Miliband pledges to reverse social housing changes (josy will like this)

[michael21]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24182448

Labour has said it will reverse controversial changes to housing benefit if it wins the next election.

Ed Miliband said the reduction of support for social tenants in England, Scotland and Wales deemed to have surplus bedrooms was unfair.

Critics of the shake-up have dubbed it a "bedroom tax" but ministers said they are tackling "spare room subsidies" not available in the private sector.

Labour said it would fund the change by blocking tax cuts for businesses.

The announcement comes with the Labour Party conference about to start in Brighton.

'Wrong, iniquitous and not working'
Since April, social housing tenants with spare rooms have either had to pay more in rent or move somewhere smaller.

For months Labour has argued the change is wrong, unfair and penalises disabled people in particular, but had not committed itself to reverse the policy should it gain power after the election.

But Mr Miliband has now said the change would be paid for by scrapping a tax break for hedge funds and the Treasury's new shares-for-rights scheme.

The Labour leader said the benefit change was "wrong, iniquitous and was not working". He told the BBC that two-thirds of those affected were disabled and would struggle to find anywhere else to live.

"We are serving notice that we will end the 'bedroom tax'," he said.

The BBC's political correspondent Ben Wright said the move will cheer Labour's rank and file and please critics within the party who say it urgently needs clear policies.

But the Treasury claims Labour's figures fail to add up and that this policy would be funded by a tax on pensions and more borrowing.

"Labour's first policy commitment, after three years of waiting, is more spending on housing benefit, funded by a tax on pensions and more borrowing," said Treasury Minister Sajid Javid.

"Despite promising 'discipline' on borrowing, Ed Miliband has shown he is too weak to deliver."

The government insists the £23bn a year housing benefit bill must come down, and will press Labour to explain how it would do that.

time to say freck off to david cameron

[joeysteele]

This is more like it and one thing I have been hoping to hear from Labour, a good move definitely and I am just surprised it has taken so long.

I hope though, this move may actually force the Govt to get rid of it now, before the next election. It should never have been brought in in the first place, by anyone.

[Tom4784]

Empty promises to woo voters, Labour and the Tories are as bad as each other.

[michael21]

This is more like it and one thing I have been hoping to hear from Labour, a good move definately and I am just surprised it has taken so long.

I hope though, this move may actually force the Govt to get rid of it now, before the next election. It should never have been brought in in the first place, by anyone.

this is the best move by far Labour is the way to go :dance:

[Toy Soldier]

Empty promises to woo voters, Labour and the Tories are as bad as each other.

That would be my concern, just take a look at Tory "pledges" from before the last election. Not to mention the lib dems :/.

However, in this case, going back on the promise would enrage a chunk of their core support. Whereas the Tories made policies designed to sway traditional Labour voters and then said "oops sorry there's no money so we're going back on everything we promised" - but still delivered to their core Tory supporters. Mostly.

Promising to reverse bedroom tax and then not doing so would all but guarantee a single term for the next lab govt., it would be a stupid political move, so they won't do it.

plus the bedroom tax is ineffective and economically worthless, the money taken from people is spending money, it comes straight OUT of potential consumer sales, I.e. half of it goes to the govt coffers anyway in VAT and corporate taxes where they're not being dodged. utterly retarded policy. So theres no real financial implication in reversing it. the purpose of the bedroom tax is not to save money... it's a political chess move, part of a tactic that is (thankfully) starting to backfire on Mr Osbourne.

[Kazanne]

He's full of ****!

[Livia]

That would be my concern, just take a look at Tory "pledges" from before the last election. Not to mention the lib dems :/.

However, in this case, going back on the promise would enrage a chunk of their core support. Whereas the Tories made policies designed to sway traditional Labour voters and then said "oops sorry there's no money so we're going back on everything we promised" - but still delivered to their core Tory supporters. Mostly....


Hardly. Tory supporters are leaving in their droves. Membership of the party has declined year on year since Cameron took over as leader and have dipped dramatically since they got in. That's bad news for the Tories, they get no funding other than their supporters.

As for Miliband... to quote the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies, he would say that, wouldn't he.

[joeysteele]

That would be my concern, just take a look at Tory "pledges" from before the last election. Not to mention the lib dems :/.

However, in this case, going back on the promise would enrage a chunk of their core support. Whereas the Tories made policies designed to sway traditional Labour voters and then said "oops sorry there's no money so we're going back on everything we promised" - but still delivered to their core Tory supporters. Mostly.

Promising to reverse bedroom tax and then not doing so would all but guarantee a single term for the next lab govt., it would be a stupid political move, so they won't do it.

plus the bedroom tax is ineffective and economically worthless, the money taken from people is spending money, it comes straight OUT of potential consumer sales, I.e. half of it goes to the govt coffers anyway in VAT and corporate taxes where they're not being dodged. utterly retarded policy. So theres no real financial implication in reversing it. the purpose of the bedroom tax is not to save money... it's a political chess move, part of a tactic that is (thankfully) starting to backfire on Mr Osbourne.

I completely agree with what you say above. This is a policy that should never have been brought in at all and for me full shame on the Lib Dems for ever supporting the policy.
I have yet to meet a Lib Dem councillor who even thinks this should have been supported by his MP colleagues in Parliament.

The Conservatives have not listened at all to all of the criticism and warnings as to this policy and have been given plenty time to scrap it yet chosen not to do so.

As you say, Labour would be crazy to promise to reverse it and then not do so, just about all the Labour party think it should be scrapped and I would hope fair minded voters who also see this as a totally rotten and very badly planned policy.
I really hope Labour does win the election now and that this gets reversed along with other heartless measures brought in by this heartless Govt against those weakest in society do get reversed or compassonately amended at least.
No way will Labour not reverse this if they win, I feel 100% sure of that now.

Alao watch the hypocrisy of the Lib Dems if their votes were needed,(hopefully they won't be), that if Labour do win, where they then support reversing the bedroom charge too.

[Kizzy]

I hope they do too, it has been a little late in coming, maybe that means they thought about it for longer that the current government did? Which at a guess was about 2 mins.....
They could U turn but no rich contributor to the tory party has asked them to.

[joeysteele]

I hope they do too, it has been a little late in coming, maybe that means they thought about it for longer that the current government did? Which at a guess was about 2 mins.....
They could U turn but no rich contributor to the tory party has asked them to.

I think they really have thought about it and also of course there is no support for this policy from Labour or Lib Dem councillors all over the Country and it is also surprising how many Conservative Councillors don't like it either from the ones I have come across.

If it is still in place in 2015 then I am sure Kizzy we can rely on Miliband and Labour to get the ridiculous thing done away with once and for all and I would believe Ed Miliband a hundred times over anything David Cameron or Clegg would ever say.

[Kizzy]

Agreed but I do wish he wasn't such an all or nothing guy, he was great at the last conference and inspired great confidence then disappeared!
The government are making it incredibly easy for him at present, there are so many negatives to focus on lately.
One area I would love to see tackled is energy, read of another 8% hike today... this has to be stopped?

[Josy]

Why is my name in the title? I'm not even affected by bedroom tax :shrug:

Anyway if this ends up to be true then it's great news for those that are affected by it and those that have ended up in arrears through it all.

[joeysteele]

Agreed but I do wish he wasn't such an all or nothing guy, he was great at the last conference and inspired great confidence then disappeared!
The government are making it incredibly easy for him at present, there are so many negatives to focus on lately.
One area I would love to see tackled is energy, read of another 8% hike today... this has to be stopped?

I do get what you mean Kizzy, he isn't really inspirational and does seem to allow others to set the agenda.
I do think he is a good strategist though and I also think he knows how to likely win and just needs to get the right format for putting that into practice.

This policy is a real good and strong start.
I like most other things he is saying too really.

I guess there is little they can do as to energy prices, that is the price paid for the disastrous privatisation of the energy companies unfortunately.
I am not really a supporter of nationalisation but I do now think energy is something that should be back under State control.
The privatisation arguments were all a big con in my view it seems from all I have read as to that selling off of them.

[Kizzy]

There is one thing he could do, he could restore the feed-in tariff for solar energy.
Back in 2011 this was reduced from 21p to 11p per unit, I'm not at the moment able to provide links to information but basicallly this decision stopped the roll out of solar panels for social housing across the UK.
Those in private ownership who purchased panels could dramatically reduce their bills also, nationalisation may be astep too far but legislation can be amended?...

[Suze]

Empty promises to woo voters, Labour and the Tories are as bad as each other.


Maybe so, but this current government won't reverse stuff, so do we take that chance with Labour? If they go back on that promise, we will be no worse off and know at least to give other parties a chance come the following election, if they do keep that promise however it will be good for many. However, the bedroom tax ix only part of the problem, and other pledges need to be made and kept also.

[joeysteele]

Maybe so, but this current government won't reverse stuff, so do we take that chance with Labour? If they go back on that promise, we will be no worse off and know at least to give other parties a chance come the following election, if they do keep that promise however it will be good for many. However, the bedroom tax ix only part of the problem, and other pledges need to be made and kept also.

Very strong points Suze and I also hope for a great deal more as to policy being outlined on more of the welfare reforms and also other issues.

I am not against welfare reform and the simplification of claiming and paying benefits,what I am against is this Govts discrimination and total lack of any compassion as to the reforms they have made.
No matter who or how many organisations are warning and highlighting the dangers and unfairness of their reforms the sad thing is they just refuse to listen and take anything on board.

I hope for a full new look to the welfare reforms from Labour when in power and that they will amend and ensure compassion and fairness is at the heart of whatever is left in place.

I also hope to hear this week of the plan Andy Burnham had last year as to once in power again that he,if Health Secretary again in a Labour Govt; will repeal all he can of the top to bottom NHS reforms this Govt made.
Despite them stating clearly in the election campaign that there would be no across the board reforming of the NHS by them.

No way can I see Ed Miliband and Labour not scrapping the bedroom charge though, it would be I bet one of the very first things they do.
My worry is now,how many people though will have even more debt/arrears and possibly be even homeless before the 2015 election because of this ridiculous and heartless measure by this Coalition Govt..

[Toy Soldier]

The fact that they've piled in with everything at once is ridiculous. I agree with you that there was a need to simplify the system and change it to make more sense (the whole world pays rent and utilities monthly... benefits are paid every 4 weeks. It's ALWAYS been stupid!!) but they should have made that transition without meddling with anything else and confusing everything. If they worked on making the system airtight to ***actual fraud*** they would save billions, more than they're making out of things like the bedroom tax, that take away money that genuine people actually need.

They should have reformed and modernised the system completely, and THEN started to look at whether there's any fat to be trimmed if necessary. Or, radical idea here, they could look at reigning in the soaring cost of living and absolutely ridiculous rent levels so that people wouldn't need so much money just to scrape by.

I was talking to an elderly lady about the bedroom tax a few weeks ago... she mentioned that when she first got her (social) house her rent was something like £100 a month and has risen to £270 a month. I think she nearly dropped when I told her that my rent (exactly the same size of house - average sized semi-detached house, but a private rental) is £550 a month :/. And this is in commuter-town Scotland... if you start looking at places like Edinburgh / Glasgow / Manchester - you could probably pay double that for the same place. As for London... doesn't even bear thinking about.

Housing is a huge part of the massive benefits bill, and it's so massive because housing costs are completely ridiculous. My family moved house when I was 13, so only 15 years ago, into a detached 4 bedroom house and their mortgage was significantly less than I pay in rent per month... for a house that they would actually own at the end of it.

[Toy Soldier]

I also hope to hear this week of the plan Andy Burnham had last year as to once in power again that he,if Health Secretary again in a Labour Govt; will repeal all he can of the top to bottom NHS reforms this Govt made.
Despite them stating clearly in the election campaign that there would be no across the board reforming of the NHS by them.

The current govt. have scuttled the NHS - it's irreparably broken, in my opinion deliberately. I don't think the next government in power could fix it even if they wanted to... as was the intention. The money that would need to be pumped into it to even repair the damage that's been done would be astronomical. To elevate it to a truly world-class service would be practically impossible.

[joeysteele]

The current govt. have scuttled the NHS - it's irreparably broken, in my opinion deliberately. I don't think the next government in power could fix it even if they wanted to... as was the intention. The money that would need to be pumped into it to even repair the damage that's been done would be astronomical. To elevate it to a truly world-class service would be practically impossible.

It is going to need a lot of investment you are so right there into it to bring it back to where it was again but I still believe it is possible under the right Govt.
These reforms have caused massive confusion, have been hurriedly brought in and have caused delays likely not seen before as to NHS care.
Still, a vast majority of NHS workers don't want these reforms.

What posessed the Lib Dems to ever allow any of them to be implemented is beyond me.
Reforms no one voted for, neither of the Coalition parties had in their manifesto and also David Cameron stating clearly that there would be no top to bottom reforms of the NHS under his Govt.

Certainly for me,(and it was why I couldn't bring myself to vote Conservative in 2010),as to the NHS, the Conservatives and now also the Lib Dems can not be believed as to it or their word trusted either.

[michael21]

Why is my name in the title? I'm not even affected by bedroom tax :shrug:

Anyway if this ends up to be true then it's great news for those that are affected by it and those that have ended up in arrears through it all.

:wavey: hi mr Miliband

i agree it good news if true :dance:

[DanaC]

They should look at removing the proposed hard cap to benefits as well.

By having an absolute limit on the total benefits package, with nothing in place to limit rents, they place people wholly at the mercy of landlords.

£500 per week cap for a household sounds fine, until you take into account the soaring cost of rents. There's only so much economising a family can do. And the biggest cost to any family is something they have very little control over.

They sell it to the public on the grounds of 'fairness'. Why should people in work, possibly earning less than £500 per week, pay for families to live in houses they themselves could not afford. But the cost of implementing these changes is so much greater than any savings gained. Not to mention that many of those affected are in fact working.

Instead of ensuring that people on benefits remain poorer than people in work, they should be concentrating on ensuring that people in work are richer than people on benefits.

[Kizzy]

I agree, there was in the past legislation to protect those in the private rented sector from unscrupulous landlords, what happened to that?....
Maybe that's an area that could be looked at too before we go totally full circle to the good old bad old days of 'us and them'.

[Marc]

I hear Josy has celebrated by eating a whole tub of Ben and Jerry's

[Toy Soldier]

They should look at removing the proposed hard cap to benefits as well.

By having an absolute limit on the total benefits package, with nothing in place to limit rents, they place people wholly at the mercy of landlords.

£500 per week cap for a household sounds fine, until you take into account the soaring cost of rents. There's only so much economising a family can do. And the biggest cost to any family is something they have very little control over.

They sell it to the public on the grounds of 'fairness'. Why should people in work, possibly earning less than £500 per week, pay for families to live in houses they themselves could not afford. But the cost of implementing these changes is so much greater than any savings gained. Not to mention that many of those affected are in fact working.

Instead of ensuring that people on benefits remain poorer than people in work, they should be concentrating on ensuring that people in work are richer than people on benefits.

I agree, I don't disagree with the hard cap in principle because of how benefits for children work... I.e. a static increase "per child" that doesnt reflect the true financial situation. The financial hit of going from zero children to one child is massive... But the impact of adding a second child is much smaller, and a 3rd even less.

Also the hard cap is, at least, only on benefits and not on money earned on top of that (e.g. a family with someone earning 6k, the hard cap is 32k total not 26k).

HOWEVER, my problem with it is that it doesn't factor regional differences into it AT ALL. I lived in small-town Lancashire for a few years and the rent prices were pretty low... You could get a decent house for 450 pcm. Where I am now you can't really rent a family home for under 550... And in the south of England that'll barely get you a bedsit.

And yet... The cap is the same everywhere? How does that make sense? I personally think 26k after tax is ample to support even a larger family on... In areas where housing is reasonable. We were in a situation where people with 7, 8+ children were getting the equivalent of 50,000 or more which is genuinely ridiculous and unsustainable.

But if you're pumping out 1000 pounds a month on rent because of the area you live in, it must be nearly impossible on 26k? Not to mention that the cost of living in general is higher in London. The hard cap should take local housing averages into the equation. It's the only thing that makes sense.

[Kizzy]

That's why the cap was effectively considered social cleansing in the capital. Instead of solving social issues or looking at private rents and how out of line they are now they just ousted whole families splintering communities.
Creating an ever wider 'north/south' 'us/them' gulf.

[Kizzy]

That's why the cap was effectively considered social cleansing in the capital. Instead of solving social issues or looking at private rents and how out of line they are now they just ousted whole families splintering communities.
Creating an ever wider 'north/south' 'us/them' gulf.

[Kazanne]

Aren't we on the right road to recovery now? Ah well it'll all be for nothing if Milliband gets in,the least Labour should get is a leader that is believable.

[smudgie]

He's full of ****!

Could not have put it better.:hugesmile:

[Kizzy]

We haven't heard enough from him to make a rational decision yet I would say, what's the alternative? rock and hard place spring to mind haha!

[Kazanne]

We haven't heard enough from him to make a rational decision yet I would say, what's the alternative? rock and hard place spring to mind haha!

You hate me so much right now:hugesmile::joker::joker:

[Kizzy]

Lol! good job I love you or I might mess you up ;)

[Kazanne]

Lol! good job I love you or I might mess you up ;)

:hugesmile::hugesmile:HUGS

[Toy Soldier]

Aren't we on the right road to recovery now?

No, is the short answer.

[Toy Soldier]

We haven't heard enough from him to make a rational decision yet I would say, what's the alternative? rock and hard place spring to mind haha!

I think the main (perceived) problem with Ed Milliband is that he's more of an actual "Prime Minister" type - a boring figurehead that represents his party where necessary. In British politics we've become (too) used to "presidential" style PMs, pointless orators with their smarmy lies and ****-eating grins, like Tony Blair and David Cameron.

People want someone who can stand on a stage and speak with charisma - even if they blatantly don't give two hoots about people's actual lives. Men who just sort of do what they want, usually with their faithful Chancellor of the Exchequer bounding along behind them.

Welcome to the X-Factor generation. We might as well have a show called "Prime Minister Idol" where anyone can apply, and the result is purely down to who can spin the best yarn whilst keeping a straight face.

[Kizzy]

Haha! That's exactly it, great analogy :laugh:
For me being an intellectual realist wins over grinning bull****ter anyday :D

[joeysteele]

I think the main (perceived) problem with Ed Milliband is that he's more of an actual "Prime Minister" type - a boring figurehead that represents his party where necessary. In British politics we've become (too) used to "presidential" style PMs, pointless orators with their smarmy lies and ****-eating grins, like Tony Blair and David Cameron.

People want someone who can stand on a stage and speak with charisma - even if they blatantly don't give two hoots about people's actual lives. Men who just sort of do what they want, usually with their faithful Chancellor of the Exchequer bounding along behind them.

Welcome to the X-Factor generation. We might as well have a show called "Prime Minister Idol" where anyone can apply, and the result is purely down to who can spin the best yarn whilst keeping a straight face.

Really good post Toy Soldier, very appropriate too, Gordon Brown was well lost in the TV debates in the last election against the other 2.

I personally find it sad we have headed into that scenario but I somehow feel that Ed Miliband may yet surprise us.
I still hope we get reminded in the 2015 election of the broken pledges of very important policy that Nick Clegg promised and also that David Cameron will,against a stronger opposing figure in Ed Miliband, be exposed for his weaknesses as a leader and PM and aslo as someone who went back on his word a fair few times too.

I wouldn't trust David Cameron and cetrianly would never believe a thing Nick Clegg says,however I have no reason not to trust Ed Miliband although he is not a leader I particularly like, I am prepeared to give his party my vote in 2015.
I will be doing that because I feel only from him and Labour will policies be designed with compasson and fairness,especially as to welfare reform.
For me on that issue along with the NHS too, these 2, Cameron and Clegg have lost any moral ground as to those policies and in all truth cannot and should not be trusted again.

[Toy Soldier]

I think Ed Milliband has the unfortunate drawback of his face. Seriously - might sound flippant but I think people's opinions of him are coloured by the fact that he sort of looks like a 6th form head boy who has decided to come in on the debate... Hes a bit babyfaced and so its near impossible for him to have an air of authority.

Unfortunately people are swayed by that sort of surface, superficial stuff that actually doesn't really have any bearing at all on whether the person represents good policies.

I think any opposition leader is in a tight spot at the moment... People are wary because theyre not committing to much but they're rightfully steering clear of making too many promises specifically because that's what the condems did before the last election, before proceeding to break all of them. If the current opposition, who are likely to get in next time, make too many promises and then go back on them... then the pendulum will simply keep swinging - with voters losing faith and gaining political apathy each time round. Why bother voting for any party at all if they might go against every reason you voted for them?

That's why it took Labour so long to pledge to reverse bedroom tax - they wanted to be all but positive that they had an actual workable plan to reverse it before committing to that. It would have been very easy for them to condemn it as soon as it came into force and promised straight away to abolish it should they get in... But promising it and then not being able to deliver would have been a disaster. For that reason I don't think we will see HUGE or outlandish promises from them... And I don't think that's a bad thing. At least it's honest.

[Kizzy]

I think it's been beneficial in a sense to hold this juicy info back in a way, as I feel it will be part of the crescendo of his speech, which is beginning on BBC2 now.

[Livia]

I notice he didn't mention the monumental cluster-******* that turned out to be the previous Labour government's economic policies. I expect they've sorted all that out now, and if they do get in and inherit a stronger economy than they left, they'll just run it into the ground again. And again. And again.

[Kizzy]

I have no idea what a 'cluster****' is.....
The leader has changed, I don't know if anyones noticed?
Are we ever to be forward thinking? Could anyone say they don't want what he suggested?
Could anyone hand on heart say, in the last 3yrs changes implemented by this government have been beneficial to the public?... I don't think so.

[Toy Soldier]

I notice he didn't mention the monumental cluster-******* that turned out to be the previous Labour government's economic policies. I expect they've sorted all that out now, and if they do get in and inherit a stronger economy than they left, they'll just run it into the ground again. And again. And again.

The recession was global, it affected literally every single western nation. It was quite obviously not caused by any one government. And as much ad the Tories would live to take credit for the now (apparently) stronger economy... Again, the issue has been global and it's been a gradual global recovery. if anything, they've arguably held it back from being as strong a recovery as it could have been.

[Kizzy]

The recession was global, it affected literally every single western nation. It was quite obviously not caused by any one government. And as much ad the Tories would live to take credit for the now (apparently) stronger economy... Again, the issue has been global and it's been a gradual global recovery. if anything, they've arguably held it back from being as strong a recovery as it could have been.

Hey! don't you come around here talking all that sense stuff! :laugh:

[joeysteele]

I do have some small reservations as to Ed Miliband,however as with last year I was impressed with his Conference speech today.
He has a better vision of the Country as a whole and it is time that David Cameron and this Coalition Govt were stopped from attacking the weakest and poorest while pandering to the strongest.

Whatever else, Ed Miliband's Labour is now far more on my wavelength,I am sick of the nastiness and the heartless sledgehammer being used against the most vulnerable of this Country and even more furious at the chaos created in the NHS by this Govts unwelcome and badly thought out reforms too.

I found myself nodding in agreement all through this speech today and I was even more impressed with the outlined policies.
Now though watch the energy Companies start screaming after them being able to rip people off left,right and centre for years now,another good move by him on that one too.
All good moves,the scrapping of the hated bedroom tax/charge and also his plans for the NHS again too.
An impressive and I believe sincere speech,he has my vote for sure.

I also am beginning to believe that Ed Miliband will actually surprise and do really well too in the leaders debates.
Well,that is if David Cameron decides to do them again as I understand he is not very enthusiastic as to taking part in them in 2015.
One wonders why.

[Livia]

The recession was global, it affected literally every single western nation. It was quite obviously not caused by any one government. And as much ad the Tories would live to take credit for the now (apparently) stronger economy... Again, the issue has been global and it's been a gradual global recovery. if anything, they've arguably held it back from being as strong a recovery as it could have been.

Yes the recession was global, but Labour undoubtedly compounded the problem by the hopelessly mismanaged cluster-******* (look it up) they allude to as "the economy". Even Labour themselves admit that they messed up and added to the problems, but some of their supporters continue to be in denial and absolve Labour of all responsibility of their mishandling the economy with the cry "it was a global recession"... and that's kind of scary.

Gordon Brown, economist extraordinaire, sold our entire gold reserves at the lowest price Gold had been for decades. Just one instance of their total ineptitude... I could go on but you'd probably gloss over it. Ed Miliband, the man who shafted his own brother to get his job, was instrumental in Brown's Treasury, and now he's in charge of the whole party. Either he's learned an awful lot in three years, or Labour will drag us into the same spiral that's been recurring for decades: Labour get in and spend the money leaving the economy in ruins, Tories take over and the economy improves, Labour get in again and spends all the money... etc. etc. etc.

[anne666]

I am in my sixties and there has never been a Labour Government which has left power without creating an economic disaster. Of course the last one was the most monumental. It gets worse every time so God knows what they will do next.

[anne666]

Yes the recession was global, but Labour undoubtedly compounded the problem by the hopelessly mismanaged cluster-******* (look it up) they allude to as "the economy". Even Labour themselves admit that they messed up and added to the problems, but some of their supporters continue to be in denial and absolve Labour of all responsibility of their mishandling the economy with the cry "it was a global recession"... and that's kind of scary.

Gordon Brown, economist extraordinaire, sold our entire gold reserves at the lowest price Gold had been for decades. Just one instance of their total ineptitude... I could go on but you'd probably gloss over it. Ed Miliband, the man who shafted his own brother to get his job, was instrumental in Brown's Treasury, and now he's in charge of the whole party. Either he's learned an awful lot in three years, or Labour will drag us into the same spiral that's been recurring for decades: Labour get in and spend the money leaving the economy in ruins, Tories take over and the economy improves, Labour get in again and spends all the money... etc. etc. etc.
This, sorry you'd already covered what I've just said.

[Kizzy]

There hasn't been a tory government that hasn't taken a chainsaw to the postwar infrastructure so painstakingly built... Name one area that hasn't been carved up, privatised,outsourced,disassembled or laid waste?
All great and powerful industry this country was once considered 'great' for... gone.
Using the media to control the public, destroying the reputation of public services to fit their agenda?
More clusterbomb than cluster**** I'd say.

[Vicky.]

In short, the main parties are all ****, none know what the hell they are doing. And the best thing they all (and their supporters too) do is play the blame game. Its what most politicians are best for, shifting blame around, while gaining themselves a few backhanders along the way.

Hell, if the coalition managed to stay on for a few more terms..I bet they would still be blaming labour for their own **** ups.

We need a new party to be honest.

Still, good on Miliband for having a bit of sense when it comes to this ridiculous and cruel policy though.