Has Julie tipped the odds in her favour ??

[Nedusa]

Does anyone think Julie has now tipped the odds in her favour ?

When the nominations were announced Martin was the favourite to avoid eviction on Wed and go on to the final where he would also stand a good chance of winning due to his large fanbase. But in the last few days has Julie started a rearguard action since hearing the boos on Friday night.

A combination of circumstances may be now helping her win back fans who had previously thought she was too bitchy/backstabbing.

Since Friday Julie has now to a degree reverted back to the warmer character we saw in the first week. Her friendship with Julian seems genuine and this is a positive development. Also the task that resulted in Julie having her Clothes held up for ridicule would have helped Julie receive a lot of sympathy.
We also have the younger guys especially Harvey who have turned on Julie with a vengeance to the point where she is now the victim .

Finally notwithstanding all of the above Julie is still able to carry on and Rise above a lot of the backstabbing , not really reacting to hearing gossip about her when forced to read out such gossip in the latest task.

So do you think the tables are turning and tonight we may
See Julie avoid eviction and take her place in the the CBB final..!!!

[Kizzy]

Nah... she is out *crosses fingers*

[Nedusa]

Nah... she is out *crosses fingers*

So you don't think the last few days have made a diff to Julie's chances ??

[Gillian-73]

So you don't think the last few days have made a diff to Julie's chances ??

I do. I'm nowhere near as convinced she'll go as i was at the start of the week. I want her to go but don't think it'll be that clear cut!

[chuff me dizzy]

She not changed ,she never could, shes just doing a few extra insincere "I love you`s" no its time for her to go

[chuff me dizzy]

The only reason the others are not saying as much is because of the risk of it being shown in the news task

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

She not changed ,she never could, shes just doing a few extra insincere "I love you`s" no its time for her to go

Whatever you think of Julie, Harvey is no better. Instead of confronting Julie he starts bitching about her to everyone. Martin is upset with him this morning. I wonder what he did last night that was so bad. :suspect:

[Jake.]

Face it Chuff, all of them to a degree bitch/backstab in there, it's human nature, yet Julie is taking the heat.

[Nedusa]

The only reason the others are not saying as much is because of the risk of it being shown in the news task

Or maybe they realise if they keep up the group bitching sessions the viewers sympathies might start to switch back to Julie...!!!

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Face it Chuff, all of them to a degree bitch/backstab in there, it's human nature, yet Julie is taking the heat.

Exactly. She's not the only one who does it. Coleen gets away with it because she's Coleen. :nono:

[HBB1508]

I do think the tides are turning in Julie's favour now - she is going to get the sympathy vote from all the negative things that are being shown on the HL show so I've got a feeling she is going to be staying tonight.

[Gillian-73]

She not changed ,she never could, shes just doing a few extra insincere "I love you`s" no its time for her to go

She hasn't changed but she seems to be getting some sympathy. I wouldn't be surprised if she stays tonight now. Better get extra wine in just in case to drown my sorrows :D

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

She hasn't changed but she seems to be getting some sympathy. I wouldn't be surprised if she stays tonight now. Better get extra wine in just in case to drown my sorrows :D

If she stays i'm going to enjoy Harvey and his cronies shock reaction! :devil:

[chuff me dizzy]

She hasn't changed but she seems to be getting some sympathy. I wouldn't be surprised if she stays tonight now. Better get extra wine in just in case to drown my sorrows :D

i would lose my faith in human nature if she did stay

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

i would lose my faith in human nature if she did stay

I'd be very happy if she stayed! :dance:

[Nedusa]

If she stays i'm going to enjoy Harvey and his cronies shock reaction! :devil:

Absolutely , if she stays and puts Martin & Prince out she will be so buoyed up that I pity Harvey and Ashley for the tables will have been turned on them.

Without Martin to support them and with Julian probably even further up Julie's a*** Harvey and Co will get both barrels ... Should make for an entertaining final few days...!!!

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Absolutely , if she stays and puts Martin & Prince out she will be so buoyed up that I pity Harvey and Ashley for the tables will have been turned on them.

Without Martin to support them and with Julian probably even further up Julie's a*** Harvey and Co will get both barrels ... Should make for an entertaining final few days...!!!

I like Martin. He's a good man. It's Harvey who is the moron. Bitching about Julie to everyone, then actin like he's better than her. Hypocrite! :nono:

[Withano]

I think tonights gonna be close, any of them might stay.
I think whoever does stay will finish 4th behind Coleen, Julian and Mike and in front of Harvey and Ashley

[chuff me dizzy]

I'd be very happy if she stayed! :dance:

Behave !! Roman wont be happy you wanting his Dad out and the old twat to stay

[Nedusa]

I think tonights gonna be close, any of them might stay.
I think whoever does stay will finish 4th behind Coleen, Julian and Mike and in front of Harvey and Ashley

Does that mean you expect the Situation to beat your own favourite Julian into second place ??

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Behave !! Roman wont be happy you wanting his Dad out and the old twat to stay

I want boring Lorenzo to go. I like both Julie and Martin. :hugesmile:

[chuff me dizzy]

I like Martin. He's a good man. It's Harvey who is the moron. Bitching about Julie to everyone, then actin like he's better than her. Hypocrite! :nono:

Who has bitched more than julie ?

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Who has bitched more than julie ?

It's not how much they bitch. It's that everyone does it. Julie isn't the only one. But at least Martin tells Harvey off when he's out of order. Everyone else would never do that! He gets plenty of votes from me just for that! :worship::worship:

[Withano]

Does that mean you expect the Situation to beat your own favourite Julian into second place ??

I don't really know the order, but they're the top three for sure. If the Situation beats my own favourite, I win £78! So I kind of hope so!

[Nedusa]

I like Martin. He's a good man. It's Harvey who is the moron. Bitching about Julie to everyone, then actin like he's better than her. Hypocrite! :nono:

It's shame both Martin and Julie are both up for eviction in a double eviction with only 3 Nom HM. It's a bit odd that Harvey and Ashley have avoided being in the mix for eviction, especially Harvey as he's proving to be a bit of a snake.

But then perhaps Harvey has also been playing a game in there, getting his gang or posse to never Nom each other. It looks like it has paid dividends as none of the HAM HM are up tonight and all 3 have made it to the final...!!!

[chuff me dizzy]

It's shame both Martin and Julie are both up for eviction in a double eviction with only 3 Nom HM. It's a bit odd that Harvey and Ashley have avoided being in the mix for eviction, especially Harvey as he's proving to be a bit of a snake.

But then perhaps Harvey has also been playing a game in there, getting his gang or posse to never Nom each other. It looks like it has paid dividends as none of the HAM HM are up tonight and all 3 have made it to the final...!!!

Harvey is not up for eviction

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

It's shame both Martin and Julie are both up for eviction in a double eviction with only 3 Nom HM. It's a bit odd that Harvey and Ashley have avoided being in the mix for eviction, especially Harvey as he's proving to be a bit of a snake.

But then perhaps Harvey has also been playing a game in there, getting his gang or posse to never Nom each other. It looks like it has paid dividends as none of the HAM HM are up tonight and all 3 have made it to the final...!!!

Of course he's playing a game. I hope he's the first out on friday. He deserves very loud boos! :nono:

[chuff me dizzy]

Of course he's playing a game. I hope he's the first out on friday. He deserves very loud boos! :nono:

Harvey hasnt a chance in hell of winning

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Harvey hasnt a chance in hell of winning

That's good. He's a moron! I'd prefer anyone to in except him. :bored:

[thesheriff443]

That's good. He's a moron! I'd prefer anyone to in except him. :bored:

:joker: easy tiger:joker:

[Livia]

I find it hard to believe that Julie may have turned things around, despite BB's best efforts. Why was she given the newsreader task? Haven't they given her enough tasks to do? Even on BOTS last night, they used her "get it, got it, good" phrase several times on items that had nothing to do with Julie. She's a horrible, two-faced woman with an ego that far exceeds her talent. I hope she goes tonight.

[thesheriff443]

I find it hard to believe that Julie may have turned things around, despite BB's best efforts. Why was she given the newsreader task? Haven't they given her enough tasks to do? Even on BOTS last night, they used her "get it, got it, good" phrase several times on items that had nothing to do with Julie. She's a horrible, two-faced woman with an ego that far exceeds her talent. I hope she goes tonight.

i would find it very funny if she did win.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

i would find it very funny if she did win.

