Sir Cyril Smith abuse claims investigation widens

[Omah]

Originally : Sir Cyril Smith: Former MP sexually abused boys, police say

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20516533

Sir Cyril Smith was a sex abuser of boys in the late 1960s, police have accepted.

The news comes as the Crown Prosecution Service admitted he should have been charged with the crimes more than 40 years ago.

In a statement, Greater Manchester Police said the boys "were victims of physical and sexual abuse" by the ex-Rochdale MP.

Sir Cyril was never charged despite investigations in 1970, 1998, and 1999.

A file compiled by Lancashire Constabulary in 1970, contained allegations made by eight men that they had been subjected to indecent assaults by Sir Cyril, when they were teenagers.

It was handed to the first Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), and contained statements that were very similar in nature, the CPS confirmed.

However, DPP Norman Skelhorn wrote to the Chief Constable of Lancashire on 19 March 1970 stating: "I do not consider that if proceedings for indecent assault were to be taken against Smith, there would be a reasonable prospect of conviction."

Nazir Afzal, chief prosecutor for the CPS in the North West has now accepted that this "way of thinking bears little resemblance to how such cases are assessed today".

"The decision made by the CPS in 1970 would not be made today," he admitted.

Who'd have thought ..... :rolleyes:

[Marcus.]

Yeah i know

[Kizzy]

Is there something in the water in rochdale?....

[Marcus.]

Is there something in the water in rochdale?....

Yeah there could be

[Omah]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237627/Cyril-Smith-child-abuse-Chilling-claims-Smith-child-abuse-scandal-concealed-avoid-crisis-Westminster.html#ixzz2DRvcI7FP

Raised by his mother, along with a brother and sister, in a two-room house, Cyril Smith had, apart from a brief spell working for the tax office, been involved in local politics for much of his life.

In 1962, aged 34, he began taking a keen interest in youth matters in Rochdale — sitting on committees in charge of the Rochdale Youth Theatre, the Rochdale Youth Orchestra, the Youth Employment Committee, as well as the governorship of 29 local schools.

As well as these duties, Smith also directed his energies into setting up a hostel for boys from deprived families in Rochdale, approaching poor parents and explaining that their child would be better off in care.

Funded with council cash, as well as donations from prominent businessmen and the local Rotary club, Cambridge House opened in 1962. Crucially, Smith kept his own set of keys for the hostel, meaning that he could come and go as he pleased.

Barry Fitton was a 15-year-old resident when he first had the misfortune to encounter Smith. Fitton was placed in the home because he was from a disadvantaged background — the son of a single mother — and had problems at school.

‘Everybody knew Cyril Smith,’ he told me. ‘He was very famous in Rochdale — he was very involved in things concerning young kids, boys’ clubs and things like that.’

Fitton says he was sexually abused a number of times by Smith. ‘I was embarrassed, of course,’ he says. ‘I felt this was not right, but what could I do? He was an authority figure and I had to do what he said. He was such an important guy, and I was 15 and scared to death.’

Once, he was told he was to have a medical examination at Cambridge House. ‘I thought it would be a doctor, but it was Cyril Smith. He told me to take my pants down and he started to fondle me. I thought it was odd and not right, but as far as I was concerned, he was completely powerful.’

Other victims have also come forward, describing almost identical abuse, as well as ‘spanking’ sessions when the gargantuan Smith would arrive to discipline boys accused of breaking rules — and then ‘comfort’ them after physically abusing them. When he discovered that Barry Fitton had gone one day to hang around in Manchester, Smith summoned him to his office at the home for punishment, ordering the teenager to take his trousers down and bend over his knee. He then hit the boy.

‘He was big and heavy. You’ll have seen the size of his hands in pictures. Imagine how that would feel slapping you around,’ added Mr Fitton, now in his mid-60s and living in Amsterdam. ‘I was crying and he said “oh, there, there” and he stroked my bottom and fondled my buttocks.’

:eek:

Now, more than three decades later, the same claims about Big Cyril are finally being made at the highest level. With fresh impetus to uncover sexual abuse following the Savile scandal, police this week revealed that they have launched an investigation into the allegations.

This development came after Simon Danczuk, the Labour MP for Rochdale, raised the matter in the House of Commons after victims contacted him to tell their stories. He described Smith as a ‘29st bully who imposed himself on his victims, leaving them humiliated, terrified and reduced to quivering wrecks’.

If what the MP says is true, why were Smith’s victims ignored for so long? Did someone cover up for Smith, and if so, could he have been protected by figures in the government of the day?

The question we must now consider is this: was Smith’s depravity indeed known about at the very highest levels of the Establishment, including the security services — and the plight of his victims ignored on the grounds of ‘political expediency’ at a time when he was key to a weak Labour government’s relationship with the Liberals?

:suspect:

[Marcus.]

