Legalising Gay Marriage thread [House of Lords passes; UK to be legal in days]

[Shaun]

France has become the 14th country to approve a law allowing gay marriage.

The bill, which also legalises adoption by same-sex couples, was passed by 321 votes to 225 in the French parliament.

The decision follows a divisive public debate with some of the biggest protests seen in France in recent years.

Hundreds of opponents of the measure rallied outside the National Assembly building in central Paris as the result was announced.
Frigide Barjot, campaigner against same-sex marriage in France in Paris, 23 April 2013 Several hundred opponents of the new law were out in force, led by Frigide Barjot (centre)

The leader of the most high-profile group opposing same-sex marriage vowed to continue the fight.

Frigide Barjot, a comedian who uses her stage name, told her supporters: "We are going to show them that this is not over. I solemnly ask the president to hold a referendum on the subject."

Inside the National Assembly chamber, two opponents tried to unfurl a banner before being ejected.

Thousands of police armed with water cannon were deployed near parliament to deal with any repeat of the violence seen on the fringes of previous demonstrations.

Although rallies opposing the change have been overwhelmingly peaceful, there have been some clashes, blamed on far-right elements.
Flagship reform

Opinion polls suggest a small majority of French people favour gay marriage, but surveys indicate fewer support adoption by same-sex couples.

Socialist President Francois Hollande made the law his flagship social reform.

He is expected to add his signature to the bill once it has cleared any challenge in the constitutional council.

Opponents of the measure, including the opposition UMP party, will try to convince the council that marriage is a constitutional issue.

However, analysts say that the council is unlikely to block the new law.
'Breeze of joy'

The BBC's Christian Fraser says that the bill has provoked strong emotions

The first weddings could take place in June, according to Justice Minister Christiane Taubira.

"We believe that the first weddings will be beautiful and that they'll bring a breeze of joy, and that those who are opposed to them today will surely be confounded when they are overcome with the happiness of the newlyweds and the families," she told the National Assembly.

Some argue this is the most important social reform in France since the death penalty was banned in 1981, says the BBC's Christian Fraser in Paris.

France is now the 14th country to legalise gay marriage after New Zealand last week.

It is also the ninth country in Europe to allow same-sex marriage after legalisation in the traditionally liberal Netherlands and Scandinavia, but also in strongly Catholic Portugal and Spain. Legislation is also moving through the UK Parliament.

But the measure has aroused stronger than expected opposition in France - a country where the Catholic Church was thought to have lost much of its influence over the public.

In January, a protest in Paris against the bill attracted some 340,000 people according to police - one of the biggest public demonstrations in France in decades. Organisers put the figure at 800,000.

Since then both sides have held regular street protests.

The opponents, backed by the Catholic Church and conservative opposition, say France already has civil partnerships for homosexual couples, and extending rights to marriage undermines an essential building block of society.

Quite surprised by this considering the supposed 100,000+ march against it in Paris, but :amazed: so many already this year...

[Niall]

Fantastic! So many countries are legalising it now. It's a wonderful thing. :lovedup:

[GypsyGoth]

:worship:

http://i.imgur.com/EgVt3iX.jpg

[Jack_]

Great news :D we're going to look like the terrible neighbours now if the Lords stop the bill progressing

[Jack_]

:worship:

http://i.imgur.com/EgVt3iX.jpg

That picture makes me so happy <3

Their shocked and disgusted faces when they're soon to become a minority in the most sweetest form of irony ever :love:

[Jake.]

Great stuff :pipe:

[Shaun]

I can't see the Lords stopping it given the clear majority from the Commons vote... would be uproar.

[GypsyGoth]

That picture makes me so happy <3

Their shocked and disgusted faces when they're soon to become a minority in the most sweetest form of irony ever :love:

I agree, for a while the anit-gay movement in france was getting quite worrying.

[BBfanUSA]

Make that 14 countries that allow gay marriage ahead of all of the US states do. (I live in a state that allows it)

[Apple202]

they're falling like dominos now :worship:

[lostalex]

Congratulations to France and all of the hardworking politicians and activists that made this day possible!

[Livia]

I can't see the Lords stopping it given the clear majority from the Commons vote... would be uproar.

I was chatting with someone from the Lords a few weeks ago and discussing the fact that the old twin-set-and-pearls, huntin'-shootin'-fishin' core Tory voters had been alienated beyond redemption by the gay marriage smokescreen - hence the sudden uprise in support for UKIP. His considered opinion was that there was no way in the world it would get through the Lords, and considering the age and background of most of them, and the fact that a huge number of them are lawyers and judges, I think he may be right. And if it does get through, it will be unrecognisable from the original draft.

[Shaun]

*grumbles usual complaints about unelected ancient arseholes* :p

[Jack_]

25 Bishops in the House of Lords. Disgusting really

[arista]

25 Bishops in the House of Lords. Disgusting really


No Typical
Jack

[Jesus.]

It's even really positive that the protests have been happening so publicly in France. Public debate is the absolute minimum we can hope and expect. In the past this has been an unnecessary part of the process, but opinion has shifted so much, that it can't be swept under the carpet anymore.

[Apple202]

Rhode Island has now legalised gay marriage (like ten minutes ago i think)

That's 1/5th of America now!

[Apple202]

sourceee http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/rhode-island-gay-marriage_n_3149877.html

[Shaun]

Yeah the Senate's voted for it (and the House did already) so I guess that's wrapped up :spin2:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/rhode-island-senate-passes-marriage-equality

[lostalex]

Good on ya Rhode Island! The smallest state taking a stand!

[Shaun]

Delaware have just become the 11th state to pass it, with a vote of 12-9 in their senate. :love:

[Niall]

It's kind of sad that it has to be a laborious state-by-state thing in America really. I suppose if they tried to implement it on a federal level though there would be an insane amount of backlash though.

[Shaun]

i think utah would probably secede

[Niall]

i think utah would probably secede

:laugh: Or overthrow the government.

[Apple202]

go delaware

[lostalex]

Looks like Minnesota might make it 12, they are voting on it today.

[lostalex]

It's basically certain now, the Minnesota House of Representatives just voted FOR gay marriage, and the Senate is sure to follow next Monday. Minnesota will be the 12th state to legalize gay marriage!

[Shaun]

awesome :D

[Smithy]

Brazil just legalised it too

[Shaun]

it's not quite official in Brazil yet cos senate has to declare it, but it's been made illegal to discriminate against gay marriage which is basically the same thing :laugh:

aaaand this morning, Minnesota made it official <3

[lostalex]

:dance:

[Apple202]

uk we are waiting

[Nedusa]

I don't see much difference between the two in the UK ( see excerpt from article below)

A civil partnership is, in effect, a legal marriage between two people of the same sex. Although there are differences between a marriage and a civil partnership, a couple who form a civil partnership have the same legal rights as a married couple.

This is because it would clearly be prejudicial and discriminatory if individuals of different sexes could marry and have more legal rights and protection than two people of the same sex who entered a civil partnership.

However, while a gay couple may form a civil partnership, they are not legally allowed to be married. And, vice versa, straight couples may be married but are not legally allowed to form a civil partnership.

Legal advantages of marriage

The key legal advantages and protection of marriage are widespread. They include significant advantages in relation to inheritance tax such as the provision for a transferable nil-rate band.

What this means is that when you die there is a maximum amount than can be passed without paying inheritance tax. Married couples have the ability to transfer their remaining nil-rate band to the other party. In addition to this, any gifts between each other pass without having to pay inheritance tax.

Each partner is also obliged to pay maintenance to the other party after the couple have split; this affords protection to both parties should they fall on hard times after a marriage split.

Indeed, marriage is seen as such an important relationship that the UK Border Agency is forced to take it into consideration when examining immigration appeals.

All of these legal rights and benefits of marriage are now automatically conferred to a civil partnership.

What is a civil partnership?

The idea behind introducing civil partnerships was not only to recognise the bond between same sex couples but also to ensure that the same legal rights were granted to them as married couples. There is, therefore, very little difference between the legal rights given to same-sex couples and that of non same-sex couples that enter into a civil partnership or marriage.

Civil partnerships have, unsurprisingly, risen in the UK since their introduction as they provide a stable environment and offer certain rights and protection that would not be there if the partnership was not entered into. It does involve significant responsibility, just as marriage does, particularly in terms of financial provisions for the other partner and any possible children; whilst there are similar provisions in place regarding divorce should the partnership need to be brought to an end.

So, what’s the difference?

There is, essentially, very little difference legally between a marriage and a civil partnership except that the former is intended only for heterosexual couples and the latter for homosexual couples.

The difference exists principally due to protests from religious groups about recognising same-sex couples and heterosexual couples in the same way. In fact, religious institutions are not legally permitted to perform civil partnerships.

So really it's only the main religious institutions that object to this ... But they always will so what , never gonna get them to change their doctrine. So it all comes down to a word ?? Marriage or partnership ??

I say we use Marriage for everyone and change the law accordingly ...!!!

[lostalex]

Exactly Nedusa, there is no difference in the practical sense, the only difference is the bigots wanting to segregate gays.


http://veraspeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Segregated-Drinking-Fountain.jpg

http://www.whensallymetsally.co.uk/files/1713/4018/7914/Anti-gay-marriage-poster.jpg

[Nedusa]

In amongst all the progress that is being made in promoting equal rights and freedoms to live without persecution I found one Country that is actively clamping down on gay rights and freedoms for same sex couples. see below

MOSCOW (AP) — The lower house of Russia's parliament has overwhelmingly passed a bill that stigmatizes the gay community and bans the distribution of information about homosexuality to children.

The State Duma voted 434-0 with one abstention on Tuesday to approve the Kremlin-backed legislation, which imposes hefty fines for holding gay pride rallies or providing information about the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community to minors.

One step forward and two steps back......!!!!

[Nedusa]

Although regulating what material should be available to children is in itself not a bad thing , what worries me with this action in Moscow is that even for those among the public who dislike gays so strongly it vibrates. I'd say consider this, It always starts with the groups a Government figures society will least rise to defend. Organized suppression. That's always where it creeps out from under that slimy rock to start to show itself. Then, once those groups are suppressed and precedent is established....one by one..slightly less objectionable groups become undesirable. It's not a slippery slope, IMHO. It's a vertical drop akin to the Grand Canyon....!!!

[Z]

Russia is horrendously homophobic.

[lostalex]

Children do need to be exposed to homosexuality from an early age. part of the problem is that all children ever hear about homosexuality is the stereotypes, so it's no wonder the bigotry persists.

When i ws young, i didn't know i was gay, because all i'd ever heard about gay people were horrible things., gay people are perverts, pedophiles, rapists, losers. so of course i thought... well if that's what gay people are, i'm not that, so i must not be gay.

I grew up in the 80's and 90's before the internet, before there were any positive representations of gays on TV.

I can speak from personal experience that it is VERY important for children to be exposed to homosexuality and homosexual relationships from as early an age as possible. It is absolutely VITAL to equality that children are taught about homosexuality from as young as possible.

It's very important that children are taught about love in all of its forms from the very beginning.

[Z]

I agree Alex. I think for a lot of people of a certain age on here, Paul O'Grady dressed up in drag as Lily Savage was probably their first encounter with homosexuality/queer culture in the media, and because it was such a camp, comedy act, I suppose that forms a certain image in people's heads about what gay men are. It's a truism that gay men can get away with a hell of a lot more misogyny than straight men can. If a gay guy says a woman's outfit is ugly or she ought to wear more make up, there's a much higher chance it'll elicit laughter as a response than if a straight man said it. Gay men are often treated as a novelty friend, if they're not victims of homophobia, and I think it's important that gay men are represented in a serious way in the media too. Portraying gay men in a stereotypical way is as damaging as it is helpful - the fact they're being represented is important, but showing gay men to be over the top caricatures isn't helping anyone.

[Shaun]

The US Supreme Court has struck down a law that defines marriage as between a man and a woman only, in a landmark ruling.

The court's 5-4 vote said the Defense of Marriage Act, known as Doma, denied equal protection to same-sex couples.

The court also declined to rule on a California ban on same-sex marriage known as Proposition 8. The decision paves the way for gay unions there.

Opinion polls show that most Americans support gay marriage.

Wednesday's decisions do not affect the bans on same-sex marriage enshrined in the constitutions of more than 30 US states.

Twelve US states and the District of Columbia currently recognise gay marriage.

The Doma decision means that legally married gay men and women are entitled to claim the same federal benefits available to opposite-sex married couples.

On Wednesday morning, crowds gathered outside the Supreme Court hours before the rulings were due, in the hope of getting a seat inside the courtroom.

The legal challenge to Doma was brought by New York resident Edith Windsor, 83.

She was handed a tax bill of $363,000 (£236,000) when she inherited the estate of her spouse Thea Speyer - a levy she would not have had to pay if she had been married to a man.

"Doma writes inequality into the entire United States Code," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in Wednesday's ruling.

"Under Doma, same-sex married couples have their lives burdened, by reason of government decree, in visible and public ways," the decision added.

"Doma's principal effect is to identify a subset of state-sanctioned marriages and make them unequal."

Lower courts also ruled in Ms Windsor's favour, saying that Doma did not treat all married couples equally.

In the wake of the ruling on Doma, US President Barack Obama, who is on a state visit to Senegal, tweeted: "Today's DOMA ruling is a historic step forward for #MarriageEquality #LoveIsLove"

The challenge to Doma did not address the question of whether same-sex marriage is constitutional.

Proposition 8 is a ban on gay marriage passed by California voters in November 2008, just months after the state's supreme court decided gay marriage was legal.

Two same-sex couples then launched a legal challenge against Proposition 8. But as the state of California refused to defend it, the group that sponsored the measure stepped up to do so.

On Wednesday, the US Supreme Court said a private party did not have the right, or "standing", to defend the constitutionality of a law.

"We have no authority to decide this case on the merits," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in the opinion, which was also decided by a margin of 5-4, though not along ideological lines.

The court also said the party defending the ban could not demonstrate that they would suffer injury if the law were to be struck down.

The four dissenting justices said they believed the court should have addressed the constitutional question of same-sex marriage before them in the Proposition 8 case.

Further litigation could lie ahead for the California ban, analysts say.

About 18,000 same-sex couples were married in California in the less than five months that same-sex marriages were permitted there.

Critics of the measure said Proposition 8 was unconstitutional because it took away previously granted rights from gay and lesbian couples.

Doma was signed into law in 1996 by former President Bill Clinton after it was approved in Congress with bipartisan support.

But it was subsequently struck down by several lower courts.

In 2011, President Barack Obama said that while he would continue to enforce Doma, he ordered his administration not to defend it in court. So Republicans from the House of Representatives argued in favour of the measure.

Last year, President Obama became the first sitting president to publicly endorse same-sex marriage.

Excellent.

[Ryan57]

Fantastic news. Homophobia in 2013, SMH. Sums up this planet really. :idc:

[Shaun]

Same-sex marriage in England and Wales is a step closer to becoming law after the House of Lords approved the change.

Peers backed a government bill paving the way for gay couples to marry. It is set to become law by the end of the week, with the first weddings in 2014.

Labour's Lord Alli said its passage meant "my life and many others will be better today than it was yesterday".

But Tory peer Lord Framlingham said the "ill-thought through" change had been "bulldozed" through Parliament.

Peers approved the principle of same-sex marriage last month, despite efforts by opponents to "wreck" the legislation.

MPs had earlier done the same, in the face of opposition from many Conservatives, the Church of England and other faith groups.

Supporters of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill wore pink carnations during Monday's proceedings in the Lords, during which a series of minor amendments - including one relating to pension benefits for same-sex couples - were proposed.

Government minister Lady Stowell said the bill "puts right something which is wrong" and had been improved by detailed scrutiny in the Upper House. "I can't claim to be a gay rights campaigner, but I am a firm believer in justice and fairness," she said.

But the Gay Marriage No Thanks group claimed it had been prevented from mounting an advertising campaign around Parliament after its truck was vandalised and its driver threatened.

After clearing the Lords, the bill will return to the Commons for a short debate on government amendments before the Commons begins its summer recess on Thursday. The bill must then receive Royal Assent before it becomes law.

:worship:

[Z]

This is pretty much law now then; HoL is pretty much a formality and bills can be forced through it anyway and it's the same with the Royal Assent procedure, that's just for show. As soon as it made it through Commons it was going to happen; just need to see what happens regarding amendments and if it's left as it is it should become law immediately. Good news!

[_Seth]

Feels amazing to see this happening. <3

[Z]

Question: if a gay couple has entered into a civil union, can they get married? Or to phrase it better, if a gay couple has entered into a civil union, can they apply to get that turned into a marriage, do they have to go through a separate marriage ceremony or do they have to get the civil union dissolved before they can get married?

[Shaun]

I'd imagine they have to marry again (which must be annoying if they've forked out for a lavish civil partnership ceremony).

Pretty much done now:

The bill allowing same-sex couples to marry in England and Wales has passed its final hurdle in Parliament.

The government legislation is now due to get royal assent, after which it is likely to become law later this week.

The Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat leaderships all backed the bill, after the Lords approved the changes on Monday.

It is expected that the first gay and lesbian wedding ceremonies will take place by summer next year.

Under the terms of the the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, religious organisations will have to "opt in" to offering weddings, with the Church of England and Church in Wales being banned in law from doing so.

[Shaun]

I'd imagine they have to marry again (which must be annoying if they've forked out for a lavish civil partnership ceremony).

Pretty much done now:

The bill allowing same-sex couples to marry in England and Wales has passed its final hurdle in Parliament.

The government legislation is now due to get royal assent, after which it is likely to become law later this week.

The Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat leaderships all backed the bill, after the Lords approved the changes on Monday.

It is expected that the first gay and lesbian wedding ceremonies will take place by summer next year.

Under the terms of the the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, religious organisations will have to "opt in" to offering weddings, with the Church of England and Church in Wales being banned in law from doing so.

[Niall]

Thank God that it's pretty much legal here now. :love:

[Benjamin]

I must be the only gay guy that doesn't care at all if we can get legally married.

[bbfan1991]

Good luck to those who are fighting for equal marriage!

[Z]

I must be the only gay guy that doesn't care at all if we can get legally married.

I don't really see why anyone would want official validation from an institution that hates them because of its interpretation of its own official doctrine but each to their own.

[Vicky.]

I must be the only gay guy that doesn't care at all if we can get legally married.
Nah, quite a few gay couples I know really dont give a **** about getting married and already viewed civil partnerships as marriage anyway.

[_Seth]

I personally don't care for getting married, it's just that it's great to have the right to be able to. Civil partnership was "equal, but separated." Kinda like how black people had different waiting rooms; chairs were equally comfortable, but they were kept separate.

[Shaun]

I don't care for tap dancing. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be legal.

[Black Dagger]

:worship:

[Vicky.]

I'd imagine they have to marry again (which must be annoying if they've forked out for a lavish civil partnership ceremony).

Pretty much done now:

Hopefully they introduce a way to..I dont know..maybe just switch over the CP to a marriage? When my mum and dad got remarried it seemed like all they had to do was sign something..surely theres a way to do this rather than expect people in CPs to fork out again when they should have been able to get married in the first place

[EddieF]

they're falling like dominos now :worship:

Love your avatar
http://25.media.tumblr.com/19d88583a1191b5d0b594e62faffb06c/tumblr_mpz8nb6For1qzduazo1_500.gif

OT: ew

[bbfan1991]

Well done to those who have been fighting for Equal Marriage and I am glad that there has been a happy outcome for them:).

[Braden]

Very refreshing news in the past week in regards to same-sex marriage in the UK. It makes me so pleased to be living in the country.

Not that long ago I opposed gay marriage, despite being gay myself. I was cynical and tried to act like I didn't care until a few of my friends made me realise how stupid I was. It was definitely due to a lack of pride of being who I truly was.

Now I couldn't think of anything more important than than having equal rights within marriage. A unity of love is so encouraging and such a brilliant life event. It's such a good feeling knowing that I could married one day.