?

No it is nothing like that at all... If my neighbour stole it would be stealing, which is a criminal offence.
Fiddling expenses is not....Do you understand now?

Anyhoo, this is not what kate intended in her OP I respect that and I have made my point I feel.

[Pyramid*]

I am well aware of that, just trying to clarify my point pyra,

Why are you suggesting my comparison to the expenses frauds are aimed specifically at the conservatives?...I was not party specific, any politician defrauding is the same in my book.

If it's not about the BBC what is it about?...What more does it encompass?

I am well aware it is a criminal offence, I still have no idea why?...Nobody has shed any light on that issue....

You feel my view is sanctamonious?...''Those who don't pay their TV licence are no better than benefit cheats''....that's sanctimonious....

Someone who takes something fraudualanty is a cheat. Whether it be Government Benefits, or a service that is provided. I'd have thought that was clear to be honest. It is not santicmonious, it is fact.

As for your 'neighbour' vs the fiddling expenses or defrauding with comparison: You do realise (I already mentioned this pages ago) - that there have been Government members who have been charged and imprisoned having been found guilty of such - and made to pay back monies. Perhaps not in high numbers: but that still remains a fact.

In answer to your political party: no one needs question where your political allegiance lies: given that regardless of topic Kizzy - you condemn and criticise the current Government at every slight turn - whether it has to do with the subject matter or not.


Re your questions on the BBC, I've provided more than enough links. I shall not repeat doing that, nor repeat what both I and other posters have mentioned time and time again in respect of what the BBC offer. There are more than enough posts for you to have gleaned what else the BBC offer.

If that is the case then why are they still funded by the public?...
You just shot holes in your point pyra.

To use comparisons that are necessary to explain: before privitisation came into play:- Railways were government owned: they ran as business. Local Electricity companies: government controlled, ran like businesses. Local Gas companies - government controlled, ran like businesses. Royal Mail - government owned: ran and operates like a business. No holes, just reality. The BBC falls into the same bracket - it is ran like a business -and businesses need money, they also need power and people in power - to make the difficult decisions, to organise, to manage, to recruit, to train, hire staff, to look after the finances, to ensure Laws and Legislations are adhered to and every other little thing that is needed to keep any such organisation ticking along.

How many people now complain bitterly about the ever increasing cost of these now private services - and the quality of the services? Far more I suspect than when they were all overseen by the Government.

You want the BBC to become privitised and not use public funds? Do you also want the same with the NHS for example? Would you like the government to butt out of there too? What about the DWP - should that be taken from the Government and run as profit based organisation in the same way that private employment / recruitment agencies do?


Charities are not regarded as 'businesses' - but they still run for a profit.

Like I said, no holes Kizzy - just plain talking and common sense.

[Pyramid*]

Now this is actually a great suggestion and were it available, I'd be on board. As I mentioned earlier I only really watch Eastenders and the odd documentary so could easily manage without.

Sadly though, as 08marsh said, it will never come into effect as the majority would probably seize the chance and the Beeb would lose a lot of annual revenue. They are too staid, rigid and grasping to ever consider other possibilities of bringing home the bacon. This is why I believe, as per the OP, that they need dragging into the modern age.


"The Voice" ...... you say the BBC need dragging into the modern day age? There was me thinking that given all the rage these days for 'reality shows' (this forum being a great example of which ones are current and 'modern') - and that raise great topics for discussion - that's a very recent one that the BBC have tried out.

What about The Apprentice. Highly successful show - again, right into the modern age.

The comedies on BBC3 for example: all pretty much upto date a lot of them. Much of the older ones are still regarded as absolute classic and are often watched again and again, through sheer delight and laughter at some real comedy gems.

8 out of 10 cats springs straight to mind. Alan Carr - Chatty Man - just how in vogue do you want them to be!

