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Benjamin
04-03-2013, 01:02 AM
Obviously the scandal has been that the horse meat has been found in foods that should be beef, but is there anything wrong with eating horse meat if you know what it is and would you?

Just read an article about some trendy French restaurants putting horse back on their menus.

Recent headlines about horsemeat have led Europe's consumers to give some "beef" products a wide berth - but horse has long been enjoyed in some European countries. In Paris, fashionable chefs have actually been putting it back on their menus. So will more diners now be jumping for the horse tartare?

Would you willingly give your children horsemeat hamburgers for their tea?

The answer to that in most of the English-speaking world, even before the latest mislabelling tailspin, would have been an emphatic nay. To which the horses would no doubt respond with a grateful one of their own.

In France, the response would be more guarded. French horse-meat consumption has been in decline for decades, and today accounts for just 0.4% of all meat eaten.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

My mission is to tell the world that you can sit on your meat and eat it too”

Jean-Guillaume Dufour Restaurateur

But there are still 750 horse-butchers operating in the country, 17% of the population claim to have eaten horse at some time or another, and around 11,000 farmers continue to raise horses for the meat trade.

Professionals say they believe the worst of the decline is over. For the last two years horse-eating has been - excuse the pun - stable.

"We have had to endure a lot of attacks," says Yves Berger, president of the National Association of Meat-Producers Interbev. "Every year our opponents mount major publicity campaigns to tell people not to eat horse."

"But what we have noticed is the effect of these campaigns is diminishing. More and more, we see that people want to keep an open mind about eating horse - which is as it should be."
Horse meat consumption in France

Coinciding with - and possibly contributing to - this stabilisation of the market is a new gastro-trend among Paris foodies.

A handful of chefs have started putting horse on their menus. Go to Les Tontons, for example, opposite the former Paris horse abattoir in the 15th arrondissement, and you can be served a succulent horse tartare (raw horse with egg and seasoning).

"Of course, it is perfectly apt because the original steak tartare was horse. The Mongol tribesmen ate their own horses and tenderised the steak under their saddles," says owner Jean-Guillaume Dufour.

Actually there is no historical evidence for this, but who wants to spoil a good story?

"My mission is to tell the world that you can sit on your meat and eat it too," he enthuses.

"Yes I know horses are pretty and friendly and so on. But cows would be, too, if we let them."

Other hip restaurants - such as Le Taxi Jaune, Le Verre Vole and Septime - serve horse carpaccio, horse hamburgers with quail's eggs, or straightforward horse steaks.
Horse meat cuts

One chef, Bertrand Grebaut, caused a minor sensation at a recent culinary event when he carved and cooked a horse's heart - live on a big screen - in front of an audience of fellow cooks and food-writers.

"There's definitely something going on - a kind of buzz," says Dorian Nieto, food blogger, horse-meat aficionado, and author of La boucherie chevaline etait ouverte le lundi (The horse-butcher was open on Mondays), a celebration of horse-eating.
Horsemeat consumption in EU

"A number of restaurateurs have told me they are checking out where to buy top-quality horsemeat. It's all about a return to old values, a kind of nostalgia. And yes it is all rather trendy and Parisian. But there's a frisson, no question about it."

Given how strongly identified France is with the practice of horse-eating, the history of l'hippophagie is actually quite short.

In the Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815) it is said that - by necessity rather than desire - French soldiers developed a certain taste for cheval.

But it was only in 1866 that horse-eating was permitted by law. Thanks to an alliance of nutritionists, social reformers and, funnily enough, animal welfare supporters, the practice was actively promoted.

The 1870-71 siege of Paris by invading Prussians was a turning-point. Many people tasted horse for the first time, as thousands of the animals were slaughtered. It turned out they quite liked it.
Continue reading the main story
Nutritional facts
A butcher preparing meat

Horsemeat contains essential amino acids and polyunsaturated fats that help to reduce cholesterol.

Compared with other types of meat, it contains greater quantities of trace elements: calcium, phosphorus, iron, sodium, copper, magnesium, silicon, zinc and nickel.

It is rich in group B, A, PP and E vitamins.

Source: UNECE

In the decades that followed l'hippophagie became increasingly popular, with a peak in 1911. Around this time, horses began to be imported because the French market was unable to supply enough.

Horse consumption was essentially a habit of the urban working and middle classes. Country people and the rich who had closer contact with the animals were more liable to feel qualms.

And overwhelmingly horse-eating was based in two regions - the north and around Paris.

After World War II the decline set in, and it became precipitate from the 1980s. Today, it is noticeable that most clients at boucheries chevalines are in their 60s or older, suggesting that young people find the practice difficult to stomach.

However butchers like Fabien Ouazan, who has a stall on the Cours de Vincennes market in Paris - are convinced the qualities of horsemeat will ensure its survival.

"With horsemeat, you know what you get," he says. "Other animals get fed all kinds of rubbish, but horses eat only oats, barley and hay.

"It shows in the meat. So a lot of people who are concerned about health and the quality of meat, are turning to the horse."
Horsemeat production

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65828000/gif/_65828778_horse_meat_cuts_624.gif

Another argument for eating horse is suggested by Otis Lebert, chef at Le Taxi Jaune.

"A lot of horse breeds are disappearing. We no longer have any use for draught horses, for example, or the ponies that went down the mines," he says.

"So either we let these breeds die out. Or we preserve them, by eating them."

According to Yves Berger of Interbev, large parts of the French countryside are maintained by small-scale farmers breeding draught horses for the meat market.

"Without these horses, the fields would go back to forest," he says.

France produces roughly what it consumes in the way of horsemeat (18,000 tonnes a year).

But, in fact, most of the meat that is reared in France is not eaten there, but exported to Italy - the Italians (who actually eat more than twice as much horsemeat as the French) like young horses.

Meanwhile the French - who prefer older, redder horse-meat - import most of what they eat from the US and Canada, where it is not eaten by humans but is sometimes fed to pets.

At Fabien Ouazan's stall, the enthusiasm of the customers is catching. Evidently, none has the slightest queasiness about their choice of nutrition.

"I have been eating horse since I was a child," says one lady. "It is very tender, no fat, and full of minerals.

"Why should I care that it is a horse? We eat chickens, we eat cuddly rabbits and baby lambs. What's the difference?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21324523

Josy
04-03-2013, 01:04 AM
No but it's the fact that the horse meat contained bute thats why there was so much fuss about it I think.

Benjamin
04-03-2013, 01:05 AM
Oh, I understand that. But in general is there anything wrong with eating horse meat and would you?

Josy
04-03-2013, 01:08 AM
Hmmm I don't think I would it would just seem strange to me.

Kizzy
04-03-2013, 01:10 AM
I have had horse in france didn't care for it, tasted like tinny pork.

Jake.
04-03-2013, 01:11 AM
I just find it strange and wrong.. people say 'meat is meat', well if that's the case would you fry a cat?

Smithy
04-03-2013, 01:12 AM
I honestly do not see the big deal (I can see why people get pissed as them passing off beef for horse (as you would if someone said fish was chicken)) but eating horse doesn't really bother me :shrug:

Withano
04-03-2013, 01:16 AM
13 looks good

MTVN
04-03-2013, 01:27 AM
Nah I don't see a problem with it, just because it's considered a strange meat to eat in this country doesn't mean that other cultures see it the same way. If I was eating in a country where it was an acceptable form of meat and on the menu then I might give it a try, when in Rome and all that

Roy Mars III
04-03-2013, 01:40 AM
Nothing wrong with it

Ramsay
04-03-2013, 01:47 AM
Cuz it'll turn you into one !!!1111!!!1

Benjamin
04-03-2013, 03:44 AM
Cuz it'll turn you into one !!!1111!!!1

But then you'd be hung like a horse.

Ammi
04-03-2013, 03:46 AM
..I don't eat meat, so obviously no..but if I did..(and the rest of my family do..)..I don't think I would object to eating horsemeat so much as being lied to about what I was eating and thinking that if that was the case, then what else is in the products that I don't know about and whether it's harmful...food in general is expensive and some people have to think very carefully about their budget, so people have a right to know what they put into their bodies and make their own decisions about that...

lostalex
04-03-2013, 04:58 AM
it looks delicious.

