Local elections: Nigel Farage hails results as a 'game changer'

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22382098

The UK Independence Party have made early gains as the results of council elections across England are declared.

UKIP have won a total of 36 seats and are averaging 26% of the vote in the wards where they are standing.

Polling expert Prof John Curtice said it was a "remarkable performance".

Indeed ..... :pipe:

[arista]

Yes
4 Party UK.

UKIP a protest vote storm
but still has to achieve a Full MP

[Jesus.]

Wow - how amazing.

[Nedusa]

Up to 42 seats now...

[Cherie]

Not really a fan of UKIP. To my mind they are a more sanitised version of the BNP. I can see why disillusioned people voted for them, the BNP have managed to get black and asian people to vote for them so anything is possible.

[Omah]

Up to 42 seats now...

..... and Tories down by 66 ..... :idc:

[arista]

Not really a fan of UKIP. To my mind they are a more sanitised version of the BNP. I can see why disillusioned people voted for them, the BNP have managed to get black and asian people to vote for them so anything is possible.


No I do not think so.
And UKIP has Asian Council leaders

[Jesus.]

The right always does well in times of financial hardship.

People need excuses and scape goats, and parties like UKIP are happy to provide them.

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/5/3/1367567004089/Ukip-leader-Nigel-Farage--010.jpg

[MTVN]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64522000/jpg/_64522183_98341464.jpg

[Nedusa]

UKIP have no real policies only a desire to leave Europe and reduce immigration. They are no where near being able to produce a manifesto that has sensible coherent detailed policies and I think are useful only as a means of registering a protest vote against the current Govt and lacklustre Labour opposition.

[joeysteele]

I think this is more than just a protest vote for UKIP, the successes are impressive, however it could mean a possible 4 party race in elections now for some considerable time.
I think Nigel Farage is the strength for UKIP and people seem to take him at his word on at least some issues.

For Ed Miliband, he needs to really get going and get a good message across, Labour will be doing enough in these elections to be the likely winners of a general election though.

The Lib Dems, need to realise they are not being punished for being in Govt, they are being punished for kicking their voters in the teeth after 2010 after gaining their trust,by supporting some of the most extreme and heartless policies.

For the Conservatives though,they have a leader who was in effect a loser in 2010, failing to turn the successes of a year earlier into an outright election win in 2010.
He is not trusted, he is not also believed now by floating voters as to what he says and promises.
For them,(as with Gordon Brown and Labour in 2008 to 2010), to have any chance of anything resembling a fair result in 2015,they need to replace David Cameron,he is now,in my opinion, their main weakness just as he was their barrier to winning an overall majority in 2010.

I can see UKIP getting Westminster seats in 2015, possibly a fair few of them too.

[arista]

UKIP taking Labour Voters
is Bliss.

Sure they effect all
but Labour Never says anything about UKIP taking their Voters
big error

Ref : Radio5 Live and SkyNewsHD Live

[Nedusa]

I think this is more than just a protest vote for UKIP, the successes are impressive, however it could mean a possible 4 party race in elections now for some considerable time.
I think Nigel Farage is the strength for UKIP and people seem to take him at his word on at least some issues.

For Ed Miliband, he needs to really get going and get a good message across, Labour will be doing enough in these elections to be the likely winners of a general election though.

The Lib Dems, need to realise they are not being punished for being in Govt, they are being punished for kicking their voters in the teeth after 2010 after gaining their trust,by supporting some of the most extreme and heartless policies.

For the Conservatives though,they have a leader who was in effect a loser in 2010, failing to turn the successes of a year earlier into an outright election win in 2010.
He is not trusted, he is not also believed now by floating voters as to what he says and promises.
For them,(as with Gordon Brown and Labour in 2008 to 2010), to have any chance of anything resembling a fair result in 2015,they need to replace David Cameron,he is now,in my opinion, their main weakness just as he was their barrier to winning an overall majority in 2010.

I can see UKIP getting Westminster seats in 2015, possibly a fair few of them too.

I agree with the sentiment in your post but think UKIP have a long way to go before they could be considered a serious rival to the main political party's. The higher the profile of UKIP the more the party will be scrutinised inside and out starting with its members and their affiliations.

Then the party's policies and manifesto will be examined and finally their credibility will be judged if they are to progress to become a party capable of government and not just a vehicle for disillusioned Tory/ Lab/ Lib Dem voters.

I for one welcome the shake up UKIP could bring to the British Political status quo. I think the current main parties are not listening to the British people on a wide range of issues like continuing membership of Europe and uncontrolled immigration. Why can we not have a referendum on Europe in the lifetime of this govt not have to wait to see if the Torys win the next election and hope for a referendum in 2017.

We vote these people into power and we can vote them back out as well...!!!

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-2318751-199B4AE2000005DC-51_964x336.jpg

[arista]

And Joey

UKIP could Stop Labour getting power in 2015

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02553/elections1_2553606b.jpg

[MTVN]

Be interesting to see if they can sustain and build on this momentum over the next two years as we approach the general election, I don't think we've seen the irreversible change in British politics that Farage is hailing just yet, it will take a lot more for them to convince enough of the population of their legitimacy as an alternative option if they want to make any real impact in 2015 and even win a few seats

[Vicky.]

Lib dems are getting absolutely hammered..

Still cant believe in south shields they got half the votes that the BNP did :bored:

[Livia]

UKIP have no real policies only a desire to leave Europe and reduce immigration. They are no where near being able to produce a manifesto that has sensible coherent detailed policies and I think are useful only as a means of registering a protest vote against the current Govt and lacklustre Labour opposition.

Totally agree. They've made some gains in these elections, but they are local elections. They have no policies or clear strategies for the elderly, for schools, for roads... They are a party that offers no answers, only bullet points.

[arista]

Worse 8 more councils with No Control Won


On SkyNewsHD one bloke voted UKIP
and was a Labour voter
Utter Bliss


This is the one Day we need a hour for Ch4News at 7PM
but as its Friday so only 23mins.
Adam Boulton Special Live 7PM tonight
One Hour



And for Feck Sake
someone tell BBCnews Huw Edwards to look at the camera
he keeps running his eyes all over the info in front if him
like a wild rabbit

No One on SkyNewsHD does that

[joeysteele]

Arista,I really don't see UKIP stopping Labour winning in 2015, they may well make it that Labour could miss out on an overall majority but no way can the Conservatives in my view come anywhere near being even the largest party let alone win an overall majority.

I still stand by my prediction of an at least 30 overall majority for Labour in 2015 although the only result other than that which I could see is a Labour/Lib Dem coalition.

There were 20 of us watching these results today and I was amazed that 14 of those watching were really impressed with Nigel Farage.
They were also,(which has just been on), really interested in the exchange,rather cordial exchange too,between Chukka Umunah and Nigel Farage discussing the results and Europe too.

Nigel Farage was pretty scathing too as to David Cameron but said something I really believe will happen, he said Ed Miliband will, by the 2015 election, promise a referendum as to Europe.

Whatever happens in 2015, I cannot see it being enough to save David Cameron from being a one term PM, I still really feel he is the wrong leader and the voters didn't really want him to be PM anyway in 2010.
Hence the no overall result he got despite Labour falling right down to 29% in that election and the Lib Dems only increasing by 1%

These are local elections and maybe not much should be read into them really, however I do think UKIP are here to stay for a fair while anyway.
Nigel Farage does seem to connect with the voters, I wouldn't vote UKIP myself becasue I believe we should be in the EU but I am also impressed with the way he conducts himself. He doesn't come across as slippery.

The thing for me from these local elections is how well the Conservatives did in 2009 when these were held but how they failed,badly too,to win an overall majority in the election a year later.
However, now doing so much more badly this time now, the one sure thing for me is they are definitely gone in 2015.

[arista]

"Arista,I really don't see UKIP stopping Labour winning in 2015"


But by 2015 it can all change.

So Many Hate Ed M.

[joeysteele]

"Arista,I really don't see UKIP stopping Labour winning in 2015"


But by 2015 it can all change.

So Many Hate Ed M.

I don't really think Ed Miliband liked or hated matters as to Labour now becoming the largest and only party able to form a govt, or getting an overall majority of around 30 seats in 2015.
I think a different leader for Labour would only likely make the victory much bigger.

In the same way a new leader of the Conservative party could make the defeat less for them
David Cameron is widely seen as a loser, even more so after these local elections, only UKIP and Labour appear to be rising.

[arista]

I don't really think Ed Miliband liked or hated matters as to Labour now becoming the largest and only party able to form a govt, or getting an overall majority of around 30 seats in 2015.
I think a different leader for Labour would only likely make the victory much bigger.

In the same way a new leader of the Conservative party could make the defeat less for them
David Cameron is widely seen as a loser, even more so after these local elections, only UKIP and Labour appear to be rising.

Yes UKIP gained more than Labour.
and the Greens gained today

By now Labour should be doing far better
and you know it


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-2318751-199BE7BE000005DC-837_634x446.jpg


Ch4News Live just predicated a Hung Parliament
not a Labour Win.

[joeysteele]

Well that is what I said too a likely Labour/Lib Dem coalition possibly although I still believe the electoral system will likely deliver a majority Labour Govt.
Even on those figures above arista, Labour would be at the worst just 2 seats short of an overall majority.
With the fact that Sinn Fein don't take their seats at Westminster and that the SDLP in Northern Ireland support Labour too, they would then already have a workable majority if that was what happened anyway.

However, while it is true UKIP have done amazing in these local elections, it is also a fact Labour gained 291 seats to the Conservatives losing 336.
labour gained 9% as to the projected share of the votes cast while the Conservatives lost 10%
That is pretty significant and it speaks volumes as to the Conservatives chances of real success in 2015,for me anyway.

I largely ignore the Lib Dems now, a loss of 120 seats and down to 14% of the likely votes cast would suggest to me they could even find themselves replaced as the 3rd force in UK politics in a General election if they don't pull away and in a big way too from this Conservative led coalition.

[arista]

Yes But Conservative Still has the most Councils
in England

http://news.sky.com/story/1086321/local-council-elections-ukip-make-big-gains

[joeysteele]

Actually listening to him, Michael Gove would be,in my view, a far better leader of the Conservative party than David Cameron.
He was interesting to listen to when he was talking as to the local elections.

The Conservatives may well have the most councils in England, they had even more councils in 2010 but still didn't get an overall majority, in fact they haven't won an overall majority in a general election for 21 years now.

[Livia]

In my consituency, Conservatives held all 11 of their previously held seats and even gained one from the LibDems. We only failed to gain 1 seat which has been LibDem ever since there were LibDems and we didn't expect to win it anyway, even so our candidate did the work, knocked on doors, canvassed and delivered literature. As a result we did come in second on that seat, raising our majority by quite a bit. UKIP didn't win one seat in my area. Neither did they put out any literature, do any campaigning or (in all but two cases) bother to turn up for the count.

Before people start making predictions about the General Election (which in many cases will be run alongside District Elections in 2015), we have European Elections. Let's see what happens between now and May 2014. I think the Conservatives will be forced into making law a referendum on Europe. Apart from a protest vote, UKIP have got votes because of their stance on immigration and an intention to withdraw from Europe (although they have no strategy for how they plan to do it and how they plan to pay for it). They have very flimsy bullet points when it comes to other issues, which is another reason that I think they're going to fall on their faces in local government.

[lostalex]

I love how the far right has been on the rise for so long in Europe (especially UK, France, Greece, Spain, Italy. Norway) but it's just explained away as "people are unhappy about policies"

ofcourse when the tea party emerges in America, "THEY'RE ALL RACISTS, DUMB RACIST AMERICANS!!!"

The far right in Europe is far scarier than anything going on in America.

[Vicky.]

I never saw the conservative candidate anywhere round here. UKIP were everywhere, constantly..everytime I went shopping they were there, they were round the doors, they were wandering round the streets... Labour knocked on my door once and had a bit of a natter. No sign of the Tories at all..

Possibly because I live in Durham though, and they know theres little to no chance of ever getting in here so why bother wasting time.

[joeysteele]

My home area council has 57 seats, the Conservatives had 42 before this election.
They lost 12 to end up with 30, Labour went from having only 3 seats up to 12, UKIP gained 4 seats and the Lib Dems previously had 8 seats and lost 5 of them.

They nearly lost it to noc but now only have a 3 overall majority down from a 27 overall majority.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22382098

UKIP leader Nigel Farage has hailed gains in council elections across England as a "game changer".

UKIP won over 140 seats and averaged 25% of the vote in the wards where it was standing.

The Conservatives lost 335 seats and control of 10 councils, but retained 18, while Labour gained two councils and boosted its councillors by nearly 300.

Oh, and the Lib Dems lost 124 seats.

:pipe:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22396689


1999 Euros: 7%
2001 Gen Election: 1.5% (saved deposit in one seat)

2004 Euros: 16%
2005 Gen Election: 2.3% (saved deposit in 38 seats)

2009 Euros: 16.5%
2010 Gen Election: 3.2% (saved deposit in 100 seats)

So far, so good ..... ;)

[Suze]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22382098

UKIP leader Nigel Farage has hailed gains in council elections across England as a "game changer".

UKIP won over 140 seats and averaged 25% of the vote in the wards where it was standing.

The Conservatives lost 335 seats and control of 10 councils, but retained 18, while Labour gained two councils and boosted its councillors by nearly 300.

:pipe:

The Tories got in here, but that was expected as it is a known Tory hold. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion that wasn't going to change.

[joeysteele]

I have to admit that I don't think this is a flash in the pan from UKIP.

They did well in the last by-election and in the South Shields one they have also done really well, how the Lib Dems can put anything positive on their placing in South Shields is beyond my understanding, the Lib Dems always claimed the North East as good ground for them.

It is the consistency too though as to UKIP in these council elections,always getting to the high teens to mid 20s as to percentage of votes won.
It will be interesting to see what they do in next years.

I also agree with the statement being made now too that Nigel Farage should likely be considered to be alongside the other party leaders in the leaders debates if they take place at the next election.
If UKIP do hold this success gained today next year I cannot see where he ought to be denied a place in those debates too.

Just maybe something has happened in UK politics this week that will be likely more difficult to reverse than could have ever been imagined.

[arista]

"Just maybe something has happened in UK politics this week that will be likely more difficult to reverse than could have ever been imagined. "

Yes I blame Labour for having the Worst & Wrong Leader
driving Labour voters to UKIP.

[Nedusa]

"Just maybe something has happened in UK politics this week that will be likely more difficult to reverse than could have ever been imagined. "

Yes I blame Labour for having the Worst & Wrong Leader
driving Labour voters to UKIP.

I agree, the current Labour Leader , Ed Miliband is ill suited as a party leader and potential PM. He does not have any charisma or charm cannot really connect with the voters. I would even go as far as to say he lacks presence with an annoying voice and a slight lisp.

He has not made the impact many in the party had hoped for.

[Cherie]

Why they chose him over David is anyones guess...:conf:

[Cherie]

I love how the far right has been on the rise for so long in Europe (especially UK, France, Greece, Spain, Italy. Norway) but it's just explained away as "people are unhappy about policies"

ofcourse when the tea party emerges in America, "THEY'RE ALL RACISTS, DUMB RACIST AMERICANS!!!"

The far right in Europe is far scarier than anything going on in America.

I agree with your sentiments Alex. I read a Spanish forum regularly and the most vociferous voice in favour of UKIP are a section of expats who left England to live in Spain to get away from "all the foreigners", always makes me smile :D:

[joeysteele]

"Just maybe something has happened in UK politics this week that will be likely more difficult to reverse than could have ever been imagined. "

Yes I blame Labour for having the Worst & Wrong Leader
driving Labour voters to UKIP.

Well considering massively far more Conservative usual/possible supporters clearly went to UKIP, by the same token as to what you say above,David Cameron must be a far worse leader to have driven such large numbers of them to UKIP too.

The worst leader of the political parties for me is Nick Clegg though.
Anyone who can dare to really kick so badly in the teeth the people who voted for and trusted the Lib Dems, then go on to ensure he has the maximum time possible of being in power by making sure a fixed parliament was put in place, is clearly someone not fit for any public position never mind having a place in any Govt.

[arista]

Feck Me


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-0-0005986000000C1D-686_634x481.jpg

Joey
Even Michael Foot did better than your Ed Miliboy

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-0-199B6BD9000005DC-301_306x423.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2319253/Even-Michael-Foot-did-better-Gove-taunts-Labour-failure-gain-mid-term-breakthrough.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-0-199B14ED000005DC-810_634x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/5/3/236049/default/v1/lon1001-1-329x437.jpg

[joeysteele]

Very different times then arista, modern politics is a world away from how things were then.
I still say,Ed Miliband is being underestimated, I also think that David Cameron is in fact a loser,he is seen as that by the voters and I also believe by a growing number of Conservative backbenchers and activists too.

I expect easily, at the very least a Labour/Lib Dem coalition after the 2015 election but I still feel that it will be a majority Labour Govt that is voted in,no matter who their Leader is.
Ed Miliband though arista is not my Ed Miliboy, I don't in fact particularly like him myself, he certainly would not have been my choice for a leader of a party but he will despite that, get my vote for Labour at the 2015 election.
Labour will get that vote because I already feel more at home with the policies they are currently beginning to outline and I have not a single bit of respect or liking for the policies this Govt is now pursuing,particularly against the most vulnerable and poorest in society.

I will not feel able to believe or trust what David Cameron says at the 2015 election, his words of guranteeing no full reform of the NHS,then him doing a full reform of it will resound solidily in my ears if I was ever tempted to believe him again.

Nick Clegg, I cannot stand at all,I believe he has no political credibility or political integrity left, All I want to see is him gone from UK politics,(probably to a handsomely paid position in the EU), after 2015 for his betrayal of those who trusted his party and voted for them.

[arista]

"Ed Miliband though arista is not my Ed Miliboy,
I don't in fact particularly like him myself"


Millions Hate Him.

[Niall]

UKIP have no real policies only a desire to leave Europe and reduce immigration. They are no where near being able to produce a manifesto that has sensible coherent detailed policies and I think are useful only as a means of registering a protest vote against the current Govt and lacklustre Labour opposition.

Exactly how I feel about it too. They're only popular because Europe is an easy scapegoat for all the economic woes.

[joeysteele]

"Ed Miliband though arista is not my Ed Miliboy,
I don't in fact particularly like him myself"


Millions Hate Him.

Well millions liikely strongly dislike David Cameron as a leader too but it certainly is not David Cameron's party that is ahead in the polls.
Or even now as to votes cast even in their strongest rural areas as the local elections showed.

Millions may not like Ed Miliband at all,that won't stop enough of them voting Labour though just as the many who dislike David Cameron will still vote for him too but will be really glad to see the back of him after the 2015 election.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22418387

The UK Independence Party is "fundamentally changing British politics" with its goal of "getting our country back", Nigel Farage has said.

"We are the party with the broadest appeal across the country: north, south, east and west, old Labour voters, rural Tory voters, we are a genuinely national political party," he told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show.

"Now, to succeed in Westminster in 2015 we've got to grow and build a lot from here - but please don't think that it's impossible and I promise you this, UKIP is here to stay."

We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him
We're only making plans for Nigel
Nigel just needs this helping hand
And if young Nigel says he's happy
He must be happy
He must be happy in his work

:dance:

[joeysteele]

The simple fact is that the real bulk of Labour voters and also Lib Dem voters will not in enough quantities support UKIP because of their EU stance of withdrawal at any cost.

It is in fact, Conservative voters who are the most volatile now as to the EU and they are the likely best hunting grounds for UKIP.
Even then though I doubt enough will turn to UKIP in a general election although I do think UKIP will do well in 2015,even picking up a few seats,not from Labour or the Lib Dems though but from the Conservatives.

[Omah]

The simple fact is that the real bulk of Labour voters and also Lib Dem voters will not in enough quantities support UKIP because of their EU stance of withdrawal at any cost.

"at any cost" ..... :conf:

I don't think so ..... :nono:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22396690

UKIP is still in the process of formulating the platform on which it will fight the next general election but here is some of what we know so far:

EUROPE: Nigel Farage says he wants an "amicable divorce" from the European Union. Britain would retain trading links with its European neighbours but would withdraw from treaties and end subscription payments, adopting a similar relationship with the EU to Norway or Switzerland.

IMMIGRATION: An end to the age of "mass uncontrolled immigration". It wants a five year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement - and any future migration must be strictly limited to those who can "clearly be shown to benefit the British people as a whole and our economy". Immigrants would not be able to apply for public housing or benefits until they had paid tax for five years. In order to achieve these goals Britain would have to leave the EU because there are no restrictions on other EU citizens moving to the UK while it remains a member.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2012/12/the-ukip-threat-is-not-about-europe/

The single biggest misconception about the UKIP phenomenon is that it is all about policies: that potential UKIP voters are dissatisfied with another party’s policy in a particular area (usually Europe or immigration), prefer UKIP’s policy instead, and would return to their original party if only its original policy changed.

In fact, in the mix of things that attract voters to UKIP, policies are secondary. It is much more to do with outlook. Certainly, those who are attracted to UKIP are more preoccupied than most with immigration, and will occasionally complain about Britain’s contribution to the EU or the international aid budget. But these are often part of a greater dissatisfaction with the way they see things going in Britain: schools, they say, can’t hold nativity plays or harvest festivals any more; you can’t fly a flag of St George any more; you can’t call Christmas Christmas any more; you won’t be promoted in the police force unless you’re from a minority; you can’t wear an England shirt on the bus; you won’t get social housing unless you’re an immigrant; you can’t speak up about these things because you’ll be called a racist; you can’t even smack your children. All of these examples, real and imagined, were mentioned in focus groups by UKIP voters and considerers to make the point that the mainstream political parties are so in thrall to the prevailing culture of political correctness that they have ceased to represent the silent majority.

UKIP, for those who are attracted to it, may be the party that wants to leave the EU or toughen immigration policy but its primary attraction is that it will “say things that need to be said but others are scared to say”. Analysis of our poll found the biggest predictor of whether a voter will consider UKIP is that they agree the party is “on the side of people like me”. Agreement that UKIP shares their values and has its heart in the right place are also more important than policy issues in determining whether someone is drawn to the party. The idea that UKIP “seem to want to take Britain back to a time when things were done more sensibly”, and that “the bigger parties seem more interested in trendy nonsense than listening to ordinary people” both elicited stronger agreement among UKIP considerers than the party’s policy that Britain should leave the EU.


There you have it - not exactly in a nutshell, but in summary ..... :pipe:

[joeysteele]

I simply cannot see any such thing as an 'amicable divorce' from the EU as to the other Nations in it towards the UK.

UKIP want us out the EU, I as a supporter of the UK staying fIrmly in the EU cannot hold to their policy of withdrawal from same.
Of course were a 'binding',(and that is the operative word), referendum held as to staying in or coming out,with the coming out vote winning the day.
Then clearly any Govt of the day during that referendum would have to negotiate that action.

I myself though, cannot see any way it would be welcomed or in any way amicable with the other EU Nations at all.
I also believe the costs to the UK as to investment in the UK and the businesses we already have here,as well as the costs of severance with the EU could be likely enormous.

That is UKIP's policy and it's why I cannot support them but I don't deny a great many people who dislike the EU intensely will give their support to UKIP's arguments.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22429790

The former chancellor of the exchequer, Lord Lawson, has called for the UK to leave the European Union.

Writing in the Times, he said British economic gains from an exit "would substantially outweigh the costs".

He describes the EU as "a bureaucratic monstrosity" and added that after an association with Brussels of 40 years "the case for exit is clear".

Lord Lawson believes that leaving the EU would prove to be a wake-up call for business leaders.

He said that too many of them were content to be in "the warm embrace of the European single market" when the great export opportunities lay in the developing world, particularly Asia.

"The heart of the matter is that the relevant economic context nowadays is not Europe but globalisation. I strongly suspect that there would be a positive economic advantage to the UK in leaving the single market."

He added that severing UK membership would save the City of London from a "frenzy of regulatory activism".

"The heart of the matter is that the very nature of the European Union, and of this country's relationship with it, has fundamentally changed after the coming into being of the European monetary union and the creation of the eurozone, of which - quite rightly - we are not a part."

For these reasons, Lord Lawson says, having voted to stay in the European Common Market, as the EU was known in 1975, "I shall be voting "out" in 2017".

"Not only do our interests increasingly differ from those of the eurozone members but, while never "at the heart of Europe" (as our political leaders have from time to time foolishly claimed), we are now becoming increasingly marginalised as we are doomed to being consistently outvoted by the eurozone bloc."

The peer - who was Margaret Thatcher's chancellor for six years - said the loss of the advantages of being within the single market were "marginal".

"You do not need to be within the single market to be able to export to the European Union, as we see from the wide range of goods on our shelves every day. The statistics are eloquent.

"Over the past decade, UK exports to the EU have risen in cash terms by some 40%. Over the same period, exports to the EU from those outside it have risen by 75%.

"The heart of the matter is that the relevant economic context nowadays is not Europe but globalisation, including global free trade, with the World Trade Organisation as its monitor."

He went on to say that he "strongly" suspects that there would be a "positive economic advantage to the UK in leaving the single market".

The ex-heavyweight enters the ring ..... ;)

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22500121

Education Secretary Michael Gove would vote for Britain to leave the EU if there was a referendum today, he has said.

Mr Gove is the most senior Conservative to date to publicly contemplate backing Britain's exit from the EU, although "friends" of the cabinet minister have previously told a newspaper that is where he stands.

"I am not happy with our position in the European Union but my preference is for a change in Britain's relationship with the European Union," said Mr Gove.

"Life outside would be perfectly tolerable, we could contemplate it, there would be certain advantages."

A current middleweight makes a jab ..... :pipe:

[arista]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22500121



A current middleweight makes a jab ..... :pipe:


Thats all mixed up Spin.
Not what he said
I watched it UnCut.

[Omah]

Thats all mixed up Spin.
Not what he said
I watched it UnCut.

Your extract and source ..... :conf:

[arista]

He is the same as Boris
saying he would want to leave if they changed the Rules in Europe.

[Omah]

He is the same as Boris
saying he would want to leave if they changed the Rules in Europe.

Surely he wants to leave because they won't :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22500121

For years, Mr Gove has been a strident critic of the European Union - and the UK's current relationship with it.

But his remarks are indicative of a broader trend. The centre of gravity within the Conservative Party at Westminster on the issue of Europe has shifted from where it was 20 years ago.

The Sunday Telegraph's headline today "Tories in Europe turmoil" could very easily have appeared in countless editions of the paper over the past two decades.

But being openly Eurosceptic, and willing to consider withdrawal from the EU if negotiations with Brussels are deemed insufficient, is now a mainstream view among Conservative MPs.

:pipe:

[Omah]

BREAKING NEWS:Defence Secretary Philip Hammond tells BBC he would vote against remaining in the EU if a referendum were held now

[arista]

PM David Cameron is on Important trip to America

There is no Split
just a load of angry & scared back benchers
who think UKIP will take there seats

[joeysteele]

One thing is for sure and that is UKIP and Nigel Farage seem to have the Conservatives in a spin on this EU issue now.

I still think the voters are not likely to believe David Cameron as to a referendum and so will likely stick with UKIP.
There is too much still vague as to this referendum form the Conservatives, Cameron is near tying himself up in knots here and at this rate most voters will be sick of the Conservatives going on about it.

I myself would not trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum, if he even did by a miracle get an overall majority in 2015, it would for sure be a small one, with many in his party not wanting to leave Europe at all,if a referendum looked like being lost,then all I can see is David Cameron saying he hasn't the arithmetic of votes to get the referendum held after all.

It would seem now even his own party who are against the EU don't believe him either,hence their wanting to get a guarantee almost, before the next election as to him holding one after that.

Those who are anti EU to the point of really wanting to come out should go with UKIP, at least whether they could influence things or not they would be consistent in pressing for one.
With David Cameron the anti EU voters would just get let down.
Just like the voters who trusted him when he said no full reform of the NHS would be done,then he did it.

What he says he will do he doesn't, what he says he won't do,he does.
Not a man to be trusted for me and especially not with the EU issue,in fact for me not to be trusted with very much now at all.

UKIP sure have him rattled though.

[arista]

"One thing is for sure and that is UKIP and Nigel Farage seem to have the Conservatives in a spin on this EU issue now."

Of course.

Farage is liked
he sits in a Pub and smokes.

Clegg smokes in Secret

[Omah]

Thats all mixed up Spin.
Not what he said
I watched it UnCut.

Defence Secretary Philip Hammond has become the second cabinet minister to say he would vote for Britain to leave the EU if a referendum was held now.

"If the choice is between a European Union written exactly as it is today and not being a part of that then I have to say that I'm on the side of the argument that Michael Gove has put forward," said Mr Hammond in an interview to be broadcast at 19:00 BST.

Earlier, Mr Gove became the most senior Conservative to date to publicly contemplate backing Britain's exit from the EU.

Presumably, Hammond will not be saying what he is going to say, either ..... :laugh3:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22483478

Veteran TV presenter Des Lynam is the latest celebrity to publicly back the UK Independence Party.

Lynam, famed for his unruffled style on camera, said he voted for the Eurosceptic party in last week's local elections.

He has also rewritten the lyrics of Stephen Sondheim's Send in the Clowns in a tongue-in-cheek retort to Ken Clarke's description of UKIP members.

UKIP averaged 25% of the vote and won more than 140 seats in the polls.

"I was delighted to cast my vote for [UKIP leader] Nigel Farage's team in Sussex, where I live," said Lynam.

"I feel they have something to offer the country as a whole, and Sussex."

Mr Farage said: "I am delighted to welcome Des's support in these elections."

He promised that his party would sing Mr Lynam's humorous version of Send in the Clowns at its South East conference on 8 June.

The opening lines of Lynam's lyrics read: "We used to be rich,/ Now we are not,/ But here at last there's a chance,/ To stop the rot,/ Send in the clowns."

What's good enough for Des ..... ;)

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22559041

Former Defence Secretary Liam Fox has said the Conservatives "don't need to panic about UKIP" and should try to avoid "internal strife" on Europe.

Mr Fox told Parliament's House magazine the debate should focus on what sort of "looser relationship" they want.

Mr Fox, who describes himself as "an unreconstructed, free market, Thatcherite, Unionist Eurosceptic Atlanticist", said the Conservatives could win outright victory at the 2015 general election - and Europe would be one of the big dividing lines between the parties.

He added: "We don't need to panic about UKIP and I think that we have a sophisticated electorate in this country who are more than capable in using their votes differently in local elections, European elections and general elections and the era when people would vote for the same party in every kind of election with blind loyalty is behind us.

"I know plenty of Conservatives who would vote UKIP in a European election but never dream of voting anything than Conservative in a general election because the cost in a general election they perceive as being much greater if they get it wrong."

Don't panic, Captain Cameron ..... :eek:

[Omah]

A UKIP donor who said unmarried mothers should be "given a good smack" has said he will give no more money to the party because of the controversy about his views.

Demetri Marchessini, who has made two donations totalling £10,000 to the party, wrote a book arguing women who wear trousers are demonstrating "hostile behaviour".

He told the BBC he stood by his views.

"All my thoughts are traditional thoughts," he said.

"Thoughts that not millions but billions of people have believed."

On his blog, Mr Marchessini dismisses the majority of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church as "old fashioned homosexuality" and suggests there is no such thing as date rape.

Mr Marchessini said he had met UKIP leader Nigel Farage on two occasions but would make no more donations.

He said: "There's been such a fuss about what I've given it's a bore."

'No strings attached'

He said his views were nothing to do with UKIP and were expressed before he became involved with the party.

He was a UKIP supporter, he said, because he wanted the UK to withdraw from the European Union.

"Those are not UKIP thoughts," he said. "They are my thoughts."

In a letter to the Daily Telegraph, which first highlighted his blog posts, he gives a further defence of his views.

He writes: "You also mention that I consider unwed mothers as 'naughty girls'. Of course I do - have they not been so considered since time immemorial? Furthermore, today they are much more naughty than in the past."

A UKIP spokesman said the party's donors did not dictate its policy.

He added: "We neither share nor condone these views. He can donate to whoever he wishes to donate to. Those donations do not come with strings attached."

Good riddance ..... :hmph: