Disabled/sick people to be forced into free labour

[Vicky.]

Im sure everyone has heard by now about JSA claimants having to work 40 hours a week for free. This has clearly been sucessful in the governments eyes (of course, because while on the 'work programs' the number of people deemed 'unemployed' goes down so the figures LOOK good, although they ARE still unemployed) so now the disabled are being targetted also

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/sep/03/disabled-benefits-claimants-fines-work?commentpage=15#start-of-comments

For those who do not know, being in the WRAG (work related activity group) means the DWP have deemed you unfit for work currently, but expect you to be able to work in the future. Basically they are meant to prepare you for going back into work, and offer support. It is NOT the same as JSA. Generally, people on ESA have already had to undergo a long process to prove they are unfit for work. People recieving cancer treatment are among those who are placed in WRAG.

So what are the new plans to prepare these disabled people for work? Force them into work (free work too) with no support, or cut their benefits to ~£20 per week...

It seems from the comments on that article that most people are waking up to the utterly awful methods being used by the government to save a bit of money (obviously theres still a few numpties who eat up all the propoganda and reckon all benefit claimants are scroungers).

These are people who (by the governments own admission, as they are in WRAG instead of on JSA) are unfit for work, being made to work. How the hell can the DWP justify that?!

Utterly disgusting.

I commented on that article too...saying they may aswell stop beating around the bush and just deliver a cyanide pill to everyone who is disabled and claiming benefits, or is long term unemployed and be done with it. As thats the way it seems to be heading to me.

[michael21]

40 hours a week for free :shocked:

[Vicky.]

40 hours a week for free :shocked:

There was a discussion on this a while back about people on jobseekers being made to do these 'work programs' and I was against that, but i am actually appalled that these programs are even being considered for people who have already fought their case and are officially unfit for work.

My point in the jobseekers thread was that if places such as tescos can create 'free' jobs, they could actually hire the staff and get them OFF the dole in the first place, not just keep taking people on for 3 month 'placements', not giving them a real job then moving on to the next free staff,

But this isnt about that. This is about forcing people who arent fit for work into work, and free work at that.

[Shaun]

oh jesus christ

[King Gizzard]

v0nMtSJDrGc

[Shaun]

I was wondering what that was for.

[michael21]

There was a discussion on this a while back about people on jobseekers being made to do these 'work programs' and I was against that, but i am actually appalled that these programs are even being considered for people who have already fought their case and are officially unfit for work.

My point in the jobseekers thread was that if places such as tescos can create 'free' jobs, they could actually hire the staff and get them OFF the dole in the first place, not just keep taking people on for 3 month 'placements', not giving them a real job then moving on to the next free staff,

But this isnt about that. This is about forcing people who arent fit for work into work, and free work at that.

is there not a law for this sorted of thing i cant see this going thought

[Vicky.]

v0nMtSJDrGc

Good to see

[Omah]

Damn the Tories ..... :mad:

[billy123]

v0nMtSJDrGc:joker:
Meanwhile

pnO1dLeQ_YA

David Cameron was also booed and jeered at the paralympics in the aquatic centre when he appeared on the big screen.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-and-george-osborne-booed-1301538

[Jake.]

Bloody hell

[joeysteele]

This is a policy that will come back to really haunt this coalition Govt in the future if it continues to ignore and totally disregard all the groups now outlining their opposition and genuine grievances as to it.
For the Lib Dems, it will be something they will pay a massive price for at not only the next election but for many after it too.

It is simply ridiculous, it is in effect also very cruel with little or no compassion at all.
Also as to ATOS assessments for the sick and disabled,I attended an ATOS assessment with a friend who is mentally disabled, had I not been there, he would have likely lost benefits.

The problem also is, Companies will not want to take on staff who may need a lot of time off in the future because of their disabilities and illnesses,free or not.
The sad thing is these new assessments were started in fact by Labour but they have been strengthened in severity by this coalition Govt.

Disaster looms and a lot of unnecessary worry and confusion for people genuinely ill or disabled. It really is a shocker when any Govt takes such a hard line with people who are genuinely ill or disabled.
I hope anyone who goes to these new assessments takes someone with them, if they have their benefits threatened, then appeal,it is amazing what happens there and how many get overturned.

