should we be able to deport hate preachers ?

[waterhog]

should we be able to deport hate preachers ? 27.05.13

common sense won't prevail,
because we have a own error,
it will only get heavier on the scale,
not going to end any merrier.
we have a network that's superb,
all helped by the "liberty" that's "civil",
people like "Anjem Choudary" we can not curb,
we give a platform to spread there drivel.
i firmly believe if you are a "hater",
leave this awful destination,
head home and spread ways to be a people grater,
let the uk build as we need restoration.
we have to rule by majority,
our past is our teacher,
this is why we need a firm authority,
to instantly deport any hate preacher.
come on kingdom that's united,
lets not give "hate" a light that's green,
with "Cameron" his words are not yet invited,
because they don't go far enough and its no time to be lean.

( http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/government-deport-any-hate-preacher )

[arista]

Deport to what place?

Scotland?

He is English


http://change-production.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4/jw/lq/pfJwlQilKOeOMJo-556x313-noPad.jpg?1369644612

[Omah]

Deport to what place?

Scotland?

He is English

The Pitcairn Islands ?

[lostalex]

Arn't the Kenyans claiming that they deported the Woolich killer back to Britain for being a suspected extremist?

Sounds like Kenya has the right idea.

[arista]

Arn't the Kenyans claiming that they deported the Woolich killer back to Britain for being a suspected extremist?

Sounds like Kenya has the right idea.



Kenya chucked them back to UK

[joeysteele]

Yes and if they are English then they should be arrested and removed from the community for whatever charge can be made against them.
Inciting others to commit violence for starters.

[Ninastar]

No, people should be allowed to have their own say, however ridiculous/barbaric/small minded.

Once things start to become physical/more than words etc, than yes please deport them.

[Kizzy]

Fingers are going to start being pointed at the failings in counter terrorism, I read one was moved to the country by his parents as he was being radicalised. This would have been about the time of 9/11, it should be asked if this could have been prevented.

[Jesus.]

Yes and if they are English then they should be arrested and removed from the community for whatever charge can be made against them.
Inciting others to commit violence for starters.

Isn't that using the law in reverse, Joey?

Hate preachers is just a trendy new term. No one is suggesting we should deport Christians who preach that being gay is a sin, or the womans right to choose is murder.

I don't understand why people think freedom of speech is so dangerous. You could tell me a million times that a man living in the clouds wants me to blow myself up, and it won't change my life in the slightest.

[Kizzy]

Hate clerics are a dangerous tool used by extremeist groups of muslim fudamentalists.
They are the link between young muslims and indoctrinated terrorists.

[Lee.]

Yes we should. If an immigrant to this country isn't prepared to live on peace without spouting hate then we should have a right to tell him to **** right off and preach his bile in his own country

[MTVN]

Does someone like Tommy Robinson count as a hate preacher too?

[joeysteele]

Isn't that using the law in reverse, Joey?

Hate preachers is just a trendy new term. No one is suggesting we should deport Christians who preach that being gay is a sin, or the womans right to choose is murder.

I don't understand why people think freedom of speech is so dangerous. You could tell me a million times that a man living in the clouds wants me to blow myself up, and it won't change my life in the slightest.

Yes to a degree,I agree with you.
However we have to start somewhere, I have said on several threads,I can only speak from my own perspective,I have no concrete answers,I don't even know if there are any answers at present.

However, if you are setting out to incite, support and absolve violence from others to others then for me that needs dealing with and a slap on the wrist and warnings are not going to achieve anything at all.

I simply don't know,I have cousins in the forces, I am well aware we could hear one day of a loss,I do though think they should, in their own Country, be free from those spouting hate against them and actively preaching it is alright to kill or attack certain people.
I don't know though,I have no answers myself, so for me all that can be would be on the table for me to consider dealing with this issue.

[Lee.]

Does someone like Tommy Robinson count as a hate preacher too?

If course he is! His views are as disgraceful as anybody elses

[Kizzy]

It would be counterproductive to deport them, there are planes and the internet... At least here they can be monitored.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech...
It will result in greater controls of social media simply because this is the medium they are using to control and exploit these young men.
No it may not affect you but it can and has happened, the government has decided that this must be acted upon, if it saves a life then it's worth it for me.

[Jesus.]

Does someone like Tommy Robinson count as a hate preacher too?

Only if he converts to Islam.

[Jesus.]

It would be counterproductive to deport them, there are planes and the internet... At least here they can be monitored.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech...
It will result in greater controls of social media simply because this is the medium they are using to control and exploit these young men.
No it may not affect you but it can and has happened, the government has decided that this must be acted upon, if it saves a life then it's worth it for me.

It has everything to do with freedom of speech. If the law can decide on someone elses motives, then when is the line crossed. This whole thread is a freedom of speech issue.

[lostalex]

I certainly believe in freedom of speech. but if i go around talking about how attractive i think young children are and how everyone should embrace the love between grown men and small children, i think the government should absolutely be keeping an eye on me. Same for people with these extremist violent islamic views. I think the government absolutely should be spying on people with those views. Not just muslims, but anyone who goes around justifying and glorifying criminal views like that. If it's islam, or pedophilia, or enviornmentalists, or anti-abortionists, or racists, it doesn't matter, but anyone who supports those extremeist views ONLINE should be watched closesly, and if they are instructing other people, that in an of itself is a crime.

If it turns out that anyone that watched their videos online went on to commit a crime then the preacher should also be held accountable.


just like Charles Manson never actually killed anyone, but he is still considered a serial killer, because the ideology he spread. he brainwashed people into killing other people. I think these hate preachers should be in jail just like Charles Manson is in jail.

[Kizzy]

It has everything to do with freedom of speech. If the law can decide on someone elses motives, then when is the line crossed. This whole thread is a freedom of speech issue.

In the case of hate clerics I think their motives have over the years since 9/11 have been pretty clear...
Will that impact on their freedom of speech?.. Probably.
Do I care?... No.

The hate laws we have specifically state that inciting racial hatred is a crime, therefore freedom of speech is already called into question right there.
You cannot legally do this; ergo you must stop, or be stopped.

[Livia]

When freedom of speech becomes inciting violence, or religious or racial hatred, then the law is invoked. If the person concerned is not a British citizen, I see no reason at all why they should not be deported. Other countries do it, I don't see any outcry about that? Why should Britain be the world's bleeding heart when it comes to hate clerics, at the expense of its other citizens of all religions?

[Jesus.]

Because it's the worlds biggest game of sweeping s**t under the carpet. Deporting a so-called hate cleric has no affect on the ideology of anyone. The same rules that allow me to call Mohammed a paedophile, should enable followers of his to say we're murdering people in the middle east and revenge is viable.

[Jack_]

Only if he converts to Islam.

LOL, so true.

[Kizzy]

Because it's the worlds biggest game of sweeping s**t under the carpet. Deporting a so-called hate cleric has no affect on the ideology of anyone. The same rules that allow me to call Mohammed a paedophile, should enable followers of his to say we're murdering people in the middle east and revenge is viable.

You are suggesting that all Muslims and in fact the whole of the middle east are extremists.

[Jesus.]

In the case of hate clerics I think their motives have over the years since 9/11 have been pretty clear...
Will that impact on their freedom of speech?.. Probably.
Do I care?... No.

The hate laws we have specifically state that inciting racial hatred is a crime, therefore freedom of speech is already called into question right there.
You cannot legally do this; ergo you must stop, or be stopped.

"hate speech" can be viewed as pretty meaningless, unless it's something you care about. When people start campaigning for Christians preaching that gays will burn in hell, to be deported then we can look at it.

Is the hate speech of a cleric really classed as "racial hatred?" What if he's a honky, like me?

[Jesus.]

You are suggesting that all Muslims and in fact the whole of the middle east are extremists.

No. I'm really not.

[Kizzy]

"hate speech" can be viewed as pretty meaningless, unless it's something you care about. When people start campaigning for Christians preaching that gays will burn in hell, to be deported then we can look at it.

Is the hate speech of a cleric really classed as "racial hatred?" What if he's a honky, like me?

Well that is the freedom of speech we all want, now if they were calling for people to chop the heads off gays it would be a different ball game

It is still inciting racial hatred regardless of the ethnicity of the preacher.

[Kizzy]

No. I'm really not.

You just did, they are a small but dangerous minority, you made a generalisation that enveloped the whole of the middle east.

[Ninastar]

even if it's generalising, it's true.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/uploads/6/68/IEP_global_terrorism_index_top_10.png

[Jesus.]

Well that is the freedom of speech we all want, now if they were calling for people to chop the heads off gays it would be a different ball game

It is still inciting racial hatred regardless of the ethnicity of the preacher.

So the crossover line is calling for someone to be killed? I've seen loads of people on this forum calling for the reintroduction of capital punishment. Are they engaging in hate speech?

You just did, they are a small but dangerous minority, you made a generalisation that enveloped the whole of the middle east.

No I didn't, Kizzy. Only Mohammedans would take offence at me calling their prophet a paedophile, so it stands to reason, that they're the ones I would be addressing. The only way you can read what I said, and assign the meaning you gave it, is actually if those are your beliefs.

The same rules that allow me to call Mohammed a paedophile, should enable followers of his to say we're murdering people in the middle east and revenge is viable.

Now unless you think every person in the middle east thinks/believes that, then it's quite an absurd accusation to throw at me.

[lostalex]

You are suggesting that all Muslims and in fact the whole of the middle east are extremists.

Jesus didn't say anything even remotely like that. :bored:

[Kizzy]

So the crossover line is calling for someone to be killed? I've seen loads of people on this forum calling for the reintroduction of capital punishment. Are they engaging in hate speech?

That is people discussing a change in the law, not terrorism.



No I didn't, Kizzy. Only Mohammedans would take offence at me calling their prophet a paedophile, so it stands to reason, that they're the ones I would be addressing. The only way you can read what I said, and assign the meaning you gave it, is actually if those are your beliefs.

That is how your post read jesus, you may have meant Mohammedans but that is not what you inferred.


Now unless you think every person in the middle east thinks/believes that, then it's quite an absurd accusation to throw at me.

Why is it absurd? I can only comment on your post, it was not clear what you were trying to say but that is how it sounded to me.

[Kizzy]

even if it's generalising, it's true.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/uploads/6/68/IEP_global_terrorism_index_top_10.png

See... now ninastar thinks it's true.

[Jesus.]

1) That is people discussing a change in the law, not terrorism.


2) That is how your post read jesus, you may have meant Mohammedans but that is not what you inferred.



3) Why is it absurd? I can only comment on your post, it was not clear what you were trying to say but that is how it sounded to me.

1) I've seen people say it would be better if person x was murdered loads of times. The case of the children being accidentally murdered in a fire started by the parents and their friend (Sorry the name really escapes me) is a prime example. If someone would have actually gone through with it and then said they'd seen James (for arguments sake) say it a few times, do we start trying to deport James?

2) Mohammedans are followers of Mohammed. There is no other thing I meant to infer. Just not every single one of them on the planet.

3) Seemed pretty clear to me, and Alex didn't read it that way.

[Jesus.]

See... now ninastar thinks it's true.

Possibly more as a reaction to your post, than reading mine.

[Ninastar]

never really meant it as the whole of the middle east... but i think you get the picture

[lostalex]

From that map it looks like the most terrorism happens around the most important places. you see a build up in central america going towards the US, you see a ton around the borders of China, and you see a bunch around western Europe. SO it seems most terrorism happens on the borders of the richest places.

[Ninastar]

I bet Australians are proud

[Kizzy]

1) I've seen people say it would be better if person x was murdered loads of times. The case of the children being accidentally murdered in a fire started by the parents and their friend (Sorry the name really escapes me) is a prime example. If someone would have actually gone through with it and then said they'd seen James (for arguments sake) say it a few times, do we start trying to deport James?

2) Mohammedans are followers of Mohammed. There is no other thing I meant to infer. Just not every single one of them on the planet.

3) Seemed pretty clear to me, and Alex didn't read it that way.

Well I'm not sure how most of this is relevant....
You can't equate people debating the law as a hate crime.
Once again you did not state Mohammedans only in your post though, it was as I said a bit general.
I can't speak for anyone else but like I said ninastar did post how widespread terrorism was in the middle east, I don't think she would have done that had I not questioned your post so you may be right there.