Suicide

[Benjamin]

Now this thread will touch on a sensitive subject, so if we could keep this to serious posts please.

I'm starting a new writing project around this subject again and would like to know your thoughts and feelings on suicide.

I have had a few friends who have sadly ended their lives and I have always had a slight, if not morbid, fascination with suicide and the thoughts and feelings behind it and of those left behind. I remember watching The Bridge, a documentary on the suicides of Golden Gate Bridge and being really touched yet surprised at the reactions of those left behind as well as the actual footage of the 'leapers'. If you haven;t watched that documentary by the way you really should.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799954/

[Lee.]

I used to just think of it as a cowards way out from the everyday pressures of life and could never understand how people could do such a thing to their loved ones.. However I've had several discussions with people who have thought about suicude and also 2 friends actually take their own life, and I have since changed my mind
I don't think anybody can really comment on suicude unless they've been so low that its actually been a serious option.
I personally don't suffer from depression and I've never had any serious financial stress but I do know that even at my lowest point, I would never take my own life.

[Nedusa]

Life is pecious and will end one day anyway........no need to rush to that day !!

[Lee.]

I actually had to talk my friend in Australia out if killing himself recently.. It's not an easy thing to do.. He didn't want to go and get help, he didn't care about the hurt he was going to cause his family, he didn't care about the guilt his friends would feel... All he wanted to do was end the pain he was in :(

[Kizzy]

I can empathise with those who feel this way, you can't begin to understand how or why they feel that desperate.
Thanks for the link ben will have a look.

[AnnieK]

It's such an emotive subject and one I hope to never fully understand. As Lee said, unless you are in that position it is impossible to fully empathise with someone considering suicide. My friends neighbour killed themselves a few years ago after losing his wife to cancer at 35....he still had a strong circle of friends plus other close family but couldn't see the point of life without his wife. I too thought it was selfish and cowardly but having though more about it, I can't comprehend the strength it must take to overcome the survival instinct and actually do it..

[Kazanne]

Now this thread will touch on a sensitive subject, so if we could keep this to serious posts please.

I'm starting a new writing project around this subject again and would like to know your thoughts and feelings on suicide.

I have had a few friends who have sadly ended their lives and I have always had a slight, if not morbid, fascination with suicide and the thoughts and feelings behind it and of those left behind. I remember watching The Bridge, a documentary on the suicides of Golden Gate Bridge and being really touched yet surprised at the reactions of those left behind as well as the actual footage of the 'leapers'. If you haven;t watched that documentary by the way you really should.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799954/

I watched it Ben,so sad to see someone jump to their death,as for suicide,it must take some bottle to know you are going to end your life at a certain time and it's sad that some people feel there is no other way out,you just think did they REALLY MEAN to do it or was it a cry for help,in that situation it seems worse as the right words or actions,at the right time,may have stopped someone doing it.Most people fight for life it seems wrong to want to end such a gift,but I say that as a happy person,I cannot imagine the depth of despair someone would get to, to even contemplate it.

[Verbal]

A young relative of mine committed suicide over a decade ago now with an overdose, seemingly because of an argument with a girl.

A former friend of mine had a son who was constantly trying to take his own life, she found him one night hanging by his neck but managed to cut him down before anything serious happened.

I've had and still do have some pretty difficult periods in my life that would probably end in some people taking their life if they were in my position, but its not something that has ever really been a serious consideration of mine. I'm far too stubborn to just give up.

[Lee.]

Apparently every person regrets suicide just as they've taken that step too far.. This makes me sad :(

[Verbal]

Apparently every person regrets suicide just as they've taken that step too far.. This makes me sad :(

Yes i've often thought of that and how terrifying it must be to have taken that step where you've swallowed 50 tablets and are just laying there waiting to die, and you have a jolt in your brain where everything suddenly becomes clear but its too late to do anything about it.

Its why I think for people considering it, it is absolutely essential that they talk about it with someone who knows where they're coming from, like The Samaritans.

[Kizzy]

Apparently every person regrets suicide just as they've taken that step too far.. This makes me sad :(

How on earth could you possibly know that?

[Verbal]

How on earth could you possibly know that?

Survivors?

[Tom4784]

I will never understand why people do it. Life, even at it's worst is better then an endless oblivion.

[Lee.]

How on earth could you possibly know that?

From people who survive?

[arista]

"your thoughts and feelings on suicide. "


I know of one women who
killed herself because she could not have a married man
all the time,

To me it stinks
Selfish.
Greedy and Wrong.

It goes on and on Ben
not many are saved.


Life In The City.

[Kizzy]

From people who survive?

In the documentary one of the jumpers had attempted suicide twice before, many people have failed attempts and then eventually kill themselves so not all change their minds evidently.

[Lee.]

In the documentary one of the jumpers had attempted suicide twice before, many people have failed attempts and then eventually kill themselves so not all change their minds evidently.

Maybe don't change their minds, but maybe still have that last minute remorse as they're actually doing it?

[Kizzy]

Maybe don't change their minds, but maybe still have that last minute remorse as they're actually doing it?

Logically if they had regrets the first time then it's reasonable to assume they wouldn't try again but a lot do, so that theory would be discredited.

[Jake.]

Obviously I've never (thankfully) been in the situation in which somebody I know has committed suicide or contemplated doing so. Although there is always the argument of 'leaving their family behind' making them out to be selfish, they must be in such a place that the hurt they are going to cause others doesn't even enter their minds, and they clearly aren't in the right frame of mind to be thinking about who they will be leaving behind. I always sympathise with those who commit suicide/contemplate it, because I could never begin to imagine how I would feel or think if I was in such a low, dark place as them.

[Lee.]

Obviously I've never (thankfully) been in the situation in which somebody I know has committed suicide or contemplated doing so. Although there is always the argument of 'leaving their family behind' making them out to be selfish, they must be in such a place that the hurt they are going to cause others doesn't even enter their minds, and they clearly aren't in the right frame of mind to be thinking about who they will be leaving behind. I always sympathise with those who commit suicide/contemplate it, because I could never begin to imagine how I would feel or think if I was in such a low, dark place as them.

I asked my friend if he had thought about the hurt he'd cause his family and how his mum would feel.. He justified by explaining that their pain over his death wouldn't come anywhere close to the pain he was in.. I think he genuinely believed that if his family realised what a dark painful place he was in, they'd understand him wanting to end it all :(

[Jake.]

I asked my friend if he had thought about the hurt he'd cause his family and how his mum would feel.. He justified by explaining that their pain over his death wouldn't come anywhere close to the pain he was in.. I think he genuinely believed that if his family realised what a dark painful place he was in, they'd understand him wanting to end it all :(

Ah Lee that's really sad :( but it shows what a place these people are in, given that suicide seems to be the only answer to stop their pain

[hijaxers]

I've known people who have committed suicide - my next door neighbour ad a friend jump from Bristol suspension bridge just 2 wks ago at 10am which suprised me as they are very savvy about people trying to jump these days !

I'm not sure if it was you i replied to in another thread a while back re :- a friend of mine who was dying of cancer and nearing the end , her son actually rang her as he jumped off the bridge and his words were 'Don't be afraid to die ' It was all so terribly sad he was only in his 20's and his poor mother was too unwell to even attend his funeral.

I have also known 2 people who had to be buried as the police couldn't rule out murder - so you have to have a burial , should any evidence come to light they may need to be dug up !
One was found hung whilst sat on a chair !

I also know of a chap who had grassed on someone (complicated story), he had police protection at his wedding but 6 wks later he had mysteriously got out of bed in the middle of the night and his wife found him hung in the porch - police believed he was forced to do this with a gun at his head - but there was no evidence !

[Lee.]

Ah Lee that's really sad :( but it shows what a place these people are in, given that suicide seems to be the only answer to stop their pain

Yeah, that's the impression I got; killing himself was the only way he could think if to make the pain stop.. He was beyond reasoning with.
IMO the cause of all his grief was silly, but it was much deeper than that.. He was in a really really bad place that death was the only cure for.

Incidentally, I talk to him quite regularly and he's stopped drinking, stopped smoking, tried to get back into having a social life and ran his first ever half marathon last week :amazed:

[hijaxers]

I also believe in the saying ' People who commit suicide leave their skeletons in other peoples cupboards '

[Jake.]

Yeah, that's the impression I got; killing himself was the only way he could think if to make the pain stop.. He was beyond reasoning with.
IMO the cause of all his grief was silly, but it was much deeper than that.. He was in a really really bad place that death was the only cure for.

Incidentally, I talk to him quite regularly and he's stopped drinking, stopped smoking, tried to get back into having a social life and ran his first ever half marathon last week :amazed:

Yeah, although it's great that he's managed to find that better place! All the best to him :)

[Kizzy]

Watching the documentary you have to ask yourself if 2 people every month commit suicide there why is it so accessible?
They could extend the height of the railings, or somehow restrict access to the ledge?

[Marc]

I sympathise with those who attempt/actually do it. You must be desperately sad to have to do something to end your own life.

[Lee.]

Watching the documentary you have to ask yourself if 2 people every month commit suicide there why is it so accessible?
They could extend the height of the railings, or somehow restrict access to the ledge?

I live really near the Forth Road Bridge, and although the jumpers are never made public, there are a lot of them! :(

[Marsh.]

I used to just think of it as a cowards way out from the everyday pressures of life and could never understand how people could do such a thing to their loved ones.. However I've had several discussions with people who have thought about suicude and also 2 friends actually take their own life, and I have since changed my mind
I don't think anybody can really comment on suicude unless they've been so low that its actually been a serious option.
I personally don't suffer from depression and I've never had any serious financial stress but I do know that even at my lowest point, I would never take my own life.

Yeah, I used to be of the opinion that it was a coward's way out. But then I think, would a coward really have the guts to go through with it? As you say they must be at a real low, with very little sense of life in them anymore to actually do it.

[Marsh.]

Watching the documentary you have to ask yourself if 2 people every month commit suicide there why is it so accessible?
They could extend the height of the railings, or somehow restrict access to the ledge?

Yeah, you would think that something would at least be attempted, but if someone is determined to do something like this then they'll do it no matter what maybe.

[Kizzy]

Yeah, you would think that something would at least be attempted, but if someone is determined to do something like this then they'll do it no matter what maybe.

Yes I appreciate that however this romanticised image of leaping from the golden gate bridge has been picked up by the programme. They have teams of people who's job is to retrieve bodies... That I'm sure is not what anyone wants to do.
There's no doubt in my mind that if someone was in that dark place they would go ahead wherever.

[AnnieK]

Yes I appreciate that however this romanticised image of leaping from the golden gate bridge has been picked up by the programme. They have teams of people who's job is to retrieve bodies... That I'm sure is not what anyone wants to do.
There's no doubt in my mind that if someone was in that dark place they would go ahead wherever.


Yeah, I agree...if someone is in that place, they wil find a way regardless. It's so sad that people feel that way...

[the truth]

a chap jumped off a building here a few months ago.....they've now built fencing around it....drugs were involved as was heavy drinking, this seems to often be the case.
ask yourself when do you get most depressed? I would say I get more down when I cant do what I want to do and feel frustrated and powerless. I would imagine these are just some of the feelings suicidal people feel. I also think they feel helpless, alone without a support system to really help them. Ive noticed the authorities herd many people with social problems into the same areas of towns and cities. that can create even more problems. yes it may be easier for the police, but is it easier for the poor people fighting for their lives to get a better quality of life

[Deirdre]

A man near where I live, think he was in his 20s, committed suicide a few years ago after his gf broke up with him. She then couldn't live with the guilt and killed herself not long after. Very sad but heartbreak can bring people to their lowest point in life.
In recent years it's become a huge, huge issue here in Ireland what with the recession and just such a messed up country. I think it's at the stage now where it's one every 24 hours or something. That's pretty serious for such a small country.

