Labour in row with Tesco and Next over foreign workers

[arista]

Already Next and Tesco has said his amounts are wrong.
And the irony is,
it was New Labour that brought in "over
the amount" of migrant workers in their 13 years.



[Labour has become embroiled in a row
with the supermarket chain Tesco and
clothing retailer Next over the recruitment
of cheap eastern European workers
at the expense of British staff.
Chris Bryant, the shadow
immigration minister, said the party had received
claims from employees that both firms
were "unscrupulous employers" which
had recently favoured foreign workers
over Britons. But his words prompted both
companies to accuse Labour of getting
basic facts wrong. ]


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/11/labour-tesco-next-foreign-workers

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/12/article-2389216-026AEBD400000514-993_634x476.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/12/article-2389216-1B403FFC000005DC-991_634x454.jpg


Tony Blair chose not to restrict immigration from Eastern Europe,
saying the availability of cheap labour would boost British businesses

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2389216/Tesco-Next-hit-Labour-attack-hiring-cheap-migrants-British-workers.html#ixzz2bjv5yOmq

[Z]

There's a really nasty attitude towards immigrants in this country; possibly because we're an island nation and are predisposed to be suspicious of people "entering our territory"...

[arista]

Bryant is Live on all media now

[Vicky.]

There's a really nasty attitude towards immigrants in this country; possibly because we're an island nation and are predisposed to be suspicious of people "entering our territory"...

I wouldnt think the constant bleating on about how indigenous brits dont want to work while foreigners do helps matters. When its a load of bollocks.

Or constant (bull****) stories in the press about how much help immigrants get compared to the british born.

[Kizzy]

I think there a loopholes in wage laws in this country need closing, to protect everyone.

[Z]

I wouldnt think the constant bleating on about how indigenous brits dont want to work while foreigners do helps matters. When its a load of bollocks.

Or constant (bull****) stories in the press about how much help immigrants get compared to the british born.

Probably not, but that's the huge problem with what the welfare state has become - plenty of people have taken advantage of the system and now there is a part of the population that will happily take benefits instead of working, which then paints everyone who is dependent on the welfare system in a bad light. Then, naturally, people come to this country for a better quality of life and they discover they can live on benefits instead of working! Marvellous. So then all immigrants get painted in a bad light. Essentially I think the welfare system needs a major reboot to weed out people who take advantage of the system; which is where the problematic attitudes towards immigrants stems from I think. It's fine to get annoyed if you're coming into contact with an immigrant worker who's struggling at their job. You'd be just as frustrated if it was an indigenous person who was struggling at it too. It's the more targeted attitudes that need changing in my opinion. It's nasty to hold negative attitudes towards foreign workers because they're "taking jobs".

[Vicky.]

Probably not, but that's the huge problem with what the welfare state has become - plenty of people have taken advantage of the system and now there is a part of the population that will happily take benefits instead of working, which then paints everyone who is dependent on the welfare system in a bad light. Then, naturally, people come to this country for a better quality of life and they discover they can live on benefits instead of working! Marvellous. So then all immigrants get painted in a bad light. Essentially I think the welfare system needs a major reboot to weed out people who take advantage of the system; which is where the problematic attitudes towards immigrants stems from I think. It's fine to get annoyed if you're coming into contact with an immigrant worker who's struggling at their job. You'd be just as frustrated if it was an indigenous person who was struggling at it too. It's the more targeted attitudes that need changing in my opinion. It's nasty to hold negative attitudes towards foreign workers because they're "taking jobs".

Indeed.

And I honestly dont think the welfare state needs to be changed much..as the only way to change it(to this government anyway) is to give people less..and what you get on JSA is already a pittance in reality, despite the daily star making out its enough for you to be down the pub all day everyday and such :laugh:

If wages will not go up(which is the obvious answer...), then we need to give people more help when working low paid jobs. At the moment I understand you can earn £20 before they take it away from your benefits, pound by pound. That £20 would probably be eaten up in travel costs, plus more. Universal credit sees this to be changed to £70 you can earn before it affects anything, which is a lot more realistic.

Most people out of work are only out of work for short periods..obviously at the moment people are out of work for longer than they would have been years ago as there are not many jobs around.

Some rules need to be changed around JSA too. At the moment you cant really study or anything or you lose all entitlements. The massive majority on long term unemployment benefits, are on them because they have no qualifications to actually get a job (hell even waiting jobs and stuff need GCSES/experience these days) yet they cant do a college course as they would have nothing to live on while doing the course. Thats ridiculous to me. Absolutely ridiculous. If they have next to no chance of getting a job, then surely its better for them to better their chances..than spend day in day out applying for stuff they will surely be rejected for, just to meet their JSA conditions?!

[Z]

Indeed.

And I honestly dont think the welfare state needs to be changed much..as the only way to change it(to this government anyway) is to give people less..and what you get on JSA is already a pittance in reality, despite the daily star making out its enough for you to be down the pub all day everyday and such :laugh:

If wages will not go up(which is the obvious answer...), then we need to give people more help when working low paid jobs. At the moment I understand you can earn £20 before they take it away from your benefits, pound by pound. That £20 would probably be eaten up in travel costs, plus more. Universal credit sees this to be changed to £70 you can earn before it affects anything, which is a lot more realistic.

Most people out of work are only out of work for short periods..obviously at the moment people are out of work for longer than they would have been years ago as there are not many jobs around.

Some rules need to be changed around JSA too. At the moment you cant really study or anything or you lose all entitlements. The massive majority on long term unemployment benefits, are on them because they have no qualifications to actually get a job (hell even waiting jobs and stuff need GCSES/experience these days) yet they cant do a college course as they would have nothing to live on while doing the course. Thats ridiculous to me. Absolutely ridiculous. If they have next to no chance of getting a job, then surely its better for them to better their chances..than spend day in day out applying for stuff they will surely be rejected for, just to meet their JSA conditions?!

Yeah there's a poverty trap in the UK and it needs an institutional change to break it. There's a certain point where you can be working an insane number of hours, not be entitled to any supporting benefits and still be earning less than people on maximum benefits which is shocking. Taking money away from people who need it is not the answer. It makes me really angry.

[Vicky.]

Yeah there's a poverty trap in the UK and it needs an institutional change to break it. There's a certain point where you can be working an insane number of hours, not be entitled to any supporting benefits and still be earning less than people on maximum benefits which is shocking. Taking money away from people who need it is not the answer. It makes me really angry.

Its part-time work thats the problem I think. The government (any government) love it because it massages the unemployment figures, but realistically, working 10 hours a week or less is no good. Businesses love it because its cheaper to take on two or more part-time workers than a fulltime one. But the actual workers are screwed.

Its good for single parents, or parents where one works fulltime. But at the moment, every job(especially unskilled ones) seems to be 16 hours or less, or a 0 hour contract. 0 hour contracts are just ridiculous IMO.

Since they changed the rules with working tax credit too from 16 hours to 24..its knacked up a lot of people(many who I know) because the companies wont/cant give them the extra hours they need, yet they cant get any help..so are now worse off than they would be if they were unemployed.

[Kizzy]

Why are we looking at benefits here? If companies are finding ways around the minimum wage laws by recruiting staff from agencies set up abroad specifically to find a cheap workforce then who does that benefit?
Not us and not them either as they have to live here.

[Z]

My friend works on a 0 hour contract for a catering company, travelling bar and catering service type thing where if you are working, you and some others are driving a van full of stuff for a function (e.g. a wedding) ranging from food to the marquee tent and you set up and pack up the entire thing. They're paid insane amounts of money and they're on a 0 hour contract because it's easier for the company to call everyone on their books up and ask them short notice if they can do a 12 hour stint at a castle out in the middle of nowhere than it is to regularly have the same person provide the same service. It works well for my friend and everyone that works there because they're all young people (from about 16-24) and are either at school or are students.

[Vicky.]

My friend works on a 0 hour contract for a catering company, travelling bar and catering service type thing where if you are working, you and some others are driving a van full of stuff for a function (e.g. a wedding) ranging from food to the marquee tent and you set up and pack up the entire thing. They're paid insane amounts of money and they're on a 0 hour contract because it's easier for the company to call everyone on their books up and ask them short notice if they can do a 12 hour stint at a castle out in the middle of nowhere than it is to regularly have the same person provide the same service. It works well for my friend and everyone that works there because they're all young people (from about 16-24) and are either at school or are students.
Yeah they are good for those with no commitments. But if you have a house and stuff..its no good having no guaranteed work (I know this because of my job :( )

[Vicky.]

Why are we looking at benefits here? If companies are finding ways around the minimum wage laws by recruiting staff from agencies set up abroad specifically to find a cheap workforce then who does that benefit?
Not us and not them either as they have to live here.

The companies. As usual. Who gives a stuff about anyone else. I dont expect anything to be done about this tbh :bored:

[Livia]

Why is it not correct to ask the question, why are there so many British people out of work when foreign people come to the country and find jobs? There are lots of people out of work where I live, and yet, there is a high population of Polish people, all integrating and working hard. Why is it seen as unhelpful if I broach that subject? I can almost hear people looking horrified and saying "Shhhhhhhh!".

[Z]

Yeah they are good for those with no commitments. But if you have a house and stuff..its no good having no guaranteed work (I know this because of my job :( )

Yeah I know... just when I saw the outrage at 0 hour contracts I kind of shrugged it off because I know plenty of people who do that and it suits them just fine; whereas if I was a bit older, my social circle would likely be composed mostly of people with financial obligations and families to support so I would view that debate differently.

[Kizzy]

The question is not where are the workers, the question is how much do they earn?
How can anyone earn enough to contribute on minimum wage or less whilst still living in the UK?

[Kizzy]

The companies. As usual. Who gives a stuff about anyone else. I dont expect anything to be done about this tbh :bored:

Me either but it begs the question if they earn nothing they contribute nothing and spend nothing... So how does our economy work?
So why are the government ok with this practice?

[arista]

Today Bryant had to back track
as all his data was second hand info from only a few locals
was wrong about Tesco and Next

On Ch4News Live now

[Lee.]

I work for next.. There's 50 staff in my store and we're all British.

[Lee.]

Infract that's incorrect.. We have 1 Romanian working for us.

[arista]

I work for next.. There's 50 staff in my store and we're all British.


Yes he got scatty info
not from real numbers.

[chuff me dizzy]

I wouldnt think the constant bleating on about how indigenous brits dont want to work while foreigners do helps matters. When its a load of bollocks.

Or constant (bull****) stories in the press about how much help immigrants get compared to the british born.

Me too ,if you took any notice of the press you could believe that we NEED immigrant workers ,and they would have you believe they all come here to work ,when this is utter rot, who picked fruit,worked in fields, cleaned office blocks etc before they all arrived en mass ? The British did .... my husband works at Tesco warehouse, 99% of ALL agency workers are immigrants ,with the Slavakians not even paying Uk tax rates ,they pay the tax of their country of origin ,its disgusting, how it will be when our Grandchildren need jobs is a scary thought

[chuff me dizzy]

Infract that's incorrect.. We have 1 Romanian working for us.

Do you work in the warehouse? This is where immigrants have all the jobs at Tesco

[Lee.]

Do you work in the warehouse? This is where immigrants have all the jobs at Tesco

No, I work in a shop. Beastie who uses this forum works in one of the warehouses though..

[chuff me dizzy]

No, I work in a shop. Beastie who uses this forum works in one of the warehouses though..

I cannot speak about Next, because I dont know the facts,but Tesco I do know , it is obscene ,they get all the overtime ,the Tesco workers get minimum,my friends son works in Amazon warehouse, he says its the same there ,the English workers are outnumbered

[Kizzy]

Me too ,if you took any notice of the press you could believe that we NEED immigrant workers ,and they would have you believe they all come here to work ,when this is utter rot, who picked fruit,worked in fields, cleaned office blocks etc before they all arrived en mass ? The British did .... my husband works at Tesco warehouse, 99% of ALL agency workers are immigrants ,with the Slavakians not even paying Uk tax rates ,they pay the tax of their country of origin ,its disgusting, how it will be when our Grandchildren need jobs is a scary thought

Exactly my point chuff, how is this legal in the UK?

[Z]

It would help if the UK embraced EU membership properly instead of standing by the edge of the swimming pool in its trunks with its arms folded refusing to get in. I don't know why the UK doesn't have a fixed rate minimum wage with tax payable to the authorities for all residents of the UK but it really ought to. As it is; a lot of people come here to earn better money for the same job they'd be doing at home and send the money back home to struggling families and after a few years go back home again.

[arista]

It would help if the UK embraced EU membership properly instead of standing by the edge of the swimming pool in its trunks with its arms folded refusing to get in. I don't know why the UK doesn't have a fixed rate minimum wage with tax payable to the authorities for all residents of the UK but it really ought to. As it is; a lot of people come here to earn better money for the same job they'd be doing at home and send the money back home to struggling families and after a few years go back home again.


But Germany is under full euro
and they put in laws to protect their own factory workers
over migrants.



Blair and his New Labour took away any blocks
and let in to many migrant workers.

[Z]

Right, so why are we still flailing over a mess Tony Blair created 10 years ago? It's madness.

[Jesus.]

Me too ,if you took any notice of the press you could believe that we NEED immigrant workers ,and they would have you believe they all come here to work ,when this is utter rot, who picked fruit,worked in fields, cleaned office blocks etc before they all arrived en mass ? The British did .... my husband works at Tesco warehouse, 99% of ALL agency workers are immigrants ,with the Slavakians not even paying Uk tax rates ,they pay the tax of their country of origin ,its disgusting, how it will be when our Grandchildren need jobs is a scary thought

Lots of countries have UK tax agreements with the UK. I don't see anyone moaning about America having the same agreement in place. How many Madonna's need to live in the uk and not pay our tax, to cover every Slovakian in the country?

The people who picked our fruit before, are former immigrants that have now turned into British citizens in line with the new wave of xenophobic ramblings, about Europeans coming over her to take our jobs.

You want to know the truth? I don't think the government is investing enough in infrastructure to create jobs for all workers on this island, but immigrants don't bitch about it on a forum, they get their arses round all the local farms and factories, and the money they get, they earn.

Way too many "British" people are happy to wait until very specific criteria are met, before they get themselves in the workplace. Not enough money, weird hours, childcare, get my nails done on Thursdays.

Want to know why 99% of industrial agency workers are immigrants? Because they're the people that go in to register, that get their paperwork sorted, that phone up on a daily/weekly basis to see whether there is any work in, that pop in to the offices to chat with a consultant for updates.

If only we could be foreigners, we'd get all the perks that Slovakians get. Bollocks. They get off their arses and put the hours in.

[chuff me dizzy]

Lots of countries have UK tax agreements with the UK. I don't see anyone moaning about America having the same agreement in place. How many Madonna's need to live in the uk and not pay our tax, to cover every Slovakian in the country?

The people who picked our fruit before, are former immigrants that have now turned into British citizens in line with the new wave of xenophobic ramblings, about Europeans coming over her to take our jobs.

You want to know the truth? I don't think the government is investing enough in infrastructure to create jobs for all workers on this island, but immigrants don't bitch about it on a forum, they get their arses round all the local farms and factories, and the money they get, they earn.

Way too many "British" people are happy to wait until very specific criteria are met, before they get themselves in the workplace. Not enough money, weird hours, childcare, get my nails done on Thursdays.

Want to know why 99% of industrial agency workers are immigrants? Because they're the people that go in to register, that get their paperwork sorted, that phone up on a daily/weekly basis to see whether there is any work in, that pop in to the offices to chat with a consultant for updates.

If only we could be foreigners, we'd get all the perks that Slovakians get. Bollocks. They get off their arses and put the hours in.

Utter rot, the "people who picked our fruit before were former immigrants" what a load of rubbish ,Ive worked in the fields veg, fruit picking ,in the early 80's .not ONE immigrant, former or otherwise were doing it then ,it was ALL the British

[Nedusa]

This thread highlights the problems with large influxes of foreign or migrant workers, a vast proportion do the jobs that we (the british born) don't want to do or are too lazy to do ie fruit picking, farm labouring, factory labouring, builders labouring, and a large proportion who are qualified will do the tradesman jobs like plumber,builder,election,bricklayer,plasterer,carp enter etc... much CHEAPER than the british born tradesmen.

The problem in the latter case is that these foreign workers can afford to undercut B.born workers as they invariably have no mortgages very low rent (sleep 6 to a room in shared house) , cash in hand so pay no tax, they have no pension pay no Council Tax etc... so yes they can earn good money but it is at the expense of establised workers with Mortgages with families, children in schools, debts, financial commitments , tax payers.....these are the people who NEED these jobs, the whole fabric of our Society relies on these social structures being maintained.

Employers looking to cut corners will always try and cut wage costs by employing people like this but at what price ?? a large proportion of the money earned by workers like these goes straight out of the country, so does not even get pumped back into the UK economy.

So all in all I think the Govt. needs to think more about creating jobs or re-training people and/or their work attitudes to working before it goes outside of the UK to find workers

[Kizzy]

This is not a xenophobic onslaught as its being perceived by some to be...
And the seasonal work is not the issue here, the OP dealt with a separate process which was the recruitment of migrants to come here and work ... and go.
So, on this premise they are not resident here so what are they putting in?
I don't for one second deny they are diligent productive workers who in their country would earn most likely less than half of our hourly rate for the same job...

The question is who benefits from the changes in employment structure, when did they occur and how far reaching will the implications be for residents of the UK?

[arista]

Right, so why are we still flailing over a mess Tony Blair created 10 years ago? It's madness.


Yes the New Labour Migrant Curse.

[LikeABoatOnWater]

Labour are just giving the Torys the next election, it is pretty laughable.

[Kizzy]

Not if people realise what a destructive force the Conservatives have been since 2010, now house and rail prices are rising.... where will anyone live or travel with their 0hr contract job?

[LikeABoatOnWater]

Not if people realise what a destructive force the Conservatives have been since 2010, now house and rail prices are rising.... where will anyone live or travel with their 0hr contract job?

Conservatives have turned this country around since the dark decade of labour.

[Kizzy]

Conservatives have turned this country around since the dark decade of labour.

Is that your opinion? Good for you.

[LikeABoatOnWater]

Is that your opinion? Good for you.

It not an opinion its fact. Look at the stats. Under Labour the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. Under the conservative everyone is getting richer.

[arista]

Conservatives have turned this country around since the dark decade of labour.




Yes with LibDem help , as well.

[Nedusa]

No they're all as bad as one another, whether it be Labour,Con,Lib Dems Govt's talk the talk in opposition and when they finally get into power they realise they are unable to walk the walk. Its not their fault really , once in power they see that the social structures set in place over the previous 5 decades or more give very little room to manoeuvre.

Most Govt's first main responsibility is to keep the economy strong so this is done by always trying to maintain "growth" and this can be achieved in part by increasing the country's workforce. The main soruce of increase has been for years to increase immigration pure and simple.

As a tactic it has worked well over the years but there comes a point when everything just stops working. Schools and Hospitals are full , roads and railways are full so in effect beyond certain numbers of people in say London eg.. the very thing you are trying to increase starts to fall as growth stagnates due to productivity dropping off due to the fact nobody can move around anymore ie if it takes 3 hours to get to work and 3 hours to get home each day where's the time to actually work ??

I think we've reached that point and bringing in Migrant workers isn't going to make any difference. We need massive investment in Roads,Railways,Houses and other infrastructure Projects perhaps new Towns utilising latest planning for optimum working, with new transport links and better road networks with less congestion.

We have been sleep walking into this mess since the end of the second World War and it frightens me to think what will happen if things continue the same way.

We need REAL change not just another cosmetic change applied to give the appearance of prosperity but underneath the decay continues.......!!!!!!

[Kizzy]

It not an opinion its fact. Look at the stats. Under Labour the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. Under the conservative everyone is getting richer.

Do you believe that ok, which part of the UK do you live in may I ask?...
I could dig some useful stats out to corroborate your view for you maybe.

Not that turning the thread into a he said she said will serve any purpose here. We could just stick to debating the point.

[LikeABoatOnWater]

Do you believe that ok, which part of the UK do you live in may I ask?...

North West, so don't even think about giving me that **** that I'm from a perfect area and have no idea about what is really happening in the UK.

[Kizzy]

North West, so don't even think about giving me that **** that I'm from a perfect area and have no idea about what is really happening in the UK.

Did I say that? Don't get so defensive.

[LikeABoatOnWater]

Did I say that? Don't get so defensive.

I know where you were going with that.

[Kizzy]

I know where you were going with that.

Do you, what am I thinking now mind reader?....
:laugh: here's an idea, let's stick to the thread.