Madeleine McCann: British man arrested in the hunt for missing girl

[Josy]

The dramatic arrest of a Brit in the hunt for Madeleine McCann has been described as “potentially highly significant”.

It has boosted the hopes of the missing youngster’s anguished parents Kate and Gerry.

A source close to the couple said: “The arrest only happened as a result of a claim that Madeleine may still be alive.”

The suspect was held in a swoop by Greater Manchester Police after the Sunday Mirror last week revealed that a man bragged about seeing Madeleine alive just weeks ago.

A respected barrister told us the man boasted to him that he had met the child on a Mediterranean island. It was claimed Maddie was “introduced” to the man this summer.

It is understood that the Manchester officers who made the arrest also seized computers from a private address and sent them for forensic examination.

Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange team have been handed the barrister’s detailed statement, which is rated as “high up on the credibility scale”.

The Yard officers had reopened the probe into the disappearance of Madeleine, then aged three, from the McCanns’ holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.

The dramatic twist in the inquiry comes as Kate and Gerry, both 45, prepare to appear in a Crimewatch appeal on BBC1 tomorrow night.

It is understood they are being kept fully briefed on developments.

We told last week how the barrister went to police after being told of the Maddie sighting.

Tourist resorts popular with Brits are now thought to feature in the active inquiry. A family source confirmed last night: “This is high up on the credibility scale.

"The barrister did the right thing by going to police. His information has gone into the Operation Grange system and I know they are working on it.


Read more here
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-british-man-arrested-2366183


Would be one of the biggest shocks ever if this girl had to be found alive.

[Me. I Am Salman]

I hope they find her this time :'(

[Marc]

Obviously I hope she's alive but I think she's dead...

[user104658]

Read more here
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-british-man-arrested-2366183


Would be one of the biggest shocks ever if this girl had to be found alive.

To be fair it wouldn't be the first time, far from it, and sometimes after much longer than this. I remember reading about a girl who was held by some guy for over a decade and he started to think of her as his friend or a family member, and one day out with her in his car, he left her alone and went into a station to pay for petrol. At which point, obviously, she bolted to the nearest police station. And there were those three women recently who were freed from a basement after several years.

But it would probably be a bigger shock purely because of how high-profile this case has been, I suppose.

[Z]

Stranger things have happened, as Toy Soldier said in the post above, it would be remarkable if she was found alive and it would be an amazing thing to happen... I just hope that her life isn't ruined by all of this, she's 9 years old now, she's at an age where she will remember things that have happened to her...

[Gstar]

I think she's alive

[lostalex]

Obviously I hope she's alive but I think she's dead...

i think so too :(

they say if you don't solve a crime in the first 48 hours, it's probably not going to be solved.

[Vicky.]

It was claimed Maddie was “introduced” to the man this summer.

Doesnt sound good to me at all.

If by some slim chance shes not dead (accident that parents covered up) and I have been wrong for years..and this story is true, that one line alone makes it sound like she has been used for dodgy stuff.

[lostalex]

but like we saw here in America a few months ago, girls that were missing for 10 years were found, so i guess you can never give up hope.

I think she's dead though, especially because of the media attention around it. Whoever snatched her, i'm sure they killed her and disposed of the body long ago. It's very rare for anyone to be found after this much time as gone by.

Honestly i hope she is dead, because if she's not, it means she's probably in some type of sexual slavery, which, at least for me, i'd rather be dead than being used as a sex slave for this long of time. i think at this point it might be a better thing for her to be dead than to think of the horrors she would have endured for this long.

sometimes death is better.

[Shaun]

Part of me hopes she is indeed dead, just to save her from the inevitable public eye scrutiny if she's survived... can imagine all of the crazy paps trying to bag the first photo, and shoddy journalists speculating what happened to her and how ****ed up she would be :(

[lostalex]

She was so young when she was taken, she might not even know that she is Madeline McCann. She was so young, she probably has no idea. She might even see news stories about herself on TV and not even realize that it is her.

[Ammi]

..I don't understand from that article how they think she may be still alive though..?..just that they have arrested someone who might have taken her...

[Marsh.]

..I don't understand from that article how they think she may be still alive though..?..just that they have arrested someone who might have taken her...

It says she was introduced to the arrested man in summer?

[GypsyGoth]

Doesnt sound good to me at all.

If by some slim chance shes not dead (accident that parents covered up) and I have been wrong for years..and this story is true, that one line alone makes it sound like she has been used for dodgy stuff.

I agree, it sounds like she might have had a horrid existence.


And like you I kinda thought the parents had something to do with her death.

[Ammi]

It says she was introduced to the arrested man in summer?

..yeah but I wonder why they think he kept her alive..what evidence they have, maybe..?...

[MTVN]

Don't think the guy they arrested is supposed to have taken her, just to have seen her once last year

[Z]

All these sightings must be so frustrating for her family

[Ammi]

All these sightings must be so frustrating for her family

..yeah they must, every time getting their hopes up and then in the past coming to nothing..just that roller coaster of emotions, it must be almost too much to bear..I just cannot imagine how they feel and what their lives are..but I do understand that they feel they have to have some kind of closure or answers obviously....

[Nedusa]

I think this is more red herrings , it will turn out to be another fruitless lead. This adds oxygen to the kidnap story and keeps the bulk of the public thinking along those lines.

I think her parents know far more than they will ever tell and welcome baseless stories like these.

I hope she is alive but fear she died by accident that night and the rest of this is a panic reaction that has resulted in this abduction story.

[Kazanne]

I hope the police are doing the same for Ben Needham and others that have gone missing

[Marsh.]

I think this is more red herrings , it will turn out to be another fruitless lead. This adds oxygen to the kidnap story and keeps the bulk of the public thinking along those lines.

I think her parents know far more than they will ever tell and welcome baseless stories like these.

I hope she is alive but fear she died by accident that night and the rest of this is a panic reaction that has resulted in this abduction story.

If that was the case, they'd have let the case die down years ago surely?

It's the parents who have kept the case in the limelight 6 years on.

[Kizzy]

Wow it would be wonderful to find her.

[Ninastar]

If that was the case, they'd have let the case die down years ago surely?

It's the parents who have kept the case in the limelight 6 years on.

that's what i always wonder too

[Niamh.]

Doesnt sound good to me at all.

If by some slim chance shes not dead (accident that parents covered up) and I have been wrong for years..and this story is true, that one line alone makes it sound like she has been used for dodgy stuff.

Wasn't there some rumours about something like that already? From a friend of the the couples that were on holiday?

[Nedusa]

Read more here
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-british-man-arrested-2366183


Would be one of the biggest shocks ever if this girl had to be found alive.

Where are you getting this information from ? I have not heard of any arrests being made in connection with this case. Or if an arrest has been made it has not been made public as of today Monday 14th October.

Where are you getting this news from ??

[Jesus.]

I hate to say this, but Maddie is 99% sure to be dead. The size of the appeal, and the worldwide interest shown in the case would have made it too dangerous for the kidnapper to keep her alive. She's more than likely buried in some remote Portuguese hills/countryside.

I'm not a parent, but I think I'd prefer to think of my child as passed away, rather than being in the hands of a paedophile ring for the last x number of years. I also think that how they left their young children alone in that apartment that night was verging on a criminal act in itself.

[Niamh.]

I hate to say this, but Maddie is 99% sure to be dead. The size of the appeal, and the worldwide interest shown in the case would have made it too dangerous for the kidnapper to keep her alive. She's more than likely buried in some remote Portuguese hills/countryside.

I'm not a parent, but I think I'd prefer to think of my child as passed away, rather than being in the hands of a paedophile ring for the last x number of years. I also think that how they left their young children alone in that apartment that night was verging on a criminal act in itself.

I think as a parent I would just want to know one way or another, the not knowing is worse than anything else. And I agree completely about your last point, beggers belief that they thought it was ok to do that, my son is 9 and if he woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't find me or Gav he would freak out, never mind kids as young as Maddie and the twins

[Ammi]

I think as a parent I would just want to know one way or another, the not knowing is worse than anything else. And I agree completely about your last point, beggers belief that they thought it was ok to do that, my son is 9 and if he woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't find me or Gav he would freak out, never mind kids as young as Maddie and the twins

..yeah, I think I would have to get closure and in a strange way any closure would probably be less to come to terms with than what my mind would 'invent' through not knowing...and I also cannot imagine leaving children of those ages alone, but that's something that they have had to live with and maybe a sense of guilt about that drives them to keep searching as well and never to believe she could be dead..?...

[Vicky.]

The crimewatch program on tonight. Wonder if it will answer any of the unanswered questions..doubt it somehow.

[MTVN]

Where are you getting this information from ? I have not heard of any arrests being made in connection with this case. Or if an arrest has been made it has not been made public as of today Monday 14th October.

Where are you getting this news from ??

Well it was reported in the Mirror as the OP links to, although police are now denying that an arrest was made (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-deny-manchester-man-held-6180591)

Police have denied that a Manchester man was arrested in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The man reportedly made claims at a house party in Manchester that he had seen missing Madeleine earlier this summer.

It was claimed that he was arrested over the alleged comments after a report from a witness, a barrister, who heard him.

But Greater Manchester Police have 'categorically' denied any link between the arrest and Madeleine, saying it had 'nothing to do' with the continuing investigation into the youngster's whereabouts.

A GMP spokesman told the M.E.N.: “I can categorically say that no one has been arrested as part of the Madeleine McCann investigation.

“It has nothing to do with Madeleine McCann, that's all I can say.”

[Ammi]

The crimewatch program on tonight. Wonder if it will answer any of the unanswered questions..doubt it somehow.

..how weird about the timing of the programme and all this new information/arrests being a few days apart after all of these years...

[Vicky.]

..how weird about the timing of the programme and all this new information/arrests being a few days apart after all of these years...

Almost as weird as the new info coming out right when Kates book was due out last time...

[Ammi]

Almost as weird as the new info coming out right when Kates book was due out last time...

..what was that new info, Vicky..the last time..?...

[arista]

This is the £5million UK grant money being used
and BBC.


But end result - No Change

[arista]

..what was that new info, Vicky..the last time..?...



Guess work

[Vicky.]

..what was that new info, Vicky..the last time..?...

IIRC it was about a reconstruction the police apparently wanted to do that the McCanns said no to. Got the case back in the papers just in time for her book release.

[Ammi]

IIRC it was about a reconstruction the police apparently wanted to do that the McCanns said no to. Got the case back in the papers just in time for her book release.

...of someone taking Madeleine then..?..I don't know, it's just the strangest of cases, my family and I were talking about it at the weekend and as much as there are things that make you think that her parents could know more..that also doesn't make any sense either and how they've wanted it to be high profile...

[Niamh.]

...of someone taking Madeleine then..?..I don't know, it's just the strangest of cases, my family and I were talking about it at the weekend and as much as there are things that make you think that her parents could know more..that also doesn't make any sense either and how they've wanted it to be high profile...

Unfortunately I don't think anyone is ever going to know the truth besides whoever was responsible :(

[Ammi]

Unfortunately I don't anyone is ever going to know the truth besides whoever was responsible :(

..as a parent, that not knowing would rule my whole life I think...but they have got two other children so I guess that helps to focus them....

[Vicky.]

...of someone taking Madeleine then..?..I don't know, it's just the strangest of cases, my family and I were talking about it at the weekend and as much as there are things that make you think that her parents could know more..that also doesn't make any sense either and how they've wanted it to be high profile...

Just a reconstruction of that night I think. To jog memories.

My main question about all of this was the whole 'they've taken her' thing. What a strange thing to say when you discover your child is missing.

A lot of questions raised in that police dudes book too. I know he was arrested over it but I refuse to believe he just randomly made stuff up http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/

[Jesus.]

If you haven't already reported what you know about that night/time when she was taken, then another documentary however many years later isn't going to do it either.

Feed the grief of the family, make a programme about it.

[Ammi]

Just a reconstruction of that night I think. To jog memories.

My main question about all of this was the whole 'they've taken her' thing. What a strange thing to say when you discover your child is missing.

A lot of questions raised in that police dudes book too. I know he was arrested over it but I refuse to believe he just randomly made stuff up http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/

..hmmm, yeah..I agree the 'they've taken her' thing seemed very odd at the time...but if they accidently hurt her..?...then could spend time with friends and those friends not see them agitated and they behaved perfectly normally..?..I can't get my head around that either...people would have noticed a difference in their behaviour if they had found their daughter dead...yet no one has said they did to my knowledge..?...

[Z]

..hmmm, yeah..I agree the 'they've taken her' thing seemed very odd at the time...but if they accidently hurt her..?...then could spend time with friends and those friends not see them agitated and they behaved perfectly normally..?..I can't get my head around that either...people would have noticed a difference in their behaviour if they had found their daughter dead...yet no one has said they did to my knowledge..?...

I've never really known what I believe about the case... but I like to think that they are innocent and she was sadly taken. I think perhaps they had seen someone shady watching them, someone scouting the family, and thought it was strange at the time but didn't feel overly concerned about it, just some person staring at them. If you don't deem a face important, you don't remember specifically what it looks like if you've only seen it once - perhaps they know what this person looks like or perhaps they can't remember.

Of course, they could have accidentally killed her, hidden the body, prepared what to say and gone to dinner... but I doubt they could have acted totally normally and sat through dinner if they'd just killed their daughter, somebody would have said they were acting suspiciously. I think they just made a tragic, tragic mistake.

People often use the fact that their other children weren't taken as proof that she wasn't taken... but if the person/people who took her was acting on orders to kidnap a 3 year old girl for adoption or for sexual slavery, then they were doing a job, which explains a lot.

I wonder if their other children have any memories of that night or of Madeleine... they must be about 7 years old now?

[Vicky.]

..hmmm, yeah..I agree the 'they've taken her' thing seemed very odd at the time...but if they accidently hurt her..?...then could spend time with friends and those friends not see them agitated and they behaved perfectly normally..?..I can't get my head around that either...people would have noticed a difference in their behaviour if they had found their daughter dead...yet no one has said they did to my knowledge..?...

Well my belief is that they either overdosed her accidentally on sedatives. Or she had a fall/accident while they were out. They panicked on finding her dead, and there comes this abduction story.

There wouldn't have been a difference in their behaviour as at the time they were with friends, they didnt know anything was wrong. If that makes sense.

[Ammi]

Well my belief is that they either overdosed her accidentally on sedatives. Or she had a fall/accident while they were out. They panicked on finding her dead, and there comes this abduction story.

There wouldn't have been a difference in their behaviour as at the time they were with friends, they didnt know anything was wrong. If that makes sense.

..yeah it does make sense, that they didn't 'discover' until after dinner when they went back...I'm not sure I'm convinced by the 'overdose/sedative' theory because they're both doctors and would know how much to give her...I also don't believe that they would first decide to give her it in a foreign country just so they could have dinner with friends, unless they had done it before and knew it to be 'safe' and that she wouldn't wake up...also, I don't think the younger ones had any traces of it in them, surely they would have tested for that if that was their theory...because why just give it to Madeleine...and the fall part, well yeah that could happen that she woke up but again, they would know the right dose so she didn't and even then to conceal her body somewhere, where it hasn't been found and do the 'someone's taken her' bit seems just too 'cold/calculated' for two ordinary people whose daughter had just died...

[Jesus.]

I don't think they killed her, either accidentally or otherwise. In any situation, the simplest explanation is often the correct one. If they were going to concoct an abduction story, why create one that makes them look like terrible parents?

[Vicky.]

I don't think they killed her, either accidentally or otherwise. In any situation, the simplest explanation is often the correct one. If they were going to concoct an abduction story, why create one that makes them look like terrible parents?

Because it would obviously have came out that they did leave the kids alone so they could get pissed? As people would have seen them all out..

[Z]

The main thing to remember is that whenever a person goes into shock, the things they say and do often aren't logical and don't often make sense. People say things that don't mean anything but can often have a retrospective meaning added on to it. If they accidentally killed her, they'd be in shock; if she fell, hurt herself and died, they'd be in shock; if they went to dinner, came back and found her missing, they'd be in shock.

Whatever happened to Madeleine McCann, I don't believe her parents are murderers. They didn't kill her in cold blood, nor did they set out to kill her at all. I think she was just kidnapped and they were irresponsible by going out for dinner and leaving the kids unattended... but it could have happened if they were asleep in the same room too - it happened even though they thought the kids were safe; presumably they wouldn't have done anything more to make the room safe if they had been in there too.

[Vicky.]

I expect they wouldnt have left the patio door open had they been asleep in the room with the kids

Something else that doesn't make much sense to me..why do that when you know kids are in the room. Would it not make more sense to lock it? :S

[Z]

I expect they wouldnt have left the patio door open had they been asleep in the room with the kids

Something else that doesn't make much sense to me..why do that when you know kids are in the room. Would it not make more sense to lock it? :S

I dunno, I think they would have - they were confident enough that the room was safe as it was, I'd guess they left it open to let air into the room. It is all very strange, they must beat themselves up every day going over it in their minds about what they should and shouldn't have done to prevent that situation from unfolding.

[Ammi]

Because it would obviously have came out that they did leave the kids alone so they could get pissed? As people would have seen them all out..

..I just remembered one of the things I thought was a little 'odd'...not about the night she went missing but the part I saw of tonight's interview with them...when they said that the time they felt her absence most was at 'family gatherings/birthdays..'...I get that completely and the first few years are difficult but in a way you kind of know that's going to happen so you build and strengthen your emotions for it and it's still hard and sad and that person is very much missed...but the time that I think and feel a loss most is those things you don't expect..just everyday things..something someone says/something you watch on TV/the way a certain person says something etc..and it can remind you/bring associations that almost floor you because you didn't see it coming...do you know what I mean..?...if we're talking about what 'expected behaviour' would be..not you and I but in general in this case...that's what I as a parent/daughter would 'expect' them to have said....

[Vicky.]

I just cannot get over the whole sniffer dog thing either. And the excuses they have been said to have come out with for the dog detecting corpse/blood in their apartment and on clothes and such.

I know thats not totally conclusive as someone else could easily have died in the apartment or there could be loads of explanations for why the dogs could smell death/blood on Kates clothes..but with all of the other inconsistencies and such..well..

[Ammi]

I just cannot get over the whole sniffer dog thing either. And the excuses they have been said to have come out with for the dog detecting corpse/blood in their apartment and on clothes and such.

I know thats not totally conclusive as someone else could easily have died in the apartment or there could be loads of explanations for why the dogs could smell death/blood on Kates clothes..but with all of the other inconsistencies and such..well..

..I honestly don't think we'll ever know anything more and the reason it can't be 'solved' is that it's too much of a jumble of inconsistencies and confusion...and I understand that Kate and Gerry need answers but it kind of makes me wonder how much police resources should be used on something which probably won't ever be resolved...

[Vicky.]

I think I will leave this now as I will end up waffling on forever.

I honestly hope something comes of the new investigations and my thoughts are totally wrong, but I highly doubt it.

[Ammi]

..yeah, I'm done as well..I'll probably watch tonight but there isn't really anything else to say atm...for Kate and Gerry's sake I hope it's resolved but also for Madeleine's....

[Kazanne]

I see her parents especially Kate as looking 'sad' on TV,I want to feel for her but I just cannot,WHO on earth would sod off for a meal with 3 babies left alone?leave doors open and not even search for days for her? I don't know what happened but I do think they should have been 'done' for neglect,too late now,but, I just cant feel sorry for them.The only person I feel sorry for is Madeliene.

[user104658]

I just cannot get over the whole sniffer dog thing either. And the excuses they have been said to have come out with for the dog detecting corpse/blood in their apartment and on clothes and such.

I know thats not totally conclusive as someone else could easily have died in the apartment or there could be loads of explanations for why the dogs could smell death/blood on Kates clothes..but with all of the other inconsistencies and such..well..

There's so much that makes no sense. She washed her stuffed toy rabbit with the excuse that it was dirty. It doesn't "fit" a grieving psychology at all... in fact most grieving parents would want to leave anything that belonged to the child exactly as it was left.

The sniffer dogs too, were two of the best sniffer dogs available to the UK police and their handler pointed out that they had -never-, in several years working, made an error but the McCanns became quite agitated about the situation and set out specifically to discredit what the dogs found. I remember they used excuses that experts then said would not have caused the error - and upon hearing that, the explanation changed again.

SOMETHING doesn't add up, about their behaviour and about the story. Trying to come up with explanations is only guesswork but I'm confident that there's more too it than they've ever revealed.

Then again, I can't even begin to understand the mindset of any parent who would leave their toddlers alone to go out like they did. I just can't even imagine the thought process behind it. in my eyes even if she was snatched and it had nothing to do with them, they are at the very least guilty of gross negligence. But you're "not supposed to say that", you're supposed to say it could have happened to anyone. Except it couldn't. having a child kidnapped, yes. in these circumstances, good god no. I'd HOPE most parents would never dream of leaving their children alone like that, ever, let alone in a holiday apartment in a foreign country.

[Josy]

Where are you getting this information from ? I have not heard of any arrests being made in connection with this case. Or if an arrest has been made it has not been made public as of today Monday 14th October.

Where are you getting this news from ??

The link is in the post you quoted....

[arista]

I see her parents especially Kate as looking 'sad' on TV,I want to feel for her but I just cannot,WHO on earth would sod off for a meal with 3 babies left alone?leave doors open and not even search for days for her? I don't know what happened but I do think they should have been 'done' for neglect,too late now,but, I just cant feel sorry for them.The only person I feel sorry for is Madeliene.


Doctors in a high grade.


Also not wanting to pay for a sitter
Saving the Money


Great Post KAZ

[Samm]

I really do hope that Madeleine is alive and find who ever done it

[Kazanne]

Doctors in a high grade.


Also not wanting to pay for a sitter
Saving the Money


Great Post KAZ

Thankyou Arista,I want to feel sorry for them,I just cant.

[Nedusa]

Just heard breaking news on Sky British police officers have arrived in Algarve and have 3 suspects they wish to question connected with Mobile phone records..

A real lead at last in this case of just more of same tired old non news story designed to forever keep this one story in the publics minds ??

[Z]

Why on earth is this being broadcast on the news? If there are any guilty people they want to interview no doubt they'll all disappear before they can be found. Just think this is more of the same non-news. The case is however many years old and cold now, I don't see them ever solving it unless her body turns up accidentally or she escapes from captivity.

[HD]

I believe the parents killed her.
Always have, probably always will.

How have they not been done for neglect either!?
I bet if they were two commoners on a council estate they'd be banged up in hours.

http://madnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/efits.jpg
bye.

[arista]

Why on earth is this being broadcast on the news? If there are any guilty people they want to interview no doubt they'll all disappear before they can be found. Just think this is more of the same non-news. The case is however many years old and cold now, I don't see them ever solving it unless her body turns up accidentally or she escapes from captivity.



Yes No Real Update
they just Demand it to go on all our News.
More Non News interviews

[Z]

I believe the parents killed her.
Always have, probably always will.

How have they not been done for neglect either!?
I bet if they were two commoners on a council estate they'd be banged up in hours.

http://madnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/efits.jpg
bye.

I know, that part always leaves me in disbelief - if they weren't two rich white doctors on holiday they'd have had their kids taken off them by social services for neglect, hope they at least learned their lesson and have never left those twins alone ever since Madeleine's departure...

Yes No Real Update
they just Demand it to go on all our News.
More Non News interviews

Just so bloody ridiculous. They're profiteering from her disappearance and I think it's despicable to be honest. They never seem to show any kind of remorse for leaving the kids alone that night and while people deal with grief in different ways, the fact they've never accepted any kind of blame or shame for allowing their kids to be vulnerable like that is what's the crime here.

[Jesus.]

I'd arrest the fridge.

[Nedusa]

I fail to understand how every development however minor in this story is immediately plastered across the newswire as "Breaking News"..

How is it "Breaking News"...???

Have they found the girl or her body or arrested people that have confessed to her whereabouts..???

No...... they have sent a few detectives to the Algarve to interview somebody that may know something...!!!

I mean Please...........what is really going on with this case.

[Jesus.]

I fail to understand how every development however minor in this story is immediately plastered across the newswire as "Breaking News"..

How is it "Breaking News"...???

Have they found the girl or her body or arrested people that have confessed to her whereabouts..???

No...... they have sent a few detectives to the Algarve to interview somebody that may know something...!!!

I mean Please...........what is really going on with this case.

The cadaver dogs will solve it. Send them over there to interview these people who were on the phone when she was taken.

[chuff me dizzy]

I think I will leave this now as I will end up waffling on forever.

I honestly hope something comes of the new investigations and my thoughts are totally wrong, but I highly doubt it.

In Portuguese press today "David Payne ,person of interest "

[chuff me dizzy]

I fail to understand how every development however minor in this story is immediately plastered across the newswire as "Breaking News"..

How is it "Breaking News"...???

Have they found the girl or her body or arrested people that have confessed to her whereabouts..???

No...... they have sent a few detectives to the Algarve to interview somebody that may know something...!!!

I mean Please...........what is really going on with this case.

UK police CANNOT interview a Portuguese suspect, this is and always will be a Portuguese case

[Nedusa]

UK police CANNOT interview a Portuguese suspect, this is and always will be a Portuguese case

So it's even less of a news story than I thought it was....

A few British Police officers have gone to the Algarve ???

OMG....how is this "Breaking News"....????

[chuff me dizzy]

I know, that part always leaves me in disbelief - if they weren't two rich white doctors on holiday they'd have had their kids taken off them by social services for neglect, hope they at least learned their lesson and have never left those twins alone ever since Madeleine's departure...



Just so bloody ridiculous. They're profiteering from her disappearance and I think it's despicable to be honest. They never seem to show any kind of remorse for leaving the kids alone that night and while people deal with grief in different ways, the fact they've never accepted any kind of blame or shame for allowing their kids to be vulnerable like that is what's the crime here.

The efits Scotland yard called VITAL,CRITICAL ,Were held back by McCanns ,they went as far as to threaten their hired "Top Tecs" (metado) who had never been on a missing chlld case before only money laundrers to sue if they showed them ,as the man who gave these efit also said the man he saw was Gerry McCann

[Beastie]

Unfortunately she will be dead.

[chuff me dizzy]

So it's even less of a news story than I thought it was....

A few British Police officers have gone to the Algarve ???

OMG....how is this "Breaking News"....????

They are home now, nothing said about that one !! :joker:

[arista]

So it's even less of a news story than I thought it was....

A few British Police officers have gone to the Algarve ???

OMG....how is this "Breaking News"....????


Its Not
used as a fake Filler


Nothing new in this murder case

[chuff me dizzy]

Its Not
used as a fake Filler


Nothing new in this murder case

New today from PORTUGUESE press ........ http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/01/have-you-questioned-payne.html

[Niamh.]

New today from PORTUGUESE press ........ http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/01/have-you-questioned-payne.html

mmm after reading some stuff about that guy the last time we were talking about this, I've always thought that somehow he was involved

[chuff me dizzy]

mmm after reading some stuff about that guy the last time we were talking about this, I've always thought that somehow he was involved

Hes a dirty gettt Niamh ,did you read Gaspar Statements I posted about him and Gerry ?

[Niamh.]

Hes a dirty gettt Niamh ,did you read Gaspar Statements I posted about him and Gerry ?

Yes i think so, is that by the woman who'd been on holiday the year or two beforehand?

[chuff me dizzy]

http://thegaspersstatement.blogspot.co.uk/ You DO NOT let another man bathe your children ,David Payne bathed the little girls on the PDL trip and the trip the Gaspars went on,My opinion on this is as Maddie got older and neared school age they were scared she would talk about what went on

[arista]

New today from PORTUGUESE press ........ http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/01/have-you-questioned-payne.html


So he killed the girl?

[Niamh.]

http://thegaspersstatement.blogspot.co.uk/ You DO NOT let another man bathe your children ,David Payne bathed the little girls on the PDL trip and the trip the Gaspars went on,My opinion on this is as Maddie got older and neared school age they were scared she would talk about what went on

Yeah, I thought it was a bit weird as well, we would you do that?

[MrWong]

Hes a dirty gettt Niamh ,did you read Gaspar Statements I posted about him and Gerry ?

I read those statements.

I also read the statement by David Payne. One of the most disturbing things about his statement is how he refers to Maddie in the past tense. Like she's no longer alive.

"Mmm..., errr... Madeleine's, errr... a very striking, errr... beautiful child, I'd almost - if I want a better phrase - call her doll-like, you know. She was very, you know, I think, you know, very unique looking child, errr... she'd got very pretty, you know, blonde hair, errr... in a bob, she was quite a petite, errr... child and, you know, she was very bubbly, very, errr... you know, she was a very good child to, to interact with. She was very bright, you could have a lot of fun with Madeleine, errr... and, you know, she, she was, you know, Kate and Gerry's, you know, pride and joy. They'd had a lot of trouble conceiving, you know, with IVF and everything and, you know, Madeleine was their miracle. She was obviously very unique with the fact that she'd got the, you know, the iris defect, errr... but, you know, she was certainly a happy go lucky child, you know, she was, she would interact with the other children very well, as I said on the other, earlier recording, you know, she played very happily with Lily and, you know, indeed the other children. She was, you know, very... she is a very beautiful child and good fun."

(...)

"You know, I, you know, a fact I've come across already you know, she was a... she's a very bright child, you know, she wouldn't be the kind of mischievous child who, you know, and just try and get out of the flat and, you know, get up to mischief and that, you know, there's fun in all children but she certainly wasn't that kind of child. She was very bright."

[Kizzy]

I know it sounds daft to say I got a 'feeling' after reading the transcript of the interviews in the last debate, but looking at them again I still think there's something a bit odd about him.

[chuff me dizzy]

So he killed the girl?

Not said that Girth, but if you believe the police statements given by the group,he was the last person apart from Kate,Gerry who saw Maddie alive ,he also on the night they raised the alarm rang Scotland Yard child protection services in a 100 second phone call at just gone 11 that night, he has never said why he rang

[chuff me dizzy]

I know it sounds daft to say I got a 'feeling' after reading the transcript of the interviews in the last debate, but looking at them again I still think there's something a bit odd about him.

What i find odd Kizzy is they made Maddie a ward of court within DAYS of her "going missing " by her being a ward of court, Mc do not have to allow police to see Maddies medical records, or Kates,Gerrys ,what is in them medical records they would go to the length of handing their child over to the courts to prevent being shown ?

[chuff me dizzy]

Yvonne Martin (Social worker) police statement



Yvonne Martin statement 13/06

"Taking advantage of the information that she had heard on the news, she began questioning the couple about how often they had checked on the children, obtaining the reply that people would go to see them every HOUR"

"After having obtained the verbal response from Gerry, the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had been taken by a COUPLE"

"Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and were certified by the police."

HOW DID DP KNOW THEY WERE AUTHENTIC?

"She describes him as tall man, height about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, with short, dark hair, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face running from the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimension with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a southern English accent and was wearing CREAM coloured trousers and a dark polo shirt"

STATEMENT 14/11

"She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this. "

"She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing MATCHES PERFECTLY with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child. "

[Vicky.]

Intetesting about payne being a person of interest according to the portuguese press. Amazing the difference between theirs and ours eh..

[Jezzy]

Payne terrifies me.

[joeysteele]

I think this is more red herrings , it will turn out to be another fruitless lead. This adds oxygen to the kidnap story and keeps the bulk of the public thinking along those lines.

I think her parents know far more than they will ever tell and welcome baseless stories like these.

I hope she is alive but fear she died by accident that night and the rest of this is a panic reaction that has resulted in this abduction story.

Very sadly because this is an awful case,I think I have to agree with all you say above Nedusa, I would love to think it was wrong but this incident has stunk for me all though.

[Nedusa]

Very sadly because this is an awful case,I think I have to agree with all you say above Nedusa, I would love to think it was wrong but this incident has stunk for me all though.

What puzzles me as well is why nobody in the police and security services don't push the McCanns more on this area, everyone in the mainstream press just keep repeating the same kidnap theory...???

[Z]

What puzzles me as well is why nobody in the police and security services don't push the McCanns more on this area, everyone in the mainstream press just keep repeating the same kidnap theory...???

That really puzzles me as well. Obviously we're not privy to the ins and outs of the investigation because some things have to stay quiet but I just find it a bit ridiculous that they've more or less been shielded from it because they've built up this huge press campaign.

[Kizzy]

If Payne is in a high profile peadophile ring he will be have been afforded protection to buy his silence, that's my theory.

[Vicky.]

Meanwhile...McCanns do NOT seem to be co-operating with scotland yard at all by the looks of their site.

http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

'New' e-fits (that look quite like Gerry funnily enough) ignored, old tanerman still main suspect, despite being pretty much disregarded by Redwood after a £10m+ investigation...

[chuff me dizzy]

If Payne is in a high profile peadophile ring he will be have been afforded protection to buy his silence, that's my theory.

IMO Payne and Gerry both in this paedo ring

[Kizzy]

BREAKING NEWS: Police investigate claims five more British girls have been sexually assaulted in Algarve by lone intruder as they hunt for 'smelly, pot bellied' Madeleine McCann suspect
Detectives set to begin investigation in Portugal following breakthroughs
Officer is 'cautiously optimistic' that police from both nations will act soon
British police waiting for approval for operation from Portugal authorities
A 10-year-old girl was sexually assaulted in same are as Maddie in 2005
There are now potentially 18 linked cases, officers said
Police took 500 calls following appeal about suspect last month

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2611146/BREAKING-NEWS-Police-investigate-claims-five-British-girls-sexually-assaulted-Algarve-lone-intruder-hunt-smelly-pot-bellied-Madeleine-McCann-suspect.html

[Z]

Reading about the Marc Dutroux case makes you realise that there are a lot of high profile people willing to cover up sex crimes for unsavoury reasons.

[arista]

A local.

Of course they need to cross him off the list.

[Nedusa]

The Madeleine McCann news story.......The story that keeps giving ?

[Vicky.]

Unless this british man is Payne, ROB or Jerry then I am nearly certain this will come to nothing.

