Do you believe you have lived a previous life?

[thesheriff443]

Well?

[GypsyGoth]

No.

[thesheriff443]

I do, I think I have lived many and been murdered.

[Kazanne]

I sometimes think so.

[mkdfan]

When bad stuff happens to me I think "I must have been a right bast in a previous life".
But not really, I used to be into the whole "past life", "ghosts", "psychics" thing but so many people are proven to be fakes that it put me off. Now I just think you live, you die. There is no heaven or hell just what we have now, so make the most of it.

[GypsyGoth]

But how come there was once a few thousand people on the planet after an ice age, and now there is 7 billion. Where have all the new conciousnesses come from? And if new conciousness are created with lives, what is the point in recycling them? It's not as if we are like spiders being born with the knowledge to make a web, we're born as pretty much blank slates.

[Kizzy]

It's so weird you say that as I think I did, Polish places look really familiar to me but I've never been.
The weirdest thing is my daughter and I were chatting about women who should go on the new tenner, I was convinced Marie Curie had been on a note... She has, in Poland :eek:

[thesheriff443]

But how come there was once a few thousand people on the planet after an ice age, and now there is 7 billion. Where have all the new conciousnesses come from? And if new conciousness are created with lives, what is the point in recycling them? It's not as if we are like spiders being born with the knowledge to make a web, we're born as pretty much blank slates.

I don't know all the answers:bawling:
I think the person that we grow into is already inside us!
hence we don't get to choose if we like boys or girls its just there.

[Redway]

Absolutely not.

[Kizzy]

But how come there was once a few thousand people on the planet after an ice age, and now there is 7 billion. Where have all the new conciousnesses come from? And if new conciousness are created with lives, what is the point in recycling them? It's not as if we are like spiders being born with the knowledge to make a web, we're born as pretty much blank slates.

I don't believe everyone is 'new' I believe we have to keep coming back until we 'get it'.... whatever 'it' is.
I don't like to dwell on the meaning of life too much, I'm scared that if I figure it out I'll drop dead... :joker:

[Verbal]

Yes and that I am being punished in this life for past transgressions. I was probably Hitler or something.

[Jesus.]

Really confuses me that our species has this desire to hang on to some childish notions of life, consciousness, and the "soul".

People who do this actually limit their window to the real beauty of existence. People can believe what they like but recycling existence over and again? How does it follow that people often have similar personality traits to their parents, who have similar personality traits to their parents, and back in a human regression?

How far back did this start happening? Do other apes also have this recycling personality thing going on? Is it all life, or are we humans really that special?

[joeysteele]

No, I have heard some strange things from people so although saying no for myself, I cannot prove it either way so have an open mind on things like this.

[Z]

I once read a really cool thing online, I think someone might have posted it on TiBB (for some reason I have Karl in my head??) about this man who dies and goes to heaven and is told that he must go back and live every life that was ever lived before he can truly understand what life was all about and move on from the world. So he had to live the life of every evil dictator, every oppressed person etc... I really liked that.

[Livia]

Really confuses me that our species has this desire to hang on to some childish notions of life, consciousness, and the "soul".

People who do this actually limit their window to the real beauty of existence. People can believe what they like but recycling existence over and again? How does it follow that people often have similar personality traits to their parents, who have similar personality traits to their parents, and back in a human regression?

How far back did this start happening? Do other apes also have this recycling personality thing going on? Is it all life, or are we humans really that special?

I don't think it's any sillier a notion than the premise that something as complex and perfect a creation as a human being has one short burst of life with no purpose. None of us know for sure until we actually die, so all the idea about what happens when we shuffle off this mortal coil are both possible and impossible.

[Jesus.]

I don't think it's any sillier a notion than the premise that something as complex and perfect a creation as a human being has one short burst of life with no purpose. None of us know for sure until we actually die, so all the idea about what happens when we shuffle off this mortal coil are both possible and impossible.

You don't think it's sillier that there are a finite number of souls that float around nowhere waiting for sperm to hit an egg before being reassigned? I do, I think it's completely absurd. Life does have a purpose, it's just that the purpose is guided by our genes, rather than anything under our control.

Of course it's both possible and impossible, but that's a million miles away from being likely, and comes from the human desire to be special or separate from nature.

If this theory was put forward for giraffes, but not humans, people would think it's crazy. When mystical pseudo-science tries to interject itself with scientific hypotheses, then you get a mish-mash of blurred thinking, and that's all these scenarios provide. It's just not logical.

[Z]

You don't think it's sillier that there are a finite number of souls that float around nowhere waiting for sperm to hit an egg before being reassigned? I do, I think it's completely absurd. Life does have a purpose, it's just that the purpose is guided by our genes, rather than anything under our control.

Of course it's both possible and impossible, but that's a million miles away from being likely, and comes from the human desire to be special or separate from nature.

If this theory was put forward for giraffes, but not humans, people would think it's crazy. When mystical pseudo-science tries to interject itself with scientific hypotheses, then you get a mish-mash of blurred thinking, and that's all these scenarios provide. It's just not logical.

True, but people are optimistic creatures and we like to think that by virtue of our sentient ability to be top of the food chain, that marks us out for greater things. It's only natural. It's comforting when a loved one has died and it's something to cling onto when your own life is coming to an end because on some level, most people are afraid of dying because then they'll miss out on life...

[Livia]

You don't think it's sillier that there are a finite number of souls that float around nowhere waiting for sperm to hit an egg before being reassigned? I do, I think it's completely absurd. Life does have a purpose, it's just that the purpose is guided by our genes, rather than anything under our control.

Of course it's both possible and impossible, but that's a million miles away from being likely, and comes from the human desire to be special or separate from nature.

If this theory was put forward for giraffes, but not humans, people would think it's crazy. When mystical pseudo-science tries to interject itself with scientific hypotheses, then you get a mish-mash of blurred thinking, and that's all these scenarios provide. It's just not logical.


Life is absurd. Some of the greatest minds of humanity have been unable to answer the questions you seem to be so certain about. What's not logical is to assume your own rather bleak ideas are right and everyone else is just rather silly.

If you don't believe there is anything after death, and others do, I don't undestand the need to smash down other people's beliefs and call them absurd.

[Jesus.]

True, but people are optimistic creatures and we like to think that by virtue of our sentient ability to be top of the food chain, that marks us out for greater things. It's only natural. It's comforting when a loved one has died and it's something to cling onto when your own life is coming to an end because on some level, most people are afraid of dying because then they'll miss out on life...

It's not really optimism that drives this emotion, it's fear, as your last few words prove.

Life doesn't owe us anything, and a twist of evolution doesn't mark us out as special in my view. We evolved a set of skills due to the environment we were living in and nature took care of the rest. It's an insurmountably nonsensical leap from that to theories (I use that word extremely lightly) of floating consciousness and the divine communicating with the most ignorant.

If a belief in god/reincarnation gets people through their days, then knock themselves out. Just don't make scientific claims about it.

[Z]

It's not really optimism that drives this emotion, it's fear, as your last few words prove.

Life doesn't owe us anything, and a twist of evolution doesn't mark us out as special in my view. We evolved a set of skills due to the environment we were living in and nature took care of the rest. It's an insurmountably nonsensical leap from that to theories (I use that word extremely lightly) of floating consciousness and the divine communicating with the most ignorant.

If a belief in god/reincarnation gets people through their days, then knock themselves out. Just don't make scientific claims about it.

Some people choose to mask their fear with optimism; but it's the same thing at the end of the day/your life. Perhaps not, but that is why people think there must be a greater purpose to our lives because we, as a species, consider ourselves top of the pile. I've always held the view that science has come to explain the mysteries of God and that they are in fact one and the same. People have always attributed miracles and plagues and diseases and disasters to an act of a god; but science has come on in leaps and bounds dramatically over the last couple of centuries and has started to explain things that our ancestors couldn't.

Perhaps the end result of all that scientific explanation will be categorical proof that there is no God or afterlife; or perhaps it will prove that there is one. I don't know, I'm not making any discoveries. Like yourself, if people want to hold their beliefs about life and death that contradict my own, that's their prerogative, they are no more right or wrong than I am because we're all still alive and when we die, we're no longer a part of life.

[Jesus.]

Life is absurd. Some of the greatest minds of humanity have been unable to answer the questions you seem to be so certain about. What's not logical is to assume your own rather bleak ideas are right and everyone else is just rather silly.

If you don't believe there is anything after death, and others do, I don't undestand the need to smash down other people's beliefs and call them absurd.

No one knows what will happen after we die, but we see bodies decaying, we can map deterioration in brain function (we are our brains), and we can watch life fizzle out before us. It doesn't take a great mind to philosophise on these matters, but my approach is that we get to see life disappearing before our own observable eyes.

The approach of magical thinkers is that they also get to see life disappearing before their very eyes, but somehow they know that part of us lives on and either ascends upwards, descends downwards, or floats around waiting to hitch a lift on a new life.

My views are actually completely humble to nature, anyone positing about things that happen after death have all the arrogance, and all of the work ahead of them.

[Livia]

No one knows what will happen after we die, but we see bodies decaying, we can map deterioration in brain function (we are our brains), and we can watch life fizzle out before us. It doesn't take a great mind to philosophise on these matters, but my approach is that we get to see life disappearing before our own observable eyes.

The approach of magical thinkers is that they also get to see life disappearing before their very eyes, but somehow they know that part of us lives on and either ascends upwards, descends downwards, or floats around waiting to hitch a lift on a new life.

My views are actually completely humble to nature, anyone positing about things that happen after death have all the arrogance, and all of the work ahead of them.


Apart from the emboldended sentence, the rest of your post is self-righteous conjecture.

[Jesus.]

Some people choose to mask their fear with optimism; but it's the same thing at the end of the day/your life. Perhaps not, but that is why people think there must be a greater purpose to our lives because we, as a species, consider ourselves top of the pile. I've always held the view that science has come to explain the mysteries of God and that they are in fact one and the same. People have always attributed miracles and plagues and diseases and disasters to an act of a god; but science has come on in leaps and bounds dramatically over the last couple of centuries and has started to explain things that our ancestors couldn't.

Perhaps the end result of all that scientific explanation will be categorical proof that there is no God or afterlife; or perhaps it will prove that there is one. I don't know, I'm not making any discoveries. Like yourself, if people want to hold their beliefs about life and death that contradict my own, that's their prerogative, they are no more right or wrong than I am because we're all still alive and when we die, we're no longer a part of life.

It is impossible to prove that negative, and I don't believe there will ever be a definitive answer to the question. The thing that annoys me, is that people treat it like an equal thing:

Some say this, others say that, ergo it could be either.

No, that's not true, there is no reason to believe any of it.

[Ammi]

..I don't believe in reincarnation as such in that we come back until we get it right..?...but if people do believe that then so be it, I can't disprove it either and nor can anyone else...I do however believe that our bodies expire but our energy does not and is possible 'somewhere'..the thing that makes us, us and unique and that's certainly not our bodies but something else...you can call it a soul if you want, it's only a word and doesn't matter what you call....

...I'm not stupid, naïve whatever..I don't need any comfort blankets when someone I love dies, I say this because I believe it to be true and at least a possibility and to refuse it as a possibility is just as naïve as the reverse is....

[Jesus.]

Apart from the emboldended sentence, the rest of your post is self-righteous conjecture.

How so? I'll ignore the classic ad hominem. Point out which bits of that post are actually untrue?

[Z]

My own view on religion vs science is that religion views science as an adversary and science views religion in a condescending way. Generally speaking, of course. To my mind; science explains religion, and religion explains science. There've just been too many human conflicts over the matter for anyone to really concede that they are one and the same. Religion and religious teachings sought to 'explain' that which could not be explained. Science is now filling in the blanks.

Of course, none of that really answers the OP question about an after life :laugh:

[Jesus.]

..I don't believe in reincarnation as such in that we come back until we get it right..?...but if people do believe that then so be it, I can't disprove it either and nor can anyone else...I do however believe that our bodies expire but our energy does not and is possible 'somewhere'..the thing that makes us, us and unique and that's certainly not our bodies but something else...you can call it a soul if you want, it's only a word and doesn't matter what you call....

...I'm not stupid, naïve whatever..I don't need any comfort blankets when someone I love dies, I say this because I believe it to be true and at least a possibility and to refuse it as a possibility is just as naïve as the reverse is....

I disagree with that last bit. I've never discounted it as a possibility, but people need to bring more to the table than "I believe this". I promise you now, if someone provided evidence and could prove that Thor, Osiris, Reincarnation, Zeus, Yaweh (delete as applicable), then I'd drop to my knees and worship it instantly.

My ideas are solid based on what we know, if what we know changes then I don't have that intellectual rigidity to flog the dead horse.

[Livia]

How so? I'll ignore the classic ad hominem. Point out which bits of that post are actually untrue?

I didn't say they were untrue, I said they were conjecture.

[Ammi]

I disagree with that last bit. I've never discounted it as a possibility, but people need to bring more to the table than "I believe this". I promise you now, if someone provided evidence and could prove that Thor, Osiris, Reincarnation, Zeus, Yaweh (delete as applicable), then I'd drop to my knees and worship it instantly.

My ideas are solid based on what we know, if what we know changes then I don't have that intellectual rigidity to flog the dead horse.

...you need absolute 'proof' of things though and I don't believe that everything in this universe does have to be proved, I think there's a balance because a large part of the human make-up is emotional and not something tangible...emotions drive us and rule us as much as anything so there isn't any reason for me to not believe that when we die there is something more than our bodies, which may expire with us, I don't know for sure that it doesn't but I don't know that it does either and I'm open to those possibilities...and for me it doesn't matter why I'm open to it..?..whether it's because of religious beliefs or anything else...when someone says something to me..anything in everyday life, I don't ask them for proof..I believe things without having to always have that proof....

[Jesus.]

I didn't say they were untrue, I said they were conjecture.

Is it conjecture that we see death?
Is it conjecture that we see the process the body goes through after death?
Is it conjecture that those with beliefs believe they have access to other information that negates those first 2 things?

I fail to see how that can be viewed as conjecture.

[Ammi]

Is it conjecture that we see death?
Is it conjecture that we see the process the body goes through after death?
Is it conjecture that those with beliefs believe they have access to other information that negates those first 2 things?

I fail to see how that can be viewed as conjecture.


..no one said they had 'information'..it's the exact opposite..it's not always requiring 'information' are absolute proof of everything in this universe because it's far to complex to understand and explain everything in life...

[arista]

Well?




yes I was King
My Castle was well protected

http://www.hdwallpapersbest.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bodiam_castle_and_bridge_east_sussex_england.jpg

[Livia]

Maybe you need to see someone you love die, and then feel them around you... not just imagine it, but feel sure in the knowledge, feel it in your heart. Maybe you have to experience that.

Anyway, my beliefs are my own, I feel no need to share them, and if no one else believes them, I could care less... but not much less.

[Kizzy]

'anyone positing about things that happen after death have all the arrogance'

'People who do this actually limit their window'

'the divine communicating with the most ignorant'

'I've never discounted it as a possibility,'

Out of all the statements you've made jesus I prefer the one in bold.

[Jesus.]

..no one said they had 'information'..it's the exact opposite..it's not always requiring 'information' are absolute proof of everything in this universe because it's far to complex to understand and explain everything in life...

But then that's really just magical thinking, Ammi. Whatever way you dress it up.

When someone makes a claim about what they had for lunch, or that they're going out with friends, I don't need proof, but if someone is making claims about what happens after death, then I sort of see that as a completely different thing. I'm not talking about people who are "open" to it, but those that actually believe it.

Whatever gets you through your day.

I feel this thread has sort of reached an impasse, and we'll all go round in circles from this point on. I suggest, that on the count of 3 that everybody retreats slowly and finds their nearest available exit.

[Ammi]

But then that's really just magical thinking, Ammi. Whatever way you dress it up.

When someone makes a claim about what they had for lunch, or that they're going out with friends, I don't need proof, but if someone is making claims about what happens after death, then I sort of see that as a completely different thing. I'm not talking about people who are "open" to it, but those that actually believe it.

Whatever gets you through your day.

I feel this thread has sort of reached an impasse, and we'll all go round in circles from this point on. I suggest, that on the count of 3 that everybody retreats slowly and finds their nearest available exit.



..no it's not 'magical'..that's extremely condescending and dismissive, I don't know whether you realise that though..I am not 'magical' at all...and it's very much not that different from not having to have 'proof' of other things because no one really knows what happens when we die..it's one of those things we can't come back and tell our story of...do I 'believe' that I'll somehow remain 'in spirit' when I die and watch over my children..?..no I don't but then I don't believe I definitely won't either because I really don't know and neither do you so my beliefs or whatever are no more or less 'magical' to yours...


..anyway, yes, I'm done with this thread....



..1 ..2..3...gone....

[Kizzy]

I'm not going anywhere, and am happy to discuss any view no matter how implausible.

[Jords]

I wonder who was a creep in their past lives!!

[Verbal]

Maybe you need to see someone you love die, and then feel them around you... not just imagine it, but feel sure in the knowledge, feel it in your heart. Maybe you have to experience that.

Anyway, my beliefs are my own, I feel no need to share them, and if no one else believes them, I could care less... but not much less.

My father was the most straight laced person you could ever meet. Mention supernatural things to him and he would just scoff at you.

About twenty years ago now his mother died, on the night after the funeral we went home and he went to bed. To this very day he swears that he felt his mother sit on his bed whilst he was laying there.

We also had a baby die in the family not that long after. In my parents house they had a picture of the baby in a silver frame above the TV. On a regular basis the thing would go flying across the room whilst everyone was sitting there, as if someone had picked it up and thrown it.

[CaudleHalbard]

In terms of the universe we are, in Earth terms, like ants crawling around a tiny spherical rock

We are one planet circling an insignificant star in a universe of an estimated 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars.

But we think we know it all don't we? Lol! ;)

[Kate!]

Maybe you need to see someone you love die, and then feel them around you... not just imagine it, but feel sure in the knowledge, feel it in your heart. Maybe you have to experience that.

Anyway, my beliefs are my own, I feel no need to share them, and if no one else believes them, I could care less... but not much less.

I've experienced that. Good post.

[Z]

My dad swears by this story that on the day of his father's funeral, a mouse ran out of the plot just before the coffin was buried, sat on the graveside for a good long moment staring at all of the gathered mourners and then ran away - and he said it felt like it was his dad. I've never really had anyone close to me pass away (yet) so I can't really comment either way, but I think especially if it comforts people then others should respect their right to hold that view. It's the same in any aspect of life - I don't like having the views of others forced upon me and I wouldn't do it to them.

[CaudleHalbard]

When we are consumed with grief it is easy to lose objectivity.

However there is no proof that consciousness goes out of existence or indeed comes into existence. For all we know it is a continuum.

Scientific research into reincarnation has been done by the late Prof Ian Stevenson and others. You can read about it here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation_research

[Livia]

When we are consumed with grief it is easy to lose objectivity.

However there is no proof that consciousness goes out of existence or indeed comes into existence. For all we know it is a continuum.

Scientific research into reincarnation has been done by the late Prof Ian Stevenson and others. You can read about it here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation_research

Seriously. Wikipedia.

[CaudleHalbard]

Seriously. Wikipedia.

Have a read of the article first before leaping to comment!

Wikipedia has been shown to be more accurate than the Encyclopaedia Britannica. One of the reasons why nobody bothers with Britannica now.

[Verbal]

When we are consumed with grief it is easy to lose objectivity.

However there is no proof that consciousness goes out of existence or indeed comes into existence. For all we know it is a continuum.

Scientific research into reincarnation has been done by the late Prof Ian Stevenson and others. You can read about it here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation_research

I will quite happily concede that the experience I described above that my father had was down to exactly what you say. But the picture of the baby flying across the room, I saw with my own eyes, many times.

[Livia]

Have a read of the article first before leaping to comment!

Wikipedia has been shown to be more accurate than the Encyclopaedia Britannica. One of the reasons why nobody bothers with Britannica now.

Yes, that's the reason no one bothers with Britannica now. Did you read that in Wikipedia?

[CaudleHalbard]

Yes, that's the reason no one bothers with Britannica now. Did you read that in Wikipedia?

No.

Have you read the article?