Imagine Harvey and his cronies face if she stays! :joker:

[Nedusa]

I find it hard to believe that Julie may have turned things around, despite BB's best efforts. Why was she given the newsreader task? Haven't they given her enough tasks to do? Even on BOTS last night, they used her "get it, got it, good" phrase several times on items that had nothing to do with Julie. She's a horrible, two-faced woman with an ego that far exceeds her talent. I hope she goes tonight.

Yes it's strange how in the last few days we have had a few instances where BB has engineered situations that result in Julie being shown in a sympathetic light. The DR clothes eg and the whole Newsroom task is showing Julie as having more dignity when she hears the other HM backstabbing comments.

And the HL with her and Julian this also shows her in a more positive light.
Its almost as if BB want her to stay in until the final...!!!

[chuff me dizzy]

I find it hard to believe that Julie may have turned things around, despite BB's best efforts. Why was she given the newsreader task? Haven't they given her enough tasks to do? Even on BOTS last night, they used her "get it, got it, good" phrase several times on items that had nothing to do with Julie. She's a horrible, two-faced woman with an ego that far exceeds her talent. I hope she goes tonight.

Yes me too, i too saw how edited last night was in her favour, when she came out of diary room after hearing Coleen say about her not giving anyone a cigarette all day ,and her gushing over Coleen :yuk::yuk: but I would love to bet she cursed her behind her back as she done from day 1, not shown ,why did it take listening to Coleen comment to make her give her a cigarette? she USED it again, thats why she was so pissed off when bb gave them cigarettes and refused to even give them a light,because she had lost the power of holding all the ciggies, sly,nasty and downright evil

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes it's strange how in the last few days we have had a few instances where BB has engineered situations that result in Julie being shown in a sympathetic light. The DR clothes eg and the whole Newsroom task is showing Julie as having more dignity when she hears the other HM backstabbing comments.

And the HL with her and Julian this also shows her in a more positive light.
Its almost as if BB want her to stay in until the final...!!!

Makes you wonder if its not in her contract to make final :idc:

[Nedusa]

Makes you wonder if its not in her contract to make final :idc:

So are you now starting to think there is a very real chance that she will not be evicted tonight ??

[Jake.]

Makes you wonder if its not in her contract to make final :idc:

Come off it, they have showed everybody in their good and bad lights, including Julie. Just because the hate has come off of her for a while :idc:

[chuff me dizzy]

So are you now starting to think there is a very real chance that she will not be evicted tonight ??

I darent even begin to think she could stay ,I know where the Stanley blades are kept

[Jake.]

She needs to stay in there for her own safety if anything, it keeps her protected from you

[chuff me dizzy]

She needs to stay in there for her own safety if anything, it keeps her protected from you

The Stanley blades are for ME :joker:

[Nedusa]

That's good. He's a moron! I'd prefer anyone to in except him. :bored:


He must be doing something right he has sailed into the CBB final and he has taken his two bessa mates with him...!!!

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

He must be doing something right he has sailed into the CBB final and he has taken his two bessa mates with him...!!!

The public sees everything. He'll be the first out on friday to a chorus of boos! :dance:

[flamingGalah!]

I'm keeping everything crossed that she stays, but sadly I think she will go...

[Nedusa]

I'm keeping everything crossed that she stays, but sadly I think she will go...

This is so going to be on the edge of your seat stuff this evening, for the first time in ages two big Celebs will face off against each other and to be honest I can't call it . Will be glued to TV tonight that's for sure...!!!

[Ellen]

Gushing over Coleen? :joker:
More like Julie was taking the piss out of the silly cow.

[toto7]

julie will unfortunately not go..we all know that..all the wrong people get saved..is it a rig or do people really like her??? maybe its all her corrie fans keeping her there.. i hope she goes tonite..but i think martin will..although we all know he shouldnt... why cant they play fair...fingers crossed!!!

[Nedusa]

julie will unfortunately not go..we all know that..all the wrong people get saved..is it a rig or do people really like her??? maybe its all her corrie fans keeping her there.. i hope she goes tonite..but i think martin will..although we all know he shouldnt... why cant they play fair...fingers crossed!!!


