Bedroom tax blamed for woman's suicide...

[Ammi]

A woman who committed suicide left a note blaming the Government's so-called bedroom tax for her death.

Stephanie Bottrill killed herself earlier this month, and wrote in her final letter: "I don't [blame] anyone for me death expect [sic] the government."

Her son Steven, 27, said she was struggling to cope after being told to pay £20-a-week extra for two under-occupied bedrooms at her home in Solihull.

He told the Sunday People: "I couldn't believe it. She said not to blame ourselves, it was the Government and what they were doing that caused her to do it.

"She was fine before this bedroom tax. It was dreamt up in London, by people living in offices and big houses. They have no idea the effect it has on people like my mum."

Ms Bottrill, 53, died 10 days ago.

In the days running up to her death she told neighbours: "I can't afford to live any more."

Solihull Council Labour group leader David Jamieson, who knows the family well, said: "I'm absolutely appalled this poor lady has taken her own life because she was worried how she would pay the bedroom tax.

"I hope the Government will sit up and take notice and reconsider this policy."

The bedroom tax means people of a working age in social housing who have a spare bedroom will find housing benefit claims reduced by £40 to £80 a month.

Ms Bottrill had lived in her £320-a-month home for 18 years as she raised her son and daughter, but could not cope with the extra £80 she had to find every month.

Mr Bottrill said his mother wanted to work, but there was no way she could.

As a child she was diagnosed with the auto-immune system deficiency, Myasthenia gravis.

The illness made her weak and she had to take constant medication.

Doctors had told her she was too ill to hold down a job, but she had never been registered as disabled, so she lived without disability benefit.

Sky's political correspondent Sophy Ridge said: "Downing Street isn't commenting on what it says is a personal matter but clearly this will lead to calls for the policy to be changed.

"Downing Street knows it is controversial. That's why some amendments have been made to the policy already, saying armed services personnel and foster carers won't be affected.

"Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, has argued consistently that he thinks this policy is a fair one, but certainly I think this row is going to keep going."

[Omah]

I blame the government, too ..... :mad:

Rewarding the rich and penalising the poor ..... totally and typically Tory ..... :yuk:

[arista]

Its a Cut back
not a bedroom tax.


Others are going ahead with changes

[Marsh.]

I thought it was a cutback not an actual charge?

[AnnieK]

It amounts to the same thing though really doesn't it? The main issue a lot of people I have spoken to is they requested 2bed properties but none available so the council gave them 3 beds so they now lose money because of the lack of adequate housing. It is an unfair charge/cutback/tax IMO.

[Kizzy]

Too right, it was ill thought out and rushed through without being impact assessed, well now only a matter of weeks into the changes we have our first victim of these 'charges'.

[Vicky.]

She wont be the only one either..people cant be expected to pull money out of thin air..for many it will be a choice between paying the extra rent and eating. Homeless or starve. What a choice.

[arista]

She wont be the only one either..people cant be expected to pull money out of thin air..for many it will be a choice between paying the extra rent and eating. Homeless or starve. What a choice.

I hope she is.


And No one is homeless
its Downsizing,

[AnnieK]

I hope she is.


And No one is homeless
its Downsizing,

Downsizing to what though? Certainly in my area they have removed a lot of the smaller council properties and not replaced them. How can people be expected to downsize to non existent smaller properties?? And will they be compensated for the money spent maintaining and decorating the 3 bed properties if forced to move? I highly doubt it. It is pushing people further into the mire financially.

[arista]

Downsizing to what though? Certainly in my area they have removed a lot of the smaller council properties and not replaced them. How can people be expected to downsize to non existent smaller properties?? And will they be compensated for the money spent maintaining and decorating the 3 bed properties if forced to move? I highly doubt it. It is pushing people further into the more financially.


Whatever they can.


This is Only Council Homes.

[Vicky.]

I hope she is.


And No one is homeless
its Downsizing,

There arent enough smaller properties for everyone affected. So some have no choice but to stay where they are. If they cant afford the extra charge..eventually they will be evicted for rent arrears. = homeless.

[Ninastar]

blaming a tax on suicide... really?

[arista]

There arent enough smaller properties for everyone affected. So some have no choice but to stay where they are. If they cant afford the extra charge..eventually they will be evicted for rent arrears. = homeless.


No the Council must House them

Stop all this Doom talk

[Kizzy]

blaming a tax on suicide... really?

It is not a tax as has been noted, but essentially yes it is to blame the dead woman herself blamed it, did you read the OP?

[Vicky.]

No the Council must House them

Stop all this Doom talk

Thats not true though...

[arista]

blaming a tax on suicide... really?


It was not just that.
Its a Spin on the the Tragic Event

[arista]

Thats not true though...


Then they must tell the press
How bad the Council is.

[Vicky.]

Then they must tell the press
How bad the Council is.

And what good would that do? Nothing at all besides make some of the public whinge on about them wanting homes for life, or spending all their money on booze instead of paying the rent, or whatever the tory line is at the moment.


Edit. Having said that..only one Tory that I know actually agrees with this charge on the vulnerable. And he doesnt understand it really..thinks everyone can just downsize and everything would be fine, even though that cant happen...

[arista]

And what good would that do? Nothing at all besides make some of the public whinge on about them wanting homes for life, or spending all their money on booze instead of paying the rent, or whatever the tory line is at the moment.



Move Town then

[InOne]

No the Council must House them

Stop all this Doom talk

The Social Housing lists are absolutely massive. It takes people years to get rehomed sometimes.

[Kizzy]

Whatever they can.


This is Only Council Homes.

Well folk are not being ousted from their own properties.
And there is no 'mansion tax' is there?

[Vicky.]

Move Town then

Arista..have you ever been on a council waiting list? I was when I moved out of my mothers, I was on the list for about 3 years before I got somewhere. Its a longer wait if you are moving outside of your normal living town too.

[arista]

"have you ever been on a council waiting list? "


No it would be hell

[Vicky.]

"have you ever been on a council waiting list? "


No it would be hell

Exactly. Yet you seem to have this idea that people just get given houses left right and centre. Doesnt work like that at all.

[Ninastar]

It is not a tax as has been noted, but essentially yes it is to blame the dead woman herself blamed it, did you read the OP?

no, i didn't but i don't think you can blame one thing on suicide.

[arista]

Exactly. Yet you seem to have this idea that people just get given houses left right and centre. Doesnt work like that at all.

No I understand its Tough
we are in Hard Times



Vicky Stay Strong

You Have My Respect

[Vicky.]

No I understand its Tough
we are in Hard Times



Vicky Stay Strong

You Have My Respect

Well 'we' arent really in hard times are we... I have had my tax cut, so I have more income than ever before. Richer people than me have the same tax breaks...the very richest avoid tax alltogether and nothing is done about it. And yet the poorest and most vulnerable in society are being hammered over and over again.

[Kizzy]

"have you ever been on a council waiting list? "


No it would be hell

Yes it is, and there are not as many smaller properties as vicky says, the council built many family homes which means that there are considerably less 1 and 2 bed properties in any town. This is what is causing problems for those affected, if there is nothing suitable as an alternative they have to stay put and pay the excess. Or go into private rented accommodation and if welfare dependent it ends up costing the government more in rent than if they had stayed in social housing.

[arista]

Well 'we' arent really in hard times are we... I have had my tax cut, so I have more income than ever before. Richer people than me have the same tax breaks...the very richest avoid tax alltogether and nothing is done about it. And yet the poorest and most vulnerable in society are being hammered over and over again.



No thats changing
New Labour had 13 years to do something but changed it to worse

[arista]

Yes it is, and there are not as many smaller properties as vicky says, the council built many family homes which means that there are considerably less 1 and 2 bed properties in any town. This is what is causing problems for those affected, if there is nothing suitable as an alternative they have to stay put and pay the excess. The alternative is go into private rented accommodation and if welfare dependent it ends up costing the government more in rent than if they had stayed in social housing.



We that will have to do for now

[Vicky.]

We that will have to do for now
Except many cant do that either..as a lot of private landlords wont accept people who get housing benefit..plus theres massive costs involved with moving to private rented properties. When I moved out of social housing and into private rented to be closer to work, I had to pay a months rent upfront, a £500 bond, and a £200 admin fee. This was £1250 alltogether..though I did get the £500 back when I moved out. People who are unemployed or on very low income (workers get HB too) will not have this kind of money available to them to be able to move to private rented.

If they did have that kind of money, they wouldnt need to move out as they would be able to pay the £20 per week relatively easily.

[thesheriff443]

this tax is not fair at all!, but in some area's you can get upto 15,000 to down size depending how many bedrooms you have!

[Vicky.]

this tax is not fair at all!, but in some area's you can get upto 15,000 to down size depending how many bedrooms you have!

Really? I didnt know you could be paid to downsize, where does this happen? This would solve the problem of people not being able to afford to move. Mind I do think 15k is too much..

[AnnieK]

Really? I didnt know you could be paid to downsize, where does this happen? This would solve the problem of people not being able to afford to move. Mind I do think 15k is too much..

I think some compensation is deserved as people spend money on decorating etc and you can't take that with you. I agree £15k is too much surely it woul take a long time to recoup that on the lower rents and/ or tax so it would make better financial sense to leave people where they are??

[thesheriff443]

Really? I didnt know you could be paid to downsize, where does this happen? This would solve the problem of people not being able to afford to move. Mind I do think 15k is too much..

this happens in Berkshire, south east, its five grand per bedroom and you can move to private renting or stay with your council or housing association.

[thesheriff443]

I think some compensation is deserved as people spend money on decorating etc and you can't take that with you. I agree £15k is too much surely it woul take a long time to recoup that on the lower rents and/ or tax so it would make better financial sense to leave people where they are??

they get bigger familys off the waiting list, and its cheaper than building a new house.

[Kizzy]

Except many cant do that either..as a lot of private landlords wont accept people who get housing benefit..plus theres massive costs involved with moving to private rented properties. When I moved out of social housing and into private rented to be closer to work, I had to pay a months rent upfront, a £500 bond, and a £200 admin fee. This was £1250 alltogether..though I did get the £500 back when I moved out. People who are unemployed or on very low income (workers get HB too) will not have this kind of money available to them to be able to move to private rented.

If they did have that kind of money, they wouldnt need to move out as they would be able to pay the £20 per week relatively easily.

Of course, this is what makes this so unworkable. This was a way to reduce the welfare bill and that is all, even the tax break given to the workers on low incomes are affected they give it with one hand and take with the other.

[Vicky.]

this happens in Berkshire, south east, its five grand per bedroom and you can move to private renting or stay with your council or housing association.
Shame its not everywhere really. That seems a very fairer way of going about it..though as I said it does seem extremely high.. thats nearly a years wages for me :laugh:

[AnnieK]

they get bigger familys off the waiting list, and its cheaper than building a new house.

Yeah I guess you're right when you put it like that.

[Vicky.]

they get bigger familys off the waiting list, and its cheaper than building a new house.

But building a new house would cost more NOW, but would save more money in the long run..

This is the correct way of going about this..build more council houses. It seems so simple yet the government dont seem to grasp it.

More houses = more jobs for builders and such too. Save money, plus lower unemployment in one go.

[thesheriff443]

Shame its not everywhere really. That seems a very fairer way of going about it..though as I said it does seem extremely high.. thats nearly a years wages for me :laugh:

but even tho its high not many people take that option people tend to stay in their homes that's why this tax will put pressure on people to down size.

[Kizzy]

this tax is not fair at all!, but in some area's you can get upto 15,000 to down size depending how many bedrooms you have!
I don't believe that for a second, do you mean those forced to move from the capital due to the extortionate rents charged by private landlords there?
This is a separate issue the housing benefit cap.

[thesheriff443]

I don't believe that for a second, do you mean those forced to move from the capital dur to the extortionate rents charged by private landlords there?
This is a separate issue the housing benefit cap.

I don't understand what your saying?, this happens in Berkshire, with council and housing association tenants.

[Kizzy]

this happens in Berkshire, south east, its five grand per bedroom and you can move to private renting or stay with your council or housing association.

This is only available in certain areas, based on the house prices I think.

[thesheriff443]

But building a new house would cost more NOW, but would save more money in the long run..

This is the correct way of going about this..build more council houses. It seems so simple yet the government dont seem to grasp it.

More houses = more jobs for builders and such too. Save money, plus lower unemployment in one go.

there are new houses being built but not fast enough.

[thesheriff443]

This is only available in certain areas, based on the house prices I think.

I never said it was nation wide, and yes in some area's you can buy a house for three grand so it would not make sense.

[joeysteele]

My opinion of this rotten bedroom tax or whatever the Govt would like it disguised as something else and called are well known I would think on here.

The point is when a suicide occurs, there is likely one thing that is the last straw,the final push that someone cannot see a way out of or around their worries and massive anxieties as to it.
In this instance, the lady herself blames the pressure of the bedroom tax and this totally rotten heartless Govt for her even thinking she is at that point.

This is a real tragedy, there has been a loss of life caused at the very least in part by this unnecessary, heartless and discriminatory policy.
The Govt should after reading this, hang their heads in shame and the Lib Dems in particular for ever allowing the Conservatives to bring in such a totally rotten policy.

Had Labour done this, this story would have been all over the major front pages of most of the papers, as it is, it will be kept away from too much headlining because it is a Conservative led Govt that has done this policy.
Someone has lost their life,that is a reality and very sadly I believe she will not be the last either.

History will I hope, record this Govt under David Cameron and in coalition with the Lib Dems as a really dangerous one that had no understanding, compassion or any idea as to real fairness either in its policy making.

If ever a single policy should spell the end of any Govt in power then this 'bedroom tax' is one of the higher placings of such a policy.
This is only the start,wait until those with rent arrears are getting bailiffs around and then also the court applications for eviction orders.

This is what we should be hearing about and will be as this year and next goes on.
The lady who has felt the need to take her own life because of the massive pressures of this rotten grabbing of funds from her already low income deserves this Govt to really get pilloried for not thinking this bedroom charge out more compassionately.
for me though,they should be pilloried for even making such a rotten policy in in the first place.

[Vicky.]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10047884/Twenty-MPs-pocket-up-to-180000-each-on-taxpayer-funded-second-homes.html

Meanwhile..the real parasites are at it again...

Expenses should be abolished. Sick of reading about them being abused whilst those on (other)benefits are made out to be the drains on society.

[Kizzy]

But building a new house would cost more NOW, but would save more money in the long run..

This is the correct way of going about this..build more council houses. It seems so simple yet the government dont seem to grasp it.

More houses = more jobs for builders and such too. Save money, plus lower unemployment in one go.

Of course, that would be an excellent option, with the advancement in prefabricated housing..the glut of workers available..the advent of free schools?
Let's get the town planners in!
We have lots space in the UK, whats the hold up?

[Kizzy]

I never said it was nation wide, and yes in some area's you can buy a house for three grand so it would not make sense.

But how is that right or fair? What is the incentive for local councils to offers these 'sweetners'?
Some are given help to be shunted from the area.. or in some cases the town they know, and bunged a few quid to get the 'undesirables' from the leafy burbs..
Those in less affluent boroughs are left to struggle along penalised for their local authority not having the funds or the properties to assist them?

[Omah]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10047884/Twenty-MPs-pocket-up-to-180000-each-on-taxpayer-funded-second-homes.html

Meanwhile..the real parasites are at it again...

Expenses should be abolished. Sick of reading about them being abused whilst those on (other)benefits are made out to be the drains on society.

Yeah, they can justify it as much as they like, but making personal profit out of expenses funded by the tax-payer should be a criminal offence ..... :mad:

Bankers and politicians ..... :yuk:

[Cherie]

]No the Council must House them
[/B]
Stop all this Doom talk

No that is incorrect, if there isn't a smaller property available you will have to pay the extra regardless. What about people who are in their 70s/80s/90s who have lived in their council homes all their lives, and might in some cases be living in a 3 bedroom property on their own? are they just supposed to up sticks at that time of life from a place that holds all their memories?

[Vicky.]

No that is incorrect, if there isn't a smaller property available you will have to pay the extra regardless. What about people who are in their 70s/80s/90s who have lived in their council homes all their lives, and might in some cases be living in a 3 bedroom property on their own? are they just supposed to up sticks at that time of life from a place that holds all their memories?

It only affects people of working age.

Not that that makes it any better..but pensioners arent affected by this.

[joeysteele]

No that is incorrect, if there isn't a smaller property available you will have to pay the extra regardless. What about people who are in their 70s/80s/90s who have lived in their council homes all their lives, and might in some cases be living in a 3 bedroom property on their own? are they just supposed to up sticks at that time of life from a place that holds all their memories?

In fairness to the Govt Cherie, those born before either September or October 1951 are exempt from the 'bedroom tax'.
However I have come across from others where people in their 70s and 80s have been approached by the housing organisation running council stock,being asked have they considered moving to a smaller property.
Somaybe some subtle persuasion will be attempted in time as to those pensioners.

However as you say why should people given secure tenancies, given an income they were told they had to have to live on after becoming genuinely sick or disabled or fallen on really hard times.
Then be told to claim housing benefit as a full entitlement because of their low income but later to have some jumped up Govt come along and remove those lawfully agreed entitlements stating they have to then pay any extra out of what they were told they had to have to live on.

That is what is totally wrong with this policy and also the fact that there are in no way the smaller properties available to move them to and as you say will likely have to pay the extra anyway while in the house they occupy now.
It is wrong, it will save very little and it should be scrapped completely.

[Cherie]

It only affects people of working age.

Not that that makes it any better..but pensioners arent affected by this.

Oh I see! I could see this working in a booming economy but bringing it in during a recession is just so harsh. Where are the jobs going to appear from to get people back to work?

[Vicky.]

Oh I see! I could see this working in a booming economy but bringing it in during a recession is just so harsh. Where are the jobs going to appear from to get people back to work?

Many people hit by this are already working. But according to the government it is their fault that their employers pay them a pittance...so they must be punished. Same as its the fault of the unemployed that they are unemployed :rolleyes:

[joeysteele]

Many people hit by this are already working. But according to the government it is their fault that their employers pay them a pittance...so they must be punished. Same as its the fault of the unemployed that they are unemployed :rolleyes:

My usual, I totally agree with you Vicky.

It amazes me that so many others cannot see how heartless and wrong this Govt's attitude is to these issues.

[Cherie]

Many people hit by this are already working. But according to the government it is their fault that their employers pay them a pittance...so they must be punished. Same as its the fault of the unemployed that they are unemployed :rolleyes:

but apart from the monetary impact there is also the issue of people having to move from areas and communities that they know well to a different area altogether. Moving may add to the journey time to work and increase their travel costs so moving may not make any financial sense and they could still be worse off.

[Vicky.]

My usual, I totally agree with you Vicky.

It amazes me that so many others cannot see how heartless and wrong this Govt's attitude is to these issues.

People have kinda been programmed to believe that anyone receiving benefits is a workshy layabout. I think this is why some people agree with all that the government is doing to them.

Rather than listening to the bull**** on the news and in the rags..I prefer a 'putting myself in their shoes' approach. Anyone could lose their job or become disabled tomorrow. Imagine having to survive on £71 per week while (now) having to pay part of your council tax, and £20/£30 rent on top of that too. And people saying its your own fault you have to find 20/30 quid..because you shouldnt have a 'spare' bedroom..even though there is nowhere for you to move to. Or the room isnt even spare

eg.

-Disabled people with rooms adapted for their disability are still classed as having a spare room
-Parents who have shared custody
-Couples sleeping in seperate rooms for medical reasons

[Kizzy]

Hello cherie :hug: They don't care is the short answer to your point, the attitude as the conservatives take root once more in power is less 'on your bike' and more 'foff and die'.

[billy123]

The family living next door to my parents just lost their mother she was a lovely lady in her 80's who had lived there for about 40 years with her son and daughter who still live there.

They were contacted by Derbyshire county council before she was even given a send off to be informed that they have to leave their home by a certain date because their mothers name was the one listed to the property and they have no right to be there anymore.

The normal policy has always been that the Tenancy can pass to next of kin who occupy the residence. This family has being told that is no longer the case since the property is now too large for the family.

The arseholes cant even let them bury their own mother before they try and evict them to free up a property.
They are seeking legal advice and have been advised to contest the decision which apparently is related to changes in rules related to the bedroom tax and size of property's.

Utter wankers with no concern for anyone. The extra stress they are putting this family through at what is a hard time is sickening.

Anybody that cant see the problems this is going to cause is either stupid or heartless the stories of it sending people over the edge are going to be frighteningly common i fear.

[Kizzy]

Wow... that is shocking, will they continue to cohabit or will they have to find them 2 1 bed properties? I might look into my tenancy and put my daughter on it if I can.

[billy123]

Wow... that is shocking, will they continue to cohabit or will they have to find them 2 1 bed properties? I might look into my tenancy and put my daughter on it if I can.Who knows Kizzy its bloody heartbreaking they were so close to their mum and now this i fear for both of them. :(
Even if they get to stay they are bastards for even doing this to them for the sake of trying to reclaim their dead mothers bedroom.
It is definately worth looking into as i notice "next of kin" has now being changed to " a husband, wife or civil partner" in the rights of succession rules.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/when_someone_dies/if_a_tenant_dies/succession_rights#what_happens_to_a_tenancy_when_s omeone_dies%3F

Joint tenancy sounds a good thing to do. (bearing in mind the money grubbers would soon get onto charging the bedroom tax for the still warm bed)
"If you have a joint tenancy with another person and the other tenant dies, you will be the 'surviving tenant', and you will automatically take over the tenancy."

[Kazanne]

blaming a tax on suicide... really?

Exactly,my thoughts Ninastar,don't believe that 's what drove her to that at all.

[joeysteele]

I think when you have someone who has near been stripped of a lot of status and then finds the law stripping them of further status, not because they have done anything legally wrong but only because they are sick,disabled,vulnerable or even just on a low income then that action against them would also remover much of their dignity.

Many people don't like admitting they cannot cope, they don't ask for help, they fear a no or sort yourself out attitude.

I don't say the Govt caused this suicide obviously but I do 100% believe in part this Govt policy caused so much anxiety and panic and fear of shame too that it was the final push to make this poor woman take such a desperate measure.
That policy and for that effect I do strongly believe this Govts. bedroom charge/tax was in a very great part a contributory factor in being the final push to this tragedy.

[Suze]

With regards to the money offered for each bedroom, it obviously varies from place to place. Here is it £1,000 a bedroom with removal costs, and that is not assured, there is nothing to say everyone who take up the offer of moving will get it. Also that money won't go far in replacing carpets etc; in moving. The upheaval itself away from possibly family and friends, and also the trauma of the move itself especially for the disabled has to be considered, plus the fact as has been pointed out, there are not going to be the properties available for all who require the smaller properties so they have to carry on paying the bedroom tax.

Not all councils are happy to implicate it, and one of my sisters told me where she is, there are some three bedroomed flats that where one bedroom is so small, the council not consider that as 3 bedroomed property so have taken it upon themselves to declare them 2 bedroomed to help those in the properties re the bedroom tax.

I feel sure in time a loophole of some kind will be found that the tax is wrong and it will be done away with. I respect the debates of all for and againsts this goverment policy on this site. At the end of day imo this is a greedy government who are down on the most needy and going the wrong way about a lot of their Policies. A Goverment that is happy to take from the poor and needy without any compassion, yet want a substancial payrise at the same time. The bedroom tax is the tip of the iceberg and as time goes on I can see a stand being made against this Government by many. IMO, there is no way whatsoever they will be our next Goverment, although a lot of damage will have been done.

A lot of blame can be laid at previous Governements feet, and in a lot of instances rightly so, but it doesn't mean each subsequent Goverment need carry on such mistakes, and if you keep going back to previous Goverments mistakes, it pretty much started around the Thatcher era, another Tory Government.

There, I have said my piece and will leave it at that. Just needed that little rant :D

[joeysteele]

Rant away Suze,really strong and good points.

I also cannot see this Govt being the next Govt either and I also really believe as this policy hits more and more,with more heard about the injustice and heartlessness of it that this will in fact be one of the major nails in this Govts. coffin.
I have said that since I started learning more as to it and hearing for myself from people affected by it.

Like the Woman of 55 I spoke to a few months ago, she has 2 Grandchildren a girl and a boy, she has had to move to a one bedroomed flat which also only has a sitting room, not of any great size itself either.
Her Grandchildren used to love going to stay with her in the Summer holidays and other school holiday periods too and she loved having them too.

Now they cannot because where she lives is not large enough to have children staying for any length of time not to say also unhealthy too.
Another impact this will have on people who have done not a thing wrong other than be in need of help and on very low incomes.

[cheeky_monkey]

Disgusting and heartless!

RIP Stephanie :(

[lostalex]

It's just like that idiot woman who killed herself after that AUstralian radio prank pretending to be the Queen and people blamed the radio DJ's. Gimme a break.

[joeysteele]

It's just like that idiot woman who killed herself after that AUstralian radio prank pretending to be the Queen and people blamed the radio DJ's. Gimme a break.

A bit harsh Lostalex but I respect your right to say it.

However in both cases we likely don't know what other pressures these women were under, the problem is that when someone is probably under great stress and worry that it just takes that final thing to happen that can be the tipping point over the final edge.

For me, maybe that Nurse was terrified of what may happen to her job, seeing that the Royal Family were involved.
Then this poor woman in the news today, clearly it seems she must have felt stuck in a downward spiral oif worry over money and how she may cope, once she realised the crippling financial loss she was to sustain because of this bedroom tax/charge,then for her that was clearly switch off time,she couldn't take anymore sadly.

WE are all different, some people cope with pressure,worry and stress okay but others don't and that makes them vulnerable,needing to be built up not brought down,in my opinion anyway.

[Kizzy]

Whether it was the only thing or the straw that broke the camels back, the fact is in both cases the deceased named the issues as the deciding factor in their final words. The problem to them was so large they saw no way over, past or through it, we cannot judge and suggest their fears were trivial.. that would be wrong.

[lostalex]

I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying you can't blame a LAW (or a radio prank) for someone committing suicide, and for her to blame her choice to commit suicide on that is just ridiculous and makes no sense. Clearly the woman had serious psychological problems and needed help. If someone is THAT fragile, the family and friends should have stepped in LONG before it came to this.

[joeysteele]

I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying you can't blame a LAW (or a radio prank) for someone committing suicide, and for her to blame her choice to commit suicide on that is just ridiculous and makes no sense. Clearly the woman had serious psychological problems and needed help. If someone is THAT fragile, the family and friends should have stepped in LONG before it came to this.

That may well be correct,however often people depressed or under great stress don't ask for help, they should but they don't fearing a negative reaction.

Sadly too, where money is concerned people feel shame when they cannot cope and get into financial difficulties but they do their best to hide it rather than admit they have such a problem.

That is why this policy should have been far better planned and made with a lot more fairness and understanding to it too, rather than just bulldozered in across the board with little and even no idea as to how heavily or badly it would hit those affected by it.

That is the Govts fault, and if this policy was the final thing that pushed this Lady into thinking she could take no more then it was at the very least a contributory factor to the tragedy that then occurred.

She was likely going to be under the threat of losing the home she knew and likely felt safe in, she had very low income too,so knew no way could she get around that.
She would likely feel a failure and also expect great shame to come from her plight of trying to cope with such a loss of income.
An entitlement she was given, suddenly drastically cut, no appeal as to it either,all that is the Govt's fault,no one elses.

Yes she took her own life but all the more reason for those in power and the architects of this policy to re-think the policy, so no one else feels they have no way out as to coping with this heartless and discrimatory charge they have to pay, from the income they were originally told they had to have in law to live on.

[GypsyGoth]

I think her family could have helped her, maybe they could have paid the extra money that she was losing. After all she did raise them.

And maybe she could have been persuaded to move in with one of them, she was depressed, so maybe it wasn't the best thing that she was living alone.

[joeysteele]

I think her family could have helped her, maybe they could have paid the extra money that she was losing. After all she did raise them.

And maybe she could have been persuaded to move in with one of them, she was depressed, so maybe it wasn't the best thing that she was living alone.

It can be lot of money to find GypsyGoth though, I know of a Lady who is in a 3 bedroomed house and she has to pay an extra £23 each week.
Few people have those funds available to help and also while it is on paper a fair idea to move in with family, she was still losing her home that she knew and which she was tenant of.

Once you move in with others, even family, it is not 'your' home anymore it is theirs, it is likely to cause more depression and lower self esteem in the long run.

This policiy has only hit from April, maybe she hadn't realised the massive loss to her income it would bring, maybe she tried to hide her financial problems.

I fail to see the need for this policy at all, all that is needed is new houses being built,which in turn would cut unemployent and give a massive boost to the construction industry.
Far better than setting out to distress and penalise people simply for being in need and having a very low income.

[Kizzy]

How to get rid of the bedroom tax as a policy . It is a simple letter saying that all social tenants should query the bedroom tax decision. They should write to their local council asking HOW they made the bedroom tax decision and request further information such as written copies of the bedroom tax policies it has. Using Liverpool as an example it would see the council there needing 632 officers just to deal with such requests from the 12,649 bedroom tax tenants in Liverpool. This would apply to every council of course and give huge cost and huge disruption to the councils and is perfectly lawful, and in fact is your absolute right.
It need not even cost you the price of a stamp as you can hand it in to your local council one-stop shop. There is also nothing to stop you asking for more information and more explanation on a daily basis with different questions each time – heaping chaos onto chaos onto chaos. That meltdown is of course unfair on your local council and they have only made the decision following orders from central government.
Yet they will start ‘moaning’ and moaning en masse to central government over the cost and pressure starts to build on central government. Because Housing Benefit staff at your local council are running around like headless chickens complying with your request for further information and explanation, their normal work suffers. The landlords, both social landlords and private landlords will see delays in deciding and paying HB claims and private landlords may well decide the benefit claimant is too much trouble and start evicting….which means your local council has more and more work and cost of much higher homelessness cases…as does central government too.

[Vicky.]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/15/bedroom-tax-illegal-human-rights-disability-_n_3280442.html

Good luck to these people. I really think they have a good case here

Also, DWP finally admit that its a money saving exercise and not about freeing up housing for sardine families as previously claimed...

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) rejects the "bedroom tax" tag and says the reality is that "a spare room subsidy" has been removed from social sector tenants.

DWP lawyers say reduction of rising housing benefit expenditure is an "integral aspect" of the Government's deficit reduction programme, and the change in regulations is expected to produce savings of £500m a year.