Classism the new racism?

[kistar]

Everyone is so hot on racism being bad , however is it ok then to judge some one , make assumptions about them because of their background and the way they talk? In my opinion they are essentially the same , obviously classism is much more acceptable.But with that in mind let's get the whole racism thing in perspective , if we can call Caroline a stuck up bitch , then surely it's ok to mention the fact that the people who worked in Scotts fathers Indian restaurant ate with their hands?

[sampvt]

Everyone is so hot on racism being bad , however is it ok then to judge some one , make assumptions about them because of their background and the way they talk? In my opinion they are essentially the same , obviously classism is much more acceptable.But with that in mind let's get the whole racism thing in perspective , if we can call Caroline a stuck up bitch , then surely it's ok to mention the fact that the people who worked in Scotts fathers Indian restaurant ate with their hands?

He has a point.

[Livia]

Two wrongs don't make a right. However, these are two separate issues.

[kistar]

Two wrongs don't make a right. However, these are two separate issues.

How are they?

[Livia]

How are they?

Seriously, if you need me to explain it to you, then it would take far too long.

[kistar]

Both are discriminating minority groups, so how are they different?

[Livia]

Like I said... if you really don't know, you should have paid more attention at school.

[JamesBond]

What the hell are talking about? I know you want to make a point, but try to make a valid one.

[kistar]

Seriously, if you need me to explain it to you, then it would take far too long.

Which leads me to think you can't explain it . Maybe we judge people people ,yes , however it doesn't mean that judgement is so far reaching it could affect an individuals self worth or the right to equality its just something we do based on our beliefs and experiences of the minority group in question.

[kistar]

What the hell are talking about? I know you want to make a point, but try to make a valid one.

To me it's very valid.

[Marmalite]

LOL

Caroline isn't a stuck up bitch. If she was she definitely would align herself with the likes of Thugly or Ashleigh.

But she is a well educated, childish, manipulating, wild-haired brat of a girl who has a very calculating mind and well off parents.

....and she makes great BB viewing!





(pssst... I'd give up now and slink out of the thread quietly if I was you.)

[Jezzy]

Classism is to do with attitudes and the perception of social standing. It's mutable.

Racism is an attack by one race on another due to immutable characteristics.

Very simplistic, but you can see the difference.

[MrWong]

Everyone is so hot on racism being bad , however is it ok then to judge some one , make assumptions about them because of their background and the way they talk? In my opinion they are essentially the same , obviously classism is much more acceptable.But with that in mind let's get the whole racism thing in perspective , if we can call Caroline a stuck up bitch , then surely it's ok to mention the fact that the people who worked in Scotts fathers Indian restaurant ate with their hands?

Can we?

Carolwhine has plenty of bad points. I've not seen anyone on the forum mug her off for being stuck up. Anyway, you aren't comparing like with like.

Has anyone in the house been classist regarding Carolwhine and got away with it? I've not seen it and if it's not happened then how can you come to the conclusion that it's "much more acceptable"?

[kistar]

I think people on the forum can be classist , and make assumptions about Caroline based on where they think she comes from and the privileged life she has potentially had, it seems to invoke great emotion . I do think that colours some peoples view point of her , I really like her, I do find it fascinating that people literally hate her and wonder as to whether it could be because of what she represents as opposed to her actions in the house. This is a pondering of mine not a statement.

[Jezzy]

I think it's probably a mixture of both, kistar. People genuinely loved Harry / Ben / Freddie, yet they were all upper class or upper-middle-class housemates. I think that she is absolutely nasty, and to me, it is almost as though people are looking for a peg to hang that behaviour on. I don't think any of her haters try to make excuses for her actions based upon her privileged upbringing. On the other hand though, that may colour their disdain.

[kistar]

Classism is to do with attitudes and the perception of social standing. It's mutable.

Racism is an attack by one race on another due to immutable characteristics.

Very simplistic, but you can see the difference.

I hear what you are saying , but potentially people's beliefs are immutable and they create perceptions that lead to one group attacking or discriminating against another.

[King Gizzard]

You can't help your skin colour, you can help your class..

[boomoo]

How are they?

Because when you say Caroline is stuck up you are talking of your experience of observing that particular individual.
In Scott's case he implied that a specific group of people ate with their hands. He was labelling a whole nation he had no knowledge of.

[kistar]

I think it's probably a mixture of both, kistar. People genuinely loved Harry / Ben / Freddie, yet they were all upper class or upper-middle-class housemates. I think that she is absolutely nasty, and to me, it is almost as though people are looking for a peg to hang that behaviour on. I don't think any of her haters try to make excuses for her actions based upon her privileged upbringing. On the other hand though, that may colour their disdain.

Yes people did love Harry/Ben and Freddy didn't they , I don't know why I can't see the nastiness in her , its really weird, maybe it's me that's weird?????

[kistar]

Because when you say Caroline is stuck up you are talking of your experience of observing that particular individual.
In Scott's case he implied that a specific group of people ate with their hands. He was labelling a whole nation he had no knowledge of.

Ok that does make sense , although how is it bad to eat with your hands?

[Jezzy]

I hear what you are saying , but potentially people's beliefs are immutable and they create perceptions that lead to one group attacking or discriminating against another.

I agree with you to a point. The biggest barriers to people accepting one another for who and what they are are ignorance and indoctrination. I'm not convinced that people's beliefs are necessarily immutable, but they are ingrained. All I really mean is that you can be born with the biggest silver spoon of all in your mouth, yet still be judged purely on your actions. An upper-class born junkie appears to me as a junkie. If you're a different race, you are more likely to be pre-judged upon that rather than by your actions by those that discriminate.

[smeagol]

You can't help your skin colour, you can help your class..

nice pic broooooce lol

[kistar]

I agree with you to a point. The biggest barriers to people accepting one another for who and what they are are ignorance and indoctrination. I'm not convinced that people's beliefs are necessarily immutable, but they are ingrained. All I really mean is that you can be born with the biggest silver spoon of all in your mouth, yet still be judged purely on your actions. An upper-class born junkie appears to me as a junkie. If you're a different race, you are more likely to be pre-judged upon that rather than by your actions by those that discriminate.

Ok that does make sense .

[Jezzy]

Btw kistar, I don't think you're remotely weird for not seeing the nastiness in her. Perception is a very personal thing. :love:

[kistar]

Btw kistar, I don't think you're remotely weird for not seeing the nastiness in her. Perception is a very personal thing. :love:

Thank you xxxx

[Donovan.]

Ok that does make sense , although how is it bad to eat with your hands?

Exactly it's not a bad thing, but Ashleigh and Scott were labeling a nation as only using their hands to eat and laughing as if it was a bad thing. Which is why they were warned. And liking a HM isn't weird it is just a matter of opinion.

[rayheartbliss]

Two wrongs don't make a right. However, these are two separate issues.

exactly

[Kizzy]

Exactly it's not a bad thing, but Ashleigh and Scott were labeling a nation as only using their hands to eat and laughing as if it was a bad thing. Which is why they were warned. And liking a HM isn't weird it is just a matter of opinion.

They were not labelling at all... It is just not as socially acceptable to eat with fingers in our culture is all.
So it might appear strange, commenting on it is not an offence is it?
They got a warning so maybe it is... It's crazy.

[Donovan.]

They were not labelling at all... It is just not as socially acceptable to eat with fingers in our culture is all.
So it might appear strange, commenting on it is not an offence is it?
They got a warning so maybe it is... It's crazy.

"They eat with their hands, it's their culture," is labeling, but like I said I don't think they said it in a malicious way.

[rayheartbliss]

"They eat with their hands, it's their culture," is labeling, but like I said I don't think they said it in a malicious way.

yea, but did they laugh at the fact that indians eat with their fingers?

[coolface]

if anyone is classist in there it's deana

[Kizzy]

yea, but did they laugh at the fact that indians eat with their fingers?

Just the thought of eating cornflakes with your fingers prob....yuk! soggy food makes me cringe :nono:

[MatthewS]

I'd say Sara has the most class tbh......

[Gizmo]

They were not labelling at all... It is just not as socially acceptable to eat with fingers in our culture is all.

I wonder if the same intolerance is felt when someone tucks into a KFC or McDonalds?

In Asian cultures food is sometimes eaten without cutlery. And this happens in the UK. Guess what - we live in a multicultural society! What this means is that habits and customs vary. It seems some people find this hard to swallow (sorry for the pun!).

[kistar]

yea, but did they laugh at the fact that indians eat with their fingers?

I think they laughed because it was cereal and milk.

[Indy]

I think they laughed because it was cereal and milk.

Which, conveniently, nobody can prove ever happened outside Ashleigh's vicious and limited brain.

[kistar]

Just the thought of eating cornflakes with your fingers prob....yuk! soggy food makes me cringe :nono:

Wouldn't the milk run up your arm whilst your putting the mushed up cornflakes in your mouth?eeeeeeeuuuuuwwwww!

[Jezzy]

Wouldn't the milk run up your arm whilst your putting the mushed up cornflakes in your mouth?eeeeeeeuuuuuwwwww!

Yeah...so why would anyone do it?

[JamesBond]

Which, conveniently, nobody can prove ever happened outside Ashleigh's vicious and limited brain.

Scroll up, notice the fool is doing it on purpose.

[kistar]

Which, conveniently, nobody can prove ever happened outside Ashleigh's vicious and limited brain.

Why would she make that up though?I can't imagine you could make that up to be honest.

[Tinsel Toes]

Yes people did love Harry/Ben and Freddy didn't they , I don't know why I can't see the nastiness in her , its really weird, maybe it's me that's weird?????

Are you being serious ? If you can't see how utterly vile Caroline is - Ya gotta be brain dead !
You also answered your own question ?????

[JamesBond]

Why would she make that up though?I can't imagine you could make that up to be honest.

She wants to be funny that's why, you know what some of these silly little girls are like :)

[kistar]

Are you being serious ? If you can't see how utterly vile Caroline is - Ya gotta be brain dead !
You also answered your own question ?????

Um excuse me ? No nasty posts on my thread thank you very much.I am allowed to like who I like when I like if I like.

[Tinsel Toes]

Why would she make that up though?I can't imagine you could make that up to be honest.

What = this came from a girl that thinks Ibiza has a different sun ??? shes an amoeba

[Tinsel Toes]

Um excuse me ? No nasty posts on my thread thank you very much.I am allowed to like who I like when I like if I like.

Fine enjoy the rest of your life

[kistar]

What = this came from a girl that thinks Ibiza has a different sun ??? shes an amoeba

Exactly so she wouldn't have the imagination to make something up like that would she? That's my point .

[kistar]

She wants to be funny that's why, you know what some of these silly little girls are like :)

Hey James , mmmm maybe , that makes more sense than she just randomly made it up.

[JamesBond]

Hey James , mmmm maybe that makes more sense .

It should make a lot of sense to :)

[Indy]

Why would she make that up though?

Because Deana is her most recent target to ridicule, she's watched the show enough to know the stereotype (just like she's watched it enough to do an atrocious Nikki impression about her). This comment came at the end of what was at least a full minute (that we saw after editing) rant about her being a horrible, evil person.

In the same house where Shiv and friends shot daggers through the window, insisting Lauren and Luke A had stolen tobacco and kept it hidden from them, when in reality they were scavenging the used ones for scraps, you have to ask why should would make something up about someone she doesn't like?

We've seen Deana use utensils before:
http://bigbrotheruk-s2cdn.channel5.com/staticmedia/uploads/photos/580x387/deana_6.jpg
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/kkw_aos/deanafork.jpg
Why would she not use one to eat something far messier than things we've seen her eat with one?