Obama rejects republicans offer again

[the truth]

Crikey only 2 days to go to find a deal or the USA defaults and fails to pay its money....the fiscal limit needs to be raised to 17.5 trillion dollars....much of which is owed to china , who have almost no debts. so much for communism being uncompetitive?

Ive heard of bluff and double bluff, but this has drawn out for ages

The reds are still after obamacare..which was passed over 3 years ago and ratified in the supreme court a year later...Obama would need to be dragged out of the white house kicking and screaming before compromising 1 inch on obamacare

joe public blames the republicans more, their approval rating is a record low 28% , the democrats are 53%

So the stand off goes on?

Its really hard to fathom what the republicans are trying to achieve now?
they preach about soldiers, yet this is hitting soldiers and ex soldiers hardest
, theyre attempting to derail healthcare which hits injured soldiers too, even soldiers graveyards have been closed off

they preach patriotism and business, yet this has cost the country billions already, it closed the grand canyon and the statue of liberty...its hurt the emergency services across America too

they preach foreign policy and supporting the troops, yet they demand massive government cutbacks at a time when theyre trying to grow their way out of a recession and rebuild an economy

they preach free market , yet all they do in reality is support anti competitive monopolies

anyway that's my biased rant, what do you lot reckon?

[Shaun]

Colbert put it best :laugh:

http://americablog.com/2013/10/stephen-colbert-debuts-game-govt-shutdown-board-game.html

[the truth]

Colbert put it best :laugh:

http://americablog.com/2013/10/stephen-colbert-debuts-game-govt-shutdown-board-game.html

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, these clowns are running America and to some extent, the world

[Kizzy]

Anti competitive monopolies... hmmm, that sounds familiar.
Not going to lie dont have the first clue how this American system works...
How are the republicans having such a dramatic impact if they are not in power?

[Nedusa]

Perhaps this part of a plan by the US to default on their 17.5 trillion dollar debt, bring down their currency and replace it with the Amero or some other new American currency to rival the Euro but with all debts wiped clean.

China, Japan and the other BRIC's Countries would not be too happy with that..

[Jesus.]

Anti competitive monopolies... hmmm, that sounds familiar.
Not going to lie dont have the first clue how this American system works...
How are the republicans having such a dramatic impact if they are not in power?

There are 3 branches of government in the us. The presidency, the senate, and the congress.

The democrats ave a majority in the senate and hold the presidency, the republicans have a majority in congress. In order for anything to become law in America, a bill needs to pass both houses, and be signed off by the presidency.

The founding fathers set it up like this way to ensure a system of meritocracy, and avoid implementing European style monarchies and church rulers that they'd fled from over here.

That's basically it in a nutshell. The tea party caucus is a minority of the minority, yet they are able to have the most say.

There are enough votes in the whole of congress to pass a bill, apart from 2 reasons:

Republicans now insist on adhering to the Hastert rule, which insists they will only bring a vote to the floor, if a majority of the majority support it. SO whilst a sane bill would pass in congress with both republican and democrat votes, because a majority of republicans don't support it, they refuse to bring it to the floor for a vote.

Also, the day before they shut the government down, they changed the rules of congress so that only the leader of the majority could bring bills to the floor. Prior to that, a democratic congressmen would be allowed to call for a vote, but they changed the rules, knowing what they were about to do.

[Jesus.]

Perhaps this part of a plan by the US to default on their 17.5 trillion dollar debt, bring down their currency and replace it with the Amero or some other new American currency to rival the Euro but with all debts wiped clean.

China, Japan and the other BRIC's Countries would not be too happy with that..

It's not at all, and that's magical thinking. It would be like defaulting on a mortgage. If they don't pay their bills, then these countries would say to the us government (which is currently the safest place to lend to in the world) that they want all of their money back, rather than a mortgage payment. The US would be bankrupt in minutes.

Debts don't wipe themselves clean that easily. You can't max out a credit card and get away with it by changing your address.

[smudgie]

There are 3 branches of government in the us. The presidency, the senate, and the congress.

The democrats ave a majority in the senate and hold the presidency, the republicans have a majority in congress. In order for anything to become law in America, a bill needs to pass both houses, and be signed off by the presidency.

The founding fathers set it up like this way to ensure a system of meritocracy, and avoid implementing European style monarchies and church rulers that they'd fled from over here.

That's basically it in a nutshell. The tea party caucus is a minority of the minority, yet they are able to have the most say.

