Gay couples can not raise children safely - Conservative MP

[arista]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02482/David-Jones-welsh_2482403b.jpg
Mr Jones said he did not believe he was homophobic


[The Tory MP, who voted against the Government's plans to introduce gay marriage in the Commons last week, made his remarks to ITV Wales's Face To Face programme.
Shadow Welsh secretary Owen Smith blasted the comments as evidence that the "nasty party is alive and well under David Cameron". ]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9873237/Welsh-Secretary-criticised-after-claiming-gay-couples-can-not-raise-children-safely.html



No its not the PM's view.
Jones MP is stuck in the past

[Niall]

What a horrible, horrible man. I'd like to know his reasons for his view. Maybe then we'll see who's homophobic.

(Although anything that gets the Conservatives negative publicity is a good thing however.)

[Black Dagger]

But teenagers can...

What a beastly creature.

[joeysteele]

He is entitled to his view,even though I think him completely wrong and disagree 100% with him.
His closed view of this issue, that is if he has been quoted correctly, leaves me with the thought that is also very worrying that he holds any Ministerial postion at all.

[AnnieK]

Since when did sexuality define the kind of environment that can be provided to children?? It was a ridiculous thing to say. Can a jobless teenager provide a safer environment, or a mother and father in a domestic violence situation etc..etc.. His reasoning is crazy...

[arista]

He is entitled to his view,even though I think him completely wrong and disagree 100% with him.
His closed view of this issue, that is if he has been quoted correctly, leaves me with the thought that is also very worrying that he holds any Ministerial postion at all.


Its taken from ITV Wales Face to Face prog
so only shown in wales.

[Amy Jade]

What an idiot, he is clearly out of touch and ignorant.

He is obviously homophobic to brand all gay coupled in such a way, there are good and bad parents everywhere, sexuality should not even be discussed when raising children.

[arista]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/15/gay-couples-children-welsh-secretary

Watch video of him on ITV Wales


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2279252/Tory-MP-David-Jones-deluded-saying-gay-couple-raise-children-says-Angela-Eagle-MP.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
longer video clip on here Joey

[Kizzy]

Since when did sexuality define the kind of environment that can be provided to children?? It was a ridiculous thing to say. Can a jobless teenager provide a safer environment, or a mother and father in a domestic violence situation etc..etc.. His reasoning is crazy...

What's so bad about jobless teenagers? It's impossible to defend one demographic by slighting another.

[AnnieK]

What's so bad about jobless teenagers? It's impossible to defend one demographic by slighting another.

I didn't intend to slight a demographic Kizzy, my question was can a jobless teenager provide a safer environment that a gay couple...the answer is one cannot say as it is down to the individual parenting skills so you cannot sweepingly say that gay couples can not provide a safe envirnoment.. I found it a ridiculous arguement and was trying to provide an analogy...

[lily.]

This lot seem to be doing okay..

http://www.babyrazzi.com/files/2012/08/elton-john-neil-patrick-harris-kids-photos-vacation-6.jpg

Also, can I just point out that babies born for gay couples are never an 'accident', they're always wanted and planned.

Not that all unplanned babies are unwanted, but the way I figure it is that if someone goes to that much effort to plan a child, then they're ready for the responsibility of raising it.

[AnnieK]

This lot seem to be doing okay..

http://www.babyrazzi.com/files/2012/08/elton-john-neil-patrick-harris-kids-photos-vacation-6.jpg

Aw yep, I'd say they all look pretty happy and content and safe environment providers....

Do you think the dads all co-ordinated their tops and shades?

[lily.]

I think NPH and David tend to be stylish, but Elton just does his own thing. lol

[Withano]

I agree that it is harder for gay couples to create a safe environment, children would be born into a world where strangers instantly hate their parents. UK definitely isn't the most homophobic country but it is nowhere near the most accepting.
He never really goes onto say why he has these views in the video but if his reasons are 'narrow minded people like me will make it near enough impossible for you to create a safe environment' I can see his point..

[Shaun]

i'm sure there're strangers who hate him right now, maybe we should strip him of his right to parenthood :idc:

[Withano]

i'm sure there're strangers who hate him right now, maybe we should strip him of his right to parenthood :idc:

Would have been a good point if you reworded it, otherwise its just hypocritical

[Shaun]

I'm saying that it's not a good point at all, if we stripped people of their right to adopt because someone hates them.

[Withano]

I'm saying that it's not a good point at all, if we stripped people of their right to adopt because someone hates them.

Ahh, didn't read the sarcasm,
I think you're right without it though, this man is clearly a knob. And if he was saying all of this because the UK isn't a safe place for a gay family, I think the same could be said for hundreds of people and put his only argument to rest

[Kizzy]

I didn't intend to slight a demographic Kizzy, my question was can a jobless teenager provide a safer environment that a gay couple...the answer is one cannot say as it is down to the individual parenting skills so you cannot sweepingly say that gay couples can not provide a safe envirnoment.. I found it a ridiculous arguement and was trying to provide an analogy...

''Can a jobless teenager provide a safer environment, or a mother and father in a domestic violence situation''

In this analogy one can and one can't.

[AnnieK]

''Can a jobless teenager provide a safer environment, or a mother and father in a domestic violence situation''

In this analogy one can and one can't.

So you are saying categorically that a jobless teenager can provide a safer environment than a gay couple?

My point being that no one would come out and say a teeneager should not have the right to children but it's acceptable to say it about a gay couple?

[Kizzy]

So you are saying categorically that a jobless teenager can provide a safer environment than a gay couple?

My point being that no one would come out and say a teeneager should not have the right to children but it's acceptable to say it about a gay couple?

I'm not saying anything annie you are, are you saying catagorically that they can't?

Some might say that yes, and no it's not acceptable to say this about anyone. You should always judge everyone on their individual merits to avoid stereotyping.

[AnnieK]

No I have been very careful about saying nothing categorically.. I said "can" a jobless teenager etc...not that anyone could. I'm not being tetchy her Kizzy and apologise if it comes across that way but I spent many years in infertility clinics, having rounds of failed treatments and know the absolute heartbreak of being unable to have children and all that it entails and so I get very passionate about anyone who tries to say anyone should not have the right to children, particularly on the grounds of something like sexuality...I appreciate that is not what YOU are saying are by the way..

[Kizzy]

Ah, maybe our wires were crossed a little. It is very frustrating to see those who are parents and neither want nor care for their children when there are those like yourself and same sex couples with love to give annie. :hug:

[AnnieK]

Ah, maybe our wires were crossed a little. It is very frustrating to see those who are parents and neither want nor care for their children when there are those like yourself and same sex couples with love to give annie. :hug:

Yeah, I thought we were debating the same point :joker:.. Thanks Kizzy, it is very frustrating...

[Kizzy]

Yeah, I thought we were debating the same point :joker:.. Thanks Kizzy, it is very frustrating...

Yes, using teenage parents in the same sentence as abusive parents threw me a little as it gave a negative connotation.
but we managed to peice together what you meant like a jigsaw...now they are frustrating :joker:

[bbfan1991]

What a horrible, bigoted thing to say.

As long as gay couples can provide a safe loving environment where these children can flourish, then it does not matter about the sexuality of the couple looking after them.

[Ammi]

..unfortunately I still don't think it's easy for gay couples to adopt, I know a couple who recently went through the whole process, only to be told that they should wait longer, when there didn't seem any reason for that decision...very heartbreaking for them, I have no idea whether the same would have been said to a heterosexual couple....

[AnnieK]

..unfortunately I still don't think it's easy for gay couples to adopt, I know a couple who recently went through the whole process, only to be told that they should wait longer, when there didn't seem any reason for that decision...very heartbreaking for them, I have no idea whether the same would have been said to a heterosexual couple....

The adoption process is long and arduous...I had looked into it at great depth during my time of having problems and had initial meetings...they look into every single aspect of your life, your upbringing, talk to friends and family, do loads of assessments and then a board of people get to decide your fate....it's such a painful and heartbreaking journey that they more or less put you off before you start....I was told to wait (although before the process started properly) because it was too soon after a failed treatment. There were other couples who were told to lose weight before they were considered but there was a gay couple who did start the process....I don't know if they were approved or not but I think most couples go through the wringer in the process....I was just lucky that I have since had my miracle (although it the whole cycle did cost me my relationship)...

[Ammi]

The adoption process is long and arduous...I had looked into it at great depth during my time of having problems and had initial meetings...they look into every single aspect of your life, your upbringing, talk to friends and family, do loads of assessments and then a board of people get to decide your fate....it's such a painful and heartbreaking journey that they more or less put you off before you start....I was told to wait (although before the process started properly) because it was too soon after a failed treatment. There were other couples who were told to lose weight before they were considered but there was a gay couple who did start the process....I don't know if they were approved or not but I think most couples go through the wringer in the process....I was just lucky that I have since had my miracle (although it the whole cycle did cost me my relationship)...



..yeah, I'm sure it's not easy for any couple Annie..it's a very long and intrusive process...the gay couple I knew went rhrough the whole thing, it took a very long time and was obviously a huge emotional journey for them as well...they have everything in place, home, careers etc..obviously, they thought it would all lead to adopting their family..(they don't want a baby but two slightly older children)...they were told that it would be best to have lived in their home for around two years or so first,....but no other explanation was given...hmmm, that may have been the same for anyone, I know...it just seems like a flimsy reason....

[AnnieK]

..yeah, I'm sure it's not easy for any couple Annie..it's a very long and intrusive process...the gay couple I knew went rhrough the whole thing, it took a very long time and was obviously a huge emotional journey for them as well...they have everything in place, home, careers etc..obviously, they thought it would all lead to adopting their family..(they don't want a baby but two slightly older children)...they were told that it would be best to have lived in their home for around two years or so first,....but no other explanation was given...hmmm, that may have been the same for anyone, I know...it just seems like a flimsy reason....

Yeah, that does seem flimsy TBH Ammi....must have been devastating....

[Ammi]

Yeah, that does seem flimsy TBH Ammi....must have been devastating....

..yeah, it's very upsetting for them but they'll wait..there isn't anything else they can do...maybe they're children just aren't there for them yet but when they are, they won't have better parents....:love:

[AnnieK]

..yeah, it's very upsetting for them but they'll wait..there isn't anything else they can do...maybe they're children just aren't there for them yet but when they are, they won't have better parents....:love:

I found that the hardest part of my "journey" knowing I would love a child unconditionally and then hearing atrocities on the news etc of people hurting and neglecting children....you're right, their children will come hopefully and when they do they will cherish them even more....it's such a shame as they wanted older children and adopters are in short demand for older and sibling groups....I hope it works out for them :love:

[Annie]

Having two gay dads would be totally fabulous... especially if you ended up being able to sing like Rachel Berry :love:

[Ammi]

I found that the hardest part of my "journey" knowing I would love a child unconditionally and then hearing atrocities on the news etc of people hurting and neglecting children....you're right, their children will come hopefully and when they do they will cherish them even more....it's such a shame as they wanted older children and adopters are in short demand for older and sibling groups....I hope it works out for them :love:



..yeah, that was the thing as well..they want older siblings not babies and it must be harder to place two or three siblings in a loving home..they both work with children as well..they would be perfect parents..and will be one day I'm sure..it's a shame they had to go through the whole process and then have to wait another few years though....

[the truth]

I didn't intend to slight a demographic Kizzy, my question was can a jobless teenager provide a safer environment that a gay couple...the answer is one cannot say as it is down to the individual parenting skills so you cannot sweepingly say that gay couples can not provide a safe envirnoment.. I found it a ridiculous arguement and was trying to provide an analogy...

you argued against generalizations about groups of people, by using a generalization about a dfferent group of people.

when deciding who adopts children all factors are taken into account, economics, employment, stable relationships, health, criminal record, education, everything...hes percetly entitled to his opinion, though he does seem to have worded it very poorly...the figures show gay couples are less stable than hetrosexual ones on average,also that a child with a mother and a father has a better chance of a successful life, but its absurd to say its the case for all couples?.ive not studied this subject so I dont know who is best suited, obviously a warm caring loving honest decent person sounds like essential prerequisites to me. I do wonder if part of his quote has been deliberately left out by trouble making journalists though

[AnnieK]

you argued against generalizations about groups of people, by using a generalization about a dfferent group of people.

when deciding who adopts children all factors are taken into account, economics, employment, stable relationships, health, criminal record, education, everything...hes percetly entitled to his opinion, though he does seem to have worded it very poorly...the figures show gay couples are less stable than hetrosexual ones on average,also that a child with a mother and a father has a better chance of a successful life, but its absurd to say its the case for all couples?.ive not studied this subject so I dont know who is best suited, obviously a warm caring loving honest decent person sounds like essential prerequisites to me. I do wonder if part of his quote has been deliberately left out by trouble making journalists though

If you had read my other posts you will see that admittedly I did not state my case very well but I do believe that parenting skills have nothing to do with sexuality and I do have experience in the whole subject of adoption etc

...the bit in bold, I do wholeheartedly agree with...

[the truth]

If you had read my other posts you will see that admittedly I did not state my case very well but I do believe that parenting skills have nothing to do with sexuality and I do have experience in the whole subject of adoption etc

...the bit in bold, I do wholeheartedly agree with...

its on a case by case basis, if he said what he said the way he said I disagree with him....I wouldnt be suprised if our hysterical media edited his comments but I dont know for sure.

[lostalex]

I already say everything i have to say on the Guardian article about this, but needless to say, i was outraged.