Rochdale not looking like and good place

[arista]

Yes Dead Fat Evil Lib

Protected by MI5
due to Elections
and possible Labour - Lib Pact.

[joeysteele]

I never really liked this man,very sad for his victims though.

[the truth]

shouldnt people be more sympathtic for this alleged pervert? Didnt nature just make him this way? in which case was he powerless to act on his sexual desires?

[Nedusa]

shouldnt people be more sympathtic for this alleged pervert? Didnt nature just make him this way? in which case was he powerless to act on his sexual desires?

That is certainly a possibility , however regardless of the reasons these sorts of crimes are committed the perpetrators must be kept away from the public . Either locked up in prisons or secure hospitals until medical science can find the causes of their behaviour ( if it exists).

[Jesus.]

shouldnt people be more sympathtic for this alleged pervert? Didnt nature just make him this way? in which case was he powerless to act on his sexual desires?

You really post some bizarre stuff. Sexuality is decided by our genes, so he was powerless to choose who he was attracted to. However, he acted his fantasies out, and that is both morally and legally wrong, which contravenes laws we have in this country to protect children.

In your world, then god creates perverts to harm children for the purpose of free will. Maybe you would prefer Lots example, who offers up his virgin daughters to be gang raped in order to protect a couple of house guests?

[Kizzy]

shouldnt people be more sympathtic for this alleged pervert? Didnt nature just make him this way? in which case was he powerless to act on his sexual desires?

I'm not sure what point if any you are trying to make here...
As far as I know in an ordered society most are socialized to know that being a predatory abuser of minors, whilst using your power and status to inflict physical punishments on vulnerable individuals is wrong....
In cases such as these the crime itself is not the only injustice, the fact that there were those compliant, knowing that it took place that is almost as shocking.

[the truth]

You really post some bizarre stuff. Sexuality is decided by our genes, so he was powerless to choose who he was attracted to. However, he acted his fantasies out, and that is both morally and legally wrong, which contravenes laws we have in this country to protect children.

In your world, then god creates perverts to harm children for the purpose of free will. Maybe you would prefer Lots example, who offers up his virgin daughters to be gang raped in order to protect a couple of house guests?

He allegedly did but clearly the police failed hopelessly yet again to act and carry out a proper investigation so all we are left with is heresay 30 years later. As for laws, I notice that laws are contravened by other people such as the labour council that broke civil laws to break up that foster family? Also there are laws of slander so when this witch hunt continues we hear more people wrongfully named by militant liberals.

As for your last paragraph, thats the most disgusting vile Ive ever read in my life:nono:. I shall duly report it. Its not only sick and perverted but its 100% false. Any rapists should be investigated properly, the police should do their job properly. If found guilty they should be locked away for a very long time, in some cases for life. However to name shame and destroy people before theyve had a fair hearing is not only wrong it also ruins any chance of a fair trial.

[the truth]

I'm not sure what point if any you are trying to make here...
As far as I know in an ordered society most are socialized to know that being a predatory abuser of minors, whilst using your power and status to inflict physical punishments on vulnerable individuals is wrong....
In cases such as these the crime itself is not the only injustice, the fact that there were those compliant, knowing that it took place that is almost as shocking.

yes indeed it is. But these institutions are always riddled with corruption and endless cover ups. The man was clearly sick and the police clearly failed to do their job in bringing him to book

[Jake.]

:shocked: ****ing disgusting!

[Jake.]

shouldnt people be more sympathtic for this alleged pervert? Didnt nature just make him this way? in which case was he powerless to act on his sexual desires?

That really is not a valid point what so ever. Anyone can have emotions, but it is his/her choice to act apon them. That's like saying if a baby of 4 months was raped (which apparently did happen around this area) saying about the man 'aww no I have some sympathy for the pedophile, I mean he couldn't stop himself from doing it'

[Jesus.]

He allegedly did but clearly the police failed hopelessly yet again to act and carry out a proper investigation so all we are left with is heresay 30 years later. As for laws, I notice that laws are contravened by other people such as the labour council that broke civil laws to break up that foster family? Also there are laws of slander so when this witch hunt continues we hear more people wrongfully named by militant liberals.

As for your last paragraph, thats the most disgusting vile Ive ever read in my life:nono:. I shall duly report it. Its not only sick and perverted but its 100% false. Any rapists should be investigated properly, the police should do their job properly. If found guilty they should be locked away for a very long time, in some cases for life. However to name shame and destroy people before theyve had a fair hearing is not only wrong it also ruins any chance of a fair trial.

Report me for what? Providing accurate information from th bible?

Lot offered his 2 daughters to be gang raped. Read your own holy book. Moses commanded his army to keep all virgins for themselves after conquests.

Report me all you like, but my higher education is history and history of religion, so I pretty much guarantee, that my knowledge of your holy book is more in depth to yours. Argue any points that you wish, and point out my innacuracies, but please don't cry foul play when someone calls out your insanity.

[Jake.]

He allegedly did but clearly the police failed hopelessly yet again to act and carry out a proper investigation so all we are left with is heresay 30 years later. As for laws, I notice that laws are contravened by other people such as the labour council that broke civil laws to break up that foster family? Also there are laws of slander so when this witch hunt continues we hear more people wrongfully named by militant liberals.

As for your last paragraph, thats the most disgusting vile Ive ever read in my life:nono:. I shall duly report it. Its not only sick and perverted but its 100% false. Any rapists should be investigated properly, the police should do their job properly. If found guilty they should be locked away for a very long time, in some cases for life. However to name shame and destroy people before theyve had a fair hearing is not only wrong it also ruins any chance of a fair trial.

Oh, I thought that we should see things from their point of view and show empathy?

[the truth]

You really post some bizarre stuff. Sexuality is decided by our genes, so he was powerless to choose who he was attracted to. However, he acted his fantasies out, and that is both morally and legally wrong, which contravenes laws we have in this country to protect children.

In your world, then god creates perverts to harm children for the purpose of free will. Maybe you would prefer Lots example, who offers up his virgin daughters to be gang raped in order to protect a couple of house guests?

At what point did I say I agreed with this heinous example? I didnt. so quit trying to misrepreent me with this filth.

[the truth]

Oh, I thought that we should see things from their point of view and show empathy?

I merely asked the question, should we try and understand it? clearly its illegal and depraved and so on. But the militant left run the risk of contradicting on this matter as they try to claim we are unable to control our desires whether it be for drugs or booze or whatever. I dont happen to believe that.... if we take the militant lefts liberal view, we have no control over our desires than how can we be guilty of anything as were powerless to stop it arent we?

[Jesus.]

At what point did I say I agreed with this heinous example? I didnt. so quit trying to misrepreent me with this filth.

Please point out where I said you agreed with it?

I said it's in the bible, and it is.

You were obviously trying to make a smart-arsed point about it being the fault of nature.

I highlighted both the hypocrisy and absurdity of your post.

[the truth]

Please point out where I said you agreed with it?

I said it's in the bible, and it is.

You were obviously trying to make a smart-arsed point about it being the fault of nature.

I highlighted both the hypocrisy and absurdity of your post.

nice language, sort of exposes you. You didnt do anything of the kind. secondly thats your interpretation of that text that I dont think is accurate and even if it was I reject any form of rape. as should you. You tried to imply that I supported that filth about rape. shame on you.

[Jesus.]

nice language, sort of exposes you. You didnt do anything of the kind. secondly thats your interpretation of that text that I dont think is accurate and even if it was I reject any form of rape. as should you. You tried to imply that I supported that filth about rape. shame on you.

Wow - what bizarre ramblings, and not for the first time from you, either.

It's not my interpretation of that text, it's the only interpretation that can be gleamed from it. Unless of course, you have a vested interest in believing the bible is begat, begat, begat, begat, Jesus......Da daaaaaaaaaaaa.

In order for you to believe in the holiness of the Abrahamic religion/s, then you need to be aware of how your prophets acted, and the things they did. Moses loved him some rape and slavery. Do you believe Moses was a prophet from god, and was sent to lead the Jews out of Egypt?

If so, why do you believe that part of the book, but not the part where he does things that aren't very nice?

There is no shame on me, at all. I can reject rape at face value, and I don't have to have any admiration for any rapist from history. You on the other hand.....................

[the truth]

Wow - what bizarre ramblings, and not for the first time from you, either.

It's not my interpretation of that text, it's the only interpretation that can be gleamed from it. Unless of course, you have a vested interest in believing the bible is begat, begat, begat, begat, Jesus......Da daaaaaaaaaaaa.

In order for you to believe in the holiness of the Abrahamic religion/s, then you need to be aware of how your prophets acted, and the things they did. Moses loved him some rape and slavery. Do you believe Moses was a prophet from god, and was sent to lead the Jews out of Egypt?

If so, why do you believe that part of the book, but not the part where he does things that aren't very nice?

There is no shame on me, at all. I can reject rape at face value, and I don't have to have any admiration for any rapist from history. You on the other hand.....................

on the other hand what?

[Jake.]

I merely asked the question, should we try and understand it? clearly its illegal and depraved and so on. But the militant left run the risk of contradicting on this matter as they try to claim we are unable to control our desires whether it be for drugs or booze or whatever. I dont happen to believe that.... if we take the militant lefts liberal view, we have no control over our desires than how can we be guilty of anything as were powerless to stop it arent we?

It's debatable whether we are in control over what we think (although I think it's bull**** because you have to be pretty sick for 13 year old boys in that sense to pop into your mind in the first place). However, as humans, we were born with choice. If, for instance this bloke done what he done, that was his choice and therefore he is disgusting, no matter what way you look at it.

[Kizzy]

As it was so it shall be....children snatched from loving homes and placed in institutions where they are vulnerable and at risk of being groomed and violated...
Rochdale has a lot to answer for, which begs the question why do they keep making the same mistakes over and over?.....

[joeysteele]

I don't see anyone as sick who physically or sexually abuses Children,other than having a sick disrespect for decency.
When these crimes were reported,the Children for their own behaviour and status were not likely to be believed.
As the Police said, with the new guidelines and the changes as to reporting crimes like this, the Children would now be believed and more serious investigations would take place.
They added that under these new changes, Smith would have been charged and prosecuted.

Smith wasn't 'ill sick', he had another term of sickness that was really likely vile since all that has come out now is believed to show.
Whatever his sort of sickness was, it never stopped him communicating well enough, winning elections to Parliament and lecturing many others as to their behaviour.

Sick he was, but not medically sick, just another sexual predator likely as to vulnerable young Boys and that to me is indefensible.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20568253

There is little doubt that former Rochdale MP Sir Cyril Smith raped some of his victims, the town's current MP has claimed.

Labour MP Simon Danczuk said the allegations of rape had been made by people who attended Knowl View.

The council-run residential school closed down in 1992.

Mr Danczuk said: "We now know from other victims (of Cambridge House) that indecent assault is what he would have been prosecuted with but his abuse went on from there.

"There is no doubt about it from the witnesses that have come forward that rape would have been included in the allegations against him, absolutely.

"That is what is alleged by people who were at Knowl View, which is a special school within Rochdale local authority area, and that is where it is alleged - and it is openly out there - that he raped children."


May he burn in hell ..... :mad:

[Omah]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/30/cyril-smith-rumours-liberal-party

The former Liberal party leader, Lord Steel, heard rumours that Cyril Smith used to deliver punishment beatings to boys, but the party did not investigate the claims.

Steel said a lack of substantive complaints meant the party leadership did not look into Smith's involvement in corporal punishment, which was understood to have taken place when he was a councillor in Rochdale.

The admission will add to widening concern at institutional responses to allegations of abuse against the MP who died in 2010. This week Greater Manchester police acknowledged that "young boys were victims of physical and sexual abuse committed by Smith". Three files of evidence were passed to prosecutors but no charges were brought. The first 80-page file on Smith compiled in 1970 contained allegations from eight men that they were abused as teenagers by Smith on the pretexts of either a medical examination or punishment for misbehaviour.

"All I can recall was rumour surrounding his previous behaviour relating to corporal punishment of boys, but we received no substantive complaints on which to make inquiries," Steel told the Guardian. "The suggestion related to the 60s when Smith was not an MP and not even a member of our party. He had reportedly been investigated at the time, so what reason would I have had to try an investigation?"

Corporal punishment was banned in state-funded schools in 1987. In the late 1960s and early 70s when Smith was a prominent and powerful figure in Rochdale it has been reported that some people in the town used to send their unruly children to Smith's home on Emma Street to be chastised.

"chastised" ..... :eek:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20645148

A search of historical files has found allegations of obscene publications and bribery relating to Sir Cyril Smith, the Crown Prosecution Service has said.

The CPS started the search following an admission that the late Liberal MP for Rochdale should have been prosecuted for abusing young boys in the 1960s.

A spokesman said two police referrals had been found in a search of the Director of Public Prosecutions' files.

No charges were ever brought against Sir Cyril, who died in 2010.

The CPS spokesman said a search of documents from the DPP's office, which was responsible for bringing prosecutions until 1986, had found one referral made in the early 1970s and one from the early 1980s.

He said the former was "over an allegation or allegations relating to indecent obscene publications" and the latter "over a claim or claims relating to the Public Bodies Corrupt Practices Act 1889".

The 1889 act, which was repealed when the Bribery Act 2010 came into effect, outlawed the bribery of a member, officer or a servant of a public body.

The spokesman said the CPS could not determine the extent of either of the allegations and what, if any, action was taken.

Are we talking about "backhanders" ..... :conf:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22603419

Ten people are being investigated over historical allegations of sexual abuse at a residential school, where it was claimed Sir Cyril Smith abused boys.

Greater Manchester Police said it was investigating the suspects over claims of sexual or physical abuse carried out at the Knowl View school in Rochdale.

Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk said he had asked police to re-examine the case after "a number of victims came to see me and raise concerns".

He urged anyone involved in abuse to confess "so that Rochdale and everyone who has been abused can move on".

Mr Danczuk said: "There are few crimes as bad as robbing children of their childhood. We can't underestimate the impact abuse has on their lives."

:idc: