should the tax payer fund Margaret Thatchers funeral ?

[waterhog]

should the tax payer fund Margaret Thatcher funeral ? 10.04.13

its very controversial,
tongs will be wagging,
publicity needs not to be commercial,
because the turn out won't be sagging.
the "upper class" adored,
extravagant, pompous, with a endless tab,
walking the "walk" you must applaud,
not forgetting her gift of the gab.
with the good there's a down,
its a red light that's not green,
the "miners" felt the brown,
but still attending the funeral is the "Queen".
i watched Margaret's daughter,
"I'm a celeb" was a insight,
a good lady with no alter,
Carroll was a pure delight.
the "funeral" is hard to swallow,
the cost is ragging,
will the send off cause wallow,
because "bitterness" will be s ageing.
time to close the door,
all stand and be quiet,
is this moment very sore,
when to rest we lay the "llady" who started the "poll tax riot".

( i am very sorry if anyone find these words hard to read. battling with all what i have just said above i find myself asking - word this country be is the state it is in if we had a strong leader like her ? i predict not - and these are the words i hope brings comfort to my negative poem. but what do you think ? was she good for this country ? )

[Omah]

No

[Cherie]

This is really bugging me actually. She specfically said she did not want a state funeral, so they decide to give her the next step down from it. Something she clearly didn't want, and something this country cannot afford allegedly.

[Omah]

This is really bugging me actually. She specfically said she did not want a state funeral, so they decide to give her the next step down from it. Something she clearly didn't want, and something this country cannot afford allegedly.

Exactly ..... :thumbs:

[lostalex]

As a non-Brit it's really not my place to have an opinion about such specific matters. I do hope that she is treated with dignity though.

I believe that she deserves to be treated with dignity.

[arista]

another thread
one is enough

[Cherie]

As a non-Brit it's really not my place to have an opinion about such specific matters. I do hope that she is treated with dignity though.

Ibelieve that she deserves to be treated with dignity.
Sshe is obviously a target in death so it puzzles me why a very public parade has been arranged given she didn't want it. Surely here wishes should have been paramount?

[joeysteele]

No, it should be paid for from her estate, by her Family as with other families in the UK and if a really lavish funeral is desired then the Conservative party should fund it from their own funds not the taxpayers.

I see no reason whatsoever for the Military to be involved in this funeral,to me that is ridiculous,Margaret Thatcher had no real military connection.
I am really surprised the Queen will be attending too,I do not think that appropriate.
She should not be there adding even more to security costs,by all means make a broadcast marking her perceived achievements of Margaret Thatcher but not be at this funeral.

She was the first female PM of the UK and longest serving one.
Just, by a year or so though,she has rightly had the accolade of endless media coverage and documentaries on TV and tributes made in that way.
This planned funeral as it is, is out of order in my view and should not receive a single pence of taxpayers money as to it.

No other PM has hd that except for Winston Churchill who was there all through world war 2, no one would dispute he should have got that kind of funeral but not Margaret Thatcher,nor any other PM before her or after her either.

Being fair to Margaret Thatcher too, she herself would likely be horrified at the planning of this funeral the way it has been.
She would have gloried in the TV coverage accorded to her time as PM on TV since her death but she herself likely would not want her funeral to be turned into this farce.

[Cherie]

another thread
one is enough

This is specifically about her funeral though and who should be paying for it, the other thread is about her lifetime and legacy. It was confirmed on the news last night that the Thatcher family would be contributing a portion I want to know who is paying the rest don't you?

[Scarlett.]

Expecting the taxpayer to foot the bill for her funeral is ridiculous, it's not as if the Thatchers don't have the money.

[joeysteele]

Expecting the taxpayer to foot the bill for her funeral is ridiculous, it's not as if the Thatchers don't have the money.

I agree,I don't think the taxpayer should be funding a single bit of it.

William Hague going on today about the rebate she won from the EU ages ago as a just reason for spending money on such a lavish funeral in these difficult times, again shows how out of touch this Govt and Cabinet are with ordinary people.

[Omah]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-estate-family-secret

Margaret Thatcher, who was keen to promote herself as the humble grocer's daughter throughout her career, died surrounded by wealth and luxury at the Ritz in London – a guest of longtime supporters and media tycoons the Barclay brothers, who own the exclusive hotel.

But behind the opulence, the precise details of the Thatcher estate remain closely guarded by her family, and her wealth – although great – appears to be less extensive than some commentators had expected.

One current cabinet member and supporter of the former prime minster believed she was increasingly reliant on wealthy friends, saying: "My impression in latter years was that she was looked after by rich supporters."

Before moving into the Ritz, where it was reported that Sir David and Sir Frederick Barclay, owners of the Daily and Sunday Telegraph were footing the bill, Thatcher had lived in one of London's most exclusive neighbourhoods.

The five-bedroom house in Chester Square, Belgravia, where properties can fetch more than £6m, was her home for more than two decades. However, it is unclear whether this property will form part of her estate.

Thatcher's husband, Sir Denis, took out a 10-year lease on the house for £700,000 in 1991, which was renewed a decade later. According to the Land Registry the property was bought in 2006 by Bakeland Property Company Ltd, based in the British Virgin Islands, for £2.4m, although Thatcher lived there until a few months before her death. On Tuesday a spokesman for the family refused to answer any questions about her estate, including the Chester Square property, saying the former prime minister had never spoken publicly about her private financial situation. The spokesman added that the family were keen for the details to remain private.

However, colleagues said there were suggestions the house may have been paid for by one of Thatcher's wealthy friends.

"Whether she owned Chester Square I am not sure," said the minister. "Someone may have bought it and given it to her for the use thereof."

Thatcher was engaged in a series of lucrative ventures before her health began to deteriorate, from speaking engagements in the US and far east to her role as a global consultant for Philip Morris tobacco, reportedly worth hundreds of thousands of pounds a year.

Two years after she was forced out as prime minister, she was estimated to have a personal wealth of £9.5m.

In her prime she was able to demand £40,000 a time for appearances on the international speakers' circuit, beloved of former prime ministers and presidents. And almost a decade after leaving Downing Street, she was still able to attract tens of thousands for a speaking engagement in the US.

Her autobiography, published in 1993, secured a £3.2m advance from HarperCollins – part of Rupert Murdoch's empire – and she negotiated a separate deal worth £250,000 for the Japanese rights. A decade later when Sir Denis died it was reported that he left £1m in trust to her and their children, Sir Mark and Carol.

According to Mark Hollingsworth's book Thatcher's Fortunes: The Life and Times of Mark Thatcher, the family's finances – and numerous offshore accounts – were masterminded by the late Sir Michael Richardson, "the most powerful investment banker of his generation."

"After Margaret Thatcher left No 10, her favourite investment banker became more active in managing her finances," wrote Hollingsworth. "He was intimately involved in negotiating her multimillion-pound contract to publish her memoirs … and oversaw the offshore trusts."

Denis was worth a few bob, too :

Denis Thatcher, already a millionaire when he met Margaret, financed his second wife's training as a barrister, and a home in Chelsea; he also bought a large house in Lamberhurst, Kent, in 1965. His firm employed 200 people by 1957, but he sold it to Castrol on 26 August 1965 after suffering a mild nervous breakdown in 1964. He received a seat on Castrol's parent board, which he retained when Burmah Oil took it over in 1966. He retired from Burmah in June 1975, four months after his wife won the Conservative Party leadership election.

In addition to being a director of Burmah Oil, he was chairman of the Atlas Preservative Co, vice-chairman of Attwoods plc from 1983 to January 1994, a director of Quinton Hazell plc from 1968 to 1998 and a consultant to Amec plc and CSX Corp. He was also a non-executive director of retail giant Halfords during the 1980s.

I was employed by QH and was told that DT was on a retainer, as a non-executive director, of at least £250k pa plus expenses.

He also had fingers in more pies than mentioned above.

[Kizzy]

It does seem this way like it's one last finger to the public, something more low key would not have incited so much furore, and as said that was her wish.
this will be a catalyst for some to demonstrate against the 'austerity cuts' in the face of this sickening show of false sentiment.
The sad thing is that whoever does will not be seen a championing the thoughts and feelings of many but a disrespectful 'philpott'. This is how far we have come since the days of Thatcher.....Full circle.

[Jesus.]

with the good there's a down,
its a red light that's not green,

http://i.imgur.com/IHEwd.gif

[Livia]

How much does everyone think a state funerl is going to cost, in real terms? Probably less than it costs the country to keep all our alcoholics and junkies on benefits for a day. And why the hell shouldn't the military be involved? The military had respect for Thatcher and she had respect for them. This woman did get us a HUGE rebate from the EU, I don't see why that shouldn't be mentioned now. Like her or hate her, she was a great stateswoman and politician. As for the call that she was unpopular, I'd remind everyone that she never lost an election. She was in power for over a decade.

[Kizzy]

''Probably less than it costs the country to keep all our alcoholics and junkies on benefits for a day''
And there it is the view that everyone on a welfare benefits is a drug and alcohol addicted scrounger....

[Livia]

''Probably less than it costs the country to keep all our alcoholics and junkies on benefits for a day''
And there it is the view that everyone on a welfare benefits is a scrounger....

I think it says white clearly the words ALCOHOLICS AND JUNKIES. It doesn't say that everyone on welfare is a scrounger. It's very, very specific.

[Cherie]

How much does everyone think a state funerl is going to cost, in real terms? Probably less than it costs the country to keep all our alcoholics and junkies on benefits for a day. And why the hell shouldn't the military be involved? The military had respect for Thatcher and she had respect for them. This woman did get us a HUGE rebate from the EU, I don't see why that shouldn't be mentioned now. Like her or hate her, she was a great stateswoman and politician. As for the call that she was unpopular, I'd remind everyone that she never lost an election. She was in power for over a decade.

I would imagine the security alone will run into millions, it's a smack in the teeth to anyone who has had their disability allowance cut that on 1st April the country was broke and these cuts were vital, two weeks later we can host a lavish funeral for someone who expressly said they didn't want it. There are many other ways her supporters can pay their respects without lining the route to St Paul's.

[Niamh.]

It's not my country's money so I don't have much of an opinion on it but If she did say she didn't actually want one then it seems ridiculous to go against her wishes and spend so much of the Tax Payers money on something she didn't even want.

[Livia]

You say "lavish" like they're all going on somewhere afterwards to party.

It's all very well saying, oh it will cost more than the benefit cuts to the disabled. You could say that about anything. It's a fraction of what we send to India. It's a fraction of what we send to Africa, where we'vebeen digging wells for the last two hundred years and yet they're still drinking dirty water. If there wasn't anything to moan about, the Thatcher-haters would invent something.

[Kizzy]

I would imagine the security alone will run into millions, it's a smack in the teeth to anyone who has had their disability allowance cut that on 1st April the country was broke and these cuts were vital, two weeks later we can host a lavish funeral for someone who expressly said they didn't want it. There are many other ways her supporters can pay their respects without lining the route to St Paul's.

Excellent point cherie, this is rubbing salt in a festering wound, whatever respect the military had for her (if any) is not really the issue here.
The only factor is the expense incurred, those who wish to mourn would do so whatever sum was spent surely?

[Livia]

I made the comment about the military. Why would you weave in your little comment in your reply to Cherie's post?

Oh actually, yeah... I remember why you do that now.

It's the minority ***** making a fuss over this funeral. As usual.

[Cherie]

You say "lavish" like they're all going on somewhere afterwards to party.

It's all very well saying, oh it will cost more than the benefit cuts to the disabled. You could say that about anything. It's a fraction of what we send to India. It's a fraction of what we send to Africa, where we'vebeen digging wells for the last two hundred years and yet they're still drinking dirty water. If there wasn't anything to moan about, the Thatcher-haters would invent something.

Yes of course it is a fraction of what is spent on other things, though I assume there will be soup and sandwiches afterwards for visiting dignitaries, are they really going to send the Queen et al home on empty stomachs? :joker:

It is the principal here. A. She didn't want it. B. We are in times of austerity (allegedly). C. If it is tax payers money there is quite likely to be a lot of protest which may or may not end in people being injured which could have been avoided had she had a private ceremony. I really don't get it.

[Kizzy]

You say "lavish" like they're all going on somewhere afterwards to party.

It's all very well saying, oh it will cost more than the benefit cuts to the disabled. You could say that about anything. It's a fraction of what we send to India. It's a fraction of what we send to Africa, where we'vebeen digging wells for the last two hundred years and yet they're still drinking dirty water. If there wasn't anything to moan about, the Thatcher-haters would invent something.

Ok if you don't like lavish how about ceremonial? It is all very well attempting to justify it too, are you now suggesting that we suspend aid to developing countries to fund this?

[Nedusa]

Well now lets see.... Due to her misguided greedy selfish policies Britain has ended up where we are today.......Broke !!! whilst Mrs Thatchers families combined wealth probably runs in the tens of millions .So if you are asking if the Tax payer should fund a Public Funeral with Full military honours I would have to say NO..!!!!

[Vanessa]

No, i don't think so. Why should they ? :conf:

[GiRTh]

You say "lavish" like they're all going on somewhere afterwards to party.

It's all very well saying, oh it will cost more than the benefit cuts to the disabled. You could say that about anything. It's a fraction of what we send to India. It's a fraction of what we send to Africa, where we'vebeen digging wells for the last two hundred years and yet they're still drinking dirty water. If there wasn't anything to moan about, the Thatcher-haters would invent something.WHAT!!!!!LOL

Unfortuantely there is so much to complain about with Thatcher that there's no need to invent anything.

[Suze]

I admit certain things evade me re politics and off shore accounts etc.

But on reading the quoted news item, Maggie was the PM, and she had offshore accounts? Don't offshore accounts effect the economy of the Country? and if so, shouldn't a PM or former PM lead/have lead by example, considering the supposed state this Country is in that stealing from the poor to give to the rich, re our latest PM, robbing hood. Does he have offshore accounts also then?

As for the thread question itself. If Maggie herself requested no State Funeral or the likes, in that respect her wishes should have been respected, especially by her kin. Simple as. Now her funeral could be a mockery if some people who disliked her bombard it. What a memory for her family and it's their own faults.

[Kizzy]

I say no too and I doubt very much that I would be alone in my opinion there, no need to be rude though, I appreciate there will be some who welcome this news however thin on the ground they are.

[Kizzy]

I admit certain things evade me re politics and off shore accounts etc.

But on reading the quoted news item, Maggie was the PM, and she had offshore accounts? Don't offshore accounts effect the economy of the Country? and if so, shouldn't a PM or former PM lead/have lead by example, considering the supposed state this Country is in that stealing from the poor to give to the rich, re our latest PM, robbing hood. Does he have offshore accounts also then?

As for the thread question itself. If Maggie herself requested no State Funeral or the likes, in that respect her wishes should have been respected, especially by her kin. Simple as. Now her funeral could be a mockery if some people who disliked her bombard it. What a memory for her family and it's their own faults.

Suze, you are right it does affect the economy quite considerably.. But you have to understand there is a big difference between tax 'evasion' and tax 'avoidance'... What that difference is I'm not sure :)

[Jack_]

Absolutely not - she didn't request a state funeral so any tax payer funded one is disrespectful to her wishes. I quite like(d) the private company bidding idea. That is, after all, what she would have wanted. But then I suppose she'd have also wanted to rob the poorest of some more valuable money so maybe this'll keep her spirits happy too.

I sincerely hope and expect that if this goes ahead there will be some kind of riot that kicks off. I wouldn't usually support that but if you're going to use tax payers money to fund a funeral for a woman whom for a lot of those tax payers she will have destroyed their communities, then you'll get what's coming to you. And the minute I see the police turning into some military style force, sh*t will hit the fan.

How much does everyone think a state funerl is going to cost, in real terms? Probably less than it costs the country to keep all our alcoholics and junkies on benefits for a day. And why the hell shouldn't the military be involved? The military had respect for Thatcher and she had respect for them. This woman did get us a HUGE rebate from the EU, I don't see why that shouldn't be mentioned now. Like her or hate her, she was a great stateswoman and politician. As for the call that she was unpopular, I'd remind everyone that she never lost an election. She was in power for over a decade.

I'd actually rather support them considering Thatcher herself will have inadvertently pushed a lot of them into that position as a result of her policies.

[joeysteele]

She was a successful politician for her party, to be admired in some ways for attaining the status she did in that party and her determination to succeed, she lays claim to the fame of being the first UK PM, not the first in the World however, she was a strong and successful leader of her party.
She was a strong but not necessarily good PM overall as to large sections of the UK.

She was PM for over 11 years, won 3 elections, Harold Wilson actually won 3 elections too and led his party the be the largest party in a 4th,(Tony Blair was PM for over 10 years too, only about 18 months less than Margaret Thatcher).
The Queen did not attend Harold Wilson's funeral, no military were involved as to that so I see no reason why money should be spent from the taxpayer for her funeral and the Queen should not be there,she should represent all the people not a narrow section of it.

Margaret Thatcher will be talked about in political history in a good and bad way for as long as politics endures along with many others.
She has a statue erected in Westminster for her and for me that is where it all should end.

Her funeral should be the sole responsibility of her own estate, her family and if they so wish the backstabbing Conservative party who threw her out, not the taxpayer.
I also fail to see why those who disliked her intensely should now because she has died, become hypocrites and be expected to not say anything bad as to her.

I am sad for her, that her last years were riddled with illness, she would have got my vote once and once only,however in the end as far as I am concerned she was no more than a privileged citizen with a title.
This overblown coverage about her funeral is ridiculous and I also have little doubt as I have said before, that she would likely be as infuriated at it as many others are and rightly so.

[Kizzy]

I made the comment about the military. Why would you weave in your little comment in your reply to Cherie's post?

Oh actually, yeah... I remember why you do that now.

It's the minority ***** making a fuss over this funeral. As usual.

Ah.. you mean who're?

Is it the minority though... who're the supporters?

[Kizzy]

''Operation true blue''

This is totally ridiculous...
''The “True Blue committee” brings together MI5, National Security Secretariat, the police, Buckingham Palace, the Church of England, the Parliamentary authorities, Government departments and representatives of Lady Thatcher’s estate''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9983231/Operation-True-Blue-Baroness-Thatchers-funeral-plans.html

[arista]

''Operation true blue''

This is totally ridiculous...
''The “True Blue committee” brings together MI5, National Security Secretariat, the police, Buckingham Palace, the Church of England, the Parliamentary authorities, Government departments and representatives of Lady Thatcher’s estate''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9983231/Operation-True-Blue-Baroness-Thatchers-funeral-plans.html


Of course
what else would they do

[Vicky.]

No. We are apparently broke.

And she wouldn't have wanted it anyway.

So I dont get it at all :S

[joeysteele]

I don't think operation true blue is ridiculous, daft title but there you go.

However as long as those involved in it were the ones paying every pence as to cost and security and not one pence of taxpayers money was used then that would be fair enough.
However since they are not footing 100% of the cost then that part is not only ridiculous but also massively wrong and unacceptable in my opinion.

They shouldn't even have to be considering the extra cost of security for the Queen and Prince Philip's presence at it, they should not even be there at all anyway.

I am also though a bit sick of the Falklands conflict being milked regularly for all its worth, I expected to hear some mention of it but it does seem rather sick to keep milking it over and over.

[hijaxers]

It is a disgraceful waste of money . I hate that the Queen is attending this ridiculous overblown funeral and i hope it all goes tits up !

I'd be happy if they chucked her on the nearest bonfire

Total abuse of tax payers money !!!

[Nedusa]

I think its a bit of a gamble to hold such a high profile funeral given the extreme divisiveness that currently exists in relation to Mrs Thatcher and her legacies.

This is still a huge amount of bad feeling from people and families across the social spectrum that still to this day hate everything about Thatcher and Thatcherism. The depth of anger I fear is strong enough to motivate certain groups to plan major disruptions to this funeral.

Coupled with the current protest mentality we have seen in the last few years then this funeral could provide a trigger for some of the largest and most explosive protests the Capital has seen in a long time.

I hope the policing and security for this event are ready for all eventualities...!!!

[arista]

It is a disgraceful waste of money . I hate that the Queen is attending this ridiculous overblown funeral and i hope it all goes tits up !

I'd be happy if they chucked her on the nearest bonfire

Total abuse of tax payers money !!!


Its not all tax payers
some of it is paid by her Estate

[the truth]

I have carefully considered this and I would say no. For a few reasons, 1) she didnt want it 2) a socialized funeral surely goes against all her preachings? let the multi multi millionare family pay or at least part pay. 3) we're bankrupt and the fact were able to spend tens of millions on this funeral (that will be the hidden cost eventuALLY) in times of austerity is morally wrong. this added to the many milllions spent of the jubillee too seems obsene. I think todays tribute is more than enough. Ive watched every speech and enjoyed all but 1. the endless pro feminism garble by one female tory. none of these women mps are fit to swing her handbag,like her or loathe her, she came through the system, no anti democraic women only short list, no chance, I wouldnt have voted for her in a million years, but she did it on merit.

meanwhile thousands die of fuel poverty thanks to her privatising the utilities, the fuel , the vat rises , the nat ins rises all combine to cripple the poor and small business. and the millions of industrial workers (the ones who survived or didnt kill themselves) wonder to this day why she treated them all with such contempt. all they ever did was try to work to feed their families.

why didnt she privatise the coal pits? why didnt she evaluate which were th emost economic.incidentally 1 pit stayed open in wales, the big pit in the rhondda valleys. it made £300 million in the 15 years after she closed it. proving her decision to shut it wrong and frankly absurd. sadly none of this has been mentioned today

[the truth]

Its not all tax payers
some of it is paid by her Estate

where did u hear or read that?

[hijaxers]

Its not all tax payers
some of it is paid by her Estate

I begrudge every penny - let the millionaires pay or the Beastly Barclay brothers !!

[InOne]

Its not all tax payers
some of it is paid by her Estate

I heard that on BBC news. Wonder how much.

[hijaxers]

I have carefully considered this and I would say no. For a few reasons, 1) she didnt want it 2) a socialized funeral surely goes against all her preachings? let the multi multi millionare family pay or at least part pay. 3) we're bankrupt and the fact were able to spend tens of millions on this funeral (that will be the hidden cost eventuALLY) in times of austerity is morally wrong. this added to the many milllions spent of the jubillee too seems obsene. I think todays tribute is more than enough. Ive watched every speech and enjoyed all but 1. the endless pro feminism garble by one female tory. none of these women mps are fit to swing her handbag,like her or loathe her, she came through the system, no anti democraic women only short list, no chance, I wouldnt have voted for her in a million years, but she did it on merit.

meanwhile thousands die of fuel poverty thanks to her privatising the utilities, the fuel , the vat rises , the nat ins rises all combine to cripple the poor and small business. and the millions of industrial workers (the ones who survived or didnt kill themselves) wonder to this day why she treated them all with such contempt. all they ever did was try to work to feed their families.

why didnt she privatise the coal pits? why didnt she evaluate which were th emost economic.incidentally 1 pit stayed open in wales, the big pit in the rhondda valleys. it made £300 million in the 15 years after she closed it. proving her decision to shut it wrong and frankly absurd. sadly none of this has been mentioned today
Hey wouldn't it be great if all the miners turned up and threw coal at her coffin !!

[Marsh.]

I do agree that surely such a funeral goes against all of her self serving preachings.

[Cherie]

Its not all tax payers
some of it is paid by her Estate


Wow someone paying for their own funeral, how novel. Prime Minsters get their salary for life so the cost of her salary has been picked up by the taxpayer since she retired yet we still have to foot part of the bill for her funeral, the security is going to be on a par with the Olympics :suspect: but that went on for two weeks...we are constantly hearing how the police are overstretched yet they can all be pulled from their day jobs to provide security for this? It would make some sense if she died in office, we can only hope John Major, Tony Blair or Gordon Brown don't meet the grim reaper anytime soon as presumably they will get the same send off?

[Cherie]

I do agree that surely such a funeral goes against all of her self serving preachings.

I can only assume having seen Mark Thatcher on the news saying how humbled he is that the Queen is attending that the family are pushing for this for their own self serving purposes and riding roughshod over the wishes of their mother.

Will there be a media blackout on any trouble, as there will be trouble no doubt.

[King Gizzard]

No

[James]

The possibility that there is going to be protests reminds me a bit of the activities of the Westboro Baptist Church.

[the truth]

Hey wouldn't it be great if all the miners turned up and threw coal at her coffin !!

the miners are above this, they showed way more dignity than she ever did. the miners are heroes to a man. theres a 1000 years of world class coal left , but she flooded the mines after shutting them. thankfully slowly but surely theyre reopening several drift and open cast mines in wales. no one in SOUTHERN england seems to begin to appreciate what king coal means to the welsh, there is also the abandonment of the slate quariies, the lime, the wool, the gold , the silver, the copper, the steel too.....cardiff was the single biggest coal exporter IN THE WORLD...the 1st ever million pound business deal on record took place at the coal exchange in tiger bay....all the gold you see on the queens throne and the house of lords is ALL pure welsh gold. wales is the oldest inhabited part of the UK and perhaps its for this reason its grown so rich in some resources or perhaps this is why the original britions lived in wales.

mining had taken place in wales for at least 750 years, hirwaun was the biggest coal pit in the world, blaenavon alone had 130 drift mines, hundreds of thousands flocked to wales for this massive industiral revolution, visit cardiff bay (tiger bay) today and you will still find a multi cultural happy community where many people are black or mixed race. they were welcomed with open arms and the local working class people showed very little racism towards them. ask any black person from that area and he / she will confirm this remarkable community of people.

the blaenau ffesitniog slate quarry is sstill the biggest in the world and all those communites were 100% self sufficient building homes from the slate, fuelled by the coal and exporting to the world via cardiff and llandudno, wales also produced 66% of the entire worlds copper using recipes 4000 years old and refined in the great orme north wales, it was this ingeuity that gave the welsh the reputation for being mercurial and mystical people and lead to them using the mythical dragon as its national emblm... they were living the dream in many ways

Ive read the 5th century mabinogion and the welsh/britons were a free spirited people, they didnt wish to have leaders or to be lead. this ultimately made them relatively peaceful home loving self sufficient tribes. but also made them vulnerable to attacks by the vikings, the anglo saxons and the french in future centuries...

all the coal and copper and cannonballs for lord nelsons ships were produced in wales, the copper was placed on the bottom of british ships and made them unsinkable which in turn helped him defeat the french and ultimately let britain rule the waves for a few centuries

delighted to say though tata has a huge mine reopening in port talbot to fuel its steel works , still the largest in the uk. theyve used new methods of drilling to find the rich seams easier and as a drift mine will be able to use machinery to find this coal with far less danger, ill health and greater safety.
the little steam trains remain and the coal mining expertise remains and has been passed on from one generation to another. when the welsh suffered harship they quietly left and took their industrial expertise to argentina, pennsylvania (usa) and russia to name but a few. their ingenuity in these areas and in forming the unions to run them proved massively successful. welsh communities were built and pennsylvania was named after welsh immigrant william penn, they settled there as the place best suited to their industrial agenda and also most similar to wales itself.

maggie thatchers destruction of coal will be remembered but the spirit and heritage of these great people will outlast her disastrous industrial legacy

[Kizzy]

The possibility that there is going to be protests reminds me a bit of the activities of the Westboro Baptist Church.

How? The activities at Westboro Baptist Church have not one thing in common with this issue.

[James]

How? The activities at Westboro Baptist Church have not one thing in common with this issue.

They organise demonstrations at funerals, which are supposed to be respectful occasions. They are not political events.

[joeysteele]

Its not all tax payers
some of it is paid by her Estate

All of it,not some of it,should be paid by her estate and other interested parties, nothing should have to be paid from Govt funds from taxpayers.
Not a single pence.

Neither should taxpayers fund any other Prime Minister's funeral in any way too.
I doubt many would have not agreed with Winston Churchill's funeral being funded by the State but certainly no other PMs should be.

This funding of her funeral with public funds in part and all this near proclaiming her a Saint is going to really sour this funeral.
This is really becoming bizarre now.

[Kizzy]

They organise demonstrations at funerals, which are supposed to be respectful occasions. They are not political events.

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning any protests at her funeral far from it, and as I have said in the other thread I believe it plays right into the hands of those who seek suppress the opinions across many communities in the UK if they were to do this.
However I do see it as inevitable, this crass display of elitist squandering of public funds will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

[joeysteele]

the miners are above this, they showed way more dignity than she ever did. the miners are heroes to a man. theres a 1000 years of world class coal left , but she flooded the mines after shutting them. thankfully slowly but surely theyre reopening several drift and open cast mines in wales. no one in SOUTHERN england seems to begin to appreciate what king coal means to the welsh, there is also the abandonment of the slate quariies, the lime, the wool, the gold , the silver, the copper, the steel too.....cardiff was the single biggest coal exporter IN THE WORLD...the 1st ever million pound business deal on record took place at the coal exchange in tiger bay....all the gold you see on the queens throne and the house of lords is ALL pure welsh gold. wales is the oldest inhabited part of the UK and perhaps its for this reason its grown so rich in some resources or perhaps this is why the original britions lived in wales.

mining had taken place in wales for at least 750 years, hirwaun was the biggest coal pit in the world, blaenavon alone had 130 drift mines, hundreds of thousands flocked to wales for this massive industiral revolution, visit cardiff bay (tiger bay) today and you will still find a multi cultural happy community where many people are black or mixed race. they were welcomed with open arms and the local working class people showed very little racism towards them. ask any black person from that area and he / she will confirm this remarkable community of people.

the blaenau ffesitniog slate quarry is sstill the biggest in the world and all those communites were 100% self sufficient building homes from the slate, fuelled by the coal and exporting to the world via cardiff and llandudno, wales also produced 66% of the entire worlds copper using recipes 4000 years old and refined in the great orme north wales, it was this ingeuity that gave the welsh the reputation for being mercurial and mystical people and lead to them using the mythical dragon as its national emblm... they were living the dream in many ways

Ive read the 5th century mabinogion and the welsh/britons were a free spirited people, they didnt wish to have leaders or to be lead. this ultimately made them relatively peaceful home loving self sufficient tribes. but also made them vulnerable to attacks by the vikings, the anglo saxons and the french in future centuries...

all the coal and copper and cannonballs for lord nelsons ships were produced in wales, the copper was placed on the bottom of british ships and made them unsinkable which in turn helped him defeat the french and ultimately let britain rule the waves for a few centuries

delighted to say though tata has a huge mine reopening in port talbot to fuel its steel works , still the largest in the uk. theyve used new methods of drilling to find the rich seams easier and as a drift mine will be able to use machinery to find this coal with far less danger, ill health and greater safety.
the little steam trains remain and the coal mining expertise remains and has been passed on from one generation to another. when the welsh suffered harship they quietly left and took their industrial expertise to argentina, pennsylvania (usa) and russia to name but a few. their ingenuity in these areas and in forming the unions to run them proved massively successful. welsh communities were built and pennsylvania was named after welsh immigrant william penn, they settled there as the place best suited to their industrial agenda and also most similar to wales itself.

maggie thatchers destruction of coal will be remembered but the spirit and heritage of these great people will outlast her disastrous industrial legacy

You and I have not agreed a lot recently but I found this a fascinating post to read and so really well said The Truth.

[Kizzy]

I agree, a very informative and interesting post truth thanks :)

[Kizzy]

''The coffin bearing Lady Thatcher's body will be carried through central London to her funeral service in a horsedrawn gun carriage attended by an honour guard of more than 700 military personnel, while gun salutes are fired from the Tower of London, the Ministry of Defence has said.

The former prime minister may have requested a ceremonial rather than state funeral before her death, but the published arrangements reveal plans for an event involving scarcely less pomp – and one carefully calculated to burnish her image as a military leader and emphasise Britain's victory in the Falklands war.''

Just sickening.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-funeral-military-personnel

[Livia]

The Truth's long soliloquy does not address the fact - and I raised this earlier but no one addressed my point, predictably - that our coal mines during the late 70s and early 80s were so uneconomical that we were importing coal from Australia. Australia! It was actually cheaper to bring it half way around the world than it was to dig it out of our own ground. While miners were claiming pay rises of around 30%, the tax payer was keeping the unprofitable mines going. It was unsustainable.

[Scarlett.]

Yes, yes, the mines were unprofitable, but Thatcher pulled the support plug on them without a second thought to the economy of the towns that survived off them. There was no support net for those who would be left jobless. That is the issue that people have with what Thatcher did, the industries were suffering, but Thatcher pulled the plug on them without even thinking about any of the communities that would suffer.

[Livia]

Were the unions and the miners not aware that the mines were unprofitable and being supported by the taxpayer? Did it come as a shock to them? I actually agree that the government of the day was wrong not to put in a support network for those areas affected by mass unemployment. However, I also think that the unions claiming 30% payrises and striking every time they didn't get their own way, are culpable. It wasn't the government that made British coal mines uneconomical, it was the unions.

[Kizzy]

I did address the point livia and I have to say your interpretation of what happened is suitably skewed.
We we told the seams were exhausted, that was the reason for pits closing, but that was later found to be a lie after she had had the mines flooded.

[Cherie]

2,000 invited to the funeral including "celebs" Shirley Bassey, Jeremy Clarkson and Terry Wogan :D:

[joeysteele]

2,000 invited to the funeral including "celebs" like Shirley Bassey :D:

This is getting ridiculous now, it's near turning into a circus. Yet we are asked to show respect, for what, this overblown sort of show.
How dare any money from public funding be used for this. I can think of far more deserving causes than this.

I cannot see the slightest merit in the way this is being planned and set out.

[InOne]

Is it going to be on TV?

[joeysteele]

Is it going to be on TV?

I think you will be able to be sure of that 100% InOne.

[Cherie]

This is getting ridiculous now, it's near turning into a circus. Yet we are asked to show respect, for what, this overblown sort of show.
How dare any money from public funding be used for this. I can think of far more deserving causes than this.

I cannot see the slightest merit in the way this is being planned and set out.

Indeed. I have no idea who is driving this whether it is Cameron et al, or Mark T et al, but whoever it is has not got their finger anywhere near the pulse of how the nation is feeling, and I don't care how much of an EU rebate Thatcher got, that was her job to do the best for England. If an accountant gets a nice fat tax rebate for his client he doens't expect the client to pay for his funeral :D:

[Cherie]

Is it going to be on TV?

Pay per view.

[Jack_]

2,000 invited to the funeral including "celebs" Shirley Bassey, Jeremy Clarkson and Terry Wogan :D:

What's next, a performance by One Direction outside St Paul's and a ****ing firework display?

[InOne]

Pay per view.

Sounds about right!

[joeysteele]

Indeed. I have no idea who is driving this whether it is Cameron et al, or Mark T et al, but whoever it is has not got their finger anywhere near the pulse of how the nation is feeling, and I don't care how much of an EU rebate Thatcher got, that was her job to do the best for England. If an accountant gets a nice fat tax rebate for his client he doens't expect the client to pay for his funeral :D:

Totally agree Cherie, I am just dismayed at the tackiness of it all now. It is becoming a farce.

[Jack_]

Is it going to be on TV?

Yep, for three hours from 9:15am on BBC1

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/wbz9g/the-funeral-of-baroness-thatcher

[InOne]

Yep, for three hours from 9:15am on BBC1

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/wbz9g/the-funeral-of-baroness-thatcher

Ahhh, I'm not in the country then anyway.

[joeysteele]

What's next, a performance by One Direction outside St Paul's and a ****ing firework display?

Missed this post before, great response Jack.

[the truth]

whats new? the elitists in london have never given a damn about the masses....except on election week....the vast majority of british prime ministers have actually all come from the same class in eton....does anyone bellieve the UK is a real democracy? its a constitutional monarchy, class, insider dealing for the chosen few and in breeding is all that counts. how do you think these clowns end up with 100s of millions of pounds? hard work lol

The fact is the unions failed but thatcher went from one extreme to another and failed even worse. she wasnt even capable of having a conversation or an analysis to work out which pits were most economic. she didnt even look to prvatise them, which for her us surprising.

all she had to do in 1979 was lower taxes and yes privatise a companies.
instead she privatised nearly all the wrong things, put taxes up on small businesses and the working man/woman

to be frank, I think she was the single worst leader we have ever had.....she had a 10/15 year boom , but now were bust

people ask why didnt anyone turn it around? how she destroyed manufacturing base and drowned the mines. we have barely any industry left. meanwhile the germans as always seemed to build astronger more balanced economy where public and private worked together to keep industries strong

thatcher was an idiotic and selfish mean spirited pm

the total lie she was somehow for the aspiring small businessman (somehow her dad being a greengrocer was endlessly used as a reason for us to believe she was a supporter of the little man- LIES) is disproved by

- more than doubling vat
- rasing fuel prices and tax on fuel prices every year
-scrapping apprenticeships
-removing any incentive to employ
-increased regulation on small business
-increased national insurance
-raised taxes on the poor
-fuel pverty thanks to her creating utilies monopolies. energy/water/pricaes have gone up by over 1000% in real terms since thatcher came into power. how many have frozen to death, tens of thousands.

oh but wait she let people buy their homes? to buy your home you had to give up any housing benefit allowance....were these people really better off? oh and spening on social housing fell 68% under thatcher... meanwhile she deregulated the corporations, gave less support to agriculture and allowed the supermarkets to collude and fix prices

meanwhile the majority of steel works and industrial plants she did close, yes and some were very profitable, she dismantled brick by brick and reassembled in africa , where workers were paid peanuts and the tories sat on the board as shareholders.

meanwhile her son was an arms dealer

terrific people eh?

thatcher enslaved us to corporate greed. our exports collapsed. all the things she said like dont spend what you dont have etc she did the OPPOSITE. UK has over £1 trillion public debts but $9 trillion total debts (thats $144,000 each) were at war because we cant afford not to be...did she ever hear of dont put all your eggs in one basket? well she did....all finance and servives, no industry, no productivity, no exports....and she didnt see it coming? everyone else with a brain did

her plan was a small and spiteful plan scribbled on the back of a postage stamp.
the fact she wouldnt collaborate with anyone, she wouldnt find common ground, she wouldnt listen, compromise or reach agreements with people with shared interests , meant in the end she was the rich mans puppet. nothing more. somehow her idiotic negotiation skills are lauded as great and even amusing. in reality its bone headed. she didnt work in union with anyone unless then 100% cowtowed to her every demand. she didnt have the patience or empathy for any subtlety or nuance. her long term plan for the UK is a disaster

heseltine did one thing right when he got her booted out....mind you he was just as guilty about selling off the crown jewels

[joeysteele]

Another very interesting read The Truth.

Actually the glitz and way over the top planning of this funeral is going to be I expect looked on very quickly as a great misuse of any public funding and sadly a rather undignified one too.

[Nedusa]

whats new? the elitists in london have never given a damn about the masses....except on election week....the vast majority of british prime ministers have actually all come from the same class in eton....does anyone bellieve the UK is a real democracy? its a constitutional monarchy, class, insider dealing for the chosen few and in breeding is all that counts. how do you think these clowns end up with 100s of millions of pounds? hard work lol

The fact is the unions failed but thatcher went from one extreme to another and failed even worse. she wasnt even capable of having a conversation or an analysis to work out which pits were most economic. she didnt even look to prvatise them, which for her us surprising.

all she had to do in 1979 was lower taxes and yes privatise a companies.
instead she privatised nearly all the wrong things, put taxes up on small businesses and the working man/woman

to be frank, I think she was the single worst leader we have ever had.....she had a 10/15 year boom , but now were bust

people ask why didnt anyone turn it around? how she destroyed manufacturing base and drowned the mines. we have barely any industry left. meanwhile the germans as always seemed to build astronger more balanced economy where public and private worked together to keep industries strong

thatcher was an idiotic and selfish mean spirited pm

the total lie she was somehow for the aspiring small businessman (somehow her dad being a greengrocer was endlessly used as a reason for us to believe she was a supporter of the little man- LIES) is disproved by

- more than doubling vat
- rasing fuel prices and tax on fuel prices every year
-scrapping apprenticeships
-removing any incentive to employ
-increased regulation on small business
-increased national insurance
-raised taxes on the poor
-fuel pverty thanks to her creating utilies monopolies. energy/water/pricaes have gone up by over 1000% in real terms since thatcher came into power. how many have frozen to death, tens of thousands.

oh but wait she let people buy their homes? to buy your home you had to give up any housing benefit allowance....were these people really better off? oh and spening on social housing fell 68% under thatcher... meanwhile she deregulated the corporations, gave less support to agriculture and allowed the supermarkets to collude and fix prices

meanwhile the majority of steel works and industrial plants she did close, yes and some were very profitable, she dismantled brick by brick and reassembled in africa , where workers were paid peanuts and the tories sat on the board as shareholders.

meanwhile her son was an arms dealer

terrific people eh?

thatcher enslaved us to corporate greed. our exports collapsed. all the things she said like dont spend what you dont have etc she did the OPPOSITE. UK has over £1 trillion public debts but $9 trillion total debts (thats $144,000 each) were at war because we cant afford not to be...did she ever hear of dont put all your eggs in one basket? well she did....all finance and servives, no industry, no productivity, no exports....and she didnt see it coming? everyone else with a brain did

her plan was a small and spiteful plan scribbled on the back of a postage stamp.
the fact she wouldnt collaborate with anyone, she wouldnt find common ground, she wouldnt listen, compromise or reach agreements with people with shared interests , meant in the end she was the rich mans puppet. nothing more. somehow her idiotic negotiation skills are lauded as great and even amusing. in reality its bone headed. she didnt work in union with anyone unless then 100% cowtowed to her every demand. she didnt have the patience or empathy for any subtlety or nuance. her long term plan for the UK is a disaster

heseltine did one thing right when he got her booted out....mind you he was just as guilty about selling off the crown jewels

Finally somebody takes the time to write down the reality of thatchers legacy... Superb post.... Well done !!! 10 out of 10.....

[Kizzy]

''meanwhile the majority of steel works and industrial plants she did close, yes and some were very profitable, she dismantled brick by brick and reassembled in africa , where workers were paid peanuts and the tories sat on the board as shareholders.''

This was the real reason for privatisation, take industry and public utilities and split them into nice little earners for other tories.
then watch all the lovely kickbacks come rolling in.

[Nedusa]

''meanwhile the majority of steel works and industrial plants she did close, yes and some were very profitable, she dismantled brick by brick and reassembled in africa , where workers were paid peanuts and the tories sat on the board as shareholders.''

This was the real reason for privatisation, take industry and public utilities and split them into nice little earners for other tories.
then watch all the lovely kickbacks come rolling in.

I agree, and yet privatisation was sold to the masses as the way to generate wealth with share proposals and discounted shares. But as you point out the real reasons were more connected their own personal wealth generation.

To be honest the more I read into the policies and actions of thatcher and her cronies the angrier I become. Before her death I like a lot of people disliked her intensely , but after really examining her policies and the effects of her actions in all their murky shady double dealings I now quite frankly despise the woman and may be heading down to London next week to voice my displeasure.

I wish people would do their homework re Thatcher before coming on this forum praising this hideous woman who really has damaged this nation more than most people will ever know....!!!!

[the truth]

Interesting to hear andrew neils' memory of meeting her at her home for an interview in the 60s when he was a mere journo , he actually mooted to her the idea of making social housing more affordable to the working classes by offering a discount, thatcher looked at neil quizzically saying, "oh no, but that wouldnt help our people" as neil said she of course meant the rich middle classes. that really does say a lot about her greed is good , way of thinking. you can bet the real reason she brought it in was also for selfish reasons ie. get people off housing benefits and also to get them voting for her.

[Kizzy]

XDtClJYJBj8

[Kizzy]

smzsIONNh0w

[Kizzy]

wcXi-VYy_Yw

[Kazanne]

Just a thought, all the people that are outraged at the expense of Mrs Thatchers funeral should probably think about the vast amount of money being spent to protect property and generally police it ,it will probably cost more than the funeral itself,but you can bet the 'cost' wont bother them as long as they are getting their rocks off trying to prove what? they didn't like her or agree with her policies,well we all know that already ,but it doesn't stop them getting their 15 mins of fame.Do they think about THAT money that will be used to keep them in order?bet they don't.

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Kazanne;5932240]Just a thought, all the people that are outraged at the expense of Mrs Thatchers funeral should probably think about the vast amount of money being spent to protect property and generally police it ,it will probably cost more than the funeral itself,but you can bet the 'cost' wont bother them as long as they are getting their rocks off trying to prove what? they didn't like her or agree with her policies,well we all know that already ,but it doesn't stop them getting their 15 mins of fame.Do they think about THAT money that will be used to keep them in order?bet they don't.[/Q

I'm pretty sure the 10 million price tag includes security Kazanne, I feel her funeral will be a target for every and anyone who feels the need to protest on the day, which to me makes the decision to hold such a public displayf or such a divisive ex leader all the more ridiculous, a misuse of the police and public funds.

[Kazanne]

[QUOTE=Kazanne;5932240]Just a thought, all the people that are outraged at the expense of Mrs Thatchers funeral should probably think about the vast amount of money being spent to protect property and generally police it ,it will probably cost more than the funeral itself,but you can bet the 'cost' wont bother them as long as they are getting their rocks off trying to prove what? they didn't like her or agree with her policies,well we all know that already ,but it doesn't stop them getting their 15 mins of fame.Do they think about THAT money that will be used to keep them in order?bet they don't.[/Q

I'm pretty sure the 10 million price tag includes security Kazanne, I feel her funeral will be a target for every and anyone who feels the need to protest on the day, which to me makes the decision to hold such a public displayf or such a divisive ex leader all the more ridiculous, a misuse of the police and public funds.

I just don't know why people cant 'rejoice' at home with a few bevvies and friends around,lol,I just think that for SOME it is an excuse to go out there and destroy other peoples property ,it's not their faults ,I find it all rather pointless,as it wont hurt or affect the lady concerned.On a plus note,how are you Cherie?:hugesmile:

[Cherie]

good thanks Kazanne!

[Kizzy]

Well as maggie herself said there is no such thing as free money, it's public money.
Taxpayers money...
So seeing as the public paid for this shindig is it not right and fair they are invited?
I see the spin that it is only the 'loony lefties' or 'phillpots' that are opposed to this, But wait... on the front pages of the papers, teachers and policemen too!
So called 'strivers' ... What on earth can their grievance be?

[Kazanne]

Well as maggie herself said there is no such thing as free money, it's public money.
Taxpayers money...
So seeing as the public paid for this shindig is it not right and fair they are invited?
I see the spin that it is only the 'loony lefties' or 'phillpots' that are opposed to this, But wait... on the front pages of the papers, teachers and policemen too!
So called 'strivers' ... What on earth can their grievance be?

Nothing wrong with popping along Kizzy,but do you really think people need to vent their anger so angrily by destroying property etc,I cant see what any of it will achieve?:hugesmile:have to say this has been a great thread.

[joeysteele]

If this had been as Margaret Thatcher it seems herself wanted, a low key, more private and dignified funeral this attention would likely have been avoided at a massively reduced cost too.

I think it is obscene and the fact taxpayers are going to fund any of it will only inflame the anger at it.
There was no need at all to have created this show/farce, all that had to be done was what she wanted as with her Husband Dennis's funeral.
I find it distasteful that her funeral has been hijacked by her Party and that her family have allowed it to be too.

As I said in a previous post, my Parents are lifelong Conservative supporters but they are furious that taxpayers money is being used in any way for a retired PMs funeral.
No matter who they are.

[the truth]

the £10 million price tag is clearly a lie...the entire policing, trafficking, congestion, security, damage incurred, the cost of closing parts of london down etc the figure will be huge and this is why cameron wont discuss it.
her star shone brightly but when the smoke cleared and all the hollow speeches were spoken, we realise there was less to her that met the eye. by this time net month I doubt anyone will want to discuss her much ever again

these elitist people wasting tax payers money are plain greedy and selfish hypocrites, the same so called free marketeers who got the pubic to bail out the banks with pubic money? so shes leaving as she lived , all me me me and all paid for by the society she said doesnt exist..

[Kizzy]

Nothing wrong with popping along Kizzy,but do you really think people need to vent their anger so angrily by destroying property etc,I cant see what any of it will achieve?:hugesmile:have to say this has been a great thread.

Who said you could borrow my crystal ball?.. ;)
It hasn't happened yet, who knows if there will be any destruction of property, I am in the hope there may be a peaceful protest, but who can say?
People have already been forced out of their jobs for voicing their opinion, Kim Jong Un would be proud of the way we silence critics of fascistic regimes here....

[Kazanne]

Who said you could borrow my crystal ball?.. ;)
It hasn't happened yet, who knows if there will be any destruction of property, I am in the hope there may be a peaceful protest, but who can say?
People have already been forced out of their jobs for voicing their opinion, Kim Jong Un would be proud of the way we silence critics of fascistic regimes here....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/kazanne/kizzy_zps44a5d7d5.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kazanne/media/kizzy_zps44a5d7d5.png.html)

[Tom4784]

Considering her reign was almost defined by budget cuts and tax rises it seems quite ironic to spend so much on her funeral, I doubt she'd want such a big affair so I don't see the point in doing it in such a way.

[Kizzy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/kazanne/kizzy_zps44a5d7d5.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kazanne/media/kizzy_zps44a5d7d5.png.html)

:love: :love: :love:

[InOne]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/13/dont-upset-margaret-thatcher-mourners?commentpage=2

[MTVN]

Have no real problem with it tbh, she was the PM who had the biggest impact on our country since Churchill and I have nothing against acknowledging that fact, she is by no means the first to receive a taxpayer funded funeral and she won't be the last

[Kizzy]

Have no real problem with it tbh, she was the PM who had the biggest impact on our country since Churchill and I have nothing against acknowledging that fact, she is by no means the first to receive a taxpayer funded funeral and she won't be the last

Ahem...
Clement Attlee

Labour | 1945 - 1951

Clement Attlee enlarged and improved social services and the public sector in post-war Britain; creating the National Health Service and nationalising major industries and public utilities.
Clement Attlee was leader of the Labour Party from 1935 to 1955, and served as Britain’s Prime Minister from 1945 to 1951. As Prime Minister, Attlee oversaw the rebuilding of post-war Britain, and the birth of the nation’s Welfare State. More than one survey of academics has voted Attlee the most successful British Prime Minister of all time.

http://www.number10.gov.uk/past-prime-ministers/clement-attlee/

20yrs as an excellent reformer and PM, no state funeral...

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-22125280

The Bishop of Grantham has spoken out about the scale and cost of Margaret Thatcher's funeral.

The Rt Rev Tim Ellis, from Baroness Thatcher's birthplace in Lincolnshire, has called the £10m event a "mistake".

He warned that while there is ill feeling about the former prime minister, some people may use the event for their own political agenda.

He said the ceremonial funeral was "asking for trouble" and should be "more low-key and personal".

The funeral, with military honours, will take place on Wednesday at St Paul's Cathedral in London.

It will be the first time the Queen has attended the funeral of a British prime minister since Sir Winston Churchill's in 1965.

Good for Bishop ..... :thumbs:

[Kazanne]

We pay enough taxes to keep the dregs of life in prisons etc,so can't see this will make much of a dent.

[joeysteele]

The Bishop is right it is a mistake and a big one,
I am not happy that this funeral is being organised by people who could well fund the entire proceedings themselves from their own means, from voluntary donors and the Conservative party of which she was a major part.
So there should be no need for the voters/taxpayers to have to fund any of it unless they wanted to voluntary donate in some way to the event.

[Jesus.]

We pay enough taxes to keep the dregs of life in prisons etc,so can't see this will make much of a dent.

Slightly different situation though Kaz, surely you see that?

[Jack_]

The private company idea was the best.

Margaret Thatcher's funeral - sponsored by Pringles

[arista]

Blair is going - I hope he does not Want Another Fee for it.

[joeysteele]

Blair is going - I hope he does not Want Another Fee for it.

He's already getting one, his security paid for by the taxpayer.

[arista]

He's already getting one, his security paid for by the taxpayer.



Yes but thats normal

[Kazanne]

Slightly different situation though Kaz, surely you see that?

I do see that,but I also see that we waste so much money on unnecessary things that this one wont make much of a difference and it will go ahead anyway,I don't think it needed to be done either they should have just had a quiet affair and let her go with some semblance of decency.

[joeysteele]

Yes but thats normal

It shouldn't have to be. I think anyway.

[joeysteele]

I do see that,but I also see that we waste so much money on unnecessary things that this one wont make much of a difference and it will go ahead anyway,I don't think it needed to be done either they should have just had a quiet affair and let her go with some semblance of decency.

To the bit in bold, I 100% agree, what this funeral will do will only leave more resentment towards her from those who already were hostile and long after this funeral too.
A quieter affair with even special services later could have likely not had a greater effect on resentment already there.

As you state, let her go with some, although I would have said much greater, semblance of decency in a quieter and more dignified way.

[Kizzy]

Seeing as this is meant to be a democracy, and this is a funeral funded by the public, would a vote as to who agreed with this have not been better?
My opinion now is this is a freak show.

[arista]

Seeing as this is meant to be a democracy, and this is a funeral funded by the public, would a vote as to who agreed with this have not been better?
My opinion now is this is a freak show.

But New Labour set all this up well before her death
as she kept having strokes. (Ref: Ch4News today)


So Your Anger should be at Blair /Brown

Fact

[the truth]

Seeing as this is meant to be a democracy, and this is a funeral funded by the public, would a vote as to who agreed with this have not been better?
My opinion now is this is a freak show.

britain is not a democracy, its a constitutional monarchy, this totallt pervert sdemocracy. you cant have a proper democracy with a monarchy. as it stands because we have the monarchy , yet theyre powerless this makes the prime minister all powerful and in effect a king. as we see when our prime ministers get into power they can do anything they like even without running it through the cabinet. the whips and the power brokers, allied to self interest, ensure most if not all their crazy bills are passed. ps why hasnt labour spoken out agains this being funded by the state?

[the truth]

But New Labour set all this up well before her death
as she kept having strokes.


So Your Anger should be at Blair /Brown

Fact

i think the blame can be shared equally

[Vicky.]

Police to arrest people who turn their backs on coffin? :S

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/13/dont-upset-margaret-thatcher-mourners?commentpage=2

[Kizzy]

Uhsl0QHSDWE#!
Crushing democracy eh.... who is doing this now?

[Jack_]

Fitting that the policing at her funeral will be as disgusting and over the top as it was as when she was alive and in power

[Kizzy]

Hang on they've seen sense...
Protesters planning to demonstrate along the route of Lady Thatcher's funeral procession have been given the go-ahead by police to turn their backs on the former prime minister's coffin as it makes its way through central London to St Paul's.

Scotland Yard has repeatedly asked people planning demonstrations to let them know in advance, warning that anyone causing "harassment, alarm or distress" could be arrested under section 5 of the Public Order Act.

But Rebecca Lush Blum, 41, from Hampshire, who has set up a Facebook event calling on people to turn their back on the funeral procession, said she had spoken to the police and had been reassured that her protest could go ahead near the Royal Courts of Justice.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/14/thatcher-funeral-protesters-police

[arista]

Police to arrest people who turn their backs on coffin? :S

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/13/dont-upset-margaret-thatcher-mourners?commentpage=2


Vicky they should not be there
if they want to be rude.


For Feck Sake its a Funeral

you are getting as bad as Kizzy, sadly.

[Kizzy]

This article is very fitting and I understand totally what this guy means here...


Margaret Thatcher never liked her country

Thatcher may have draped herself in the flag, but she didn't understand what really made Britain great

''There is nothing more subversive than a definition of happiness, a vision of how things could be better. Thatcher, of course, dismissed the very idea that politics could make things better. We would not build Jerusalem; we would deregulate our green and pleasant land and hope the markets would build it for us. This diminished view of politics is the most potent part of her legacy. We are facing a housing crisis. Are we going to build houses? No, we're going to stimulate the market, even though we now know the market is run by skanks and jackasses. This distrust of the state is something which she imported from America. It's not British.

The British have many happy memories of state intervention. It was the state that won the war, the state that founded the NHS and gave us free milk when we were little. We have always believed in the possibility of Jerusalem. It's there in Milton, Blake, GK Chesterton and Oliver Postgate. There's a thread of purpose that runs through our finest moments – the abolition of the slave trade, the winning of votes for women, the defeat of Hitler – a desire to be not just more prosperous but better, to be more equal, more sharing, more accepting of difference, to have fun. It's in all the temporary Utopias we build for ourselves – the well-run caravan site, the Notting Hill carnival, the village fete and Glastonbury.''
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/14/thatcher-never-liked-her-country

[Kizzy]

Vicky they should not be there
if they want to be rude.


For Feck Sake its a Funeral

you are getting as bad as Kizzy, sadly.

What do you mean by that,
What exactly is it you disike about my view arista?

[arista]

What do you mean by that,
What exactly is it you disike about my view arista?


I just think you are going the wrong way about this.
Its a Funeral
Not a Demo

[Vicky.]

Vicky they should not be there
if they want to be rude.


For Feck Sake its a Funeral

you are getting as bad as Kizzy, sadly.
I just think its ridiculous to arrest people for that.

Although it appears not now so I am happy.

Everyone has a right to be there, considering we are paying for it. Personally I wouldnt go to a funeral to disrespect the dead. But given the amount of people she pissed off..I can kinda understand it. I think some are using this as a protest to the new tory policies too...not just Thatcher.

[lostalex]

I just think its ridiculous to arrest people for that.

Although it appears not now so I am happy.

Everyone has a right to be there, considering we are paying for it. Personally I wouldnt go to a funeral to disrespect the dead. But given the amount of people she pissed off..I can kinda understand it. I think some are using this as a protest to the new tory policies too...not just Thatcher.

I don't think most people doing it are even that politically aware. It's a lot like the occupy movement i think most people are just there cause it's something to do and it's "cool". hipsters.

you'll hear a lot of catch phrases and buzz words, but actually press most of those people for an intelligent debate, and you'll be disappointed.

tsJPKMvWDmY

[billy123]

I think i will just wait until it all dies down before i smear dog crap on her headstone theres no rush.

[the truth]

I don't think most people doing it are even that politically aware. It's a lot like the occupy movement i think most people are just there cause it's something to do and it's "cool". hipsters.

you'll hear a lot of catch phrases and buzz words, but actually press most of those people for an intelligent debate, and you'll be disappointed.

tsJPKMvWDmY

again youre generalizing wrongly about people you know virtually nothing about. youre also tarring everyone with the same brush which is rather bigotted of you perhaps youd rather go out and shoot them for protesting?

[lostalex]

again youre generalizing wrongly about people you know virtually nothing about. youre also tarring everyone with the same brush which is rather bigotted of you perhaps youd rather go out and shoot them for protesting?

lol

It's interesting though, hearing what these protesters actually think, their amazing political ideas for the world...

jLRLTeBi2iA

v_ZjWFHjO4Y

[joeysteele]

I wouldn't turn my back on a coffin going past myself, however if that is the main demo against this funeral then I consider that a peaceful demo.

Also, I don't care whether it was Labour who laid down plans for this funeral or not, I still say 100% for me, that there should be no public funds used for it at all.
Using them for this funeral is just totally wrong in my view.

A funeral too where the organisers are actually inviting celebrities to it, is nothing less than tacky to me,say they want to go by all means and do so but sending out invites to them is quite pathetic.

[waterhog]

I wouldn't turn my back on a coffin going past myself, however if that is the main demo against this funeral then I consider that a peaceful demo.

Also, I don't care whether it was Labour who laid down plans for this funeral or not, I still say 100% for me, that there should be no public funds used for it at all.
Using them for this funeral is just totally wrong in my view.

A funeral too where the organisers are actually inviting celebrities to it, is nothing less than tacky to me,say they want to go by all means and do so but sending out invites to them is quite pathetic.


i agree - if any of us pop our clogs we or our familys dont get help - so why should they - and after all they are a family in a very well payed profession.

i hope this sounds not disrespectful and sorry to sound nasty. as i do have a soft spot for carrol.

[Kizzy]

''Hundreds have been given a pauper’s funeral in Leeds after dying alone or in poverty. Reporter Laura Bowyer investigates the stark reality of public health funerals.

SOARING funeral costs and the effects of the recession have left hundreds of families in Leeds unable to afford to give their loved ones a final farewell.

It means that more than two “paupers’ funerals” are carried out in the city, on average, every single week at a cost of more than a thousand pounds each.

Among those have been funeral services for a baby boy and a 101-year-old.

A YEP investigation has revealed that more than 650 of the funerals, also knows as public health funerals, have been organised in Leeds over the last five years''

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/leeds-in-2013-pauper-s-funerals-at-record-levels-1-5340428

[joeysteele]

i agree - if any of us pop our clogs we or our familys dont get help - so why should they - and after all they are a family in a very well payed profession.

i hope this sounds not disrespectful and sorry to sound nasty. as i do have a soft spot for carrol.

Nothing you said sounds in any way disrespectful to me waterhog.

For me it is taxpayers who are really being disrespected by being expected to cover some of this funerals costs without being asked.
I neither understand why or think it right considering the status of the people actually organising this near farce it seems to be becoming now.

[Jack_]

http://i.imgur.com/R0tVQ7S.jpg

:laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3: :laugh3:

[lostalex]

HIllary: Yur such an Inspiration Maggie. You put the first cracks in the glass ceiling.

http://cdn-media.nationaljournal.com/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=27714&format=homepage_fullwidth

Maggie: Honey, My people hate me!

Hillary: That makes you even more impressive, if you ain't hated you ain;'t a POLITICIAN? am i right? or am i right or am i right? *nudge nudge*

Maggie: No, they Really HATE me...

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00789/Clinton-Thatcher_789933c.jpg

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/C/Hillary-Clinton-9251306-1-402.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02253/Margaret-Thatcher_2253302b.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/996509/thumbs/r-HILLARY-CLINTON-large570.jpg?6

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/06/04/hillary460x276.jpg


Maggie: but don't worry, you don't have to be loved to gain power. Who gives a crap what poor people think anyway?

Hillary: LOL you had me nervous there for a second! You British have such a dry sense of humor!!

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/04/09/1226616/245849-baroness-margaret-thatcher-in-downing-street-london.jpg

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01708/ThatcherInvites_03_1708547a.jpg

[Jack_]

http://www.pmamediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/link_bait_goldfish.jpg

[Jack_]

'Margaret Thatcher was no feminist'
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-no-feminist)

[lostalex]

http://www.pmamediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/link_bait_goldfish.jpg

it's so shiney and pretty! :love:

http://www.rcsinnovations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/1dory.jpg

[Jack_]

Fitting :)

[Nedusa]

I think the best way to send Thatcher off would have been a public cremation. Unfortunately, she died before that could happen...!!!

[thesheriff443]

I think the best way to send Thatcher off would have been a public cremation. Unfortunately, she died before that could happen...!!!

that's just sick!

[AnnieK]

I find this less hard to stomach than tax payers money being used to keep child killers, serial killers and paedophiles in relative luxury year on year in prisons. It is an extortionate amount of money for a funeral that the person didn't want and I am surprised the government is willing to have the scrutiny from the world considering they know the depth of feeling that will be on display.

[thesheriff443]

I find this less hard to stomach than tax payers money been used to keep child killers, serial killers and paedophiles in relative luxury year on year in prisons. It is an extortionate amount of money for a funeral that the person didn't want and I am surprised the government is willing to have the scrutiny from the world considering they know the depth of feeling that will be on display.

this is about the history books!
when the queen is willing to attend it takes this to another level!
thatcher will take her place in history.

[Ammi]

..tbh, I don’t think any funeral arrangements, other than a complete private family funeral, would have been satisfactory to the anti-Thatcher public..I also don’t think realistically that was ever going to happen..(regardless of her or her family’s wishes)..which is why I don’t think anyone should presume any blame on her family for this...whether people loved/hated or were indifferent to her..she was the only female PM this country has ever had and will go down in history for the decisions she made while in power...probably more than any other post war PM..however controversial/unpopular those decisions were ....I obviously can’t be certain but am also not sure a current Labour government could have made any different decision over this as lots of things do have to be considered here and yes, one of those things should be public opinion..and maybe especially in a recession...but tbh, regardless of which party is in power, I’m not sure the welfare of the ‘working public’ is ever the highest thing on the agenda in any financial decisions of public spending...I don’t think any of the party leaders are ‘in touch with the public’ enough...

...Incidently, I’m not saying I agree with the funeral plans..just that I can’t see in this case that, they could have made it a totally family thing....(no matter how much some people dislike her or whether their reasons are justified, she couldn't just be 'put in a box and put into the ground')..whether a ‘compromise’ was ever considered, I have no idea..do we actually know who made the decision yet..?...

..I still think that to protest at such an occasion is extremely inappropriate and distasteful and makes the protesters themselves as bad, if not worse than the cause they are protesting against...

[joeysteele]

Well it would seem the Govt with David Cameron himself as the whole trumpet section are the main planners of this funeral.
All the announcements concerning it come from Downing Street.
I have no objection at all to this kind of funeral for Margaret Thatcher, of course she has a place in history but only just.
I have even some admiration for her strength of leadership.

I just think the planners of this funeral should bear the cost of it in full, the Conservative party of which she was a major strength in for instance, they could cover the costs that the taxpayer is having to put in.
The taxpayer has never been asked to fund any former PMs funeral no matter the economic climate at the time they died.
So why should they have to have any funds given to this one, if they had been asked if anyone wanted to voluntary contribute to the funeral, fine but to just take the funds on this occasion is to me wrong.
(Obvously the state paid for Winston Churchills but he led us all through the war,few would have objected to that,a whole different scenario).

The Queen should not be attending this funeral either, I am extremely disappointed she is.
The Queen should repreent all her citizens not just a privileged few and joining this farce with the celebrities that have been 'invited' too is something I find really distasteful.

By all means have leading politicians there, past and present,by all means have the PM do a reading.
Although I see no reason for it myself , include the military too but why then could it still not be done on a more dignified less costly and a bit larger way than her Husband Dennis's was.
No public funding whatsoever and paid for by the planners like most people have to do when someone they really love dies, whether they choose a budget funeral or a much larger one,for people who are just as important to them as Margaret Thatcher is to her family and connections.

I am neither anti Margaret Thatcher or pro her,I didn't live through her time as PM and my family didn't suffer under her policies,but millions of other people did.
I am however,very strongly anti public funds being used for her funeral and I fail to see how the planners, knowing how divisive the views are as to Margaret Thatcher, could not see that using public money for this funeral would only heighten those divisions and anger.

[AnnieK]

Well it would seem the Govt with David Cameron himself as the whole trumpet section are the main planners of this funeral.
All the announcements concerning it come from Downing Street.
I have no objection at all to this kind of funeral for Margaret Thatcher, of course she has a place in history but only just.
I have even some admiraion for her strength of leadership.

I just think the planners of this funeral should bear the cost of it in full, the Conservative party of which she was a major strength in for instance, they could cover the costs that the taxpayer is having to put in.
The taxpayer has never been asked to fund any former PMs funeral no matter the economic climate at the time they died.
So why should they have to have any funds given to this one, if they had asked if anyone wanted to voluntary contribute to the funeral, fine but to just take the funds on this occasion is to me wrong.
(Obvously the state paid for Winston Churchills but he led us all through the war,few would have objected to that,a whole different scenario).

The Queen should not be attending this funeral either, I am extremely disappointed she is.
The Queen should repreent all her citizens not just a privileged few and joining this farce with the celebrities that have been 'invited' too is something I find really distasteful.

By all means have leading politicians there, past and present,by all means have the PM do a reading.
Although I see no reason for it myself , include the military too but why then could it still not be done on a more dignified less costly and a bit larger way than her Husband Dennis's was.
No public funding whatsoever and paid for by the planners like most people have to do when someone they really love dies, whether they choose a budget funeral or a much larger one,for people who are just as important to them as Margaret Thatcher is to her family and connections.

I am neither anti Margaret Thatcher or pro her,I didn't live through her time as PM and my family didn't suffer under her policies,but millions of other people did.
I am however,very strongly anti public funds being used for her funeral and I fail to see how the planners, knowing how divisive the views are as to Margaret Thatcher, could not see that using public money for this funeral would only heighten those divisions and anger.

You could say the same about the Queen not attending though. Then she is snubbing the thoughts of pro thatcher supporters. So Her Maj couldn't win no matter what she did. Again, at lot of thinking will be based around the fact that the world will be watching and a snub from the Queen would not go unnoticed. The sooner Wednesday is over the better as far as u am concerned. Nothing will change the decisions tht have been made and in the meantime current issues such as the problems with the welfare reform are being sidelined when these are the most important issues at the moment. The taxpayers money going to this funeral would have gone to some other crap, I would rather the media, politicians and the general public concentrate on people who are going to be in serious dire straits over the benefit changes.

[joeysteele]

Well anniek76, of course I take your points on thatand respect them but it has been a sort of protocol that the Queen doesn't attend former PM's funerals.
For instance, Harold Wilson who was largely believed to be a particular liked PM of the Queen, he actually won 4 out of 5 general elections, he was invited by the Queen to and he took the office of PM 4 times in his lifetime although not with the majorites Margaret Thatcher got.
He also led his party back from opposition to govt and served almost eight and a half years as PM.

His funeral was vey low key and even to that one the Queen did not attend.
However those who were supporters of Harold Wilson didn't take that as significant because other than for war leader Winston Churchill, who was afforded an official state funeral, the Queen had not attended any others.

I do take your point but by the Queen not going, she would have maintained a 'neutral' stance, by going she has broken that stance.
She could have made a broadcast acclaiming Margaret Thatcher's strength and achievements but to actually go to the funeral makes, in my view anyway, a far greater statement and one that will also likely only heighten the divisions already there.

I am a Monarchist but I see no reason whatsoever why the Queen should break protocol and go to this funeral and she certainly should not be going just because Margaret Thatcher was the first and so far only female PM of the UK.
That would be even more wrong.
As a Monarchist,I am really disappointed she is going, to me she is wrong completely to do so.
By all means have Prince Charles or other Royal attend but the Queen should have stayed neutral as she has with all former PMs of her reign, except for Winston Churchill who was a totally unique and exceptional case.

I don't think her not going could be seen as snub to the pro Margaret Thatcher sections, it was expressed with surprise on all news that she had said she was going in the first place, the news stating that the Queen does not usually attend the funerals of former PMs.

It will though be seen as a rejection of the stance of people who were anti Margaret Thatcher and that is why I believe she has made a mistake here in going and she should have been advised to hold the neutral stance and make a simple broadcast or statement.

[arista]

George Galloway was just on SkyNewsHD
he said get Burger King to sponser it.

He is all Objecting No Question Time on Weds
because of her funeral
and said if he is alone on this tomorrow
he will talk for 3 hours in Parliament about why a PMQ's
must happen this week


He is One of a Kind

[Kizzy]

Why is the country grinding to a halt for thatcher?...
Wow, she pulled a right spin stunt here didn't she, how can I stop people talking about welfare reforms?....

[Vicky.]

Why is the country grinding to a halt for thatcher?...
Wow, she pulled a right spin stunt here didn't she, how can I stop people talking about welfare reforms?....

:laugh:

It has come at quite a convenient time for the Tories.

I sense a conspiracy theory coming on :p

[joeysteele]

Being fair to Margaret Thatcher however, even she didn't go for welfare reforms.

I watched George Galloway and rarely do I agree with him but he was right,why was this funeral planned for Wednesday and so remove PMQs.
It makes no difference though if PMQs ae on or not, David Cameron asks more questions than he answers so I would guess he is relieved PMQs are off this week.

This funeral seems to have been planned around David Cameron and the Govts wishes and needs,not that of Baroness Margaret Thatcher.

[arista]

Being fair to Margaret Thatcher however, even she didn't go for welfare reforms.

I watched George Galloway and rarely do I agree with him but he was right,why was this funeral planned for Wednesday and so remove PMQs.
It makes no difference though if PMQs are on or not, David Cameron asks more questions than he answers so I would guess he is relieved PMQs are off this week.

This funeral seems to have been planned around David Cameron and the Govts wishes and needs,not that of Baroness Margaret Thatcher.


But George has a Killer Question
to ask the PM

[Jack_]

http://i.imgur.com/NycKi8I.jpg

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/15/article-2309172-194EB3A2000005DC-241_964x978.jpg
The grand children do not like Jack

[Kizzy]

I would have thought the grandkids would agree with a much smaller affair actually.
Once again nan divides a nation....

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/15/article-2309172-194CEF7E000005DC-362_964x1347.jpg
A female member of the Royal Navy
bows her head as she prepares for
the coffin to pass by on the test run.

[Kizzy]

She's just checking her lippy in her shoes surely?.....

[Jack_]

Just when you thought this party couldn't get any more over the top, Big Ben is to be silenced during the funeral.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22157022

What the **** is going on?

[arista]

Just when you thought this party couldn't get any more over the top, Big Ben is to be silenced during the funeral.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22157022

What the **** is going on?


Only for one day , Jack

[Jack_]

It's as if they're trying to do everything in their power to ensure that a demonstration ensues that they can spin around to label those involved as scum etc to peddle their own agenda as per usual. They are really bringing this all on themselves now, it's a ****ing funeral, not a national party and celebration of Thatcherism with confetti cannons and a performance from Elton John. Can they not tone it down a bit? Nauseating.

[Jack_]

- Tax payer funded when she didn't even request it
- Queen in attendance
- Celebrities invited
- Ding Dong song refused to be played by a publicly funded supposed impartial state broadcaster but an opposing rival campaign song in support of Thatcher is played
- Big Ben silenced for the duration of the funeral

Any people wonder why some are pissed off and demonstrations are being planned? Seriously? This is nothing more than a forced celebration of Thatcherism, if you aren't willing to take part your views are required to be silenced or else you're an insensitive piece of sh*t.

[Cherie]

I actually think the protesters are being manipulated now, and that the government are hoping for it all to kick off. Politically this will suit them well.

[arista]

I actually think the protesters are being manipulated now, and that the government are hoping for it all to kick off. Politically this will suit them well.



Could Be


Jack is caught in the Gang of it all

[joeysteele]

- Tax payer funded when she didn't even request it
- Queen in attendance
- Celebrities invited
- Ding Dong song refused to be played by a publicly funded supposed impartial state broadcaster but an opposing rival campaign song in support of Thatcher is played
- Big Ben silenced for the duration of the funeral

Any people wonder why some are pissed off and demonstrations are being planned? Seriously? This is nothing more than a forced celebration of Thatcherism, if you aren't willing to take part your views are required to be silenced or else you're an insensitive piece of sh*t.

I am in complete agreement with you Jack, this funeral has been hijacked by David Cameron and the Govt in my opinion.
That is in itself as disrespectful than anything else.

It is shocking that no dissenting voices are expected to be able to shown. I am totally dismayed at the planning of this funeral.
I am sick of the attempts of suppression of any anti voices and I am totally neutral as to her anyway,however this is getting, as you point out, ridiculous now.
What a farce.

[Kizzy]

Of course... Could see it coming a mile off.

[Vicky.]

Just when you thought this party couldn't get any more over the top, Big Ben is to be silenced during the funeral.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22157022

What the **** is going on?

Sorry but :joker:

This whole thing is an absolute farce

[Lee.]

Sorry but :joker:

This whole thing is an absolute farce

Its incredible. I'm almost speechless.

I for one will not even turn the telly on on Wednesday morning. I find the whole thing tasteless.

[Lee.]

kZzXqUH-hNk

A few good points from Mr G

[Jack_]

George :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

[arista]

kZzXqUH-hNk

A few good points from Mr G


Yes I think PMQ's could be on early (one day only)
and then still the Funeral goes ahead


I agree George makes some Valid points.


He will speak for 3 hours if he has to
Solid Man.

[Jack_]

-9DuNUwzC5Y

I remember this, guess it's relevant now.

Frankie :laugh2:

[Brother Leon]

Gotta love how straight up Galloway is :worship:

[arista]

cNG8HmhcrxY

George On SkyNews today

[Jack_]

I actually think it's a lot more disrespectful that her wishes for her own ****ing funeral are being ignored than it is for people to be planning a demonstration on the day. Whatever somebody has requested happens on the day of their own funeral, that's what happens. It is not up to anybody else to dictate how someone else's funeral pans out or is indeed funded.

As she famously said, 'there is no such thing as society'...well then, why is society footing the bill for this national endorsement of Thatcherism?

[King Gizzard]

Don't like George but he made some good points, shame the news channels are just using it to laugh at/ridicule him though

[joeysteele]

I agree that George Galloway made really good points too, I also think he is speaking for far more people than the media would like us to think he is.

Very valid points. Even Ming Campbell couldn't really come back at him with anything constructive against what he had said.

[Kizzy]

What could he say? this is a show that puts anything SYCO could ever throw together to shame... :joker:

[Jack_]

Some more good stuff from George:

SLbFWivsfFE

I am disgusted by that police officer (on a horse...I mean seriously) hitting a man over the head with a truncheon at 2:55, all this as a result of one of her policies. Just vile.

Watched the first 15 minutes so far, definitely worth watching (first 10 minutes are good enough). He starts speaking at 3 minutes in, and raises a good point about the BBC's censorship of the campaign song.

[Nedusa]

-9DuNUwzC5Y

I remember this, guess it's relevant now.

Frankie :laugh2:

Fantastic.... Right on the money....!!!!!