There's nothing wrong with eating horse meat aslong as you are told that it's horse meat.

just like there's nothing wrong with eating cat meat, but if i order from a chinese place and think i'm getting beef, and it's actually cat, that is wrong.

Aslong as it's properly labeled and there is no deception, there's nothing wrong with eating any kind of meat.

20 years ago people in western countries thought eating raw fish was weird/gross. now sushi is just normal.

Me. I Am Salman
04-03-2013, 07:52 AM
So you'd be fine to eat anything as long as it resembles meat? No wonder vegetarians find meat eaters sickening

Lee.
04-03-2013, 08:04 AM
I don't have a problem with eating horse, but I don't like not actually knowing what I'm eating. If there's horse in our food chain, what else is there that we don't know about?

Because of the **** they pump cows full of, I only eat organic beef and drink organic milk, but it does make me question how organic it actually is?

arista
04-03-2013, 08:07 AM
Oh, I understand that. But in general is there anything wrong with eating horse meat and would you?



Yes I want to see Horse Burgers
with no Bute in them.



They are not like Dogs


So Eating Horse Steak
in France is Fine




Capt Remy
come back - this thread needs you

Jesus.
04-03-2013, 08:09 AM
I've eaten horsemeat a few times, and there is nothing wrong with. It's nowhere near the most offensive thing they serve in France as anyone who's ever ordered tete de veaux will tell you.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRE54EKLR10JMfRe1KxeNru_9ei7wafU yaFKPGZHQ4n4U_mfVhNnQ

Me. I Am Salman
04-03-2013, 08:10 AM
I just find it strange and wrong.. people say 'meat is meat', well if that's the case would you fry a cat?

Yeah this, and if someone cooked you a human liver you better eat that too

None of this emotional attachment BS, finding the idea of eating horse disgusting because you're not accustomed to it is related to emotions too

Honestly the way some people are treating this scandal is pathetic.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 08:52 AM
So you'd be fine to eat anything as long as it resembles meat? No wonder vegetarians find meat eaters sickening I'm not following you. Vegetarians find us sickening because we eat animals, what does it matter to them which animals we are eating? According to them eating any animal is wrong, right?

But it's funny how they stil eat things that are meant to look like or taste like meat. If they were so offended by eating meat, why do they eat so many products that are meant to replicate or mimic the taste of meat?

lostalex
04-03-2013, 08:59 AM
I wonder why vegetarians eat things that look like and taste like meat. They buy "vegetarian sausages". Why are you buying and eating things that are trying to look like and taste like meat if you find meat so offensive??

Jesus.
04-03-2013, 09:01 AM
The most offensive thing they serve in France is the attitude.

French people are awesome. Sorry. They are, if their government does something they don't like, they take to the streets, they set up blockades, and fight it head on.

America has a Glenn Beck rally, and we're even worse, we don't even do that. We just moan to our friends about stuff.

French people are better than all of us.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 09:04 AM
French people are awesome. Sorry. They are, if their government does something they don't like, they take to the streets, they set up blockades, and fight it head on.

America has a Glenn Beck rally, and we're even worse, we don't even do that. We just moan to our friends about stuff.

French people are better than all of us.

really? have you seen the rise of the French National Front? Marie Le Penn is a facist bitch. If you think that is good, well i'm not allowed to say what i think about that. They tried to sue Madonna. so ****** them. There is a very loud and popular racist uprising in France right now.

France is part of southern Europe now, imho.

LemonJam
04-03-2013, 09:12 AM
I wonder why vegetarians eat things that look like and taste like meat. They buy "vegetarian sausages". Why are you buying and eating things that are trying to look like and taste like meat if you find meat so offensive??

Perhaps because, y'know, it doesn't kill an animal in the process.

Munchkins
04-03-2013, 09:14 AM
Well no theres nothing "wrong" with eating it, it's just a matter of moral conscience. Considering i have rode horses before etc, my auntie has one i wouldn't feel comfortable eating a domesticated pet i am used to, same as i wouldn't feel comfortable with a dog/cat/rabbit

lostalex
04-03-2013, 09:19 AM
Perhaps because, y'know, it doesn't kill an animal in the process.

ic, so you find killing and eating meat very offensive, but you find PRETENDING to eat meat okay?

so you find the IDEA of eating meat okay...you acknowledge that meat tastes good and that it's delicious, you just don't want any of the guilt that goes along with it?

you never see any vegetarian food that advertizes "we don't taste like meat at all, we taste totally like vegetables!" lol

I just find it hilarious that vegetarian food is always trying to taste like meat. but vegetarians claim that eating meat is so repulsive, but they are buying food that claims to taste like meat.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 09:23 AM
it really is hypocritical.

Jesus.
04-03-2013, 09:28 AM
really? have you seen the rise of the French National Front? Marie Le Penn is a facist bitch. If you think that is good, well i'm not allowed to say what i think about that. They tried to sue Madonna. so ****** them. There is a very loud and popular racist uprising in France right now.

France is part of southern Europe now, imho.

So what? I don't hate all Austrians because of Hitler. They have a growing extreme right, so does most of Europe because of austerity. The rise of the right is a cyclical event that naturally happens.

We have the BNP, and you have the tea party, militias, John Birchers, McCarthyism, The minute men, and have far more racist people than every other western country. Doesn't make your whole population into fascists.

I don't want this to be a you vs us, as there are too many of those, but the right in Europe is not a serious long term issue.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 09:31 AM
So what? I don't hate all Austrians because of Hitler. They have a growing extreme right, so does most of Europe because of austerity. The rise of the right is a cyclical event that naturally happens.

We have the BNP, and you have the tea party, militias, John Birchers, McCarthyism, The minute men, and have far more racist people than every other western country. Doesn't make your whole population into fascists.

I don't want this to be a you vs us, as there are too many of those, but the right in Europe is not a serious long term issue.

the tea party is not a political party. but since you mention it, didn't the UKIP win some seats this week? hmmm.

Munchkins
04-03-2013, 09:31 AM
I only eat Chicken & Fish anyway, so it doesn't affect me, i don't touch any other meat

lostalex
04-03-2013, 09:32 AM
I only eat Chicken & Fish anyway, so it doesn't affect me, i don't touch any other meat
I'm with you. I've never been a fan of red meat myself.

Jesus.
04-03-2013, 09:41 AM
the tea party is not a political party. but since you mention it, didn't the UKIP win some seats this week? hmmm.

The tea party is part of the republican party, and holds extreme influence over the country with hostage taking over debt limits/ sequestration. The tea party also holds the non-extremist members of the house hostage with threats of primaries.

UKip didn't win any seats, they just increased their vote.

Munchkins
04-03-2013, 09:43 AM
I'm with you. I've never been a fan of red meat myself.

I find Red meat really really repulsive :hugesmile:

LemonJam
04-03-2013, 09:45 AM
ic, so you find killing and eating meat very offensive, but you find PRETENDING to eat meat okay?

so you find the IDEA of eating meat okay...you acknowledge that meat tastes good and that it's delicious, you just don't want any of the guilt that goes along with it?

you never see any vegetarian food that advertizes "we don't taste like meat at all, we taste totally like vegetables!" lol

I just find it hilarious that vegetarian food is always trying to taste like meat. but vegetarians claim that eating meat is so repulsive, but they are buying food that claims to taste like meat.

...I think you're missing the point here and generalising vegetarians. I don't find people eating meat offensive. People can eat what they want and I'm never going to enforce my views on other people, and most vegetarians are like that, we just get a bad wrap in general thanks to peta and crazy online bloggers.

Yes, a vegetarian substitute such as Quorn is made to look and taste like meat, but the point in it is that no animal is killed in the production of the food and you're still getting protein and a lot of the nutrients found in meat. So yeah, in short "pretending to eat meat" is okay because it fulfils the vegetarian consensus that you're not eating an animal and I can't see the problem in that.

Lee.
04-03-2013, 09:46 AM
I try and limit my red meat consumption to once a week, but man, nothing beats a fillet steak with a pepper sauce, onion rings and mushrooms fried in garlic!

Oh and my chilli burritos are the dogs danglies!

Lee.
04-03-2013, 09:46 AM
Are you vegetarian James?

Jesus.
04-03-2013, 09:52 AM
I try and limit my red meat consumption to once a week, but man, nothing beats a fillet steak with a pepper sauce, onion rings and mushrooms fried in garlic!

Oh and my chilli burritos are the dogs danglies!

T-bones are better, as you get extra flavor from the bones.

Lee.
04-03-2013, 09:54 AM
T-bones are better, as you get extra flavor from the bones.

You know what, I've never tried a T bone before.

LemonJam
04-03-2013, 10:00 AM
Are you vegetarian James?

Yup. For about 7 years now. :)

Vanessa
04-03-2013, 10:04 AM
No, i don't think so. But not everyone likes it. My mum used to buy it sometimes.

Niamh.
04-03-2013, 10:08 AM
There's nothing wrong with it as long as you know that's what you're getting beforehand I think

lostalex
04-03-2013, 10:11 AM
If they are putting horse in our meat, imagine what they are putting in the vegetarian stuff :o

Me. I Am Salman
04-03-2013, 12:47 PM
I wonder why vegetarians eat things that look like and taste like meat. They buy "vegetarian sausages". Why are you buying and eating things that are trying to look like and taste like meat if you find meat so offensive??

They disagree with the way animals are treated/the processes. 'Free range' is only space bigger than an A4 size paper so even that's bad

lostalex
04-03-2013, 12:59 PM
They disagree with the way animals are treated/the processes. 'Free range' is only space bigger than an A4 size paper so even that's bad

but they don't disagree with the way meat tastes? lol

you don't see how that's incredibly hypocritical?

We totally LOVE how animal flesh tastes, We love the texture and flavor of animal meat, but we also think that eating animal flesh is barbaric and wrong!

Livia
04-03-2013, 01:29 PM
I have a problem eating horsemeat. Horses are not bred for meat in this country, and I only eat locally produced meat. Animal-rearing practices in parts of Europe - especially Eastern Europe - are barbaric and I would rather not support it. Also, if something is labelled "beef" and it turns out to be horse, that's against the law.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 01:44 PM
I have a problem eating horsemeat. Horses are not bred for meat in this country, and I only eat locally produced meat. Animal-rearing practices in parts of Europe - especially Eastern Europe - are barbaric and I would rather not support it. Also, if something is labelled "beef" and it turns out to be horse, that's against the law.

I respect your opinion. But i think you'd be shocked to learn the origins of everything else you eat and the practices of the companies that provide it to you. The Guardian did an interesting expose on the sources of organic Quinoa recently.

but i agree that the consumer does have a right to know what they are buying. We work hard for our money and we should have the right to know where it's going when we spend it.

LemonJam
04-03-2013, 01:48 PM
but they don't disagree with the way meat tastes? lol

you don't see how that's incredibly hypocritical?

We totally LOVE how animal flesh tastes, We love the texture and flavor of animal meat, but we also think that eating animal flesh is barbaric and wrong!

Again, you're pigeon-holing every vegetarian. Not all vegetarians eat these substitute products, and those that don't like meat obviously won't eat the stuff that tastes like meat. Shocking stuff, I know.

Anyway, you seem to keep missing the point that these products that are made as a meat substitute don't involve killing an animal and there's nothing hypocritical about that. If they were a vegetarian and wore leather frequently (which tbh a lot of vegetarians do) then that would be hypocritical as that's going against their ethics.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 01:54 PM
Again, you're pigeon-holing every vegetarian. Not all vegetarians eat these substitute products, and those that don't like meat obviously won't eat the stuff that tastes like meat. Shocking stuff, I know.

Anyway, you seem to keep missing the point that these products that are made as a meat substitute don't involve killing an animal and there's nothing hypocritical about that. If they were a vegetarian and wore leather frequently (which tbh a lot of vegetarians do) then that would be hypocritical as that's going against their ethics.

i know. i'm just giving you a hard time. I think think veganism should be like religion, it should be a personal choice.

I don't have a problem with your beliefs, i just really wish you didn't act so damn righteous and judgemental about it.

If you want to save animals lives, fine, go out to some ranches and buy every cow you can, and then take care of that cow and feed it, and give it a good life.

But unless you are willing to go buy all these cows and give them a better life on a farm some where.. then shut up and stop harassing people that don't believe the same things you do.

PETA and religious christian freaks have a lot in common in my humble opinion.

GO BUY A COW IF YOU LOVE THEM SO MUCH. No one's stopping you.

LemonJam
04-03-2013, 02:09 PM
i know. i'm just giving you a hard time. I think think veganism should be like religion, it should be a personal choice.

I don't have a problem with your beliefs, i just really wish you didn't act so damn righteous and judgemental about it.

If you want to save animals lives, fine, go out to some ranches and buy every cow you can, and then take care of that cow and feed it, and give it a good life.

But unless you are willing to go buy all these cows and give them a better life on a farm some where.. then shut up and stop harassing people that don't believe the same things you do.

PETA and religious christian freaks have a lot in common in my humble opinion.

GO BUY A COW IF YOU LOVE THEM SO MUCH. No one's stopping you.

Christ on a bike Alex you make such dumb statements sometimes I'm surprised you can still function.

I've never shoved my views in peoples faces. I'm just responding to completely ridiculous statements made by someone who obviously doesn't have a ****ing clue what they're talking about.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 02:20 PM
Christ on a bike Alex you make such dumb statements sometimes I'm surprised you can still function.


AHHhaha, i;m shocked too, everyday i wake up and i'm like, whoa, i'm still functioning. lol :elephant:

In your FACE haters!

lostalex
04-03-2013, 02:23 PM
I'm just responding to completely ridiculous statements made by someone who obviously doesn't have a ****ing clue what they're talking about.

i know what i'm talking about dude, i'm just saying, you wana be vegan cool, but don't force it down other people's throats and stop acting like you are a better person, or a more MORAL person just cause you don't eat meat.

Just don't eat meat and get on with it, and S tf U about it. plzzz.

If yu were a good vegan, i wouldn't even know that you were a vegan.

I dated a vegatarian once, and i didn't even know he was a vegetarian. I found out after we had broken up, it came up in some conversation, and i was like, whoa, when did yu become a vegetarian? and he was like "umm, I was a vegitarian while we were dating" and i was like, whoa i didn't even notice. Cause he wasn't a DIck about it.

Lee.
04-03-2013, 02:27 PM
Are you vegetarian James?

I have to say Alex, I speak to LJ quite often and I didnt know he was a vegetarian until today :)

LemonJam
04-03-2013, 02:27 PM
i know what i'm talking about dude, i'm just saying, you wana be vegan cool, but don't force it down other people's throats and stop acting like you are a better person, or a more MORAL person just cause you don't eat meat.

Just don't eat meat and get on with it, and S tf U about it. plzzz.

If yu were a good vegan, i wouldn't even know that you were a vegan.

I dated a vegatarian once, and i didn't even know he was a vegetarian. I found out after we had broken up, it came up in some conversation, and i was like, whoa, when do yu become a vegetarian? and he was like "umm, i was a vegitarian while we were dating" and i was like, whoa i didn't even notice. Cause he wasn't a DIck about it.

But I'm not ****ing forcing it down other peoples throats, I'm responding to your ****ing bull**** statements that you can't even defend so now you're making bull**** statements about me. Round of applause, ****ing pat on the back for you.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 02:29 PM
But I'm not ****ing forcing it down other peoples throats, I'm responding to your ****ing bull**** statements that you can't even defend so now you're making bull**** statements about me. Round of applause, ****ing pat on the back for you.

I don't see how i'm talking BS, i'm just saying, it's your personal choice(and i totally respect that), you shouldn't be making MORAL judgements on other people about it.

i dont think anyone should be making moral judgements about anyone else, period. so sorry if you feel i was singling you out, but i'm not.

LemonJam
04-03-2013, 02:33 PM
I'm not making moral judgements on other people, please find one post where I've done that.

My ex-girlfriend of 4 years wasn't vegetarian and I cooked meat for her, so that idea can **** right off.

lostalex
04-03-2013, 02:38 PM
I'm not making moral judgements on other people, please find one post where I've done that.

My ex-girlfriend of 4 years wasn't vegetarian and I cooked meat for her, so that idea can **** right off.

I wish i had a bf that would cook meat for me. :(