Yes I imagine BB have already got her throne ready for her on Friday...!!!

[joeysteele]

I want Julian to win but am giving Julie my votes now today in the eviction.
I can't say if she has turned things around for herself but in my view she didn't need to anyway.

[Patricia4]

Who has bitched more than julie ?

Coleen

[flamingGalah!]

This is so going to be on the edge of your seat stuff this evening, for the first time in ages two big Celebs will face off against each other and to be honest I can't call it . Will be glued to TV tonight that's for sure...!!!

I'm out tonight so wont be able to see it live :( Will be checking Twitter though to see who goes...

[Clootie Dumpling]

I find it hard to believe that Julie may have turned things around, despite BB's best efforts. Why was she given the newsreader task? Haven't they given her enough tasks to do? Even on BOTS last night, they used her "get it, got it, good" phrase several times on items that had nothing to do with Julie. She's a horrible, two-faced woman with an ego that far exceeds her talent. I hope she goes tonight.

You've hit the nail on the head here, I think, Livia.

Having seen how much Julie is despised on twitter and the forums, the CBB production team seems to have got cold feet and is wary of being criticised for allowing a feeble, old pensioner to be exposed, albeit for her own detestable behaviour.

Giving Julie the newsreader task, as opposed to any of the other HMs, allowed her bad behaviour to be exposed but simultaneously allowed Julie to reveal this knowledge at a distance and from a position of power. By reading HM's comments on camera from another room, she escaped the immediate repercussions she would have experienced if the announcements had been made by another HM, or by BB, while she was in the same room as the other HMs.

Giving her her own letter from home to read took the wind out of the sails of other HMs who had finally decided to show their true feelings about how she had behaved to them.

Personally, rather than being impressed how strong she'd been to keep her composure when she read her letter, I felt that if she could keep her control in this situation, she was perfectly capable of keeping control of her poisonous tongue. It also confirms what a hard cow she is and is also just as capable of letting any bad feeling run off like water from a duck's back - giving to the lie to her hystrionic and mawkish displays of emotion, when she's pretending to be upset.

I really felt for Coleen when she came in and smothered her with 'love' and kisses. THAT was bullying in the 1st degree.

Take the opportunity to get her out tonight by voting tactically. If she stays in after the first vote, vote for whoever is left for all you're worth. You won't get the opportunity again to ensure that she doesn't make the final.

[halfacrown]

Coleen

Coleen takes that huge spoon with her wherever she goes and starts to stir the sh*t. She is a dreadful, dull, phoney and a bore. A few years ago I got a train from Manchester to London and she was opposite me snogging some guy for two hours solid, I couldn't eat my sandwich...

Coleen and Harvey have been the real bitches in the house, so I'd be sad to see Julie go tonight instead of the other two.

[chuff me dizzy]

You've hit the nail on the head here, I think, Livia.

Having seen how much Julie is despised on twitter and the forums, the CBB production team seems to have got cold feet and is wary of being criticised for allowing a feeble, old pensioner to be exposed, albeit for her own detestable behaviour.

Giving Julie the newsreader task, as opposed to any of the other HMs, allowed her bad behaviour to be exposed but simultaneously allowed Julie to reveal this knowledge at a distance and from a position of power. By reading HM's comments on camera from another room, she escaped the immediate repercussions she would have experienced if the announcements had been made by another HM, or by BB, while she was in the same room as the other HMs.

Giving her her own letter from home to read took the wind out of the sails of other HMs who had finally decided to show their true feelings about how she had behaved to them.

Personally, rather than being impressed how strong she'd been to keep her composure when she read her letter, I felt that if she could keep her control in this situation, she was perfectly capable of keeping control of her poisonous tongue. It also confirms what a hard cow she is and is also just as capable of letting any bad feeling run off like water from a duck's back - giving to the lie to her hystrionic and mawkish displays of emotion, when she's pretending to be upset.

I really felt for Coleen when she came in and smothered her with 'love' and kisses. THAT was bullying in the 1st degree.

Take the opportunity to get her out tonight by voting tactically. If she stays in after the first vote, vote for whoever is left for all you're worth. You won't get the opportunity again to ensure that she doesn't make the final.

