6-Year-Old Transgender Girl Banned From Bathrooms

[lily.]

Coy Mathis Case: School District Refuses To Enter Into Mediation With 6-Year-Old Transgender Girl Banned From Bathrooms

The family of a 6-year-old transgender Colorado girl who was banned from using her school's girls' bathroom are disappointed that the school district is refusing to enter into mediation talks with them so she could return to the school, according to The Colorado Springs Gazette.

Coy Mathis, a first-grader who had been attending Eagleside Elementary School in Fountain, Colo., is now being home schooled after the school told her in January that she could not longer use the girls' bathroom. Fox31 reports that the school told them Coy's only options were to use the nurse's bathroom, the boy's bathroom or the staff bathroom.

Coy was born a boy, but identifies as a transgender female and had been attending the school since 2011, however her parents say not until January of this year had the school confronted them with this.

So, her parents, Kathryn and Jeremy Mathis, filed a complaint against Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8 with the Colorado Civil Rights Division in February with the hopes that the school would change its stance, according to The Denver Post.

Unfortunately, it appears they will not. The Gazette reports that not only will the school district not enter into mediation with the family, they are also refusing to comment on their decision not to do so.

"They’re creating a giant divide and that’s a huge loss for the school because they have a really good opportunity for their students," Kathryn told Fox 31 KDVR.com. "They’re using it as a way to discriminate instead."

But WPTV cites attorney W. Kelly Dude, who represents Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8, as saying there are no Colorado cases which require public schools to permit transgender students to use restrooms of the gender with which they identify thus far.

Dude added that in ruling that Coy wouldn't be allowed to use the girls' restroom, the school "took into account not only Coy but other students in the building, their parents, and the future impact a boy with male genitals using a girls' bathroom would have as Coy grew older," according to the report.

"However, I'm certain you can appreciate that as Coy grows older and his male genitals develop along with the rest of his body, at least some parents and students are likely to become uncomfortable with his continued use of the girls' restroom," Dude added.

But Coy's family says that separating their daughter from the rest of her classmates sends a message that it is okay to discriminate.

Last month, Fountain-Fort Carson School District 8 released this statement about their decision:

The parents of Coy Mathis have filed a charge of discrimination with the Colorado Division of Civil Rights. They have chosen to publicize this matter by appearing on a nationally televised show with their child, sharing their point of view with national and local media, and holding a public press conference to announce the filing of the charge. The District firmly believes it has acted reasonably and fairly with respect to this issue. However, the District believes the appropriate and proper forum for discussing the issues identified in the charge is through the Division of Civil Rights process. The District is preparing a response to the charge which it will submit to the Division. Therefore, the District will not comment further on this matter out of respect for the process which the parents have initiated.

Source (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/08/coy-mathis-case-district-_n_2838235.html)



I might not be popular for saying this, but I think 6 years old is far too young to identify as anything. At that age, they might as well identify as a cat or a dog. I think this whole thing boils down to attention-seeking parents. It's kinda sad.

[Ninastar]

i totally agree.

[Mrluvaluva]

I totally agree. What 6 year old knows what they want in life? It all sounds a bit strange?

[Kazanne]

Source (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/08/coy-mathis-case-district-_n_2838235.html)



I might not be popular for saying this, but I think 6 years old is far too young to identify as anything. At that age, they might as well identify as a cat or a dog. I think this whole thing boils down to attention-seeking parents. It's kinda sad.

This is a difficult one especially when your not in that situation but I agree 6 is too young to be pinning labels.

[Z]

I think someone posted a thread about this recently, I agree, how could you possibly know at that age?

[Omah]

i totally agree.

I totally agree.

I totally agree.

[Shaun]

eh, who knows. It's pretty ignorant to just say outright that 6 year olds don't know what they want to be, or how they want to be treated. It's not like it's a discipline issue. It might just be a phase, and a harmless one.

[Benjamin]

Even so, they were born a boy.

[Jack_]

Yeah cause even if she (he) did use the girl's bathroom she's (he's) really going to come onto one of them aged 6 years old :rolleyes: ******s

[Benjamin]

Clearly this family are desperate for money and using their child to get some.

[Shaun]

Even so, they were born a boy.

So are all transgender people who later go on to be female... is there a cut-off point now? Where exactly should it be?

[Jack_]

Even so, they were born a boy.

So no transgender person should be able to use the toilets of the gender that they identify as? How liberating

[Benjamin]

Yeah cause even if she (he) did use the girl's bathroom she's (he's) really going to come onto one of them aged 6 years old :rolleyes: ******s

The child is a boy. He should be using the boy bathrooms regardless if he or his parents want him to be girl. He is not.

If you were to allow him this now, at what age would there be a cut off point for him using the female toilets? Or wouldn't there be?

He is six years old, you don;t know what you want or who you are at this age, and still belive this is just the parents wanting some money.

[Ninastar]

eh, who knows. It's pretty ignorant to just say outright that 6 year olds don't know what they want to be, or how they want to be treated. It's not like it's a discipline issue. It might just be a phase, and a harmless one.

but in most cases, it seems like the parent's are pushing for them to feel this way. i don't think it's fair at all.

they should know what makes you a boy and what makes you a girl. i dont think they can properly understand what some adults struggle to understand themselves. this isn't something parents can teach IMO

i dont want to come across as 'ignorant' or 'transphobic', i just don't think it's right when parents bring their children up like this.

[Z]

You haven't even started to sexually develop at age six, your only references for what your gender is, is what society tells you - e.g. girls wear pink and like Barbies, boys like football and fighting - kids are kids, they're not hormonal and they're not sexual entities. Your gender is a societal construct until you have the capability to know it, in my opinion. Six years old is not when you start to become aware of yourself.

[Shaun]

pushing... maybe... and throwing them into the limelight is, I agree, unfortunate (although the afterthought of fighting prejudice, usually)...

on the flip side of the coin if the kid did genuinely grow up to be a transgender consenting adult, and they'd forced them to act like a "normal boy" (which, by the way, is a really sexist attitude) as a child, it'd be decried as immoral, no?

[Shaun]

and wanting some money? from who? if anything they're losing it in legal battles

[Benjamin]

pushing... maybe... and throwing them into the limelight is, I agree, unfortunate (although the afterthought of fighting prejudice, usually)...

on the flip side of the coin if the kid did genuinely grow up to be a transgender consenting adult, and they'd forced them to act like a "normal boy" (which, by the way, is a really sexist attitude) as a child, it'd be decried as immoral, no?

Forcing them to be something there not is immoral, yes, but this in particular isn't. They have been given options, either use the boys and if they don't want to use them then they have the nurses toilets or staff toilets, so they are not really being forced into anything if they don't want to, but they also have to think about all the other children.

These ignorant parents cannot expect the whole world to bow down to their demands because their child may feel uncomfortable when him being in their may make the other children feel uncomfortable.

[Z]

I don't think there's any right answer to this predicament at this stage, time will tell. If this child does grow up and continues to wish to be a female, then I agree that it is wrong to harshly judge the parents and the child for this situation, but you have to admit that it seems fairly preposterous that a six year old has decided he wants to be raised as a girl. It's unusually early to reach such a conclusion, and an extremely well informed decision made by a very young mind.

[Benjamin]

So no transgender person should be able to use the toilets of the gender that they identify as? How liberating

You got it. I don't care if that makes me ignorant. For example, why should I be made to feel uncomfortable in a toilet because somebody else is uncomfortable in another? How is that fair?

[Shaun]

I don't think there's any right answer to this predicament at this stage, time will tell.

that much is probably true :laugh: given the lack of clarity on the whole nature vs. nurture debate on a variety of things - sexuality, gender identity, mental illness, sociopathy - it's awkward.

But I think that most people use bathrooms for two reasons: to piss and to defecate. This whole "what if he shows his willy to girls!" taboo is really quite offensive. It's suggesting that transgenders are sexual deviants.

Unless of course the school's parents are just of the "I don't like this! It's new!" variety in which case... that's progress for you :laugh:

[Shaun]

Although that opens up the debate as to why we have separate toilets at all... and now I can't find an argument in favour of them :suspect: LOL

[Withano]

You got it. I don't care if that makes me ignorant. For example, why should I be made to feel uncomfortable in a toilet because somebody else is uncomfortable in another? How is that fair?

I agree.. Whats stopping a 50 year old sexual predator putting on a mini skirt and going in the wrong bathroom claiming its how he feels on the inside. One rule for all tbh.

[Shaun]

I agree.. Whats stopping a 50 year old sexual predator putting on a mini skirt and going in the wrong bathroom claiming its how he feels on the inside. One rule for all tbh.

What's stopping a 50 year old sexual predator is the law. That's like saying "but what if a male drug dealer uses the girls toilets to deal drugs?"

uh... he'd get caught?

this kid most likely wants a poo.

[Z]

Although that opens up the debate as to why we have separate toilets at all... and now I can't find an argument in favour of them :suspect: LOL

LOL I know right, I can't think of any good reason beyond "because it stops men from sexually assaulting women", as if someone who's going to commit a sexual assault is going to be stopped by a sign that says it's not for their gender. "Oh, I was going to show her my genitals, but I'm male and that's the female bathroom so now I guess I can't. :("

[Withano]

What's stopping a 50 year old sexual predator is the law. That's like saying "but what if a male drug dealer uses the girls toilets to deal drugs?"

uh... he'd get caught?

this kid most likely wants a poo.

If a man dressed as a woman entered the womens bathroom, how would anybody know if hes a pervert or if he feels that he is woman in a mans body, theres no way to tell really.. I'd say post-op is the only exception.

[Jack_]

You got it. I don't care if that makes me ignorant. For example, why should I be made to feel uncomfortable in a toilet because somebody else is uncomfortable in another? How is that fair?

Why the **** would you feel uncomfortable about using a toilet with a woman who identifies as a man when (hang on I need to break this down cause this is quite complex)

A) Let's say they're straight, so are attracted to women...you aren't included in that
B) Let's say they're gay, so are attracted to men...you are gay, but does that mean you're uncomfortable around other men in the toilet with you when some of them might be gay too? Because this person's transgender does that automatically mean they're going to be more likely to come onto you or something?

And if that's not the reason you'd feel uncomfortable then I don't know what else would...why would you care about someone else having a piss in the same room as you when you're doing it with a bunch of other people anyway? Does it matter what gender someone is? You're all there to do one thing and one thing only...go to the toilet...

Why should a woman who feels she was born into the wrong body and identifies as a male and has lived their life struggling to come to terms with that be forced into going into a room that's made for the gender he doesn't identify with all just so that you can piss in peace? I mean really? And I'm talking about transgender people in general here not this 6 year old

And on the subject of gender segregated toilets as people are bringing that up, the whole notion of it is ludicrous, it's a complete social construct (as is gender) and so why should we split people up into where people piss and sh*t? It's just dumb.

[Mrluvaluva]

eh, who knows. It's pretty ignorant to just say outright that 6 year olds don't know what they want to be, or how they want to be treated. It's not like it's a discipline issue. It might just be a phase, and a harmless one.

I said I wanted to be a doctor at that age amongst other things. I didn't really. So for saying a 6 year old doesn't truly know their own mind people are branded as ignorant?

[Benjamin]

Why the **** would you feel uncomfortable about using a toilet with a woman who identifies as a man when (hang on I need to break this down cause this is quite complex)

A) Let's say they're straight, so are attracted to women...you aren't included in that
B) Let's say they're gay, so are attracted to men...you are gay, but does that mean you're uncomfortable around other men in the toilet with you when some of them might be gay too? Because this person's transgender does that automatically mean they're going to be more likely to come onto you or something?

And if that's not the reason you'd feel uncomfortable then I don't know what else would...why would you care about someone else having a piss in the same room as you when you're doing it with a bunch of other people anyway? Does it matter what gender someone is? You're all there to do one thing and one thing only...go to the toilet...

Why should a woman who feels she was born into the wrong body and identifies as a male and has lived their life struggling to come to terms with that be forced into going into a room that's made for the gender he doesn't identify with all just so that you can piss in peace? I mean really? And I'm talking about transgender people in general here not this 6 year old

And on the subject of gender segregated toilets as people are bringing that up, the whole notion of it is ludicrous, it's a complete social construct (as is gender) and so why should we split people up into where people piss and sh*t? It's just dumb.


I'm not saying I do, I just used myself as an example.

But on the flip side, again, another example, why should a man who identifies as a woman be allowed to use the female toilets if it makes the other women feel uncomfortable? How is that fair on them?

It works two ways, Jack.


And to answer your question why does it matter. Because that is how we have been brought up. Your whole insight is that people should change their views, but not everyone can just switch their views at the drop of a hat, especially ones that until recently have been considered the norm by society.

[Jack_]

If a man dressed as a woman entered the womens bathroom, how would anybody know if hes a pervert or if he feels that he is woman in a mans body, theres no way to tell really.. I'd say post-op is the only exception.

How do you know if anyone in the toilet with you is a pervert or not? So to be a pervert you dress up in silly hats and fancy dress, is that right? The same way that terrorists have long beards and turbans? You know, that old stereotype. Anyone could be a pervert. Shall we just scrap public toilets because we need to protect ourselves from all these potential perverts? You can't live your life like that. If someone's going to come onto you in a toilet, they're going to come onto you in a toilet. That's the bottom line of it - no dress or different room is going to change that.

[Jack_]

I'm not saying I do, I just used myself as an example.

But on the flip side, again, another example, why should a man who identifies as a woman be allowed to use the female toilets if it makes the other women feel uncomfortable? How is that fair on them?

It works two ways, Jack.


And to answer your question why does it matter. Because that is how we have been brought up. Your whole insight is that people should change their views, but not everyone can just switch their views at the drop of a hat, especially ones that until recently have been considered the norm by society.

Because all of what I've just said to you is what I'd say to anyone else that felt uncomfortable pissing in the same room as someone of the opposite sex. If that is seriously the reason they're uncomfortable, just because they're not the same sex, and not because they feel they'd be attacked (which in itself is stupid as well) then as far as I'm concerned they can go piss outside. If I had it my way segrated toilets wouldn't exist but they sadly do, and so I don't feel it's right to outcast transgender people further by saying they can't go in the toilet of the gender that they feel they are.

And I know that's how we've been brought up, but it's all just a social construct, and these social constructs should always be questioned. Who made these rules? Why do they exist? Do they need to exist? Just because we've been taught that and socialised into thinking that it doesn't make it right, in fact it makes it anything but.

[Withano]

How do you know if anyone in the toilet with you is a pervert or not? So to be a pervert you dress up in silly hats and fancy dress, is that right? The same way that terrorists have long beards and turbans? You know, that old stereotype. Anyone could be a pervert. Shall we just scrap public toilets because we need to protect ourselves from all these potential perverts? You can't live your life like that. If someone's going to come onto you in a toilet, they're going to come onto you in a toilet. That's the bottom line of it - no dress or different room is going to change that.

Alright, I'm just saying, perhaps one of the reasons many restaurants and bars might stop cross dressers from using the wrong bathroom might be for peoples safety. Stopping all men from using the womens bathroom is obviously ultimately more safe for everybody.
And in this thread inparticular, there is absolutely no reason for children to use the wrong bathroom. They are sexless until puberty.

[Benjamin]

Because all of what I've just said to you is what I'd say to anyone else that felt uncomfortable pissing in the same room as someone of the opposite sex. If that is seriously the reason they're uncomfortable, just because they're not the same sex, and not because they feel they'd be attacked (which in itself is stupid as well) then as far as I'm concerned they can go piss outside. If I had it my way segrated toilets wouldn't exist but they sadly do, and so I don't feel it's right to outcast transgender people further by saying they can't go in the toilet of the gender that they feel they are.

And I know that's how we've been brought up, but it's all just a social construct, and these social constructs should always be questioned. Who made these rules? Why do they exist? Do they need to exist? Just because we've been taught that and socialised into thinking that it doesn't make it right, in fact it makes it anything but.

Okay, Jack. Go ask your granmother how she would feel about a man using the same public toilet as her. And if she felt like that, you'd honestly tell her that she can just "go piss outside"?

[Omah]

Segregation is INCREASING, not DECREASING .....

Safety and privacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_segregation#Safety_and_privacy

Some sex segregation occurs for reasons of safety and privacy. Worldwide, laws often mandate sex segregation in bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, and similar spaces, based on a common perceived need for privacy. This type of segregation policy can protect against sexual harassment and sexual abuse. To combat groping, street harassment, and eve teasing of women in crowded public places, some countries have also designated women only spaces. For example, sex-segregated buses, women-only passenger cars, and compartments on trains have been introduced in Mexico, Japan, Russia, and other countries to reduce sexual harassment.

Some places in Germany, Korea, and China all have women's parking spaces, often for related safety issues. Many more countries, including Canada, the United States, Italy, Japan, and the United Kingdom also grant parking privileges to pregnant women, for safety or access reasons.

Sex segregation rooted in safety considerations can furthermore extend beyond the physical to the psychological and emotional as well. A refuge for battered mothers or wives may refuse to admit men, even those who are themselves the victims of domestic violence, both to exclude those who might commit or threaten violence to women and because women who have been subjected to abuse by a male might feel threatened by the presence of any man. Women’s health clinics and women’s resource centers, whether in Africa or North America, are further examples of spaces where sex segregation may facilitate private and highly personal decisions. Women-only banks may be similarly intended to provide autonomy to women’s decision making.

:idc:

[Ninastar]

As a woman, if I saw what I thought was a man in a female toilet, I'd be uncomfortable/worried. I can't see many women being okay with it.

[Jake.]

I don't agree with the child using the other toilet at his age. What makes the parents so sure of anything, at that age anyway? Obviously we don't know how the mind works and we don't know what the kid is feeling or thinking, but I feel that it is far too young.

[Jake.]

Not only that, why would the child find it comfortable using the female toilet at that age? Why would a 6 year old know the difference?

[Jessica.]

I think she should be allowed to use whatever toilets she feels comfortable going to, what is the big deal? Especially since she is transgender, that's a part of her body she wouldn't be putting on display, I have never seen another person leave the toilet with their pants down, that's one of the things kids learn as soon as they are potty trained, to pull their pants up, I don't see what the problem is.

In regards to adults, I don't like peeing in the same room as ANYBODY so it wouldn't make a difference who else was in there, a lot of homes only have one bathroom, does that mean it should be for one specific gender too?

[Shaun]

I said I wanted to be a doctor at that age amongst other things. I didn't really. So for saying a 6 year old doesn't truly know their own mind people are branded as ignorant?

I said it was ignorant to totally write off the idea that a six year old is capable of self-determination (at least when it comes to gender)

[GypsyGoth]

I don't see why an effeminate boy can't use the boys toilets.

[Roy Mars III]

I do think six is too young to truly determinate something like that, but I don't really see a problem with her being allowed to use the girl's bathroom at that age if she wants. She obviously expressed that she feels uncomfortable using the boy's one so I see no reason to not let her use the toilet she feels most comfortable with.

The male/female toilet separation needs to stay though. I will be damned if they go to unisex bathrooms and get rid of urinals. I would install a urinal in my house if I could.

[MTVN]

Agree with those who think six is too young tbh, it's a very complicated issue and even if you ask most transgenders they would probably say it took them years to fully comprehend and get to grips with who they are, it's something that needs quite a lot of maturity imo

Regarding the toilet issue in general I think they should stay gender separate, though maybe they could have some gender neutral ones in some major places as an alternative (rather than a replacement)

[Jack_]

Why gender is a social construct and so why as such segregated toilets aren't necessary (it's even mentioned in this):

How the Gender Binary impacts those who don't fit the mold

Have you ever been stared at? Laughed at? Ridiculed and humiliated incessantly? Wondered if you were a man or a woman? Or both? Or neither? Have you ever not fit the mold that society wanted you to? Have you ever felt different and unaccepted for reasons beyond your control? If you answered yes to any of these questions, a significant part of the reason is our socially constructed binary gender system. If you have always fit the mold and never really questioned the essence of gender and sexual orientation, then this article is especially pertinent to you. The trials and tribulations suffered by the transgendered mostly go unnoticed and this needs to change, for the benefit of those being mistreated and misunderstood; at the expense of society as a whole. The restrictive and exclusive nature of the binary system complicates a transgendered person’s ability to self-identify and consequently complicates the relationship between gender and sexual orientation.

In order to fully comprehend the struggles of being transgendered, one must first define what it means to be transgendered and its relationship to gender and sexual orientation. According to dictionary.com, transgender is defined as “a person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser.” This definition is not accurate as it falls within the seemingly inevitable realms of the binary view of “opposite sexes”. This is simply unacceptable. The social construction of gender has resulted in stereotypes so embedded in society that most of us don't realize it, not because we don't want to, but more due to lack of exposure and awareness. There are male restrooms and female restrooms. There are no special restrooms for transgenders but this does not seem odd to most people. According to Riki Wilchins, an activist who focused her work primarily on issues of gender, explains the culturally embedded stereotypes of Man and Woman. She claims: “ Man is the universal. Woman is defined by her opposition to Man, by what she does not have, the Penis, and the one thing she has that Man does not, reproduction and sexuality.”(p57) But what do Man and Woman have to do with gender? And in turn, how does gender affect sexuality? In the case of transgenders, this is an especially difficult issue to resolve. In order to attempt to answer these questions, specific case studies will be examined and analyzed.

Mollie Biewald was a brave and daring individual. At the tender age of 15, she wrote about growing up both confused and confident. She recalls being in seventh grade, “when three or four times a day I'm asked whether I'm a boy or a girl, and when I answer they laugh at me.” (p 121) Furthermore, her teachers (people who are supposed to be respectable, tolerant, role models), referred to her with male pronouns for weeks, even when one day she was brave enough to wear a skirt to school. At 12 years old, the binary system seriously complicated Mollie's ability to self identify. Genetically, Mollie has all the biological characteristics of a female. But does her biological structure define her gender or her sexuality? On the surface, one would probably just assume Mollie is a butch dyke or just simply a lesbian. But this is not the case. Mollie is sexually attracted to girls but she personally feels like a male. Does that make her straight? It's hard to define sexual orientation when it is so difficult to identify as either just male or female and labels prove to be inaccurate.

What people need to understand is that there are separate male and female biological organs, but these biological components alone do not encompass gender. Unlike transsexuals who choose to have surgery to alter their perceived “gender”, many transgenders do not want surgery. Perhaps this is because we are born the way we are, and cosmetically changing yourself does not truly change the person on the inside thus making it somewhat of a superficial procedure. Some transsexuals would completely disagree because surgery finalizes the transition. But what if some people don't want a transition? Why is it so important to fit a societal mold? And more importantly, when are people going to realize that we are all PEOPLE, and we should not be restricted to being defined as a label. We should not be judged by our “gender” or sexual preferences, but by our actions.

It is evident that the binary system complicates a transgendered person's ability to self-identify because a system with only two genders is a like a huge spectrum with Man on one end and Woman on the other. But what about the gray area, all that space inside the spectrum that is tossed out because society constructed it that way. This brings us to our next case study, Ethan Zimmerman, a self proclaimed bi national, multigendered transsfag attracted to boys of both sexes. Ethan was born with a female anatomy and is attracted to men. People would ask Ethan why 'she' wasn't straight since 'she' liked men. Ethan was an attractive female, even a model, so people had a really hard time understanding why she would want to have surgery (only chest surgery at the time). In his own words, Ethan would contemplate, “ What will my mother think? Was I born this way? How come I never liked being a lesbian and love sucking dick so much? Do I deserve to be here? Why are people so afraid of me? Sometimes I wish I was dead. Is it freaky in this body or what? I like being ****ed in the ****, so I must not be a real transsexual. If I had a real dick I'd be happy. If I had a real dick, I'd be a fag who is sometimes sad.” (pp191-192) Those are overwhelming thoughts to deal with on a regular basis but this case just illustrates how difficult it is to distinguish the relationship between gender and sexuality. How would the binary system react to Ethan's case. Quite frankly, it can't. No matter what label it uses, it would be inaccurate.

The final case study is Mr. Barb Greve. Born with a female anatomy, Barb always identified as a male, as early as he can remember. Although he surrounded himself with all types of women, mostly lesbian and feminist, he realized the only thing he really had in common with them was the sexual attraction towards women. He sums up gender nicely, “ I've learned that gender is not as simple as biological sex (which can be altered); nor can we simplify and limit gender's definition to social constructs. I believe gender to be a combination between biology and social roles. We all choose to express our gender in different ways. For some people, this means limiting how they are in the world; for others, it means challenging stereotypes.” (p249) Barb struggled with gender and self-identity for years, just wanting to fit a stereotype, a demon induced by the binary system. There is clearly a distinction between gender expression and gender identity. Barb unsuccessfully tried to fit the mold of either male or female. This is what is most detrimental about the binary system in society. The need to make gender one or the other sacrifices and suppresses life experiences of people like Barb. Barb concludes that being forced to choose either male or female, “would mean denying a large part of who I am. My journey is not about transitioning into one of the two acceptable genders. It is not a political statement. It is about becoming a whole person. It is about being the best person I can be: a transgendered guy named Barb.” (p249) These are exceptionally brave words.

In a society devoid of more than two 'accepted' genders, it is time we realize the futility of such an oppressive system. First there was the gay community, then the lesbian and gay community, and then the lesbian, gay, and bi community finally resulting in the lesbian, gay, bi, and transgender community (LGBT). Gay, lesbian, and bisexuality all focus on sexuality and much less so on gender identity and gender expression. The LGB are all comparatively easy terms to classify but the T is the more difficult part. In the binary system, being gay or lesbian works because it fits the mold of male and female gender. Even bisexuality somehow fits the mold because gender is not taken into account, solely the fact that a person is attracted to both sexes. It is time to refute all the gender stereotypes and accept and embrace that there is much more to gender than just male or female. Until we do, brave and confused people will continually be denigrated by a hierarchical society with such skewed norms. What is normal? Or natural? Only what society decides and dictates. Thus there is still hope. I am a straight male, but I like fashion, emotions, and passions, characteristics typically associated with the female mold. Does that make me transgendered? No. It makes me a human. The one intrinsic value we all share. We are who we are, and we should not have to put ourselves down or live in fear and confusion. Clearly gender itself is a restrictive term and it clearly not mutually exclusive to sexual orientation. We are people attracted to other people. I think it's fair to say we all want to love and to be loved. The way to break the binary system is to be open minded. The seemingly less apparent and most important part of the binary system is its affect on people who define themselves as straight males and females, who 'fit' the mold. The problem with this is fear. Once you fit the mold, why detour away from it? So what if a super athletic football player likes to cross dress? Or if a woman uses a strap on to pretend she has a penis? The dichotomy between male and female is so restricting, it polarizes distinct attributes typically associated with either male or female, which over time, has created stereotypes deeply engrained into society. If anything, the transgendered community should work as an eye opener to all those who have never really questioned gender or sexual orientation. How many straight people ask themselves why they are straight and not gay? Not many. But by being true to yourself and not fitting the mold, you are not restricting yourself to such a flawed binary system. Society constructed this system, with the right work, awareness, and exposure, society can just as easily deconstruct a hierarchical system that encourages stereotypes and suppressed the beauty of uniqueness and individuality.

http://genderbinary.wikidot.com/gender-binary-outside-mold

[MTVN]

I don't really see gender roles as that oppressive, it's something that will always exist because there are very real and legitimate differences between the sexes, and tbh all behaviour and norms are kind of dictated by the culture and time in which you're born. People are no longer expected to live up to extreme gender stereotypes these days though, there's a lot of scope for nonconformism and a lot of overlap across the two genders.

Segregated toilets aren't merely there as a tool of gender oppression either, they do have a very obvious practical basis

[Ninastar]

I don't really see gender roles as that oppressive, it's something that will always exist because there are very real and legitimate differences between the sexes, and tbh all behaviour and norms are kind of dictated by the culture and time in which you're born. People are no longer expected to live up to extreme gender stereotypes these days though, there's a lot of scope for nonconformism and a lot of overlap across the two genders.

Segregated toilets aren't merely there as a tool of gender oppression either, they do have a very obvious practical basis

:worship:

[Shaun]

I think we should all just use the disabled toilets since they're gender-neutral and roomy.

[AnnieK]

I think gender specific bathrooms are required for a number of reasons.
The main reason being men's bathrooms smell awful, why should we women be subjected to that? LOL

Six is very young to have decided on transgender issues. Once puberty hits I can understand it a little more, I wanted to be a boy when I was around that age as I had an older brother who I idolised but I didn't grow up transgender. If this child ultimately continues on this path, concessions should be made but the feelings of all pupils should be considered, not just one.

[Omah]

Six is very young to have decided on transgender issues. Once puberty hits I can understand it a little more, I wanted to be a boy when I was around that age as I had an older brother who I idolised but I didn't grow up transgender. If this child ultimately continues on this path, concessions should be made but the feelings of all pupils should be considered, not just one.

BIB - Good point about growing up ..... :idc:

[Patrick]

What a ******ing deluded bint.

[Nedusa]

Why is this child labelled as transgender ? This child is a boy has male genitals so should be regarded as MALE. He should use the boys toilet along with the other boys. All talk of gender awareness or gender re-alignment is totally inappropriate in relation to a six year old child.

Quite frankly I'm shocked the parents of this child are trying to decide his sexuality when nature has already made that choice. Maybe there is more to this story than has been reported but on the face of it, it looks like a gross subversion of this little boy's right to a normal upbringing.

[thesheriff443]

for many years there as been a large number of doctors and psychologist that believe that your life is pre set by the age of five.

[thesheriff443]

I think we should all just use the disabled toilets since they're gender-neutral and roomy.

if only it was that simple:hugesmile:

[Vicky.]

As a woman, if I saw what I thought was a man in a female toilet, I'd be uncomfortable/worried. I can't see many women being okay with it.

It doesnt bother me now, because I spend a lot of time in gay bars (where anyone just uses any toilet :laugh: ) but a few years ago it would have. Even if the person is a woman inside a mans body, they still look like a man :S

[Vicky.]

I do think six is too young to truly determinate something like that, but I don't really see a problem with her being allowed to use the girl's bathroom at that age if she wants. She obviously expressed that she feels uncomfortable using the boy's one so I see no reason to not let her use the toilet she feels most comfortable with.

The male/female toilet separation needs to stay though. I will be damned if they go to unisex bathrooms and get rid of urinals. I would install a urinal in my house if I could.

Yeah but where where does it end? Kids at senior school could start saying they were transgendered just to get in the womens loos/mens loos. I remember the guys at our seniors (in the younger years) would always try to get into our loos.

I'm not saying transgendered people do this for this reason, just that some others would take the piss with it.

[Ammi]

..I'm really conflicted and yes, a bit confused about this..from what I understand, Coy was 'confirmed' to be transgender at 4yrs old by a psychologist...so are we saying that sexuality is a psychological thing..because I always understood it to be physical and something you had no control over....

[Vicky.]

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric_disorders/sexuality_and_sexual_disorders/gender_identity_disorder_and_transsexualism.html

Gender role behaviors fall on a continuum of traditional masculinity or femininity, with a growing cultural recognition that some people do not fit into the traditional male-female dichotomy. Western cultures are more tolerant of tomboyish behaviors in young girls (generally not considered a gender identity disorder) than effeminate or “sissy” behaviors in boys. Many boys role-play as girls or mothers, including trying on their sister's or mother's clothes. Usually, this behavior is part of normal development. Only in extreme cases does this behavior and an associated expressed wish to be the other sex persist. Most boys with gender identity disorder of childhood do not have the disorder as adults, but many are homosexual or bisexual as adults.

Quite interesting...

[Ammi]

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric_disorders/sexuality_and_sexual_disorders/gender_identity_disorder_and_transsexualism.html



Quite interesting...

..yeah, it's interesting but also with the nature/nurture thing..?..I thought that most transgenders weren't born with complicated chromosome structure, but just a male/female one...

[Nedusa]

..I'm really conflicted and yes, a bit confused about this..from what I understand, Coy was 'confirmed' to be transgender at 4yrs old by a psychologist...so are we saying that sexuality is a psychological thing..because I always understood it to be physical and something you had no control over....

was 'confirmed' to be transgender at 4yrs old....

What a crock of Bull**** !!!!, why anyone would let some snake oil two bit wannabe psychiatrist make this kind of pronouncement on a 4 year old child is almost beyond belief. And for the poor gullible parents to actually believe this rubbish adds insult to injury.

Surely the authorities have to step in and tell these parents to get a grip and stop acting on such nonsense. This child could be irreparably damaged due to this , people need to wake up and take a step back. Stories like these never cease to amaze me...!!!!

[Ammi]

was 'confirmed' to be transgender at 4yrs old....

What a crock of Bull**** !!!!, why anyone would let some snake oil two bit wannabe psychiatrist make this kind of pronouncement on a 4 year old child is almost beyond belief. And for the poor gullible parents to actually believe this rubbish adds insult to injury.

Surely the authorities have to step in and tell these parents to get a grip and stop acting on such nonsense. This child could be irreparably damaged due to this , people need to wake up and take a step back. Stories like these never cease to amaze me...!!!!

..yeah, but that's why I said it as 'confirmed'...I'm really not sure what to think about this case tbh because to me, the parents encouraging her to be a boy is no different to parents who feel that a boy is a boy and a girl is a girl and that's what they have to be, because they're not giving her the leeway to be male either...they're still 'pushing her down a path..', surely..?...

[Vicky.]

Yup, comes across as the parents rather than the child to me too. I suspect they wanted a girl and had a boy and never got over it so are pushing this child to be something they are not. I just do not think at 6 year old that kids even know what they are. My friend at school was a proper tomboy, used to say she wanted to be a boy, was certain she wanted to be a boy. She grew out of it. As do most kids. I even had a friend who wanted to be a dolphin when he drew up :S

The child as been given the option to not use the male toilets if it makes them uncomfortable.. Why the parents are pushing and pushing when it would make a lot of other people feel uncomfortable to give into their wishes is questionable...

Obviously there is the chance that the child actually is transgendered, but from the info we have, it seems to be more the parents.

Out of curiosity..transgendered adults..are they able to use the 'opposite' toilets? Or expected to use their biological ones?

[Niamh.]

Yup, comes across as the parents rather than the child to me too. I suspect they wanted a girl and had a boy and never got over it so are pushing this child to be something they are not. I just do not think at 6 year old that kids even know what they are. My friend at school was a proper tomboy, used to say she wanted to be a boy, was certain she wanted to be a boy. She grew out of it. As do most kids. I even had a friend who wanted to be a dolphin when he drew up :S

The child as been given the option to not use the male toilets if it makes them uncomfortable.. Why the parents are pushing and pushing when it would make a lot of other people feel uncomfortable to give into their wishes is questionable...

Obviously there is the chance that the child actually is transgendered, but from the info we have, it seems to be more the parents.

Out of curiosity..transgendered adults..are they able to use the 'opposite' toilets? Or expected to use their biological ones?

My son wanted to be Spiderman when he was six

[Ammi]

Yup, comes across as the parents rather than the child to me too. I suspect they wanted a girl and had a boy and never got over it so are pushing this child to be something they are not. I just do not think at 6 year old that kids even know what they are. My friend at school was a proper tomboy, used to say she wanted to be a boy, was certain she wanted to be a boy. She grew out of it.

The child as been given the option to not use the male toilets. Why the parents are pushing and pushing when it would make a lot of other people feel uncomfortable to give into their wishes is questionable...

Obviously there is the chance that the child actually is transgendered, but from the info we have, it seems to be more the parents.

..I think they have quite a few daughters Vicky..it's a large family and Coy is a twin, I think...but when I first heard this story, I watched some vids of interviews with the parents and the main thing that they kept stressing was how their child dressed and that Coy wasn't happy going out in male clothes..?..but I had two older brothers and was a complete 'tomboy' as a child and I hated wearing a dress..my mum used to make mw wear one on Sundays for church and I couldn't wait to get home to change into jeans...I would never have worn female clothes unless forced to...so there must be something more to it in their minds, yet I can't see any articles or interviews where they comment on anything else..it's confusing...

[Ammi]

My son wanted to be Spiderman when he was six

..and is he..?...Spiderman..?...do you know for sure that he isn't..?...

[Niamh.]

..I think they have quite a few daughters Vicky..it's a large family and Coy is a twin, I think...but when I first heard this story, I watched some vids of interviews with the parents and the main thing that they kept stressing was how their child dressed and that Coy wasn't happy going out in male clothes..?..but I had two older brothers and was a complete 'tomboy' as a child and I hated wearing a dress..my mum used to make mw wear one on Sundays for church and I couldn't wait to get home to change into jeans...I would never have worn female clothes unless forced to...so there must be something more to it in their minds, yet I can't see any articles or interviews where they comment on anything else..it's confusing...

I was exactly the same, I had 3 brothers and I hated anything girlie, I used to have tantrums even at a young age because my mother made me wear a dress sometimes. If you had asked me when I was a kid if I wanted to be a boy or a girl, I probably would have said boy, that didn't make me transgender.

[Niamh.]

..and is he..?...Spiderman..?...do you know for sure that he isn't..?...

:laugh:

[Jake.]

My son wanted to be Spiderman when he was six

You allowed him to sleep in the corner of the ceiling, I hope?

[Niamh.]

You allowed him to sleep in the corner of the ceiling, I hope?

Of Course ;)

[Jake.]

Thank goodness

[Vicky.]

My son wanted to be Spiderman when he was six

You allowed him to sleep in the corner of the ceiling, I hope?

:laugh2:

[Ammi]

I was exactly the same, I had 3 brothers and I hated anything girlie, I used to have tantrums even at a young age because my mother made me wear a dress sometimes. If you had asked me when I was a kid if I wanted to be a boy or a girl, I probably would have said boy, that didn't make me transgender.

