when spoirul used the "n" word

[easypeasy]

He was incredibly lucky that John wasnt the type to take offence. If he had said that word to some of my mates he would have got knocked out before the he drew another breath..
The problem is now one black person has told him he can say it he will be dropping it all over the place, a sure recipe for trouble.
That Vanilla Ice wannabe is really starting to grate on me, I hope to god he doesnt make it into the real house.

[Deep2]

I agree with you, but he will definately be in the real house, as *******ign likes him, and has sussed who she evicts will go next door. He reminds me of Maggot from celebrity BB in the stereotypical sense, although I think Maggot is a bit of a geek underneath it all.

[easypeasy]

yeah on the surface he could be compared to the maggot, but maggot is a down to earth humble fella, the GLC are not exactly taking themselves seriously.hehe.
Spoirul is one of those people who thinks because he has got a few rap records in his collection he's a gangsta, even though John
is probably the first black person he's ever met (judging by asking if its ok to use the "n" word), I bet a million black people sighed when John gave him permission to use it........

[Slezer]

What did Spiral say with the 'n' word? What a clown he thinks hes a rapper but uses the 'n' word? Thats how you know for a fact hes never taken his music serious but likes to tell people hes a rapper.

[easypeasy]

he asked if it would John would mind him saying it when they are singing rap songs. "is it ok for me to say n_____?" honestly it was a bit late cos he just did.lol.
Only a black person has the right to use that word in my view, if a white person says it to another white person as a term of endearment its just tacky, and if a caucasian says it to a black person its just disrespectful.
spoirul is like a bull in a china shop.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by easypeasy
he asked if it would John would mind him saying it when they are singing rap songs. "is it ok for me to say n_____?" honestly it was a bit late cos he just did.lol.

That's not exactly how it happened. He asked Jonathan if he minded white kids using it in songs that they sampled or free-styled from other black artists, 50 cent was the one he mentioned specifically.

And good on Jonathan for being decent and straight about it. Surely, in order for it to be considered racist, it's the intention and meaning behind the use of the word?

Anyway, I usually avoid posting in these threads about racism, and who is or is not racist, but I thought it was important to at least ensure you are reporting what Spiral said correctly.

[SiMoN!]

Originally posted by easypeasy
he asked if it would John would mind him saying it when they are singing rap songs. "is it ok for me to say n_____?" honestly it was a bit late cos he just did.lol.
Only a black person has the right to use that word in my view, if a white person says it to another white person as a term of endearment its just tacky, and if a caucasian says it to a black person its just disrespectful.
spoirul is like a bull in a china shop.

how stupid is the 'Only a black person has the right to use that word' if there going to ues other people are going to ues it

i totally agree to what john said

[easypeasy]

Only a black person has the right to decide if that word is offensive, I have a few black mates who feel it is an insult, I wouldnt dream of saying it because Ive seen one mate genuinely upset by the use of it. If a rap record tells you to put your hand in a fire would you do it?
There are plenty of intelligent hip hop artists out there that detest that word, Im not saying that black rappers that use it are in the wrong, but they do let down a lot of people of their own race. Fair enough a white guy can appreciate 2pac or biggie for being great lyricists but its wrong to think you can follow in their shoes.
Even Eminem has more sense than to use the "n" word freely. he knows he would be shot if he started gobbing it off, he leaves that word to the members of D12 who have a right to use it.,

[Edwin]

Originally posted by easypeasy
He was incredibly lucky that John wasnt the type to take offence. If he had said that word to some of my mates he would have got knocked out before the he drew another breath..

Oh, you're as hard as nails :bored:

Originally posted by easypeasy
Only a black person has the right to decide if that word is offensive

No. I think it's offensive.

Originally posted by easypeasy
There are plenty of intelligent hip hop artists out there that detest that word

Shame about the music..

Originally posted by easypeasy
he leaves that word to the members of D12 who have a right to use it.

That's like saying if have the right to call you all sorts, where is the logic in that?
It's a rude word and no-one should "have the right" to use it, whether they are black or white. They're basically calling one of their so-called "friends" a slave anyway.

Who cares what these bloody rapper morons think anyway? loooool.

[andybigbro]

spiral is cool and would be using it as an offence

[easypeasy]

nah mate im not saying im hard, im a big softie. Ive just got friends who would see red if a white bloke said that word in their presence. i think a lot of the rappers who do use the word thought they were trying to make a statement by using it in referance to their own status and culture. They still feel like they are second class citizens in the states.
Problem is white kids got a taste for the music and didnt really listen to the lyrics of quality rappers like KRS-1 and Chuck D, they just listened to the comedy
gangsta rap of NWA and took it way to seriously and literally.
Now the states and Europe is full of white flupwits like Spoiral who are wannabe cartoon blackmen. Sad.

[Edwin]

Originally posted by easypeasy
Now the states and Europe is full of white flupwits like Spoiral who are wannabe cartoon blackmen. Sad.

No. He is a wannabe "gangster".

[easypeasy]

lol and Dublin really is "the ghetto" eh? what is it about middle class youth's who feel they have to pretend they have had it rough? why not just be happy and thankful their parents are well off?

[InTheFade]

I don't agree - if black people have the 'right' to use the word, then don't white people? What happened to equality. I mean, if someone directs the word at a black person as an insult, I'd see it as offensive whether that someone was black or white.

[Edwin]

Exactly, if black people don't have any respect for themselves, then why should we give them any?

[devilsadvocate]

from one black guy to another,jon is just as ignorant as spiral.i feel no-one should use that word irrelevevant of race,creed or culture and for jon to say it's o.k to use it when rapping is just stupid.eminem never uses that word and he is THE greatest "white" rapper of all time.also,for black rapper' s to uses that word just takes a whole race of people back 100 years to when we really were just *******.

[easypeasy]

of course black people have respect for themselves. like devils advocate says"rblack rapper' s to uses that word just takes a whole race of people back 100 years to when we really were just n______"
If your white and want to use that word go ahead, i just hope you have the balls to say it in front of a black fella who will bring you down a peg or two, rather thajn one who will be upset and have a break down over it.

[Edwin]

Originally posted by easypeasy
of course black people have respect for themselves. like devils advocate says"rblack rapper' s to uses that word just takes a whole race of people back 100 years to when we really were just n______"

I can barely understand yours or devilsadvocate's.

[easypeasy]

Originally posted by Jaz0
I don't agree - if black people have the 'right' to use the word, then don't white people? What happened to equality. I mean, if someone directs the word at a black person as an insult, I'd see it as offensive whether that someone was black or white.
victims of abuse should be free to discuss their treatment by their oppresors between one another. thats what rap music was all about in the first place, it's rebel music like reggae.
the difference is the children of the oppressers got a taste for the music and misread the content and context of what the art form stands for.

[devilsadvocate]

Edited by Sunny_01 - personal insults aimed at other forum members is NOT allowed on this forum

[easypeasy]

thats a remarkably civilsed reply devil, to a bit of an ignorent question.

[rex3]

theres alot of ignorant hip hop hate here, easypeasy

[InTheFade]

Where does the 'n' word come into black people's discussion of their treatment by their opressors? As far as I've heard, the subject of a lot of rap music is certainly not that. Maybe I'm missing something...

[rex3]

imagine your fat... and you always get dissed by your mates for being fat, but in a light harted way, like as a joke. Thats the same when people say *****.


HOPE THAT HELPS THE REST

[easypeasy]

hey i love hip-hop, doesnt mean i feel the need to go round saying the "n" word like a parrot though.
As for you Jaz i suggest you go listen to some old skool and find out where it all started. check out some Boogie Down Productions or Public Enemy......

[rex3]

malcom. out of THE ROYAL FAMILY the old show that use to be on BB2. Thats who you look like easypeasy, hmmm what do you think?

[easypeasy]

Originally posted by rex3
malcom. out of THE ROYAL FAMILY the old show that use to be on BB2. Thats who you look like easypeasy, hmmm what do you think? hehe id rather look like him than a member of the real royal family mate......you look like a tarty version of Glyn in your pic! :tongue:

[rex3]

lol. yeah, glyns alright, long curly hair is in, this season.

[easypeasy]

Originally posted by rex3
lol. yeah, glyns alright, long curly hair is in, this season.
are you sure he's not been moonlighting as a housemate in the australian bb? his cheeks look red like somethings been slapping against them a lot.........:spin:

[devilsadvocate]

i don't want to get too deep into this but i feel i have to.there is a line in an (fairly) old spike lee film,(i think it's called school daze), where larry fishbourne turn to sameul l.jackson and said " you're not *****s." this hits the nail on the head for me. the n word was'nt banded about in hip-hop until the late 80's/early 90's with N.W.A and such other so-called rap groups/artists.way back,grand master melle mel never used that word,neither did afrika bambaataa,KRS-1,big daddy kane,rakim, or (as easy has mentioned),public enemy.it seems that now it is o.k to be seen as a N***** because that is all black people can be/are.... which is bulls***!
it's not something that should be celebrated,nor is it something to be worn like some kind of badge of honour. how would snoop dogg feel after being whipped for looking at a white woman.maybe i'm wrong,but he may think to himself,"this ***** stuff is'nt all it's cracked up to be.i don't want to be a ***** anymore.wheres my gin and juice."
the whole jon/spiral thing was just two thick and dim people trying not to offend each other.....which is also bulls***.

[easypeasy]

"how would snoop dogg feel after being whipped for looking at a white woman"
quality mate. that last reply says it all, the rebirth of that word is recent and it pays no respect to generations of black musicians who fought hard to get their music recognised in a white owned music industry, I dont really understand why someonec with incredible talent such as Stevie Wonder should have broke down
barriers just to have mr "doggy dogg" put them up again. I blame the children of the sixties for not educating their own children.

[devilsadvocate]

and the 70's,80's,90's etc.

[Sidrat2006]

Well said Easypesee.

Some words cut deeper than others. Eventually all words lose or change their meaning.

The N word is probably the oldest derogatory term that's as offensive now to most people than it was back then.

I've seen old films from the 20's and 30's that feature this word as a description. Blazing Saddles also infers the use of this word too for comedic value.

Sometimes it can be funny, but it really does depend on the situation.

[Sidrat2006]

Having watched the highlights of the conversation, I have to say it wasn't as bad as portrayed by the original poster.

It was a question that Jonathon answered truthfully. Some people might disagree with his views but it was a question asked to find out about a stranger.

I've asked several black guys that I've got on well with what the N word actually means or meant, but only one has given the statement that it's a very bad word indeed.

I wonder if the actual meaning and the modern definition resembles each other??

[Slezer]

To be honest everybody saying it was okay for Spiral to use the 'n' word are just ignorant. Some black people find the word very degrading. Because of the history of the word a white person saying it is just very ignorant and stupid.

[Slezer]

Originally posted by Edwin
Exactly, if black people don't have any respect for themselves, then why should we give them any?

Mate, I beg that you take a look at how ignorant you are and **** off?

[sol]

I liked that way that Jonathan didn't take offence to what Spiral said, he's right, society has moved on. If true equality is wanted then everyone has to be prepared for someone of any race or culture to say words, and act in certain ways.

[easypeasy]

who's to say society has moved on? who is "society" anyway? It's pretty obvious a lot of black people still find the word deeply offensive.....are they wrong to feel that way?

[sol]

Originally posted by easypeasy
who's to say society has moved on? who is "society" anyway? It's pretty obvious a lot of black people still find the word deeply offensive.....are they wrong to feel that way?

Who's to say Spiral wouldn't take offence with the way you spelt his name on the title of this thread. :conf:

[Foebane100]

spoirul is kind of sleazy.

[Sidrat2006]

For an interesting reference read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/******

While the word may upset people, the meanings of words change, and "power to insult" be degraded over time.

In the above article it lists several well known authors ( Agatha Christie) having used the word in the context of her day.

Finally I have found out the meaning and original power of insult with this word.

Long live Wikipedia and the beautiful language.

[easypeasy]

bit of a diff between joshing about someones accent and asking a black man if you can call him a n________ mate.

[Kore]

gotta love wikipedia.:laugh:

[easypeasy]

"is a term used to refer to black people. When used by non-blacks, it is considered extremely derogatory." well at least wiki stays true to the point.

[easypeasy]

"More recently, the term has been used to signify a black person who is a thug"
thats not much of a compliment to a black person either.

[Sidrat2006]

That's generally the ***** usage of the word though.

The more people use a word, the more diluted the original derogatory power is left.

It's like homosexuals using previously derogatory words themselves. Classic Simpsons episode featured Homer meeting and getting on with a guy who was gay. You must have seen the episode.

Homer - "You can't use that word, that's the word we use." Or something like that, not a very good quote, but it's close ish.

[Bells]

Originally posted by easypeasy
He was incredibly lucky that John wasnt the type to take offence. If he had said that word to some of my mates he would have got knocked out before the he drew another breath..
The problem is now one black person has told him he can say it he will be dropping it all over the place, a sure recipe for trouble.
That Vanilla Ice wannabe is really starting to grate on me, I hope to god he doesnt make it into the real house.

Some people do tend to use it offhand these days but it should be made aware that of course it's an insult! Spiral isn't making things any better anyway - he's being a bit inconsiderate to say the least!

[Sidrat2006]

It doesn't always refer to a negative comment. Meanings of words change. They're organic in that nature.

I've seen the footage and he it was brought up quite well. Allbeit a bit quicker than I'd have bought it up. He didn't use it derogatarilly (?) he asked Jonathon (great laid back guy) what he thought of the use of the word in songs, in general.

You'd be offended by any comment delivered to you in a negative and hurtful fashion.

I have a bad habit of using the phrase "shut up" in conversation and that can go down just as bad as any curse word.

[easypeasy]

Sid you say he brought the subject up very quickly, i agree with that point.
he also asked michael a dumb question within a very short time of meeting him. I cant help but get the impression spiral is totally tactless and inconsiderate around strangers who are different to the type he normally meets. whether it be black or gay they both get treated the same way.

[devilsadvocate]

spiral is the kind of person who will insult some-one else and wonder,'why he so upset?whats the problem?was it something i said?' totally insensitive. 'so your gay are you?whats it like to have a willy up there?'
'so your black are you carrying those lips around must be such a burden!.........what?did that offend you?'

[Smeggypants]

Originally posted by devilsadvocate
spiral is the kind of person who will insult some-one else and wonder,'why he so upset?whats the problem?was it something i said?' totally insensitive. 'so your gay are you?whats it like to have a willy up there?'
'so your black are you carrying those lips around must be such a burden!.........what?did that offend you?'

I don't think Spoiral has that many brain cells really.

[Sidrat2006]

easypeasy wrote "Sid you say he brought the subject up very quickly, i agree with that point.
he also asked michael a dumb question within a very short time of meeting him. I cant help but get the impression spiral is totally tactless and inconsiderate around strangers who are different to the type he normally meets. whether it be black or gay they both get treated the same way. "

Well..... The way he bought up the subject was pretty well. Much better than I'd have done, but I usually wait for about two years to ask such questions. For that reason, I don't think it was TOTALLY tackless, maybe a risky move, because you really don't know how someone is going to respond, in or out of the house.

Was Spiral the HM that asked the gay housemate if he ever had sex with a woman or what??

[Bells]

Yeah he was. Kind of clears everything up a bit doesn't it Sidrat2006?

I don't think he meant it harshly. He just needs to learn to think before he speaks - hopefully him being in BB will help there! :thumbs:. I didn't hear the conversation myself, so I can't comment on what he said exactly. But if he did use the word I'd imagine he used it just to ask Jonathan what he thought of it. And besides, I like Jonathan - he seems really easygoing and is probably understanding so didn't take offence. I hope anyway. I want to see it now actually...! hehe.

[Smeggypants]

It's sign of stupidty when you can't even say the word in a non-derogatory sense, rather as a means of discussion isn't it?

[Sidrat2006]

Smeggypants wrote "It's sign of stupidty when you can't even say the word in a non-derogatory sense, rather as a means of discussion isn't it? "

Very very true, but it also goes to show how much power words have.

[Foebane100]

Ah the joys of a PC world can't say anything in case it offends.

The PCness has become way out of control, though I would never use N.

[brighton-dude]

i think that people that have to pick at people because of the colour of their skin are a complete and utter nob-ed because they are normal aswell if i ever meet him i will floor him definately

[easypeasy]

yes but its still a very powerful word with centuries of hatred and exploitation behind it. i honestly think if you have to question whether a word is acceptable or appropriate to use then it most likely isnt.
well its good bb has got us talking about things like this, its such a dodgy subject its rarely brought up anywhere else.

[Sidrat2006]

easypeasy wrote "...its such a dodgy subject its rarely brought up anywhere else.."

Because you get comments like this

brighton dude wrote "i think that people that have to pick at people because of the colour of their skin are a complete and utter nob-ed because they are normal aswell if i ever meet him i will floor him definately"

While I agree with the first comment, punching Spiral in this case is over the top, as he wasn't saying to offend.

Then I noticed that easypeasy also wrote "i honestly think if you have to question whether a word is acceptable or appropriate to use then it most likely isnt. "

Words to live by sir!! I wonder if the banner comes out?

[rex3]

***** isn't even used any more becuase the commercial side of the word has realised that its creating controversy. So its used less in music and even in the UK hip hop seen. Actually know one even says it any more, not even light heartedly

[devilsadvocate]

easy........i salut you for your last comment.rex.......i think you need to get out more.

[rex3]

well alright maybe i need to go out and buy some more crack then

[InTheHood]

I've not heard the 'N' word for ages now. In fact, i've not been racially abused for a long time.

I didn't hear Spiral say the word, but I don't like him anyway. He needs to stop talking for a second.

[easypeasy]

hey InTheHood, have you ever been to Alkmaar? I like that town. and also a place called Hillagom is nice. I used to work in those two areas. got a lot of happy memories of the Neths!
from what i here the racists in holland have turned their attention away from the black people and onto the asian muslim community.

[Slezer]

There is no need for non-black people to use the word though! So many white people saying if black people can say it then white people should be able to aswell. It just sounds like a few closet white supremasists.

[easypeasy]

Originally posted by Slezer
There is no need for non-black people to use the word though! So many white people saying if black people can say it then white people should be able to aswell. It just sounds like a few closet white supremasists.
yeah for a white person to be denied the right to say one word, its hardly the end of the world is it?
Black people have been denied a hell of a lot more thoughout history.
some still are denied the right to a decent life. would Sudan still be in a mess if it was a european, predominently white country?
"george Bush doesnt care about black people" lol

[Lauren]

The fact Spiral asked permission to use it means he did not mean it in an offensive way. Johnathon understood this and therefore gave permission for him to use it. What is wrong with that? :rolleyes::bigsmile:

[Psylocke]

Its like most word

Like "fag" or "paddy",all depends whos using them,whats context there using them in (is it jokingly? is it in a question?) and who there speaking too....words are words,intentions are intentions