Al-Rahma Islamic Centre destroyed by fire...

[bbfan1991]

An Islamic centre in north London has been destroyed by a fire.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67993000/jpg/_67993183_67993178.jpg

It is not yet known whether the Al-Rahma Islamic Centre, which is listed as a mosque, was set alight deliberately in the early hours.

A Met Police spokesman said it was investigating the cause of the blaze which led the two-storey building in Muswell Hill to partially collapse.

The centre on Coppetts Road is used by the Somali Bravanese Welfare Association.

BBC London correspondent Kurt Barling, who is at the scene, said the centre's leaders had told him they had seen freshly sprayed racist graffiti on the building and that they were concerned the fire was in reaction to the killing of a soldier in Woolwich.

'Have our support'

Borough Ch Supt Adrian Usher said: "I have spoken to community leaders and assured them that a thorough investigation is being conducted.

"The safety of our communities is always our priority and we are consulting widely, offering our support and reassurance.

"All communities can be confident that they have our support and I can be contacted personally to answer their concerns."

Two properties were evacuated and no-one was reported to be injured however one woman was treated for shock.

A fire service spokesman said the brigade was called at 03:14 BST.

Six fire engines and about 35 firefighters tackled the blaze which was brought under control just over an hour later.

[arista]

No one dead
thats good

[Nedusa]

I wonder if this was one of the Islamic centres used for "hate" preaching ??

[Cherie]

Be a bit of a coincidence if it is accidental.

[lostalex]

hate begat hate

[Tom4784]

Very suspicious timing, I'd be surprised if it wasn't some ignorant mouth breathing mutants behind it.

[Livia]

"It is not yet known whether the Al-Rahma Islamic Centre was set alight deliberately". So this is just a story about a building that burned down... until there is some actual evidence, right?

[MTVN]

Well EDL graffiti has been found at the scene, it would be pretty remarkable if it was not racially motivated

[Kizzy]

Yes it helps if you read the article,I am surprised there hasn't been more of a backlash by the bigots.

[lostalex]

Yes it helps if you read the article,I am surprised there hasn't been more of a backlash by the bigots.

Which bigots are you talking about? the muslims or the anti-muslims?

[Nedusa]

Perhaps incidents like these may increase , perhaps murdering and trying to publicly behead a man on the streets of London is the line in the sand which has finally pushed the knuckle dragging brigade into action...

Perhaps the next incident like this will have far more dire consequences with many Muslims burned to death...!!!!

Perhaps the religious war is not that far away after all...!!!

[joeysteele]

Perhaps incidents like these may increase , perhaps murdering and trying to publicly behead a man on the streets of London is the line in the sand which has finally pushed the knuckle dragging brigade into action...

Perhaps the next incident like this will have far more dire consequences with many Muslims burned to death...!!!!

Perhaps the religious war is not that far away after all...!!!

That paints a sad picture Nedusa but I do overall agree with you.

I think for a lot of people the barbaric murder of Lee Rigby is the last straw and feeding on that anger which a growing number of people have as to that, it may well be the door is opened to far worse as to reprisals as you say.
In my view not only from those very angry but also the opportunists who will use this horrific incident to their own agenda and advantage too.

Worrying times.

[Cherie]

It was reported yesterday that before "Woolwich" there was an average of 14 attacks a day on Muslims/Muslim culture, (this is countrywide, not just London) since Woolwich, the attacks have risen to 71 per day sad times indeed.

[Nedusa]

I keep saying that Muslim leaders need to be far more vocal in their response to the Woolwich murder. Not just condemning the act but using the incident to shock the mainstream Muslim masses into finally coming out publicly and questioning the whole area of radicalisation amongst young muslim men.

To publicly state that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance not hatred war and murder. To my mind the Muslim majority in the UK must stand up and be counted as their comparative silence amongst some sections gives succour to some of these hate filled evil preaching Imams.

Non Muslims in the UK cannot continue to stand up alone and state that the Majority of Muslims in the UK are against the way their religion is twisted by extremism when the majority of Muslims in the UK stay silent.

[Kizzy]

That is a great point, You can't turn a blind eye or a deaf ear here, muslim communities have a huge role to play and they will be looking for an indication it is ok to speak out.

[Cherie]

Yes I agree with that point also they are not vocal enough in condemnation.

[Me. I Am Salman]

But Muslim organisations have? And I saw so many news channels days after the Woolwich attack showing footage of leaders comdemning the attacks. My local mosque was giving a talk on terrorism before Friday prayers and I should imagine the rest are too, mosques are not a breeding ground for terrorism as a lot of ignorant disgusting minded people think

What more is there to do? Everyday Muslims are as much to blame as you are, terrorists aren't our responsibility and we don't know any of them

[Jack_]

Muslims leaders shouldn't even have to speak out, it's disgusting that the narrow-mindedness we have in this country make them feel the need to. Anyone that thinks what happened a few weeks ago, or any other terrorist act committed in the name of Islam for that matter, represents the majority of Muslims quite frankly needs to be exterminated for being a ****ing ignorant, brainwashed moron.

[Kizzy]

But Muslim organisations have? And I saw so many news channels days after the Woolwich attack showing footage of leaders comdemning the attacks. My local mosque was giving a talk on terrorism before Friday prayers and I should imagine the rest are too, mosques are not a breeding ground for terrorism as a lot of ignorant disgusting minded people think

What more is there to do? Everyday Muslims are as much to blame as you are, terrorists aren't our responsibility and we don't know any of them

I didn't say in the mosques salman, I said in the community..
Keeping your eyes and ears open for actions or odd behaviour that you feel may indicate radicalisation.

[Livia]

Well EDL graffiti has been found at the scene, it would be pretty remarkable if it was not racially motivated

"the centre's leaders had told him they had seen freshly sprayed racist graffiti on the building and that they were concerned the fire was in reaction to the killing of a soldier in Woolwich."

There is hearsay that someone had seen some "racist grafitti" on the building, and no where does it say that the EDL was responsible. As usual there's a knee-jerk from people when we hear the word "Muslim". Articles like this add fuel to the fire - no pun intended. Once there is some evidence, then people can get all outraged.

[Me. I Am Salman]

I didn't say in the mosques salman, I said in the community..
Keeping your eyes and ears open for actions or odd behaviour that you feel may indicate radicalisation.

Terrorism isn't as widespread as people think.

[Kizzy]

''Police have also confirmed that graffiti reading "EDL" – which may stand for English Defence League, a far right group – was found at the building, while neighbours reported hearing a loud explosion in the early hours of Wednesday morning.''

There's no smoke without fire.... pun intended.

[Livia]

Muslims leaders shouldn't even have to speak out, it's disgusting that the narrow-mindedness we have in this country make them feel the need to. Anyone that thinks what happened a few weeks ago, or any other terrorist act committed in the name of Islam for that matter, represents the majority of Muslims quite frankly needs to be exterminated for being a ****ing ignorant, brainwashed moron.

If you want to talk about narrow-mindedness, there are a fair few narrow minded people in the Muslim community. Those who want to bring Sharia Law here for instance, who keep their women at home pregnant, barefoot and speaking their native language, who hate the British way of life... if I was a Muslim, I would want to distance myself from those people, and clearly many decent Muslims want to do that.

I find it slightly offensive that you're calling for anyone but terrorist scum to be exterminated, frankly.

[Kizzy]

Terrorism isn't as widespread as people think.


Of course it isn't it is spread out and sporadic, that's why it's so hard to pinpoint and to predict.
Which is why there is the need for vigilance in all areas.

[Livia]

''Police have also confirmed that graffiti reading "EDL" – which may stand for English Defence League, a far right group – was found at the building, while neighbours reported hearing a loud explosion in the early hours of Wednesday morning.''

There's no smoke without fire.... pun intended.

There is frequently smoke without fire. And it's a dangerous assumption to make that there is not.

[Kizzy]

Well we shall wait and see what the investigators have to say shall we?

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/06/gallery-fire-at-al-rahma-islamic-centre-in-muswell-hill-3830566/

[Livia]

Well we shall wait and see what the investigators have to say shall we?

When I wrote my posts I was referring to the article in the OP. The one you said it would help if people read properly. Nowhere in that article did it say the EDL was responsible nor was there any actual evidence that the fire was started deliberately. Yet everyone immediately jumped on the bandwaggon as usual. Once there is evidence it's a different matter, and it appears that now there is actual evidence and it is not longer just a story about a fire.

It saddens me that odious crimes and racism are made so much more unpleasant by people assuming. It's a dangerous thing to do.

[lime]

If you want to talk about narrow-mindedness, there are a fair few narrow minded people in the Muslim community. Those who want to bring Sharia Law here for instance, who keep their women at home pregnant, barefoot and speaking their native language, who hate the British way of life... if I was a Muslim, I would want to distance myself from those people, and clearly many decent Muslims want to do that.

I find it slightly offensive that you're calling for anyone but terrorist scum to be exterminated, frankly.

Livia, Jack never said he wanted anyone but terrorist scum to be exterminated so hope your less offended now.

On topic I think its saddening to see peoples places of worship burnt to the ground ,so glad nobody was hurt.

[Kizzy]

When I wrote my posts I was referring to the article in the OP. The one you said it would help if people read properly. Nowhere in that article did it say the EDL was responsible nor was there any actual evidence that the fire was started deliberately. Yet everyone immediately jumped on the bandwaggon as usual. Once there is evidence it's a different matter, and it appears that now there is actual evidence and it is not longer just a story about a fire.

It saddens me that odious crimes and racism are made so much more unpleasant by people assuming. It's a dangerous thing to do.

When I commented I had already read an article and could comment with some confidence on the outline of the facts here.

[MTVN]

I keep saying that Muslim leaders need to be far more vocal in their response to the Woolwich murder. Not just condemning the act but using the incident to shock the mainstream Muslim masses into finally coming out publicly and questioning the whole area of radicalisation amongst young muslim men.

To publicly state that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance not hatred war and murder. To my mind the Muslim majority in the UK must stand up and be counted as their comparative silence amongst some sections gives succour to some of these hate filled evil preaching Imams.

Non Muslims in the UK cannot continue to stand up alone and state that the Majority of Muslims in the UK are against the way their religion is twisted by extremism when the majority of Muslims in the UK stay silent.

I don't know where the assumption always comes from that Muslim groups don't condemn or stand against things like this, after every terror attack all major Islamic organisations are the first to condemn it and a lot of them do a lot of good work in trying to turn people away from radicalism

The other problem is that telling Muslims specifically that they are obligated to strongly condemn this implies that they are all somehow implicated and culpable for terror attacks, something that no one really expects of all catholics after an IRA shooting, or of protestants after a Loyalist killing

"the centre's leaders had told him they had seen freshly sprayed racist graffiti on the building and that they were concerned the fire was in reaction to the killing of a soldier in Woolwich."

There is hearsay that someone had seen some "racist grafitti" on the building, and no where does it say that the EDL was responsible. As usual there's a knee-jerk from people when we hear the word "Muslim". Articles like this add fuel to the fire - no pun intended. Once there is some evidence, then people can get all outraged.

Not a knee jerk reaction at all, by the time I had written my post the police had confirmed that EDL graffiti had been found. True enough it started as logical speculation, but that was speculation which has now been justified

[Nedusa]

I don't know where the assumption always comes from that Muslim groups don't condemn or stand against things like this, after every terror attack all major Islamic organisations are the first to condemn it and a lot of them do a lot of good work in trying to turn people away from radicalism

The other problem is that telling Muslims specifically that they are obligated to strongly condemn this implies that they are all somehow implicated and culpable for terror attacks, something that no one really expects of all catholics after an IRA shooting, or of protestants after a Loyalist killing



Not a knee jerk reaction at all, by the time I had written my post the police had confirmed that EDL graffiti had been found. True enough it started as logical speculation, but that was speculation which has now been justified

I agree with your comments that most Muslim organisations do condemn attacks like these, but I feel more could be done by Muslim organisations in the UK to teach young Muslims that Islam is a religion of peace and love. Correct interpretation of the Koran might help as it is a difficult book to correctly interpret if Arabic is not ones first language. Radical extremism is often given legality by mis-interpreting passages from the Koran to cite war, murder, Jihad etc... but speak to any normal Imam and he will tell you that the Koran does not allow evil acts of this kind.

Muslim communities in the UK need to really try and expose and eradicate these minority elements that teach the extremist views...!!!

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=MTVN;6037219]I don't know where the assumption always comes from that Muslim groups don't condemn or stand against things like this, after every terror attack all major Islamic organisations are the first to condemn it and a lot of them do a lot of good work in trying to turn people away from radicalism

The other problem is that telling Muslims specifically that they are obligated to strongly condemn this implies that they are all somehow implicated and culpable for terror attacks, something that no one really expects of all catholics after an IRA shooting, or of protestants after a Loyalist killing

He isn't saying that... What he is saying is there is more that could be done.
Everyone in the UK is obligated to stop this, by asking communities for help you are not implicating them....
How else are we to find a solution, we have to have intelligence from somewhere to get a handle on where and what or who the threat is?
It's not unacceptable to want everyone involved in counter terrorism.