All of this is a bad policy and not the time to be doing so much reform as to this issue, the sad thing is this Govt refuses to listen to even the expert groups who are warning of the folly of forcing disabled people into any kind of work.
It will not be good for Companies and will likely have massive detrimental effects on the disabled person's health overall too.
Of course there are disabled people who feel they could do some work and they should be encouraged and helped into some kind of very light work.
If they want to, work placement should be made voluntary,not a must with nasty threats to income.

As I say, it will come round to haunt this Govt and will be seen as another massive attack on the weakest,poorest and most vulnerable in society.

There are scroungers and people who abuse the system and of course they have to be rooted out but this whole policy needs a massive re-think and a lot more compassion introduced to the activities of all concerned too.

I hope Companies take a stand against this idea, I really do but some companies will love the idea of having staff for near free unfortunately, I just hope they are a minority though.

[the truth]

this useless lot wont worry about losing the disabled vote, theyll just remove the wheelchair ramp at the election polls. theyre that sick and Im not even joking!

[the truth]

this useless lot wont worry about losing the disabled vote, theyll just remove the wheelchair ramp at the election polls. theyre that sick and Im not even joking!

[Vicky.]

this useless lot wont worry about losing the disabled vote, theyll just remove the wheelchair ramp at the election polls. theyre that sick and Im not even joking!

Its quite sad that I can actually imagine something like this happening.

[billy123]

Its quite sad that I can actually imagine something like this happening.
They havent changed one little bit! The milk snatcher is alive and well and still influencing the conservatives. Its just a shame that so many youngsters who were too young to remember the heartache they caused last time were foolish enough to give them the chance to do it all over again.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H1OZbU_hAHI/TEShwLs3_3I/AAAAAAAAAC0/w1fdqvPHTiM/s1600/ThatcherCameron_s_20100302.jpg

[Vicky.]

They havent changed one little bit! The milk snatcher is alive and well and still influencing the conservatives. Its just a shame that so many youngsters who were too young to remember the heartache they caused last time were foolish enough to give them the chance to do it all over again.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H1OZbU_hAHI/TEShwLs3_3I/AAAAAAAAAC0/w1fdqvPHTiM/s1600/ThatcherCameron_s_20100302.jpg
I'm not old enough to remember it all last time, though I know Thatchers policies affected my grandparents something rotten (my grandfather was a miner) but from reading around a bit, it seems quite a lot of people think this time around they are actually worse D:

[Kizzy]

There was a discussion on this a while back about people on jobseekers being made to do these 'work programs' and I was against that, but i am actually appalled that these programs are even being considered for people who have already fought their case and are officially unfit for work.

My point in the jobseekers thread was that if places such as tescos can create 'free' jobs, they could actually hire the staff and get them OFF the dole in the first place, not just keep taking people on for 3 month 'placements', not giving them a real job then moving on to the next free staff,

But this isnt about that. This is about forcing people who arent fit for work into work, and free work at that.

Vicky, I really worry for the future of this country. We really need rid of this government, they are attacking the weakest members of our society and unlike in times past we no longer have the philanthropists to offset those hellbent on deepening the us / them divide.
I found this article whilst trying to find info on ATOS on the Joseph Rowntree foundation website...
http://www.socialworkfuture.org/index.php/articles-and-analysis/articles/193-the-truth-behind-welfare-reforms

[Vicky.]

See I really dont know if removing the current government would make much difference. The only other realistic option would be labour, and since they appear to be silent on this matter...they must agree with it. There doesnt seem to be any opposition at all. All parties seem quite happy to keep chugging along targetting the vulnerable members of society, and thats very worrying.

[Mystic Mock]

When I think this party can't get any worse they do get worse.

Im hoping Labour does beat them in the next election now after this, this is a dictatorship towards the disabled.

[lostalex]

stop giving tax breaks for religious organizations, why target the disabled? target religions please. think about how much the goverment could save if they stopped giving tax breaks to religions. It would be huge.

[Vicky.]

stop giving tax breaks for religious organizations, why target the disabled? target religions please. think about how much the goverment could save if they stopped giving tax breaks to religions. It would be huge.

Tbh we need to quit giving away so much foreign aid also(this idea is always unpopular though :laugh: ). We give loads to developing countries and they spend it on...things like space programs. How is that helpful :S

[joeysteele]

When I think this party can't get any worse they do get worse.

Im hoping Labour does beat them in the next election now after this, this is a dictatorship towards the disabled.

I agree with you .
I am now of the view that Labour doesn't really need to say or do that much now as to likely winning the next election.
Oppositions usually don't win elections it is Governments that lose them and this one is deep in the mire.

