ATOS ...death toll.

[Kizzy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/17/atos-attack-emotional-commons-debate

''The government's own figures revealed that 1,300 people had died after being told they should start preparing to go back to work, and another 2,200 had died before their assessment was complete, he said.

"Is it reasonable to pressurise seriously disabled persons into work so ruthlessly when there are 2.5 million unemployed and when, on average, eight persons chase every vacancy, unless they are provided with the active and extensive support they obviously need to get and hold down work, which is certainly not the case currently?" Meacher asked''

[joeysteele]

Any decent Politician worth anything at all would be fighting tooth and nail against the guidelines laid out for the DWP and these ATOS re-aasessments.

This is causing chaos and the appeals are costing far more than the re-assessments almost,what we don't hear is the significant number of appeals that are successful,yet the Govt,this heartless Govt, goes on with these new tests and guidelines.
I would in an instant action, get rid of ATOS and totally plan the procedures again.

I am myself though, personally furious at these policies as set up by the totally heartless Ian Duncan Smith who just about lies through his teeth when he says all this is to benefit the genuine sick and disabled and most vulnerable.
In fact it is doing the opposite and causing massive stress and putting intense pressure on the genuinely sick,disabled and their carers and families.

I have a friend,older than myself who was brain damaged a few years ago in a serious accident, he has in the last 4 years been to these ATOS things twice already in that time.
Last time he went,after the face to face interview,a letter was sent saying he was losing some of his benefits as he was considered able for some work.
I, with his family, appealed against that decision and the judgement was that it was a totally wrong decision and the appeal was upheld and all his funds were returned and backdated.

Now this very week,he received a letter stating the same process is going on again, he has to have filled in another atrociously long questionnaire, despite all that which only happened early last year.
This is because the benefits are changing and they need to see if he can get ESA, also if he will be in the work related grouping for it or the support grouping if he is deemed entitled to it.

Again, more stress on his carers and family, more to the point though, the waste of all the time of phone calls to and from the DWP, also the paperwork and then the likely assessments face to face to come too.

He can hardly communicate,I find this heartless and really also inhumane, I am longing to get the chance to sound off at the Lib Dems for ever supporting these changes and causing so much pain to the most vulnerable.
I have said for a fair while here now that the Conservatives have given Duncan Smith far too much of a free run on these reforms, it is going too far and almost now seems more like a vendetta against the sick,disabled and most vulnerable.

This Govt will surely be judged in history as one of the most unjust, ruthless and heartless ever in relation to the genuine weakest in its society.
For crying out loud, I was livid when I learned about the letter and phone call this week again as to my Friends changeover of benefits and this whole stressful process to go through yet again.

Duncan Smith claims to be a Christian for goodness sake, in my view he is the biggest turn off as to Christianity and in my view, he should have no influence any longer in affecting other peoples lives and incomes.

The Conservatives would not even trust him to lead them into an election,I can see why for sure now.
I just wish people would scream at this Govt that people do believe in welfare and benefit reform but not in victimisation and discrimination which is exactly what has happened in practice in the implementation of these heartless policies as laid out by the Conservatives and fully 100% supported by the cowardly and pathetic Lib Dems.

My apologies this is so long but I really am furious at the events of this week and really sickened at the heartlessness of this Govt and this policy now.
In fact, if I had not had a friend who was in this situation, I would have found it very hard likely to believe any Govt could even contemplate setting out to bring in such a heartless and rotten policy in the UK.
Having seen it for myself and also getting involved in the appeals process too, I have had a great education,it is a pity Ministers and Politicians who demonise the vulnerable don't get out and see it for themselves too.

[Redway]

Joey. :lovedup:

[Nedusa]

Looks like the new policy is working...!!!

[Kizzy]

Make no mistake they will be well aware joey, I would have thought you would be looking for a new career path as politics now only seems to attract the most mercenary, machiavellian and ruthless individuals haha.
Those with a genuine human interest and compassion are being subverted...

Big business and the media are a powerful ally, the three pronged attack the government has launched on the weakest members of society over the last two years has been unprecedented.

Thousands have died and thousands more will die.

[arista]

"Thousands have died and thousands more will die. "


Yes its wrong
but some may die anyway
so I do not like the way they get the numbers.

[joeysteele]

Make no mistake they will be well aware joey, I would have thought you would be looking for a new career path as politics now only seems to attract the most mercenary, machiavellian and ruthless individuals haha.
Those with a genuine human interest and compassion are being subverted...

Big business and the media are a powerful ally, the three pronged attack the government has launched on the weakest members of society over the last two years has been unprecedented.

Thousands have died and thousands more will die.

I don't want to sound like I am blowing my own trumpet but I wish more people who think and more to the point 'feel' like I do would actually go into Politics.

I understand sometimes Govts have to take hard and sometimes painful and drastic decisions but I would hope no matter where any road in Politics may take me,that any policies I could and would support would have compassion,fairness and real understanding as to them.

I am nothing special,just I hope a guy who cares for others,particularly those less fortunate than I am.
My fear is for the people who are really sick and disabled, who really cannot do any regular steady job who get faced with a loss of benefits if they are deemd fit for some work after these ATOS/DWP decisions.

How will regular day in day out work affect their illness and disability,who can really answer that question.
In my view certainly not ATOS or the DWP and for definite not the heartless Duncan Smith.

As you say people will die or get worse, for goodness sake, some cancer patients still undergoing chemotherapy have been told they are deemed fit for some work, has the Govt any idea the massive stress and energy lost during chemotherapy that can happen.

The annoying thing about this Govt to me is that it has not got a mandate for these policies, the Conservatives didn't get an overall majority in the last election, therefore they got no mandate from the voters to implement the policies as they were and had they been a minority Govt they could likely never have done so.
They led in the last election but did not win it outright.

By the same token, none of these polices as to the sick and disabled were in the Lib Dem manifesto at all, so how they could use their votes given to them by the voters on all they said, to support near in full these welfare and benefit reform policies is beyond belief and in my view totally wrong.

I support benefit reform, I agree benefits should be unified and simplified but these reforms are being used to belittle and attack the weakest and most vulnerable.
Yes there are probably some fiddlers and scroungers as there are on tax at the highest levels and in Companies too.
I hate though this continuous sledgehammer that the Govt brings out against the most vulnerable, I hate more the fact the Lib Dems are allowing it too.

At the next election, Candidates from the medical profession will likely be standing in a number of seats to highlight the opposition to the also wrong across the board NHS reforms, I hope many people will stand as candidates and also shout as loud as they can as to the heartlessness of these welfare and benefit policies too.

How many people will have died or have become even more ill because of them in that time to 2015 is as you point out likely to rise significantly.
I just hope post 2015, we get a Govt,no matter its form, that at least has and shows it has, a heart especially in its policies that affect those in the greatest need and who are the most vulnerable.

If I do go into Politics, I hope I will hold on to my being a concensus politician,there are plenty that exist now in all parties but it seems extremes dominate,people like Duncan Smith and also the ridiculous George Osborne with his never missing a chance to try to demonise those on benefits.

These policies have gone way too far, they should be stalled and looked at again, for me ATOS should be removed from the whole process and Duncan Smith should out the process too, if he won't agree to move from Works and Pensions then move him anyway, let the heartless man he is go on the backbenches.

This Govt. has all the welfare rights groups,the Citizens Advice and endless charities involved with the care of people sick and disabled, all telling them the dangers, fears for the future and wrongs of these benefit reforms.
If they really won't listen to them then I really hope voters shut their ears when the likes of Duncan Smith and the truly discredited Lib Dems come to them for their votes next time round.

[Vicky.]

Government/dwp will be happy. Theres a bit more money saved eh?

But seriously...if they are ill enough to die while awaiting appeals or after being found 'fit'...then surely this proves the tests arent fit for purpose and that the governments mantra of 'the genuine ill have no reason to worry' is a load of bollocks. Then again, the whole point of the tests are to get people off sickness benefits so I guess they are doing their 'purpose' in a way.

[Kizzy]

From this it seems in the future one thing is certain...
The golden rule...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/18/buddy-scheme-multinationals-access-ministers

''The minister for trade Lord Green launched the "strategic relations" initiative in July 2011, giving 38 companies, including oil, telecoms and pharmaceutical giants, a direct line to ministers and officials.

The Guardian has obtained a list of 12 further companies which have now been added to the programme, and understands that UK Trade and Investment is considering up to 30 more for addition over 2013.

Analysis of official registers reveals the 38 companies in the first wave of the initiative – more than two-thirds of which are based overseas – have collectively had 698 face-to-face meetings with ministers under the current government, prompting accusations of an over-cosy relationship between corporations and ministers.

The full degree of contact between the chosen companies and the government is not known as telephone calls, emails, and meetings with officials are not recorded on the registers''

Whoever has the gold makes the rules.....

[Kizzy]

Government/dwp will be happy. Theres a bit more money saved eh?

But seriously...if they are ill enough to die while awaiting appeals or after being found 'fit'...then surely this proves the tests arent fit for purpose and that the governments mantra of 'the genuine ill have no reason to worry' is a load of bollocks. Then again, the whole point of the tests are to get people off sickness benefits so I guess they are doing their 'purpose' in a way.

Hi vicky :)
I think this goes some way to explaining that..

''Conservative MP Jeremy Lefroy said Atos should be placed in the "last chance saloon" by the government.There was concern from Labour's Sheila Gilmour that 43% of people who were found fit for work were not working the following year and were not receiving benefits. "Where are they?" she asked''

The real reason for them... They are so difficult, confusing and traumatic to complete some just don't bother? .. :conf: