View Full Version : Do you believe what fortune tellers say?
bbfan1991
01-05-2013, 12:33 PM
I don't and when I read the horoscopes the same goes for them.
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 12:35 PM
No.
Vanessa
01-05-2013, 12:35 PM
Sometimes horoscopes are scarily accurate, but i'm not sure if it's coincidence or not. :shocked:
..I did go to a clairvoyant once, I was very young at the time and I wasn't taking it seriously when I went, but I did leave there believing it a bit because she said some things, that I felt couldn't have been 'guesswork' but I never felt inclined to go again...I wouldn't believe in one now, but as I say, I was very young and she was quite convincing....
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 12:44 PM
No. Its mumbo jumbo for weak and easily led people. They say things that sound familiar cuz they are either so vague that your mind works overtime to relate it to something in your life or they pick up on something you say and milk it till they hit a nerve with the 'victim'. They are snake oil salesmen, bunko artists and should be illegal IMO if they cannot prove their powers.
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 12:52 PM
Shall I put you down as a maybe, Girth?
bbfan1991
01-05-2013, 12:53 PM
I put it down to pure luck and guesswork when they predict something right:D:joker:.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 12:56 PM
Shall I put you down as a maybe, Girth?I was planning on sitting on the fence but my true colours came out. LOL
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 01:00 PM
I put it down to pure luck and guesswork when they predict something right:D:joker:.
It's actually a little more complicated than that.
The person having the reading does the work. To start with, they are obviously going to one of these people for a reason, and they will generally want that reason to be revealed.
When the cold reading is being done, the reader will throw out blanket statements and narrow them down.
Does Steve mean anything to you?
No
Well there is someone with the letter s. Susan, Sarah?
No
What about a street name or a workplace?
No.
Well there is definitely something to do with a letter s. Keep that in mind as it may mean something to you when you leave.
That's not classed as a miss, so they get a pass on that, then eventually they'll strike something that makes sense, and the person getting the reading will fill in all the blanks, but the reader will get the credit.
Kazanne
01-05-2013, 01:00 PM
No,dont believe in them or horoscopes.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 01:07 PM
It's actually a little more complicated than that.
The person having the reading does the work. To start with, they are obviously going to one of these people for a reason, and they will generally want that reason to be revealed.
When the cold reading is being done, the reader will throw out blanket statements and narrow them down.
Does Steve mean anything to you?
No
Well there is someone with the letter s. Susan, Sarah?
No
What about a street name or a workplace?
No.
Well there is definitely something to do with a letter s. Keep that in mind as it may mean something to you when you leave.
That's not classed as a miss, so they get a pass on that, then eventually they'll strike something that makes sense, and the person getting the reading will fill in all the blanks, but the reader will get the credit.Just as I thought. You seem to know a lot about this have you had personal experience?
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 01:13 PM
Just as I thought. You seem to know a lot about this have you had personal experience?
No personal experience, I just have a bit of a fascination with mumbo jumbo (as you say) and anything that is so-called supernatural. Anyone who pays any attention to it will pick these tricks up.
I'm pretty sure I could cold read anyone with the minimum amount of preparation.
Marcus.
01-05-2013, 01:15 PM
nah i do not
It's actually a little more complicated than that.
The person having the reading does the work. To start with, they are obviously going to one of these people for a reason, and they will generally want that reason to be revealed.
When the cold reading is being done, the reader will throw out blanket statements and narrow them down.
Does Steve mean anything to you?
No
Well there is someone with the letter s. Susan, Sarah?
No
What about a street name or a workplace?
No.
Well there is definitely something to do with a letter s. Keep that in mind as it may mean something to you when you leave.
That's not classed as a miss, so they get a pass on that, then eventually they'll strike something that makes sense, and the person getting the reading will fill in all the blanks, but the reader will get the credit.
..ok..(..and I'm not saying I believe in it..)..but what if that isn't the method they use and they impart information to you without asking you anything..?...
..I mean, I know there will be an explanation for that..but how do they do it ..?...
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 01:23 PM
..ok..(..and I'm not saying I believe in it..)..but what if that isn't the method they use and they impart information to you without asking you anything..?...
..I mean, I know there will be an explanation for that..but how do they do it ..?...
It's difficult to give you the solution without the example.
It relies on the human memory being pretty bad at recalling events after you leave the situation. I would wager that however you remember the situation (if it's you that you're talking about), then that's not really how the events played out.
I know that's probably difficult for you to believe because you were there, but tests have shown this happens all the time. People make recordings, then after listening to them back have a completely different perspective of what was happening.
You went to a clairvoyant for a reason. That's the key element.
joeysteele
01-05-2013, 01:24 PM
Not really. Not after a few years ago I was with my Mum and my Grandmother,who was at the door of a fairground 'fortune teller' who beckoned my Grandmother to go in saying you have a long life ahead of you, you are going to live until you are in your 70s.
To which my Grandmother replied,well that's interesting to hear considering I am already 81.
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 01:25 PM
Not really. Not after a few years ago I was with my Mum and my Grandmother,who was at the door of a fairground 'fortune teller' who beckoned my Grandmother to go in saying you have a long life ahead of you, you are going to live until you are in your 70s.
To which my Grandmother replied,well that's interesting to hear considering I am already 81.
To be fair, she was definitely correct about that prediction.
HIT.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 01:26 PM
No personal experience, I just have a bit of a fascination with mumbo jumbo (as you say) and anything that is so-called supernatural. Anyone who pays any attention to it will pick these tricks up.
I'm pretty sure I could cold read anyone with the minimum amount of preparation.It is fascinating, I agree.
I come from quite a religious family so I have family members who believe in this garbage and a couple of them have been duped by fortune tellers. When their predictions don't come true some people cannot handle the consequences so that's why I say they should be illegal if they cannot prove they have the 'gift'.
Vanessa
01-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Not really. Not after a few years ago I was with my Mum and my Grandmother,who was at the door of a fairground 'fortune teller' who beckoned my Grandmother to go in saying you have a long life ahead of you, you are going to live until you are in your 70s.
To which my Grandmother replied,well that's interesting to hear considering I am already 81.
:joker:
It's difficult to give you the solution without the example.
It relies on the human memory being pretty bad at recalling events after you leave the situation. I would wager that however you remember the situation (if it's you that you're talking about), then that's not really how the events played out.
I know that's probably difficult for you to believe because you were there, but tests have shown this happens all the time. People make recordings, then after listening to them back have a completely different perspective of what was happening.
You went to a clairvoyant for a reason. That's the key element.
...yeah, the key element was that a few people I knew were going and someone dropped out at the last minute, so I said..yeah, I'll go then...I didn't have anything else on at the time lol....
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 01:29 PM
It is fascinating, I agree.
I come from quite a religious family so I have family members who believe in this garbage and a couple of them have been duped by fortune tellers. When their predictions don't come true some people cannot handle the consequences so that's why I say they should be illegal if they cannot prove they have the 'gift'.
Just tell them that fortune telling is a form of witchcraft, and goes against god. I presume they will be some branch of Christianity, so that should work.
Better keeping them to one fairy tale, rather than two.
Not really. Not after a few years ago I was with my Mum and my Grandmother,who was at the door of a fairground 'fortune teller' who beckoned my Grandmother to go in saying you have a long life ahead of you, you are going to live until you are in your 70s.
To which my Grandmother replied,well that's interesting to hear considering I am already 81.
:joker::joker::joker:
joeysteele
01-05-2013, 01:31 PM
To be fair, she was definitely correct about that prediction.
HIT.
:joker: I guess so.
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 01:32 PM
...yeah, the key element was that a few people I knew were going and someone dropped out at the last minute, so I said..yeah, I'll go then...I didn't have anything else on at the time lol....
Like I say, without more information it's difficult to try and give you an explanation without the example.
But without a recording, it could be impossible to explain it.
Like I say, without more information it's difficult to try and give you an explanation without the example.
But without a recording, it could be impossible to explain it.
..well, I guess that occasionally there are things thay maybe can't be explained then...
I remember someone telling me once, that when people are queueing to go in to readings in halls or chatting whilst waiting, that scouts are sent amongst them to pick up on snippets of convos that may help in readings. I don't know how true that is or not, but it does sound feasible to me.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 01:41 PM
I remember someone telling me once, that when people are queueing to go in to readings in halls or chatting whilst waiting, that scouts are sent amongst them to pick up on snippets of convos that may help in readings. I don't know how true that is or not, but it does sound feasible to me.That sounds very feasible to me.
These con artists pick up on something, anything to plant seeds in your mind that can be exploited.
I remember someone telling me once, that when people are queueing to go in to readings in halls or chatting whilst waiting, that scouts are sent amongst them to pick up on snippets of convos that may help in readings. I don't know how true that is or not, but it does sound feasible to me.
..there was one on youtube when they got some information from people through questionnaires and then searched information on the internet on them..(behind the scenes..)..I'll see if I can find it for you Suze, but it's quite a while ago since I found it, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to....
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 01:45 PM
..well, I guess that occasionally there are things thay maybe can't be explained then...
XLQTYgAPN4c
Roy Mars III
01-05-2013, 01:45 PM
Yes, I do.
I have been to a fortune teller a few times and they have always been right about everything. I am sure that many are fake but the one I go to definitely has the power.
Ramsay
01-05-2013, 01:46 PM
Its all cold reading
Yes, I do.
I have been to a fortune teller a few times and they have always been right about everything. I am sure that many are fake but the one I go to definitely has the power.
..do they ask you stuff first Roy, or just tell you things..?...
Roy Mars III
01-05-2013, 01:51 PM
..do they ask you stuff first Roy, or just tell you things..?...
She is a hand reader.
She is a hand reader.
..the one I went to had some tarot cards but she didn't read them..?..she just asked me to hold them for a few seconds then she started talking to me and was very specific about things..she never asked me anything through the whole process...even to confirm anything she said....it actually was a bit spooky and made me never want to go again....
My mum went to a fortune teller last summer and everything she said would happen, did happen, so I do believe them, but some are probably more reliable than others.
Livia
01-05-2013, 02:47 PM
I don't believe in them. I think they're con artists who rely on people's willingness to grasp at straws and see coincidence as some kind of ESP.
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 02:51 PM
No. Its mumbo jumbo for weak and easily led people. They say things that sound familiar cuz they are either so vague that your mind works overtime to relate it to something in your life or they pick up on something you say and milk it till they hit a nerve with the 'victim'. They are snake oil salesmen, bunko artists and should be illegal IMO if they cannot prove their powers.
I would normally agree but this one time I went to one who said something about a friend of mine that she couldn't possibly have just guessed and I'd barely opened my mouth (not to mention even if I had it was something that I wasn't aware of anyway), she even gave me her name, nothing at all vague about it. But in general I think most are how you said
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 02:56 PM
I would normally agree but this one time I went to one who said something about a friend of mine that she couldn't possibly have just guessed and I'd barely opened my mouth (not to mention even if I had it was something that I wasn't aware of anyway), she even gave me her name, nothing at all vague about it. But in general I think most are how you saidSounds spooky. So did the thing turn out to be 100% true?
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 03:07 PM
Sounds spooky. So did the thing turn out to be 100% true?
Yeah, well kind of, she warned me to watch out for this friend because she was going to try and kill herself, a little while after that this friend (who she actually named) told me she was suffering from depression and about a year later she killed herself. I went back to her again after it happened and she said to me, she's ok she's with horses, which was another strange and specific thing to say as this friends life was horses, she worked with them and she actually killed herself in a stable belonging to her horse so it wasn't at all vague.
My sister went to a spiritual medium who also does tarot quite recently.. I'm quite the sceptic, but this woman was amazing. So I don't really know
Vanessa
01-05-2013, 03:18 PM
My last horoscope said to watch out, because someone close to me isn't who they appear to be. How true! :eek:
I would normally agree but this one time I went to one who said something about a friend of mine that she couldn't possibly have just guessed and I'd barely opened my mouth (not to mention even if I had it was something that I wasn't aware of anyway), she even gave me her name, nothing at all vague about it. But in general I think most are how you said
..yeah, that's how I feel..the things she said were too specific and she didn't ask me anything or try to get clues from me...and one of the things she told me involved a death as well, which happened in the month she said it would..there were a few other things and they happened as well....
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 03:21 PM
..yeah, that's how I feel..the things she said were too specific and she didn't ask me anything or try to get clues from me...and one of the things she told me involved a death as well, which happened in the month she said it would..there were a few other things and they happened as well....
I think with this woman though some stuff like what she told me just came to her but she wasn't great at the - you're going to get married at this age (I was only 16 at the time) and you're going to have this many kids etc type stuff
Yeah, the one my sis went to was not vague in the slightest. She said the room was full of spirits and csme up with names, places dates, causes of deaths etc.
I think with this woman though some stuff like what she told me just came to her but she wasn't great at the - you're going to get married at this age (I was only 16 at the time) and you're going to have this many kids etc type stuff
..mine didn't say any of that stuff to me, she just told me a few really specific things and nothing like that I'd be rich and famous and marry Liam Neeson etc... and I actually left early because I was so freaked out by it all..
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 03:27 PM
Yeah, the one my sis went to was not vague in the slightest. She said the room was full of spirits and csme up with names, places dates, causes of deaths etc.
That kind of stuff completely throws me off then because I'm not at all a believer in God or spiritual/religious
Yeah, the one my sis went to was not vague in the slightest. She said the room was full of spirits and csme up with names, places dates, causes of deaths etc.
..I guess you don't know how many she got right Lee..?..
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 03:36 PM
..mine didn't say any of that stuff to me, she just told me a few really specific things and nothing like that I'd be rich and famous and marry Liam Neeson etc... and I actually left early because I was so freaked out by it all..
Freaked out that she never said you'd marry Liam Neeson? :laugh:
Not sure, have never been to one and don't intend to, could be something to it I suppose but by the very nature of it there's bound to be a lot of conmen, deception, trickery etc.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 03:39 PM
In the cases of those who had accurate predictions - Did the 'psychic' not ask you anything at all? I ask cuz it would be very freaky for them to predict things about people they know absolutely nothing about. Did they know your name or anything like that?
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 03:42 PM
In the cases of those who had accurate predictions - Did the 'psychic' not ask you anything at all? I ask cuz it would be very freaky for them to predict things about people they know absolutely nothing about. Did they know your name or anything like that?
She didn't ask me anything at all and what she told me was something I didn't even know was true myself until a while after. She didn't know me and she didn't know my friend either
That kind of stuff completely throws me off then because I'm not at all a believer in God or spiritual/religious
Yeah, I'm the same Niamh.. but there's too much to these things to simply be fobbed off as con artists
..I guess you don't know how many she got right Lee..?..
She got everything right.. there's no guessing with this woman. She's quite grumpy too apparently.. if you don't take what she's saying, she just moves on without probing further.
She told my sis she had a paul who had died in a carcrash, my sis said she couldn't think who thst could be, and the woman snapped at her "well he's here so I can assure you you know him"
We had a family friend who died in a crash about 8 years ago.. my sis just hadn't thought about him in a while and didnt know him as well as my mum and I did.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 03:47 PM
She didn't ask me anything at all and what she told me was something I didn't even know was true myself until a while after. She didn't know me and she didn't know my friend eitherCould it have been something she picked up in your body language? I'm such a skeptic that I struggle to believe that people can come out with random true facts on a whim. Do you think there could be anything that could have given her some kind of clue to the fact she got right?
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 03:49 PM
Yeah, I'm the same Niamh.. but there's too much to these things to simply be fobbed off as con artists
She got everything right.. there's no guessing with this woman. She's quite grumpy too apparently.. if you don't take what she's saying, she just moves on without probing further.
She told my sis she had a paul who had died in a carcrash, my sis said she couldn't think who thst could be, and the woman snapped at her "well he's here so I can assure you you know him"
We had a family friend who died in a crash about 8 years ago.. my sis just hadn't thought about him in a while and didnt know him as well as my mum and I did.Vague.
Vague.
Its not that vague.. how many people know a paul who died in a carcrash. I cant write everything she said, but she was anything but vague
Freaked out that she never said you'd marry Liam Neeson? :laugh:
..yeah, I left at that point but I have to admit now that she was right though...he turned down all of my proposals and got an injunction out against me....
In the cases of those who had accurate predictions - Did the 'psychic' not ask you anything at all? I ask cuz it would be very freaky for them to predict things about people they know absolutely nothing about. Did they know your name or anything like that?
...no, she honestly didn't Girth..not one thing..I was with her for a few seconds when she asked me to hold the tarot cards then give them back to her..and she didn't read them, she just kept shuffling them...
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 03:53 PM
Could it have been something she picked up in your body language? I'm such a skeptic that I struggle to believe that people can come out with random true facts on a whim. Do you think there could be anything that could have given her some kind of clue to the fact she got right?
No not at all, I had no idea that my friend was even suffering from depression myself at that time, she'd moved away so i didn't get to see her as much as I used to so it would have been very easy to hide it from me. Also, she gave me her name, I don't think there's anyway she could have picked up on a specific name from my body language :laugh:
Apple202
01-05-2013, 03:54 PM
Vague.
that's not vague in the slightest :conf:
Yeah, I'm the same Niamh.. but there's too much to these things to simply be fobbed off as con artists
She got everything right.. there's no guessing with this woman. She's quite grumpy too apparently.. if you don't take what she's saying, she just moves on without probing further.
She told my sis she had a paul who had died in a carcrash, my sis said she couldn't think who thst could be, and the woman snapped at her "well he's here so I can assure you you know him"
We had a family friend who died in a crash about 8 years ago.. my sis just hadn't thought about him in a while and didnt know him as well as my mum and I did.
..yeah, that's quite spooky Lee..that's why I left and would never go again, I don't really want to know anything..I just went to make up the numbers and I thought it would be fun...
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 03:57 PM
Its not that vague.. how many people know a paul who died in a carcrash. I cant write everything she said, but she was anything but vague
Did she say car crash specifically? Alarm bell rang for me when you said your sister didnt know the person all that well. That sounded too similar to experiences my sister has had.
I know someone that does it and doesnt charge any money and they are very specific in what they say.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 04:00 PM
that's not vague in the slightest :conf:Most people know someone who's called Paul, most people know someone who was killed in car crash. It vague alright. I'm surprised she didnt start listing names that began with P - Peter, Phillip etc when the name paul was rejected.
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 04:01 PM
Did she say car crash specifically? Alarm bell rang for me when you said your sister didnt know the person all that well. That sounded too similar to experiences my sister has had.
I understand you skepticism, I'm mostly dubious about them myself, I went through a phase of going to fortune tellers, just for the laugh really and most of them were so vague it was stupid.
Did she say car crash specifically? Alarm bell rang for me when you said your sister didnt know the person all that well. That sounded too similar to experiences my sister has had.
Yes she specifically said Paul who died in a car crash. This was the vaguest example by the way... everthing else she said was spot on.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 04:03 PM
Yes she specifically said Paul who died in a car crash. This was the vaguest example by the way... everthing else she said was spot on.Were you there when it happened ?
Most people know someone who's called Paul, most people know someone who was killed in car crash. It vague alright. I'm surprised she didnt start listing names that began with P - Peter, Phillip etc when the name paul was rejected.
That's my point. She doesn't try the other name thing. She assures you that you know him and moves on.
This eoman doesn't charge either btw.
Were you there when it happened ?
No
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 04:05 PM
That's my point. She doesn't try the other name thing. She assures you that you know him and moves on.
This eoman doesn't charge either btw.OK she sounds different.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 04:06 PM
NoAha. So you heard this 2nd hand?
Aha. So you heard this 2nd hand?
Erm, yeah. From my sister, not a stranger! She has absolutely no reason to lie at all.
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 04:09 PM
No not at all, I had no idea that my friend was even suffering from depression myself at that time, she'd moved away so i didn't get to see her as much as I used to so it would have been very easy to hide it from me. Also, she gave me her name, I don't think there's anyway she could have picked up on a specific name from my body language :laugh:
1 in 4 people suffer with depression at some point in their lives. It's an educated guess.
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 04:09 PM
Erm, yeah. From my sister, not a stranger! She has absolutely no reason to lie at all.I'm not saying that. I'm saying it would be a more powerful story if you heard it first hand.
