Is this fair?

[Z]

I took out a lot of summer reading for my dissertation (I'm at uni in Glasgow, I live up in the north east of Scotland when I'm not at uni) and took it home with me. The uni's website says you're not allowed to leave the country with library books but no mention of leaving the city with it so I figured that was fine. I checked them out of the library in June and got told I could have them until the middle of September, with receipts proving as much. Brilliant news - I then took out lots of other books because why not take advantage of how long I can have them for; and took them all home.

I got an email this morning from the library saying that someone else had requested one of the books and I had to return it by the end of July. Now, don't get me wrong, I have been on the other end of this, needing a book that someone's taken out of the library and not being able to access it for an important essay or some revision; but how is it fair that the library can tell me a date in September and then bring it forward by six weeks?! I am not making a 7 hour round trip at a weekend just to return a bloody library book; they don't have a postal return service and I am absolutely not paying a fine when they told me I could have it until September and have changed their minds all of a sudden. They shouldn't let people have extended summer loans if they're going to issue "no you must return this now" notices at the drop of a hat. So I've emailed the library in a bit of a rage asking for some advice on what to do because I think it was just an automated message but it's so bloody annoying - because there's no guarantee this is going to be the only one. Even if I go down before the end of July to return this, there's every chance the same day someone's going to request another book that will have to be back in August. I'm not back at uni until September and I can't afford to take time off work just to go and take a book back, and I'm not spending £30 minimum on transport just to do that. Fuming!!

[Raph]

Yeah I understand your point Greg. Surely though, the other person can find a way of finding the book in some other library? Also, alternatively, if he desperately needed the book, he could pay the shipping fee? At least that way you wouldn't have to bother with the trip or the expenses. But I agree, it's unfair considering they said you were permitted to keep the book until September. The library can't just change expectations like that because who know's, for all they know, you might be using the book for a big project too.

[Z]

Yeah like I know I'm just mad because it's inconvenient to me; but the library really shouldn't say people can have books for an extended period of time if they're going to turn around and change the date like that. It'd be one thing if they said "a person has requested this book, can you please return it as soon as possible" but they've said in the email that I must return it by 30/7 or I will be fined. That's not fair in my opinion. Waiting for a reply...

[Roy Mars III]

isn't there a system were a library can request a book from another library and the other library will send it to the library that requested it. I would think that the library could just do that. It is unfair for the library to say you can have a book for a certain amount of time and then just cut the time short because someone wants the book.

[billy123]

I it digitized at all? if so just download it from somewhere.
If not what are the fines it might be worth paying them to keep it.

[Z]

Not that I know of bobnot, though I just took out heaps of books because they were all related to what I want to write my dissertation about so I haven't looked into whether or not they've been digitised. Good suggestion though, I'll look that up when I get home

[Marc]

Just send a package in the mail, but have a dead hamster in it instead of the book.

That one always got me out of silly situations like this.

[Z]

:laugh: That'd teach them eh...

I'm so fuming. It'd be cheaper to just take the fine but I don't want to be fined! I shouldn't be fined!

[MTVN]

I would refuse to pay the fine or return it if you have the proof that you were issued it till September, could always just be a system error as well though

[Z]

I'm pretty certain I still have the receipts because I was so surprised they said September on them that I kept them inside the books; but my mum then moved all the books out of the boxes I'd packed them up in so I'm praying she hasn't thrown them out if the receipts have fallen out of the books.

[arista]

Poor Zee Being Picked On
Again

[Z]

Poor Zee Being Picked On
Again

It never ends arista :(

[Ellen]

If you find your receipts & they do state sept dont send the book back & dont pay the fine.
You need the book & the library should have a system in place of borrowing from another library if a book has been signed out.
Not your fault if the library has cocked up.

[Niamh.]

I'm sure if you explain the situation they'll be fine about it, especially if you're out of Glasgow now and they told you you could keep them till September. I'm sure the library staff don't care that much anyway :laugh:

[Josy]

They can't fine you if you have the receipt saying it's not to be returned until September.

[Z]

Got a reply from the library basically telling me to get lost and get it back to them ASAP. Utter bull****. Gonna have to try and read the book tonight and tomorrow; type up notes and then post it down. But this could happen 27 more times before I'm back at uni; I took 28 out of the library over summer! Ugh.

[Niamh.]

Got a reply from the library basically telling me to get lost and get it back to them ASAP. Utter bull****. Gonna have to try and read the book tonight and tomorrow; type up notes and then post it down. But this could happen 27 more times before I'm back at uni; I took 28 out of the library over summer! Ugh.

That's bad form out of them Zee

[Ellen]

Sorry but if you have the receipts that prove you can have them tell the library that they will have to pay for the postage & packing or you will bring them back in sept. End of.

[Niamh.]

Sorry but if you have the receipts that prove you can have them tell the library that they will have to pay for the postage & packing or you will bring them back in sept. End of.

Yeah, true

[Kizzy]

Delete the email pretend it never existed and enjoy your summer :D

[Z]

I am just about ready to quit uni in a rage.

So now not only do I have to send this library book back at my own expense via recorded delivery (am I **** taking chances with posting it in the regular Royal Mail service - they've lost important mail of mine before) but I emailed the languages secretary about my courses next year and she's informed me that I've been placed on a course I didn't want to do because of the way I chose courses last year! I'll try and explain...

Academic year 2012/13 under the German half of my degree I had to pick two options courses
Academic year 2013/14 under the German half of my degree I have to pick one option course

So that makes three option courses in total over the two years. Two of these have to be German-specific courses. There are three German lecturers, so there are only three German courses on offer each year. Last year the options were Weimar poetry (lecturer 1), Faust (lecturer 2) and Vampires (lecturer 3) - I chose Faust and Vampires last year, so that this year I could pick anything I wanted (e.g. I wanted to study beginners Russian this year because it ties in nicely with my dissertation)

I've since been informed that the Vampires course didn't count as a German option because it's considered Comparative Literature and it was open to all Modern Languages students. All three of the German lecturers' courses were open to all Modern Languages students. The way it was explained to us was that if you picked two courses taught by your German lecturers, that would count as your two German options. They don't put on German specific courses because a small number of people study it and there are only three lecturers, so of course the options are broad and open to anyone.

So now I've been placed on the German Film course, run by the same lecturer who ran the Vampires course. I'm so pissed off. I'm sure I'd enjoy the German Film course and I really like that lecturer, but I was really looking forward to studying Russian and as per usual, stupid uni bureaucracy decided by someone who likes stupid rules is telling me that no, I must study a German option this year, despite studying two bloody German options last year! ARGH!

[Jake.]

Ah Zee! :( about the first bit, that's crazy how they can just demand it back.. you'd think it's follow a 'first come, first served' system, so that's shocking that they're making you send it back to them... and that's even worse about your course, seems like you're being mucked about a bit to me

[Z]

Like I get that it's library policy to have a recall system in place, I totally understand that and it's just unfortunate that this has occurred and ultimately it's my 'fault' for taking the books up to Aberdeen... but at the same time, they shouldn't give people lengthy summer loans if they're able to recall them with only a week's notice. I wouldn't have taken any books home if I'd had a regular loan period (usually 4-6 weeks I think) because I knew I was coming home, and I can't risk this happening another 27 times before I go back to uni! :(

As for the course... I know right? I emailed her back but she's not replied yet. She's really helpful at least and I'm gonna see if I can press it and get someone to say it's okay for me to study Russian because I don't see why this has to be such a big deal?!

[Jake.]

That system that they've decided to use is just awful, they can't just expect people to be making trips back to uni every two weeks to give back books for others. You was that concerned and dedicated with your courses that you got there quickly and got what you needed, why should you be punished?

And hopefully then she sorts something out for you Greg as it seems pretty pointless not letting you do your selected course

[Z]

She copied the Vampires lecturer in to her email reply which I only just noticed, should really have included her in my reply but I didn't realise... I mean I'm not going to be annoyed if I'm studying German Film but I really wanted to pick up Russian this year because it's such a useful language to know and I really enjoyed it when I studied it before :(

[Jake.]

Yeah, I get what you mean, it'll be more disappointing for you if you have to settle with film.. I hope that it gets sorted in some way or another for you

[Z]

It probably won't, and I'll die alone because of the useless degree I'll have had foisted upon me by stupid bureaucracy


also I'll die alone because I'm an awful human being, but that's another issue entirely

[Jake.]

:laugh2: haha, in no way are you an awful human being!

[Z]

Jake I clearly am, you don't get punished with a forehead like mine if you didn't at least mass murder a few hundred people in a previous life

[Jake.]

Jake I clearly am, you don't get punished with a forehead like mine if you didn't at least mass murder a few hundred people in a previous life

:joker: Brilliant, I have a big forehead as well so don't panic, we can murder people together or something

[Z]

You could probably write the entire Bible on my forehead

[Jake.]

You could probably write the entire Bible on my forehead

You can have the old, I'll have the new then

[Z]

Preach it sister

[Z]

That's me just received another automated email from the library asking for another book back by the 3rd of August, so they've not even given me a week's notice this time... ****ing fuming!!!

[Ammi]

..I've just read your OP, I missed this...no this doesn't seem fair but now that you have another email, I would turn this back on them and explain that because you were originally told you could have them until September, it's now going to cause you expense which you don't have, so you'll return them if they compensate your costs up front but that will be the only way that it's possible...they have to then respond to that, which will at least give you more time to take what you need and what you can from the books..I would also say that as you need them for your studies..(which is why you took them out..)..you need a date when they will return them to you because they have gone back on what you were originally told, so they have to arrange for you to have access to them, which suits your needs...

[Jake.]

That's me just received another automated email from the library asking for another book back by the 3rd of August, so they've not even given me a week's notice this time... ****ing fuming!!!

Wow, that's a right mick take Greg, I don't blame you fot being mad.. Urgh that's really awful

[Z]

Literally only posted the first one the other day! The woman said that I would have to cover the costs and she implored me to prioritise someone else getting access to the book and said that they could file a request for me to have them immediately afterwards, but I said there was no point because they're not prepared to pay any postage on my behalf so they're not going to send them up to Aberdeen for me so I just said I'd return all the other books on the 14th of August when I'm down to sit an exam I missed on the 15th... this could happen any number of times before the 14th of August, I'm so annoyed and there's nothing I can do about it. Gonna have to go home at lunch and get the book, take it to the post office and pay for recorded delivery once again... so angry!

[Ammi]

..awww, Zee..I'm really sorry, this is so unfair but honestly, I would refuse to do it unless they compensate you first because these costs are theirs and not yours and they know that, you have something in writing to say you can keep the books until September and there's nothing they can do about that but they're playing on your conscience to let someone else have them...if they want them, then they have to cover the costs for them or arrange for that other person to get them in another way....

EDIT:..if it was me, I wouldn't send them, I'd email them back and not be angry but put it all back on them to solve this because honestly, you can't afford this, it's completely unreasonable...

[jackc1806]

Greg that is so unfair! If you have been loaned it for summer you should be able to keep it until then. The library should order the book from another for the other guy or if they guy was so concerned he could buy it off eBay :idc:

[Z]

Yeah I might send them another email with this latest automated message and ask if they could compensate me for all this postage... because once was annoying but fair enough, but for all I know I could post this book today and then get another email tomorrow about another book... I wish I'd just never bothered now, knowing my luck the book I started reading first will be recalled next and even if I had taken just that one home I'd have had to send it back... so angry!

[Ellen]

Did you not find the receipts?

[Ammi]

Yeah I might send them another email with this latest automated message and ask if they could compensate me for all this postage... because once was annoying but fair enough, but for all I know I could post this book today and then get another email tomorrow about another book... I wish I'd just never bothered now, knowing my luck the book I started reading first will be recalled next and even if I had taken just that one home I'd have had to send it back... so angry!

..you see, that's the other reason why you should put this back on them Zee...this could just be an automated email where they haven't looked at what was agreed with you and you're going to this expense when it could all be a mistake with their system...

[Z]

Did you not find the receipts?

I have them safe at home but the lady who replied referred me to the University's policy regarding the recall of library books and unfortunately they have covered themselves - however I think it's unfair that I'm expected to pay for the postage. They still haven't received the first book despite me sending it days ago; so I've said in my latest email to them that I don't think this second book will even reach them in time and that would mean not only am I paying postage but I'd have to pay a fine too! Ridiculous!

[Ellen]

I have them safe at home but the lady who replied referred me to the University's policy regarding the recall of library books and unfortunately they have covered themselves - however I think it's unfair that I'm expected to pay for the postage. They still haven't received the first book despite me sending it days ago; so I've said in my latest email to them that I don't think this second book will even reach them in time and that would mean not only am I paying postage but I'd have to pay a fine too! Ridiculous!

Its a shame the uni library didnt point out the policy to you when you took them out for the summer, they must know that some travel back home for the summer break.
Hopefully you have a receipt for proof of postage on the books you have sent, it should show you posted them in plenty of time so i would refuse to pay any fine on them, not your fault if the post is slow.
I agree that if they want the books back they should pay for the postage and personally i would not post any more. There is no point if you have to pay for postage then get a fine! :mad:

[Z]

Its a shame the uni library didnt point out the policy to you when you took them out for the summer, they must know that some travel back home for the summer break.
Hopefully you have a receipt for proof of postage on the books you have sent, it should show you posted them in plenty of time so i would refuse to pay any fine on them, not your fault if the post is slow.
I agree that if they want the books back they should pay for the postage and personally i would not post any more. There is no point if you have to pay for postage then get a fine! :mad:

Yeah I'm gonna keep all the receipts together and scan them all and send them to the library if they insist on any more charges! So fuming!!

[DanaC]

That's pretty a pretty crappy deal, kid.

Couple of thoughts:

Firstly, however unfair this is, I would advise against withholding fines. Most universities (the one I study and teach at has this policy) withhold graduation from students who have ongoing library fines. Check your institutions's policies, at ours it is plastered all over the web portal come graduation season that all fines must be cleared before a student will be allowed to graduate.

Secondly, I would advise that you talk to to your personal tutor (I assume you have one?) and if it's a different person, I'd also suggest maybe contacting your dissertation tutor. Explain what has happened, and how it will impact on you. Explain that you understand the library policy, but nevertheless you feel you have been placed in an unfair and damaging position and that it is very demoralising. Ask them if there is anything they can suggest to sort this situation out in such a way as to avoid you having to spend your very small amount of student finance on additional cross-country trips or excessive library fines.


If they're worth their salt in terms of pastoral care they will attempt to help you resolve the situation in some way. Not saying they'll definitely succeed in that, but they should at least try. It's possible they may be able to get some kind of funding arranged for you to cover the cost of returning the books (depends on how your university runs things obviously)

It may also be possible to put some sort of block on return requests for the remaining books.

Try to avoid sounding angry or combative. Seek their advice and enlist their help. Don't try to suggest that you have been 'misled' by the September return date, as most university libraries put information on their borrowing practices, including the possibility of recalls quite prominently on their webpages and on notices in the library itself. Cop to the fact you were confused by the return date, and that this has put you in a very difficult position.

[Z]

Thanks for all the advice DanaC :hug: I've tried to be very polite in my correspondence with them so hopefully they'll concede on something to either reduce the costs or pay me back for the expense... I think the library fines rule applies at my university too with regards to graduation but if I am fined then I'd pay that back immediately in September when I return...

I just don't understand why they would allow "summer loans" if they're subject to the same recall rules as normal library books - considering that you can submit renewal requests on a normal loan so you could feasibly have a library book out for just as long as a summer loan during term time, providing no one else requests that book. I know that I would never have taken any books home with me if they were under a normal loan because I knew I was going home for over 2 months.