Brain tumour boy...treatment ruling..mum loses legal fight...

[Ammi]

A nationwide hunt is under way after a mother and her "seriously ill" seven-year-old son, who is in need of cancer treatment, are thought to have disappeared.

Sally Roberts, also known as Sally Leese, and her son Neon, are thought to have left their home town of Tiverton, Devon, on December 3.

Devon and Cornwall Police launched an urgent appeal after growing concern for the health of the youngster, who has recently undergone surgery for a brain tumour.

Doctors treating him said he is in need of urgent medical attention, a spokesman for the force said. It is believed his mother is opposed to further treatment and has disappeared with him

Their whereabouts is currently unknown, but police are asking any members of the public who may have seen them or know where they are to come forward

Assistant chief constable Chris Boarland said: "Neon is seriously ill and we have huge concern for his welfare. He is currently subject to a Family Court order and I would ask his mother to think about her son's welfare and contact police and medical services as soon as possible.

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/national/news/10090925.Hunt_for_missing_brain_tumour_boy/


...I don't understand this...many parents of terminally ill children never give up hope, no matter how hopeless the prognosis.....yet this mother is denying her child the threatment he needs....

[Benjamin]

Maybe the treatment is making him worse and she cannot bear to see her son going through such pain? I know it seems irrational, but to see your son like that may make you do silly things as I imagine it plays with you emotionally and mentally.

[Ammi]

..I don't think he started the treatment yet Ben...I'll check that..but I think he just had the tumour removed and treatment hadn't started yet....

[Ammi]

..it's just been on BBC news that he was found last night...mum doesn't want him to have radiation therapy....

[Cherie]

This is not an easy one to sit in judgement on. The news story is very black and white. The chances of him surviving may be slim, maybe she wants him to have quality of life rather than months of a treatment that is worse than the disease. At 7 he will be aware of what is happening and what is going to happen maybe he is so terrified she feels the only way they can both cope is not to put them through it. Maybe she is so terrified she cant face up to putting him through it. Maybe on reflection she will change her mind....there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to how any parent will react to the news that their child has a potentially terminal disease.

[Ammi]

..I understand what you're saying Cherie...apparantly there is a court case battle as to whether he should have the radiation therapy....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-20619096

[Jake.]

Although he should get every bit of treatment, I feel for the mother in some respects. She is probably so scared about her young-un going through this, it can't be easy for any parent to be told that their kid has a brain tumor.

[Ammi]

..no it can't be ..... obviously we don't know his prognosis or what the results of his treatment would mean...but I hope this is about him and not some sort of feud between the parents...it has been known to happen....

[Cherie]

Mrs Roberts is involved in a court case with an NHS trust and council officials over whether Neon should have radiotherapy treatment.



What does that mean, there is no mention of a partner, the way I read it is that the hospital have taken her to court, does that happen?:conf:

[Ammi]

..I think I put the wrong link in Cherie..this is the one that mentions dad...

..I hadn't looked at that one, so I assumed the court battle was between the parents...I don't know..it obviously does happen...I haven't heard of a case before, but I'm sure there must be some.....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/neon-roberts-missing-police-hunt-1475342

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/06/article-2243542-165E17F3000005DC-219_636x483.jpg


Mother who ran away with seven-year-old son to stop his life-saving cancer treatment is found with him 160 miles from where they were last seen

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2243542/Neon-Luca-Roberts-Mother-ran-away-seven-year-old-son-stop-having-life-saving-cancer-treatment-tracked-Sussex.html#ixzz2EGtq0hSP


He is currently at the centre of a court battle between his parents over whether he should have radiotherapy for the tumour

[Vicky.]

...I don't understand this...many parents of terminally ill children never give up hope, no matter how hopeless the prognosis.....yet this mother is denying her child the threatment he needs....

I dunno, maybe shes thinking its better to give him a good few months before he goes than more months of surgery and such which might not even work.

I'm not sure if I would think that way about my child, but I know for sure if I had a terminal illness and treatment was making me/was likely to make me ill I would rather take my chances and live whats left of my life to the fullest, than be hooked up to machines and such that might make no difference anyway, and ultimately die in a hospital bed.

[Ammi]

..thanks Arista..who the court battle was between was a bit confusing before..it seemed to be reported differently on different sites....

[Ammi]

I dunno, maybe shes thinking its better to give him a good few months before he goes than more months of surgery and such which might not even work.

I'm not sure if I would think that way about my child, but I know for sure if I had a terminal illness and treatment was making me ill I would rather take my chances and live whats left of my life to the fullest, than be hooked up to machines and such that might make no difference anyway, and ultimately die in a hospital bed.

..no, I do understand Vicky..and if it was myself, I'd feel the same..I haven't known loads of people who have had children with cancer, so it's not that I have lots of knowledge or anything...but the few I have known...they would do anything to try to prolong the lifespan..and also they haven't ever accepted to prognosis if it was terminal...

..but as Cherie said...everyone thinks differently...I just hope the 'court battle' is about the little guy and not something between the parents....

..EDIT:...their motivations I mean....

[Vanessa]

Awwww! Poor kid. I hope he'll be ok. :sad::bawling:

[Benjamin]

I hate the fact the fact one of the articles say she is denying him 'life saving' treatment. It's not guaranteed at all and makes her out to be a bad mother, when in fact the risks of this treatment will rapidly deteriorate this boys health and if he then passes away his last months alive have been torture, hospitals and a pretty horrible experience. To me she comes across as scared that his last months alive will be like this, and wants him to have at least some normality back in his life.

[arista]

..thanks Arista..who the court battle was between was a bit confusing before..it seemed to be reported differently on different sites....



Due to

"Mrs Roberts, originally from New Zealand and a keen believer in homeopathic medicine."

[arista]

I hate the fact the fact one of the articles say she is denying him 'life saving' treatment. It's not guaranteed at all and makes her out to be a bad mother, when in fact the risks of this treatment will rapidly deteriorate this boys health and if he then passes away his last months alive have been torture, hospitals and a pretty horrible experience. To me she comes across as scared that his last months alive will be like this, and wants him to have at least some normality back in his life.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/06/article-2243542-165DB804000005DC-996_634x637.jpg
the NZ Mother

[Benjamin]

Thanks for the picture Arista. Not that it makes any difference to my opinion, or if it was meant to?

If she believes in homeopathic medicine then that is her belief, obviously the father feels differently and thinks the opposite, but to force a child into treatment that has no guarantees and will make him feel ill, weak, and constantly in hospital is wrong, regardless of what anyone says.

[arista]

Thanks for the picture Arista. Not that it makes any difference to my opinion, or if it was meant to?

If she believes in homeopathic medicine then that is her belief, obviously the father feels differently and thinks the opposite, but to force a child into treatment that has no guarantees and will make him feel ill, weak, and constantly in hospital is wrong, regardless of what anyone says.


Yes but it will not work for this
Everyone knows that.

[Kizzy]

What a heartbreaking decision to make. I agree with cherie and vicky in their view, it's almost impossible to imagine having to face that sort of decision.
I couldn't imagine what I would do in those circumstances.

[Cherie]

Due to

"Mrs Roberts, originally from New Zealand and a keen believer in homeopathic medicine."

with all due respect to the advances in the fight against cancer. the power of the mind ie. a positive attitude and a diet high in vegetable juice ...super foods has been found to prolong to the iife of people with cancer. Radiotherapy has extremely severe side effects as well documented. I can see both sides of the argument but unless the child as our own I don't really think we can judge what is best for him.

[Benjamin]

Yes but it will not work for this
Everyone knows that.

Actually that is not true as Cherie has just pointed out, and even if not for that there is no guarantee that radiotherapy will work, and it will put the boy through hell. Courts should not be allowed to force someone to put their child through that and I hope they don't.