[Z]

The case has been cold for years, I really doubt this will come to anything. Either someone will find her body accidentally or she'll escape from somewhere, there won't be any police cracking of the case I don't think.

[GypsyGoth]

At least some police will get a trip to portugal out of this new investigation, they might even get lucky and find clues that mean they have to go to hawaii next.

[InOne]

The McCann's will make sure there is at least one story a month about Maddie. You can almost guarantee it will be mentioned somewhere. It does really seem a cold case like Z said.

[Marsh.]

At least some police will get a trip to portugal out of this new investigation, they might even get lucky and find clues that mean they have to go to hawaii next.

:eek:

:laugh:

[Z]

At least some police will get a trip to portugal out of this new investigation, they might even get lucky and find clues that mean they have to go to hawaii next.

:joker:

[Kazanne]

Another wild goose chase,I do wish they would stop insulting our intelligence,what a farce all this is.

[Nedusa]

Another day another Maddie McCann headline, is this a real lead or just more press column inches ?

Why is this story kept in the headlines when in reality no new leads have been found or most likely never will be.

Who stands to gain from this , who profits from these stories regularly appearing on the front pages of all British tabloids.

Is this a diversionary tactic to keep the minds of the great British public focused on a third party paedophile responsible for this girls abduction. If so why, what is being hidden here ?

Definitely something amiss here.

[joeysteele]

Another wild goose chase,I do wish they would stop insulting our intelligence,what a farce all this is.

In my opinion too Kazanne, 'farce' is the only word for it.

[Vicky.]

http://portugalresident.com/maddie-anniversary-brings-shock-new-revelations

“These latest revelations are simply beyond belief”, a former British policeman who has been actively following investigations told us.

“The totally Flat man - who managed to hide behind the door against the wall when Gerry (Madeleine’s father) entered the room to do his check (just before Madeleine went missing), and Tannerman who was of medium slim build, and Smithman, who was not potbellied, and the Heroin Blackman have all suddenly been dropped in favour of trying to trace potbellied Smellyman - a fat man who can leap in a single bound through a tiny window, and take a sleeping child, whilst sedating two others in a way unknown to modern medical science, and then leap out again and VANISH without leaving his distinctive smell.
“It is all too ridiculous to even try to take on board”...



Indeed...

[Z]

I still think the McCanns should be prosecuted for gross negligence. We can categorically say that this situation would not have happened if they had not irresponsibly left their toddler and two babies alone in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country so they could go have a boozy dinner with their friends. There were care facilities available on site so there is no excuse.

[Niamh.]

I still think the McCanns should be prosecuted for gross negligence. We can categorically say that this situation would not have happened if they had not irresponsibly left their toddler and two babies alone in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country so they could go have a boozy dinner with their friends. There were care facilities available on site so there is no excuse.

Indeed.

[InOne]

I still think the McCanns should be prosecuted for gross negligence. We can categorically say that this situation would not have happened if they had not irresponsibly left their toddler and two babies alone in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country so they could go have a boozy dinner with their friends. There were care facilities available on site so there is no excuse.

If they were Working Class and in low paid jobs I'm sure they would have been. Headlines would've read: 'Chav scum leave kids alone in Portugal to go on the piss'. But because they're in good jobs and quite photogenic (as is Maddie) it seems to have slipped everyones minds that it's their fault in the first place.

[Nedusa]

Apparently police are closing in on the abductor of Maddie and it is only a matter of time before arrests are made.

Pardon me....... really, is this actually the case or is it just more tabloid nonsense. as someone said in an earlier post.....

Farce.......complete farce all of this

[Kizzy]

If they were Working Class and in low paid jobs I'm sure they would have been. Headlines would've read: 'Chav scum leave kids alone in Portugal to go on the piss'. But because they're in good jobs and quite photogenic (as is Maddie) it seems to have slipped everyones minds that it's their fault in the first place.

Indeed.

[Z]

If they were Working Class and in low paid jobs I'm sure they would have been. Headlines would've read: 'Chav scum leave kids alone in Portugal to go on the piss'. But because they're in good jobs and quite photogenic (as is Maddie) it seems to have slipped everyones minds that it's their fault in the first place.

Yeah definitely. It's just a bit sick I think. On the one hand I feel sorry for Madeleine and I suppose for her parents for their loss; but on the other hand I think they're playing victims when at least to some extent they do have some blame to take for what happened that night.

[Kizzy]

I always thought they played a neat trick garnering so much sympathy for what ultimately was child neglect.

[Niamh.]

I always thought they played a neat trick garnering so much sympathy for what ultimately was child neglect.

yeah and the fact that they never acknowledge any blame is strange to me, you would imagine, as a parent, you would be racked with guilt and blame yourself if something like this happened to your child, I know I would

[Crimson Dynamo]

the blame lies with the abductor. period.

[Kizzy]

There was just no hysterics.... if it was me there would have been hysterics.
Payne was the last person to check her, he would have been dangling from a balcony somewhere explaining every detail of the last time he saw her.

[Nedusa]

There was just no hysterics.... if it was me there would have been hysterics.
Payne was the last person to check her, he would have been dangling from a balcony somewhere explaining every detail of the last time he saw her.

I agree......you would think more would have been made of this situation with Payne yet it was barely mentioned. Very odd ??

[Niamh.]

the blame lies with the abductor. period.

The McCanns are guilty of neglect, they left 3 babies alone in an unlocked apartment, that is neglect. You have a duty to protect your children which they failed to do by leaving them in a vulnerable situation. Yes, whoever took/murdered/whatever Maddie was "most" guilty" but they're not without guilt themselves

[Crimson Dynamo]

The McCanns are guilty of neglect, they left 3 babies alone in an unlocked apartment, that is neglect. You have a duty to protect your children which they failed to do by leaving them in a vulnerable situation. Yes, whoever took/murdered/whatever Maddie was "most" guilty" but they're not without guilt themselves

Its neglect in your eyes but they did not see it that way, they saw the situation as safe and it would have been but for a determined abductor

who probably would have snatched the child from the beach, a shop or whereever.

[Kizzy]

Its neglect in your eyes but they did not see it that way, they saw the situation as safe and it would have been but for a determined abductor

who probably would have snatched the child from the beach, a shop or whereever.

Wherever there is opportunity, they gave them that opportunity... gift wrapped it by leaving the door unlocked.

[Livia]

Its neglect in your eyes but they did not see it that way, they saw the situation as safe and it would have been but for a determined abductor

who probably would have snatched the child from the beach, a shop or whereever.

I've got to agree with this. The whole subject has been hijacked conspiricy theorists and I've seen some really appalling comments from people who have no more information on the case than anyone else on the Internet. The McCanns can't do anything right now in some people's eyes. They're even being criticised for popping up in the press every now and again, even though that was their plan right from the start: to keep their daughter's name in the public eye so that people didn't forget her. I feel dreadfully sorry for them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Wherever there is opportunity, they gave them that opportunity... gift wrapped it by leaving the door unlocked.

yes as random paedophiles are everywhere

[Kizzy]

There is an alternative view to everything, the term conspiracy theorist seems to apply to anyone who is anti the 'norm'.
I feel it's healthy to question everything then form your own opinion.

[Z]

I'm of the opinion that it is their fault that this happened to their little girl.

[Livia]

I'm of the opinion that it is their fault that this happened to their little girl.

I'm sure that's a thought that is in their mind every minute of every day.

[Ninastar]

I don't think anyone can deny that it is their fault. Of course it is. But at the end of the day, they've lost a little girl and they will never get over that. If people think that her parents being in 'spotlight' is a bad thing, then shame on you IMO. What would you do if your child went missing?

[Josy]

I don't think anyone can deny that it is their fault. Of course it is. But at the end of the day, they've lost a little girl and they will never get over that. If people think that her parents being in 'spotlight' is a bad thing, then shame on you IMO. What would you do if your child went missing?

Of course any parent would want it kept on the spotlight.

The 'bad' thing is that there are many other similar cases that should also be kept in the spotlight but aren't because the parents of the missing kids aren't from the same type of background as the McCanns are..

[Samm]

I don't know why people are blaming this on the parents

[Josy]

I don't know why people are blaming this on the parents

Read some more information about it then and you may understand why some blame the parents..because whether you believe they are to blame or not it's clearly understandable why some do blame them IMO.

[Kazanne]

I don't know why people are blaming this on the parents

Maybe,because they left 3 kids alone while they went out to dine!!

[Samm]

Read some more information about it then and you may understand why some blame the parents..because whether you believe they are to blame or not it's clearly understandable why some do IMO.

I have looked at the information I know what happened, they went out to eat while she was asleep

they had no idea this was going to happen, they must fill terrible for it but it's the person who kidnapped Madeleine who is the real blame for this not the parents

[Josy]

I have looked at the information I know what happened, they went out to eat while she was asleep

they had no idea this was going to happen, they must fill terrible for it but it's the person who kidnapped Madeleine who is the real blame for this not the parents

You posted above that you couldn't understand why some blamed them?

Surely if you have read about what happened you should be able to understand why some people don't believe the McCanns story or even do believe but feel they are partly responsible in a way for leaving the children alone in the firt place..even if you disagree with those opinions..

[Livia]

Of course any parent would want it kept on the spotlight.

The 'bad' thing is that there are many other similar cases that should also be kept in the spotlight but aren't because the parents of the missing kids aren't from the same type of background as the McCanns are..

Because they come from a particular background shouldn't exclude them from using every tool in their box to keep their child's name in the media. They've worked at this, it doesn't come naturally just because they're middle-class.

What other similar cases are there? I remember the Ben Needham case, it frightened the life out of me when I was a child. Ben Needham's mother was on telly quite recently saying she would never, ever give up hope. I don't even recall what background she was from because it's not important.

[Kazanne]

As her parents,THEY had a duty to make sure their children were safe,afterall child minders WERE available for some petty cash,their meal was obviously more important than the childrens welfare,so hence they get blamed and rightly so,if they weren't alone this sorry saga might never have happened.

[Niamh.]

I have looked at the information I know what happened, they went out to eat while she was asleep

they had no idea this was going to happen, they must fill terrible for it but it's the person who kidnapped Madeleine who is the real blame for this not the parents

They went out while she and her two even younger siblings were asleep, they were babies really, they left the apartment unlocked and went out even though the night before Maddie had told them she woke up and couldn't find them and she was upset. As a parent I will never understand how another parent could be so stupid and irresponsible to do what they did

[Livia]

Maybe,because they left 3 kids alone while they went out to dine!!

Don't you think they regret what they did every single moment? Losing their daughter in this terrible way might mean they've suffered more than any kind of prison sentence they might have been handed.

I've read some pretty appalling stuff on the web. I still trust what the police have and what they're going on far more than some uncorroborated sensationalist garbage on the Internet.

[Josy]

Because they come from a particular background shouldn't exclude them from using every tool in their box to keep their child's name in the media. They've worked at this, it doesn't come naturally just because they're middle-class.

What other similar cases are there? I remember the Ben Needham case, it frightened the life out of me when I was a child. Ben Needham's mother was on telly quite recently saying she would never, ever give up hope. I don't even recall what background she was from because it's not important.

Yes Ben Needham's Mother is still searching for him, funding everything by herself iirc, the private investigator that was dealing with the case said he gets hundreds of reports every year about sightings, yet it's never breaking news, never front page of the papers, funny that IMO I think if his mother was a doctor instead of a waitress in a hotel then it would be plastered all over the news constantly...that's my opinion just like it's my opinion that if Maddie had been from a family that lived off of benefits in a council estate then the parents would have been done for neglect and the case would be nowhere near as high profile as it has become.

