Church of England votes against women bishops

[arista]

Yes Women must stay in the Kitchen
the Church says - in so many words.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9689903/Crisis-as-Church-of-England-votes-against-women-bishops.html


"Crisis as Church of England votes against women bishops
The Church of England has been plunged into its biggest crisis for decades after the General Synod rejected women bishops despite overwhelming support for the change."

[Marc]

arista :bored: :laugh:

[Livia]

If a woman has the calling to progress in the church I can't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Women make up a third of the clergy of the Church of England after all.

[Shaun]

progress~

[Niamh.]

If a woman has the calling to progress in the church I can't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Women make up a third of the clergy of the Church of England after all.

It's nearly worse that they're actually able to be Vicars (?) but can never rise up the ladder

[the truth]

If a woman has the calling to progress in the church I can't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Women make up a third of the clergy of the Church of England after all.

Whats the rules on this in the synagogue? Can you ever have a female rabbi?

[Roy Mars III]

it would do against the Bible which clearly says that women can not be the head of a conjugation, so is anyone surprised?

[arista]

It's nearly worse that they're actually able to be Vicars (?) but can never rise up the ladder



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/20/article-2235906-1622B975000005DC-548_306x423.jpg

[Livia]

Whats the rules on this in the synagogue? Can you ever have a female rabbi?

Yes, you do get female Rabbis. You must have heard of Rabbi Julia Neuberger, she's quite a famous broadcaster.

[King Gizzard]

COE in being idiots shocker

[Shaun]

it would do against the Bible which clearly says that women can not be the head of a conjugation, so is anyone surprised?

considering the number of activities practised by most CofE members that are forbidden in certain books of the Bible, just a bit, yes

[the truth]

Yes, you do get female Rabbis. You must have heard of Rabbi Julia Neuberger, she's quite a famous broadcaster.

No sorry I havent. Thats good to hear. I cant see any problem with female bishops at all. Incidentally who is above the rabbis , whats the chain of command to the top in Judaism.

[Livia]

It's nearly worse that they're actually able to be Vicars (?) but can never rise up the ladder

A female vicar took my husband's funeral service. She was wonderful, couldn't fault her at all. She made time with me to make it very personal and included everyone in the service, Christians, Jews, athiests... it was amazing how inclusive she made it. She was also very helpful and kind with my nieces and took the time to answer questions they had. Without disrespecting male vicars, I don't think a male would necessarily have handled it in the same way.

[Livia]

No sorry I havent. Thats good to hear. I cant see any problem with female bishops at all. Incidentally who is above the rabbis , whats the chain of command to the top in Judaism.

There isn't really a hierarchy like there is in the Christian church. Each synagogue is independent, for the want of a better word. There's no synod, for instance.

[Niamh.]

A female vicar took my husband's funeral service. She was wonderful, couldn't fault her at all. She made time with me to make it very personal and included everyone in the service, Christians, Jews, athiests... it was amazing how inclusive she made it. She was also very helpful and kind with my nieces and took the time to answer questions they had. Without disrespecting male vicars, I don't think a male would necessarily have handled it in the same way.

I can imagine it makes a huge difference when you're in that situation too :hug:

[Livia]

I can imagine it makes a huge difference when you're in that situation too :hug:

Yes, it did make a huge difference. It must be awful to have someone who's not really interested and understanding. I still see her sometimes, she's very normal and not at all "churchy". A really lovely women. It's a shame, like you say, she'll never rise up the ladder now because she's the kind of person who I think would make a difference.

[King Gizzard]

There isn't a hierarchy in every form of the church, just COE, Catholic etc

[Nedusa]

I think this is unnecessarily sexist, surely the gender of a person is irrelevant when it comes to being a servant or minister of The Lord ??

[Marcus.]

they are just evil

[Ninastar]

i know a female vicar and she's lovely. she was very supportive when my grandmother died

[thesheriff443]

religion!

[Kazanne]

religion!

It's not really religion though is it?,it's the bloody humans that are making the rules and cocking everything up as they do with most things.

[Marcus.]

It's not really religion though is it?,it's the bloody humans that are making the rules and cocking everything up as they do with most things.

yep it sexist people

[the truth]

A female vicar took my husband's funeral service. She was wonderful, couldn't fault her at all. She made time with me to make it very personal and included everyone in the service, Christians, Jews, athiests... it was amazing how inclusive she made it. She was also very helpful and kind with my nieces and took the time to answer questions they had. Without disrespecting male vicars, I don't think a male would necessarily have handled it in the same way.

Everyones an individual and everyone brings their own unique qualities to a situation. It is fair to say the service provided varies from vicar to vicar but I disagree in the blanket statement that a male would not necessarily handle it the same way. The problem in the UK is not that the male vicars lack compassion or empathy or the oft repeated lie that men dont show emotion. The problem is the wrongful perception that men are somehow less capable of expressing themselves. This in itself is a prejudgement and a wrongful perception of all men, its a type of narrow minded discrimination that doesnt open people up to the qualities males do bring. Its sad. Its not accepted to prejudge any other grpoup of people, so it shouldnt be with men either. were all complex multi faceted people with loads of influences, characteristics and unique traits....The only major difference Id say beyond the biological is the fact society is more accomodating and accepting of women than men. we prejudge men far too much, we even write books that pigeon hole and label them all and write tule books on how to treat them. these books are utter rubbish, treat men as individuals just as all other groups wish to be treated

[Jesus.]

Shouldn't women CofE attendees be making jam in middle class suburbia, anyway?

Misogynistic organisation protects men in the name of god. It's hardly a brand new concept, that definitely hasn't been happening since the ignorant started having books dictated to them by men on clouds.

[joeysteele]

I don't really care much as to the Churches and their ways. However, since Women are allowed to be Priests, the same opportunity to rise up the hierarchy of the Church should be available to them.

There is a lot wrong with the Christian churches in particular,across the board, not just on the issues of Women becoming Priests or Bishops.
Ironically I have found when talking about this to others, that it is actually Women who don't want Women Bishops rather than the men.
Personally,I think the Churches,both Cof E and RC need their houses putting in order with urgency on many other issues than tearing themselves apart as to the issue of Women Bishops and Priests.

[Jesus.]

It's not really religion though is it?,it's the bloody humans that are making the rules and cocking everything up as they do with most things.

Religion is created by man, so man and religion are inseparable bedfellows.

[the truth]

Religion is created by man, so man and religion are inseparable bedfellows.

No all religions are different. Christianity was created by Christ. Also women have always been involved in all religions since their inception. half the congregations are women too.

[the truth]

I don't really care much as to the Churches and their ways. However, since Women are allowed to be Priests, the same opportunity to rise up the hierarchy of the Church should be available to them.

There is a lot wrong with the Christian churches in particular,across the board, not just on the issues of Women becoming Priests or Bishops.
Ironically I have found when talking about this to others, that it is actually Women who don't want Women Bishops rather than the men.
Personally,I think the Churches,both Cof E and RC need their houses putting in order with urgency on many other issues than tearing themselves apart as to the issue of Women Bishops and Priests.

They dont change everything on a whim....Every organization on planet earth is riddled with corruption, everything, the police, insurance companies, parliaments, banks, the military. but how many of these organizations give back as miuch as the Christian churches? People who hate Christianity decide to dwell entirely on the 1% of corrupt people and choose to ignore the 99% of good and the great they do for the world. I find that cynical attitude pathetic. Christianity is the bedrock upon which we built western democracies

[Livia]

Everyones an individual and everyone brings their own unique qualities to a situation. It is fair to say the service provided varies from vicar to vicar but I disagree in the blanket statement that a male would not necessarily handle it the same way. The problem in the UK is not that the male vicars lack compassion or empathy or the oft repeated lie that men dont show emotion. The problem is the wrongful perception that men are somehow less capable of expressing themselves. This in itself is a prejudgement and a wrongful perception of all men, its a type of narrow minded discrimination that doesnt open people up to the qualities males do bring. Its sad. Its not accepted to prejudge any other grpoup of people, so it shouldnt be with men either. were all complex multi faceted people with loads of influences, characteristics and unique traits....The only major difference Id say beyond the biological is the fact society is more accomodating and accepting of women than men. we prejudge men far too much, we even write books that pigeon hole and label them all and write tule books on how to treat them. these books are utter rubbish, treat men as individuals just as all other groups wish to be treated

What I said was "Without disrespecting male vicars, I don't think a male would necessarily have handled it in the same way". To take from that that I have prejudged all men is rather a blanket statement from you. I found it a soothing experience at a harrowing time to be able to deal with a woman and felt that in my personal situation she had some idea of what I was going through as a woman. That is not to say that I at all prejudge men. In fact, I have many male friends and very few female friends. I was talking about a personal experience. I really didn't need the lecture.

[joeysteele]

They dont change everything on a whim....Every organization on planet earth is riddled with corruption, everything, the police, insurance companies, parliaments, banks, the military. but how many of these organizations give back as miuch as the Christian churches? People who hate Christianity decide to dwell entirely on the 1% of corrupt people and choose to ignore the 99% of good and the great they do for the world. I find that cynical attitude pathetic. Christianity is the bedrock upon which we built western democracies

A lot of what you list, was true rather than is true today. I love the teaching as laid out in Christianity,if only it was really active though and from the hierarchies of the Churches claiming to be Christian.

I come from an RC background and have seen in my life more wrongs from those we are expected to look up to than rights.
Far from hating Christianity,I would love its teachings to be guidelines as to society, people would care a lot more for others needs if it was the case.

All over,from the example set by the leaders of the Churches,people are casting it all aside.
Off the topic a bit, however masses and services are being done away with through the week and even weekends due to vastly lower attendances but the Church leaders are not that bothered, people still contribute to the Church as in collections but now a great deal do it by direct debit payments,so don't feel the need to go to Church, this allows the Church to cut services and close the doors earlier and still have the funds rolling in.

I spend a lot of time at Hospitals with a friend who goes in regularly for treatment, I have to say,I have found the Women Priests far more amiable and willing to visit the wards generally, so for me they are equally as competent if not moreso as to doing the Christian thing.Therefore for me, they should have access to all avenues of progression in the Churches.

As to the RC church, well they haven't even got round to allowing Woment Priests yet never mind Bishops.

You are likely right that Christianity was the bedrock that Western democracies were partly built on but the message has been allowed to rapidly disappear and now, just about the last place you find compassion and tolerance, in the true sense, is in fact in the Churches themselves.

[the truth]

What I said was "Without disrespecting male vicars, I don't think a male would necessarily have handled it in the same way". To take from that that I have prejudged all men is rather a blanket statement from you. I found it a soothing experience at a harrowing time to be able to deal with a woman and felt that in my personal situation she had some idea of what I was going through as a woman. That is not to say that I at all prejudge men. In fact, I have many male friends and very few female friends. I was talking about a personal experience. I really didn't need the lecture.

Im glad you got what you needed thats all good. I just think your line about men was totally unnecessary

[the truth]

A lot of what you list, was true rather than is true today. I love the teaching as laid out in Christianity,if only it was really active though and from the hierarchies of the Churches claiming to be Christian.

I come from an RC background and have seen in my life more wrongs from those we are expected to look up to than rights.
Far from hating Christianity,I would love its teachings to be guidelines as to society, people would care a lot more for others needs if it was the case.

All over,from the example set by the leaders of the Churches,people are casting it all aside.
Off the topic a bit, however masses and services are being done away with through the week and even weekends due to vastly lower attendances but the Church leaders are not that bothered, people still contribute to the Church as in collections but now a great deal do it by direct debit payments,so don't feel the need to go to Church, this allows the Church to cut services and close the doors earlier and still have the funds rolling in.

I spend a lot of time at Hospitals with a friend who goes in regularly for treatment, I have to say,I have found the Women Priests far more amiable and willing to visit the wards generally, so for me they are equally as competent if not moreso as to doing the Christian thing.Therefore for me, they should have access to all avenues of progression in the Churches.

As to the RC church, well they haven't even got round to allowing Woment Priests yet never mind Bishops.

You are likely right that Christianity was the bedrock that Western democracies were partly built on but the message has been allowed to rapidly disappear and now, just about the last place you find compassion and tolerance, in the true sense, is in fact in the Churches themselves.

What happens in the churches is les simportant than waht happens outside the Churches and within the hearts and minds of the people

[joeysteele]

What happens in the churches is les simportant than waht happens outside the Churches and within the hearts and minds of the people

I have no disagreement whatsoever with you as to that.

[Livia]

Im glad you got what you needed thats all good. I just think your line about men was totally unnecessary

You're allowed that opinion.

[Marsh.]

Is it just me or do all religion threads on this forum end up going round in the same circle every time?

Just an observation.

[King Gizzard]

Is it just me or do all religion threads on this forum end up going round in the same circle every time?

Just an observation.

...exactly what happens every time

[arista]

A woman in the COE who Voted
for No women Bishops
is on Ch5News 6:30PM

She spoke on Radio 5
saying she wanted keep the Unity in the COE.



Life In The City.

[arista]

A Debate is on BBC1 now


A women said she is Shocked!

[InOne]

Maybe the Women will realise this is why religion is quite idiotic

[arista]

Maybe the Women will realise this is why religion is quite idiotic


Yes


Womem are not Level with Men



Get used to it



its a Great Live debate on BBC1 now

[Livia]

Yes


Womem are not Level with Men



Get used to it



its a Great Live debate on BBC1 now

Any woman who says she wants to be equal to a man has no ambition.

[Jesus.]

It's the equivalent of a pay cut.

[Kizzy]

I don't want to get into a big debate....
So can I just say that I wouldn't wipe my bottom with a king james bible.....thankyou.

[Irene Pearson]

If a woman has the calling to progress in the church I can't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed. Women make up a third of the clergy of the Church of England after all.

No I think this is discrimination against Christians!!!!!!

[InOne]

No I think this is discrimination against Christians!!!!!!

Care to elaborate? ;)

[Irene Pearson]

See mine and Livia's discussion on C of E not allowing gay marriage.

[InOne]

Can't you just explain here? Can't be bothered looking...

[Irene Pearson]

I Can't be bothered explaining. All way too long winded. Getting over Novo Virus and am wiped out

[Livia]

See mine and Livia's discussion on C of E not allowing gay marriage.

I never said gay marriage shouldn't be allowed. I said that you can't force one religion into it, and not force all religions into it or it would be discrimination. Although that is a separate matter, isn't it.

[Irene Pearson]

I never said gay marriage shouldn't be allowed. I said that you can't force one religion into it, and not force all religions into it or it would be discrimination. Although that is a separate matter, isn't it.

And I didn't say you said Gay Marriage should not be allowed. I was referring to the thread. But hey C of E should allow women Bishops. MMM.

[Livia]

And I didn't say you said Gay Marriage should not be allowed. I was referring to the thread. But hey C of E should allow women Bishops. MMM.

What are you talking about?

[Irene Pearson]

What are you talking about?

Read your own posts on this subject. That's what I am talking about.

[Livia]

Read your own posts on this subject. That's what I am talking about.

I know what I said. I stand by what I said. I don't agree with you either... but I don't intend to follow you around flogging the point to the ground.

[Irene Pearson]

I know what I said. I stand by what I said. I don't agree with you either... but I don't intend to follow you around flogging the point to the ground.

Why change the habit of a life time. At least try to be consistent in your staunch viewpoint

[Livia]

Why change the habit of a life time. At least try to be consistent in your staunch viewpoint

For someone with only 130 posts, you seem to know a lot about my habits of a lifetime.

[Irene Pearson]

For someone with only 130 posts, you seem to know a lot about my habits of a lifetime.

Evading the issue again. Are you always right?

[Livia]

Evading the issue again. Are you always right?

No, I'm not evading the issue. I would like to know how you think that you know my "habits of a lifetime" after your... let me see... 138 posts. And no, I'm not always right. But I am always entitled to my opinion.

[Irene Pearson]

No, I'm not evading the issue. I would like to know how you think that you know my "habits of a lifetime" after your... let me see... 138 posts. And no, I'm not always right. But I am always entitled to my opinion.

Well you certainly are not a pussycat on this forum. Do you morph into another character here. And I am also entitled to my opinion without name calling from you. Very childish. Just dished it back to you when I'd had enough. Reading your posts you do seem to try to diminish your adversaries with sweeping injudicious false assumptions and downright immature rudeness. Another trait I have noticed in people who profess not to suffer fools is that they assume that dishing negativity out to others is fine but rarely can they take any back. To take people for fools makes one very foolish indeed.

[InOne]

Can we ban this Irene troll before Christmas please. It's all getting very silly now x

It clear she knows the forum and some of us on here. At least do an IP check mods.

[Irene Pearson]

No, I'm not evading the issue. I would like to know how you think that you know my "habits of a lifetime" after your... let me see... 138 posts. And no, I'm not always right. But I am always entitled to my opinion.

Oh and by the way you ARE still prevaricating.

[Livia]

Well you certainly are not a pussycat on this forum. Do you morph into another character here. And I am also entitled to my opinion without name calling from you. Very childish. Just dished it back to you when I'd had enough. Reading your posts you do seem to try to diminish your adversaries with sweeping injudicious false assumptions and downright immature rudeness. Another trait I have noticed in people who profess not to suffer fools is that they assume that dishing negativity out to others is fine but rarely can they take any back. To take people for fools makes one very foolish indeed.

I don't take people for fools. I take fools for fools. I get on with the vast majority of people just fine, whether I agree with them or not. It's only the ones that come on to fight and argue that I have a problem with. Like you, for instance.

If you have a problem with the way I post and the things I say, like I said... take it up with the mods.

[Irene Pearson]

Can we ban this Irene troll before Christmas please. It's all getting very silly now x

It clear she knows the forum and some of us on here. At least do an IP check mods.

Scrooge once again I AM NOT A TROLL. I have put down repeatedly by Livia and have simply looked through some of her postings to find out if this is her modus operandi. I know as much about this forum as anyone would having been on it this length of time. Please tell me who the "some of us on here are" also. Are newcomers not allowed to question you old timers? IP check please.Just how insulting do you intend to be.

[Livia]

Oh and by the way you ARE still prevaricating.

Because I'm not prepared to feed the troll?

Incidentally, this is my last post to you.

[Irene Pearson]

Because I'm not prepared to feed the troll?

RUDE again.

[InOne]

Scrooge once again I AM NOT A TROLL. I have put down repeatedly by Livia and have simply looked through some of her postings to find out if this is her modus operandi. I know as much about this forum as anyone would having been on it this length of time. Please tell me who the "some of us on here are" also. Are newcomers not allowed to question you old timers? IP check please.Just how insulting do you intend to be.

If you can't handle debate then maybe forums aren't the place for you. You're nitpicking little things and trying to target Livia for some reason. You have a very weird obsession with her. Just because she smashes you all over serious debates doesn't mean she's putting you down. It just means you're rubbish at debating and are taking the huff.

[Irene Pearson]

If you can't handle debate then maybe forums aren't the place for you. You're nitpicking little things and trying to target Livia for some reason. You have a very weird obsession with her. Just because she smashes you all over serious debates doesn't mean she's putting you down. It just means you're rubbish at debating and are taking the huff.

I am not taking the huff I am defending myself and will not be browbeaten. I have not targeted Livia much the opposite. And she has certainly not smashed me over our debate.She has been determined to dismiss me and I am more than capable of debate with her thank you.Insults are not debate.

[InOne]

I am not taking the huff I am defending myself and will not be browbeaten. I have not targeted Livia much the opposite. And she has certainly not smashed me over our debate.She has been determined to dismiss me and I am more than capable of debate with her thank you.Insults are not debate.

You've not been insulted at all. The victim card will get you nowhere. And it's blatantly obvious you're not capable of debate with her.

[Irene Pearson]

You've not been insulted at all. The victim card will get you nowhere. And it's blatantly obvious you're not capable of debate with her.

Oh Scrooge I am really not playing the victim card. Livia would simply not answer the question I put to her as she had completely contradicted herself. Then the last half hour happened.