In or Out Of Europe - PM David Cameron

[arista]

Was on SkyNewsHD, Bloomberg , BBC News


He has pointed out
In or Out of What?
He has stated Europe is changing
and for the next 5 or 6 years
we need to see if it is Fair.

Now all this is after 2015
if he is in power.



Labour has Stated No Way will they do that
they do not trust the UK Peoples Voice.


"Landmark speech at Bloomberg in Central London
sets timetable for historic vote"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266720/David-Cameron-Europe-speech-You-WILL-vote-Europe.html#ixzz2Imnm1WOd

"Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande plan to put
forward proposals for deeper economic
and monetary co-operation in May " - To stay Alive


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/jan/23/cameron-europe-speech-referendum-live-blog

[joeysteele]

I still think it's a massive gamble, however opinion seems to be moving slowly more to staying in than coming out of the EU.
I cannot though see him winning the next election with an overall majority so he is near for sure unlikely to be able to deliver such a referendum.

He risks opening up a great divide in the Conservative party too and divided parties do not do well in General Elections at all.
In such a referendum, I would vote to stay in anyway.
Risky and unwise,he has been badly advised on this in my opinion.

[Jesus.]

You can't trust the voice of the people unfortunately. This issue has been lied about, and the people have been mislead. Talk to the man on the street about Europe, and they'll feed you all the tabloid talking points.

I doubt many people even mention trade. This is such an emotive subject, that an honest debate will never be had.

[joeysteele]

You can't trust the voice of the people unfortunately. This issue has been lied about, and the people have been mislead. Talk to the man on the street about Europe, and they'll feed you all the tabloid talking points.

I doubt many people even mention trade. This is such an emotive subject, that an honest debate will never be had.

I agree with that. The public will never likely get a balanced argument especially from the media as to this issue. That's why I think he would be wrong to go down this route.

[arista]

I still think it's a massive gamble, however opinion seems to be moving slowly more to staying in than coming out of the EU.
I cannot though see him winning the next election with an overall majority so he is near for sure unlikely to be able to deliver such a referendum.

He risks opening up a great divide in the Conservative party too and divided parties do not do well in General Elections at all.
In such a referendum, I would vote to stay in anyway.
Risky and unwise,he has been badly advised on this in my opinion.


But this Stops UKIP
messing Election numbers up
they have gone down in the polls , now.

[arista]

You can't trust the voice of the people unfortunately. This issue has been lied about, and the people have been mislead. Talk to the man on the street about Europe, and they'll feed you all the tabloid talking points.

I doubt many people even mention trade. This is such an emotive subject, that an honest debate will never be had.


Now the BBC can now do loads of QT Specials on it
and The LibDems before getting in Power
wanted this.


British People have a Right to Vote On It.
Unless Labour have Power
Then they do not.

[Jesus.]

Now the BBC can now do loads of QT Specials on it
and The LibDems before getting in Power
wanted this.


British People have a Right to Vote On It.
Unless Labour have Power
Then they do not.

The British people elect politicians who take decisions on our behalf on a daily basis. This is no different.

Not many people are interested in politics or watching QT, but most of the country would spout a load of bollocks about Europe controlling our country to send money to Greece.

[Livia]

I don't know enough about it yet to make an informed decision.

[arista]

I don't know enough about it yet to make an informed decision.


Yes that is Fine.

[arista]

The British people elect politicians who take decisions on our behalf on a daily basis. This is no different.

Not many people are interested in politics or watching QT, but most of the country would spout a load of bollocks about Europe controlling our country to send money to Greece.


Sure
well we can have it in a MTV debate
And Every Ch.

Even kids

[joeysteele]

I am all for getting a better deal from the EU and I agree with the already laid down legislation that any more transfer of powers from the UK to the EU has to be put to te people in a referendum,however, I still believe that in an in/out referendum the anti EU brigade will be more likely to make the effort to go out and vote in a referendum.

That is the danger, we will have had an election in 2015,or sooner if this really angers the Lib Dems enough.
The voters will not wnat to be trooping out again 2 years on to vote in yet another referendum,look at the farce of the AV vote referendum.

This PM could go down in history as the one who broke up the UK should the Scots vote for independence then recklessly walked us out of the EU with all the likely economic uncertainty and dangers that may come from that.

All parties are in favour of getting a better deal from the EU,there is little argument there perhaps if David Cameron is really genuinely interested as to what voters think, he should ask them what they want re-negotiated rather than what he wants,or more to the point what the more extreme wing of his party wants.

This to me is a saving exercise for his own career, not something that is wholly in the National interest.
There are so many people who still have little understanding of the workings of the EU that 4 years is not going to make much difference and as for TV debating, well we got plently of near lies from Politicians and false promises in all those during the last election.

However, I can see Labour also promising,by the time of the elction a pledge to also re-negotiate a better deal with the EU and also to hold a referendum of sorts.

Despite what has happened as Govts promising and then not delivering Europe referenda in the past, it is in fact Labour who are the only party ever to deliver a referendum on Europe.
Even when negotiating entry to Europe and going in,(in the early 70s), the Conservatives held no referendum on the final deal even then.
They don't have a good track record as to going back to the voters when they say they are likely to.

I do think it will bring back some voters from UKIP to the Conservatives, not enough to win an election outright.
However I think from the further austerity measures still to come in this year and next, the voters will have many other grievances and things affecting them on their minds than a vote as to Europe being the decider as to how they will vote.

[arista]

No Joey
Labour has Said No to
In or Out.
They do Not Trust the British Voter

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266720-00F5E4F300000191-5_634x741.jpg
A classic time - back in 1971


"This PM could go down "
sure Joey
But I do not agree with your Horror view.

[Marc]

out.

[arista]

out.


there is a Legal voter for 2017

[joeysteele]

No Joey
Labour has Said No to
In or Out.
They do Not Trust the British Voter

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266720-00F5E4F300000191-5_634x741.jpg
A classic time - back in 1971


"This PM could go down "
sure Joey
But I do not agree with your Horror view.

I would hope you are right on the last comment arista and that I am wrong.

As to the frist comment,with over 2 years to the next election it is amazing what parties decide once an election looms.
I recall Labour being dead against again any electoral reform, however they announced they would hold a referendum on the AV vote at their conference before the General election.
If Labour see an in/out referendum as a vote winner,it would not surprise me to see a dramatic u turn as to one.
They will also be able to argue they are in fact the only party ever to hold a referendum on Europe.

The next 2 years are going to be interesting politically to say the least.

[arista]

"If Labour see an in/out referendum as a vote winner,it would not surprise me to see a dramatic u turn as to one."

Thats a Big If
today Labour said No again.


Labour has run away from this
And UKIP now has no place

[MTVN]

I don't expect the Conservatives to be in power to carry this out and certainly not with an overall majority, if this does ever happen though I think when it comes down to it most people would want to stay in, as would I although I do support Cameron's attempt to restructure our relationship with Europe

[Nedusa]

Just a thought regarding this debate, since the decision to go into the "Common Market" was taken back in 1973 people voting then would have to be at least 18 yrs so anyone born after 1956 onwards would not have been eligible to vote.

So everyone aged 57 and below has never had a say in whether we should go in or stay in Europe. Well thats a very large proportion of the electorate so large in fact that I would argue we MUST have a new vote and give everyone the right to exercise their democratic choice...!!!

[arista]

"PM Cameron's EU referendum pledge leaves Labour in turmoil as Miliband refuses to support 2017 vote despite backbench support"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266720/David-Cameron-Europe-speech-Labour-turmoil-Miliband-refuses-support-2017-vote-despite-backbench-support.html#ixzz2IoFUIAgY

See Joey
Labour Do not Trust the British Voters

It Matters

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266720-171BA956000005DC-132_634x400.jpg

[Jesus.]

I don't expect the Conservatives to be in power to carry this out and certainly not with an overall majority, if this does ever happen though I think when it comes down to it most people would want to stay in, as would I although I do support Cameron's attempt to restructure our relationship with Europe

I'd be amazed if the majority of British people wanted to stay in. Europe is the root cause of all our problems according to most of the tabloids, which is where a high proportion of the voters will be getting their information from.

[Jesus.]

"PM Cameron's EU referendum pledge leaves Labour in turmoil as Miliband refuses to support 2017 vote despite backbench support"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266720/David-Cameron-Europe-speech-Labour-turmoil-Miliband-refuses-support-2017-vote-despite-backbench-support.html#ixzz2IoFUIAgY

See Joey
Labour Do not Trust the British Voters

It Matters

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266720-171BA956000005DC-132_634x400.jpg

Nor should they. They are elected to govern, not to push it back on the people. When they are signing agreements with other nations, or issuing sanctions on Iran in our names, they don't ask our opinions first.

It's red meat for the base.

[arista]

"Nor should they. They are elected to govern"


Yes but on Europe it Angers so many
So Labour say No.

Conservatives say Yes to a Public Vote


Former Un Elected New Labour PM Brown
got caught on Europe with that old Lady Gillian that stopped him
then the SkyNews Mic caught what he thought of that bigot. (thats his choice of word)

[Jesus.]

"Nor should they. They are elected to govern"


Yes but on Europe it Angers so many
So Labour say No.

Conservatives say Yes to a Public Vote


Former Un Elected New Labour PM Brown
got caught on Europe with that old Lady Gillian that stopped him
then the SkyNews Mic caught what he thought of that bigot. (thats his choice of word)

Labour don't represent my views. The Iraq war caused a million people to march on the capital and nothing happened. No one got a vote on that, and the conservatives weren't screaming that the people should choose then, either.

Politicians only want to do these things when they think they'll win. It's an illusion of democracy.

[Livia]

I think a major factor in this is that a lot of die-hard Conservative voters, and indeed members, are defecting to UKIP. I know this because they're taking the trouble to let the party know how displeased they are with their stance on not only Europe, but gay marriage, cuts to the armed forces, tax breaks for the richest... a whole host of areas where the government are shooting themselves in the foot on almost a daily basis. The Conservatives did promise a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and lots of people were upset that they didn't get that (although the treaty had already been ratified by the time they came to power and it would have been a waste of time). At first glance, this looks to me like a desperate attempt to win back the party faithfull who have already crossed over to UKIP.

[the truth]

good news lets withdraw as far as possible...i dont beelieve for a milisecond european comapnies wont trade with us because we havent signed up to every eu bill....its scare mongering by a bunch of tax dodging free loading civil rights abusing control freaks. im a brit get me out of here

[arista]

From Jeff Randall Live On SkyNewsHD

The French want to Roll out red carpet for us to leave,
But who cares , thats the stink French.

The German Leader said she will have More talks with the UK
but also other nations want talks.
But she was positive about the UK

[arista]

Labour don't represent my views. The Iraq war caused a million people to march on the capital and nothing happened. No one got a vote on that, and the conservatives weren't screaming that the people should choose then, either.

Politicians only want to do these things when they think they'll win. It's an illusion of democracy.


Thats Good.

I Understand your Illusion Point.


But Due To UKIP - Who we no longer Need,
The PM had no choice.

The BBC ran a Conservative Election Broadcast at a few mins to 7PM
What the hell for?

[Omah]

Ah, "the old in-out", that's certainly what Cameron is doing to the working class of this country, now he wants to do it to Europe, too ..... :pipe:

[the truth]

most people do not get their views ffrom tabloids any more, newspaper sales are lower than ever, people can get opinions from thousands of different places nowadays

[arista]

Ah, "the old in-out", that's certainly what Cameron is doing to the working class of this country, now he wants to do it to Europe, too ..... :pipe:


Yes The Working Class on Ch5News,
SkyNewsHD, BBC News , ITVNews are Angry at Europe

[arista]

most people do not get their views ffrom tabloids any more, newspaper sales are lower than ever, people can get opinions from thousands of different places nowadays


Yes its Good to have 16 News Channels
plus the Bloated BBC.


SkyNewsHD and RTHD
and CNN are Great.
Also Ch4News.

[Jesus.]

Thats Good.

I Understand your Illusion Point.


But Due To UKIP - Who we no longer Need,
The PM had no choice.

The BBC ran a Conservative Election Broadcast at a few mins to 7PM
What the hell for?

My politics are way to the left of Labour.

[arista]

My politics are way to the left of Labour.


Nothing Wrong with That


Labour are Neo Conservatives, anyway.

You will Never Get in Power, Though.
(unless its after a World War )

[Jesus.]

Nothing Wrong with That


Labour are Neo Conservatives, anyway.

You will Never Get in Power, Though.
(unless its after a World War )

Your obsession with world war is slightly concerning, but if ever there is an apocalypse, I will find you Arista. I reckon you'd stay safe.

[arista]

Your obsession with world war is slightly concerning, but if ever there is an apocalypse, I will find you Arista. I reckon you'd stay safe.


Yes I will be in my Bunker.


http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-news/images/730_wide_images/Cameron_comic.JPG

From Ch4News Site.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/1/23/217037/default/v1/guardai-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/1/23/217038/default/v1/daily-mail-frontpage-24jan-1-329x437.jpg

[arista]

Ah, "the old in-out", that's certainly what Cameron is doing to the working class of this country, now he wants to do it to Europe, too ..... :pipe:



Thats a Sexual way of saying it.

[arista]

Today PM David Cameron
is in europe to get a reduction in what we pay
and many others are backing this.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/2/8/220155/default/v1/rtr3dgzx-1-522x293.jpg
http://news.sky.com/story/1049289/eu-budget-leaders-close-to-new-deal

[lostalex]

The UK would be stupid to leave the EU. It won't happen.

[arista]

The UK would be stupid to leave the EU. It won't happen.



If he gets back in Power
The British will Vote In Or Out


This Nation is Split on it.
Buit the Vote was promised by New Labour and Conservatives
and Lib Dems before now.

It will get millions voting
who have never ever before

[lostalex]

If he gets back in Power
The British will Vote In Or Out


This Nation is Split on it.
Buit the Vote was promised by New Labour and Conservatives
and Lib Dems before now.

It will get millions voting
who have never ever before

yea, remember when the Scottish vote was 50/50 then all of sudden when they were told they could actually vote, suddenly all those Scottish people don't wanna leave the UK anymore.

Same for the EU vote.

Trust me, Scotland ain't gonna leave the UK, and the UK ain't gonna leave the EU.

All of this talk is just wasted breath.

you can QUOTE me on THAT!

[Livia]

Just a thought regarding this debate, since the decision to go into the "Common Market" was taken back in 1973 people voting then would have to be at least 18 yrs so anyone born after 1956 onwards would not have been eligible to vote.

So everyone aged 57 and below has never had a say in whether we should go in or stay in Europe. Well thats a very large proportion of the electorate so large in fact that I would argue we MUST have a new vote and give everyone the right to exercise their democratic choice...!!!

That is a very good point.

I still don't consider I know enough to make an informed choice as to which way I'd vote. There are fors and againsts on both sides. If it does come to a referendum, I hope to see some clear, unbiased information available.

[lostalex]

ok you need to understand something. the UK is a huge market in the EU,. Do you honestly think you have a say? The EU could not allow the UK to leave, under any circumstances. I will tell you right now, the UK will NOT leave the EU.

The Eu does what it wants. and it keeps doing it until it gets everything it wants. remember the Lisbon treaty? what did they do, they made Ireland have referendums over and over until they approved it. So even if the UK did vote to leave the Eu, then you've have referendums until you joined again. That's how the Eu works. You can vote to leave, and then you'll have to vote every single year after that until the EU gets the result they want.

The EU isn't going anywhere, accept it. You're stuck.

[InOne]

I keep hearing Britain being in the EU benefits America. So not really surprised on your stance lostalex...

[Livia]

ok you need to understand something. the UK is a huge market in the EU,. Do you honestly think you have a say? The EU could not allow the UK to leave, under any circumstances. I will tell you right now, the UK will NOT leave the EU.

The Eu does what it wants. and it keeps doing it until it gets everything it wants. remember the Lisbon treaty? what did they do, they made Ireland have referendums over and over until they approved it. So even if the UK did vote to leave the Eu, then you've have referendums until you joined again. That's how the Eu works. You can vote to leave, and then you'll have to vote every single year after that until the EU gets the result they want.

The EU isn't going anywhere, accept it. You're stuck.

I think you've got it a little ass-upwards there, Alex. Ireland held the referendums, not he EU. The EU wouldn't hold the UK referendum, the UK would. We voted to join, we can vote to leave. It's not like the Mafia.

Well, it's not a lot like the Mafia.

Okay, it's a bit like the Mafia... but we can still choose to leave if the public says we should and there wouldn't be a thing the EU could do about it.

[Kizzy]

However, we would not be invited to any ace europarties...so we stay in :)

[joeysteele]

I don't understand why David Cameron cannot get on with whatever negotiations he wants to do right now,he would get support from Parliament for such negotiations and he could then hold the referendum on the same day as the next General Election if he was really serious as to this.

Why wait for to get an overall majority anyway for another 2+ years and then take another 2+ years to do any negotiations with the EU.

He says, the questions will be do you support the UK remaining in the EU on the new deal negotiated by the Govt, or coming out.

If he gets no deal at all, does he still hold the referendum, he says he favours staying in the EU,even now, so would he recommend remaining in if no new deal of any worth was the result.

Quite frankly, I think the promise of a referendum will end up being as shallow as his promise of no top to bottom,across the board reforms of the NHS in this Parliament.

In any event I would vote for staying in on what currently feel as to the EU and I doubt in any campaign in over 4 years time that I would learn anything of real significance from either those campaigning or from our biased media that would change my mind on that.

Reading through the history of the Common Market and the EU, the then Consrvative Govt in the early 70s took us into the Common Market with no reference back to the voters whatsoever either by referendum or election so if that was possible then, I see no reason whatsoever for David Cameron to hold back from re-negotiating now for a deal he states is extremely important.

Why should he have to get an overall majority for one policy before he will do something about it when likely his party will be presenting far more extreme and further heartless policies alongside that one policy.
It has an unsavoury smell to his whole plan, for me anyway, as to this now.

[the truth]

The British people elect politicians who take decisions on our behalf on a daily basis. This is no different.

Not many people are interested in politics or watching QT, but most of the country would spout a load of bollocks about Europe controlling our country to send money to Greece.

And you of course know better than the whole country? right? wrong
to write off the views of 62 million brits is arrogant at best, ignorant at worst.
everyone has their own individual situations and experiences. some will be personal, some business related, some may be bigoted...etc but everyone has right to an opinion.

I think the european union is a total fiasco. obviously you think thats me reading the daily mail, its not. the sheer volume of stupid laws that cripple business in this country is overwhelming. perhaps you shouldnt be allowed to vote as you seem to have so little respect from your fellow brit and so little grasp on how the european monolith has destroyed british businesses

[Livia]

And you of course know better than the whole country? right? wrong
to write off the views of 62 million brits is arrogant at best, ignorant at worst.
everyone has their own individual situations and experiences. some will be personal, some business related, some may be bigoted...etc but everyone has right to an opinion.

I think the european union is a total fiasco. obviously you think thats me reading the daily mail, its not. the sheer volume of stupid laws that cripple business in this country is overwhelming. perhaps you shouldnt be allowed to vote as you seem to have so little respect from your fellow brit and so little grasp on how the european monolith has destroyed british businesses

Perhaps you're the one who shouldn't be allowed to vote as you continually get fundamental things so very wrong.

Not all of those 62 million Brits you mention are eligable to vote, it's more like 40 million. And of those 40 million, only 40% can actually be arsed to go and actually vote, the rest don't bother. So I wouldn't be singing the praises of the great British electorate too loudly if I were you.

[lostalex]

I think you've got it a little ass-upwards there, Alex. Ireland held the referendums, not he EU. The EU wouldn't hold the UK referendum, the UK would. We voted to join, we can vote to leave. It's not like the Mafia.

Well, it's not a lot like the Mafia.

Okay, it's a bit like the Mafia... but we can still choose to leave if the public says we should and there wouldn't be a thing the EU could do about it.


my point is. even if you did vote to leave, then the government would find a way to make you vote over and over and over again, until you voted to join again. DO you honestly think if you vote to leave then that'd be the end of it? no, they'd come up with a new referendem and find a way to get the British people to approve rejoining the EU, just like the Ireland voted over and over and over again until they approved the Lisbon treaty, that was my point.

[the truth]

Perhaps you're the one who shouldn't be allowed to vote as you continually get fundamental things so very wrong.

Not all of those 62 million Brits you mention are eligable to vote, it's more like 40 million. And of those 40 million, only 40% can actually be arsed to go and actually vote, the rest don't bother. So I wouldn't be singing the praises of the great British electorate too loudly if I were you.

firstly I wasnt talking to you I think hes big enough to speak for himself
secondly I didnt say all 62 million voted so you got that wrong again
some people dont vote because they dont feel any candidate is worthy , thats their democratic choice, who are you to judge them?
fourthly I didnt sing anyone praises
fifthly Im not allowed to speak my genuine opinions on you because youre in with the moderators and I get banned for opinions youre allowed to give

[lostalex]

firstly I wasnt talking to you I think hes big enough to speak for himself
secondly I didnt say all 62 million voted so you got that wrong again
some people dont vote because they dont feel any candidate is worthy , thats their democratic choice, who are you to judge them?
fourthly I didnt sing anyone praises
fifthly Im not allowed to speak my genuine opinions on you because youre in with the moderators and I get banned for opinions youre allowed to give

Firstly you WERE talking to her, because you posted your comment on the forum, to ALL of us, so stop being snarky and rude. try responding to people in a civilized way please/

kthanx.

[the truth]

Firstly you WERE talking to her, because you posted your comment on the forum, to ALL of us, so stop being snarky and rude. try responding to people in a civilized way please/

kthanx.

no I wasnt and I wasnt talking to you either, I was talking directly to another poster, so stop being snarky and keep your nose out and try to respond to people in a civilized way please.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/2/8/220317/default/v4/ft-1-329x437.jpg

Well Done PM David Cameron.

[Kizzy]

Don't get your hopes up It hasn't been sanctioned yet...

[Livia]

firstly I wasnt talking to you I think hes big enough to speak for himself
secondly I didnt say all 62 million voted so you got that wrong again
some people dont vote because they dont feel any candidate is worthy , thats their democratic choice, who are you to judge them?
fourthly I didnt sing anyone praises
fifthly Im not allowed to speak my genuine opinions on you because youre in with the moderators and I get banned for opinions youre allowed to give

It's a forum. I don't have to be invited to speak. You were wrong on a few points so I pointed out the errors. You're still wrong on a few points.

While I accept that some people don't vote because they don't support any of the candidates, mostly it's apathy. Pointing that out isn't judging them. If they can't be bothered to vote they can hardly moan about what happens.

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/9/1360407147632/David-Simonds-cartoon-on--001.jpg

[lostalex]

I think it's strange that Scotland needs PERMISSION to hold a vote on their own independence. It's a joke.

If Scotland really wanted to be independent, they wouldn't ask ENGLAND for permission to have a vote.

Scotland is not going to leave the UK. If they really wanted to leave the UK they wouldn't ask permission. You don't need to ask permission to be free. If you want to be free, then you declare yourself free, and you fight anyone who tries to stop you.

[MTVN]

What's that got to do with the EU referendum

[lostalex]

What's that got to do with the EU referendum

well if Scotland is Independent, they'd presumably have to have their own referendum on whether or not to join the EU, right?

I wonder since Cameron has promised both an In or Out vote for the EU and an IN or Out vote for Scotland, which one comes first?

[MTVN]

The Scottish referendum will be at the end of 2014, the EU one will be sometime after 2015 and even then only if the Conservatives have a majority government which is unlikely. Not sure what would happen with an independent Scotland and the EU, they'd probably have to go through a pretty lengthy process of applying and negotiating for membership, but the SNP are in favour of it

[the truth]

the scots economy has grown steadily for years, their education system is also considered one of the best , theyre second only to greater london in gdp per head....where the northern irish and welsh are way behind and the gap is growing. so clearly the scots are doing something right compared to these other Uk nations and regions. is it the fact they have more automony over their financial, legal and tax affairs?