[InOne]

The case of Shannon Matthews is probably the closest one compared to Maddie. People spent more time pointing out what a bad mother Karen was (obviously more than bad, evil) and the area she came from than Shannon herself. And nobody ever seems to mention that whilst she was thought missing the whole community got together and went out looking for her. We never really hear an update on Shannon or how she's doing, it all seems to be focused on the mother and stories that get people outraged for about half an hour.

[Kazanne]

Don't you think they regret what they did every single moment? Losing their daughter in this terrible way might mean they've suffered more than any kind of prison sentence they might have been handed.

I've read some pretty appalling stuff on the web. I still trust what the police have and what they're going on far more than some uncorroborated sensationalist garbage on the Internet.

They must suffer terribly Livia,and I cant imagine how they have coped,but I still think it was a crazy thing to do,I know we all think it wont happen to us,but sadly sometimes it does.I just know I couldn't settle if I went out without mine,I could never leave them alone,I don't understand anyone that would.I'm sure they do regret it,but their thoughtlessness,caused the scenario for someone to take her.

[Livia]

Yes Ben Needham's Mother is still searching for him, funding everything by herself iirc, the private investigator that was dealing with the case said he gets hundreds of reports every year about sightings, yet it's never breaking news, never front page of the papers, funny that IMO I think if his mother was a doctor instead of a waitress in a hotel then it would be plastered all over the news constantly...that's my opinion just like it's my opinion that if Maddie had been from a family that lived off of benefits in a council estate then the parents would have been done for neglect and the case would be nowhere near as high profile as it has become.

Ben Needham disappeared twenty five years ago. Maybe when Madeleine's been missing for that long it won't be front page news anymore. His mother funded a campaign in the same way the McCanns are doing. Honestly, I think this is a case of inverted snobbery. Do they deserve harsher treatment because they're middle class? Ben Needham disappeared without trace, left alone playing in the garden of his grandparents' house aged 21 months. Is that not neglect?

If Madeleine had been from a family who lived off benefits on a council estate what the hell would they be doing in Portugal at a tapas bar? And honestly, if the McCanns, obviously eaten up with grief, had been done for neglect, the country would have been outraged.

[Jemal]

Hopefully they solve this case but people who think theres a chance madeleine is still alive are clutching on strings.

[Livia]

The case of Shannon Matthews is probably the closest one compared to Maddie. People spent more time pointing out what a bad mother Karen was (obviously more than bad, evil) and the area she came from than Shannon herself. And nobody ever seems to mention that whilst she was thought missing the whole community got together and went out looking for her. We never really hear an update on Shannon or how she's doing, it all seems to be focused on the mother and stories that get people outraged for about half an hour.

Shannon Matthews wasn't abducted though. It's not the same thing at all!

Hey :-) x

[Vicky.]

Sorry but watching the crimewatch thing and hearing for the first time about Madeleine saying to her mother the night before she went missing 'why didn't you come when I was crying last night'...well lets just say it takes an incredibly cold person to leave their child again the night after that.

I had obviously heard the reports of the neighbour before(crying for an hour and half...now when were those checks? :conf: ), but I did not know the child herself actually questioned her parents on it and they STILL went out on the piss and left her alone.

Its little things like this that make me have little sympathy for the McCanns.

[InOne]

Shannon Matthews wasn't abducted though. It's not the same thing at all!

Hey :-) x

Those were compared by the media at the time. And she was locked in a room and drugged to keep her from leaving or know what's going on. So it's not like she could leave at any time.

Hello :pipe:

[Livia]

Sorry but watching the crimewatch thing and hearing for the first time about Madeleine saying to her mother the night before she went missing 'why didn't you come when I was crying last night'...well lets just say it takes an incredibly cold person to leave their child again the night after that.

I had obviously heard the reports of the neighbour before(crying for an hour and half...now when were those checks? :conf: ), but I did not know the child herself actually questioned her parents on it and they STILL went out on the piss and left her alone.

Its little things like this that make me have little sympathy for the McCanns.

Well I'm sure they'd do things differently if they had the chance to go back. It's rather hard-hearted not to have a modicum of sympathy at all for a family who's lost a little girl, despite the obvious mistakes that were made.

[Jemal]

I remember that the sketch of the kidnap looked exactly like her dad:joker:

[Niamh.]

Sorry but watching the crimewatch thing and hearing for the first time about Madeleine saying to her mother the night before she went missing 'why didn't you come when I was crying last night'...well lets just say it takes an incredibly cold person to leave their child again the night after that.

I had obviously heard the reports of the neighbour before(crying for an hour and half...now when were those checks? :conf: ), but I did not know the child herself actually questioned her parents on it and they STILL went out on the piss and left her alone.

Its little things like this that make me have little sympathy for the McCanns.

Exactly

[Livia]

Those were compared by the media at the time. And she was locked in a room and drugged to keep her from leaving or know what's going on. So it's not like she could leave at any time.

Hello :pipe:

Yes, but it was her mother that did it!

That little pipe guy always makes me laugh.

[Vicky.]

Well I'm sure they'd do things differently if they had the chance to go back. It's rather hard-hearted not to have a modicum of sympathy at all for a family who's lost a little girl, despite the obvious mistakes that were made.

Well I am also of the opinion that they did not 'lose' a little girl, not in the sense that the news tries to make out anyway. But I tend to try to not get into that side of things.

[InOne]

Yes, but it was her mother that did it!

That little pipe guy always makes me laugh.

She planned it but it was the others involved who were the ones who drugged her and kept her against her will. Karen Matthews had to pretend to be the grieving mother in order to get the money. Which thankfully she failed miserably at because even her friends knew something was up.

[Josy]

Ben Needham disappeared twenty five years ago. Maybe when Madeleine's been missing for that long it won't be front page news anymore. His mother funded a campaign in the same way the McCanns are doing. Honestly, I think this is a case of inverted snobbery. Do they deserve harsher treatment because they're middle class? Ben Needham disappeared without trace, left alone playing in the garden of his grandparents' house aged 21 months. Is that not neglect?

If Madeleine had been from a family who lived off benefits on a council estate what the hell would they be doing in Portugal at a tapas bar? And honestly, if the McCanns, obviously eaten up with grief, had been done for neglect, the country would have been outraged.

Completely different scenarios IMO but I don't want to take this thread off topic too much with discussing Ben's case..however what does it matter how long it's been since someone disappeared? surely a parent will never stop trying to find them which was my point when I replied to Caitlin earlier in the thread, I don't think people think there's anything bad about the case being kept in the media as such but all similar cases should be dealt with by the media in the same way.

And no theres no inverted snobbery here at all, everyone should be treated the same way regardless of their background...and I think the McCanns were given preferential treatment because of their class.

[Z]

Yeah as Vicky says, the fact they openly admit that the night before Madeleine had told them she was upset because they were alone just highlights how terrible their parenting was on that holiday. I mean, I think I can understand it even if I think it's totally appalling - they've got 3 kids, they're doctors, they have long, busy days and a lot of stress to deal with and going on holiday is a time to relax. They have kids so they can't properly relax during the day but they can't wait for the night time when they can put the kids to bed and go out and enjoy some 'them' time. Maybe they sedate the kids to speed up the process and then slip out to go see their friends. I can see how all those things add up to two parents thinking it's okay to leave two babies and a toddler unattended in an unlocked room in a foreign country. I still think it's despicable and they should have been punished for doing that, it is because of their gross negligence that Madeleine was kidnapped... if she indeed was ever kidnapped and wasn't murdered or accidentally died and it was covered up by them. The holiday resort had care facilities for parents to leave the kids supervised somewhere or have babysitters come round or whatever; but they decided not to do that. It's their fault that the opportunity presented itself for someone to kidnap Madeleine. 100%.

[Marsh.]

The McCann's made a mistake, but they made it twice which makes it less sympathetic.

Going out after you know your child was left crying and all alone is making the same mistake twice and I find it completely bizarre.

[Vicky.]

Yeah as Vicky says, the fact they openly admit that the night before Madeleine had told them she was upset because they were alone just highlights how terrible their parenting was on that holiday. I mean, I think I can understand it even if I think it's totally appalling - they've got 3 kids, they're doctors, they have long, busy days and a lot of stress to deal with and going on holiday is a time to relax. They have kids so they can't properly relax during the day but they can't wait for the night time when they can put the kids to bed and go out and enjoy some 'them' time. Maybe they sedate the kids to speed up the process and then slip out to go see their friends. I can see how all those things add up to two parents thinking it's okay to leave two babies and a toddler unattended in an unlocked room in a foreign country. I still think it's despicable and they should have been punished for doing that, it is because of their gross negligence that Madeleine was kidnapped... if she indeed was ever kidnapped and wasn't murdered or accidentally died and it was covered up by them. The holiday resort had care facilities for parents to leave the kids supervised somewhere or have babysitters come round or whatever; but they decided not to do that. It's their fault that the opportunity presented itself for someone to kidnap Madeleine. 100%.
They dumped the kids in the creche from morning til late afternoon, only picking them up for dinner inbetween creche breaks :umm2:

[Z]

Ugh wasn't even aware of that Vicky... yeah I agree Marsh, it's not like it was a one off mistake they made, they've admitted that they did it the night before! That's why I consider them to be guilty of something - negligence at best; murder/manslaughter at worst. There was no thought paid to the wellbeing of their children on more than one occasion, they should be punished accordingly as this is all common knowledge.

[chuff me dizzy]

Read more here
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-british-man-arrested-2366183


Would be one of the biggest shocks ever if this girl had to be found alive.

^^ total and utter BS

[Kizzy]

I don't think she will be either, they were accountable though that's my view.. and however sorry I feel for them that is a fact.

[Kizzy]

Excavations are due to begin near the site where Madeleine McCann vanished from, it has been reported.

Scotland Yard has been given the approval to begin digging up sites, just days after the seventh anniversary of her disappearance.

Madeleine, who was then nearly four, went missing from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal's Algarve on May 3 2007, as her parents dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/06/madeleine-mccann-news-scotland-yard-digging-portugal_n_5271920.html?ncid=webmail1

[Z]

Think it's a bit appalling that they didn't do this at the time...

[Kizzy]

Wonder if they'll find that fridge?...

[Kazanne]

Wonder if they'll find that fridge?...

That fridge will be long gone Kizzy,why wasn't that followed up? some very strange things do not add up with this ,do they?

[Kizzy]

That is the big question kaz, no they don't at all.

[Vicky.]

I wonder where the info has came from..I cant see SY/PJ randomly digging up places tbh. Unless a body (or something else...) is found, its going to be utterly useless, and very expensive. So IMO they must be pretty sure they are going to find something

[Vicky.]

Just LOL. Sorry but..the portuguese press are reporting that our police will be using high tech gear, which is good. However they are also reporting that our police will be using...cadaver dogs. Given the past connections of dogs with this case..can't see Gerry being too happy about this :laugh:


Also A friend of the McCanns told the paper they are not specifically looking for a body, but were hoping to rule out possible scenarios out as well as find new information.

You cannot rule out a scenario by NOT finding a body surely? Especially if you only dig at three sites...maybe if you dug up the whole world or something but not from this. And what else would they be digging for if not a body :conf:

[Josy]

Just LOL. Sorry but..the portuguese press are reporting that our police will be using high tech gear, which is good. However they are also reporting that our police will be using...cadaver dogs. Given the past connections of dogs with this case..can't see Gerry being too happy about this :laugh:

Oh fgs, after all the discrediting of them by the McCanns in the past.

Quite interested to see if anything comes of all this tbh.

[Livia]

I'm hoping they're going to send a team from TiBB to get to the bottom of this once and for all.

[AnnieK]

Even if they find a body though, all it is going to prove after all this time is that poor Maddie is dead which the majority of people believe anyway. Finding a body is not going to answer any of the questions that have already been posed for the last 7 years....obviously Maddie will be able to be laid to rest but the police will be no nearer to solving the case, I can't see much forensic evidence being found so far on down the line.

[Z]

If they find the body at least they can put most of the media circus to rest.

[Niamh.]

Even if they find a body though, all it is going to prove after all this time is that poor Maddie is dead which the majority of people believe anyway. Finding a body is not going to answer any of the questions that have already been posed for the last 7 years....obviously Maddie will be able to be laid to rest but the police will be no nearer to solving the case, I can't see much forensic evidence being found so far on down the line.

You never know, it'd be a whole lot more evidence then what they've got so far anyway, that's for sure!

[Vicky.]

According to ITV news..the dogs are going in tomorrow.

I don't understand why? When in this investigation dogs findings are totally disregarded...if they are as unreliable as we are led to believe, why use them again in the same investigation :shrug:

[Kazanne]

According to ITV news..the dogs are going in tomorrow.

I don't understand why? When in this investigation dogs findings are totally disregarded...if they are as unreliable as we are led to believe, why use them again in the same investigation :shrug:

Just watching this on the news,it's all so strange,and yes,Vicky that's a good point,what is the point of dogs 7 years after the event?

[Josy]

According to ITV news..the dogs are going in tomorrow.

I don't understand why? When in this investigation dogs findings are totally disregarded...if they are as unreliable as we are led to believe, why use them again in the same investigation :shrug:

I posted this before above but I'm interested in the outcome tbh just to see if the McCanns discredit any findings again or not.

[Vicky.]

I hope to god this little girl can finally be laid to rest at the end of this. But I doubt it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

All I think about are the poor parents. They have done thier best

[CaudleHalbard]

I wonder how the McCanns libel case against Goncalo Amaral is going?

Will they investigate the golf course (many miles from the apartment complex) Gerry McCann spent several hours at.... but didn't play golf? ;)

[Vicky.]

I wonder how the McCanns libel case against Goncalo Amaral is going?

Will they investigate the golf course (many miles from the apartment complex) Gerry McCann spent several hours at.... but didn't play golf? ;)

Thats been kept well out of our media hasnt it...

Court ruled that the McCanns have no right to sue in Madeleine's name as she is a ward of court, basically. They want proof that the McCanns had permission to attempt way back when they started the trial. So its not even something they can apply for NOW..it had to be applied for at the time. If they cannot produce this, Amaral will be acquitted (though I think they were suing for damages to themselves and the twins too? That will go ahead..they just can't sue for Madeleine)

16th June is proposed final session. Gerry will be required to physically attend court to give his statement...

Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial
1 Jun 2014





Judge rules that Kate and Gerry McCann do not possess the authority to sue Gonçalo Amaral in their daughter’s name.


The judge at the Civil Court of Lisbon who is trying the ‘libel’ case which Kate and Gerry McCann have filed against Gonçalo Amaral and 3 other parties has issued a decision concerning the matter of Madeleine McCann being a Ward of Court.

On the 3rd of January 2014, Gonçalo Amaral had argued before the Lisbon Court that Madeleine’s parents do not possess the necessary power to represent their daughter in this action, since the child had been made a Ward of Court in the United Kingdom.

The judge decided that Mr Amaral should present a certificate of the relevant British judicial ruling. That certificate was delivered to the Court on the 2nd of May, after a lengthy, expensive process.

The judge then had to decide whether or not Madeleine’s parents were entitled to represent their daughter in this lawsuit. In the judge’s recent ruling, it is mentioned that “within the 'Wardship', the High Court holds ultimate responsibility over the child, but it does not suppress or annul the exercise of the parental responsibilities”. The High Court takes control over “the most important decisions for the life” of the child. The judge further considers that “the decision to file a judicial action in the name of the child” is a decision “of the magnitude that is demanded for the agreement or consent of the court”.

The judge’s ruling further notes that the matters that have been brought before the High Court that holds the Wardship have been matters of an “eminently judiciary nature, like the revelation of confidential information and documents, that are related to the child’s disappearance and were in the possession of the local police”.

The text continues with the consideration that because Madeleine was made a Ward of the Court on the 2nd of April of 2008, her parents did not possess, in 2009, “the necessary capacity of representation of their daughter to file the present action without the authorization from the British court”.

Nevertheless, the judge has decided that the final court session, which will include a statement from Gerald McCann and the presentation of closing arguments from all sides, should take place regardless of the matter of the Wardship.

After that hearing is completed, the proceedings will be suspended for 30 days. During that period, Madeleine’s parents “shall arrange for the collection and documentation in the records of the British Court’s authorization for the bringing of this action on behalf of the minor Madeleine McCann”. If they fail to do so, the defendants will be “acquitted of the proceedings concerning the requests that have been formulated on behalf of the latter”.

The judge has proposed the date of 16th June for the final session, but each of the lawyers involved have the possibility of declining said date and suggesting alternative dates.

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/ward-of-court-decision-issued-by-judge.html?m=1

[arista]

On Todays News
as UK Police are there in the Holiday time
many UK Holiday makers were going there
but now have pulled out
I do not blame them

[Nedusa]

I do not see how they cannot postpone this search until after the holiday season ends, I mean if there is anything there it will still be there in 4 months time.

[Vicky.]

On Todays News
as UK Police are there in the Holiday time
many UK Holiday makers were going there
but now have pulled out
I do not blame them
Yeah..a lot of the residents of PDL are really pissed off. If you think though..this farce of a case has been affecting their businesses and homelife for 7years now

[Z]

I do not see how they cannot postpone this search until after the holiday season ends, I mean if there is anything there it will still be there in 4 months time.

Unless somebody moved it :shrug: I find it incredible that 7 years later they think to check an area of scrubland right beside where she went missing and that they're doing it right at the start of the summer but what do I know.

[Vicky.]

Unless somebody moved it :shrug: I find it incredible that 7 years later they think to check an area of scrubland right beside where she went missing and that they're doing it right at the start of the summer but what do I know.

Venturing slightly into total conspiracy here, but I have a feeling it might have something to do with David and Fiona Payne being wiped out of the whole story. They werent mentioned on crimewatch. David was the one who spoke of a pact of silence in his statement too...and the one who made the tennis bag thing seem really dodgy (saying things like 'it wasnt big enough to hide a....put a tennis raquet in)

I just can't see any other reason why they would suddenly decide to do this, except for someone blabbing something :shrug:

[Vicky.]

Well...

ITV news just said the police have sent buckets of soil off for testing. And that there are 8 people of interest to be took in by police.

Interesting.

[Jack_]

All I think about are the poor parents. They have done thier best

Did you feel the same when Shannon Matthews went missing?

[Kizzy]

That's a bit of a leading question, do you mean because of the social standing issue?

[Nedusa]

I wonder if they'll find the body of Lord Lucan down there as well.

[Marsh.]

I can't get the story about one of their friends out of my head whenever this comes on the news now. :bored:

[Nedusa]

I can't get the story about one of their friends out of my head whenever this comes on the news now. :bored:

I know... makes me think there is a lot more to this story than what has been told to the public.

The story is 7 years old yet more revelations more investigations almost in the news every Month.

Perhaps there are further major developments just around the corner.

[Vicky.]

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/maddie-case-searching-for-evidence-of.html

This is basically a page that translates the Portuguese articles. I have no idea if the press over there are as bad for making stuff up as ours are though so it should be taken with a pinch of salt...

The English Police believe the body of Madeleine McCann, who disappeared seven years ago in the Algarve, is or has been buried in Praia da Luz, Lagos. This the focus of the British investigators who began yesterday the search for evidence of the death of the English child on the ground where excavations were authorized, searching for both the corpse or other hidden vestiges.

CM found out that sniffer dogs, that were brought from England to detect corpses or buried clues, will begin to be used today in the searches. Investigators from Scotland Yard are convinced that the English child, then with four and who was on holiday with her parents and twin siblings in the Ocean Club resort, died in Praia da Luz and that her body was buried in a vacant lot.

They admit, however, that the body could have been removed, at a later time, from the location where it was hidden and that it is now possible to detect any clues that were left on the ground.

IF this is true, our police are now completely inline with what Amaral thought before being removed from the case...

[Kizzy]

I can't get the story about one of their friends out of my head whenever this comes on the news now. :bored:

Do you mean that payne guy?... for some reason he totally creeped me out, but I was right about Rolf Harris so who knows.

[Me. I Am Salman]

All these sightings must be so frustrating for her family

If that was the case, they'd have let the case die down years ago surely?

It's the parents who have kept the case in the limelight 6 years on.

how things change :o

[Marsh.]

What do you mean?

[Marsh.]

Do you mean that payne guy?... for some reason he totally creeped me out, but I was right about Rolf Harris so who knows.

Yep, that's the one. When I read the transcript of what that guy said about Madeleine I felt sick.

[Niamh.]

Yep, that's the one. When I read the transcript of what that guy said about Madeleine I felt sick.

mmm there was definitely something funny about that guy and his involvement in it imo

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lets hope they find what they are looking for and the Poor McCann parents can get closure, god knows they have suffered enough

[Livia]

Lets hope they find what they are looking for and the Poor McCann parents can get closure, god knows they have suffered enough

They'll get no sympathy here sadly. They were wrong to leave the kids... and it seems people want them to suffer the agony of that mistake for the rest of their lives. They should have left Madeleine in a boiling hot car with the windows closed and let her die a slow agonising death from heatstroke and dehydration, they may have got a little sympathy then.

[CaudleHalbard]

The people I feel sorry for are the residents and businesses of PDL.

Having followed this case closely over the years, including reading Amaral's book and all the information freely available online, I'm afraid "poor Kate and Gerry" do not get an ounce of sympathy from me.

The only reason they keep this in the public eye is because they know the huge amount of suspicion that still hangs over them. It would not surprise me if they are happy for the body to be found - at long last - now that any forensic evidence of, for example, sedatives or even sexual abuse will be long gone.

[Livia]

The people I feel sorry for are the residents and businesses of PDL.

Having followed this case closely over the years, including reading Amaral's book and all the information freely available online, I'm afraid "poor Kate and Gerry" do not get an ounce of sympathy from me.

The only reason they keep this in the public eye is because they know the huge amount of suspicion that still hangs over them. It would not surprise me if they are happy for the body to be found - at long last - now that any forensic evidence of, for example, sedatives or even sexual abuse will be long gone.

It always amuses me that people with no legal training consider that they have "followed this case closely" by reading stuff on the Internet. Information gained from reading stuff on online is always questionable. You don't know more than the lawyers and police by reading stuff on the Internet.

The reason anyone keeps a story alive in the press is so that the public remember. Ben Needham's mother turns up in the press from time to time even now, is that a sign of her guilt? No.

If they found a body, there would be a surprising amount of forensic evidence that they can gather from it.

The way the McCanns are discussed is appalling. No one has one tangible shred of evidence that they had anything to do with their daughter's disappearance or, believe me, they would be in custody right now.

[Lee.]

It always amuses me that people with no legal training consider that they have "followed this case closely" by reading stuff on the Internet. Information gained from reading stuff on online is always questionable. You don't know more than the lawyers and police by reading stuff on the Internet.

The reason anyone keeps a story alive in the press is so that the public remember. Ben Needham's mother turns up in the press from time to time even now, is that a sign of her guilt? No.

If they found a body, there would be a surprising about of forensic evidence that can gather from it.

The way the McCanns are discussed is appalling. No one has one tangible shred of evidence that they had anything to do with their daughter's disappearance or, believe me, they would be in custody right now.

-stands up and applauds-

[Vicky.]

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?

[Niamh.]

Yep, if she was abducted like the McCanns have been claiming or if she was accidentally killed during a burglary why on earth would either the burglers or the kidnappers decide to bury her there, makes no sense. You don't need a law degree to think that *maybe* the police are working off the theory that it was neither of the two

[Livia]

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?

The parents are lucky it happened in Portugal? Lucky?

I'd be interested to know how you reached your conclusion that, if evidence is found, there won't be enough to convict. That's an amazing piece of foresight that even police and lawyers don't even possess. And it's the kind of wild claim I read in this thread on a regular basis.

The parents are innocent until they are proven guilty. That's the rule. So I'm astounded that there's so much opposition to another search. Surely anything that could throw some light on what happened should be encouraged? But no... everyone on here knows much better it seems than the people involved in the case. Maybe TiBB should send a team out?

Removing something or someone from a premises without leaving fingerprints or DNA isn't a spectacular trick. It shows someone was careful, that is all.

The fact is that there is a section of this forum, and of the public, who think they know all about the case, more than the police and lawyers involved even. And you just don't. You can't pretend that you've read 13,000 pages of police files nor what evidence they may point to, nor even how to interpret the evidence that exists. You've read snippets, and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The fact that people think they know more than the police, and this is a massive comspiricy to cover up for the McCanns, is a mixture of sad and hilarious.

[Livia]

Yep, if she was abducted like the McCanns have been claiming or if she was accidentally killed during a burglary why on earth would either the burglers or the kidnappers decide to bury her there, makes no sense. You don't need a law degree to think that *maybe* the police are working off the theory that it was neither of the two

Maybe theyre not looking for a body. Maybe they're looking for something else. I don't know... and I'm not guessing.

[Kizzy]

I think questioning and examining information is good, nobody here has claimed to be a legal expert or one in forensic pathology for that matter...
That doesn't exclude them from putting forward their considered opinion, and to me it seems the lines that were drawn when maddie went missing are blurring, so who knows what will surface and what conspiracies will be shown to have more than a grain of truth.

[Vanessa]

I can't believe after all this time we still have no idea what happened. Looks like the initial investigation was seriously flawed. But i do hope she's found alive and well.

[Vicky.]

The parents are lucky it happened in Portugal? Lucky?

I'd be interested to know how you reached your conclusion that, if evidence is found, there won't be enough to convict. That's an amazing piece of foresight that even police and lawyers don't even possess. And it's the kind of wild claim I read in this thread on a regular basis.

The parents are innocent until they are proven guilty. That's the rule. So I'm astounded that there's so much opposition to another search. Surely anything that could throw some light on what happened should be encouraged? But no... everyone on here knows much better it seems than the people involved in the case. Maybe TiBB should send a team out?

Removing something or someone from a premises without leaving fingerprints or DNA isn't a spectacular trick. It shows someone was careful, that is all.

The fact is that there is a section of this forum, and of the public, who think they know all about the case, more than the police and lawyers involved even. And you just don't. You can't pretend that you've read 13,000 pages of police files nor what evidence they may point to, nor even how to interpret the evidence that exists. You've read snippets, and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The fact that people think they know more than the police, and this is a massive comspiricy to cover up for the McCanns, is a mixture of sad and hilarious.
I didn't say that? I said there could be evidence now but not enough to convict. If a body/dna/pink blanket/tennis bag etc is found where they are searching then it would be definite evidence tbh

And yes, the parents are lucky...as if dogs are enough to put someone away in OUR system (as has been proven recently) then if Madeleine had disappeared here..the dogs would again be enough evidence to convict? Even if they did have nothing to do with it..

I haven't read all 13k files no, but I have read a good few thousand pages over the years. Some might consider that an obsession..but I have a lot of spare time while I cant sleep on a night.

Oddly enough, before reading the police files (the statements are the most interesting by far IMO) I used to think the same as you...how could anyone think they were involved etc etc.

Also I don't understand how you have come to the conclusion that there is opposition to another search? I welcome this search, completely. I just think that they are looking for a body (or evidence of a body being there.. so the police have said in interviews with the news...) so close, that it rules out any random bogeymen that have got the blame thus far. The only other option besides the parents having something to do with it, is that someone purposely set out to murder her that night and bury her close..and that has never been mentioned yet

[joeysteele]

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?



This is one the strangest cases of all time.

I have been all over the place in my thinking,like masses of other people, on this case,so much so I have in the main for the present stopped commenting on it usually, although still following it when it is again and again brought back into the public arena.

Where do I now lean as to it, I was more persuaded,especially here on tibb, a fair while ago with Chuffmedizzy's take overall on this case.

All I want to say now is the post above is a really good one,which covers a fair bit of what did and didn't maybe occur.
Some really strong points in the quoted post above from Vicky.

It does seem whenever this case returns to the public arena, the end result usually is, even more questions raised rather than any real answers ever found.
Will this time be any different, I doubt it actually.

[arista]

I can't believe after all this time we still have no idea what happened. Looks like the initial investigation was seriously flawed. But i do hope she's found alive and well.


No due to the Media
she will not found
and is sadly dead

[Vanessa]

No due to the Media
she will not found
and is sadly dead

:( It doesn't look good, but i haven't lost all hope.

[Nedusa]

Having read some of the evidence contained in the police files and pretty much all the reports and comment around this case I am like a lot of people puzzled by the many contradictions and unanswered questions.

I am also confused as to why if the McCann family did have more to hide than has been reported in the official story, why oh why would they want to keep this story in the headlines. Surely they would want the story to quietly fade out of the public consciousness not instead have it blazoned across the Tabloids every couple of Months or so.

But then if they or any of their friends were not involved and it was truly a stranger that abducted her why is there no evidence to at least prove that a third party was involved.

All the police investigations involving the Portuguese and British police forces and the independent private investigations, all have turned up no killer evidence and 7 years on we are no further forward.

So I don't know what to think, just that something is NOT right with this case, something has been missed, overlooked or deliberately witheld.

It would be good if some new evidence could at least push the investigation down one avenue and end all the suspicion and conspiracy surrounding the events of that fateful night.

[Marsh.]

They'll get no sympathy here sadly. They were wrong to leave the kids... and it seems people want them to suffer the agony of that mistake for the rest of their lives. They should have left Madeleine in a boiling hot car with the windows closed and let her die a slow agonising death from heatstroke and dehydration, they may have got a little sympathy then.

:conf: Who's said that?

Pointing out they were at major fault for leaving their children even after they were aware Madeleine was scared and left along to cry herself to sleep and couldn't find them doesn't mean I want them to spend the rest of their lives suffering.

It was a piece of information most of us only found out during the crime watch reconstruction and when most members bring it up it's in response to the "it could happen to anyone" excuse.

There is no excuse, they left their children along, with doors unlocked and goodness knows how many obvious dodgy signs so they could go and have a night wining and dining.

I feel terribly sorry for them and I hope they do get closure one way or the other so they can move forward with their lives, I wouldn't wish this kind of torment on my worst enemy but the actual mistakes they made were not accidental IMO, it was neglectful.

[Livia]

:conf: Who's said that?

Pointing out they were at major fault for leaving their children even after they were aware Madeleine was scared and left along to cry herself to sleep and couldn't find them doesn't mean I want them to spend the rest of their lives suffering.

It was a piece of information most of us only found out during the crime watch reconstruction and when most members bring it up it's in response to the "it could happen to anyone" excuse.

There is no excuse, they left their children along, with doors unlocked and goodness knows how many obvious dodgy signs so they could go and have a night wining and dining.

I feel terribly sorry for them and I hope they do get closure one way or the other so they can move forward with their lives, I wouldn't wish this kind of torment on my worst enemy but the actual mistakes they made were not accidental IMO, it was neglectful.

No one said that, that's why I started my sentence with "it seems...". And I wasn't specifically addressing your own posts.

[Marsh.]

No one said that, that's why I started my sentence with "it seems...". And I wasn't specifically addressing your own posts.

I never said you were. I was addressing your generalisation with one of my own.

[Cherie]

Vicky are you referring to the April Jones case? Fragments of bone from her skull were found in the woodburner so there was some physical evidence found by the dogs if that is the case you mean

[Vicky.]

Vicky are you referring to the April Jones case? Fragments of bone from her skull were found in the woodburner so there was some physical evidence found by the dogs if that is the case you mean

No, a very recent one that I saw on the news like 2 nights ago. Cadaver scent in some guys basement and his van but no body or anything found.

Edit. Infact I think it was the most recent crimewatch that I saw it on:think: I only remember it because such a fuss was made over the no physical evidence part of it.

Edit again. It was on crimewatch... http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b046487j/profiles/how-they-caught-david-gilroy this guy I think it was. WIll have to rewatch it now as there is no mention of dogs in that story and I specifically remember them saying the dogs was the main evidence so it might be the wrong one :facepalm:

[Livia]

I never said you were. I was addressing your generalisation with one of my own.

You asked "Who said that?"

No one said that.

Discussion is one thing; thinking you know all about the case because you've read about it online is quite another.

Anyhoo, I've really said all I had to say in my previous posts.

[Marsh.]

You asked "Who said that?"

No one said that.

Discussion is one thing; thinking you know all about the case because you've read about it online is quite another.

Anyhoo, I've really said all I had to say in my previous posts.

When I posted that I meant what are people posting/saying that is giving you that impression. You were obviously referring to the opinions posted "here". I was merely querying whereabouts you have gotten that impression that people here think they should suffer for the rest of their lives for their mistake.

The "knowing all about a case you've read online" came up in another post and wasn't what I was referring to.

[Z]

If her body was buried where they're searching then surely by now, 7 years later, there will be nothing but bones left for them to find? At which point it'll surely be impossible to determine a cause of death? The whole bloody thing is just flawed from start to finish.

[chuff me dizzy]

There could be evidence, just not enough to secure a conviction. IMO the parents are quite lucky that it happened in Portugal where the dogs aren't good enough to be used as primary evidence..given that someone has just been done in our country despite no body and basically nothing but what the dogs found.

Also its quite interesting that generally the people who think the parents are totally innocent tend to have not read very much into the case. I'm not talking conspiracy websites, I mean the 13k pages of police files that are there for everyone to see. The same police files that SY have been scouring for years...and that lead them to this dig.

There may be no evidence as such of the parents involvement. But there is also no evidence of an abduction.

It seems our police are working along the same lines now as the original investigation was. Honestly..they are looking for a body (or evidence that a body was there) right next to the hotel. What kind of burglar (lets forget that the burglar took nothing 'valuable'..) accidentally or purposely kills a child, decides to take the body, wanders around PDL with her, then buries her right next to where he killed her. It just makes NO sense at all. Lets forget again that this burglar/abductor left no traces of dna/fingerprints/anything while carrying out this amazing stunt.

I don't actually understand how people can't find this strange?

:worship:

[chuff me dizzy]

No, a very recent one that I saw on the news like 2 nights ago. Cadaver scent in some guys basement and his van but no body or anything found.

Edit. Infact I think it was the most recent crimewatch that I saw it on:think: I only remember it because such a fuss was made over the no physical evidence part of it.

Edit again. It was on crimewatch... http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b046487j/profiles/how-they-caught-david-gilroy this guy I think it was. WIll have to rewatch it now as there is no mention of dogs in that story and I specifically remember them saying the dogs was the main evidence so it might be the wrong one :facepalm:

Yes it was the Gilroy case, no body, but charged with murder on dog evidence

[Marsh.]

If her body was buried where they're searching then surely by now, 7 years later, there will be nothing but bones left for them to find? At which point it'll surely be impossible to determine a cause of death? The whole bloody thing is just flawed from start to finish.

At least they'll have found her and be able to put all this "hope she's alive" stuff to bed.

[chuff me dizzy]

It always amuses me that people with no legal training consider that they have "followed this case closely" by reading stuff on the Internet. Information gained from reading stuff on online is always questionable. You don't know more than the lawyers and police by reading stuff on the Internet.

The reason anyone keeps a story alive in the press is so that the public remember. Ben Needham's mother turns up in the press from time to time even now, is that a sign of her guilt? No.

If they found a body, there would be a surprising amount of forensic evidence that they can gather from it.

The way the McCanns are discussed is appalling. No one has one tangible shred of evidence that they had anything to do with their daughter's disappearance or, believe me, they would be in custody right now.

Police files are available for all to read, i suggest you do that because you truly do not know what you are talking about

[Z]

At least they'll have found her and be able to put all this "hope she's alive" stuff to bed.

If they can even confirm it's her, I don't know how badly a body would have decomposed if it's spent 7 summers in the baking Portuguese sunshine and who knows what kind of conditions throughout the rest of the year - then again if it's been buried in a scrubland then perhaps it's not too badly decomposed? I'm no expert. 7 years is a very long time though, if that little girl died in 2007 and the body's been there for all that time then I would question why they didn't search the area until now... yet another thread that leads to conspiracy land.

[chuff me dizzy]

If they can even confirm it's her, I don't know how badly a body would have decomposed if it's spent 7 summers in the baking Portuguese sunshine and who knows what kind of conditions throughout the rest of the year - then again if it's been buried in a scrubland then perhaps it's not too badly decomposed? I'm no expert. 7 years is a very long time though, if that little girl died in 2007 and the body's been there for all that time then I would question why they didn't search the area until now... yet another thread that leads to conspiracy land.

Lots of reasons why not searched until now Z ,and as far as Im aware the dna would still be intact as would drugs etc

[Marsh.]

If they can even confirm it's her, I don't know how badly a body would have decomposed if it's spent 7 summers in the baking Portuguese sunshine and who knows what kind of conditions throughout the rest of the year - then again if it's been buried in a scrubland then perhaps it's not too badly decomposed? I'm no expert. 7 years is a very long time though, if that little girl died in 2007 and the body's been there for all that time then I would question why they didn't search the area until now... yet another thread that leads to conspiracy land.

I'm sure some kind of DNA can be taken from bones/whatever's left.

I'm not a CSI expert but I'm sure there's some method of determining whether any remains belong to Madeleine.

[Kazanne]

Anyone watching the McCanns con man prog on channel 5

[Livia]

If they can even confirm it's her, I don't know how badly a body would have decomposed if it's spent 7 summers in the baking Portuguese sunshine and who knows what kind of conditions throughout the rest of the year - then again if it's been buried in a scrubland then perhaps it's not too badly decomposed? I'm no expert. 7 years is a very long time though, if that little girl died in 2007 and the body's been there for all that time then I would question why they didn't search the area until now... yet another thread that leads to conspiracy land.

They managed to prove the bones they dug up in Leicester were the bones of Richard III using DNA.

[Livia]

Police files are available for all to read, i suggest you do that because you truly do not know what you are talking about

I don't pretend to know. I guess that's the difference.

[Smithy]

Anyone watching the McCanns con man prog on channel 5

I am, idgi though, is the guy they hired not actually a secret service agent or whatever it was, why was he at the White House and stuff :conf:

[chuff me dizzy]

Anyone watching the McCanns con man prog on channel 5

Not for me too much propaganda rammed down the gullible publics necks for last 7 years

[Kazanne]

I am, idgi though, is the guy they hired not actually a secret service agent or whatever it was, why was he at the White House and stuff :conf:

Well I watched all that Smithy and was no wiser at the end,all I can gather is he was supposed to be a hot shot tec,who conned loads of money from the McCann fund,still not sure though:hugesmile:

[letmein]

So the parents still haven't been sent to jail for killing their kid...

[Kizzy]

I think the original question was would they be able to assess how she died and what if any abuse occurred prior to death, not if the body could be confirmed as her at all..
I can't understand why it's so alien to understand why this wouldn't be debated in a news section of a discussion forum, nobody is an expert on the subject here are they?

[Marsh.]

But surely confirming whether the body is Madeleine (if they find one) at all is the first priority?

[Kizzy]

Oh yes naturally, but confirming any exact cause now is going to be very hard :(
but they can do amazing things now so if they do find her I hope that there can be justice for her.
I totally agree with your point on neglect too, it was inexcusable and however bad I feel for them as a parent myself it was a shockingly selfish act considering how distressed she had been previously having been left :(

[Marsh.]

I hope justice is finally served too, for whatever happened to her.

[chuff me dizzy]

Well I watched all that Smithy and was no wiser at the end,all I can gather is he was supposed to be a hot shot tec,who conned loads of money from the McCann fund,still not sure though:hugesmile:

He was part of a company ,whos only history was in money laundering, not missing children, McCanns handed over £700,000 of the money donated by children selling their toys and pensioners, why would they do that ? not once have they tried to get the money back ,why ? what did this firm find out? was it hush money ? this company was the ones that got the efit now being used by Scotland Yard as the best efit from an Irish family Smith who also named the man they saw as being Gerry McCann, McCann knew of these efits and threatened the company never to show them, they sat on them for 5 years (no stone unturned ?) and it was SY who found out about them ,when the company finally handed them over 5 years later

[Kazanne]

He was part of a company ,whos only history was in money laundering, not missing children, McCanns handed over £700,000 of the money donated by children selling their toys and pensioners, why would they do that ? not once have they tried to get the money back ,why ? what did this firm find out? was it hush money ? this company was the ones that got the efit now being used by Scotland Yard as the best efit from an Irish family Smith who also named the man they saw as being Gerry McCann, McCann knew of these efits and threatened the company never to show them, they sat on them for 5 years (no stone unturned ?) and it was SY who found out about them ,when the company finally handed them over 5 years later

Thanks for explaining that Chuff,it's certainly food for thought,everything about this case is bloody shady.

[Nedusa]

He was part of a company ,whos only history was in money laundering, not missing children, McCanns handed over £700,000 of the money donated by children selling their toys and pensioners, why would they do that ? not once have they tried to get the money back ,why ? what did this firm find out? was it hush money ? this company was the ones that got the efit now being used by Scotland Yard as the best efit from an Irish family Smith who also named the man they saw as being Gerry McCann, McCann knew of these efits and threatened the company never to show them, they sat on them for 5 years (no stone unturned ?) and it was SY who found out about them ,when the company finally handed them over 5 years later

I didn't know about this....like I said in my earlier post there is information that is being witheld or hidden from the public (at all costs).

Would love this story to be blown wide open with fresh new evidence so the real truth of what happened that night can finally come to light.

[chuff me dizzy]

I didn't know about this....like I said in my earlier post there is information that is being witheld or hidden from the public (at all costs).

Would love this story to be blown wide open with fresh new evidence so the real truth of what happened that night can finally come to light.

There is nothing of the real truth in Uk press, they are sanitizing it ot make the McCanns look innocent and victims ,they are far from that

[Vanessa]

There is nothing of the real truth in Uk press, they are sanitising it ot make the McCann look innocent and victims ,they are far from that

I think the truth will come out, sooner or later. Whatever that is.

[AnnieK]

There is nothing of the real truth in Uk press, they are sanitising it ot make the McCann look innocent and victims ,they are far from that

But why would the press do that though? Surely it would sell more papers if they could prove these conspiracy theories. (I'm not doubting your points her by the way Chuff, I just don't understand what possible hold the McCanns could have over the press and media if there is another possible news story that could easily be uncovered). They don't tend to dilute stories as a rule

[joeysteele]

I didn't know about this....like I said in my earlier post there is information that is being witheld or hidden from the public (at all costs).

Would love this story to be blown wide open with fresh new evidence so the real truth of what happened that night can finally come to light.

I think this whole case has really rotten smell to it, it goes out of the headlines then as sure as hens lay eggs,it comes back into the headlines again.
Usually however, with the scent off in all directions and one after another of goose chases being played out.

Whatever the whole story is as to this,I think, so many likely smokescreens have been the norm and loads of confusion set in place that to ever get to the bottom of it and more to the point solve anything as to it, will now be near impossible.

As I said in an earlier post, over the years here on tibb,I have been persuaded by Chuff's take on this, she seems to have really delved deep into it and comes up with what may unfortunately be the only possible take on this in the end.

[chuff me dizzy]

But why would the press do that though? Surely it would sell more papers if they could prove these conspiracy theories. (I'm not doubting your points her by the way Chuff, I just don't understand what possible hold the McCanns could have over the press and media if there is another possible news story that could easily be uncovered). They don't tend to dilute stories as a rule

Its so deep Annie,and so hard to explain ,but they ARE getting protection and have done from the first few days ,Gordon Brown sent his spokesman over to Pdl within days to cover their backs and hes been doing this job ever since, its a deep and very dirty case ,IF (and I dont think it ever will) this case ever does crack open it will be seen as the crime of the decade,with so many involved

[AnnieK]

Its so deep Annie,and so hard to explain ,but they ARE getting protection and have done from the first few days ,Gordon Brown sent his spokesman over to Pdl within days to cover their backs and hes been doing this job ever since, its a deep and very dirty case ,IF (and I dont think it ever will) this case ever does crack open it will be seen as the crime of the decade,with so many involved

So do you not think that we will ever get a conclusion to the case, one way or the other?

[chuff me dizzy]

I think this whole case has really rotten smell to it, it goes out of the headlines then as sure as hens lay eggs,it comes back into the headlines again.
Usually however, with the scent off in all directions and one after another of goose chases being played out.

Whatever the whole story is as to this,I think, so many likely smokescreens have been the norm and loads of confusion set in place that to ever get to the bottom of it and more to the point solve anything as to it, will now be near impossible.

As I said in an earlier post, over the years here on tibb,I have been persuaded by Chuff's take on this, she seems to have really delved deep into it and comes up with what may unfortunately be the only possible take on this in the end.

Joey Ive been on Maddie groups for nearly 7 years ,and have read all police files ,theres a lot of things I dont know a lot about, but this is one thing I do know about ,this case is as big and dirty as the Saville case, which was another case covered up by men in grey suits for decades ,even though people believed him to be a St ,he was proven to be the devil

[chuff me dizzy]

So do you not think that we will ever get a conclusion to the case, one way or the other?

In a word .....No ,not a hope in hell ,all this media hype about the dig ,is all a load of BS, made to convince the taxpayer that the £10m of our money is being used wisely, I tell you my opinion ( and hundreds of peoples in various groups Im in )The Uk police will point the finger at a dead man,make it as watertight as possible and that will be it ,case closed, and its a sin,Maddie is long forgotten