Gordon Brown was Mr Unelectable in May 2010, the new occupant of that position will be Nick Clegg in 2015. What the Lib Dems have supported and their betrayal of their voters will not vanish at the next election and they will at the very best get 15% to 16% of the votes in my opinion,at the very best.

At least 7% to 8% from them has gone into the Labour camp, that leaves Labour on a minimum likely of 37% but more likely higher than that when the election comes.

The Conservative's problem is that they hold some arrogance in that they haven't accepted that they did not get full endorsements of their policies at the last eelction, the Lib Dems for their part betrayed their voters trust and have in effect given the overall majority the Voters refused to give the Conservatives.

The deficit had to be tackled,they had the right idea but the policies are not working that they have put in place,a re-think is needed now not a few months before an elction.
The only thing that can be said is things are likely getting better only because they are getting worse slower.
Not a convincing argument.

With the bedroom tax due to come into effect around mid next year and later on again in 2013 the then re-structering of benefits to universal credit,(all fairly costly reforms in themselves before any gains are made),all that will seep through into 2014 and people will be really suffering, the poorest,weakest and most vulnerable that is.
By 2015, with the Lib Dems then likely appearing against them too,I believe the Conservatives have really no chance of any overall majority at the next election.

Therein lies the Conservatives likely nails in their electoral coffin, this sledgehammer taken to those that are weakest,poorest and most vulnerable along with this near obscene and heartless policy outlined on this thread as to the disabled and work, will leave the Conservatives lucky to get something like 34/5% in the election next time.

However,people need to know and remember that not a single policy like this could have been even possible without the Lib Dems supporting and voting for them in Parliament. I hope people never forget that.

There is a clear third of voters who will likely always back the main more right wing party but in 1997, a sea change did happen as to politics, it removed the status that the Conservatives were the natural party of Govt, in the easiest election to win likely ever, they failed to get the support of the Country for their policies.
These extreme policies,all designed and aimed at the most vulnerable in society shows an uncaring Govt that has little or even no compassion or understanding where both of those things should be.

The bedroom tax and this new plan for the disabled will have people up in arms against both policies. This coalition may yet go down as one fo the most disliked Govt's ever and I can see voters taking no chances again for another coalition and they will likely not for a long time vote in numbers again to give the Conservatives an overall majority.
Also of course the Lib Dems will now be blocking the boundary changes which will hit the Conservatives even more.

I just hope the day dawns where consensus politicians rule the day and they are in fact in all the 3 main parties.
The coalition should have been about big compromises and more consensus politics but it hasn't been sadly.

The disabled and sick deserve far better than this rotten and I would add, unjust policy in my opinion from any UK Government.

[Redway]

Tbh we need to quit giving away so much foreign aid also(this idea is always unpopular though :laugh: ). We give loads to developing countries and they spend it on...things like space programs. How is that helpful :S

Exactly. We need to sort out our own country first.

[Mystic Mock]

I agree with you .
I am now of the view that Labour doesn't really need to say or do that much now as to likely winning the next election.
Oppositions usually don't win elections it is Governments that lose them and this one is deep in the mire.

Gordon Brown was Mr Unelectable in May 2010, the new occupant of that position will be Nick Clegg in 2015. What the Lib Dems have supported and their betrayal of their voters will not vanish at the next election and they will at the very best get 15% to 16% of the votes in my opinion,at the very best.

At least 7% to 8% from them has gone into the Labour camp, that leaves Labour on a minimum likely of 37% but more likely higher than that when the election comes.

The Conservative's problem is that they hold some arrogance in that they haven't accepted that they did not get full endorsements of their policies at the last eelction, the Lib Dems for their part betrayed their voters trust and have in effect given the overall majority the Voters refused to give the Conservatives.

The deficit had to be tackled,they had the right idea but the policies are not working that they have put in place,a re-think is needed now not a few months before an elction.
The only thing that can be said is things are likely getting better only because they are getting worse slower.
Not a convincing argument.

With the bedroom tax due to come into effect around mid next year and later on again in 2013 the then re-structering of benefits to universal credit,(all fairly costly reforms in themselves before any gains are made),all that will seep through into 2014 and people will be really suffering, the poorest,weakest and most vulnerable that is.
By 2015, with the Lib Dems then likely appearing against them too,I believe the Conservatives have really no chance of any overall majority at the next election.

Therein lies the Conservatives likely nails in their electoral coffin, this sledgehammer taken to those that are weakest,poorest and most vulnerable along with this near obscene and heartless policy outlined on this thread as to the disabled and work, will leave the Conservatives lucky to get something like 34/5% in the election next time.

However,people need to know and remember that not a single policy like this could have been even possible without the Lib Dems supporting and voting for them in Parliament. I hope people never forget that.

There is a clear third of voters who will likely always back the main more right wing party but in 1997, a sea change did happen as to politics, it removed the status that the Conservatives were the natural party of Govt, in the easiest election to win likely ever, they failed to get the support of the Country for their policies.
These extreme policies,all designed and aimed at the most vulnerable in society shows an uncaring Govt that has little or even no compassion or understanding where both of those things should be.

The bedroom tax and this new plan for the disabled will have people up in arms against both policies. This coalition may yet go down as one fo the most disliked Govt's ever and I can see voters taking no chances again for another coalition and they will likely not for a long time vote in numbers again to give the Conservatives an overall majority.
Also of course the Lib Dems will now be blocking the boundary changes which will hit the Conservatives even more.

I just hope the day dawns where consensus politicians rule the day and they are in fact in all the 3 main parties.
The coalition should have been about big compromises and more consensus politics but it hasn't been sadly.

The disabled and sick deserve far better than this rotten and I would add, unjust policy in my opinion from any UK Government.

I 100% agree with you Joey, I will be shocked and disgusted if the public vote the Tories back in power at the next election.

[the truth]

Exactly. We need to sort out our own country first.

exactly charity begins at home
once you get your own house in order then you can help others
the UK owes in total debt private and public
£9 TRILLION

our debts are worse per head than almost every nation on earth, far far far worse than america, only ireland and 3 or 4 others have a worse debt per head than us

In total we oew £144,000 each and that includes all babies born and all 100 year olds too

to repeat the UK owes £9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

£9 TRILLION

:conf::conf::conf::conf::conf::conf:

[Mystic Mock]

If that's true The Truth then that is a disgrace, but tbf Labour started all that off didn't they?

[Kizzy]

If that's true The Truth then that is a disgrace, but tbf Labour started all that off didn't they?

no, they did not trigger a global worldwide recession regardless of all the tory spin.

[Mystic Mock]

no, they did not trigger a global worldwide recession regardless of all the tory spin.

Ok thanks, my mistake.

[joeysteele]

I 100% agree with you Joey, I will be shocked and disgusted if the public vote the Tories back in power at the next election.

They won't, I feel really able to predict that now,the blocking of the boundary changes itself will make it near impossible for them to get an overall majority and will help the Lib Dems hold seats the Conservatives would need.

I cannot see a thing they can do to sweeten the blows that are going to come from mid to late next year to a large number of peoples lives.
They would need to abandon most of the extreme elements of the policies against the diisabled and sitting tenants in social housing.
They will not do that.

With the Lib Dems as part of the coalition, there has only been one opposition voice against the policies being enacted since 2010.

By the end of 2014, so many people will have had their lives disrupted and near ruined by these policies and the disabled and their groups likely up in arms having to fight with costly appeals, to get back benefits and rights too which will be seen as wrongly removed from them, that by May 2015 when the next election has to be,this coalition will be likely as hated as much,if not moreso, as the last Labour Govt was in its final year or so.

That is all I can see happening now really.

[Kizzy]

I see it called waaay before then tbh...
Look at the reshuffle, what is he trying to do.. cause maximum destruction of society and the welfare state before he is ousted?..
Thank god for clegg and Ian duncan smith, clegg has his detractors but effing hell what would the country be like now without him?..
We would have had the workhouses reinstated! haha

[the truth]

no, they did not trigger a global worldwide recession regardless of all the tory spin.

a combination of both. truth is the UK economy has been ridiculously out of balance since the 1970s. total boom and bust economy. the vast swathes of unemployed working class people on benefits grew as a result of this destruction of the working class communities.

The fact thatcher killed off 1.3 million miners and shut down virtually every single coal pit with 1000 years+ of the worlds best coal left behind sums up how idiotic and spiteful she was. she couldnt even come to a compromise deal to keep open a few dozen of the best most economic pits. that was the obvious logical common sense way forward. concentrate your resources in fewer but better pits. the shafts needed rebuilding, deeper and wider and safer. the technology was always going to improve finding rich coal seams, which it now does. she didnt look long term, she didnt even look beyond her own ego. in the end thatcher oversaw the decimination of all industry, steel, copper, tin, slate, lime , coal etc etc

they broke up the steel works deliberately , stole their ideas and inventions, bankrupted them, then reset up the same company abroad with different company names and pretty much paying slave wages.

thats the tories, thats the story you wont hear on the bbc news? why?
The whole milk snatcher story was her sick way of proving to people, there was no such thing as society. lovely. then her son became an arms dealer

thatcher did nowt for small businesses either. she is the person who enslaved us to the dreadful vat, a tax that ensures the little man cannot becoe the big man. vat only helps massive companies. anyone who tells you otherwise hasnt got a clue.

[Kizzy]

I agree about the industries, coal mining was also outsourced but now its costing too much to import the stuff....watch the pits open up again.

[Shasown]

I agree about the industries, coal mining was also outsourced but now its costing too much to import the stuff....watch the pits open up again.

Not a viable option really, at the moment, too dangerous and too costly.

[Kizzy]

Not a viable option really, at the moment, too dangerous and too costly.

And we have employment and health and safety measures that the countries who currently supply us don't have don't forget.

[Shasown]

a combination of both. truth is the UK economy has been ridiculously out of balance since the 1970s. total boom and bust economy. the vast swathes of unemployed working class people on benefits grew as a result of this destruction of the working class communities.

The fact thatcher killed off 1.3 million miners and shut down virtually every single coal pit with 1000 years+ of the worlds best coal left behind sums up how idiotic and spiteful she was. she couldnt even come to a compromise deal to keep open a few dozen of the best most economic pits. that was the obvious logical common sense way forward. concentrate your resources in fewer but better pits. the shafts needed rebuilding, deeper and wider and safer. the technology was always going to improve finding rich coal seams, which it now does. she didnt look long term, she didnt even look beyond her own ego. in the end thatcher oversaw the decimination of all industry, steel, copper, tin, slate, lime , coal etc etc

they broke up the steel works deliberately , stole their ideas and inventions, bankrupted them, then reset up the same company abroad with different company names and pretty much paying slave wages.

thats the tories, thats the story you wont hear on the bbc news? why?
The whole milk snatcher story was her sick way of proving to people, there was no such thing as society. lovely. then her son became an arms dealer

thatcher did nowt for small businesses either. she is the person who enslaved us to the dreadful vat, a tax that ensures the little man cannot becoe the big man. vat only helps massive companies. anyone who tells you otherwise hasnt got a clue.

What a load of garbage.

VAT was introduced by a tory government yes thats true but not by Thatcher, try the 1970-1974 Ted Heath government as a starting point. ( Vat replaced Purchase Tax)

As for the Tories being to solely to blame for the increase in unemployment go have a look at the rise in unemployment under Labour governments. It was a result of policies by both governments, overspending in the worng areas and lack of investment by both Tories and Labour.

[Mystic Mock]

Both Tories and Labour stink, we need a new party that is middle of the road in it's policies (or has a wing at least as the Tories and Labour just bitch at each other with no policies and slowly killing this country off) and we also need a party that is actually good at law & order.

[Kizzy]

Both Tories and Labour stink, we need a new party that is middle of the road in it's policies (or has a wing at least as the Tories and Labour just bitch at each other with no policies and slowly killing this country off) and we also need a party that is actually good at law & order.

Do you mean a more 'liberal' party?...haha

[Kizzy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mandatory-work-scheme-expanded-7844795.html

So the disabled are moved from DLA to JSA and now guess what, all jobseekers are to be used as slaves.
Get a job or work for your benefits.

[Mrluvaluva]

"anyone re-claiming JSA will have to complete a full placement or face a further sanction."

That is not entirely fair either. Each case should surely be considered on it's own merit? What about people who have taken temporary short term positions and now find themselves unemployed again at the end of their term through no fault of their own? A lot of these new policies are actually quite disgusting in their treatment of the unemployed, sick and disabled. The trouble is nobody looks to the long term and uses the vulnerable for a quick fix in getting figures down. This is not the answer.

[Jack_]

****ing disgusting. As one of the comments succinctly put it, 'unemployment has now become a criminal offence'. I'm appalled.

[Kizzy]

****ing disgusting. As one of the comments succinctly put it, 'unemployment has now become a criminal offence'. I'm appalled.

Quite right we don't need to pay council employees to clean the streets of our towns and cities! we can get offenders to do it and call it 'community payback'...
Oh hang on... i've a better idea, lets get the unemployed to do it and call it the 'mandatory work activty scheme'... :devil: