Ed Snowden is Now in Russia - America is Angry

[arista]

He was just live.
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/6/10/242221/default/v1/cegrab-20130610-173613-159-1-402x293.jpg
Today

He confirmed GW Bush collected loads of Info.

But this Obama President has used New Secret Laws
making everything far worse.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQBmi0hln5L_cb-sLge_kKMbiom5yIqOokVutXWLd2YcFv01DJ

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/6/9/242093/default/v1/cegrab-20130609-212104-295-1-626x352.jpg
This geek is hidden in Hong Kong, on the run
fearing he will be killed
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/6/9/242104/default/v1/the-guardian-100613-1-329x437.jpg

[arista]

New Recorded a hour ago

video on the right hand side of the screen

http://news.sky.com/story/1101774/hague-gchq-prism-snooping-claims-baseless



Secret Laws
last used in Nazi Germany
(I say that - not Alex Jones)

[Nedusa]

This "geek" is actually a very brave man. Perhaps a bit misguided but wants the people to know what is being done in their name. And is prepared to sacrifice his own personal safety to get this information into the public domain.

Hardly a "Geek" I would say....!!!!

[GypsyGoth]

This geek is hidden in Hong Kong, on the run

:laugh2:

[MTVN]

Assange must be getting very bored of just dossing about the Ecuador assembly

[arista]

This "geek" is actually a very brave man. Perhaps a bit misguided but wants the people to know what is being done in their name. And is prepared to sacrifice his own personal safety to get this information into the public domain.

Hardly a "Geek" I would say....!!!!


Yes Very Brave
but he is worried he will be killed
under USA orders.

[arista]

29 year old Ed Snowden
was in Hong Kong
the CIA have a building in Hong Kong
so they are hunting /tracking him.

Ed's best bet is go to Russia
they can stop CIA killing or catching him.


Many on USA News networks say he is a hero
but others want him returned to USA to answer questions
He left his Sexy Pole dancing lady in Hawaii

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/13/1371090796554/A-news-bulletin-on-a-Hong-008.jpg


Snowden revelations on NSA strain US-China relations,
says Beijing
State-run China Daily points to
countries' 'soured relationship' on cybersecurity
and suggests huge surveillance net is unjustified


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/snowden-revelations-nsa-china-relations


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/13/1371107804535/South-China-Morning-Post-008.jpg

[Shaun]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22979199

an interesting coincidence...

[lostalex]

Awww, poor Assange, he doesn't have any swedish women to rape in his little embassy.
It's pathetic watching him trying to get attention for himself on this new leaks story.

Sorry Julie! He didn't need Wikileaks to leak his story, he did it himself.

Julian Assange thinks all whistle blowers should go through him, he's so desperate for attention. Keep rotting in your little Ecuadorian prison, dumbass.

[arista]

This was just Reported on CNN America
and FoxNewsHD


Assange has a private plane ready to collect Ed
from Hong Kong then fly him to Iceland.

Better be fast
as America has now put papers in to get him (Ed) back to America

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10136386/Edward-Snowden-faces-Hong-Kong-arrest-after-US-spying-charges.html

"Hong Kong’s police commissioner, Andy Tsang,
indicated that the normal legal process would be
followed after the United States filed criminal charges
against Mr Snowden and requested his arrest."

[lostalex]

Why is Assange getting involved? The new leaks have nothing to do with him or wikileaks. typical Assange, trying to get his 15 minutes of fame.
**** off Assange, sit in your little ecuadorian house. Why is Assange trying to associate himself with Snowden? They have no connection at all, and frankly he's probably doing more harm than good by getting involved. **** up off Assange, no one cares about wikileaks, and stop trying to pretend that you are persecuted because of wikileaks. Assange is being sought for RAPE, not because of any leaks or whistle blowing.

Stop trying to equate your RAPE charges with genuine whistleblowers you ****ing narcisistic asshole.

but he doesn't care, he just wants to get his name in the papers again. what a ****ing loser.

[lostalex]

This was just Reported on CNN America
and FoxNewsHD


Assange has a private plane ready to collect Ed
from Hong Kong then fly him to Iceland.

Better be fast
as America has now put papers in to get him (Ed) back to America

Assange doesn't have anything, an icelandic man offered this plane 2 days ago, now julian assange is trying to pretend that wikileaks is involved. He just wants to try to get his name in the press again.

sorry julian, but edward snowden didn't need you.
Assange wants to try to get in on this, when he had NOTHING to do with it.

what a desperate little attention ***** assange is showing himself to be.

[lostalex]

Assange has just proven himself to be pathetic by trying to associate himself with Edward Snowden, when Edward Snowden had NOTHING to do with wikileaks. Assange is so ****ing desperate to get his name in the papers again.

[arista]

"Assange wants to try to get in on this, when he had NOTHING to do with it."


I agree
Ed is bigger than Wikileaks in a bigger way
its Iceland that does not send people back to America
So Assange wants him safe well away from America Jail.

Meanwhile
in Hong Kong
before they hand him over thay will copy all his files
for China.




The only fast way to stop this is a Drone
but then loads would die in the same building
and China would get angry

[arista]

"Assange doesn't have anything, an icelandic man offered this plane 2 days ago"



Yes Correct
but its Assange that got it going
and taking credit if he gets saved by this iceland mans
Private plane.

[lostalex]

there is no connection between edward snowden and julian assange, and frankly assange is not doing edward any favors by TRYING to associate himself.

Assange is being selfish as usual. nothing surprising there.

if Assange really cared about Snowden then he would know that he shouldn't be trying to connect himself at all. Obviously Assange only cares about his own publicity though.

[arista]

"Snowden spy row grows as US is accused of hacking China
Whistleblower charged with espionage reportedly claims US
authorities accessed millions of private text messages in China"

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pixies/2013/6/22/1371922665835/Edward-Snowden-on-a-banne-008.jpg

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/edward-snowden-us-china


Looks like H.K./China has good reason
to take its time on sending him back to America

[arista]

New Reports he has left Hong Kong
for Russia.
(Ref: the China Paper that has contact with him , SkyNewsHD)

Clever move.


"Edward Snowden leaves Hong Kong for Moscow
NSA whistleblower left on Aeroflot flight to Moscow,
Hong Kong government confirms,
two days after US charged him with espionage"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/23/1371976459556/Edward-Snowden-supporters-010.jpg

[GypsyGoth]

I don't see why Edward Snowden bothered. His big reveals are that spy organisations are spying, doesn't everyone know that already :shrug:

And isn't it much better to have groups like the CIA intercepting messages and foiling and arresting these lunatics. However since it's not clear who the lunatics are, everyone has to be looked at. I feel much more secure knowing that this is happening.

[GiRTh]

This "geek" is actually a very brave man. Perhaps a bit misguided but wants the people to know what is being done in their name. And is prepared to sacrifice his own personal safety to get this information into the public domain.

Hardly a "Geek" I would say....!!!!This.

Its the extent to which they're spying that surprises most people. People in the US are very twitchy say, if a well known congressman chats to a stripper on the phone who voted for him or a celeb calls a friend who we find out is a well known drug dealer, this will be leaked to the press and they will make up their own stories. I think we can all see that happening.

I think Snowden is very brave to have done this and his revelations show us that he probably cant hide in any country in the world.

[arista]

I don't see why Edward Snowden bothered. His big reveals are that spy organisations are spying, doesn't everyone know that already :shrug:

And isn't it much better to have groups like the CIA intercepting messages and foiling and arresting these lunatics. However since it's not clear who the lunatics are, everyone has to be looked at. I feel much more secure knowing that this is happening.



His info damages America
They want him Locked away or better Dead.


The Latest he has put out, yesterday,
Proves the USA President is Corrupt.


You may think you are secure
but it can change at any time
like that Gory Murder in London
of the Young Army Man in a Street

[billy123]

His info damages America
They want him Locked away or better Dead.


The Latest he has put out, yesterday,
Proves the USA President is Corrupt.


You may think you are secure
but it can change at any time
like that Gory Murder in London
of the Young Army Man in a StreetGood luck to him they will be wanting to lock him away out of sight of the media.
I hope he escapes the oppressive regime of America.

Reports on the BBC say he was met by diplomatic cars from the Venezuelan or Ecuadorean embassy when he landed in Russia both countrys that could help him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23021767

And good on Hong Kong for ripping up Americas extradition request and declaring it unlawful.

[arista]

Good luck to him they will be wanting to lock him away out of sight of the media.
I hope he escapes the oppressive regime of America.

Reports on the BBC say he was met by diplomatic cars from the Venezuelan or Ecuadorean embassy when he landed in Russia both countrys that could help him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23021767


Yes could also be loads of False reports to Confuse USA
who want to catch him.

Yes good luck to him

The plane has just arrived in Moscow
I hope he gets keeps away from any USA Agents

[arista]

"On the run and holed up in a $15-an-hour capsule
hotel: NSA leaker Ed Snowden books in to budget room
in Moscow as he asks Ecuador for asylum
after fleeing Hong Kong to Russia"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346765/Edward-Snowden-Whistleblower-left-Hong-Kong-Russia-help-Wikileaks-day-US-charges-spying.html#ixzz2X596xCeI


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/23/article-2346765-1A785619000005DC-891_634x422.jpg
"Sympathetic: Ecuador Ambassador to
Russia Patrizio Alberto Chavez Savala,
pictured left with Vladimir Putin, was waiting for Snowden in Moscow"

[Livia]

I'm sure that everyone who thinks he's a hero would think otherwise once their own security is threatened.

[joeysteele]

Yes could also be loads of False reports to Confuse USA
who want to catch him.

Yes good luck to him

The plane has just arrived in Moscow
I hope he gets keeps away from any USA Agents

Good luck to him for me too.
I have a mixed view overall but I hope he gets asylum.

[arista]

Good luck to him for me too.
I have a mixed view overall but I hope he gets asylum.


Assange just said he knows
Ed Snowden is a Whistleblower not a traitor.
He also claims he knows where he is.


Another strange report is Russia
is considering to send him to America?
Ref:SkyNewsHD


I hope he is in transit
away from any American control

[Nedusa]

We need more Whistleblowers like this man to let the ordinary man in the street know what is being practised "in their name". There seems to be little or no accountibility anymore with Govt agencies running roughshod over the rights and privacies of millions of people. With almost constant surveillance by CCTV and Satellite and all our calls,texts,E-mails monitored it is no better than living in a police state. It is like the novel 1984 with Big Brother watching everything everybody does.

We are sliding into a fascist Police state but call it Democracy... why worry if you have nothing to hide ?? Yes I've heard that said a few times but once on the slippery slope we become the new targets. the people who speak out about freedom and justice become labelled as "terrorists" and are arrested and detained without charge or reason.

So Yes I commend Whistleblowers like Ed Snowden he is a patriot NOT a traitor and I hope more people in similar positions let the masses know what is being done in their name.

[arista]

He is in The Airport
and Putin said he is free to leave


Feck The American CIA

http://news.sky.com/story/1107989/snowden-wont-be-extradited-from-russia

[Roy Mars III]

he's no hero, hopefully he is caught soon

[Me. I Am Salman]

Hero

[Roy Mars III]

he would be a hero is he exposed it and stayed in America, he ran like a coward

[arista]

Reports Venezuela
has agreed to take him.

Better take a route well away from USA airspace
and send a dummy run first to see if its shot down.


ref: SkyNewsHD , France24, CNN , FoxNewsHD,
BBC and EuroNews

[GiRTh]

he would be a hero is he exposed it and stayed in America, he ran like a coward He ran to stay out of jail. They were gonna try him and he was almost certainly gonna be found guilty.

[letmein]

It's seriously hilarious how arista posts and posts and posts about stuff he knows nothing about. LMFAO!!! Keep it up, babe!

[letmein]

Assange just said he knows
Ed Snowden is a Whistleblower not a traitor.


He is a traitor, and he will be tried as such. United States citizens want him strung up. He's an attention *****, and he knows he's running out time.

[arista]

Still in Moscow Airport Transit Zone
he is due to meet Human Rights Legal teams

Ref:SkyNewsHD

[Nedusa]

If your elected Government allowed its security agencies to massively exceed their brief and resort to tactics there were immoral, unethical and borderline criminal then wouldn't you want to know about it.

All Govt agencies have to be accountable and all Govts have to be accountable to the people who elect them. They do our work we control them, WE the people that is the basis of democracy.

So if the NSA or the CIA engage in clandestine nefarious activities that affect the lives of millions of people then we NEED to know about it, otherwise we start going down the road of Secret Govt, Fascist/Police state.

So No Edward Snowden is NOT a traitor he is a very brave man who put his own personal freedom and the safety of himself and possibly his family at risk for the greater good.

I hope he finds asylum and can eventually live a reasonably normal life.

[billy123]

He has exposed yet another international crime of one of the most oppressive regimes in the world he had to run they will hound him to his death or make him vanish into one of their illegal confinement units uncharged and stripped of human rights of course he has to run.
The sheeple will say otherwise of course.

Good luck to him.

Its frightening how far gone a lot of people are that they dont even believe in freedom of information i pity them.

[GypsyGoth]

I think Snowden's a criminal. He should stand trial in the US.

[billy123]

I think Snowden's a criminal. He should stand trial in the US.Why what crime has he committed?
He may have broken the equivalent of the the data protection directive which involves a fine.
So why do they want to kill him/torture him/lock him up forever?

Do you have the same opinion when north korea lock up/kill/torture their own citizens for daring to criticize or question their leaders?

[GypsyGoth]

Why what crime has he committed?

He revealed methods used by an organisation entrusted with protecting his former country the US. So he gave info that would help prevent terrorists from being caught.

Just because it's some secret spy organisation doesn't make it an evil entity. The powers they have to look into peoples lives is a tool they need to get the job done.

And where is he hiding out, a country that promotes freedom and democracy? No he's in Russia, one of the enemies of both those ideals.

[billy123]

He revealed methods used by an organisation entrusted with protecting his former country the US. So he gave info that would help prevent terrorists from being caught.

Just because it's some secret spy organisation doesn't make it an evil entity. The powers they have to look into peoples lives is a tool they need to get the job done.

And where is he hiding out, a country that promotes freedom and democracy? No he's in Russia, one of the enemies of both those ideals.Yes he seems to have found a country that seems willing to protect his human rights a hell of a lot more than the U.S. will its no suprise.
Imagine being hounded to death for breaking the freedom of information act that is the equivalent of what is happening to this man and to many others in his situation.
They are an oppressive regime to be feared.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
Thomas Jefferson

[GypsyGoth]

Yes

Yes what?

You agree with me, that Snowden is a criminal. Or are you trying to be patronising?

[GypsyGoth]

Yes he seems to have found a country that seems willing to protect his human rights a hell of a lot more than the U.S. will its no suprise.

Right, so he's staying with a country that is the traditional enemy of his former country. Maybe that should give him a clue as to who his actions have actually helped.

He's made it more difficult for terrorist plots to be uncovered, how is that helping the everyday person?

I'm sure everyone in the tinfoil hats thinks of him as some type of hero.

[GypsyGoth]

Yes he seems to have found a country that seems willing to protect his human rights a hell of a lot more than the U.S. will its no suprise.
Imagine being hounded to death for breaking the freedom of information act that is the equivalent of what is happening to this man and to many others in his situation.

But it wasn't his place to pull back the curtain and let it be know to regular people how they're being spied on. People panic and act stupid, I'd much rather trust an organisation like the CIA.

What's the alternative? To have the CIA apply for a warrant from a judge any time they want to spy on someone in the world, how does that help protect people?

And what about the rights of the people he's endangered? Or do his human rights come before them?

Maybe if he didn't like his country, he should have renounced his citizenship and defected to russia. From what I can see, he hasn't benefited the world, in fact he's made it a more unsafe place with his revelations.

[billy123]

Right, so he's staying with a country that is the traditional enemy of his former country. Maybe that should give him a clue as to who his actions have actually helped.

He's made it more difficult for terrorist plots to be uncovered, how is that helping the everyday person?

I'm sure everyone in the tinfoil hats thinks of him as some type of hero.Ok your mentions of tinfoils hats and accusations of being patronising in your last two posts are enough.
I have my opinions and you have yours that wont change.(i havent resorted to trying to belittle yours)
Peace miss gypsy.
:xyxwave:

[GypsyGoth]

Why what crime has he committed?
He may have broken the equivalent of the the data protection directive which involves a fine.
So why do they want to kill him/torture him/lock him up forever?

Do you have the same opinion when north korea lock up/kill/torture their own citizens for daring to criticize or question their leaders?

North Korea is the type of place that would welcome Snowden, he'd be a hero to them. So no I don't agree with places like that.

And if Snowden is innocent and has committed no crime, it'll come out in his trial, but since he's running and hiding from the US. He must know that he's done serious harm to them, it's a lot more serious than breaking some data protection act with his employer.

[arista]

He revealed methods used by an organisation entrusted with protecting his former country the US. So he gave info that would help prevent terrorists from being caught.

Just because it's some secret spy organisation doesn't make it an evil entity. The powers they have to look into peoples lives is a tool they need to get the job done.

And where is he hiding out, a country that promotes freedom and democracy? No he's in Russia, one of the enemies of both those ideals.


Sure No worse than the President Murdering Millions
with Drones that kill children near the targets

[GypsyGoth]

Ok your mentions of tinfoils hats and accusations of being patronising in your last two posts are enough.
I have my opinions and you have yours that wont change.(i havent resorted to trying to belittle yours)
Peace miss gypsy.
:xyxwave:

What about this?


The sheeple will say otherwise of course.


It seemed to me that you were calling people sheep who didn't agree with your point of view.

[GypsyGoth]

Sure No worse than the President Murdering Millions
with Drones that kill children near the targets

But I think that's a different issue, so just because that happens, it doesn't make it ok for their spying methods to be revealed.

If the american people have issue with the drone strikes, they should protest against them and not vote for Obamas party next time.

[Jesus.]

Whistle blowers have always played an important role in attempting to curb the overreaching powers of government. Benjamin Franklin said “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” I think that sums it up quite nicely.

Until governments do everything in their powers to care for every single person in the country, then spying on citizens to prevent a terrorist attack every 10-15 years is seriously misguided.

More people die of hunger each year, than are at any kind of risk from a terror attack. It's a completely irrational reaction.

[arista]

But I think that's a different issue, so just because that happens, it doesn't make it ok for their spying methods to be revealed.

If the american people have issue with the drone strikes, they should protest against them and not vote for Obamas party next time.


They Do Protest In America , South America
and the World.



Its his last term in power
He can kill who he wants now


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

Look at this Microsoft giving People Private Data to the NSA in America.

Fecking Poxy Bill Gates.

[billy123]

But I think that's a different issue, so just because that happens, it doesn't make it ok for their spying methods to be revealed.

If the american people have issue with the drone strikes, they should protest against them and not vote for Obamas party next time.But their spying methods are against the law they have no right to be doing that. They are hounding a man because he exposed the fact they were breaking international law.
What they have done is not ok nor would a change of president change what they do.

They are murdering and torturing people on a huge scale Mr Snowden isnt.
Which is the lesser of the evils?
damn it i replied again.

[arista]

{files provided by Edward Snowden illustrate
the scale of co-operation between Silicon Valley
and the intelligence agencies over the last three years.
They also shed new light on the workings of
the top-secret Prism program,
which was disclosed by the Guardian and the Washington Post last month.}

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

[billy123]

It drives me up the ****ing wall when people try to justify the invasion of privacy and the basic human rights of a person in the name of the imaginary war on terror.

[arista]

It drives me up the ****ing wall when people try to justify the invasion of privacy and the basic human rights of a person in the name of the imaginary war on terror.



Yes The War is America making it with Drone
Attacks all over the World.

[billy123]

Yes The War is America making it with Drone
Attacks all over the World.The definition of terror:
Violence committed or threatened by a group to intimidate or coerce a population, as for military or political purposes.

Thats what drone attacks do.
The US need to stop and the UK need to get their tongue out of their arses.

[GypsyGoth]

Whistle blowers have always played an important role in attempting to curb the overreaching powers of government. Benjamin Franklin said “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” I think that sums it up quite nicely.

Until governments do everything in their powers to care for every single person in the country, then spying on citizens to prevent a terrorist attack every 10-15 years is seriously misguided.

More people die of hunger each year, than are at any kind of risk from a terror attack. It's a completely irrational reaction.

I'm not against whistle blowers. I agree they play an important role. And I think the government's interest is it's own survival and not the care of every citizen. But I do think in most cases they try to do the most good.

And the fact people are dying of hunger when other countries have more than enough is a sign that the system is far from perfect. But it's the only one we have. And hungry people can't eat Snowden's interviews.

Maybe I'm not understanding sometime but I wasn't at all shocked by the stuff Snowden came out with, I expected that type of stuff to be going on. Maybe I'm missing something with story :shrug:

They Do Protest In America , South America
and the World.



Its his last term in power
He can kill who he wants now


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

Look at this Microsoft giving People Private Data to the NSA in America.

Fecking Poxy Bill Gates.

I'm not surprised though, companies give our info to whoever pays them. And I guess if you're a government you could try get it off them for free.

But their spying methods are against the law they have no right to be doing that. They are hounding a man because he exposed the fact they were breaking international law.
What they have done is not ok nor would a change of president change what they do.

They are murdering and torturing people on a huge scale Mr Snowden isnt.
Which is the lesser of the evils?
damn it i replied again.

But I disagree that their spying methods are against the law. The spy organisation is operating on the front line, the law hasn't caught up with the internet yet.

And I don't see it as a choice to agree with torture or agree with thinking what Snowden did was right.

I don't see the CIA as an evil organisation, and I don't see the American government as such either. But I do see what Snowden did as something that could have harmed his own country.

[GypsyGoth]

It drives me up the ****ing wall when people try to justify the invasion of privacy and the basic human rights of a person in the name of the imaginary war on terror.

But what's the alternative. Don't monitor what people are doing on the net?

[billy123]

But what's the alternative. Don't monitor what people are doing on the net?They cant treat people like terrorists just to catch the tiny tiny few that are.

Trillions are spent on "The war on terror" despite the facts.


– You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack

– You are 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack

— You are 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane

— You are 1048 times more likely to die from a car accident than from a terrorist attack

–You are 404 times more likely to die in a fall than from a terrorist attack

— You are 87 times more likely to drown than die in a terrorist attack

– You are 13 times more likely to die in a railway accident than from a terrorist attack

–You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack

–You are 9 times more likely to choke to death on your own vomit than die in a terrorist attack

–You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist

–You are 8 times more likely to die from accidental electrocution than from a terrorist attack

– You are 6 times more likely to die from hot weather than from a terrorist attack

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/04/calm-down-you-are-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-mundane-things-than-terrorism/

Imagine if that money was spent on the top two of that list.

[Jesus.]

I'm not against whistle blowers. I agree they play an important role. And I think the government's interest is it's own survival and not the care of every citizen. But I do think in most cases they try to do the most good.

And the fact people are dying of hunger when other countries have more than enough is a sign that the system is far from perfect. But it's the only one we have. And hungry people can't eat Snowden's interviews.

Maybe I'm not understanding sometime but I wasn't at all shocked by the stuff Snowden came out with, I expected that type of stuff to be going on. Maybe I'm missing something with story :shrug:


You're not misunderstanding anything at all, you just have a different perspective on the situation, and to be honest, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We just view things differently.

I personally, would not swap freedom for security, but I only have words because whether we like it or not, that's exactly the system that we all live by. We're all being spied on regardless of how we feel about it, and the fact you weren't shocked by it, just shows exactly where civilisation is today..

I really love the ideals of democracy set out by the founders (barring the odd slave or two, but whatchagonnadoo?), but the America that exists today, is about as far away from that ideal as you could get.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is constantly being affronted by the government, and the government in place at the moment is about as liberal as it gets (they really aren't liberal, but in fact at best a centrist/centre right government).

When governments have powers to do what they like, then that's far more dangerous to the long term well being of the population, than a couple of planes being flown into buildings once in a while.

The dangers we all face by terrorism are minuscule compared to the massive over reach that has taken place ever since. There is no right or wrong on this issue, you've just reached a different conclusion from the same information.

Dying as a free man just seems so much more appealing to me, than living in the materialisation of 1984.

[GypsyGoth]

They cant treat people like terrorists just to catch the tiny tiny few that are.

Trillions are spent on "The war on terror" despite the facts.


– You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack

– You are 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack

— You are 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane

— You are 1048 times more likely to die from a car accident than from a terrorist attack

–You are 404 times more likely to die in a fall than from a terrorist attack

— You are 87 times more likely to drown than die in a terrorist attack

– You are 13 times more likely to die in a railway accident than from a terrorist attack

–You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack

–You are 9 times more likely to choke to death on your own vomit than die in a terrorist attack

–You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist

–You are 8 times more likely to die from accidental electrocution than from a terrorist attack

– You are 6 times more likely to die from hot weather than from a terrorist attack

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/04/calm-down-you-are-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-mundane-things-than-terrorism/

Imagine if that money was spent on the top two of that list.



But spying on a person is different from treating them like a terrorist.

I don't think if american stopped spending money on defence that it would go into fighting illness. The US is not some altruistic country, it's a business.

[billy123]

But spying on a person is different from treating them like a terrorist.

I don't think if american stopped spending money on defence that it would go into fighting illness. The US is not some altruistic country, it's a business.
Then what is wrong in a citizen spying on its elected goverment if its ok for an elected goverment to spy on its citizens?

Nobody suggested the money would be spent on those things.

I feel sad that we have reached a point where people dont object to their rights being infringed.

Jesus has a way of putting it far more politely than i can.

[GypsyGoth]

You're not misunderstanding anything at all, you just have a different perspective on the situation, and to be honest, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We just view things differently.

I personally, would not swap freedom for security, but I only have words because whether we like it or not, that's exactly the system that we all live by. We're all being spied on regardless of how we feel about it, and the fact you weren't shocked by it, just shows exactly where civilisation is today..

I really love the ideals of democracy set out by the founders (barring the odd slave or two, but whatchagonnadoo?), but the America that exists today, is about as far away from that ideal as you could get.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is constantly being affronted by the government, and the government in place at the moment is about as liberal as it gets (they really aren't liberal, but in fact at best a centrist/centre right government).

When governments have powers to do what they like, then that's far more dangerous to the long term well being of the population, than a couple of planes being flown into buildings once in a while.

The dangers we all face by terrorism are minuscule compared to the massive over reach that has taken place ever since. There is no right or wrong on this issue, you've just reached a different conclusion from the same information.

Dying as a free man just seems so much more appealing to me, than living in the materialisation of 1984.

I think it was on QI that they mentioned that one of the reasons america was competitive in manufacturing was because of the fact that prisoners there are used as slave labour. So I think the place exists at a cost, I'm not naive, the reality of the country is that's unforgiving and it's paranoid, but it also creates a lot of beauty.

But yea I don't see another way for their government to act other than to spy on people. If they don't plan for and prepare against worst case scenarios, I think the country would be overrun by crazy fundamentalists. It could be that the reasons we are so much less likely to die from them, is because the amount being spent is working.

[GypsyGoth]

Then what is wrong in a citizen spying on its elected goverment if its ok for an elected goverment to spy on its citizens?

Nobody suggested the money would be spent on those things.

I feel sad that we have reached a point where people dont object to their rights being infringed.

Jesus has a way of putting it far more politely than i can.

But what rights are being infringed? If an organisation can sift through all the online info and then figure out who is against their country, what is so wrong with that?

And I've no objection with people monitoring the activities of government. But a government wouldn't be able to function if everything they had to do was cleared by some court. I think it's a necessity that they're able to go above the law if need be.

[Novo]

Comrades :joker:

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/NY_NYP-572x620.jpg

[Jesus.]

I think it was on QI that they mentioned that one of the reasons america was competitive in manufacturing was because of the fact that prisoners there are used as slave labour. So I think the place exists at a cost, I'm not naive, the reality of the country is that's unforgiving and it's paranoid, but it also creates a lot of beauty.

But yea I don't see another way for their government to act other than to spy on people. If they don't plan for and prepare against worst case scenarios, I think the country would be overrun by crazy fundamentalists. It could be that the reasons we are so much less likely to die from them, is because the amount being spent is working.

Well those prisons are run by private corporations, not the state, which means they have shareholders and lobbyists. That's why they are the country that imprisons more of it's own citizens than nearly any other country on earth. Prisons are big business, which in itself is a pretty disgusting thing in my opinion. There is one state that has a 3 strikes and you're out rule, which means if you are convicted of any number of offences 3 times, you'll get a mandatory life sentence. Possession of marijuana 3 times equals a life sentence. Yet the prisons have lobbyists paying money to people in government to prevent these laws from being changed. The system is rigged massively.

America spends more on defence than the next 13 countries below them. Combined. Besides, the Bush government knew all about OBL's plot, they just didn't take it seriously enough. That was without all the currently fashionable spying and wiretapping. You can still defend the country, just without having to watch every individual in order to do so.

[Nedusa]

"The owners of this country know the truth: It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin.

[GypsyGoth]

Well those prisons are run by private corporations, not the state, which means they have shareholders and lobbyists. That's why they are the country that imprisons more of it's own citizens than nearly any other country on earth. Prisons are big business, which in itself is a pretty disgusting thing in my opinion. There is one state that has a 3 strikes and you're out rule, which means if you are convicted of any number of offences 3 times, you'll get a mandatory life sentence. Possession of marijuana 3 times equals a life sentence. Yet the prisons have lobbyists paying money to people in government to prevent these laws from being changed. The system is rigged massively.

America spends more on defence than the next 13 countries below them. Combined. Besides, the Bush government knew all about OBL's plot, they just didn't take it seriously enough. That was without all the currently fashionable spying and wiretapping. You can still defend the country, just without having to watch every individual in order to do so.

I agree that the system is rigged against people who chose to not live by the society's laws. edit: I guess a flaw might be the way an organisation who's main interest is profit and punishment is in control.

And I think America underestimated how radical and insane these people who hate them are. I don't think America will make the same mistake again.

"The owners of this country know the truth: It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin.

That's the thing this Snowden guy must have been dreaming. He seemed to not realise what his own country was up to, maybe he believed in some dreamland america. And he went and joined two spy organisations and was shocked to find out that they spied on people :shrug:

[arista]

SkyNewHD Live

Ed is asking Russia for Temp. Stay Visa
until he can get to South America in a safe way.
He fears American CIA will Kill him.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/7/12/247999/default/v2/snowden-1-942x530.jpg

[arista]

Snowden 'Allowed To Leave Moscow Airport'


http://news.sky.com/story/1119814/snowden-allowed-to-leave-moscow-airport


Meaning he can move from the Airport
into Russia
while 3 months paper works could be worked out

[arista]

He has left the airport
around 90mins ago.

Wikileaks Org are helping him go to a Secret Location
in Russia.

Ref : FoxNewsHD, SkyNewsHD , BBC, CNN

[Z]

I'm convinced he'll end up being assassinated quietly many years down the line when he thinks the heat has been called off on him. The best way for him to ensure his own security is to keep his name in the media. The USA are not just going to let the matter drop.

[arista]

I'm convinced he'll end up being assassinated quietly many years down the line when he thinks the heat has been called off on him. The best way for him to ensure his own security is to keep his name in the media. The USA are not just going to let the matter drop.

Not While in Russia
that would look wrong.


As for many years ahead
depends the nation he is in,
and if its a Secret Building he is in
maybe never.

[CaudleHalbard]

An unfortunate and inexplicable car accident - as happened recently to a journalist who was getting a bit closer to the truth than the US security services liked.

That may be Snowden's ultimate fate...........

[Z]

Not While in Russia
that would look wrong.


As for many years ahead
depends the nation he is in,
and if its a Secret Building he is in
maybe never.

Didn't stop Alexander Litvinenko being mysteriously murdered. If they want to do it, they'll get away with it - there will come a point when Russia will want or need something that the USA can provide and the death of Edward Snowden will be part of a trade between them, I'm convinced of it. The USA prides itself on always getting their man - Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden being two particularly high profile examples in recent years. Perhaps he won't be assassinated but they will capture him eventually...

[arista]

Didn't stop Alexander Litvinenko being mysteriously murdered. If they want to do it, they'll get away with it - there will come a point when Russia will want or need something that the USA can provide and the death of Edward Snowden will be part of a trade between them, I'm convinced of it. The USA prides itself on always getting their man - Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden being two particularly high profile examples in recent years. Perhaps he won't be assassinated but they will capture him eventually...



Yes but that was KGB Sub Contractors

Russia was on the Files that Snowden put in public
so he is a Top man to them.
Russia now has that on USA as tracking Russian Business
and it had no right to.


The USA President called him a Hacker
he is not going after him.
The Next President may be on Snowdens side

[Ninastar]

I'm sure that everyone who thinks he's a hero would think otherwise once their own security is threatened.

yeah why the hell are people thinking he's great? i swear some people don't realise what he has leaked... he's a stupid **** and deserves everything that's coming to him, the coward.

[arista]

An unfortunate and inexplicable car accident - as happened recently to a journalist who was getting a bit closer to the truth than the US security services liked.

That may be Snowden's ultimate fate...........


Yes perfect for a Spy Film


He will not need to leave his grounds
which is not tracked.


He has the Wikileaks Org
helping his every move

[arista]

yeah why the hell are people thinking he's great? i swear some people don't realise what he has leaked... he's a stupid **** and deserves everything that's coming to him, the coward.


No he is a great man
and gave up his lady and whole USA Life
to help The UK, Russia , Europe and South Americas
with Illegal USA Tracking going Public Worldwide

[Ninastar]

He leaked military files which contain info regarding saftey, terrorism and much more... What he did was not great at all.

[arista]

He leaked military files which contain info regarding saftey, terrorism and much more... What he did was not great at all.

But the USA president calls him a Hacker.

He leaked far more important Files about Russia and the UK.


Fecking Americans
Spying on Private people - Illegal

[Z]

Yes but that was KGB Sub Contractors

Russia was on the Files that Snowden put in public
so he is a Top man to them.
Russia now has that on USA as tracking Russian Business
and it had no right to.


The USA President called him a Hacker
he is not going after him.
The Next President may be on Snowdens side

Russia had a spy ring in the USA that was deported not that long ago, names like Vicky Pelaez mean anything to you? They're both at it and I'm sure they both spy on plenty of other countries. "KGB sub-contractors" yeah sure...

They aren't officially going to do it and however it's done it will be done on the quiet and it will probably never be possible to trace it back to them but either they are going to extradite him or they are going to have him taken care of. Depends on whether or not he'll make good on his threat to leak more info about the US government and whether or not he'd be termed a security risk. The US does drone strikes on terrorist training camps; there is nothing stopping them from acting first and answering questions later.