Homeless/jobless man stole food from Asda...

[Ammi]

Penniless Jan Vlcek stole from Asda after he found himself jobless, homeless and denied benefits.


Vlcek, of Harlaxton Road, Grantham, admitted stealing £70.13 worth of goods from Asda on August 27.

Chris Pye-Smith, defending, said: “What is significant about this offence is he had been out of work for nearly two months but had been able to claim Job Seekers’ Allowance and had been doing so but unfortunately he lost his accommodation and was living on the streets for nine days.

“During that period he missed an appointment at the job centre, so the DWP sanctioned his benefits for a month so he was completely without income for four weeks. He took these items for his personal use.”

Chairman of magistrates Amanda Brown said: “In view of those circumstances, we are making a conditional discharge for 12 months.”

Vlcek must pay a £15 surcharge, but was spared costs

[Toy Soldier]

JSA sanctions are utterly ridiculous, they seem to operate on the assumption that people will have some sort of money aside to actually LIVE for a month when most people just don't. They need the money to eat. If you end up sanctioned, which they will find any excuse to do, and you don't have family to fall back on then I don't see what option there is but to turn to crime?

[joeysteele]

I don't approve of shoplifting at all, however when you see what Supermarkets actually throw out at the end of the day as to foodstuffs it can be really obscene when people are in need.
What people steal gives away a lot as to their plight when doing so,in this case this guy went for food I would suppose.

As Toy Soldier says, it is inevitable with the changes to benefits and the actually more confusing elements to them,(rather than simplifying them), that people will turn to crime at times.
I learned of a situation the other week, where someone was deemed too fit for ESA so couldn't get it, however they were deemed not fit enough to claim Jobseekers allowance.
The result was until there was a decision either way, they got no money at all.
What a ridiculous farce and disgusting position to put anyone in.

I am glad this case was dealt with leniently and hope the guy gets some real and substantial help soon.

[Livia]

Firstly, what was he doing that was so important he missed an appointment at the Job Centre? I have never claimed unemployment, but I'm aware if you miss an appointment they stop your money. Secondly... we've got a lot of people living on the streets who get nothing, not a penny in benefits, some of them are people who've served their country in the forces, so forgive me if I don't have to wipe away a tear for Jan Vlcek.

[Vanessa]

If you miss one appointment they only stop your benefit for one week. It happened to me, when I was on benefits. I showed up on the wrong date. :blush2:

[Kizzy]

This is a really sad story of hardship, however it does set a dangerous precedent...
Will this be used again and again in cases of theft?
If you have no money there are organisations set up to help, if he had no home where did he put £70 worth of food?

[joeysteele]

If he took food related goods then I still am glad he was treated leniently, although it is not an action I think can or should be tolerated.

No one should miss an appointment,without good reason, at a jobcentre especially in the climate created by this Govt.
However it states he missed an appointment while he was homeless,was he advised of the day of time of the appointment and how did they tell him if he was homeless.
Did a letter go to the address he had lived at, where if he was not there he could hardly have got it.

I asked someone who is looking for work how they found the jobcentre practices, they said it is fine when it all goes smoothly, however he has had letters saying his appointment has been brought forward with the new appointment being on the same day or the day after he got the letter.
That is equally ridiculous,however had he not gone, he may have had a suspension of some or all of his benefits.
Like everything else, some common sense and compromise could be evident, from most of what I have heard though, I hope I never have to deal with a jobcentre.

Clearly though whover judged this man's case in Court, felt a need for leniency and they would have been in full possession of all the facts relating to it and likely checked them out too.
So I won't condemn this guy in light of that judgement.

[Mrluvaluva]

I sympathise with the guy, but it beggars belief how he stole £70 of stuff. That's like a weekly shop. It's not just a couple of tins down your pants. Either he was stocking up or he has expensive taste.

Some of the rules when claiming JSA are ridiculous. If he had a valid reason for missing his appointment though maybe he should have advised them before the appointment so he could re-schedule? I know there are some ogres/jobsworths that work in these places though.

One of the things I found most incredulous about jobseekers, is that when you start a job, your benefits stop immediately. If you start a new position at the start of the month, and don't get paid until the end of the month, how do they expect people to last 4 weeks with no money? There seems to be no support for people once they find a job, they're just glad to get the numbers down.

[Vanessa]

I sympathise with the guy, but it beggars belief how he stole £70 of stuff. That's like a weekly shop. It's not just a couple of tins down your pants. Either he was stocking up or he has expensive taste.

Some of the rules when claiming JSA are ridiculous. If he had a valid reason for missing his appointment though maybe he should have advised them before the appointment so he could re-schedule? I know there are some ogres/jobsworths that work in these places though.

One of the things I found most incredulous about jobseekers, is that when you start a job, your benefits stop immediately. If you start a new position at the start of the month, and don't get paid until the end of the month, how do they expect people to last 4 weeks with no money? There seems to be no support for people once they find a job, they're just glad to get the numbers down.

When I was on benefits they paid me just until the day before I started my new job. Some people from the jobcentre were horrible, but others were very supportive. :)

[Jesus.]

I'd have bought it for him. Supermarkets are absolute ******s. Price fixing, under cutting local shops by buying in mass contracts. I don't believe the government should ever have the right to stop people from receiving enough money to eat. The only alternative in that scenario is crime.

[Toy Soldier]

I was only very briefly on benefits, 4 and a half years ago for 6 months, but even then it was bloody stressful. My girlfriend was pregnant, we had both just finished University so literally HAD to move (from student accommodation) and so we moved to her home town to be near her family. They wanted to sanction JSA for 4 MONTHS because I had "voluntarily" left the job I had while at University... 400 miles away. Thankfully we appealed it and it was overruled but seriously no idea what we were supposed to do... Our families weren't in a position to support us, we had a baby on the way, and zero money.

Was only on JSA for 6 months in total but it's 6 months I'd rather forget. The jobsearch meetings are a frustrating shambles (they wanted me to go to an interview to be a sous chef in a 4 star hotel because I had previously worked in a pub kitchen) and the staff are painfully patronising.

And this was before the Tory government got in and made it even harder. I have no doubt the appeal would have failed under the current system. Doesn't bear thinking about, really. I certainly can't say I'd have had any moral issue with stealing food for us.

[Kazanne]

This is a really sad story of hardship, however it does set a dangerous precedent...
Will this be used again and again in cases of theft?
If you have no money there are organisations set up to help, if he had no home where did he put £70 worth of food?

that's the first thing I thought of Kizzy,lol,ok if he was hungry a pie or something,but £70 worth,seems a bit strange.

[Vicky.]

Sanctions are just disgraceful IMO. I dont know what else could be used to deter people from taking the piss, but this is not the right way to do it. Especially when they tend to be doled out like sweeties if your advisor hasnt met their sanction targets. I know someone who was sanctioned for taking their kid to hospital from school (on advice of the teachers, had a head bump) and thus missed their appointment. It did get overruled, but not before she went 2 weeks with **** all. Disgusting.

That said, I fail to see how this man can justify nicking 70 quids worth of food? That much lasts me and gav 2 weeks. I sympathize with his situation, but 70 quid really takes the mick tbh.

[King Gizzard]

Sanctions are just disgraceful IMO. I dont know what else could be used to deter people from taking the piss, but this is not the right way to do it. Especially when they tend to be doled out like sweeties if your advisor hasnt met their sanction targets. I know someone who was sanctioned for taking their kid to hospital from school (on advice of the teachers, had a head bump) and thus missed their appointment. It did get overruled, but not before she went 2 weeks with **** all. Disgusting.

That said, I fail to see how this man can justify nicking 70 quids worth of food? That much lasts me and gav 2 weeks. I sympathize with his situation, but 70 quid really takes the mick tbh.

They're automatic if you miss an appointment too, no time to explain yourself (from what I've heard from people anyway)

You can't just take someone off of money completely and expect them to cope, sure they should be punished if it's something that could have been avoided, but not by completely stopping money

and if I'm correct it's 4 weeks not a week for most sanctions, and that's just the base sanction, can be like 12 weeks

[Vanessa]

They're automatic if you miss an appointment too, no time to explain yourself (from what I've heard from people anyway)

You can't just take someone off of money completely and expect them to cope, sure they should be punished if it's something that could have been avoided, but not by completely stopping money

and if I'm correct it's 4 weeks not a week for most sanctions, and that's just the base sanction, can be like 12 weeks

Not sure. They only stopped my money for a week after I missed one appointment. But that was more than 5 years ago.

[King Gizzard]

yep, changed alot since then I can assure you :laugh:

[Vicky.]

Can be sanctioned for up to 2 years now apparently.

[King Gizzard]

that's if you completely stop going altogether they won't let you back on for at least 2 years

no idea how I know all this Lol