[Vanessa]

Actually that is not true as Cherie has just pointed out, and even if not for that there is no guarantee that radiotherapy will work, and it will put the boy through hell. Courts should not be allowed to force someone to put their child through that and I hope they don't.

But radiotherapy could save his life.

[Kizzy]

It could be the position of the tumor, the brain is very delicate wouldn't that make radiation therapy so much more risky?

[Cherie]

Just been reading that children can have permanent side effects from radiotherapy treatment because their nervous system is still developing. Physical problems with radiotherapy following the removal of a brain tumour, can include limb weakness, poor balance and uncontrollable shaking, a quarter will have fits or blackouts and a third will have headaches or migraine.

[arista]

Today the Mother goes to Court

Ref: Daybreak ITV1HD

[Cherie]

I really wouldn't like to be the Judge ruling on this one. A difficult decision ahead and one parent will be left bitterly upset.

[Livia]

If the judge thinks that doctors can save, or at least prolong, the life of the child, then his decision will be made quite quickly, I think. I'm really surprised when a hospital has to get a court order to save a child because of their parents' strange beliefs. Many times Jehovah Witnesses refuse blood or organs that could save their child's life and a court has to take the decision out of their hands. In this case, the mother believes in homeopathy - a complementary medicine that did nothing, over the thousands of years it's been in existence, to do away with smallpox, rubella, measles... a whole host of diseases easily curable or preventable now. Homeopathy was around when the survival rate from childbirth was abysmal. Homeopathy was around before penicillin was discovered and people could die from an infected abrasion. And yet somehow, magically, this woman believes it will save her son from his brain tumour? It makes no sense to me.

[Jesus.]

If the judge thinks that doctors can save, or at least prolong, the life of the child, then his decision will be made quite quickly, I think. I'm really surprised when a hospital has to get a court order to save a child because of their parents' strange beliefs. Many times Jehovah Witnesses refuse blood or organs that could save their child's life and a court has to take the decision out of their hands. In this case, the mother believes in homeopathy - a complementary medicine that did nothing, over the thousands of years it's been in existence, to do away with smallpox, rubella, measles... a whole host of diseases easily curable or preventable now. Homeopathy was around when the survival rate from childbirth was abysmal. Homeopathy was around before penicillin was discovered and people could die from an infected abrasion. And yet somehow, magically, this woman believes it will save her son from his brain tumour? It makes no sense to me.

As Tim Minchin says - Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proved to work? Medicine.

[Niamh.]

If the judge thinks that doctors can save, or at least prolong, the life of the child, then his decision will be made quite quickly, I think. I'm really surprised when a hospital has to get a court order to save a child because of their parents' strange beliefs. Many times Jehovah Witnesses refuse blood or organs that could save their child's life and a court has to take the decision out of their hands. In this case, the mother believes in homeopathy - a complementary medicine that did nothing, over the thousands of years it's been in existence, to do away with smallpox, rubella, measles... a whole host of diseases easily curable or preventable now. Homeopathy was around when the survival rate from childbirth was abysmal. Homeopathy was around before penicillin was discovered and people could die from an infected abrasion. And yet somehow, magically, this woman believes it will save her son from his brain tumour? It makes no sense to me.

It's crazy. I just can't understand how a parent (beliefs or not) wouldn't do every possible thing to save their childs life. Surely these "alternative" treatments can be done along with medical treatment.

[Livia]

As Tim Minchin says - Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proved to work? Medicine.
Love Tim Minchin...

It's crazy. I just can't understand how a parent (beliefs or not) wouldn't do every possible thing to save their childs life. Surely these "alternative" treatments can be done along with medical treatment.
I think alongside modern medicine, complementary medicine can be useful. But people are kidding themselves if they think it can suddenly cure stuff it hasn't been able to cure for thousands of years. I understand this woman may be worried about the effects of the treatment on her son, but if the alternative is death, I'd be going for the treatments.

[Jesus.]

Love Tim Minchin...


I think alongside modern medicine, complementary medicine can be useful. But people are kidding themselves if they think it can suddenly cure stuff it hasn't been able to cure for thousands of years. I understand this woman may be worried about the effects of the treatment on her son, but if the alternative is death, I'd be going for the treatments.


Don't be sucked in. It's pure placebo. A sugar pill would work as equally as well as long as the person taking it believed it was medicine.

Alternative medicine is useful in the same way that children think if they cover their eyes, they become invisible.

[Livia]

Don't be sucked in. It's pure placebo. A sugar pill would work as equally as well as long as the person taking it believed it was medicine.

Alternative medicine is useful in the same way that children think if they cover their eyes, they become invisible.

I'm talking about stuff like aromatherapy... it almost certainly doesn't cure anything but relaxes people and makes them less stressed and therefore more able to be in a position to fight whatever ails them. I don't believe it's an actual cure for anything at all.

[Kizzy]

I can sympathize, her son has had the tumour removed.
According to the press association her fear is following radiation therapy his brain will be 'fried'.
Is the treatment a precaution so the removed tumor does not return?
How can anyone unaware of the facts say she is wrong?
There are no guarantees any medical procedures will be successful either, it's not black and white..

[arista]

Kizzy the doctor has said they will not use that alone,
The judge has now said he may return tomorrow
a Saturday - as the doctors have said treatment must start around 13 Dec.


you are wrong to say Fried

[arista]

'I'm not a bonkers mother': Runaway mother tells judge she was only looking after cancer sufferer son's best interests when she prevented him having treatment
Mother Sally Roberts says she ran away with son Neon as she fears radiotherapy will permanently affect his IQ and damage his growth
She has been giving her seriously ill son natural medicine
Doctors disagree with her decision and have started legal proceedings
Mrs Roberts, 37, said she was not a 'bonkers mother' and that she 'only wanted the best for her son'
Neon was temporarily placed into foster care then given to his father


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244602/Sally-Roberts-Runaway-mothers-lawyer-pleads-judge-sympathy-fled-son-Neon-7-fearing-cancer-treatment-fry-brain.html#ixzz2EO6JicjT

[Kizzy]

She said fried not me arista, my source was in my post. Don't tell me I'm wrong then quote the mails tabloid right wing crap.

[arista]

She said fried not me arista, my source was in my post. Don't tell me I'm wrong then quote the mails tabloid right wing crap.


Sorry kizzy.

I hope by tomorrow the Judge rules on this
the Dad is looking after the boy , for now

[Kizzy]

Nay worries, What a decision the judge has to have to make...
This poor family torn apart, and the treatment may not succeed.
The stress and the pressure they must be under...
If miracles exist I hope for one for that child.

[Cherie]

If the boy does end up with brain injury from the radiation, neither the judge nor social services will the there to look after him day in day out.

[Livia]

If the boy does end up with brain injury from the radiation, neither the judge nor social services will the there to look after him day in day out.

Do you think they should just leave him to die then? Let his mother continue with her tinctures and potions? If he dies because she refused the treatment that was recommended by professionals, no one will have to look after him.

This is tragic and people are doing their best to save this child's life with the best technology we have. If the worst happens and the child does end up with some kind of problem, neither the judge not the social services can be blamed for giving it the best shot.

[Cherie]

Do you think they should just leave him to die then? Let his mother continue with her tinctures and potions? If he dies because she refused the treatment that was recommended by professionals, no one will have to look after him.

This is tragic and people are doing their best to save this child's life with the best technology we have. If the worst happens and the child does end up with some kind of problem, neither the judge not the social services can be blamed for giving it the best shot.



In some ways modern medicine is great, but in others it is a curse. I work with children with profound special needs,some of whom would probably not be alive were it not for the "miracle" of modern medicine, its not the quality of life I would want for either of my children, and the worry about what happens to these children when they move into adult services and when their parents eventually pass away is not something that can easily be dismissed with a "oh well at least they are alive" wave of the hand. As I have said on this thread quite a few times now this is not an easy situation for anyone, as the parents views on treatment are diverse, but the mothers concerns should not be dismissed at "neurotic", she wants her child to have a life, not just to be alive.

[joeysteele]

If I was the judge,I would be coming down on the side of the Hospital Doctors and judge that the treatment go ahead. I cannot go along with the Mother's stance at all although I can understand she will have great concern.
There is a split here too in that the Mother is fighting the treatment,however the Father is in support of it.

The overriding factor has to be the best chance for the child, in this case from what I have read and heard,which is limited I accept, I would approve the Hospital Doctors view.
It is a very difficult decision for the judge to make but weighing up what has been reported as to this I cannot see him coming out against the Doctors on this sad matter.

[Livia]

In some ways modern medicine is great, but in others it is a curse. I work with children with profound special needs,some of whom would probably not be alive were it not for the "miracle" of modern medicine, its not the quality of life I would want for either of my children, and the worry about what happens to these children when they move into adult services and when their parents eventually pass away is not something that can easily be dismissed with a "oh well at least they are alive" wave of the hand. As I have said on this thread quite a few times now this is not an easy situation for anyone, as the parents views on treatment are diverse, but the mothers concerns should not be dismissed at "neurotic", she wants her child to have a life, not just to be alive.


I wonder if the parents of the children you work with think the same as you? I have a child with special needs in my family, a child who was perfectly healthy until he was six. He is as loved and adored now as he was before. And if you think I was dismissing anything about this case with a wave of my hand, then you really have got a warped view of me.

Neither have I ever said that this is an easy option for anyone, and I think if the mother wasn't under quite so much stress as this terrible ordeal must have placed on her, perhaps she'd be doing stuff differently. Unfortunately, in order for the child to have a life, as you put it, probably depends on taking whichever risk has the best odds. And that isn't going to be essential oils and tree bark.

[Nedusa]

I can sympathise with the Mother on this sad situation, she feels her son is very creative and has a particularly artistic character. She is worried that the baby will be tossed out with the bath water inasmuch that even if the Radiotherapy prolongs his life the side effects could be so severe that they would destroy most of the traits that define him as a person.

She is hoping a mixture of chemotherapy and alternative medicine could halt his decline without all the side effects of radiotherapy . However Chemotherapy also has some nasty side effects so I'm not sure she has thought this through.

I think she is blinded to the reality of the situation due to her love for her child but unfortunately in this case the courts are going to have to make the final decisions on behalf of this boy. Lets hope there is a positive outcome either way.

[Livia]

I can sympathise with the Mother on this sad situation, she feels her son is very creative and has a particularly artistic character. She is worried that the baby will be tossed out with the bath water inasmuch that even if the Radiotherapy prolongs his life the side effects could be so severe that they would destroy most of the traits that define him as a person.

She is hoping a mixture of chemotherapy and alternative medicine could halt his decline without all the side effects of radiotherapy . However Chemotherapy also has some nasty side effects so I'm not sure she has thought this through.

I think she is blinded to the reality of the situation due to her love for her child but unfortunately in this case the courts are going to have to make the final decisions on behalf of this boy. Lets hope there is a positive outcome either way.

I agree, particularly with the last paragraph.

[Ammi]

...I've been reading up on some of the possible long term effects of radiation therapy on brain tumours in children.....

......seizures are a common long-term effect, and may develop after 10 years or longer following therapy, especially in the case of young children.... children are especially vulnerable to long-term effects of radiation therapy, as such treatments often affect their growth, mental development, coordination and cognitive abilities, all of which are developing in the brain during childhood.....seizures may be mild to severe, and may involve mere mental absences, or blackouts and unconsciousness.... in some cases, delayed effects may also involve poor brain function, death of brain cells and tissue and memory loss....

....besides destroying cancer cells, radiation therapy can also harm normal cells.... normal cells are more likely to recover from its effects though and your child's health care team will take extensive measures to carefully monitor radiation doses to protect healthy tissue......

[arista]

Cancer Boy Court Case Delayed For A Week

[By Nick Martin, Sky Correspondent

The mother of a seven-year-old boy with cancer
has said she does not want him to receive potentially
life-saving radiotherapy because she is worried about
the side effects.

Neon Roberts underwent surgery on a brain tumour
in October and as a follow-up treatment
doctors recommended a course of radiotherapy and chemotherapy.

But his mother Sally said the side effects of the
radiation could have a "damaging effect on his future".

Her estranged husband Ben Roberts, however, agrees
with doctors, who say his chances of survival would
be increased if he had the treatment.

A High Court judge will rule on the matter later this month. A decision
had been expected on Saturday, but a "change in the medical landscape"
meant a new hearing was set for December 18 and 19.

Giving evidence to the court on Friday, Mrs Roberts said:
"I wish for the best future for my son, the best quality of life.
I fear radiotherapy could have damaging effects on his future."

Mrs Roberts described her son as having
an "incredible sense of humour" and being "a great artist, vibrant and healthy".

She told the court that she had researched the side effects
of radiotherapy and asked experts for advice.

She said she feared his IQ would be affected
and that he could have a shorter life with
increased chances of suffering a stroke.]


http://news.sky.com/story/1022269/cancer-boy-court-case-delayed-for-a-week

[Kizzy]

A change in the medical landscape.. what the hell does that mean?
So his treatment will not begin this year then, they know that theres a good chance this childs mother is right.
Bottom line is they are not willing to be held accountable for the outcome of the radiotherapy.
'Professionals' in this case could not accurately predict outcomes, therefore the mother was justified in her hesitation.
To dismiss her for her views and her agonies would be insensitive and wrong.

[arista]

I Will agree to radiotherapy if my son has cancer, says mum who ran away to stop him receiving the life-saving treatment
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245613/I-agree-radiotherapy-son-cancer-says-mum-ran-away-stop-receiving-life-saving-treatment.html#ixzz2EbBYzP64

[Kizzy]

Hmm, right wing tabloid view?
No thankyou.

[Livia]

A worrying thing about this whole scenario is that some people seem to assume that the mother cares more, and worries more about her son than the father does. Because she's the one with the wacky ideas, some people assume she's thinking more deeply about it. I would be very interested to hear more from the father.

[Kizzy]

Nobody has suggested that at all.. And her ideas are far from 'wacky' ,in fact they seem to be shared by the medical professionals who have now decided to wait to see if the 1cm mass they have detected is the cancer returning or simply scar tissue from the removal of the tumour.

[Cherie]

I wonder if the parents of the children you work with think the same as you? I have a child with special needs in my family, a child who was perfectly healthy until he was six. He is as loved and adored now as he was before. And if you think I was dismissing anything about this case with a wave of my hand, then you really have got a warped view of me.




Think the same as me? you have no idea of what I think, as the situation is a lot more complex than the hysterical reporting would have us believe, and as to what the parents of the children in our school think, a significant proportion of the children who come to us live in Childrens Homes and most of those who live with their families have carers and respite, some are loved and adored, some parents find it difficult to to cope and place their children in care and have them home at weekends or visit them in the home, and some do not have any access to their families at all and are in full time care, that is the harsh reality, its not always a happy ending as in your relatives case.

[Livia]

Think the same as me? you have no idea of what I think, as the situation is a lot more complex than the hysterical reporting would have us believe, and as to what the parents of the children in our school think, a significant proportion of the children who come to us live in Childrens Homes and most of those who live with their families have carers and respite, some are loved and adored, some parents find it difficult to to cope and place their children in care and have them home at weekends or visit them in the home, and some do not have any access to their families at all and are in full time care, that is the harsh reality, its not always a happy ending as in your relatives case.

I was responding to what you said in the post I quoted. I assumed you'd thought about what you'd said which is why I used the phrase "think the same as you". And I wouldn't call my relative's case a "happy ending" either. But really, none of that is the question here. As far as I can see, the mother of this child has taken some decisions that both the doctors and the child's father have not considered were in the child's best interest. Now the law has had to step in. I hope whatever decision they come to, the child gets the best care available.

[Kizzy]

The law did not step in, the mother made no decisions, the father was torn but willing to agree to radiotherapy.
Cherie there was a very interesting report in the guardian today outlining the facts.

[arista]

Yes but on TV News
the mother says ok to treatment
if her son gets worse , kizzy

[Livia]

Yes but on TV News
the mother says ok to treatment
if her son gets worse , kizzy

Now the small tumour has been found, the "change in the medical landscape" to which the judge referred, I assume. Had she not whisked him away, perhaps they could have found it weeks ago.

[Kizzy]

Yes but on TV News
the mother says ok to treatment
if her son gets worse , kizzy

No arista.....
The mother said ok to radiotherapy only if the 1cm mass they have seen is actually the cancer returning and not simply innocent scar tissue...
She disagreed with the use of radiation as there was no proof that it was entirely necessary.
I have been following this with great interest.

[arista]

Now the small tumour has been found, the "change in the medical landscape" to which the judge referred, I assume. Had she not whisked him away, perhaps they could have found it weeks ago.



Great points

[arista]

No arista.....
The mother said ok to radiotherapy only if the 1cm mass they have seen is actually the cancer returning and not simply innocent scar tissue...
She disagreed with the use of radiation as there was no proof that it was entirely necessary.
I have been following this with great interest.


Yes sure 1cm mass.

If that gets worse
then she will allow the Doctor to to take over

[Kizzy]

If what gets worse?...
have you seen something the doctors haven't?

[arista]

If what gets worse?...have you seen something the doctors haven't?


The Boys Cancer

[Kizzy]

What cancer?

[arista]

"agree to radiotherapy if my son has cancer, says mum"

the possible cancer the mother spoke of, kizzy

[Kizzy]

"agree to radiotherapy if my son has cancer, says mum"

the possible cancer the mother spoke of, kizzy

The key word there being if...
was there ever any dispute that she would refuse treatment if the cancer returned?....no.
Following the removal of the tumour she agreed to chemotherapy but refused radiotherapy.
All she was asking was that he was given the chance to beat the cancer without having his brain fried...
Is that so wrong?

[Cherie]

The key word there being if...
was there ever any dispute that she would refuse treatment if the cancer returned?....no.
Following the removal of the tumour she agreed to chemotherapy but refused radiotherapy.
All she was asking was that he was given the chance to beat the cancer without having his brain fried...
Is that so wrong?

No, and I believe she is right to question and research all the options and not be bullied into giving a treatment to her son she does not feel comfortable with.

[Livia]

"agree to radiotherapy if my son has cancer, says mum"...

And Dad is putting his trust in the medical team to do what's best for his son. I don't understand why some people are beginning to look on the doctors and medics in this case like they're a bunch of Frankensteins ready to "fry" a child's brain for no good reason.

[Jesus.]

And Dad is putting his trust in the medical team to do what's best for his son. I don't understand why some people are beginning to look on the doctors and medics in this case like they're a bunch of Frankensteins ready to "fry" a child's brain for no good reason.

Because people believe in a mothers intuition/instincts far more than medical science.

[Cherie]

And Dad is putting his trust in the medical team to do what's best for his son. I don't understand why some people are beginning to look on the doctors and medics in this case like they're a bunch of Frankensteins ready to "fry" a child's brain for no good reason.


Because from personal experience, a lot of box ticking and arse covering goes on in the medical profession, they are not infallible, if I was unsure, I would ask for a second/third/fourth opinion until I was satisfied how to proceed.

[Livia]

Because people believe in a mothers intuition/instincts far more than medical science.

Yes, something that's always mystified me. What about the father's intuition? Having a kid doesn't make you all-knowing, nor does it necessarily make you particularly maternal. Karen Matthews. Nuff said.

People say they don't believe in medical science... until they need it. Then they're in Casualty demanding immediate attention.

[Kizzy]

Intution?
It had nothing to do with intuition...
She and her ex partner face the worst decision ever to be faced by parents. To suggest that they are poles apart in their approach to this is wrong.
As said radiotherapy is effective on the treatment of cancer, but harmful on healthy cells.
The research, consultations and discussions these parents will have had since the removal of the tumour in october on how best to proceed ....
How that leads to these suggestions it's simply the mothers whim as some crazed hippy is beyond ignorance.

[Cherie]

Yes, something that's always mystified me. What about the father's intuition? Having a kid doesn't make you all-knowing, nor does it necessarily make you particularly maternal. Karen Matthews. Nuff said.

People say they don't believe in medical science... until they need it. Then they're in Casualty demanding immediate attention.

Naturally that is what I would do, but I wouldn't leave my brain at home, doctors have been known to make mistakes too!

[Jesus.]

Naturally that is what I would do, but I wouldn't leave my brain at home, doctors have been known to make mistakes too!

Of course, but it's always funny how it only happens in certain areas of science. I've never seen anyone challenge gravity at 35,000ft.

I'm not having a go at you, as science is the only discipline where people try to prove their own work wrong.

[Cherie]

Of course, but it's always funny how it only happens in certain areas of science. I've never seen anyone challenge gravity at 35,000ft.

I'm not having a go at you, as science is the only discipline where people try to prove their own work wrong.

Nothing funny about it when your quality of life is at stake.

[Jesus.]

Nothing funny about it when your quality of life is at stake.

Your life is potentially at stake just by sticking a plug into a socket. Do you question that science? Have a look at the wiring, maybe move the earth around?

[Kizzy]

Nobody is disputing the science behind the treatment as useful or beneficial in some cases though...
Just this one...let's not spin off into the stratosphere of supposition or strange comparisons.
Given the circumstances what would jesus do?

[Vicky.]

I always thought chemo was more harmful than radiotherapy. My mother was extremely happy to hear she would get radiotheraphy rather than chemo when she had cancer. Then again I guess its different when its on your brain :/

[Kizzy]

Can't copy and paste :(
This Pub-Med article may be the reason for the mothers decision?
''Post operative chemotherapy without radiation in young children with malignant non astrocytic brain tumours''
This report shows that in cases of medullblastomas radiation is not always necessary.

[Cherie]

Your life is potentially at stake just by sticking a plug into a socket. Do you question that science? Have a look at the wiring, maybe move the earth around?

Your argument is totally flawed, getting out of bed is a risk, thats not the argument, the argument is whether or not you would allow your child to have a whopping great dose of radiation, and whether are happy to accept the risk involved on their behalf, if you would do that without question then that is your perogative, I would question it, research it, I might at the end of the day go with it, but I wouldn't take the opinion of one other human being on such a serious issue.

Vicky, children are much more prone to serious side effects from radiation due to their developing nervous systems.

[Livia]

I'd be inclined to listen to the people who've studied medicine for seven years, then more post grad studies, then working in the field they specialised in. They're not in it because they want your child to die and I'd place much more trust in them than I would a homeopath or in stuff I'd Googled.

[Kizzy]

So the people who produced the report I googled are not specialists in their field?
If you wish to debate the point livia it would be easier if you directed any post responding to my comments to me.

This is the link to the information if anyone is interested.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8339393

[Kizzy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12/12/sally-roberts-cancer-neon-no-choice_n_2282829.html?ncid=GEP

She told Daybreak that she was not adamantly opposed to giving her son radiotherapy treatment. She said: "I have been asking the whole time, 'Please show me evidence that he does need this treatment'."The only thing they can come up with is a study from the 1940s. It's just radiotherapy, this is how we do it, chemotherapy - they haven't been exploring other options."

Ms Roberts said she had been contacted by medical professionals supporting her belief that there are other options to treat her son.

Speaking about why she was so against her son receiving radiotherapy, she said: "Because it damages your DNA.

"I feel we can still save his life. I'm incredibly confident. That's exactly why I don't just want to race into radiotherapy."

[arista]

Yes Sally has a view.


But Doctors say More stay alive after radiotherapy
Lifesaver, infact - 80% survive.

Without it only 40% survive.


Ref :Ch5News

[arista]

"I feel we can still save his life. I'm incredibly confident."


No Kizzy
she is Not a Doctor in this Field
and has no real idea



Good news is after the Scan
they can go ahead if he is confirmed with that condition

[Kizzy]

No arista...
I don't care what channel 5 news say, 80% of who survive what?
And I didn't say she was a doctor did I?
When facts are posted try to not ignore them.

[arista]

No arista...
I don't care what channel 5 news say, 80% of who survive what?
And I didn't say she was a doctor did I?
When facts are posted try to not ignore them.



Ch5News is supplied by ITN.


I know you did not say she is a Doctor
but its Important to point out.

And the 80% Stay Alive
of course.

[Kizzy]

80% of who survive what though arista?
It's not important to point out it is a nonsensical statement, she has not professed to be a doctor and I haven't suggested she was either.

[arista]

It means 40% more who had treatment Do Not Die

80% is a good result

[Kizzy]

Nobody is disputing radiation works as a treatment for cancer arista.
How specific was the news item,
What type of tumour was it, where was it, how old were the patients?...
All these factors are important in the decision she made, that was backed by medical evidence and professionals.

[Vanessa]

I understand her reasons for wanting to explore an alternative cure. But i really hope she won't end up regretting it.

[thesheriff443]

you have to give your child the best chance of survival,you wont do it by giving him some raw nettles,

[Vanessa]

you have give your child the best chance of survival,you wont do it by giving him some raw nettles,

Exactly. And radiotherapy isn't as harsh as chemotherapy.

[thesheriff443]

Exactly. And radiotherapy isn't as harsh as chemotherapy.
true,
doctors are there to save lifes not take them

[Kizzy]

you have to give your child the best chance of survival,you wont do it by giving him some raw nettles,

That comment shows you haven't read one thing about this case sheriff...

[thesheriff443]

That comment shows you haven't read one thing about this case sheriff...

no it shows you will go around the house.s trying to support your opinion.

[Kizzy]

no it shows you will go around the house.s trying to support your opinion.

Well of course I will!
If by around the houses you mean with the use of relevant information from reputable sources?..
I wouldn't want to come across as ignorant to the facts.

[Livia]

you have to give your child the best chance of survival,you wont do it by giving him some raw nettles,

Quite right. Still the doctors are being made out to be some kind of Frankensteins, and still the wacky mother, who has about as much medical knowledge as most people on this thread, is being viewed like she has a point. Still haven't heard from the father, interestingly. I guess his story doesn't make such sensational reading.

[Kizzy]

That's because she does have a point.
She is in an impossible position, to label her wacky is unnecessary.
Do you need a medical degree to debate an issue now?

[Kizzy]

That's because she does have a point.
She is in an impossible position, to label her wacky is unnecessary.
Do you need a medical degree to debate an issue now?

[arista]

Today the Judge has said tomorrow
the boy will have urgent surgery,
to remove more of the tumour.

The Mother is against this ruling.



Ref Ch5News

[Petershaw1984]

Such a tough argument this

[Livia]

It seems the decision has now been taken out of her hands. I notice she had dismissed her barrister half way through the proceedings. It appears she can accept neither medical nor legal advice.

[Kizzy]

How disgusting.
This mother has the support of many experts in Europe and other areas of the world.
It is a shame that our approach to alternatives to established medical practices is so behind the times.
A glib dismissive attitude towards a heart wrenching situation could not be less humane, christian or even understandable to me....
All I can say is I hope that this child survives and the actions his mother took to save his life were not in vain.

[Nedusa]

Interesting debate inasmuch as there clearly is a point after which the State will intervene if it does not agree with the actions of the mother. So a mothers authority over her child is not unlimited if it is at odds with normally agreed medical practices.

Hope the boy in this case makes the best recovery he can regardless of which type of treatment he receives..!!

[Jesus.]

[B]How disgusting.
This mother has the support of many experts in Europe and other areas of the world.
It is a shame that our approach to alternatives to established medical practices is so behind the times.
A glib dismissive attitude towards a heart wrenching situation could not be less humane, christian or even understandable to me....
All I can say is I hope that this child survives and the actions his mother took to save his life were not in vain.

You can find "many experts" to argue any point you wish. The general consensus is that this is the only course of action to give her son a chance of living.

There are no reliable alternatives to medical practices for one simple reason - once you've proved that any kind of medical procedure works, then it becomes medicine.

What these alternative medicine pushers need to do, is put their work up for examination, explain how it works, and come up with a measurement for testing it.

What doesn't constitute evidence are a few anecdotes.

It's absurd to think this woman, despite having the best interests of her child at heart, is qualified to sign her son to certain death.

[Kizzy]

[B]

You can find "many experts" to argue any point you wish. The general consensus is that this is the only course of action to give her son a chance of living.

There are no reliable alternatives to medical practices for one simple reason - once you've proved that any kind of medical procedure works, then it becomes medicine.

What these alternative medicine pushers need to do, is put their work up for examination, explain how it works, and come up with a measurement for testing it.

What doesn't constitute evidence are a few anecdotes.

It's absurd to think this woman, despite having the best interests of her child at heart, is qualified to sign her son to certain death.

What is absurd is the assumption that what the mother wanted was not a medical practice...
Why are you referring to alternative therapies?...
If you had any idea of the issue you would know that is the last thing the mother was proposing....

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2012/12/18/210432/default/v1/mail-1-329x437.jpg

[Livia]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2012/12/18/210432/default/v1/mail-1-329x437.jpg

But with the consent of his father.

[Kizzy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9753699/Neon-Roberts-brain-tumour-boy-must-have-surgery-rules-High-Court.html#


While admitting that “no one could fail to sympathise” with Mrs Roberts and Neon's s father, Ben, 34, the judge backed evidence from medical experts, who had warned surgery needed to be completed "extremely urgently".

The couple declined to comment outside court.

Mrs Roberts later told the Daily Mail: "I'm not keeping this case going, spending taxpayers' money, for nothing.

"I believe in this. 'Death by doctor'– people need to understand how big a problem it is. I couldn't forgive myself if I did nothing."

The judge will hear arguments about radiotherapy treatment tomorrow.

The parents both want what's best for neon

[Jesus.]

What is absurd is the assumption that what the mother wanted was not a medical practice...
Why are you referring to alternative therapies?...
If you had any idea of the issue you would know that is the last thing the mother was proposing....

Can you explain what you meant by this then?

"This mother has the support of many experts in Europe and other areas of the world.
It is a shame that our approach to alternatives to established medical practices is so behind the times."

I may have misinterpreted your words, but if you could clarify, then that would help me understand exactly you were trying to say.

[Kizzy]

Ok, I meant established medical practices in the UK as opposed to in other parts of the world.
Not alternative therapies as there seems to be quite a lot of confusion surrounding that in this thread.

[Jesus.]

Ok, I meant established medical practices in the UK as opposed to in other parts of the world.
Not alternative therapies as there seems to be quite a lot of confusion surrounding that in this thread.

"alternatives to established medical practices" really does suggest that's what you meant.

Can you expand on these alternatives? Such as?

[Cherie]

On a separate issue does anyone else think the way the police/social services handled this case was a bit over the top....apparently they took him from his Mum in the early hours of the morning and handed him over to foster carers until they could arrange for his Dad to pick him up... given the Mum posed no physical danger to the child I thought this was appaling as if the kid and the Mum aren't traumatised enough. If only social services were so vigilant in other cases we would never have seen cases like Baby P or is it because of cases like Baby P that they were over the top on this?

[Kizzy]

"alternatives to established medical practices" really does suggest that's what you meant.

Can you expand on these alternatives? Such as?

I'm not going to apologize for the fact you misinterpreted what I said.
There is evidence of an alternative on this thread.

[Vanessa]

Well, i'm glad the boy is having surgery. At least it will give him a chance of beating cancer. :(

[Kizzy]

On a separate issue does anyone else think the way the police/social services handled this case was a bit over the top....apparently they took him from his Mum in the early hours of the morning and handed him over to foster carers until they could arrange for his Dad to pick him up... given the Mum posed no physical danger to the child I thought this was appaling as if the kid and the Mum aren't traumatised enough. If only social services were so vigilant in other cases we would never have seen cases like Baby P or is it because of cases like Baby P that they were over the top on this?

It does seen as if it's all or nothing with social services, this was not an abuse case there was no need for the heavy handed approach.
Baby P was tragic evidence of mismanagement between medical professionals and SS imo.

[Livia]

Great news that the little boy came through surgery well. Mother back in court today... I guess she's going to keep on demanding alternative opinions until she finds someone who agrees with her.

[Niamh.]

But with the consent of his father.

Thank God he has one sensible parent then!

[arista]

The Mother is in Court
right now


The Judge is to Rule Tomorrow on this

[Kizzy]

Thank God he has one sensible parent then!

He has two sensible parents..
The judge in this case was very sensitive to the feelings of both parents here.

[Ammi]

..I think the only important thing is that the little guy's ok...not some dispute over which pafrent is the most sensible...so long as they're both looking out for his wellbeing....

[arista]

..I think the only important thing is that the little guy's ok...not some dispute over which pafrent is the most sensible...so long as they're both looking out for his wellbeing....


Yes Ammi

Could you change your heading
as its no longer a Hunt?

[Cherie]

its brilliant he has come through the surgery, hopefully he will continue to respond well to whatever comes next.

[arista]

The Judge has now Ruled
the 7 year old boy can go ahead with the Doctors Treatment
The mother has lost her case.


http://news.sky.com/story/1028759/cancer-ruling-neons-mum-loses-legal-fight

[Jesus.]

Common sense has prevailed.

[Ammi]

..no worries Arista, it's done...


..I don't think we should be so harsh as to say sense has prevailed because I do believe this has been an extremely difficult decision for the parents...the father is reported to have reservations about the treatment as well, which is understandable.....all their fears are well founded but they aren't certain, so surviving the cancer in the first place is a priority...but even if he does survive the cancer, they will still have to wait to see any possible long term effects....it's not a situation that any parent would envy....

[Me. I Am Salman]

Who names their child Neon
anyway this is good news

[Jesus.]

Some bright spark.

I'm here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

[Me. I Am Salman]

:laugh:

[Ammi]

Some bright spark.

I'm here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.


..Jesus H Christ !!.... I hoped we'd be rid of you before Christmas...:tongue:

[Jesus.]

..Jesus H Christ !!.... I hoped we'd be rid of you before Christmas...:tongue:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6crkvpLrB1qb6t6wo1_500.gif

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2012/12/21/210884/default/v0/ifront2212-2-329x437.jpg

Time was wasted fighting this.

[Livia]

More money spent on litigation (she's not funding this pantomime herself, the taxpayer is), more doctors' time wasted giving evidence.

[MusicMan]

So the courts have overruled the parent regarding potentially life-saving treatment...

Could this now open a can of worms regarding blood transfusions for the children of Jehovah's Witnesses?

[Cherie]

I've no problem with tax payers money being spent on this, given that we pay for new identities for child killers, legal aid for murderers to appeal. As a Mum you do what you think is best for your child and most (not all) will go to the end of the earth to get it. It is a no win situation whoever your sympathy's lie with. Lets hope Neon continues to do well with no loss of quality of life. Your's is an interesting point Music Man.

[Kizzy]

What an interesting point, could a parent refuse treatment for a child on religious grounds?
How cynical and debase is it to reduce something this ethically and morally impossible to it's monetary value?
How can we as a civilised society not understand her need to examine every avenue before agreeing to this intrusive potentially destructive treatment?

[Livia]

So the courts have overruled the parent regarding potentially life-saving treatment...

Could this now open a can of worms regarding blood transfusions for the children of Jehovah's Witnesses?

The courts already get involved in cases where someone is refusing life-saving treatment on religious grounds for their next of kin, be they Jehovah's Witnesses or other religious group. The hospital would seek an injunction in the same way this case has gone forward.

[Kizzy]

http://adc.bmj.com/content/90/7/715.full

''the child’s interests are paramount. The court did stress, however, that although the child’s welfare is paramount, consideration would be given to parental beliefs, particularly when the situation was not imminently life threatening''

[arista]

The mother
was just on Daybreak ITV1HD
She now claims other nations do not do this treatment
So another Appeal is starting today
to stop next weeks due treatment.

But has this boy got time for this?

[Livia]

The mother
was just on Daybreak ITV1HD
She now claims other nations do not do this treatment
So another Appeal is starting today
to stop next weeks due treatment.

But has this boy got time for this?

I saw the interview. She did herself no favours at all, I've rarely seen a woman so deep in denial. I also thought it was pretty low that she took the opportunity to have a dig at the boy's father, "I've always been Neon's principal carer, why he's getting involved now I don't know". Maybe because he's the child's father and has as much right to take part in the decision making as she does?

[Kizzy]

I saw it too, there is something to be said for using other treatments, being spoken down to by TV presenters and made to look like some new age loon by the mail and the telegraph is not going to make radiotherapy any less deadly.

[Livia]

The mother grasping at straws and scrabbling round to find an "expert witness" who actually agrees with her is not going to make cancer any less deadly either.

I hope the little boy is okay... but time really is running out for him while his mother crusades in her own little spotlight.

[Niamh.]

So the courts have overruled the parent regarding potentially life-saving treatment...

Could this now open a can of worms regarding blood transfusions for the children of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Seems the boys father wanted him to have the treatment though

[Kizzy]

Nope, she is looking for someone who is willing to perform the same surgery they do abroad here thats the difference.
Here it's radiotherapy or nothing not much of a choice is it?

[Jesus.]

I think they should ignore the urgent medical advice given by the doctors that have all the facts, and have been treating him throughout, and just debate this for another couple of months.

[Kizzy]

I think they should ignore the urgent medical advice given by the doctors that have all the facts, and have been treating him throughout, and just debate this for another couple of months.

They removed a brain tumour, the 1cm shadow could be a residual tumour or scar tissue...
They didn't know either way for long enough, maybe they still don't and the radiotherapy is precautionary?... Would you like to see your son go through this on a 'what if?'

[Niamh.]

They removed a brain tumour, the 1cm shadow could be a residual tumour or scar tissue...
They didn't know either way for long enough, maybe they still don't and the radiotherapy is precautionary?... Would you like to see your son go through this on a 'what if?'

I would like my son to go there through it on "Make sure it's all gone" basis.

[Jesus.]

They removed a brain tumour, the 1cm shadow could be a residual tumour or scar tissue...
They didn't know either way for long enough, maybe they still don't and the radiotherapy is precautionary?... Would you like to see your son go through this on a 'what if?'

I would like my son to go there through it on "Make sure it's all gone" basis.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28058434.jpg

[Kizzy]

I would like my son to go there through it on "Make sure it's all gone" basis.

Me too! residual tumour...what even is that? they left a bit in.....why would they do that, you would think they would want to take all of it surely?

[arista]

The mother grasping at straws and scrabbling round to find an "expert witness" who actually agrees with her is not going to make cancer any less deadly either.

I hope the little boy is okay... but time really is running out for him while his mother crusades in her own little spotlight.


Yes thats what is Wrong here
she stands Alone.


and Her Husband matters in this.

[Kizzy]

Yes thats what is Wrong here
she stands Alone.


and Her Husband matters in this.

Of course he does, I can't help but think that they would have had a better chance if they were united on this, however he has as much right to say what treatment his son recieves.

[Niamh.]

Me too! residual tumour...what even is that? they left a bit in.....why would they do that, you would think they would want to take all of it surely?

Well, it's brain surgery, sometimes they can't get at everything they want to. I would assume anyway.

[Kizzy]

Well, it's brain surgery, sometimes they can't get at everything they want to. I would assume anyway.

Then why not have the treatment focussed in the 1cm area as his mother suggested?...Why the full brain?

[Livia]

Well, it's brain surgery, sometimes they can't get at everything they want to. I would assume anyway.

There can be one cancerous cell left... infinitesimally small... and it can grow into another tumor.

[Niamh.]

Then why not have the treatment focussed in the 1cm area as his mother suggested?...Why the full brain?

Well, I'm not a surgeon and neither is this woman as far as I'm aware. I'm quite sure they took the best action they could regarding it though

[Kizzy]

Well, I'm not a surgeon and neither is this woman as far as I'm aware. I'm quite sure they took the best action they could regarding it though

No she isn't neither am I however I guess if you pass radiation through healthy brain tissue and fry it the outcome is not going to be good.
Oh well, all we can do is hope and pray for the little fella and wish for a miracle.

[Jesus.]

No she isn't neither am I however I guess if you pass radiation through healthy brain tissue and fry it the outcome is not going to be good.
Oh well, all we can do is hope and pray for the little fella and wish for a miracle.

I think that's the point. That's why we trust doctors in the first place. They are not miracle workers or superheroes, and they **** up from time to time, but they would never intentionally do anything to reduce this young mans chances of living.

And wishing for a miracle is of no use either. Medical science, coupled with trained doctors/nurses, and some luck, will decide the outcome.

[Kizzy]

I think that's the point. That's why we trust doctors in the first place. They are not miracle workers or superheroes, and they **** up from time to time, but they would never intentionally do anything to reduce this young mans chances of living.

And wishing for a miracle is of no use either. Medical science, coupled with trained doctors/nurses, and some luck, will decide the outcome.

Ok, i'm not a doctor but i know if you pass radiation through healthy tissue there will be adverse effects.
I know theres no use wishing/ praying yet in such a situations such as this it's just what folk do isn't it?
The mother does have faith in medical science why that is in dispute again is strange, it's only British guidelines on the treatment offered that is in question.

[Ammi]

..apparently, Neon not being able to produce grandchildren for his mother is a factor in her stance, also that radiation could affect his growth...while there are definite risks of this and possibly other future problems they’re not certainties and it’s pointless considering any risks, if there is no life in the first place, which is what the judge based his ruling on, I believe....

..while we’re all debating what Neon needs, I hope he actually gets what he needs, that’s the only thing of any importance....

[Nedusa]

So if I have this story correct , the Mother wants her son to have no life quality altering treatments for his cancer. She wants him to have treatments that do not alter his quality of life or stop him being able to produce sperm when he reaches puberty.

Even though the chances of him surviving are now drastically reduced due to his mothers insistence on him NOT having more conventional treatments that could extend his life.

Does anyone else see an element of selfishness in his mothers actions ? , she seems to be resigned to the fact her son will die very prematurely but his personality will be intact and if he were to make it to puberty he may be able to provide healthy sperm for a possible grandchild.

I am struggling to understand this women's motives...!!!

[Ammi]

So if I have this story correct , the Mother wants her son to have no life quality altering treatments for his cancer. She wants him to have treatments that do not alter his quality of life or stop him being able to produce sperm when he reaches puberty.

Even though the chances of him surviving are now drastically reduced due to his mothers insistence on him NOT having more conventional treatments that could extend his life.

Does anyone else see an element of selfishness in his mothers actions ? , she seems to be resigned to the fact her son will die very prematurely but his personality will be intact and if he were to make it to puberty he may be able to provide healthy sperm for a possible grandchild.

I am struggling to understand this women's motives...!!!


..I don't think it's that simplistic...there are dangers in radiation on the brain with children....it may effect him in lots of ways so I don't dismiss her concerns..however, they're invalid if he has no life at all..she thinks alternative treatments would not only work but create a better chance of less future problems...neither the father or the courts agree with her and they have details of those alternatives which we haven't...so I assume his best chances are radiation....but we still shouldn't dismiss her fears and concerns..she is his mother and presumably only wants what 'she thinks' is best....

[Kizzy]

There is a documentary on Neon Roberts and his mother this evening at 9pm on channel 4.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/youre-killing-my-son-mum-on-the-run

on c5 news now

[Nedusa]

Thanks Kizzy , think I'll give that a watch....!!!!

[arista]

That mother is wrong
she still thinks she is right
even though the lad is getting better now

[Kizzy]

This documentary is very one sided.....
They have rubbished the theory that mobiles have an effect on brain chemistry in children, it's a bit odd.

[Marc]

Horrid woman

[Kizzy]

Well.... That was very moving, I don't really know what to make of it.

[Z]

I hadn't heard about this case before. Very conflicting.

[lippyzippy]

I hate the fact the fact one of the articles say she is denying him 'life saving' treatment. It's not guaranteed at all and makes her out to be a bad mother, when in fact the risks of this treatment will rapidly deteriorate this boys health and if he then passes away his last months alive have been torture, hospitals and a pretty horrible experience. To me she comes across as scared that his last months alive will be like this, and wants him to have at least some normality back in his life.

so instead spend them on the run and getting no treatment that could possibly ease his pain or save his life. what youre saying is insane

[lippyzippy]

..I don't think it's that simplistic...there are dangers in radiation on the brain with children....it may effect him in lots of ways so I don't dismiss her concerns..however, they're invalid if he has no life at all..she thinks alternative treatments would not only work but create a better chance of less future problems...neither the father or the courts agree with her and they have details of those alternatives which we haven't...so I assume his best chances are radiation....but we still shouldn't dismiss her fears and concerns..she is his mother and presumably only wants what 'she thinks' is best....

so running away is the best course of action?

[Kizzy]

Have you watched the documentary or read the articles lippy?

[DanaC]

Tough call for all concerned.

I do feel for the mother in this case, and indeed the father. Treatment options for cancer and other life threatening illnesses are often complex and the odds of surviving versus the odds of complications can be a difficult thing to balance.

I don't have a great deal of faith in doctors to be honest, having lost several family members to medical malpractice or negligence (an aunt who was told by her GP that the persistent pain she kept visiting her about was a symptom of depression - six months later dead of cancer; an uncle whose surgery was delayed on the grounds that there was 'no bleed' in the brain, when in fact their scans had shown the exact opposite - dead in 5 days; another uncle whose operation was messed up when a piece of medical equipment was left inside, and then on the second operation an accidental cut to the spleen, followed by several blood transfusions because they didn't realise he was internally bleeding to death, and a grandparent who effectively starved to death in hospital). But - I don't mistrust them any more than any other professional.

Doing some research, getting a second or third opinion and not assuming that your doctor knows everything isn't a bad thing necessarily. Sometimes there is disagreement over the best way to treat something. Treatments shown to be effective elsewhere sometimes take time to become available in our system, and sometimes treatments and practices simply become accepted as the done thing and are therefore not questioned as much as they should be.

But: her reasoning fell apart utterly when she made the decision that homeopathic/natural remedies were somehow a better option. For anything, let alone for cancer.


This from wiki sums up why:

Homeopathic remedies have been the subject of numerous clinical trials. Taken together, these trials showed at best no effect beyond placebo, at worst that homeopathy could be actively harmful.[21] Although some trials produced positive results,[22][23] systematic reviews revealed that this was because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias.[12][24][25][26] The proposed mechanisms for homeopathy are precluded by the laws of physics from having any effect.[27] Patients who choose to use homeopathy rather than evidence-based medicine risk missing timely diagnosis and effective treatment of serious conditions such as cancer.[28][29] The regulation and prevalence of homeopathy vary greatly from country to country.[

If you start googling this stuff in relation to cancer treatment, you enter a world of anti-science paranoia and pro-alternative medicine propaganda.

[Jesus.]

Homeopathy is insane stupidity, and is based on placebo's. There is nothing about alternative medicine that gives it any credence within medicine. Tim Minchin sums it up perfectly "Want to know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine".


Can anyone confirm whether the documentary is about alternative nonsense, or is it scientifically objective?

I do plan on watching it, but only if it's science based.

[lippyzippy]

Have you watched the documentary or read the articles lippy?

does it say anywhere that the boy with cancer is better off on the run avoiding any doctors and medical advise?

[lippyzippy]

Tough call for all concerned.

I do feel for the mother in this case, and indeed the father. Treatment options for cancer and other life threatening illnesses are often complex and the odds of surviving versus the odds of complications can be a difficult thing to balance.

I don't have a great deal of faith in doctors to be honest, having lost several family members to medical malpractice or negligence (an aunt who was told by her GP that the persistent pain she kept visiting her about was a symptom of depression - six months later dead of cancer; an uncle whose surgery was delayed on the grounds that there was 'no bleed' in the brain, when in fact their scans had shown the exact opposite - dead in 5 days; another uncle whose operation was messed up when a piece of medical equipment was left inside, and then on the second operation an accidental cut to the spleen, followed by several blood transfusions because they didn't realise he was internally bleeding to death, and a grandparent who effectively starved to death in hospital). But - I don't mistrust them any more than any other professional.

Doing some research, getting a second or third opinion and not assuming that your doctor knows everything isn't a bad thing necessarily. Sometimes there is disagreement over the best way to treat something. Treatments shown to be effective elsewhere sometimes take time to become available in our system, and sometimes treatments and practices simply become accepted as the done thing and are therefore not questioned as much as they should be.

But: her reasoning fell apart utterly when she made the decision that homeopathic/natural remedies were somehow a better option. For anything, let alone for cancer.


This from wiki sums up why:



If you start googling this stuff in relation to cancer treatment, you enter a world of anti-science paranoia and pro-alternative medicine propaganda.
theres only 1 person to feel for and that's the sweet innocent 7 year old boy with cancer who clearly needs expert help

[Kizzy]

Tough call for all concerned.

I do feel for the mother in this case, and indeed the father. Treatment options for cancer and other life threatening illnesses are often complex and the odds of surviving versus the odds of complications can be a difficult thing to balance.

I don't have a great deal of faith in doctors to be honest, having lost several family members to medical malpractice or negligence (an aunt who was told by her GP that the persistent pain she kept visiting her about was a symptom of depression - six months later dead of cancer; an uncle whose surgery was delayed on the grounds that there was 'no bleed' in the brain, when in fact their scans had shown the exact opposite - dead in 5 days; another uncle whose operation was messed up when a piece of medical equipment was left inside, and then on the second operation an accidental cut to the spleen, followed by several blood transfusions because they didn't realise he was internally bleeding to death, and a grandparent who effectively starved to death in hospital). But - I don't mistrust them any more than any other professional.

Doing some research, getting a second or third opinion and not assuming that your doctor knows everything isn't a bad thing necessarily. Sometimes there is disagreement over the best way to treat something. Treatments shown to be effective elsewhere sometimes take time to become available in our system, and sometimes treatments and practices simply become accepted as the done thing and are therefore not questioned as much as they should be.

But: her reasoning fell apart utterly when she made the decision that homeopathic/natural remedies were somehow a better option. For anything, let alone for cancer.


This from wiki sums up why:



If you start googling this stuff in relation to cancer treatment, you enter a world of anti-science paranoia and pro-alternative medicine propaganda.

What horrible experiences dana, I can see why you would be sceptical towards medical professionals following these failings.
I thought the documentary very one sided, it was touching in that you could see they were so very desperate to try anything to avoid invasive treatment.

The medulloblastoma he had was curable without radiation, and the most interesting thing to me was in her interview on Channel 5 news yesterday evening she said the action she requested would be available on the NHS in the UK from 2017....
The alternative therapies were in addition to and not as well as treatments.

Oxygen and nutrients can't cure cancer but they can aid the autoimmume system to support the bodies fight.

[Kizzy]

does it say anywhere that the boy with cancer is better off on the run avoiding any doctors and medical advise?

When she was 'on the run' neon did not have cancer.

[DanaC]

I would add this caveat to my post though: I do have a great deal of faith in modern medicine. And I am far more inclined to accept the assessments of medical professionals than of homeopaths and internet groups.

Whether or not I trust an individual medical practitioner depends on a lot of factors, including whether or not they have engendered a level of personal trust during my interactions with them.

Alongside the above catalogue of horrors, I have also had very good experiences of doctors and hospitals.

[Indy]

I would add this caveat to my post though: I do have a great deal of faith in modern medicine. And I am far more inclined to accept the assessments of medical professionals than of homeopaths and internet groups.

Whether or not I trust an individual medical practitioner depends on a lot of factors, including whether or not they have engendered a level of personal trust during my interactions with them.

Alongside the above catalogue of horrors, I have also had very good experiences of doctors and hospitals.

I have the same issue, especially when it comes to treatment for my son. My grandmother had my grandfather drive her 30 miles to the hospital because she knew something didn't feel right. They dismissed her as "paranoid old lady" and sent her home. The next day she had a chiro appt (aka "quack doctor appt"), told him about it, he did an exam, immediately identified the problem, sent her back to the hospital with his own directions on what to examine, and she was rushed into surgery an hour later. The problem they couldn't be bothered to check out the day before had nearly killed her.

Similarly my mother. She contracted meningitis. The last 3 months of her life were spent in hospitals and nursing homes, even though she was only in her 50's. They wrote her off as moody and temperamental, even though we all kept telling them she wasn't herself, she was delusional, sometimes had total memory lapses. AFTER it was too late they realized she'd had a stroke (or more correctly, a series of strokes), most likely when her fever spiked from the meningitis. For months they would only administer pain meds if she asked for them, but she wasn't capable of asking, because she didn't even know what day it was. One day she insisted her cousin was on a horse outside her window...her room was on the third floor. They couldn't be bothered to follow up on those things, though, and by the time they finally figured out what was going on, she was so out of it a spinal tap didn't even make her flinch. She was gone 2 days later.

When I hear someone say they don't trust the doctors to do the right thing, I completely understand. People tend to forget that not only are doctors human and subject to the same prejudices as the rest of us mere mortals, they also have some of the highest rates of alcoholism and drug abuse. Whether I agree with the specific reasons that mother had or not, I'm well aware that too many people are far too trusting of others, simply because there's an MD at the end of their name.