..yeah, I would have said the same..I only had one 'girlfriend' and all of the other people I hung out with were my brothers and their friends and I did get bought 'female' gifts, like a Barbie and typewriter and stuff, but I hardly ever really played with them, compared to doing 'boy stuff'..climbing trees, making dens etc..I would much rather have been a boy and I think I probably did think of myself as a boy because when they would say..oh, you can't do this etc, because you're a girl...I would get really annoyed, because I never thought of myself as a girl...this is what confuses me about Coy and her parents because they seem quite hung up on the clothes thing and the sort of toys he/she prefers playing with...that's all they ever mention...plus obviously, the toilet thing...

[Vicky.]

..I think they have quite a few daughters Vicky..it's a large family and Coy is a twin, I think...but when I first heard this story, I watched some vids of interviews with the parents and the main thing that they kept stressing was how their child dressed and that Coy wasn't happy going out in male clothes..?..but I had two older brothers and was a complete 'tomboy' as a child and I hated wearing a dress..my mum used to make mw wear one on Sundays for church and I couldn't wait to get home to change into jeans...I would never have worn female clothes unless forced to...so there must be something more to it in their minds, yet I can't see any articles or interviews where they comment on anything else..it's confusing...

Ah right, I had only read the story in the OP.

I dont think wanting to dress as a boy means the child actually wants to be a boy at all. I hated dresses and such and I didnt turn out to be transgendered. On the other hand, my brother liked to dress up in my grandmothers clothes..he hasnt turned out to be trans either, or a crossdresser. Kids will be kids. I think its ridiculous to 'diagnose' a 6 year old as transgender, I really do. I want to know why the parents would even consider taking the child to a psychiatrist at that age to begin with tbh

[Niamh.]

..yeah, I would have said the same..I only had one 'girlfriend' and all of the other people I hung out with were my brothers and their friends and I did get bought 'female' gifts, like a Barbie and typewriter and stuff, but I hardly ever really played with them, compared to doing 'boy stuff'..climbing trees, making dens etc..I would much rather have been a boy and I think I probably did think of myself as a boy because when they would say..oh, you can't do this etc, because you're a girl...I would get really annoyed, because I never thought of myself as a girl...this is what confuses me about Coy and her parents because they seem quite hung up on the clothes thing and the sort of toys he/she prefers playing with...that's all they ever mention...plus obviously, the toilet thing...

Yeah, the problem is with societies view of how girls and boys should act and what toys they should and shouldn't play with. Now, maybe I'm wrong and this is a genuine case but I do find it hard to believe at that young an age that a child would really know this. And I'm saying that as a person who's been that age and as a mother of two kids who were that age.

[Livia]

When my eldest niece was six, she wanted to be a unicorn.

[Jake.]

When my eldest niece was six, she wanted to be a unicorn.

Was she permitted to use a unicorn-assigned toilet facility?

[Omah]

When my eldest niece was six, she wanted to be a unicorn.

:joker:

[Ammi]

Ah right, I had only read the story in the OP.

I dont think wanting to dress as a boy means the child actually wants to be a boy at all. I hated dresses and such and I didnt turn out to be transgendered. On the other hand, my brother liked to dress up in my grandmothers clothes..he hasnt turned out to be trans either, or a crossdresser. Kids will be kids. I think its ridiculous to 'diagnose' a 6 year old as transgender, I really do. I want to know why the parents would even consider taking the child to a psychiatrist at that age to begin with tbh

..yeah, the problem I'm having understanding it all is that I can't see anything where they give any other reasons..other than that's how Coy feels happiest, as a girl..but they don't explain any reasons for that..and if the psychologist has confirmed it, then does that mean gender is psychological..it's confusing lol...

Yeah, the problem is with societies view of how girls and boys should act and what toys they should and shouldn't play with. Now, maybe I'm wrong and this is a genuine case but I do find it hard to believe at that young an age that a child would really know this. And I'm saying that as a person who's been that age and as a mother of two kids who were that age.

..yeah, obviously the focus is on the toilets but that isn't just a society thing, it's cultural as well, so there would still have to be male/female toilets..but another one for both genders as well...

When my eldest niece was six, she wanted to be a unicorn.

...I think if Niamh's son is Spiderman, then your niece might be a unicorn...

[Livia]

Was she permitted to use a unicorn-assigned toilet facility?

Oh yeah... licenced to poo in the street.

[Jake.]

:joker:

[Jords]

Transgender at 6 is ridiculous.

[Josy]

Transgender at 6 is ridiculous.

I agree.

No child at 6 years old has the understanding to make a completely life changing decision like that IMO.

I also agree with the school that this child shouldn't be using the girls toilets.

[Niamh.]

In most of the primary schools here there is no separate bathrooms anyway, they don't come in until Secondary school, any of the primary schools I have seen and nursery schools, just have a couple of cubicles per class

[lostalex]

All bathrooms should be unisex. Problem solved.

Segregation is bad.

[Josy]

All bathrooms should be unisex. Problem solved.

No they shouldnt...

[Ammi]

In most of the primary schools here there is no separate bathrooms anyway, they don't come in until Secondary school, any of the primary schools I have seen and nursery schools, just have a couple of cubicles per class

..that's interesting Niamh because all of the local primary schools here have seperate boy/girl...

[Ammi]

All bathrooms should be unisex. Problem solved.

Segregation is bad.

..but that doesn't allow for different cultures/beliefs though, so it's still segregation...

[lostalex]

..but that doesn't allow for different cultures/beliefs though, so it's still segregation...

Which cultures don't believe in unisex bathrooms? I've never heard of a religion that says "thou shall not crap where the oppossite gender craps". I've never heard of people having separate mens and women's bathrooms at home.

[Niamh.]

I don't see the need for separate bathrooms for younger kids, it's just cubicles like they'd have at home.

[Ammi]

Which cultures don't believe in unisex bathrooms? I've never heard of a religion that says "thou shall not crap where the oppossite gender craps". I've never heard of people having separate mens and women's bathrooms at home.



..I don't think the Islam culture believes in 'free mixing' with men and women and especially if they are both alone...which could be the case in a public toilet...

[lostalex]

..I don't think the Islam culture believes in 'free mixing' with men and women and especially if they are both alone...which could be the case in a public toilet...

But they segregate everything. Much like catholic schools which have all boys or all girls schools... They probably wouldn't even allow a transgendered person to go to their schools in the first place.

But I don't agree with segregation in public schools. If it's a public school, there should be full integration.

[Tom4784]

Ridiculous, I'm guessing the parents are just hoping for a nice settlement.

[Omah]

All bathrooms should be unisex. Problem solved.

Segregation is bad.

I can imagine dirty old men and little boys and girls in public bathrooms ..... :eek:

:nono:

[lily.]

I'm led to believe that this child was a triplet. Two boys and a girl. I'm also led to believe that the girl has some learning difficulties, and was getting a lot of extra attention at home around the time this all kicked off.

If this is true, and I can't find a proper source yet, then is it possible that Coy seen the attention the girl was getting and wanted some of that for himself?

Coy is a triplet -- there was Coy, her brother, Max, and her sister, Lilly. Coy also has a younger sister, Auri, and an older sister, Dakota.
Source (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/colorado-school-bans-transgender-1st-grader-coy-mathis-from-using-girls-restroom-refuses-mediation)

Here is a source about the disabled sister Lilly..
clicky (http://fourtimesthefun.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-one-where-i-weigh-in-on.html)

[Omah]

But they segregate everything. Much like catholic schools which have all boys or all girls schools... They probably wouldn't even allow a transgendered person to go to their schools in the first place.

But I don't agree with segregation in public schools. If it's a public school, there should be full integration.

Does it happen in the "hood" in the USA ?

:conf:

[lostalex]

I can imagine dirty old men and little boys and girls in public bathrooms ..... :eek:

:nono:

wait... why would there be a dirty old man in a unisex bathroom any more than there would be a dirty old man in segregated bathrooms? Who is this dirty old man and where did he come from?

[Niamh.]

I can imagine dirty old men and little boys and girls in public bathrooms ..... :eek:

:nono:

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't send a six year old to a public bathroom on their own and if a perv wants to stalk kids in public Toilets why do you think the fact that the bathrooms are segregated would stop him being perv?

[lostalex]

Does it happen in the "hood" in the USA ?

:conf:

does what happen? unisex bathrooms? no. well i mean there are unisex bathrooms, but they are single bathrooms. Well i'm assuming. I've never been to a school "in the hood".

[lostalex]

This conversation makes me think of Ricki from My So-called Life. He was always hanging out in the girls bathroom and he never caused any problems.

[Niamh.]

I'm led to believe that this child was a triplet. Two boys and a girl. I'm also led to believe that the girl has some learning difficulties, and was getting a lot of extra attention at home around the time this all kicked off.

If this is true, and I can't find a proper source yet, then is it possible that Coy seen the attention the girl was getting and wanted some of that for himself?

ahhh that's a very interesting theory actually, would make sense

[lily.]

Go check out the links I added to that post Niamh.

[Omah]

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't send a six year old to a public bathroom on their own and if a perv wants to stalk kids in public Toilets why do you think the fact that the bathrooms are segregated would stop him being perv?

Who mentioned six-year-olds ?

I replied to the assertion "All bathrooms should be unisex" - I assumed that the American euphemism "bathrooms" could be translated as "toilets" - I also assumed that "All" meant "All" which of course would include public bathrooms/toilets ..... :pipe:

[Niamh.]

Go check out the links I added to that post Niamh.

I will, cheers

Who mentioned six-year-olds ?

I replied to the assertion "All bathrooms should be unisex" - I assumed that the American euphemism "bathrooms" could be translated as "toilets" - I also assumed that "All" meant "All" which of course would include public bathrooms/toilets ..... :pipe:

Well this whole thread is about a six year old

[Omah]

wait... why would there be a dirty old man in a unisex bathroom any more than there would be a dirty old man in segregated bathrooms? Who is this dirty old man and where did he come from?

Well, believe it or not, some dirty old men like little boys and some dirty old men like little girls and some like both ..... :yuk:

[Ammi]

But they segregate everything. Much like catholic schools which have all boys or all girls schools... They probably wouldn't even allow a transgendered person to go to their schools in the first place.

But I don't agree with segregation in public schools. If it's a public school, there should be full integration.

..not always though..there are many mixed gender schools, which are multi-cultural and that also has to be allowed for...in this particular case of the 6yr old..they did allow the girls toilet to be used for around 18 months, I think...I don't know why that changed but I do think this story isn't exactly how it's being portrayed..I've watched ingterviews etc with Coy and the parents and it what they're saying just doesn't seem to have any foundaition...and maybe that's how the school feel as well..?..I don't know Alex...

[Omah]

I will, cheers



Well this whole thread is about a six year old

Obviously you have not read the WHOLE thread ..... :nono:

[Ammi]

Go check out the links I added to that post Niamh.

..have you watched any of the interviews with the parents and Coy..?...they don't really seem to have any obvious reasons to assume Coy is transgender...

[Ammi]

..I do agree though that the 'pervert' thing could and would happen in any toilet, if it was going to happen...that wouldn't make a difference to the tiolets being for both genders...

[lily.]

..have you watched any of the interviews with the parents and Coy..?...they don't really seem to have any obvious reasons to assume Coy is transgender...

I haven't watched the interviews, but the blog post I linked in my post gives quite a good insight into what kind of parents they are.

[Ammi]

I haven't watched the interviews, but the blog post I linked in my post gives quite a good insight into what kind of parents they are.

..what was interesting about the actual interviews is that Coy would have had to relay so much of how things made her feel, for her parents to assume her to be transgender and yet she says nothing in any of the interviews..and I know she's only 6yrs old, but we're led to believe that she already is certain of her sexuality at that age..?..the 'attention' thing you mentioned is quite interesting though because I knew Coy had quite a few siblings and mostly female, I think..but I didn't know any details about those siblings...

[lily.]

As a parent, I'm of the opinion that 6 is too young to know. I stand by that opinion.

Perhaps Coy is really a girl, and would have come to that conclusion anyway, but to put this much attention on the child is 100% the wrong thing to do. What if it's just a phase? How does Coy go back to being a boy? After this spectacle, it will be impossible to lead a normal life. It's a disgraceful way to treat your children. If there's genuine gender identity issues, they should be dealt with privately.

[Niamh.]

As a parent, I'm of the opinion that 6 is too young to know. I stand by that opinion.

Perhaps Coy is really a girl, and would have come to that conclusion anyway, but to put this much attention on the child is 100% the wrong thing to do. What if it's just a phase? How does Coy go back to being a boy? After this spectacle, it will be impossible to lead a normal life. It's a disgraceful way to treat your children. If there's genuine gender identity issues, they should be dealt with privately.

Absolutely agree with this.

[Vicky.]

As a parent, I'm of the opinion that 6 is too young to know. I stand by that opinion.

Perhaps Coy is really a girl, and would have come to that conclusion anyway, but to put this much attention on the child is 100% the wrong thing to do. What if it's just a phase? How does Coy go back to being a boy? After this spectacle, it will be impossible to lead a normal life. It's a disgraceful way to treat your children. If there's genuine gender identity issues, they should be dealt with privately.

Yup. I agree.

[Ammi]

As a parent, I'm of the opinion that 6 is too young to know. I stand by that opinion.

Perhaps Coy is really a girl, and would have come to that conclusion anyway, but to put this much attention on the child is 100% the wrong thing to do. What if it's just a phase? How does Coy go back to being a boy? After this spectacle, it will be impossible to lead a normal life. It's a disgraceful way to treat your children. If there's genuine gender identity issues, they should be dealt with privately.

..and it's also doing the very thing that they're apparently fighting against...it's putting pressure on the child to be a certain gender..if Coy is a female, then she will be one in time and they'll support her when that time comes..but they themselves are being prejudice if they don't also allow Coy equal opportunity to be male as well...

[Ammi]

..and I should say that for me, that's my main issue with the parents..that they don't see their prejudice in all of this...

[lily.]

The parents are clearly mental.

[GypsyGoth]

The parents are clearly mental.

:worship:

[swinearefine]

Society's obsession with segregation is absolutely sickening. Bathrooms shouldn't segregate based on gender any more than they should based off race. And people saying that six is too young to know, well based off this story apparently it isn't. She associates with girls more than boys, and it's no one else's business to tell her that she's too young to feel the way she does. Would you say the other kids are too young to decide to use the bathrooms the school says they are supposed to?

[Roy Mars III]

Society's obsession with segregation is absolutely sickening. Bathrooms shouldn't segregate based on gender any more than they should based off race. And people saying that six is too young to know, well based off this story apparently it isn't. She associates with girls more than boys, and it's no one else's business to tell her that she's too young to feel the way she does. Would you say the other kids are too young to decide to use the bathrooms the school says they are supposed to?

Bathrooms are segregated for practical reasons as well. If there were unisex bathrooms, they would probably get rid of the ever useful urinals, and I will die before I let that happen

[swinearefine]

Bathrooms are segregated for practical reasons as well. If there were unisex bathrooms, they would probably get rid of the ever useful urinals, and I will die before I let that happen

The world won't end if a female sees a penis.

[Nedusa]

The parents are clearly mental.

Agree 100%.........!!!!

[Roy Mars III]

The world won't end if a female sees a penis.

that's what I keep trying to tell them, but they always scream and run away

[swinearefine]

that's what I keep trying to tell them, but they always scream and run away

Life can be cruel.

[Ammi]

Society's obsession with segregation is absolutely sickening. Bathrooms shouldn't segregate based on gender any more than they should based off race. And people saying that six is too young to know, well based off this story apparently it isn't. She associates with girls more than boys, and it's no one else's business to tell her that she's too young to feel the way she does. Would you say the other kids are too young to decide to use the bathrooms the school says they are supposed to?

..yeah, but the school is in a difficult position because they don't have a mixed gender bathroom, so they have to make a decision based on the gender that Coy is and from my understanding, transgenders are straight forward male/female chromosome structures, so Coy is presently 'male'..and they have offered for the child to use the staff bathroom as a 'compromise' but the parents refuse...maybe in an ideal world then there would be something in place in schools for this but that also requires funding that most schools don't have..also, the psychologist has said that the parents should allow for Coy to be what they feel they are but that doesn't mean that the school will always be able to do that..from what I have read, they have made allowances in the past but maybe they can't continue to do so for other reasons..?...

[Niamh.]

that's what I keep trying to tell them, but they always scream and run away

:laugh2:

[Wildcat!]

This really makes me angry!! You guys can go PC all you want, but this is simply child abuse imo. Its the same as letting a child drink, smoke, or stay out all night, or letting pre teens buy sexy lingerie and thongs. I dont care what he may be in the future. Right now, he is a boy, and he should not be indulged into this. He will only be ridiculed, and outcasted his whole childhood. Let him at least hit puberty fgs, before he can make these choices!!

Furthermore, even if the parents dont have any backbone, thats fine, this is about using the public restrooms, and he is a boy period!

This is abolutely ridiculous, and no wonder our society and morals are so f'ed up! 6 years olds allowed to do whatever they damned please! smdh!!

[Wildcat!]

Society's obsession with segregation is absolutely sickening. Bathrooms shouldn't segregate based on gender any more than they should based off race. And people saying that six is too young to know, well based off this story apparently it isn't. She associates with girls more than boys, and it's no one else's business to tell her that she's too young to feel the way she does. Would you say the other kids are too young to decide to use the bathrooms the school says they are supposed to?

they can do whatever they damned please in their own home, so can you, but if my 6 year old girl, goes to a school were boys are allowed in the girls bathroom, they are gonna get sued. Guess what he is a boy, I dont care what he thinks.

[Wildcat!]

..what was interesting about the actual interviews is that Coy would have had to relay so much of how things made her feel, for her parents to assume her to be transgender and yet she says nothing in any of the interviews..and I know she's only 6yrs old, but we're led to believe that she already is certain of her sexuality at that age..?..the 'attention' thing you mentioned is quite interesting though because I knew Coy had quite a few siblings and mostly female, I think..but I didn't know any details about those siblings...

I think reffering to the kid as "HER", "SHE" etc..., in the first place is abusive, and out of order imo. Kids always try to see what they can get away with, but nowadays, there is too much indulgence.

[Nedusa]

I think until Puberty or Full Op Transgender re-alignment surgery,

Male Genitalia = Male (Boy)
Female Genitalia = Female (Girl)

That's it...!!! no amount of discussions or analysis can change what nature delivers, any sort of pyschological gender changing therapy is just plain CRUEL...........!!!!!!

[lily.]

This would be a different situation if the child were a young teenager. Then it would be feasible that the child might have an understanding of gender identity and be able to recognise that he/she doesn't fit in the gender they were born in.

When my son was 6 [and it's a good thing this site is sorta anonymous because he wouldn't be particularly happy with me sharing this now] he was pretty sure he was a rabbit some days. People would ask him what he wanted to be when he grew up, and he'd say 'a scientist'... which seemed like a sensible enough response, until he followed it up with 'so that I can make a secret potion which turns me into a rabbit'.

I didn't go into school and demand that a litter tray be provided for my son to use.

Same thing really.

[Wildcat!]

This would be a different situation if the child were a young teenager. Then it would be feasible that the child might have an understanding of gender identity and be able to recognise that he/she doesn't fit in the gender they were born in.

When my son was 6 [and it's a good thing this site is sorta anonymous because he wouldn't be particularly happy with me sharing this now] he was pretty sure he was a rabbit some days. People would ask him what he wanted to be when he grew up, and he'd say 'a scientist'... which seemed like a sensible enough response, until he followed it up with 'so that I can make a secret potion which turns me into a rabbit'.

I didn't go into school and demand that a litter tray be provided for my son to use.

Same thing really.

:laugh: Hilarious! But thats exactly the point. These enablers, are gonna be the end of us all.
Until puberty, nothing like that should be allowed, and that's for the child's sake!

[Niall]

It does seem a bit odd that kid like this is already feels incompatible with their gender at such a young age (I mean it is a complex thing), but I feel that we shouldn't just write it off altogether because of their age. I mean we're not in the child's head so what could we possibly know? Maybe they do, genuinely feel as if they're the wrong gender. We just don't know. Besides, she is only 6 anyway. I doubt most of the other children would make a fuss if she used the bathroom not meant for her gender if it was carefully explained to them. If it was really that much of an issue, a member of staff could always accompany them into the toilets..

I will say though, that the actions of the parents in exposing this case to such a public discussion seems a little bit dodgy. It does make me wonder about ulterior, attention seeking motives being at play.

[Omah]

This would be a different situation if the child were a young teenager. Then it would be feasible that the child might have an understanding of gender identity and be able to recognise that he/she doesn't fit in the gender they were born in.

When my son was 6 [and it's a good thing this site is sorta anonymous because he wouldn't be particularly happy with me sharing this now] he was pretty sure he was a rabbit some days. People would ask him what he wanted to be when he grew up, and he'd say 'a scientist'... which seemed like a sensible enough response, until he followed it up with 'so that I can make a secret potion which turns me into a rabbit'.

I didn't go into school and demand that a litter tray be provided for my son to use.

Same thing really.

So, did he use the sandpit ..... :conf:

[lily.]

He went on to decide that he was in fact a cat.. so he dug a hole and buried it.

[Shaun]

hahahahaa gender confusion funny subject

[Omah]

He went on to decide that he was in fact a cat.. so he dug a hole and buried it.

:joker:

[lily.]

hahahahaa gender confusion funny subject

I'm not sure my kid's issue could be described as 'gender confusion'... In fact, I'm not sure there's a word for a 6 year old who thinks he's an animal. :/

I assume your post was about people laughing at the boy/rabbit/cat thing?

[Mystic Mock]

Source (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/08/coy-mathis-case-district-_n_2838235.html)



I might not be popular for saying this, but I think 6 years old is far too young to identify as anything. At that age, they might as well identify as a cat or a dog. I think this whole thing boils down to attention-seeking parents. It's kinda sad.

I agree with you on that, but Schools can't go around singling out a student.

[Z]

I think the one main plus in all of this is that if Coy Mathis does indeed grow up wishing to be female, or realises he's gay, or anything that isn't heterosexual white male, at least his parents will love and support him. Most people don't know if their parents would support them through anything like that, yet he has media evidence of the fact his parents support him regardless of who he is or wants to be. Cool!

[lostalex]

I think the one main plus in all of this is that if Coy Mathis does indeed grow up wishing to be female, or realises he's gay, or anything that isn't heterosexual white male, at least his parents will love and support him. Most people don't know if their parents would support them through anything like that, yet he has media evidence of the fact his parents support him regardless of who he is or wants to be. Cool!

That's a really nice way of looking at it. I agree.