[Kizzy]

Found some stats for the UK.....

•In 2011 there were 6,045 suicides in people aged 15 and over in the UK, an increase of 437 compared with 2010.
•The UK suicide rate increased significantly between 2010 and 2011, from 11.1 to 11.8 deaths per 100,000 population.
•There were 4,552 male suicides in 2011 (a rate of 18.2 suicides per 100,000 population) and 1,493 female suicides (5.6 per 100,000 population).
•The highest suicide rate was in males aged 30 to 44 (23.5 deaths per 100,000 population in 2011).
•The suicide rate in males aged 45 to 59 increased significantly between 2007 and 2011 (22.2 deaths per 100,000 population in 2011).
•Female suicide rates were highest in 45 to 59-year-olds in 2011 (7.3 deaths per 100,000 population).


http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/subnational-health4/suicides-in-the-united-kingdom/2011/stb-suicide-bulletin.html

[the truth]

suicide is an absolute tragedy and the increase in it here is a collective failure fo our society. Also society and parliament needs to address this and in particular why suicide rates are 4 times higher in men than women. Instead of listening to twats like janet street porter telling us all men are scumbags with uninformed psychobabble about men who don't talk about and bare their feelings, lets get serious about this tragedy. we need to address this and also address the FACT there are thousands more support networks in place for women than men.

[Nemo123]

A spike of emulation suicides after a widely publicized suicide is known as the Werther effect, following Goethe's novel The Sorrows of Young Werther.

Basically mention of suicide was banned because it was believed, correctly, that people copycatted other people's suicides. I had a casual chat with a man sitting next to me on a plane about this phenomen. He agreed with me. Turned out, he told me, he was a professor of psychology.

We have had a massive spike in suicides here in Ireland in the wake of he Credit Crunch. The News's response has been to play it down, because they don't want to contribute to the copycat phenomenon.

[GypsyGoth]

I think choosing not to live is just as legitimate an option as choosing to live.

[DanaC]

Years ago, a good friend of my ex's Dad had a son. Round about the same age as me and J (19). One day, after another unsuccessful round of job applications, he went to the top of a block of flats, wrote a short poem and then jumped.

Tore the family apart. A couple of years later, the mother took an overdose, leaving just the Dad (the friend) and his 12 year old daughter.

He became an alcoholic, and over the next several years drank himself to the point of near death with liver failure before taking a fatal fall down the stairs. Presumably through being very drunk.

The girl was at this point, I think about 16. She'd lost everyone. Her entire immediate family had slipped away from her, one person at a time, by their own hand or actions.

Poor kid.

My ex's dad and the other people in that circle of friends collaborated on making sure she was ok. They kept an eye on her, were there when she needed support and collaborated on a fund for her which she was given access to when she turned 18.



My own views on suicide are that you really do not know what is going on in someone else's head. Maybe they're not as strong as you, who somehow cope with the pain. Or maybe they feel more pain than you do, regardless of the things you may have faced.

Maybe they're clinically depressed, in which case the reasons they have at the time may be lost to them later if they survive. Maybe there was no reason as such, just an absolute conviction that this thing must be done.

Some no doubt think they are doing the best they can for their loved ones. believing in their depressed state that they are burdens from which to free their families. Some are wholly inward looking, and the rest of the world has retreated behind the glass wall, intangible and less immediate than their own pain.

I don't believe it is the act of a coward. Save in a few very specific circumstances (the guy who was sentenced to life in prison for abducting and keeping prisoner for years, several young women and who chose not to serve even a fraction of his sentence). I think the reality of actually doing the deed is terrifying. Despair alone is not enough. Lots of people contemplate suicide because of despair or weariness without actually taking that step. Something pushes other people past that point.

If they suffer from depression (as opposed to being very unhappy) then there really may not be a reason at all. They are not acting in their right mind. They are subject to damaging patterns of thought brought about by chemical imbalance in the brain. No amount of personal or moral strength protects against that.

[Amy Jade]

My friends Dad committed suicide because his marriage broke up and after a year or so of being separated she started started seeing a new guy, he never stopped seeing his kids but loads of people said he turned to drugs but he was always nice to me and used to come and see my Dad now and then and he seemed totally normal, the last straw must of been hearing his ex wife was moving in with her new fella, like a week after that somebody found him hanging from a tree behind a local social club. It really messed his youngest son up, not sure how old he is now because he moved away but he was about 12 and he was never the same after, he stopped talking to a lot of people and he only spoke to me because we live 3 doors away from him and we used have to interact.

It's weird how you think after stuff like this happens, my Dad was down for weeks and I heard him get upset talking to my Mum saying he should have done more with him to keep his mind off things and it pretty much destroyed his youngest sons life. I think some elements are very selfish about suicide in that sense but it's unimaginable how desperate a person must be to take their own life.

[Ammi]

My friends Dad committed suicide because his marriage broke up and after a year or so of being separated she started started seeing a new guy, he never stopped seeing his kids but loads of people said he turned to drugs but he was always nice to me and used to come and see my Dad now and then and he seemed totally normal, the last straw must of been hearing his ex wife was moving in with her new fella, like a week after that somebody found him hanging from a tree behind a local social club. It really messed his youngest son up, not sure how old he is now because he moved away but he was about 12 and he was never the same after, he stopped talking to a lot of people and he only spoke to me because we live 3 doors away from him and we used have to interact.

It's weird how you think after stuff like this happens, my Dad was down for weeks and I heard him get upset talking to my Mum saying he should have done more with him to keep his mind off things and it pretty much destroyed his youngest sons life. I think some elements are very selfish about suicide in that sense but it's unimaginable how desperate a person must be to take their own life.


..that's a really sad story for everyone SH, including your own family and your dad obviously feels a sense of 'guilt' at not being able to prevent it, which obviously he has no reason to but I think people can't help but feel like that...I do agree with your last sentence and it kind of sums up how I feel about suicide...unless you're completely 'alone' in the world..have no family/friends etc who care for you, then it can't possibly not be selfish, it's the ultimate act of thinking only of yourself but I also think that the dark place you must be at the time would prevent you from seeing anything beyond yourself and your own unhappiness....

[Kizzy]

Found a short explanation on the different subtypes that suicide affects.

http://sociology.about.com/od/Works/a/Suicide.htm

The documentary seems to focus mainly on those who had a preoccupation with ending their life, or suicidal ideation.

http://bipolar.about.com/od/suicide/g/suicidalideatio.htm

[the truth]

My friends Dad committed suicide because his marriage broke up and after a year or so of being separated she started started seeing a new guy, he never stopped seeing his kids but loads of people said he turned to drugs but he was always nice to me and used to come and see my Dad now and then and he seemed totally normal, the last straw must of been hearing his ex wife was moving in with her new fella, like a week after that somebody found him hanging from a tree behind a local social club. It really messed his youngest son up, not sure how old he is now because he moved away but he was about 12 and he was never the same after, he stopped talking to a lot of people and he only spoke to me because we live 3 doors away from him and we used have to interact.

It's weird how you think after stuff like this happens, my Dad was down for weeks and I heard him get upset talking to my Mum saying he should have done more with him to keep his mind off things and it pretty much destroyed his youngest sons life. I think some elements are very selfish about suicide in that sense but it's unimaginable how desperate a person must be to take their own life.
yet another tragic story (My condolences to the family) a tragedy largely to do with the bias in the courts towards mothers over fathers. Men lose the vast majority of divorce settlements, lose their home, their partner, their children , their wordly goods all in one day. How is anyone supposed to handle that? The male hate is everywhere now, I read a piece by some feminazis last week that said regardless of whether he was innocent michael la vell should have been found guilty so as to encourage more women to come forward. sort of highlights the demented hatred of current feminism
Its a modern day travesty, my advice to all men, love but never marry.

[Redway]

Can't say I agree with it at all; I understand that severe depression is debilitating but there are usually much better alternatives to it than to end life. Don't agree with it being illegal either, though. It's a person's choice and all that.

and wtaf @ the truth as usual banging on about reverse sexism

[the truth]

Can't say I agree with it at all; I understand that severe depression is debilitating but there are usually much better alternatives to it than to end life. Don't agree with it being illegal either, though. It's a person's choice and all that.

and wtaf @ the truth as usual banging on about reverse sexism

yes just speaking the truth? not sure why you decide to swear just to get cheap attention. eveyrthing Ive said can be backed up with enormous facts and figures over many years. men are massively discriminated against in this country, fathers especially. this is one of the major factors leading to the male suicide rate being 4 times that of females. but its ignored by spineless politicians.

[Redway]

yes just speaking the truth? not sure why you decide to swear just to get cheap attention. eveyrthing Ive said can be backed up with enormous facts and figures over many years. men are massively discriminated against in this country, fathers especially. this is one of the major factors leading to the male suicide rate being 4 times that of females. but its ignored by spineless politicians.

I didn't even use the full swears though so I don't know what you're on about with the cheap attention thing. And this thread is about a very sensitive issue - it's infuriating the way you derail these every time to suit your own agenda.

[the truth]

I didn't even use the full swears though so I don't know what you're on about with the cheap attention thing. And this thread is about a very sensitive issue - it's infuriating the way you derail these every time to suit your own agenda.

Its even more infuriating how you choose to derail it with foul language and of course how you callously ignore the plight of millions of men who lack any support in western society and feel their only way out is to kill themselves.

[Princess]

I think if a person is determined enough they'll manage it no matter how much you try to help them. My uncle killed himself cos as well as having depression he was majorily in debt and wanted the life assurance for his family. Still 4 years down the line it's affecting my family so of course it hurts and it's horrible and sad but I honestly don't think we ever could have stopped it.

[the truth]

I think if a person is determined enough they'll manage it no matter how much you try to help them. My uncle killed himself cos as well as having depression he was majorily in debt and wanted the life assurance for his family. Still 4 years down the line it's affecting my family so of course it hurts and it's horrible and sad but I honestly don't think we ever could have stopped it.

some people do turn their lives around. men like that need far far far more support.

[Kizzy]

''For men, the suicide rate was 18.2 per 100,000 population. The rate was highest among males aged 30 to 44, at 23.5 per 100,000. Among 45-59-year-old men the figure was 22.2 per 100,000.

Female suicides rose to 1,493, or 5.6 per 100,000. Suicides among 15- to 29-year-old females rose from 2.9 per 100,000 in 2007 to 4.2 per 100,000.

In England, the suicide rate was 10.4 deaths per 100,000; highest in the north-east, at 12.9, and lowest in London, at 8.9. In Wales, the suicide rate was 13.9, up from 10.7 in 2009.

Norman Lamb, the care services minister in England, said the increases must be tackled head on. "Even one life taken by suicide is one too many," he said.

Next month, his department will award research contracts worth £1.5m to develop new initiatives as part of a "refreshed" suicide prevention strategy''

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/alarm-rise-uk-suicide-rate

'WORLD SUICIDE PREVENTION DAY'
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/world-suicide-prevention-day
http://www.iasp.info/wspd/

[DanaC]

Maybe if we stop teaching young boys that their primary value lies in their role as bread winner for the family, they will be less bereft of a role when the economy puts them out of work.

If we stop teaching them that they should be the ones to support the family (instead of women) and stop teaching them that they must be more emotionally resilient than women. And stop teaching them that their place is in work and not in the home.

Lads are getting mixed messages. On the one hand they're supposed to understand that men and women are equal. On the other hand they're also taught through a variety of means, that they are supposed to be more powerful than women. No wonder they get confused. They're taught that women should be respected, whilst at the same time subjected to a culture in which women are supposed to be sexually available and subordinate to them.

I dunno. But it does seem that economic and employment problems hit men harder than women in this regard. Even though women are more likely to lose their jobs during an economic downturn.