The countless educational programmes. Childrens programmes. Quiz shows. Factual shows, religious shows. History programmes. Natural world documentaries.

are you really considering the range of gendre of programmes that the BBC offer - from one organisation. Not only that: they have to encompass a wide age group - from toddlers to OAPs and not home in on a specific demographic - they have to cover all bases.

There are plenty of other broadcasting channels out there filling our screens with far more dross that ever the BBC does, that for sure.

[Kate!]

"The Voice" ...... you say the BBC need dragging into the modern day age? There was me thinking that given all the rage these days for 'reality shows' (this forum being a great example of which ones are current and 'modern') - and that raise great topics for discussion - that's a very recent one that the BBC have tried out.

What about The Apprentice. Highly successful show - again, right into the modern age.

The comedies on BBC3 for example: all pretty much upto date a lot of them. Much of the older ones are still regarded as absolute classic and are often watched again and again, through sheer delight and laughter at some real comedy gems.

8 out of 10 cats springs straight to mind. Alan Carr - Chatty Man - just how in vogue do you want them to be!

The countless educational programmes. Childrens programmes. Quiz shows. Factual shows, religious shows. History programmes. Natural world documentaries.

are you really considering the range of gendre of programmes that the BBC offer - from one organisation. Not only that: they have to encompass a wide age group - from toddlers to OAPs and not home in on a specific demographic - they have to cover all bases.

There are plenty of other broadcasting channels out there filling our screens with far more dross that ever the BBC does, that for sure.

The Voice - has been a shambles from start to finish (Imo, but I'm sure I'm not alone) it was badly organised, a real shame considering the amount of talent, which incidentally is not reflected in the final line-up apart from one artist (Bo) but that's digressing. The voting system is piss poor and despite the knocks the X factor gets, the Voice is a very pale shadow. The premise of the show had/has great potential, but they stuffed it up.

8 out of 10 Cats on BBC1? Really?

Yes I am considering the range of genre the BBC offer, every channel offers a wide variety for all ages and tastes to make up a schedule, some good, some not so much. There are far too many repeats on the BBC, regardless of the fact that there are a lot of comedy classics, they shouldn't be charging for people to watch the same stuff over and over again, would you go to the cinema two weeks in a row and pay to watch exactly the same thing?

We are not discussing the dross other channels offer, though they too need to seriously buck their ideas up in some departments, I'm not just bashing the Beeb and saying they are bad, commercial tv is good. Not at all. But they don't charge for it and the Beeb do.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd welcome a system whereby you could opt out of having the channel and not paying, maybe even pay for view for certain programmes if people wanted to watch them badly enough as a side option? But with that I doubt anyone would, given that you don't have to pay to watch anything on Iplayer, so the only detriment would be not getting to watch stuff as it's actually shown. People would prefer to save their money for other things, like food and clothing, especially the less well off, which is a very large proportion of the population, considering the state of this country at the moment.

[Kizzy]

Someone who takes something fraudualanty is a cheat. Whether it be Government Benefits, or a service that is provided. I'd have thought that was clear to be honest. It is not santicmonious, it is fact.

As for your 'neighbour' vs the fiddling expenses or defrauding with comparison: You do realise (I already mentioned this pages ago) - that there have been Government members who have been charged and imprisoned having been found guilty of such - and made to pay back monies. Perhaps not in high numbers: but that still remains a fact.

In answer to your political party: no one needs question where your political allegiance lies: given that regardless of topic Kizzy - you condemn and criticise the current Government at every slight turn - whether it has to do with the subject matter or not.


Re your questions on the BBC, I've provided more than enough links. I shall not repeat doing that, nor repeat what both I and other posters have mentioned time and time again in respect of what the BBC offer. There are more than enough posts for you to have gleaned what else the BBC offer.