Dead right on the Coleen kisses, it was like "Right bitch Im kissing you ,so youve got to kiss my arse" yes,bullying

[ozzyshaggah]

julie to stay
Martins got to many splinters in his arse from sitting on the fence
and money bags has no backbone so hes gone

only leaves julie to stay

[Gillian-73]

This is so going to be on the edge of your seat stuff this evening, for the first time in ages two big Celebs will face off against each other and to be honest I can't call it . Will be glued to TV tonight that's for sure...!!!

I am really looking forward to it!
Remember everyone first show is on at 8pm

[Nedusa]

You've hit the nail on the head here, I think, Livia.

Having seen how much Julie is despised on twitter and the forums, the CBB production team seems to have got cold feet and is wary of being criticised for allowing a feeble, old pensioner to be exposed, albeit for her own detestable behaviour.

Giving Julie the newsreader task, as opposed to any of the other HMs, allowed her bad behaviour to be exposed but simultaneously allowed Julie to reveal this knowledge at a distance and from a position of power. By reading HM's comments on camera from another room, she escaped the immediate repercussions she would have experienced if the announcements had been made by another HM, or by BB, while she was in the same room as the other HMs.

Giving her her own letter from home to read took the wind out of the sails of other HMs who had finally decided to show their true feelings about how she had behaved to them.

Personally, rather than being impressed how strong she'd been to keep her composure when she read her letter, I felt that if she could keep her control in this situation, she was perfectly capable of keeping control of her poisonous tongue. It also confirms what a hard cow she is and is also just as capable of letting any bad feeling run off like water from a duck's back - giving to the lie to her hystrionic and mawkish displays of emotion, when she's pretending to be upset.

I really felt for Coleen when she came in and smothered her with 'love' and kisses. THAT was bullying in the 1st degree.

Take the opportunity to get her out tonight by voting tactically. If she stays in after the first vote, vote for whoever is left for all you're worth. You won't get the opportunity again to ensure that she doesn't make the final.


Good Post, I take it from that your not a big Julie Fan. I agree Julie's behaviour when she attempted to build bridges with Coleen after leaving the DR was more than a bit awkward, also what we probably never saw or heard was after Julie had walked away she probably muttered something like ..." what a Bitch" !!! ...

So I think BB is deliberately trying to show her in the most positive light they can. And in my opinion it has worked , so tonight may see her march on to the final. And if that happens what are the odds of her winning.. Getting lower by the day I'd imagine...!!!

[Clootie Dumpling]

Good Post, I take it from that your not a big Julie Fan. I agree Julie's behaviour when she attempted to build bridges with Coleen after leaving the DR was more than a bit awkward, also what we probably never saw or heard was after Julie had walked away she probably muttered something like ..." what a Bitch" !!! ...

So I think BB is deliberately trying to show her in the most positive light they can. And in my opinion it has worked , so tonight may see her march on to the final. And if that happens what are the odds of her winning.. Getting lower by the day I'd imagine...!!!

Well spotted, Nedusa! :hugesmile:I think she's behaved appallingly from Day 1. If anyone doubts she's being fake with her lovey-dovey act, they only have to look at her late night conversations with poor, old Julian. Telling him what a wonderful actress she is and saying that she'll be putting on the charm (charm? What charm?) the next day.

[Nedusa]

Well spotted, Nedusa! :hugesmile:I think she's behaved appallingly from Day 1. If anyone doubts she's being fake with her lovey-dovey act, they only have to look at her late night conversations with poor, old Julian. Telling him what a wonderful actress she is and saying that she'll be putting on the charm (charm? What charm?) the next day.

Yes fair play to Julian for sticking with Julie, watching their conversations you can't help but think he is not fully committed to her, only trying to be supportive and keep the peace. I have to say he has been very helpful to her in the last few days and has probably increased his chances of winning. Was already my favourite but now perhaps a lot more people's ....!!!

[BigBrotherfan4ever]

I still think Julie will be saved tonight.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I still think Julie will be saved tonight.

Yeah, i hope so! :(

[DanielLuis]

Julie simply deserves to be saved tonight, specially with who she's up again, and with the likes of Ashley and Harvey in the final.

[chuff me dizzy]

Julie simply deserves to be saved tonight, specially with who she's up again, and with the likes of Ashley and Harvey in the final.

Ashley and harvey are in the final anyway,no matter whos stays tonight, but neither have a hope of winning ,so this doesnt bother me

[Clootie Dumpling]

Ashley and harvey are in the final anyway,no matter whos stays tonight, but neither have a hope of winning ,so this doesnt bother me

With you all the way on that one, Chuff. Our job tonight is to try and make sure Julie sinks like a stone!

[DanielLuis]

Ashley and harvey are in the final anyway,no matter whos stays tonight, but neither have a hope of winning ,so this doesnt bother me

Yeah, but they definetely deserved to be evicted a long time ago. 6th and 5th are coming to get them anyway.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Yeah, but they definetely deserved to be evicted a long time ago. 6th and 5th are coming to get them anyway.

They don't deserve to make the final. Julie better stay! :nono:

[Clootie Dumpling]

They don't deserve to make the final. Julie better stay! :nono:

I hope she doesn't because, despite her OTT demonstrations of being upset at other HMs comments, she's got skin as thick as an elephant's and I don't think they've really affected her much - just given her some ammunition to seek her teeth into.

What'd really upset her would be failing to make the Final. She's already conceded that she can't win, although I think she fully expected to. (Like her rather gormless husband, Scott, she probably believes that's down to getting some bad edits.)

If she gets booted out tonight as she deserves, she can't continue to delude herself that she's loved and admired by the GBP.

If you're in any doubt about whether to support her or not, just ask youself if you'd be prepared to sit next to her and be embarrassed by the way she acts and talks if she were an ageing relative of yours. I know I wouldn't!

[flamingGalah!]

I'd love Julie as my Nana! :p

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I'd love Julie as my Nana! :p

She reminds me of my late nan a bit! She was outrageous and funny! :hugesmile:

[Clootie Dumpling]

I'd love Julie as my Nana! :p

Would you really love her to maul your face with her nicotine stained talons, while hissing endearments through her tombstone teeth with a barely disguised sneer?

[flamingGalah!]

Yes :xyxwave:

[Nedusa]

Yeah, but they definetely deserved to be evicted a long time ago. 6th and 5th are coming to get them anyway.

Makes you wonder how Cheryl got evicted so early on, she was probably one of the most entertaining characters in there and definitely did not deserve 12th place whilst Harvey and Ashley make the final and can do no worse than 6th & 5th.

[Ellen]

I hope she stays, she has been a great housemate.

[ransom]

She'll still go. Her crocodile tears and "I'm doing it for the pensioners!" rubbish was so transparent it was cringe worthy. Maybe some have started to feel sympathy for her, not enough to turn the tide though.

[Nedusa]

Would you really love her to maul your face with her nicotine stained talons, while hissing endearments through her tombstone teeth with a barely disguised sneer?

Ha Ha ... lol !! love this description, you forgot to mention her Gum chewing/ Cud Munching...!!!

[chuff me dizzy]

She'll still go. Her crocodile tears and "I'm doing it for the pensioners!" rubbish was so transparent it was cringe worthy. Maybe some have started to feel sympathy for her, not enough to turn the tide though.

They have on here, but not on facebook or bookies

[boomoo]

Who has bitched more than julie ?

Coleen an absolute misery. I thought she would be fun. No chance.

Harvey. I thought he was a paragon of virtue but apparently not. Yet he has continuosly bithced first with Julie and now against her.

Lorenzo has kept up a continuos complaint about other housemates particularly against Julie.

Martin has set the seeds against Julie.

They do not have anything much to do apart from talk about each other. They seem to think we need to be told the housemates faults just incase we miss them. Which of course we do because we only see less than 60 mins per day. Even if we see a clip on BBBOTS we see a repeat on the main show.

So yes we see plenty of bitching because what we are shown is meant to influence our vote.

[Flamingjoe]

I reckon she'll be topping the votes when Lorenzo is evicted; but once they re-open the phone lines when Martin and Julie are left, she'll be evicted.

[Nedusa]

I reckon she'll be topping the votes when Lorenzo is evicted; but once they re-open the phone lines when Martin and Julie are left, she'll be evicted.

So you're saying Lorenzo's fans will switch their votes to Martin once Lorenzo is evicted. Is that the correct assumption ??