Drugs - views?

[Redway]

I know we've just had a cannabis thread in this section but what do you think of (illegal) drugs in general? Do you think all illegal drugs should stay that way...? If not, which ones would you legalise or not? Do you think it should be up to the government to decide or the individual?

[Ninastar]

should remain illegal

[MTVN]

As a very general rule I don't think prohibition is the most effective way of tackling the drug problem, if not legalisation I'd favour decriminalisation

[Shaun]

Depends on how addictive they are, but then again nicotine is right up there in terms of addiction...

I think there are obvious awful drugs - heroin, crystal meth, crack. But some seem to be used more recreationally, and I've never heard of LCD or ecstacy addicts.

[Alf]

and I've never heard of LCD or ecstacy addicts.
shaun ryder and bez in their heyday

[Redway]

If nothing else cannabis should obviously be legalised.

[arista]

should remain illegal


Do not worry
They Will


Both Labour and Conservative agree on that

[Omah]

Drugs are for mugs ..... :hmph:

[Alf]

Drugs are for mugs ..... :hmph:
you wouldn't say that if you put an e down your neck, you'd have the time of your life.:dance:

[Omah]

you wouldn't say that if you put an e down your neck, you'd have the time of your life.:dance:

Been there, done that ..... :bored:

[AnnieK]

Like a lot of people my age, I experimented heavily with recreational drugs during the early rave days and they did me no harm although I did witness something that made me wake up and stop. I did meet some shady characters during those days and to be fair we were more at risk of what some of the drugs were cut with than actually the drugs themselves and if legalising them took away some of the problems of dodgy drugs I am all for that. However, I can't see it ever happening as there are far too many problems with the harder drugs, heroin, crack etc and with current classifications as they are they would not be able to legalise some class a drugs and not others.

[Omah]

Like a lot of people my age, I experimented heavily with recreational drugs during the early rave days and they did me no harm although I did witness something that made me wake up and stop. I did meet some shady characters during those days and to be fair we were more at risk of what some of the drugs were cut with than actually the drugs themselves and if legalising them took away some of the problems of dodgy drugs I am all for that. However, I can't see it ever happening as there are far too many problems with the harder drugs, heroin, crack etc and with current classifications as they are they would not be able to legalise some class a drugs and not others.

Yeah, AFAIK, taking large amounts of lots of differents illegal drugs did ME no irreparable harm, but many friends/acquaintances suffered all sorts of temporary/permanent physical and mental abberations from taking drugs obtained from dubious sources - who knows what substances other than the (dangerous) drug were ingested ..... :eek:

Even cigarettes contain 4,000 (frequently dangerous) substances other than nicotine ..... :yuk:

[Tom4784]

Depends on the drug.

[Saph]

if they do damage then leave them illegal

[thesheriff443]

give all the junkie's all the drugs they want in one go!

[Ammi]

..no, I wouldn't want all drugs to be legalised..you have to look at things individually...you can't just lump them all together like that and say let's legalise them all...

[GypsyGoth]

Give the junkies what they want.

It's a way of stopping the majority of crime around drugs. And it would take power away from gangsters and put it into the hands of medical professionals.

[Redway]

Give the junkies what they want.

It's a way of stopping the majority of crime around drugs. And it would take power away from gangsters and put it into the hands of medical professionals.

:worship:

[Kizzy]

This is one hypothetical too far..
haha! deffo no!
It would lead to a zombie invasion of monged out twonks :)

[Niall]

If i had my way, I'd begin government sponsored trials and studies into each one and what exactly their effects are on people, and to see if those ill effects can be stamped out or made less prominent so that the drug could be sold in a 'safe' manner (albeit heavily taxed). I just think its especially idiotic that medical trials aren't conducted so we don't have an inside out knowledge on these substances. :bored:

I also think that the current attitude toward drugs just isn't working. The whole illegalisation of them only forces the trade underground and into the hands of criminals. Being sold by such shady individuals leaves them in a dangerously unregulated state. I'd much rather the government sell them with a standard set of chemicals in each one than the plethora of varieties that are out there now. It'd be far more safe.

