How to fight a Do Not Resuscitate order?

[the truth]

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[Cherie]

From you post it sounds like the man is conscious and aware of what is going on could the family not write a letter stating his wishes and get him to sign it ?

[smudgie]

As far as I am aware, the patient or their family has to agree to it.
We were asked when the m.i.l. Went into a home.
Was asked when my dad was taken into hospital a few weeks before he died, I also had to inform the home he was in.
When he did die, one of the care staff tried to resuss him.
The doctor who certified him dead, myself and the care worker had to have a meeting. I was asked if I wanted it to be taken further as she had gone against the DNR order. Needless to say I just asked to let it go.

[the truth]

From you post it sounds like the man is conscious and aware of what is going on could the family not write a letter stating his wishes and get him to sign it ?

Im not sure how aware he is, but yes he is conscious, though sleepy much of the time. he is not capable of signing a letter though

[the truth]

As far as I am aware, the patient or their family has to agree to it.
We were asked when the m.i.l. Went into a home.
Was asked when my dad was taken into hospital a few weeks before he died, I also had to inform the home he was in.
When he did die, one of the care staff tried to resuss him.
The doctor who certified him dead, myself and the care worker had to have a meeting. I was asked if I wanted it to be taken further as she had gone against the DNR order. Needless to say I just asked to let it go.

what an insane situation. a person can be sued for trying to save a persons life, but a person who refuses to try and save a persons life is not sued and is in fact in a far safer legal position. (though morally if its against the wises of the dead patient and family the person appears totally immoral)

[smudgie]

what an insane situation. a person can be sued for trying to save a persons life, but a person who refuses to try and save a persons life is not sued and is in fact in a far safer legal position. (though morally if its against the wises of the dead patient and family the person appears totally immoral)

I would get some more info then get in touch with their MP.

I know there has been some controversy over this.

[Vicky.]

I always thought they needed family/patients consent for a DNR order. Seems very strange that they can do it off their own backs :/

[Cherie]

I always thought they needed family/patients consent for a DNR order. Seems very strange that they can do it off their own backs :/

In recent years some patients were put on a "care pathway" with families not informed, I thought that they could no longer do that though.

[smudgie]

In recent years some patients were put on a "care pathway" with families not informed, I thought that they could no longer do that though.

Ahh, The Liverpool care pathway.
I watched a programme on this a good while ago.

[Cherie]

I think you need legal advice here, as if the man isn't in a position to sign anything, you would have thought next of kin would have to make the decision, don't know why the Hospital is saying they can't :conf:

[the truth]

they say their opinion over rides the opinions of the next of kin

[Kizzy]

That is odd, did you say the bedsores were 3 weeks old? where has he been for the last 3 weeks?
If at home then I agree with him remaining in hospital, if not seek advice there has been a lot of media attention surrounding this lately they may be interested in the case?
I hope the guy is treated with respect and dignity in his final days.

[Nedusa]

In recent years some patients were put on a "care pathway" with families not informed, I thought that they could no longer do that though.

I think this should have been renamed the Liverpool Kill them quickly and in excruciating pain pathway.............!!!!

[the truth]

That is odd, did you say the bedsores were 3 weeks old? where has he been for the last 3 weeks?
If at home then I agree with him remaining in hospital, if not seek advice there has been a lot of media attention surrounding this lately they may be interested in the case?
I hope the guy is treated with respect and dignity in his final days.

this argument is still ongoing
it seems they are putting bandages on his wounds but no actual treatment to improve them i.e. creams, inodine etc
the hospital are constantly threatening to withdraw all treatment. He has been there a week or so. what the heck do I advise him?

[Kizzy]

If the sores are 3 weeks old and he's been in hospital the whole time then that sounds negligible, are they suggesting he came in like that?
If they were regularly cleaning and dressing they would improve unless infected....This sounds like a horrible situation, it seems they are 100% certain that nothing can be done, if he cannot remain conscious long enough to discuss his care then it seems thats hospitall policy to reduce treatment.

[the truth]

If the sores are 3 weeks old and he's been in hospital the whole time then that sounds negligible, are they suggesting he came in like that?
If they were regularly cleaning and dressing they would improve unless infected....This sounds like a horrible situation, it seems they are 100% certain that nothing can be done, if he cannot remain conscious long enough to discuss his care then it seems thats hospitall policy to reduce treatment.

the sores were there before he went in. they bandaged them up but havent actually treated them other than anti biotics. why not treat the sores too with creams/iodine etc?

[Kizzy]

Creams won't do anything but keep the wound wet and greasy.
clean dry dressed wounds heal and if he is on antibiotics for the infection that is really all that can be done, it's sad but I think this man may just be too weak to heal.

[the truth]

Creams won't do anything but keep the wound wet and greasy.
clean dry dressed wounds heal and if he is on antibiotics for the infection that is really all that can be done, it's sad but I think this man may just be too weak to heal.

I read this online about bed sores. there are loads of treatments why arent they using one of these then?



Dressings

Specially designed dressings and bandages can be used to protect pressure ulcers and speed up the healing process. Examples of these types of dressing include:
hydrocolloid dressings – these contain a special gel that encourages the growth of new skin cells in the ulcer while keeping the surrounding healthy area of skin dry
alginate dressings – these are made from seaweed and contain sodium and calcium, which are known to speed up the healing process
Creams and ointments

Topical preparations, such as cream and ointments, can be used to help speed up the healing process and also prevent further tissue damage.
Antibiotics

If you have a pressure ulcer, you will not routinely be prescribed antibiotics. Antibiotics are usually only prescribed to treat an infected pressure ulcer and prevent the infection from spreading.
Antiseptic cream may also be applied directly to pressure ulcers to clear out any bacteria that may be present.
Nutrition

Certain dietary supplements, such as protein, zinc and vitamin C, have been shown to accelerate wound healing.
If your diet lacks these vitamins and minerals, your skin may be more vulnerable to developing pressure ulcers. As a result of this, you may be referred to a dietitian so that a suitable dietary plan can be drawn up for you.
Debridement

In some cases, it may be necessary to remove dead tissue from the ulcer to help stimulate the healing process. This procedure is known as debridement.
If there is a small amount of dead tissue, it may be possible to remove it using specially designed dressings and paste. Larger amounts of dead tissue may be removed using mechanical means. Some mechanical debridement techniques include:
cleansing and pressure irrigation – where dead tissue is removed using high-pressure water jets
ultrasound – dead tissue is removed using low-frequency energy waves
laser – dead tissue is removed using focused beams of light
surgical debridement – dead tissue is removed using surgical instruments, such as scalpels and forceps

[the truth]

Creams won't do anything but keep the wound wet and greasy.
clean dry dressed wounds heal and if he is on antibiotics for the infection that is really all that can be done, it's sad but I think this man may just be too weak to heal.
they also havent given him a swallow test , my mate said its been 5 days since heas eaten and the nurses told him hes too sleepy to take the test.

[Kizzy]

It really sounds like they have decided that there is nothing else to be done for this gentleman, I'm very sorry truth.

[the truth]

It really sounds like they have decided that there is nothing else to be done for this gentleman, I'm very sorry truth.

thanks kizzy. But in terms of the NHS sorry isn't good enough. the mp has been called in now. the nurses haven't given him a swallow test for 5 or 6 days. when they fed him once , they later found some food in his pallet. why didn't they check at the time of feeding. the food was suctioned out and the nurses gave him feeding him since. in the years he was treated at home that has never happened. because the carers would sit with him and take an hour to ensure all food was swallowed properly