To use comparisons that are necessary to explain: before privitisation came into play:- Railways were government owned: they ran as business. Local Electricity companies: government controlled, ran like businesses. Local Gas companies - government controlled, ran like businesses. Royal Mail - government owned: ran and operates like a business. No holes, just reality. The BBC falls into the same bracket - it is ran like a business -and businesses need money, they also need power and people in power - to make the difficult decisions, to organise, to manage, to recruit, to train, hire staff, to look after the finances, to ensure Laws and Legislations are adhered to and every other little thing that is needed to keep any such organisation ticking along.

How many people now complain bitterly about the ever increasing cost of these now private services - and the quality of the services? Far more I suspect than when they were all overseen by the Government.

You want the BBC to become privitised and not use public funds? Do you also want the same with the NHS for example? Would you like the government to butt out of there too? What about the DWP - should that be taken from the Government and run as profit based organisation in the same way that private employment / recruitment agencies do?


Charities are not regarded as 'businesses' - but they still run for a profit.

Like I said, no holes Kizzy - just plain talking and common sense.

Yes they were, yet it still happens..how they ended up in prison when they had not committed any crime is a mystery, a couple of scapegoats to appease the public.....

Supposition, as I said I was not party specific.

Is the BBC owned by the government?
BBC worldwide who broadcast News24, Cbeebies, BBC HD, BBC GOLD, Dave, really, and yesterday to name a few do so with the help of Virgin Media.....


The rest of your post is so off topic and has no bearing on the discussion whatsoever.

[Pyramid*]

The Voice - has been a shambles from start to finish (Imo, but I'm sure I'm not alone) it was badly organised, a real shame considering the amount of talent, which incidentally is not reflected in the final line-up apart from one artist (Bo) but that's digressing. The voting system is piss poor and despite the knocks the X factor gets, the Voice is a very pale shadow. The premise of the show had/has great potential, but they stuffed it up.

8 out of 10 Cats on BBC1? Really?

Yes I am considering the range of genre the BBC offer, every channel offers a wide variety for all ages and tastes to make up a schedule, some good, some not so much. There are far too many repeats on the BBC, regardless of the fact that there are a lot of comedy classics, they shouldn't be charging for people to watch the same stuff over and over again, would you go to the cinema two weeks in a row and pay to watch exactly the same thing?

We are not discussing the dross other channels offer, though they too need to seriously buck there ideas up in some departments, I'm not just bashing the Beeb and saying they are bad, commercial tv is good. Not at all. But they don't charge for it and the Beeb do.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd welcome a system whereby you could opt out of having the channel and not paying, maybe even pay for view for certain programmes if people wanted to watch them badly enough as a sode option? But with that I doubt anyone would, given that you don't have to pay to watch anything on Iplayer, so the only detriment would be not getting to watch stuff as it's actually shown. People would prefer to save their money for other things, like food and clothing, especially the less well off, which is a very large proportion of the population, considering the state of this country at the moment.

The BBC aren't the reason for the country being in the state it is today: and to even identify that with the BBC is imo, nothing short of ludicrious.

We are not discussing other channels then? Okay. Not much else to say really seeing as it's already been said through the countless pages.

Please try to avoid speaking for the whole of the UK Kate - you don't - so you cannot say what people would prefer to save their money for or not.

Oh... please show me were I said 8 out of Ten cats was BBC 1..... really!! Oh I didn't. I suggest you check out where it is recorded (oh...at the BBC), produced by Endemol, broadcast via Ch4. Is it starting to make a little sense Kate?....just how much BBC involvement there is?

[Pyramid*]

Yes they were, yet it still happens..how they ended up in prison when they had not committed any crime is a mystery, a couple of scapegoats to appease the public.....

Supposition, as I said I was not party specific.

Is the BBC owned by the government?
BBC worldwide who broadcast News24, Cbeebies, BBC HD, BBC GOLD, Dave, really, and yesterday to name a few do so with the help of Virgin Media.....


The rest of your post is so off topic and has no bearing on the discussion whatsoever.


Please stop from taking the thread off topic - something that you do more and more often yourself Kizzy - but are happy to throw that accusation onto others. Kate has asked that we respect that and I am happy to do so.

Care to answer the points I raised in respect of all other forms of Government funded businesses / organisations/ as I mentioned earlier - all of which do indeed have bearing...........

[Niamh.]

I think Kate has some very valid points actually and I think people are perfectly entitled to protest by not paying their licence fee if they're not happy with the service they're getting. I think it's very wrong to force people to pay for a TV channel when some people would rather not even have it and people do have better things to spend their money on, especially when times are hard, like they are now.

The BBC may not be responsible for the state of the country but it is owned by the government so in a round about way it is and has a responsibility to help it's citizens out.......surely?

[Kizzy]

The Voice - has been a shambles from start to finish (Imo, but I'm sure I'm not alone) it was badly organised, a real shame considering the amount of talent, which incidentally is not reflected in the final line-up apart from one artist (Bo) but that's digressing. The voting system is piss poor and despite the knocks the X factor gets, the Voice is a very pale shadow. The premise of the show had/has great potential, but they stuffed it up.

8 out of 10 Cats on BBC1? Really?

Yes I am considering the range of genre the BBC offer, every channel offers a wide variety for all ages and tastes to make up a schedule, some good, some not so much. There are far too many repeats on the BBC, regardless of the fact that there are a lot of comedy classics, they shouldn't be charging for people to watch the same stuff over and over again, would you go to the cinema two weeks in a row and pay to watch exactly the same thing?

We are not discussing the dross other channels offer, though they too need to seriously buck there ideas up in some departments, I'm not just bashing the Beeb and saying they are bad, commercial tv is good. Not at all. But they don't charge for it and the Beeb do.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd welcome a system whereby you could opt out of having the channel and not paying, maybe even pay for view for certain programmes if people wanted to watch them badly enough as a sode option? But with that I doubt anyone would, given that you don't have to pay to watch anything on Iplayer, so the only detriment would be not getting to watch stuff as it's actually shown. People would prefer to save their money for other things, like food and clothing, especially the less well off, which is a very large proportion of the population, considering the state of this country at the moment.

I agree the voice was ruined and caused many to simply switch off.
it does have some good programmes but to be honest I prefer channel 4 for their comedy documentary programming, news and films.
lots of the popular presenters and shows start off on C4, graham norton, johnathon ross.....we may even see 8 out of 10 cats on the BBC one day :)

The pay to view thing is not such a bad idea, if I had to pay to see the 'Life ' series with Sir David Attenbourough I would.

[Pyramid*]

I agree the voice was ruined and caused many to simply switch off.
it does have some good programmes but to be honest I prefer channel 4 for their comedy documentary programming, news and films.
lots of the popular presenters and shows start off on C4, graham norton, johnathon ross.....we may even see 8 out of 10 cats on the BBC one day :)


Well... 8 out of 10 cats is produced at the BBC TV Centre.... but hey: that's surely nothing to do with the BBC and everything else that they are involved in.

[Kate!]

Well... 8 out of 10 cats is produced at the BBC TV Centre.... but hey: that's surely nothing to do with the BBC and everything else that they are involved in.

nit picking much? It's a C4 show, you did include it in the list of stuff the Beeb offers, I was merely commenting on that.

[Jack_]

The thing is, the BBC provide more services than any other broadcaster in the UK. And there's something for everyone.

BBC iPlayer, six TV channels of varying degrees of genre that provide for people of all different ages and interests, ten (maybe more) radio stations with no adverts and again, a varying degree of genres and top class broadcasters better than any commercial station could and does provide, the BBC website, sport coverage like no other (just look at the Olympics schedule for this year) and BBC News (the best news source in the UK and probably worldwide).

I've more than likely missed several things out, and that's how vast a service the BBC offer.

we may even see 8 out of 10 cats on the BBC one day :)

Let's hope not.

As much as I like the BBC, when it comes to censorship they're nowhere near as relaxed as C4 are.