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 04:10 PM
1 in 4 people suffer with depression at some point in their lives. It's an educated guess.
Ok but she told me her exact name and that she was going to try and kill herself (she never actually said she suffered from depression btw) and also when i went back to her after she did kill herself she said the bit about the horses
1 in 4 people suffer with depression at some point in their lives. It's an educated guess.
..but they don't commit suicide though..?..
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 04:22 PM
Ok but she told me her exact name and that she was going to try and kill herself (she never actually said she suffered from depression btw) and also when i went back to her after she did kill herself she said the bit about the horses
That's something that can be left with you, and it could potentially come true up until the last day of your life.
Were you living i Ireland? Would it be such a stretch that a woman in your part of the world enjoyed horses?
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 04:25 PM
That's something that can be left with you, and it could potentially come true up until the last day of your life.
Were you living i Ireland? Would it be such a stretch that a woman in your part of the world enjoyed horses?
Strange is it may sound we all don't own horses and ride around the place on them :laugh: She was my only friend who'd even sat on a horse at all I'd say, I was from the city, horses weren't a common thing for me or my friends But this one friend, who's name she got right had moved from the city and owned a horse and worked with horses so yeah imo it was a bit of a stretch
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 04:26 PM
..but they don't commit suicide though..?..
It's left open. She isn't committing to anything by saying that. I'm sure there were probably at least 10 more predictions she made that Niamh has no memory of.
Roy Mars III
01-05-2013, 04:28 PM
People should watch that Bull**** episode that Penn and Teller did on fortune tellers
It's left open. She isn't committing to anything by saying that. I'm sure there were probably at least 10 more predictions she made that Niamh has no memory of.
..hmm. yeah but she didn't leavi it open by naming her though and Niamh would remember if she had given that name to her...mine was similar in that one of the things I was told was about a death and they were also named and also the month he died..?...there were other things as well but they're quite personal....
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 04:32 PM
Strange is it may sound we all don't own horses and ride around the place on them :laugh: She was my only friend who'd even sat on a horse at all I'd say, I was from the city, horses weren't a common thing for me or my friends But this one friend, who's name she got right had moved from the city and owned a horse and worked with horses so yeah imo it was a bit of a stretch
That's shattered my illusion of Oirish people!!
I can't put myself in your experience, so I can't explain it fully, but I can guarantee you that your memory isn't being honest with you about the whole experience. I have no doubts she gave you the name, the condition, and the awful ending, but I also have no question in my mind that she would have made loads of other predictions too.
Of course you remember that one hit, because it was so specific, but if you see the future you should guess everything right.
King Gizzard
01-05-2013, 04:39 PM
Load of crap
Always find it funny when people believe in these and horoscopes but then firmly don't believe in religion
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 04:40 PM
..hmm. yeah but she didn't leavi it open by naming her though and Niamh would remember if she had given that name to her...mine was similar in that one of the things I was told was about a death and they were also named and also the month he died..?...there were other things as well but they're quite personal....
You can't say how that conversation played out. Was it done in in a Ludo reveal kind of way?
Person x, depression, suicide.
Or was it something like:
You have a friend called Rusty Lee
(Niamh nods, or looks up to recognise the name)
well this is going to happen.
That is completely open, and until Niamhs last breath there is a chance that could be true.
Dates are really easy to get round to cold readers. Firstly you have an instant 1 in 12 chance of being correct to begin with. If you're wrong then they will often change it.
Well that's when they first became ill, someone close to them died in that month - they're with them now everything is great.
It's all linguistics.
Jesus, what about talking about people that have died, or the past in general as opposed to predicting the future. That can't be guesswork surely?
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 04:43 PM
Jesus, what about talking about people that have died, or the past in general as opposed to predicting the future. That can't be guesswork surely?
Give me an example.
Vicky.
01-05-2013, 04:46 PM
No. Then again the only one I have ever seen..I went in for a laugh, and I got it. She told me all about my gorgeous 3 children, a newborn, a 3 year old and 5/6 year old. She told me about my tall handsome partner who I will be with forever. And about my 'best friend'...
She had clearly been watching me walking round the fair..as I was with gav, his kids, and their mother. Somehow these became my kids and my best friend. :D
King Gizzard
01-05-2013, 04:47 PM
Plants in the audience
You can't say how that conversation played out. Was it done in in a Ludo reveal kind of way?
Person x, depression, suicide.
Or was it something like:
You have a friend called Rusty Lee
(Niamh nods, or looks up to recognise the name)
well this is going to happen.
That is completely open, and until Niamhs last breath there is a chance that could be true.
Dates are really easy to get round to cold readers. Firstly you have an instant 1 in 12 chance of being correct to begin with. If you're wrong then they will often change it.
Well that's when they first became ill, someone close to them died in that month - they're with them now everything is great.
It's all linguistics.
..hmmm, yeah it is all possible and I'm sure it's what often happens...but it wasn't like that for me, she spoke really quickly and was looking at her tarot cards in her hand the whole time..she didn't look up to make eye contact with me..in fact she did say at the beginning that she didn't need me to acknowledge anything..and I didn't...
I remember someone telling me once, that when people are queueing to go in to readings in halls or chatting whilst waiting, that scouts are sent amongst them to pick up on snippets of convos that may help in readings. I don't know how true that is or not, but it does sound feasible to me.
..this is the video I meant Suze...
F7pYHN9iC9I
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 05:11 PM
..this is the video I meant Suze...
F7pYHN9iC9IGood vid. :thumbs:
I love how everyone in that vid wants to believe. Thats how con men do so well.
Legend killer
01-05-2013, 05:13 PM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/180188/it-s-still-real-to-me-dammit-o.gif
Good vid. :thumbs:
I love how everyone in that vid wants to believe. Thats how con men do so well.
..yeah, I do believe that but I still believe something about the one that I saw lol..it was just too spooky....
..this is the video I meant Suze...
F7pYHN9iC9I
Thanks Ammi. I'll watch it on my other computer later, as I can't get sound on this one.
EDIT: Clicked it anyway and see I don't need sound as it has subtitles.
..yeah, it's all subtitled Suze..I think it's more about identity fraud and just showing how easy it is to get information from people....
Livia
01-05-2013, 05:38 PM
I've seen a couple of Derren Brown's shows on telly and my brother saw one of his shows live. He's amazing... how he pulls out such personal and specific stuff about people is truly freaky. But he makes it very clear all the way through that it's entertainment, that he has no psychic powers at all and that he's extremely sceptical of those who do claim those powers.
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 05:39 PM
Thanks Ammi. I'll watch it on my other computer later, as I can't get sound on this one.
EDIT: Clicked it anyway and see I don't need sound as it has subtitles.
Be quicker to get the other computer than learn to read!
AnnieK
01-05-2013, 05:44 PM
My grandad told me before he died if there was anyway to get through afterwards he would. I spent the first 6 months after he died expecting him sat on the end of my bed in the middle of the night. He never came. My mum can smell him from time to time though. I am very sceptical about mediums, the ones who put the shows on in halls particularly. My cousin goes regularly to see someone who doesn't charge and she has told her some pretty remarkable things that are true, things that happened when we were kids that she wouldn't have known but she says my nan comes through to her.
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 05:55 PM
Any believers should watch this whole programme, but at worst from 36mins till the end of the show.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown-the-specials/4od#2921957
Give me an example.
Well first of all, why not try and tell me what my dads name was and how he died
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 05:59 PM
Well first of all, why not try and tell me what my dads name was and how he died
Watch the video above from 36 mins till the end, and you'll see tricks like that.
It's not special ability Lee.
Watch the video above from 36 mins till the end, and you'll see tricks like that.
It's not special ability Lee.
I cant be bothered right now.. but the woman told my sister all about my dad.. things that obviously weren't guesses
Jesus.
01-05-2013, 06:12 PM
I cant be bothered right now.. but the woman told my sister all about my dad.. things that obviously weren't guesses
But you weren't there, so you're only taking this on second hand information. It's anecdotal evidence, and that's the weakest form of evidence there is, specifically because of the way our memories work.
When you can be bothered, you will see Derren Brown telling an American lady that her mom was known as the hat lady before she passed. How could he possibility know that? It can't be a guess, surely? That's so specific.
There are ways for people to do this, that just doesn't involve any powers. So the first thing I'd ask myself, is if this can be done without a gift, why does it need a gift at all?
But you weren't there, so you're only taking this on second hand information. It's anecdotal evidence, and that's the weakest form of evidence there is, specifically because of the way our memories work.
When you can be bothered, you will see Derren Brown telling an American lady that her mom was known as the hat lady before she passed. How could he possibility know that? It can't be a guess, surely? That's so specific.
There are ways for people to do this, that just doesn't involve any powers. So the first thing I'd ask myself, is if this can be done without a gift, why does it need a gift at all?
Does derren brown explain how he did it? Who's to say that he hasnt actually got some psychic powers?
My sister told me exactly what was said about my dad... it was just too weird.
InOne
01-05-2013, 07:38 PM
Not something I believe in or have ever been remotely interested in. I really don't know how these types still manage to make money.
Another good Derren Brown one was where he got that guy become a 'healer', sort of works on the same wavelength.
Redway
01-05-2013, 07:48 PM
No. Supernatural forces and all are complete hoaxes.
Niamh.
01-05-2013, 08:24 PM
You can't say how that conversation played out. Was it done in in a Ludo reveal kind of way?
Person x, depression, suicide.
Or was it something like:
You have a friend called Rusty Lee
(Niamh nods, or looks up to recognise the name)
well this is going to happen.
That is completely open, and until Niamhs last breath there is a chance that could be true.
Dates are really easy to get round to cold readers. Firstly you have an instant 1 in 12 chance of being correct to begin with. If you're wrong then they will often change it.
Well that's when they first became ill, someone close to them died in that month - they're with them now everything is great.
It's all linguistics.
It was nothing like your describing Jesus, and tbh I wish I'd never even started talking about it now because it's about something I find quite upsetting still and I don't want to dissect every part of it, there was a bit more to it that I'd rather not go into but I can say that it was pretty believable to me and I'm a fairly sceptical kind of a person.
bbfan1991
01-05-2013, 08:46 PM
Has anyone ever had their palms read?
GypsyGoth
01-05-2013, 08:59 PM
Has anyone ever had their palms read?
Yep and I was really excited to learn that I was gonna have a swimming pool one day. But then I was really grossed out when they spat in the palm of my hand and laughed at me :(
GiRTh
01-05-2013, 09:44 PM
Any believers should watch this whole programme, but at worst from 36mins till the end of the show.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown-the-specials/4od#2921957Great show. Believers will be surprised by it. Its quite uncomfortable to watch when he's telling people about there dead relatives yet we know he's fake.
InOne
01-05-2013, 10:21 PM
Yep and I was really excited to learn that I was gonna have a swimming pool one day. But then I was really grossed out when they spat in the palm of my hand and laughed at me :(
I remember that episode ;)
the truth
01-05-2013, 11:28 PM
Some people are way more perceptive than others, they can read your character and personality pretty quickly from all sorts of tell tale signs.....by listening , by observing their body language, tone of voice, eyes, expressions, lines in your hands etc etc those people that tend to be more observant and patient tend to read people better.....if theres no such thing as spirituality or joy then why the heck does the world need music and love? theres way more to life than the limited predictable narrow minded views of some people. but I draw the line at taking fortune tellers too seriously. I treat it as a bit of fun. I believe we choose our own destinies.
lostalex
02-05-2013, 01:37 AM
No. They are frauds. Some of them are con artists and know they are faking it, and some of them genuinely believe they are psychic, but they are all frauds one way or the other.
It was nothing like your describing Jesus, and tbh I wish I'd never even started talking about it now because it's about something I find quite upsetting still and I don't want to dissect every part of it, there was a bit more to it that I'd rather not go into but I can say that it was pretty believable to me and I'm a fairly sceptical kind of a person.
..I agree with you and I do resent that anyone who has a genuine personal experience of this type being inferred to as in any way 'gullible' because I'm honestly not and wasn't even at the young age I went to see this lady. I do understand that quite a lot of people do go to see these people at a time in their lives when maybe they are a bit 'lost' and are trying to get some direction...so then there's a 'tick list' of possibilities..?...and a chance of getting some of those correct...
..but that wasn't how it was with me...I only went because someone else dropped out and my life was perfectly happy and ok...I don't want to say everything she told me because it's far too personal...but even if I did, then I'm sure it would just be dismissed anyway, which is actually really disrespectful...and also comparing a genuine experience to someone like Derren Brown, who is a self-confessed showman/entertainer and just because he doubts phychic abilities, doesn't mean that they don't exist...and especially as he's already stated that he knows nothing about them in the first place....
...and I'm not saying that I do believe in them either..all I'm saying is that I had a genuine and actually rather upsetting experience one time and it was enough for me to never do it again and decide that it was something I didn't want to delve into any further...there are some things in life that just can't always be explained by 'logic'....the 'tricks/methods' etc can be explained and that's because they are exactly that and something that entertainers like Derren Brown are skilled at...but the possibility of 'psychic abilities' is unproven, which also means that it's equally not proven to not exist either...and there are a lot of people who don't claim to have any of those abilities, but who have had some small kind of 'psychic' experience..far too many to dismiss it as just nonsense, without even giving it any possibility of being true...and those experiences could be anything..a 'feeling' of a loved one after they pass or a sense of deja vue etc..no one can say for certain that there's absolutley nothing in it at all..because some things just cannot be explained...
lostalex
02-05-2013, 04:53 AM
can we please stop pretending that just because someone claims to have a "supernatural" experience that it's real? kthanx.
seek help.
Think about it this way, just like in the criminal justice system we presume someone is innocent before they are found guilty... also remember that these type of supernatural experiences need to be proven TRUE before you call them true. We should always wait for something to be PROVEN true, before we call it true.
Jords
02-05-2013, 05:05 AM
Nope Id like to have it done 1 day just as an experience. I think theyre pretty intelligent on picking up things people say and working it.
can we please stop pretending that just because someone claims to have a "supernatural" experience that it's real? kthanx.
seek help.
Think about it this way, just like in the criminal justice system we presume someone is innocent before they are found guilty... also remember that these type of supernatural experiences need to be proven TRUE before you call them true. We should always wait for something to be PROVEN true, before we call it true.
..Alex, I can't generalise about everyone who claims to have psychic abilities and of course I can't prove them to be true...tbh, I don't even know what I believe to be true with regards to it either..but my own personal 'proof' of this one time experience is that the few things she told me did come true and they were very specific and not something that she could generalise about...there is not really anything else which can be 'proven' about that experience other than what she said did come about...
..I have nothing else to say on the subject as really I don't know anything about it, nor do I have any wish to enlighten myself more either....
lostalex
02-05-2013, 05:23 AM
..Alex, I can't generalise about everyone who claims to have psychic abilities and of course I can't prove them to be true...tbh, I don't even know what I believe to be true with regards to it either..but my own personal 'proof' of this one time experience is that the few things she told me did come true and they were very specific and not something that she could generalise about...there is not really anything else which can be 'proven' about that experience other than what she said did come about...
..I have nothing else to say on the subject as really I don't know anything about it, nor do I have any wish to enlighten myself more either....
but if you believed it to be true, then maybe you MADE it true. A self fulfilling prophecy.
Like a placebo.
but if you believed it to be true, then maybe you MADE it true. A self fulfilling prophecy.
Like a placebo.
..so I 'willed' that person to die then..in the month that I was told they would, even though I had no knowledge of them being ill at the time...?..
lostalex
02-05-2013, 05:31 AM
..so I 'willed' that person to die then..in the month that I was told they would, even though I had no knowledge of them being ill at the time...?..
no, but you associated it with the prophecy to make it fit with the narrative you were given. You willed it to be part of the narrative you were given, I wasn't saying in any way that you MADE someone else die. i don't think think you or the psychic had anything to do with the actual death, you are missing my point.
What if she told 100 other people about a death and she got it wrong, would you know about it? i doubt she advertises her failure rate. but i bet she's very proud of her success rate, right?
If this psychic is actually able to predict when people will die, then why isn't she using her skill with a police force to help the police prevent murders? or hospitals to prevent deaths?
no, but you associated it with the prophecy to make it fit with the narrative you were given.
If this psychic is actually able to predict when people will die, then why isn't she using her skill with a police force to help the police prevent murders? or hospitals to prevent deaths?
..it wasn't the only thing she told me but I'm not prepared to say anymore because it is extremely personal...and it will only be dismissed, as this part has been anyway..but that is everyone's right to do so, just as it's mine to maintain an 'open mind' and not dismiss what I or anyone else have experienced....
Jords
02-05-2013, 05:35 AM
no, but you associated it with the prophecy to make it fit with the narrative you were given. What if she told 100 other people about a death and she got it wrong, would you know about it? i doubt she advertises her failure rate. but i bet she's very proud of her success rate, right?
If this psychic is actually able to predict when people will die, then why isn't she using her skill with a police force to help the police prevent murders? or hospitals to prevent deaths?
failure rate and success rate are the same thing
lostalex
02-05-2013, 05:37 AM
failure rate and success rate are the same thing
No it's not. If you only report your successes, and ignore your failures, that totally manipulates the success/failure rate. That's exactly what i'm saying.
Most of these "psychics" ignore their failure rate by saying "oh well they just weren't OPEN to the process" or some other excuse like that.
"I can ONLY read people who are OPEN MINDED."
Which means when they fail, instead of blaming themselves for failure, they blame their client for not being "open minded" enough.
No it's not. If you only report your successes, and ignore your failures, that totally manipulates the success/failure rate. That's exactly what i'm saying.
Most of these "psychics" ignore their failure rate by saying "oh well they just weren't OPEN to the process" or some other excuse like that.
..but surely unless something is 100% proven, if you don't give possibility and impossibility equal credence, you're also 'manipulating' to your own personal beliefs..
lostalex
02-05-2013, 05:42 AM
..but surely unless something is 100% proven, if you don't give possibility and impossibility equal credence, you're also 'manipulating' to your own personal beliefs..
no, because a scientific experiment doesn't require belief. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in gravity, I can still watch an apple fall from a tree and see gravity. Whether I believe in gravity or not, I can still see it in a scientific experiment over and over and over.
I can believe that the apple will fly up to heaven as hard as I want to believe, but it won't change the fact that apples will fall to the ground. It doesn't matter how much I believe the apple will rise to heaven, or how much I wish it to do something different. It will STILL fall to the ground.
That's how I KNOW that apples fall to the ground.
no, because a scientific experiment doesn't require belief. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in gravity, i can still watch an apple fall from a tree and see gravity. whether i believe in gravity or not, i can still see it in a scientific experiment over and over and over.
I can believe that the apple will fly up to heaven as hard as i want to believe, but it won't change the fact that apples will fall to the ground.
..that's not really a very good analogy though Alex..I'm not talking about something that can be 'seen' in terms of an apple falling downwards...so someone can argue that gravity doesn't exist but that apple will still fall downwards...
..anyway, there is one thing for certain here...we have a timezone difference and I have to get ready for work now..(I think I'm probably already late lol..)..so you have a great day/evening/night, Alex....
lostalex
02-05-2013, 05:56 AM
..that's not really a very good analogy though Alex..I'm not talking about something that can be 'seen' in terms of an apple falling downwards...so someone can argue that gravity doesn't exist but that apple will still fall downwards...
..anyway, there is one thing for certain here...we have a timezone difference and I have to get ready for work now..(I think I'm probably already late lol..)..so you have a great day/evening/night, Alex....
Have a great day at work.
Hope I wasn't being too aggressive Ammi, I don't mean to be aggressive towards you at all.
Jesus.
02-05-2013, 06:35 AM
Some people are way more perceptive than others, they can read your character and personality pretty quickly from all sorts of tell tale signs.....by listening , by observing their body language, tone of voice, eyes, expressions, lines in your hands etc etc those people that tend to be more observant and patient tend to read people better.....if theres no such thing as spirituality or joy then why the heck does the world need music and love? theres way more to life than the limited predictable narrow minded views of some people. but I draw the line at taking fortune tellers too seriously. I treat it as a bit of fun. I believe we choose our own destinies.
How on earth does that mean anything?
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