There are enough votes in the whole of congress to pass a bill, apart from 2 reasons:

Republicans now insist on adhering to the Hastert rule, which insists they will only bring a vote to the floor, if a majority of the majority support it. SO whilst a sane bill would pass in congress with both republican and democrat votes, because a majority of republicans don't support it, they refuse to bring it to the floor for a vote.

Also, the day before they shut the government down, they changed the rules of congress so that only the leader of the majority could bring bills to the floor. Prior to that, a democratic congressmen would be allowed to call for a vote, but they changed the rules, knowing what they were about to do.

So have the Republicans tred to stuff the President but have ended up more or less stuffing themselves?

[Jesus.]

So have the Republicans tred to stuff the President but have ended up more or less stuffing themselves?

Basically, yes.

Although more importantly than that, about 80 extreme tea-party members in the party are stuffing the whole country.

[smudgie]

Basically, yes.

Although more importantly than that, about 80 extreme tea-party members in the party are stuffing the whole country.

Yeah, do they not have the ability to stop them or get them ousted from the party. All seems a bit ludicrous to me.

[Jesus.]

Yeah, do they not have the ability to stop them or get them ousted from the party. All seems a bit ludicrous to me.

The only way to oust them is through elections which are held every 2 years. However, when the republicans won a lot of seats in 2010, they started attacking democracy itself. Firstly, they tried to change voting criteria for minorities and students to vote (both traditional democratic voters), but more importantly than that, they've changed the voting districts in a process called gerrymandering. so they redraw the lines to ensure their constituents are more conservative voters, making them some of the safest seats in the country.

SO the fact these people are so crazy has no impact on their jobs, because they now only represent districts that are equally as crazy.

They get positive reinforcement in their districts, so it's nothing but a vicious cycle.

[lostalex]

There are 3 branches of government in the us. The presidency, the senate, and the congress.

The 3 branches are actually the President, the Congress(house and senate), and the Supreme Court.

I agree with everything else you said though. good explanation.

[Shaun]

Apparently a deal's been struck now.

[Vanessa]

That's great news.

[the truth]

when are those gun toting radical red neck tools ever going to realise Obama is the real deal....yet again the nice guy COMES FIRST

[lostalex]

when are those gun toting radical red neck tools ever going to realise Obama is the real deal....yet again the nice guy COMES FIRST

Obama had nothing to do with this. It was purely a Congress issue.

[Withano]

He won't trade boner his pokemon cards

[Withano]

pELWd_C5-kQ

[the truth]

Obama had nothing to do with this. It was purely a Congress issue.

He had everything to do with it, hes president, its his healthcare bill and his many regeneration programmes these crooks have been trying to derail for the past 3 years . he left congress to finish off the face off....nothing wrong with back seat driving. bravo mr president!

[Me. I Am Salman]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9pmyicuLz1qc0cqv.gif

[lostalex]

remember when the republicans blocked Hillary's healthcare bill in the 90's? they even called it hillarycare just like they now call the new healthcare bill obamacare.

Hillary would have been so much better than Obama.

[Kizzy]

Shame we don't have that system here... then Labour would been able to step in to stop dave and the chinless wonders from dismantling the country from the top down.
All we can do is wait and hope we have any kind of infrastructure left when they're done ...
I wish Obama well in this aggressive republican onslaught however.

[the truth]

remember when the republicans blocked Hillary's healthcare bill in the 90's? they even called it hillarycare just like they now call the new healthcare bill obamacare.

Hillary would have been so much better than Obama.

why on earth would anyone make such an absurd claim

This was the woman who went defeated by Obama (despite her starting light years ahead on money and power) said when asked by the media hack, why don't you quit now? you cant win , isn't it time the party unite behind Obama?

she went on to imply an assassination was still possible

So now we know why Hillary Clinton is staying in the race. Uttering one of the most outrageous public statements of any candidate who has run in this long and arduous presidential campaign, she told a South Dakota paper today: "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California

what has she achieved ? then compare to what Obama has achieved? she may not have even defeated McCain to start with....Obama is the man who delivered the healthcare bill for the 50 million....not Hilary or anyone else

[lostalex]

why on earth would anyone make such an absurd claim

This was the woman who went defeated by Obama (despite her starting light years ahead on money and power) said when asked by the media hack, why don't you quit now? you cant win , isn't it time the party unite behind Obama?

she went on to imply an assassination was still possible

So now we know why Hillary Clinton is staying in the race. Uttering one of the most outrageous public statements of any candidate who has run in this long and arduous presidential campaign, she told a South Dakota paper today: "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California

what has she achieved ? then compare to what Obama has achieved? she may not have even defeated McCain to start with....Obama is the man who delivered the healthcare bill for the 50 million....not Hilary or anyone else
she didn't start ahead of him. he's a man, she's a woman, so he started ahead of her.

remember that black men got the right to vote before white women had the right to vote in the US.

A black MAN still always starts ahead of a white woman. The US is much more sexist than it is racist.

[the truth]

she didn't start ahead of him. he's a man, she's a woman, so he started ahead of her.

remember that black men got the right to vote before white women had the right to vote in the US.

A black MAN still always starts ahead of a white woman.

oh there you go with your racist sexist drivel. This is the same country where black people were lynched enmasse and even unable to get a meal in the restaurants, targeted by police corruption etc etc etc for a split second I THOUGHT YOU ACTUALLY HAD SOMETHING INTELLIGENT TO SAY LOL:joker:

[lostalex]

I THOUGHT YOU ACTUALLY HAD SOMETHING INTELLIGENT TO SAY LOL:joker:

silly you.

[the truth]

silly you.

wont make that mistake again, your input here is yet again a tedious disgrace

[lostalex]

wont make that mistake again, your input here is yet again a tedious disgrace

obviously.

[Kizzy]

Now now girls.... :laugh:

[the truth]

Now now girls.... :laugh:

what you think kizzy? happy Obama and co got things moving?? the markets are better for it already and the poorest tens of millions get their basic healthcare:elephant: Its a great night for these deprived people:elephant:

[Kizzy]

It would seem so, what's the beef with these republicans then, are they annoyed that those too poor to pay are recieving the same level of healthcare they pay for?

[lostalex]

It would seem so, what's the beef with these republicans then, are they annoyed that those too poor to pay are recieving the same level of healthcare they pay for?

no, they are just afraid that the good healthcare they have is going to be diminished by sharing it with others. which is an understandable concern to have. It's not a legitimate concern when you actually spend time looking at the facts, but it's understandable why some people would want to protect a good thing that they already have. That's how republicans feel, and it's how people that already have good healthcare feel.

The same reason why so many Brits are so scared of immigration, and there is such a push to limit immigration to the UK. When people have something good, they don't want to share. It's a very natural reaction for humans.

[the truth]

It would seem so, what's the beef with these republicans then, are they annoyed that those too poor to pay are recieving the same level of healthcare they pay for?

Theyre all multi multi multi millionaires who are in government merely as puppets for the corporate giants who want as much control of the market share as possible. And healthcare , along with weaponry is the biggest market of them all. No doubt many of them have direct investments in private health suppliers too. its an open conspiracy....these same selfish loons preach all every day about the troops and the flag and the 911 firemen heroes....yet they want to reduce their salaries, destroy their healthcare coverage, close down their cemetaries and reduce funding to military hospitals too

[the truth]

no, they are just afraid that the good healthcare they have is going to be diminished by sharing it with others. which is an understandable concern to have. It's not a legitimate concern when you actually spend time looking at the facts, but it's understandable why some people would want to protect a good thing that they already have. That's how republicans feel, and it's how people that already have good healthcare feel.

The same reason why so many Brits are so scared of immigration, and there is such a push to limit immigration to the UK. When people have something good, they don't want to share. It's a very natural reaction for humans.

No its nothing like uk immigration at all. these people are American citizens, they pay their taxes and have the same rights as fellow americans rich or poor, they should have basic healthcare protection. this isn't about the mega rich scared their healthcare will worsen. Its more about pandering to the massive private health care corporations who want to monopolise the enormous trillion dollar plus American healthcare market.

I do however accept there are legitimate fears of a massive health service as we see in so many nations. America though will now have a 2 tier system where basic healthcare is provided but so too is access to more expensive expertise, so this wont affect the service to the mega rich

[Kizzy]

No different to our tories then?
Greedy, selfish, self serving arses....
They can continue to pay and recieve a decent level of care than is offered in the 'basic package' as it were though?
Like us we have BUPA and such for those who wish to have better facilities and access to specialists?

[the truth]

No different to our tories then?
Greedy, selfish, self serving arses....
They can continue to pay and recieve a decent level of care than is offered in the 'basic package' as it were though?
Like us we have BUPA and such for those who wish to have better facilities and access to specialists?

probably far worse as we at least have the NHS thanks to giants like aneurin bevan

I don't think the nhs is safer under labour or tories
under tories you have cutbacks
under labour you have waste , lies and cover ups

in America its good that healthcare and he massive debt ceiling and the government is held to account for these spiralling debts.

but the trouble is the radical republicans are doing damage to the recovery, which in turn is affecting the gdp growth which stalls the debt repayment

these 100 or so republicans do not give a damn about America or americans, all they care about is themselves and their millionaire backers

obamacare is for the masses the poorest masses....not only do they have a right to this basic healthcare, it will also make America a stronger healthier nation....people will live longer work longer produce more too....all of which strengthens the economy too

[lostalex]

No its nothing like uk immigration at all. these people are American citizens, they pay their taxes and have the same rights as fellow americans rich or poor, they should have basic healthcare protection. this isn't about the mega rich scared their healthcare will worsen. Its more about pandering to the massive private health care corporations who want to monopolise the enormous trillion dollar plus American healthcare market.

I do however accept there are legitimate fears of a massive health service as we see in so many nations. America though will now have a 2 tier system where basic healthcare is provided but so too is access to more expensive expertise, so this wont affect the service to the mega rich

It's exactly the same.

I want what's mine, and everyone else can **** off.

[Kizzy]

Ah yes, I see truth....
Shocking attitude, the 5 ills still affecting society today, it's like social reform never happened....
Actually in the US it's fair to say it never fully did until now.
I can't see America going for 'the greater good' though somehow can you?

[lostalex]

Ah yes, I see truth....
Shocking attitude, the 5 ills still affecting society today, it's like social reform never happened....
Actually in the US it's fair to say it never fully did until now.
I can't see America going for 'the greater good' though somehow can you?
well america has certainly been more compassionate towards migrants than any european nation. we have over 10 million illegal immigrants, how many do you have? but the UK says they have an immigration problem?? LOL

but we are the racists.

[the truth]

well america has certainly been more compassionate towards migrants than any european nation. we have over 10 million illegal immigrants, how many do you have? but the UK says they have an immigration problem?? LOL

but we are the racists.

who called America racist on this thread? no one

America is 5 to 6 times the size of the UK
and the immigration based on these ratios is very similar. I.e. usa has 10 million + UK has more than 2 million

in terms of land, USA is massive and probably 40 times the size of UK, so the UK is far more over populated, especially the south east

[the truth]

It's exactly the same.

I want what's mine, and everyone else can **** off.


no its not the same, its 2 completely different things?
the radical right are seeking more financial gain for themselves and their small pool of millionaire backers. its nothing to do with them caring about healthcare at all, its about money, period.

[Kizzy]

America is about 1000x the size of Britain to be fair...
You have to look at the bigger picture, when whole cities like Detroit are going bankrupt it's a sign someone needs to act.
Destitution, vagrancy, squalor and disease are not to be tolerated.
If Obama has decided to make changes in social reform I believe it should be applauded and encouraged not stamped out.
How will the US ever achieve an ordered civilized society without action?

[the truth]

America is about 1000x the size of Britain to be fair...
You have to look at the bigger picture, when whole cities like Detroit are going bankrupt it's a sign someone needs to act.
Destitution, vagrancy, squalor and disease are not to be tolerated.
If Obama has decided to make changes in social reform I believe it should be applauded and encouraged not stamped out.
How will the US ever achieve an ordered civilized society without action?

democratic presidents and parties have attempted to get healthcare for the poorer people for most of the past century and all have failed. Obama has succeeded and yet he is slaughtered by he right and this remarkable achievement isn't given the credit it deserves. yes it costs more money per person, but the amount it costs rich people is absolutely tiny (miniscule) compared to their incomes. I cant understand why anyone would want to see 50 million people die on the streets around them with no health care? what kind of hell on earth is that? the people who have fought tooth and nail to destroy healthcare for the poor for decades are sadists

though I do add an addendum to that.....socialised medial health care is not the be all and end all....the UK NHS and those around the world all full of cover ups, waste and corruption leading to tens of thousands of neglect and in some cases unnecessary deaths. Therefore I like to see checks and balances. however the republican party has been hijacked by maniacs, cartoon villains who spout the same slogan politics and prepared clichés.....were against big government etc etc they need to move nearer the centre, start pushing the intellects to lead the party....they need to get back to representing the people not the corporations. of course most of these mupets will be booted out in the next few years anyway

but at this rate the reds wont get back to power for decades

[lostalex]

America is about 1000x the size of Britain to be fair...


1 billion trillion million times the size.