[Pyramid*]

nit picking much? It's a C4 show, you did include it in the list of stuff the Beeb offers, I was merely commenting on that.

Not nit picking Kate, just showing how wrong you are , you tried to make out as though you knew better about 8 out of 10 cats with your sarky comment.
In line with Kizzy's comment backing up your 8 out of 10 cats comment mabye beign shown on the BBC someday.

Perhaps if you were aware of just how invovled the BBC is with so many other programmes that you watch, but as your post earlier shows: you don't. If you play with fire: expect to be burnt. Or at least be humble enough to admit when you are wrong.

So no nit picking whatsoever - call it confirmation of facts.

[Kizzy]

Please stop from taking the thread off topic - something that you do more and more often yourself Kizzy - but are happy to throw that accusation onto others. Kate has asked that we respect that and I am happy to do so.

Care to answer the points I raised in respect of all other forms of Government funded businesses / organisations/ as I mentioned earlier - all of which do indeed have bearing...........

I have replied to your points pyra, they had relevance and were on topic.
Why you want me to into chapter and verse about other forms of government funded organisations I don't know...I stated the BBC already do have privately funded programming.
In conclusion...I don't agree with the licence fee. I don't think the quality of programming is superior to commercial stations, and I don't believe they are impartial as some feel a publicly owned station should be.

[Pyramid*]

I have replied to your points pyra, they had relevance and were on topic.

Why you want me to into chapter and verse about other forms of government funded organisations I don't know...I stated the BBC already do have privately funded programming.

In conclusion...I don't agree with the licence fee. I don't think the quality of programming is superior to commercial stations, and I don't believe they are impartial as some feel a publicly owned station should be.

I thought Kate specifically wished to discuss the BBC. I believe she said very very clearly Kizzy, that the matter of the tv licence fee had been done to death and that she would like to expand on the merits (or not) of the BBC and if not: if the matter of the TV licence kept returning, that she wanted the thread closed.

It seems a bit disrespectful given that Kate wanted the discussion to evolve beyond the tv licence part, that you still continue to raise it, after Kate made it clear.

[MTVN]

Prefer Mock the Week and Have I Got News For You to 8 out of 10 cats tbh

[Kizzy]

I thought Kate specifically wished to discuss the BBC. I believe she said very very clearly Kizzy, that the matter of the tv licence fee had been done to death and that she would like to expand on the merits (or not) of the BBC and if not: if the matter of the TV licence kept returning, that she wanted the thread closed.

It seems a bit disrespectful given that Kate wanted the discussion to evolve beyond the tv licence part, that you still continue to raise it, after Kate made it clear.

I am sorry you feel that way, maybe if you stopped questioning my reasoning behind my views I could stop having to reaffirm them for you.

I addressed all the issues raised in the OP in my conclusion.
If I have upset or offended kate then I will apologise.

[Pyramid*]

Prefer Mock the Week and Have I Got News For You to 8 out of 10 cats tbh


I like both of them too.

Which reminds me, I haven't actually seen Have I Got News For You for a while: some of the humur in that is brilliant.

[Kate!]

Not nit picking Kate, just showing how wrong you are , you tried to make out as though you knew better about 8 out of 10 cats with your sarky comment.
In line with Kizzy's comment backing up your 8 out of 10 cats comment mabye beign shown on the BBC someday.

Perhaps if you were aware of just how invovled the BBC is with so many other programmes that you watch, but as your post earlier shows: you don't. If you play with fire: expect to be burnt. Or at least be humble enough to admit when you are wrong.

So no nit picking whatsoever - call it confirmation of facts.

I'm not playing with fire, oh wait, I am cos I'm disagreeing with you. :hugesmile: I wasn't aiming for a sarcastic tone when I said 8 out of 10 cats isn't on the Beeb, just raising a metaphorical eyebrow, bear in mind that tone doesn't always come across in written posts. If that's how you interpreted it, and it offended you I'm sorry. However, I believe I was right (it's stone cold fact - it's on C4) and if and when I am wrong, I am always humble enough to admit it, unlike your dog with a bone approach.

[Pyramid*]

I am sorry you feel that way, maybe if you stopped questioning my reasoning behind my views I could stop having to reaffirm them for you.

I addressed all the issues raised in the OP in my conclusion.
If I have upset or offended kate then I will apologise.

that is the very nature of debates Kizzy, particular when issues that have nothing to do with the topic are thrown into the mix as some deflective to the subject matter at hand.

What about the BBC as a whole - for the entire range of services that it offers - which have been reiterated time and time again by many posters, forgive me if I have not seen your specific responses - though in fairness to me: I can't really recall much feedback on that side of things from you?

From some comments: it 'appears' you perhaps were not aware that they are involved in the production of programmes that you watch on non BBC stations.

[Kate!]

I am sorry you feel that way, maybe if you stopped questioning my reasoning behind my views I could stop having to reaffirm them for you.

I addressed all the issues raised in the OP in my conclusion.
If I have upset or offended kate then I will apologise.

you haven't Kizzy.

[Omah]

Prefer Mock the Week and Have I Got News For You to 8 out of 10 cats tbh

Yeah, William "Rocket Man" Shatner on HIGNFY was surprisingly quick-witted for a man of 81 ..... :laugh:

"God Save The Queen:

:joker:

[Pyramid*]

I'm not playing with fire, oh wait, I am cos I'm disagreeing with you. :hugesmile: I wasn't aiming for a sarcastic tone when I said 8 out of 10 cats isn't on the Beeb, just raising a metaphorical eyebrow, bear in mind that tone doesn't always come across in written posts. If that's how you interpreted it, and it offended you I'm sorry. However, I believe I was right (it's stone cold fact - it's on C4) and if and when I am wrong, I am always humble enough to admit it, unlike your dog with a bone approach.

No need for anything metaphorical eyebrows to be raised at all Kate. Let's deal with facts. You stated wrongly what I quoted in an attempt to belittle - it didn't work out, at least have the decency to admit that rather than make rather poor excuses for your previous comments.

It makes thing so much less complicated... don't you think?

From the lady who herself has mentioned about snipes...... I see you managed to tar yourself with that same brush that you want to tar other with, rather than discuss reasonable and with some degree of civility.

[thesheriff443]

you do know these shows are scripted and pre read to give those razor sharp comments.

[Pyramid*]

you do know these shows are scripted and pre read to give those razor sharp comments.

Nooooooo... tell me it's not so!

Of course we know that!

Well.... at least I do.

I'm not that daft.

Does it make any difference?

[Toxic]

I'm not happy with the BBC at all, almost all BBC shows are aimed at the older generation and the ones that aren't are terrible.

[thesheriff443]

for me it makes a difference when its pre recorded to someone being funny live.

[Kizzy]

that is the very nature of debates Kizzy, particular when issues that have nothing to do with the topic are thrown into the mix as some deflective to the subject matter at hand.

What about the BBC as a whole - for the entire range of services that it offers - which have been reiterated time and time again by many posters, forgive me if I have not seen your specific responses - though in fairness to me: I can't really recall much feedback on that side of things from you?

From some comments: it 'appears' you perhaps were not aware that they are involved in the production of programmes that you watch on non BBC stations.

Debates develop and other relevent issues can be brought in to reinforce viewpoints....I see nothing wrong with that pyra, why are you being so dogmatic?...

In fairness to me I have pointed out the BBC have commercial interests with Virgin Media.....
It 'appears' that you refuse to accept I disagree with you on this issue.

[Pyramid*]

I'm not happy with the BBC at all, almost all BBC shows are aimed at the older generation and the ones that aren't are terrible.

CBBC is directed at the older generation. same with shows like Young Apprentice, The Voice with Jessie, Will. i. am. etc . Really? I'd never have thought.

Their education programmes for students etc, their wildlife, history, natural earth programmes are all directed for the older generations. Odd, I thought all age groups like and enjoyed these: certainly they are posted about enough in positive on this very forum: most of who have members in the younger generation bracket.

[Kate!]

No need for anything metaphorical eyebrows to be raised at all Kate. Let's deal with facts. You stated wrongly what I quoted in an attempt to belittle - it didn't work out, at least have the decency to admit that rather than make rather poor excuses for your previous comments.

It makes thing so much less complicated... don't you think?

From the lady who herself has mentioned about snipes...... I see you managed to tar yourself with that same brush that you want to tar other with, rather than discuss reasonable and with some degree of civility.

:hugesmile: I see the gloves are off! I stated nothing wrongly. You included 8 out of 10 cats as a Beeb offering, I said it wasn't. I was right.

I'm not, and don't need to make excuses for anything, I offered you an apology if you chose (chose being the operative word - as you seem to thrive on taking offence where none is intended) to take what I said badly.

As for discussing things reasonably and with some degree of civility, nowhere in this entire thread have I not been civil towards you Pyra, or it would have been closed I'm sure. The only instances I can see is your rudeness and offensive comments to Joey, but that's between you two.

let's get back to the topic again please.

[Pyramid*]

Debates develop and other relevent issues can be brought in to reinforce viewpoints....I see nothing wrong with that pyra, why are you being so dogmatic?...

In fairness to me I have pointed out the BBC have commercial interests with Virgin Media.....
It 'appears' that you refuse to accept I disagree with you on this issue.


yes, but seems that when I bring in very relevant info - you blank it Kizzy - hence why I did precisely the same with you.

:)

[Pyramid*]

:hugesmile: I see the gloves are off! I stated nothing wrongly. You included 8 out of 10 cats as a Beeb offering, I said it wasn't. I was right.

I'm not, and don't need to make excuses for anything, I offered you an apology if you chose (chose being the operative word - as you seem to thrive on taking offence where none is intended) to take what I said badly.

As for discussing things reasonably and with some degree of civility, nowhere in this entire thread have I not been civil towards you Pyra, or it would have been closed I'm sure. The only instances I can see is your rudeness and offensive comments to Joey, but that's between you two.

let's get back to the topic again please.

Where did I say it was a BEEB offering. Oh I didn't.

As I say: stick to facts Kate, because when you don't - that's when your stance becomes unstuck.

Oh .. let's get back on topic once you've had a bitch at me?

If you want to get into some slanging match Kate - be adult and take it off to PM - you don't usually have a problem when you're wanting to slang off anyone on here by PM. Don't be shy now - or is it a wee bit easier to try to do it publically to garner some support?

[Toxic]

CBBC is directed at the older generation. same with shows like Young Apprentice, The Voice with Jessie, Will. i. am. etc . Really? I'd never have thought.

Their education programmes for students etc, their wildlife, history, natural earth programmes are all directed for the older generations. Odd, I thought all age groups like and enjoyed these: certainly they are posted about enough in positive on this very forum: most of who have members in the younger generation bracket.

As a young person I feel that the BBC is completely detached from me, I'd never really consider watching any of their shows because most of them are boring. I used to watch The Apprentice but I haven't watched a single episode this year, I also liked The Voice but now I find it more than boring, other than that I can't think of anything I'd actually go out of my way to watch.

'Comedy' shows such as John Bishop's Britain and Mrs Browns' Boys literally make me cringe at how unfunny they are, The Graham Norton Show is the only show I watch now.

[Kizzy]

yes, but seems that when I bring in very relevant info - you blank it Kizzy - hence why I did precisely the same with you.

:)

What have I blanked?....I read an replied to your posts, lets not start supposing things please.
I have made my point now, as have you if you have as much respect for the OP as you claim accept others have differing feelings on this topic.

[Niamh.]

Closing this as it seems to have run it's course.