Plus, government control of currently-illegal substances could bring in valuable tax revenue. Implementing those sort of policies, and in general trying to be a lot more progressive in our attitudes toward drugs would probably lead to a lot of the ill effects they cause become far less pronounced. The whole demonisation of them doesn't work at the moment, and that so painfully obvious I just don't understand why everyone hasn't already realised it.

[joeysteele]

I would on balance support legalising cannabis, no others though.

I personally would never take any but do think weighing up the plus and minus to the issue, that I could support cannabis being legalised.

[Ramsay]

Keep the hardcore stuff illegal
Weed and MDMA should be legalized

[Kizzy]

Keep the hardcore stuff illegal
Weed and MDMA should be legalized

Weed and MDMA eh...
So just the ones (some) people use recreationally?
I'm starting to believe that the folks that are for legalisation are suffering some kind of internal moral turmoil...
They know that using an illegal substance is wrong, therefore it would ease their conscience if it were made legal.

[Redway]

Weed and MDMA eh...
So just the ones (some) people use recreationally?
I'm starting to believe that the folks that are for legalisation are suffering some kind of internal moral turmoil...
They know that using an illegal substance is morally wrong, therefore it would ease their conscience if it were made legal.

Not really. Not everything that's illegal should be that way. :tongue:

[Kizzy]

Not really. Not everything that's illegal should be that way. :tongue:
I would have thought if a substance was illegal there was a good reason why it's illegal...
But it's your perogative to think differently.

[joeysteele]

Well many activities that used to be illegal have been made legal and those changes were for the better.
If cannabis for instance was made legal, possibly prices would fall, those reliant on it may not be then pressured for more funds to obtain it, therefore possibly crime could fall as a result.
People would then not be criminalised for using it so much and it also may even lose its attraction for some too.

Okay, there are a lot of possibles in that statement but I do feel often some things that are not legal do need to be changed and made legal across all issues.
I have never touched a drug or even smoked cigarettes in my life, however,I am clearly aware of drugs and have seen good and bad as to their use.
I have seen far more problems with alcohol than for instance cannabis.

It was Livia I think, who pointed out that people who used cannabis, still went about their lives, doing their jobs, likely high or low profile ones,with no problems whatsoever or knock on effect to others.
There has been talk of cannabis being made possibly legal in the past, it has in the past been downgraded and upgraded as a drug but it does seem that even Govts have doubts that it should be competely illegal.

I have looked at the 'plus and minus' elements to this issue and as I said earlier, have seen the paranoia it can cause in some users but I have also learned of immense relief to people in severe pain, particularly cancer pain after taking cannabis too.
ALL things are not so black and white all the time, there are many grey areas in lots of issues, for me cannabis is such a grey area that maybe needs some relaxation or abolishment as to the criminal aspect of it.
That is why, if I had a vote on it, I would vote to legalise cannabis at this time.

I also think the day when it is at least massively downgraded is not really that far off too.

[Kizzy]

Why has this turned into another cannabis thread?
:idc:

[joeysteele]

Why has this turned into another cannabis thread?
:idc:

Because it relates to drugs and the legalising of all or some drugs,
I voted to legalise some and not others, cannabis is the drug I would support the legalisation of so have given my reasons for that.
Just as others have expressed views that no drugs should be legalised.

Either way it is a thread pertaining to peoples views on the legalisation of any drugs so cannabis or any other drug people wish to mention are in my view anyway, perfectly relevant to the threads question and ongoing topic.

[Kizzy]

Because it relates to drugs and the legalising of all or some drugs,
I voted to legalise some and not others, cannabis is the drug I would support the legalisation of so have given my reasons for that.
Just as others have expressed views that no drugs should be legalised.

Either way it is a thread pertaining to peoples views on the legalisation of any drugs so cannabis or any other drug people wish to mention are in my view anyway, perfectly relevant to the threads question and ongoing topic.

All anyone has is speculation, you more than most have the capacity to grasp the complexity of legalising a previously prohibited substance.
age limit? tax? cost? strength? availability? regulations?
Will those found to be importing this 'legal' substance still face prosecution?
Would there be similar sanctions for driving under the influence?
It would be a legislative nightmare... And I really could never see it happening here.

[arista]

"I really could never see it happening here."

Bang On right Kizzy

Get Down and Funky
Watch Out for Them Junkies

[AnnieK]

All anyone can do is speculate and I firmly believe it will never happen. No government would ever take the risk of legalising all drugs.

I Personally think that anything that takes the stereotypical "dealer" out of the equation would be a massive plus. A lot of illegal drugs have ingredients that are used quite legally pharmaceutically but once the dealers cut them with rat poison, drain cleaner etc etc problems really begin. Kizzy is also spot on about the complexity of the issue but in my mind it is doable - although it would take years as there would need to be stringent drug tests etc

I can see both side in this argument but I think is pretty safe to say drugs will stay illegal for at last the foreseeable future.

[Jesus.]

All anyone has is speculation, you more than most have the capacity to grasp the complexity of legalising a previously prohibited substance.
age limit? tax? cost? strength? availability? regulations?
Will those found to be importing this 'legal' substance still face prosecution?
Would there be similar sanctions for driving under the influence?
It would be a legislative nightmare... And I really could never see it happening here.

Age limit - Yes.

Tax - Definitely.

Strength - a range of strengths to be advertised and developed, and these are stated clearly on the packaging. This happens in Amsterdam.
Availability? What do you mean by this? Of course they need to be made available, but only in specialist shops. These don't need to be hidden away so we develop a drugs only ghetto, but entry into these shops should only be allowed for adults (18+), and they should only have blacked out windows without any paraphernalia displayed to the public walking by.

Regulations - What additional regs do you need?

Importing - Of course they will be prosecuted. Except now they can be prosecuted for avoidance of tax, rather than as drug importation crimes.

DUI - Of course people will be prosecuted for this, just as they already are.

Legislative nightmare doesn't really mean anything though. It just means that a path needs to be found through so we can sort this mess out. You've not raised one point in this post that is prohibitive to the changing of UK drug laws.

[Ramsay]

Weed and MDMA eh...
So just the ones (some) people use recreationally?
I'm starting to believe that the folks that are for legalisation are suffering some kind of internal moral turmoil...
They know that using an illegal substance is wrong, therefore it would ease their conscience if it were made legal.

I really doubt that :joker:

[joeysteele]

All anyone has is speculation, you more than most have the capacity to grasp the complexity of legalising a previously prohibited substance.
age limit? tax? cost? strength? availability? regulations?
Will those found to be importing this 'legal' substance still face prosecution?
Would there be similar sanctions for driving under the influence?
It would be a legislative nightmare... And I really could never see it happening here.

I actually go a great way,in fact near all the way with you in what you outline above.

While I also agree it is likely a legislative nightmare,that shouldn't,in my opinion, be a barrier to its future consideration.
Unlike you and I totally respect your view naturally, I actually can see changes coming and not that far off in the future,certainly as to cannabis,(sorry to mention it again),at least.

[InOne]

Cocaine is the drug I try to avoid. I just keep wanting more when I take it. I could see myself getting addicted to it, but it doesn't even really do anything, there's just something about it. And even when I'm offered it on a night out I never say no.

Don't do coke kids :nono:

[Omah]

All anyone has is speculation, you more than most have the capacity to grasp the complexity of legalising a previously prohibited substance.
age limit? tax? cost? strength? availability? regulations?
Will those found to be importing this 'legal' substance still face prosecution?
Would there be similar sanctions for driving under the influence?
It would be a legislative nightmare... And I really could never see it happening here.

Yeah, lots of speculation ..... ;)

Legalisation of this particular Class B drug would raise more issues that it would resolve and no UK government would contemplate such a move anyway because of the sheer scale and cost involved, to say nothing of the international political and economic considerations and ramifications ..... :pipe:

[SharkAttack]

MDMA years ago was great, but it's true, there was the safety risk in the recreational drug use world. Regulated would mean a safer, cleaner drug as well. Might make for some nice weekends and good dance moves. And hey, we could all use a bit more exercise. http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp32/sharkattack_torrential/laugh.gif

[Kizzy]

Age limit - Yes.

Tax - Definitely.

Strength - a range of strengths to be advertised and developed, and these are stated clearly on the packaging. This happens in Amsterdam.
Availability? What do you mean by this? Of course they need to be made available, but only in specialist shops. These don't need to be hidden away so we develop a drugs only ghetto, but entry into these shops should only be allowed for adults (18+), and they should only have blacked out windows without any paraphernalia displayed to the public walking by.

Regulations - What additional regs do you need?

Importing - Of course they will be prosecuted. Except now they can be prosecuted for avoidance of tax, rather than as drug importation crimes.

DUI - Of course people will be prosecuted for this, just as they already are.

Legislative nightmare doesn't really mean anything though. It just means that a path needs to be found through so we can sort this mess out. You've not raised one point in this post that is prohibitive to the changing of UK drug laws.

Ok..wow, you make it sound soo easy haha!
How about this then,
who are the distributors...if the government gets the tax who gets the profits?

[Omah]

Ok..wow, you make it sound soo easy haha!
How about this then,
who are the distributors...if the government gets the tax who gets the profits?

Yeah ..... :thumbs:

And who makes it?

And what happens to those profiteers put out of business and the thousands of slaves that are no longer required?

And what replaces the governments that rose to power on drug profits and can no longer sustain their authority?

[the truth]

the secret to truly tackling the drugs problem isnt just education, its also of course creating jobs and prosperity , but its actually to try and create ambitoon in people, to inspire people to want a better life

[joeysteele]

Govts have though looked at the legalising of at least cannabis, the last Labour Govt did, it also went on to downgrade it too for a period.

I think Govts would have the courage to do it depending on the advice of drugs organisations. Attitudes change and Govts change with them.

[Stu]

Legalise and directly control the production and sale of Cannabis and Ecstasy. Owing to the fact that the law against these two substances do more damage than the substances themselves.

Decriminalise everything else. This means we don't go selling Heroin in shops, but at the same time we don't trample on the cognitive liberties of those using them and instead use our resources to go after the production end of the drug.

I wouldn't go selling psychedelics in shops either due to the simple fact that a lot of people are simply too irresponsible and reckless to use them. Let those who want to source them and experience their oft wonderful effects do so. These drugs don't really suffer contamination as a result of not having a controlled production anyway. Putting people in cages because they wanted an acid trip is just ... it's inherently evil.

They know that using an illegal substance is wrong, therefore it would ease their conscience if it were made legal.
Half of that is right. For entirely "duh" worthy reasons. Of course users of illegal drugs would rather not shoulder the burden on themselves of having to deal with an illegal marketplace in order to exercise their unrecognised by the state freedom to put what they want in their own bodies.

It's none of your business.

I would have thought if a substance was illegal there was a good reason why it's illegal...
You're taking the mick, right? Regardless of how you feel about these drugs their illegality stems from premature moral panic and lobbyists worrying about losing profits.

Examine the prohibition of Cannabis in America. You clearly have no grounding in this. It's terrifying how much ignorance exists. Your caricature of drug users being permanently monged out drains on society is irritatingly offensive.

Why don't you apply the same characteristics to people who partake in alcohol? Because it's legal and you're conditioned to see moderate use of it as morally acceptable.

And guess what? You're side is going to lose. The American states are falling like dominoes. Scores of mainland European countries are taking more liberal approaches. And it's working.

Drug decriminalisation in Portugal is a famed example of a pragmatic approach that worked.

But who needs to waste all that effort thinking. You can have your views and you're more than entitled to poorly defend them with that odd grammar hiccup posting style that's hallmark of any good armchair forum user.

Jesus H. Christ made a very good post tackling all your issues one by one and all you could muster up in response was "well who makes the drugs?!" as if this was some madly incomprehensible fault of logic on his part.

You know we have industry in the world right? Who makes and distributes alcohol? Who makes children's toys?

Good grief, woman.

[the truth]

anyone who takes drugs for anything other than medically prescribed reasons is an idiot.

[Kizzy]

Legalise and directly control the production and sale of Cannabis and Ecstasy. Owing to the fact that the law against these two substances do more damage than the substances themselves.

Decriminalise everything else. This means we don't go selling Heroin in shops, but at the same time we don't trample on the cognitive liberties of those using them and instead use our resources to go after the production end of the drug.

I wouldn't go selling psychedelics in shops either due to the simple fact that a lot of people are simply too irresponsible and reckless to use them. Let those who want to source them and experience their oft wonderful effects do so. These drugs don't really suffer contamination as a result of not having a controlled production anyway. Putting people in cages because they wanted an acid trip is just ... it's inherently evil.


Half of that is right. For entirely "duh" worthy reasons. Of course users of illegal drugs would rather not shoulder the burden on themselves of having to deal with an illegal marketplace in order to exercise their unrecognised by the state freedom to put what they want in their own bodies.

It's none of your business.


You're taking the mick, right? Regardless of how you feel about these drugs their illegality stems from premature moral panic and lobbyists worrying about losing profits.

Examine the prohibition of Cannabis in America. You clearly have no grounding in this. It's terrifying how much ignorance exists. Your caricature of drug users being permanently monged out drains on society is irritatingly offensive.

Why don't you apply the same characteristics to people who partake in alcohol? Because it's legal and you're conditioned to see moderate use of it as morally acceptable.

And guess what? You're side is going to lose. The American states are falling like dominoes. Scores of mainland European countries are taking more liberal approaches. And it's working.

Drug decriminalisation in Portugal is a famed example of a pragmatic approach that worked.

But who needs to waste all that effort thinking. You can have your views and you're more than entitled to poorly defend them with that odd grammar hiccup posting style that's hallmark of any good armchair forum user.

Jesus H. Christ made a very good post tackling all your issues one by one and all you could muster up in response was "well who makes the drugs?!" as if this was some madly incomprehensible fault of logic on his part.

You know we have industry in the world right? Who makes and distributes alcohol? Who makes children's toys?

Good grief, woman.

Just stop!
You are talking as if i'm treating you like some pariah stu.
I don't care what you choose to put in your body.
You have your view and I have mine.
The only point I will make as you have an issue with my response to jesus is how will creating more industries whose business involves the production of addictive substances?
Our government at the minute is straining to find resources to tackle the ones we have now...
The financial and health implications of being addicted to cigs and alcohol affects many across all socioeconomic groups.
Thats really alI I want to say stu, if you think my view is boring/ old fashioned/ short-sighted fine.
We are on different sides of the fence, you look at the pros I see the cons...

[the truth]

Theres always an action and reaction...those who think outlawing drugs is old fashioned and somehow society will be progressing if we legalise have their views....have they thought out how this will affect all of society? Its strange how those in favour of legalizing drugs are also in favpour of euthanasia....they seem to think these are all issues that must happen to progress society....I think it must be resoisted, as these 2 issues would unleash the gates of hell itself....People would be killed off left right and centre, people would be tkaing more and more drugs younger and younger and the fact its legal would for the vats majority be a way of saying its safe.... if a doctor prescribes drugs , even then I question why, if its seen as the best course, so be it....other than that human beings need to learn to love and enjoy this beautiful world without mind altering drugs and often life diminishing, life threatening drugs....that goes for tobacco too

[Omah]

Drug decriminalisation in Portugal is a famed example of a pragmatic approach that worked.

It seems that decriminalisation is NOT the same as making legal (which was the thrust of the OP) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Cultivation_and_distributi on

In July 2001 a new law maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. The offense was changed from a criminal one, with prison a possible punishment, to an administrative one if the amount possessed was no more than ten days' supply of that substance. This was in line with the de facto Portuguese drug policy before the reform. Drug addicts were then to be aggressively targeted with therapy or community service rather than fines or waivers. Even if there are no criminal penalties, these changes did not legalize drug use in Portugal. Possession has remained prohibited by Portuguese law, and criminal penalties are still applied to drug growers, dealers and traffickers.

Nevertheless, there were effects :

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html#ixzz2CiehxDjS

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.

However, even for cannabis :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Cultivation_and_distributi on

Recreational use of cannabis is forbidden by law.

The cultivation of cannabis, even small-scale home grown for personal use only, can legally be prosecuted.

The buying of cannabis seeds from legal and financially transparent online cannabis seed shops based in other European Union member states, such as neighbouring Spain or The Netherlands, is an unlawful transaction when performed by a Portuguese residing in Portugal.