Human nature: will we ever be truly 'civilised'?

[Kyle]

What is your opinion of 'human nature'

Are we as a species 'civilised'?

If not, will we ever be?

Is cruelty a defect or just a lack of empathy?

[Marc]

No

As long as religions exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

[Kizzy]

We are a product of our environment.

[Kyle]

No

As long as religion exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

I agree about religion. Organised religion in my opinion has shackled humanity for far too long.

[fingers]

I would just change one word in Marc's post by adding an "s" to religion.

[Marc]

Ah well I did mean all of them

[fingers]

I thought you did! :devil:

[arista]

What is your opinion of 'human nature'

Are we as a species 'civilised'?

If not, will we ever be?

Is cruelty a defect or just a lack of empathy?


Some Nations
are not (by western views)
but they are set in their old way.
So Afghan Woman are at the level
of a Dog or below.



Now that nation has gone back in time
and said this is how we want it to be
now as the murdering USA /UK troops are going.


So for them it is a way of Life
Not a Defect.

[Stu]

I believe that our carnal nature has driven us to physical division and conflict whilst our egos have pushed us to spiritual division and conflict. I take stock in theories that involve all of us together needing to reawaken and elevate our one consciousness to the next level through mindfulness, well being, meditation and treating others well.

We need to supercede these notions that we are in any way separate from one another. By harming each other and harming the environment we are harming ourselves and sending out negative, destructive forces be they in the material realm or in the realm of consciousness. Anything that isn't love is simply a corruption of love.

We've dragged our bodies out of the swamps but clearly our minds are still playing a catch up game. We have an enormous wealth of culture and technology but these facets of existence are transitory and not enough on their own to validate our apparent greatness or stop us from being a mammal that is constantly waging a war with itself. It's not our nature. We need to reach towards something more ethereal and substantial than our current goals of administrating money and improving technology. We take ourselves far too seriously. Stu is nothing more than the lens that this piece of the consciousness is viewing the world through. I am but a fleeting expression of the universe. A damn handsome one, at that.

EG4NP8bldJg

Be nice to one another I suppose, like. I'm Jesus now everyone follow me.

[Kazanne]

What is your opinion of 'human nature'

Are we as a species 'civilised'?

If not, will we ever be?

Is cruelty a defect or just a lack of empathy?

No,simply because of our over inflated egos of ourselves,we THINK we are better than any other living thing,we ride rough shod over everything that gets in our way,cruelty will never be ruled out as we think we have a right over anything and everything.

[arista]

"We take ourselves far too seriously. "


Bang On Right Stu

[Kizzy]

As Bill and Ted said 'Be excellent to each other'

[Shaun]

There are just as many arguments for civilisation (state welfare, government, charity, a sense of history and geography) as there are those for a lack of it (bigotry, war, ego).

"Best not to worry about it" - the Shaun Collins philosophy

[thesheriff443]

no, some hunt for food and some hunt for sport, to kill an animal for no other reason than to inflate your ego, means some choose to be uncivilised.

[Tom4784]

We're ***** by nature and nothing will ever change that, there will always be bad, you just got to try and focus on the good.

[arista]

no, some hunt for food and some hunt for sport, to kill an animal for no other reason than to inflate your ego, means some choose to be uncivilised.



But thats Tradition

[arista]

We're ***** by nature and nothing will ever change that, there will always be bad, you just got to try and focus on the good.


You Are Most Wise Dezzy

[arista]

There are just as many arguments for civilisation (state welfare, government, charity, a sense of history and geography) as there are those for a lack of it (bigotry, war, ego).

"Best not to worry about it" - the Shaun Collins philosophy


Yes I will Dip You in my Cup of Stu


Hell of a Buzz

http://data3.whicdn.com/images/23250280/16da8a88730ada562754a0985a96a04d_large.jpg

[Kizzy]

We are not s**** there should be more philanthropy and altruism but as a whole I would say the UK is still 'civilised', has amazing spirit determination and drive.
The only thing that could change that is further strain on the family, housing and work lives of society. Which would force more and more people to live in conditions that makes civility unattainable.
That's when the giants will walk again, and that is a horrific thought.

[Kizzy]

Well the BBC article 'Are conspiracy theories ruining democracy?'... is very telling.
Don't question the powers that B ( BC)!!

[Kyle]

We are not s**** there should be more philanthropy and altruism but as a whole I would say the UK is still 'civilised', has amazing spirit determination and drive.
The only thing that could change that is further strain on the family, housing and work lives of society. Which would force more and more people to live in conditions that makes civility unattainable.
That's when the giants will walk again, and that is a horrific thought.

That's what worries me the most. Sometimes you don't know what sort of species your dealing with until the veneer of civilisation is torn away from them. At the root of it in general we are still animals driven by the need to eat, sleep, copulate etc.

[Me. I Am Salman]

No

As long as religions exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

This is the stupidest claim ever, why do people keep saying it. Without religion there would definitely be more social disorder, it's extremism that needs to stop

People who say this are usually just jumping on a bandwagon and not making any attempt to try and think

[Kyle]

This is the stupidest claim ever, why do people keep saying it. Without religion there would definitely be more social disorder, it's extremism that needs to stop

Why would there be more social disorder? Are us atheists immoral vagabonds or something?

[Me. I Am Salman]

Why would there be more social disorder? Are us atheists immoral vagabonds or something?

Stop playing the defensive atheist, I didn't say any of that I'm just saying that religion holds people down

[Kyle]

Stop playing the defensive atheist, I didn't say any of that I'm just saying that religion holds people down

You said without religion there would be more social disorder.


I would thus conclude from that you mean to ascertain atheists lack morality in comparison with theists.

[Kizzy]

Stop playing the defensive atheist, I didn't say any of that I'm just saying that religion holds people down

Wrong, civility holds people up not down. religion is exploited by evil people.
We are all animals but humans are the only animals who take more than they need.

[Stu]

This is the stupidest claim ever
It's really not. You can dispute a church's role in shaping and structuring societies and civilisations versus the comparative harm they have wrought but any usefulness that the major world religions may have had in the past has long evaporated.

I'm hardly atheist by any stretch of the imagination but apart from a new spiritual order I would much rather a world ran by atheists. Organized religion in it's current guise is an antiquated blight on consciousness. Systems of societal control and nothing more.

[Kizzy]

It's really not. You can dispute a church's role in shaping and structuring societies and civilisations versus the comparative harm they have wrought but any usefulness that the major world religions may have had in the past has long evaporated.

I'm hardly atheist by any stretch of the imagination but apart from a new spiritual order I would much rather a world ran by atheists. Organized religion in it's current guise is an antiquated blight on consciousness. Systems of societal control and nothing more.

Could you repeat that in words of 3 syllables or less? ;)

[Me. I Am Salman]

It's really not. You can dispute a church's role in shaping and structuring societies and civilisations versus the comparative harm they have wrought but any usefulness that the major world religions may have had in the past has long evaporated.

I'm hardly atheist by any stretch of the imagination but apart from a new spiritual order I would much rather a world ran by atheists. Organized religion in it's current guise is an antiquated blight on consciousness. Systems of societal control and nothing more.

I can see why religion controlling the world can be problematic

I just mean it's important it exists in some form

[Stu]

Fair enough. I'm of the opinion that heavy dogmas, big books, special outfits and stained glass windows distract people from actual instinctual spirituality though.

[Kizzy]

Civilisations existed in harmony prior to religion, theres no reason to believe the emergence of religion made anything better..

[Kyle]

If anyone needs a fine example of both sides of the coin regarding are we civilised I watched a video on youtube about a group of monkeys who lived indoors under captivity for 30 years being released into a much larger outdoor reservation.

Seeing the look of astonishment on their faces as the door slid open and sunlight hit them for the first time nearly brought a tear to my eye. How can a rational human being lack the compassion to keep an animal caged up like that is beyond me.

[lostalex]

Spend some time on a site called http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/ and you will truly lose all faith in "civilized society".

[Kyle]

I can see why religion controlling the world can be problematic

I just mean it's important it exists in some form

This is a debate and I welcome your contribution just as much as any other persons even though I disagree.

Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if all organised religion followed the Dodo into extinction but fair play Salman.

[Kizzy]

Fair enough. I'm of the opinion that heavy dogmas, big books, special outfits and stained glass windows distract people from actual instinctual spirituality though.

Hallelujah!! :joker: agree 100%

[Ninastar]

no. there will always be religious extremists who believe there is no other way.

[Kyle]

Let's be fair here though, our attitude towards chosen faiths isn't the only thing that stops us from achieving social parity.

Attitude towards other human beings

Attitudes towards other sentient beings

And

Attitudes to towards the planet

Are all major sticking points still.

All we as humans seem to be good at is inventing better ways to kill each other.

[Me. I Am Salman]

You said without religion there would be more social disorder.


I would thus conclude from that you mean to ascertain atheists lack morality in comparison with theists.

Religion when followed correctly instils morals, I'm not saying it's the only institution that does that I'm saying it's one of them. So it's just common sense to assume if it didn't exist then crime rates would increase, because not everyone has access to other institutions like education, or are influenced strongly enough by other institutions (like you aren't influenced by religion)

or something like that. Ugh I cba to think don't put me on the spot I know what I said http://31.media.tumblr.com/68ebd919306e06e91906941782ffb0e4/tumblr_mupn8rcHcv1qk7scno2_250.gif

[Kyle]

Religion when followed correctly instils morals, I'm not saying it's the only institution that does that I'm saying it's one of them. So it's just common sense to assume if it didn't exist then crime rates would increase, because not everyone has access to other institutions like education, or are influenced strongly enough by other institutions (like you aren't influenced by religion)

or something like that. Ugh I cba to think don't put me on the spot I know what I said http://31.media.tumblr.com/68ebd919306e06e91906941782ffb0e4/tumblr_mupn8rcHcv1qk7scno2_250.gif

Are you trying to instigate a bitch fight on my thread? :hugesmile:

[Ammi]

..I believe that people are intrinsically good, but there are ‘bad’ people, of course... there is good and bad in most things but if there wasn’t so much good, far more than there is 'bad or evil’ then the world would be a much worse place than it is..so far as religion goes, I’m not personally religious through choice but I was brought up in a faith.. and I know many, many ‘good christian’ people...people whose faith makes them better people and gives them strength to cope with what they need to when life sucks a bit and also gives them the understanding of compassion for others and less self absorbed... so for some people, many people I would say that religion is good and positive...we all need something to ‘believe in’ , whether it be our families, friends, faith etc....there are of course extremists and those extremists are what causes ‘the bad/evil etc’ not the religion itself imo....



..a quote I love is from a Dali Lama.... “My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.”...

[lostalex]

..a quote I love is from a Dali Lama.... “My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.”...

Didn't the Dali Lama also once say that homosexuality is wrong and is against nature?

"the exiled Tibetan leader said at a press conference yesterday in San Francisco. "From a Buddhist point of view, men-to-men and women-to-women is generally considered sexual misconduct."

"The Dalai Lama said the same Buddhist scripture that advises against gay and lesbian sex also urges heterosexuals to refrain from oral sex, anal sex and masturbation. "Even with your own wife, using one's mouth or the other hole is sexual misconduct," he said. "Using one's hand, that is sexual misconduct."

So it sounds like Buddhists are just like Christians in their beliefs about homosexuality. That's not a good thing. Basically a "hate the sin, love the sinner" type of mentality. They are basically against any sex that is not a man and a woman having vaginal intercourse for procreation.

[Kyle]

A religion of kindness.....unless your gay.

[Verbal]

Organised religion can and does provide a grounding for people, and can also be at the center of a community of people who without it would have nothing. What I don't understand is why Atheists feel the need to get on their high horses and exclaim from the mountain tops 'there is no God, you dip****s' deal with it! Religion is far, far more than that.

Atheists mind your own damn business.

[Kyle]

Organised religion can and does provide a grounding for people, and can also be at the center of a community of people who without it would have nothing. What I don't understand is why Atheists feel the need to get on their high horses and exclaim from the mountain tops 'there is no God, you dip****s' deal with it! Religion is far, far more than that.

Atheists mind your own damn business.

People are all allowed their own opinions on whether God exists or not just as I am entitled to my opinion that religion is an archaic waste of time. Just my opinion, take it or stuff it.

[Verbal]

People are all allowed their own opinions on whether God exists or not just as I am entitled to my opinion that religion is an archaic waste of time. Just my opinion, take it or stuff it.

There is a difference between stating your opinion and belittling people who have these beliefs. Its not hurting you if people want Religion to be part of their lives. Mind your own business.

[Kyle]

That is just simply not true. Stop being a dick. The Dalai Lama does not speak for all Buddhists, he's not a Pope, figure. The ONLY place in Buddhism where homosexuality is explicity forbidden is in the Vinaya, which is Buddhist monastic rules. In short, it applies to monks and nuns only. Then again, all sex is forbidden to monks and nuns.

Someone's been fishing for quotes I'm sure I just read something pretty much the same as that 5 minutes ago.

[Kyle]

There is a difference between stating your opinion and belittling people who have these beliefs. Its not hurting you if people want Religion to be part of their lives. Mind your own business.

If my opinion belittles you so be it it is my opinion, it is representative of me only.

[Verbal]

If my opinion belittles you so be it it is my opinion, it is representative of me only.

I wasnt directly referring to you, i've barely skimmed this thread. I've just seen a few people belittling people for being Religious. That is not expressing your opinion. At least not in an intelligent way.

[Verbal]

Someone's been fishing for quotes I'm sure I just read something pretty much the same as that 5 minutes ago.

Yes I copied and pasted the last bit as it goes

[lostalex]

That is just simply not true. Stop being a dick. The Dalai Lama does not speak for all Buddhists, he's not a Pope, figure. The ONLY place in Buddhism where homosexuality is explicity forbidden is in the Vinaya, which is Buddhist monastic rules. In short, it applies to monks and nuns only. Then again, all sex is forbidden to monks and nuns.

but if buddhism believes that all people are equal, why would there be different rules for different people? That's a bit puzzling, don't you think?

[Roy Mars III]

No

As long as religions exists we'll never be civilised or live in harmony.

bull****

[Roy Mars III]

If religion was not around, something else would replace it. Human being are creatures of violence, hatred and conquest, religion or not. If anything religion helps more than it hurts.

[Roy Mars III]

Buddism has just as much violence in its history than any other religion

[Ninastar]

If religion was not around, something else would replace it. Human being are creatures of violence, hatred and conquest, religion or not. If anything religion helps more than it hurts.

i agree in a way...

Religious extremists make people believe that all religious people/religions are like that.

and about this whole hating gays thing... They don't hate gays (for the most part) they just don't believe in them getting married.

perhaps the last part is reaching... this is just the case with all the religious people I know. Including a pastor in America.

[Verbal]

but if buddhism believes that all people are equal, why would there be different rules for different people? That's a bit puzzling, don't you think?

Not sure what you're getting at, could you be more specific please?

[Kyle]

bull****

He's right. Religion is a fantastic tool for exploitation and diversity.

If organised religion still has power there is no chance whatsoever of unity

Not saying that humanity is capable of harmony because it is incredibly likely that it is not but the chance is reduced whilst different religions hold power in people's everyday lives.

[lostalex]

Not sure what you're getting at, could you be more specific please?

someone mentioned that buddhists aren't against homosexuality for all people, just for certain priests. I was referring to that.

[Marc]

bull****

So yoooooou... disagree? :laugh:

[Roy Mars III]

He's right. Religion is a fantastic tool for exploitation and diversity.

If organised religion still has power there is no chance whatsoever of unity

Not saying that humanity is capable of harmony because it is incredibly likely that it is not but the chance is reduced whilst different religions hold power in people's everyday lives.

Sure it is, but things would not be any better without it. Ideas are powerful and they can be twisted whether it's religion, nationalism, or liberalism. People naturally want to believe in something whether it is themselves, a God, or a nation. Nothing will ever change no matter how much people pretend we are 'progressing'

[Me. I Am Salman]

People who think all the worlds problems will automatically disappear with religion need a reality check

[Marc]

Okay Salman, but that's not contributing is it, you're just baiting now.

[Me. I Am Salman]

How tf am I baiting :conf2: it's a genuine view, and I'm passionate about it because I feel offended since I'm religious

[Marc]

Yeah but you can just stick with posting what you've already posted rather than just say that people need a 'reality check', which doesn't contribute to anything. You've had your say and if somebody cares to read it, they can. Throwing in the odd insult won't help

[Roy Mars III]

People talk about how religious people discriminate against people, yet religious people are discriminated against just as much but that's okay for whatever reason

[Verbal]

Okay Salman, but that's not contributing is it, you're just baiting now.

But there are people on here saying the opposite to Salman who are also baiting. If people want to be religious that is there business and it should not be ridiculed by uninformed sensationalism.

[Verbal]

People talk about how religious people discriminate against people, yet religious people are discriminated against just as much but that's okay for whatever reason

Absolutely agree

[Kyle]

Sure it is, but things would not be any better without it. Ideas are powerful and they can be twisted whether it's religion, nationalism, or liberalism. People naturally want to believe in something whether it is themselves, a God, or a nation. Nothing will ever change no matter how much people pretend we are 'progressing'

If people desperately want to believe in something then I would argue that religion has exploited the very human nature. I don't doubt that for a second btw I an aware that a lot of people look to things for solace/guidance etc.

But in my eyes religion has burned too many bridges. Religion is in essence 'this is what happened, everything my teachings say are real and everybody else is wrong' and such a core belief as that is divisive.

I'm not surprised people have a problem with religion, as a species our progression has been shackled by its influence for far too long and we are fortunate that where we live we are able to question things without being branded heretics or maligned.

[Kizzy]

I'm not an atheist, but the men in frocks? ...no, no ,no.
Whether you worship god or the goddess both or neither, it's cool with me.
That's my view, if you take comfort from it great, if you are undecided fine... It's all the NO!.. THAT'S WRONG!... STOP THAT!.... DO THIS!
I don't like.

[lostalex]

People talk about how religious people discriminate against people, yet religious people are discriminated against just as much but that's okay for whatever reason

BUt, religious people are MOSTLY discriminated against by OTHER religious people for having a different religion, not by non-religious people or atheists.

[Kyle]

People who think all the worlds problems will automatically disappear with religion need a reality check

Nobody is saying that.

This is a topic about human nature and civilisation.

Some people believe that organised religion and it's influence is part of a plethora of problems preventing us from ever attaining a real sense of unity.

[Stu]

Nothing will ever change no matter how much people pretend we are 'progressing'
That's quite a cynical viewpoint. The world is far from perfect and I am lucky to be in a rather nice part of it but I would much rather be here today than in plenty of generations and civilizations in the past. I do genuinely think we can sort ourselves out and establish an equilibrium with this planet. Judging by the responses in this thread I feel like one of the only optimistic ones in here.

We can absolutely evolve consciousness and explore space - both inner and outer - together in peace. It's a tough sell but that's no reason not to sell it.

[Roy Mars III]

BUt, religious people are MOSTLY discriminated against by OTHER religious people for having a different religion, not by non-religious people or atheists.

I disagree. I have met very few atheists who did not discriminate against religious people and vice versa

[Stu]

Then the atheists you met were out and out dickheads and it's quite clear that they have colored your view of the whole thing, unfortunately.

Most of my friends are atheist and none of them give a hoot what anybody else believes.

[Me. I Am Salman]

BUt, religious people are MOSTLY discriminated against by OTHER religious people for having a different religion, not by non-religious people or atheists.

Well my religion teaches me to be accepting, in fact it's a sin to discriminate people because they have other beliefs.

[Ninastar]

I disagree. I have met very few atheists who did not discriminate against religious people and vice versa

i have them same problem.

[Kyle]

I disagree. I have met very few atheists who did not discriminate against religious people and vice versa

Don't worry I'm sure it will never get to the point where people are burnt at the stake for being religious.

[lostalex]

I disagree. I have met very few atheists who did not discriminate against religious people

really? that sounds shocking, i'm sure you have some examples to share with me, because i haven't seen that at all.

Can you name any cases you know of where atheists tried to force religious people into camps and convert them to atheism?(i can find plenty of cases where religious people have done that to atheists)

Can you name any cases where atheists tried to force religious people to denounce their god under the law? (I can name several cases of religious people doing that to atheists)

I'm talking about the modern Western World by the way, obviously.

[Gstar]

Religion isn't the only thing though

What about the government, war, racism etc.

[Ninastar]

People talk about how religious people discriminate against people, yet religious people are discriminated against just as much but that's okay for whatever reason

also i believe this is 100% true.

[Stu]

Don't worry I'm sure it will never get to the point where people are burnt at the stake for being religious.
Considering the evils that religious institutions have enacted on the human mind and body in the past I have very little sympathy for the poor armchair religionists who feel persecuted by YouTube comment warriors telling them there is no god.

Poor creatures. Give me a break.

[Kyle]

Religion isn't the only thing though

What about the government, war, racism etc.

As I have said about 3 times before in this thread religion shouldn't take all the flack by any means.

Religion is a hot topic though and opinions are always very strong on the matter so it's no surprise it's turned into a debate about that.

[lostalex]

I have as much contempt for religion, especially fundamentalist religion as anyone on this world, but do i want the Westboro Baptist Church(the god hates fags people) to go to jail for their hate speech? never. Would i want them to be forced to denounce their religion, or be forced to apologize to me or any other person they have offended? no. Why? because as loathsome as their ideology is, they have been peaceful. As long as you are peaceful, as long as you don't actually have power to force your religion onto the rest of us, i will respect your right to be offensive, and religion is hate speech, all of it. I can't name a single religion that doesn't have some sort of discrimination or hate speech in it's ideology, but as long as it's peaceful, i can tolerate it.

And they must learn to tolerate all of the people they disagree with in a peaceful way aswell.

[Kyle]

Considering the evils that religious institutions have enacted on the human mind and body in the past I have very little sympathy for the poor armchair religionists who feel persecuted by YouTube comment warriors telling them there is no god.

Poor creatures. Give me a break.

Listen I can't speak for the guys in the U.S I don't live there and I've never been so I have no idea what it's like for them.

But where I'm from in the U.K I honestly can't see persecution of religious people, at least by atheists. The only thing I can think of is occasional attacks by E.D.L extremists on mosques but they have the intelligence of a cardboard box and only seem to have it in for Islam.

[Jack_]

People talk about how religious people discriminate against people, yet religious people are discriminated against just as much but that's okay for whatever reason

I disagree, I have absolutely no problem with religious people, in fact I couldn't give a ****** what people want to believe in and in all honesty religious beliefs do have positive functions, but what I don't like and oppose is organised religion, religion having power and influence over governments and social policies and the indoctrination and forcefulness it can sometimes have through things like faith schools and parents telling their children what to believe

Religion should be a private and personal belief which arises out of your own choice after questioning yourself about the world around you

I have no issue with religious people whatsoever, but I disagree that opposing the stuff I've listed means I'm discriminating against them. Criticising their actual religion maybe, but criticising their choice to be religious? No

[lostalex]

also i believe this is 100% true.

really? you agree that religious people are discriminated against JUST AS MUCH?

I don't think the facts will back you guys up on that. To say that atheists have discriminated against religious people JUST AS MUCH as they discriminate against women, against gays, against other religions, i just don't believe that to be true. Certainly not from what i've witnessed in this lifetime.

[Gstar]

I actually agree with what Lostalex said

[Kizzy]

Verbal just stick to the discussion I'm sure SM wouldn't want you drawn out and risk derailing a great thread.
I've really enjoyed reading everyones views on this topic.

[Kyle]

Verbal just stick to the discussion I'm sure SM wouldn't want you drawn out and risk derailing a great thread.
I've really enjoyed reading everyones views on this topic.

I don't want anyone to get banned more than anything I'm not really bothered about the thread being derailed, I've derailed enough people's threads in my time on here lol

[Roy Mars III]

I was talking about discrimination, the examples you are talking about are a lot more serious than what I would call discrimination.

I hesitate to get into this, but whatever

The two biggest tragedies of recent history have been done by non religious people. Hitler* (religion is replaced by National Socialism) and the Soviet Union (though I am sure this will be debated because arguably none of it was done in the 'name of atheism' thus should not be considered)

*No matter what some people argue Hitler was anti-Christian (though he tried to hide this). The Nazi party did call itself a Catholic Party in the early years but that had more to do with getting more people from Catholic Bavaria to join the Nazi Party than actually being a religious party.

I am no religious apologist, it is responsible for some terrible things but history would be no less violent without it. People are violent, simple as.

[Verbal]

I've made my point

As you were

[Kyle]

I've made my point

As you were

And I'm sure you have many more to make on this topic. I'd rather you still contributed to the debate.

[Kizzy]

I'm not an atheist, but I have a great distrust of religious people... not even sure why myself.
I feel it's a cover for something lol! Doing what you feel is right for you is excellent... When you force others to conform it becomes wrong.
Impacting on others in the name of religion is wrong. Civility, morality and unity is achievable without religion.

[Roy Mars III]

I was talking about discrimination, the examples you are talking about are a lot more serious than what I would call discrimination.

I hesitate to get into this, but whatever

The two biggest tragedies of recent history have been done by non religious people. Hitler* (religion is replaced by National Socialism) and the Soviet Union (though I am sure this will be debated because arguably none of it was done in the 'name of atheism' thus should not be considered)

*No matter what some people argue Hitler was anti-Christian (though he tried to hide this). The Nazi party did call itself a Catholic Party in the early years but that had more to do with getting more people from Catholic Bavaria to join the Nazi Party than actually being a religious party.

I am no religious apologist, it is responsible for some terrible things but history would be no less violent without it. People are violent, simple as.

I did not mean for this to be examples of atheist violence against religious people, only that people would be just as violent without religion

Religion is just a good tool to control people, but there are many others

[Kyle]

I agree with your point Kizzy but religion has had enough of a bashing in my opinion and for the religious contributers like Salman I don't think it's fair on him.

I want to try another aspect of our nature if I may?

Are we inherently racist?

Bear with me on this I am just asking the question. We see with animals that in a lot of cases they tend to stick with their own social groups and genus. Personally I see it too with a pretty large majority of people in relationships (there are exceptions of course).

Is it inbuilt within us to generally stick with our own ethnicity? Is a small part to play on this part of our animalistic approach to sex and reproduction?

I welcome your opinions on this...

[Stu]

I'd say inherently tribal is more exact. Racism is a manifestation of this.

[Kyle]

I'd said inherently tribal is more exact. Racism is a manifestation of this.

Stu I like your contributions on these threads and I know what point you are making here but could you beef it out a little for us. Are we still as Tribal now as we were during the Colonial era? What constitutes tribal? Can people of the same ethnicity be separated by tribes?

[Roy Mars III]

I agree with your point Kizzy but religion has had enough of a bashing in my opinion and for the religious contributers like Salman I don't think it's fair on him.

I want to try another aspect of our nature if I may?

Are we inherently racist?

Bear with me on this I am just asking the question. We see with animals that in a lot of cases they tend to stick with their own social groups and genus. Personally I see it too with a pretty large majority of people in relationships (there are exceptions of course).

Is it inbuilt within us to generally stick with our own ethnicity? Is a small part to play on this part of our animalistic approach to sex and reproduction?

I welcome your opinions on this...

People like feeling comfortable, and they feel most comfortable around people who look and think like them

don't know if that should be considered racism or not

[Kyle]

People like feeling comfortable, and they feel most comfortable around people who look and think like them

don't know if that should be considered racism or not

Yeh I realise in my eagerness to divert the subject a little I may have used a word that's a bit too evocative of slavery and other past demeanours. I assure you I did not mean for that.

I think you and Stu illustrated it a bit better.

Do you think it's in our make up or it's a trait that with time and hundreds of years of multiculturalism we can 'grow out of' for want of a better phrase?

[Stu]

Stu I like your contributions on these threads and I know what point you are making here but could you beef it out a little for us. Are we still as Tribal now as we were during the Colonial era? What constitutes tribal? Can people of the same ethnicity be separated by tribes?
Tribalism is something that seemingly mutates as we do. As cultures and technologies become increasingly sophisticated tribalism denatures from it's more obvious expressions into more insidious forms. So it's different for all parts of the globe really. Some parts of the world still have very obvious incarnations of hunter gatherer tribalism whilst here in the Western world it is trickier to pinpoint but still existent under our hoods.

Street gangs are an expression of tribalism. To an extent churches can be an expression of tribalism. Tribalism has even transformed to find a place in consumerism when you think about it. Marketing and advertising create tribalism between different classes and aesthetics. Bob has an Xbox and Billy has a PlayStation. My dad has a suit and your dad has a shitty car that can barely run.

In the modern world it's less of a physically damaging, violent tribalism. Instead it's a tribalism of the ego. The end result still involves our base carnal nature prevailing. Egos set against each other, bodies set against each other. Seperation. The animal as individual, individual as animal.

Like I alluded to in my first post I have cultivated a vague set of beliefs that tell me this is not our end goal nor is it the true nature of the universe.

[Kyle]

Tribalism is something that seemingly mutates as we do. As cultures and technologies become increasingly sophisticated tribalism denatures from it's more obvious expressions into more insidious forms. So it's different for all parts of the globe really. Some parts of the world still have very obvious incarnations of hunter gatherer tribalism whilst here in the Western world it is trickier to pinpoint but still existent under our hoods.

Street gangs are an expression of tribalism. To an extent churches can be an expression of tribalism. Tribalism has even transformed to find a place in consumerism when you think about it. Marketing and advertising create tribalism between different classes and aesthetics. Bob has an Xbox and Billy has a PlayStation. My dad has a suit and your dad has a shitty car that can barely run.

In the modern world it's less of a physically damaging, violent tribalism. Instead it's a tribalism of the ego. The end result still involves our base carnal nature prevailing. Egos set against each other, bodies set against each other. Seperation. The animal as individual, individual as animal.

Like I alluded to in my first post I have cultivated a vague set of beliefs that tell me this is not our end goal nor is it the true nature of the universe.

Absolutely.

As a species we have done very little to rid ourselves of this social group mentality where we stick within our own micro communities and can be distrusting toward outsiders.

A good example of pack mentality is at football matches. People in large groups tend to find the bar of acceptable behaviour seems to drop and no longer being 'alone' and vulnerable often gives them a platform for bravado and thuggery.

[Kizzy]

I agree with your point Kizzy but religion has had enough of a bashing in my opinion and for the religious contributers like Salman I don't think it's fair on him.

I want to try another aspect of our nature if I may?

Are we inherently racist?

Bear with me on this I am just asking the question. We see with animals that in a lot of cases they tend to stick with their own social groups and genus. Personally I see it too with a pretty large majority of people in relationships (there are exceptions of course).

Is it inbuilt within us to generally stick with our own ethnicity? Is a small part to play on this part of our animalistic approach to sex and reproduction?

I welcome your opinions on this...

Yes, I feel the distrust of other races is inherent and ancestral.
I have a theory it's due to different 'species' of human.
homo sapien, neanderthal, pygmy and others...

Bit nuts eh? lol

[Stu]

Absolutely.

As a species we have done very little to rid ourselves of this social group mentality where we stick within our own micro communities and can be distrusting toward outsiders.

A good example of pack mentality is at football matches. People in large groups tend to find the bar of acceptable behaviour seems to drop and no longer being 'alone' and vulnerable often gives them a platform for bravado and thuggery.
Yes football matches are a great example. It's where boisterous men get to show their emotions and find that lost motherly love within their pack. Some of the scenes of grown men crying on relegation day are out of this world.

Obviously that's just a small subset of supporters I'm on about here, obviously. I love football and have attended matches myself.

As an aside I'd dare anyway to have tribal tendencies on an active dose of psilocybin mushrooms. The idea of separation seems like some sort of comedy.

Meditation is of course also a more gradual, controlled way of dissolving these false dichotomies.

Nothing beats first hand experience. I have laughed like a maniac at the idea of separation.

[Kyle]

I'm surprised that Greed hasn't had much of a rap.

I find the need that some people have for accumulating as much wealth as they can through dishonest and scandalous methods a bit sick to be honest.

[Roy Mars III]

I'm surprised that Greed hasn't had much of a rap.

I find the need that some people have for accumulating as much wealth as they can through dishonest and scandalous methods a bit sick to be honest.

why?

[Stu]

Because dishonest and scandalous methods more often than not come at the expense of others?

[Kyle]

why?

Like Stu pointed out, some people are more than happy to walk over the hands of other people just to accumulate extra finance.

I'm all for getting what you deserve but do you really have to rip off or even downright rob other people?

[Roy Mars III]

my bad, I misread that. I was thought you said gathering an overly large amount of wealth was sickening, I didn't pay attention to the 'through dishonest means part'

blame it on the alcohol.

[Kyle]

my bad, I misread that. I was thought you said gathering an overly large amount of wealth was sickening, I didn't pay attention to the 'through dishonest means part'

blame it on the alcohol.

No worries Roy. :spin:

You having a good night?

[Mystic Mock]

No,simply because of our over inflated egos of ourselves,we THINK we are better than any other living thing,we ride rough shod over everything that gets in our way,cruelty will never be ruled out as we think we have a right over anything and everything.

Agreed Kazanne, but that is just how the animal kingdom works I think.

[Roy Mars III]

No worries Roy. :spin:

You having a good night?

just a normal Sunday night, I should be working on a paper instead i am eating microwave pizza and searching for hot girls in yoga pants on tumblr

[Kyle]

just a normal Sunday night, I should be working on a paper instead i am eating microwave pizza and searching for hot girls in yoga pants on tumblr

:joker:

It's those nights that make the best of us! :elephant:

We only live once right? Sh*t that's a whole new debate right there.....

[Mystic Mock]

I'm just catching up on some of the questions, here's my opinion on it all.

1. While the leaders of Religion are currupt, I still think it's nice for people to have something they can believe in, plus I think it helps out a lot of people just as much as it has harmed people, it's just that the media never report the good news on anything.

2. Yes I think people are inherently racist initially, but I think that once you meet an ethnic person that's nice then it can change your mind on the ethnicity in question, and on a sexual level I just think it's natural to find your own skin colour more attractive and I don't think it's racist, and I find some ethnic girls attractive so I'm not intending this to come across as racist.

3. I believe that once we die that we restart our lives back to the start, I know it's not the most desirable answer in the world but I think it explains why I feel like I've done some of this stuff before.

3.

[Mystic Mock]

I'm just catching up on some of the questions, here's my opinion on it all.

1. While the leaders of Religion are currupt, I still think it's nice for people to have something they can believe in, plus I think it helps out a lot of people just as much as it has harmed people, it's just that the media never report the good news on anything.

2. Yes I think people are inherently racist initially, but I think that once you meet an ethnic person that's nice then it can change your mind on the ethnicity in question, and on a sexual level I just think it's natural to find your own skin colour more attractive and I don't think it's racist, and I find some ethnic girls attractive so I'm not intending this to come across as racist.

3. I believe that once we die that we restart our lives back to the start, I know it's not the most desirable answer in the world but I think it explains why I feel like I've done some of this stuff before.

[Kyle]

I'm just catching up on some of the questions, here's my opinion on it all.

1. While the leaders of Religion are currupt, I still think it's nice for people to have something they can believe in, plus I think it helps out a lot of people just as much as it has harmed people, it's just that the media never report the good news on anything.

2. Yes I think people are inherently racist initially, but I think that once you meet an ethnic person that's nice then it can change your mind on the ethnicity in question, and on a sexual level I just think it's natural to find your own skin colour more attractive and I don't think it's racist, and I find some ethnic girls attractive so I'm not intending this to come across as racist.

3. I believe that once we die that we restart our lives back to the start, I know it's not the most desirable answer in the world but I think it explains why I feel like I've done some of this stuff before.

Good post Mockinator, thanks for sharing.

[Mystic Mock]

Thanks Simple Minds, I hope others feel the same.

[the truth]

I'm surprised that Greed hasn't had much of a rap.

I find the need that some people have for accumulating as much wealth as they can through dishonest and scandalous methods a bit sick to be honest.

yes I agree IF these methods are employed, though the main issue is the spineless mps who create an environement that allows this to happen
though most rich people probably get to the top through hard work and talent
the class system and the freemasons and radical feminism all pervert society and circumvent the system of meritocracy

[Ammi]

...anyway, to answer the thread of whether humans will ever be truly civilised, I think we are civilised in that we have empathy/compassion/conscience etc and that prevents 'uncivilised' behaviour/actions in most people and I think most people are good...obviously there are extremes of human behaviour which don't have those qualities the same as others and whether it be in the name of religion or any other 'excuse'/cause, they will do bad things...there are also 'bad seeds' or bad people like Anders Breivik who can callously just take lives the way he did, with know emotion/conscience at all...

..will we ever be 'perfect'...I don't think so but I think that would be an extreme as well and possibly create its own problems, it would be interesting I guess...I think a lack of tolerance and judging others in general probably contributes a lot to 'the world's ills'....the internet, social sites/forums etc is a great example of that, especially on a BB forum maybe, where a big part of BB is 'judging' and we hear horror stories of bullying etc and generally bad behaviour all the time from sites like Ask.fm and awful behaviour hostile behaviour between people who don't know each other....but the internet is also a huge treasure trove of good things/information/communication as well....so that's a case also of using something for good and positive, rather than bad/evil..which can be done in religion, yes...as it can in many things...I guess it's the 'workman' and not the 'tool'....hmmm, not a great pun/analogy but hey ho.....

[Ammi]

..I should have said ignorance as well..intolerance and ignorance, which goes with what Mock was saying, not only being tolerant of different religions/cultures etc but also trying to learn something about them/have an understanding as well...

[Kyle]

I can't remember where I heard it Ammi but I remember some person arguing that our rate of technological advancement is growing far quicker than we as a species are and it stuck with me a little.

Things like the internet are fantastic tools like you said and without it I certainly wouldn't be able to have this sort of discussion with you but, I just think that maybe we aren't quite socially moving forward at the rate all these methods of communication/tools of decadence are.

[Kyle]

..I should have said ignorance as well..intolerance and ignorance, which goes with what Mock was saying, not only being tolerant of different religions/cultures etc but also trying to learn something about them/have an understanding as well...

Depends what you mean as intolerance I guess.

I would argue that having a genuine concern/distrust of organised religion is a fair assessment given the empirical evidence I have gathered in my relatively short life span.

That's not to say I detest religious people, far from it. perhaps that's what you meant I'm sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

[Ammi]

I can't remember where I heard it Ammi but I remember some person arguing that our rate of technological advancement is growing far quicker than we as a species are and it stuck with me a little.

Things like the internet are fantastic tools like you said and without it I certainly wouldn't be able to have this sort of discussion with you but, I just think that maybe we aren't quite socially moving forward at the rate all these methods of communication/tools of decadence are.

..sorry, I don't understand...not moving forward as quickly, in what way SM..?...do you mean things like space technology etc..?...

[smeagol]

its funny people assume were more civilized now that in the past but were not were worst.
its a act a game humans play designed by people to control us like pets for their own gain

we are all just animals bugs insects were the scum of the earth really no different to a maggot except we think were better than all other species and have some right to have heaven and a god etc but theres no god he was invented to keep us in line.

were never be civilized man has never stopped trying to kill eachother . we kill every animal there is. and why cause were the worst kind of predators.
religion is the biggest killer of all but it a excuse civilized people use to justifiy their actions

have the supermarkets run out of turkeys then your see just how civilized people really are lol.

[Ammi]

Depends what you mean as intolerance I guess.

I would argue that having a genuine concern/distrust of organised religion is a fair assessment given the empirical evidence I have gathered in my relatively short life span.

That's not to say I detest religious people, far from it. perhaps that's what you meant I'm sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

..I can understand what you're saying and I myself have a certain amount of distrust of the religion I was brought up in and why I choose not to practise it, so I do agree...more for the religion/beliefs than the people who practise it/I mean a large portion of the people and how for them, their religion gives them something positive in their lives/makes them better people in many ways...but maybe those beliefs make them 'worse' people in others, so maybe it all does balance itself out...hmmm, religious debates are my least favourite thing...

[Kyle]

..sorry, I don't understand...not moving forward as quickly, in what way SM..?...do you mean things like space technology etc..?...

I mean like our rate of technological advancement has improved dramatically in the last 40 years in comparison to our entire history.

The guy on the radio was arguing that as a species we are finding it hard to adapt to a constant influx of new technology to replace social situations, work situations, exercise and leisure etc.

The guy was a bit long winded but I think he was making the point that we are on the road to decadence.

[Kyle]

its funny people assume were more civilized now that in the past but were not were worst.
its a act a game humans play designed by people to control us like pets for their own gain

we are all just animals bugs insects were the scum of the earth really no different to a maggot except we think were better than all other species and have some right to have heaven and a god etc but theres no god he was invented to keep us in line.

were never be civilized man has never stopped trying to kill eachother . we kill every animal there is. and why cause were the worst kind of predators.
religion is the biggest killer of all but it a excuse civilized people use to justifiy their actions

have the supermarkets run out of turkeys then your see just how civilized people really are lol.

Love the post but I have a more important issue to address.....





...where have you been preciousssssssssss? :hugesmile:

[Ammi]

its funny people assume were more civilized now that in the past but were not were worst.
its a act a game humans play designed by people to control us like pets for their own gain

we are all just animals bugs insects were the scum of the earth really no different to a maggot except we think were better than all other species and have some right to have heaven and a god etc but theres no god he was invented to keep us in line.

were never be civilized man has never stopped trying to kill eachother . we kill every animal there is. and why cause were the worst kind of predators.
religion is the biggest killer of all but it a excuse civilized people use to justifiy their actions

have the supermarkets run out of turkeys then your see just how civilized people really are lol.

..but that makes us 'civilised' though... that we don't just do things motivated by survival and nothing else, unfortunately and is 'human nature' for some people..if they're given something, it's left open to be abused/misused as well...

[Kyle]

..I can understand what you're saying and I myself have a certain amount of distrust of the religion I was brought up in and why I choose not to practise it, so I do agree...more for the religion/beliefs than the people who practise it/I mean a large portion of the people and how for them, their religion gives them something positive in their lives/makes them better people in many ways...but maybe those beliefs make them 'worse' people in others, so maybe it all does balance itself out...hmmm, religious debates are my least favourite thing...

Amen to that. There's never an easy way to discuss it without it turning into a faith vs faithless free for all :hugesmile:

[Ammi]

I mean like our rate of technological advancement has improved dramatically in the last 40 years in comparison to our entire history.

The guy on the radio was arguing that as a species we are finding it hard to adapt to a constant influx of new technology to replace social situations, work situations, exercise and leisure etc.

The guy was a bit long winded but I think he was making the point that we are on the road to decadence.

...as in, in general we want so much technology specifically...they build it, we want it, sort of thing...which encourages greed and then the 'out-doing/keep up with the Jones' factor..so more is built..bigger and better etc..and then that's the one we want..the latest model..and so it goes on..?...

[smeagol]

..but that makes us 'civilised' though... that we don't just do things motivated by survival and nothing else, unfortunately and is 'human nature' for some people..if they're given something, it's left open to be abused/misused as well...

all we do is survival though be it work or going to tescos. thats why people go mental when theirs one loaf of bread left or stuck in traffic , we act civilized but were not.
most of us eat meat which is living flesh we just package it nicely. otherwise we'd all be chasing cats and pigeons for lunch lol

uk u.s is more civilized than most countries i,ll give us that but what we gain in some ways they beat us in others.

[Kyle]

...as in, in general we want so much technology specifically...they build it, we want it, sort of thing...which encourages greed and then the 'out-doing/keep up with the Jones' factor..so more is built..bigger and better etc..and then that's the one we want..the latest model..and so it goes on..?...

I think he was suggesting that eventually we will get to a point where pretty much everything is done for us. We want a cup of tea? A servitor will bring it to our sofa for us. We want a pizza? No problem. A click of a button will send an automaton round and place it before our very eyes.

We will have very little to do and with all that free time all we will do is indulge in debauchery and other pleasures of the flesh. He was a bit sensationalist but I would hate for that to unfold.

[Ammi]

all we do is survival though be it work or going to tescos. thats why people go mental when theirs one loaf of bread left or stuck in traffic , we act civilized but were not.
most of us eat meat which is living flesh we just package it nicely. otherwise we'd all be chasing cats and pigeons for lunch lol

uk u.s is more civilized than most countries i,ll give us that but what we gain in some ways they beat us in others.

...a lot of people get luxuries at Tesco as well though..things they would 'survive' without, but I think I understand what you mean now..more a quality of life/values..?...

[Kyle]

I do see Smeagol's point and I have thought about it quite a bit.

If you take the veneer of civilisation away from people then we will see our true nature.

[Ammi]

I think he was suggesting that eventually we will get to a point where pretty much everything is done for us. We want a cup of tea? A servitor will bring it to our sofa for us. We want a pizza? No problem. A click of a button will send an automaton round and place it before our very eyes.

We will have very little to do and with all that free time all we will do is indulge in debauchery and other pleasures of the flesh. He was a bit sensationalist but I would hate for that to unfold.

..it's like one of those futuristic Sci Fi movies, like Fifth Element..I see what he means potentially..yeah, it may or may not happen, I guess..if only we had a time machine, we could see how long it would take...I can't get the pizza atm because the one near me doesn't have a delivery service but I could get a Chinese takeaway at 'almost' the click of the button now...well, I would still have to talk to someone on the phone but I could envisage a time when you would do it all by tapping in different numbers for your choice maybe.....

[Ammi]

I do see Smeagol's point and I have thought about it quite a bit.

If you take the veneer of civilisation away from people then we will see our true nature.

..yeah, I do see what he means but do you not think that we see people's true nature/character by getting to know them anyway..and it's not always bad but if you are suspicious etc..then maybe you'll only see the 'bad/negative' which everyone has anyway, because we're all flawed...but that doesn't make us 'uncivilised' as such....

[Kyle]

..yeah, I do see what he means but do you not think that we see people's true nature/character by getting to know them anyway..and it's not always bad but if you are suspicious etc..then maybe you'll only see the 'bad/negative' which everyone has anyway, because we're all flawed...but that doesn't make us 'uncivilised' as such....

Yes Ammi I was probably a bit harsh saying 'true nature' because at the end of the day it's not our fault we need to eat, have sex drives etc..

What worries me though is that if we end up in a dystopian future with far too few resources to sustain us, what our base needs will do to us. We can act civilised because for the most part in the U.K we have enough to fulfill basic human needs.

[Kyle]

..it's like one of those futuristic Sci Fi movies, like Fifth Element..I see what he means potentially..yeah, it may or may not happen, I guess..if only we had a time machine, we could see how long it would take...I can't get the pizza atm because the one near me doesn't have a delivery service but I could get a Chinese takeaway at 'almost' the click of the button now...well, I would still have to talk to someone on the phone but I could envisage a time when you would do it all by tapping in different numbers for your choice maybe.....

That's it in a nutshell really.

Fortunately if it ever comes to that I don't think any of us will be here to see it anyway.

[Ammi]

Yes Ammi I was probably a bit harsh saying 'true nature' because at the end of the day it's not our fault we need to eat, have sex drives etc..

What worries me though is that if we end up in a dystopian future with far too few resources to sustain us, what our base needs will do to us. We can act civilised because for the most part in the U.K we have enough to fulfill basic human needs.

..I agree, because we are and do have 'basic animal instincts'..that's what drive's most people to a degree..and then we have the complications of emotions/conscience/empathy/compassion etc...and then also all the technology available, which is open to as much abuse/misuse, as it is a positive thing...what's that saying...'it's not the gun which kills, it's the person pulling the trigger..'..something like that...

..I guess, my general basic philosophy in life, is that it's filled with fairly rubbish stuff for most people..day to day..and also good stuff as well...'being positive/seeing the best is people and things' won't change the rubbish stuff, it'll be there anyway ande it'll naturally bring you down..but I just try not to become too absorbed in it to the extent that I overlook the good things/positives and they just pass me by unnoticed...so I think I've had a rubbish day, when actually, like most...it's been fairly mixed ..if that makes sense....

[Kyle]

It does make sense Ammi and it's a far better philosophy than a pathetic cynic like me.

[smeagol]

I do see Smeagol's point and I have thought about it quite a bit.

If you take the veneer of civilisation away from people then we will see our true nature.

have you seen that latest movie the purge its a interesting concept and gets you thinking about human nature and what were really like.
basically the govement has given 1 day a year that all crime is legal even murder , so the other 364 days theres no crime we all live in peace.
but on that day the civilized end up killing cause its their natural urge and are free to do so. while some end up killing to survive.

always interests me people and whay they do and act like they do. its like high society people all prim and proper but known for orgies and chasing foxes lol not so prim and proper after all as were led to believe.

[Kyle]

have you seen that latest movie the purge its a interesting concept and gets you thinking about human nature and what were really like.
basically the govement has given 1 day a year that all crime is legal even murder , so the other 364 days theres no crime we all live in peace.
but on that day the civilized end up killing cause its their natural urge and are free to do so. while some end up killing to survive.

always interests me people and whay they do and act like they do. its like high society people all prim and proper but known for orgies and chasing foxes lol not so prim and proper after all as were led to believe.

It is an interesting concept I shall look out for that film.

[Ammi]

It does make sense Ammi and it's a far better philosophy than a pathetic cynic like me.

...hmmmm, not necessarily a cynic, maybe more of a 'realist' in that I maybe overlook/excuse/tolerate/try to understand bad behaviour etc more than some may do but that's not necessarily a good/positive thing either because some people are just 'bad' and shouldn't be excused/understood...it is. I think, the hardest thing to get that balance and a balance in life generally...because you have to feel negative things as well as positive ones, otherwise you're just another extreme....

[Kyle]

...hmmmm, not necessarily a cynic, maybe more of a 'realist' in that I maybe overlook/excuse/tolerate/try to understand bad behaviour etc more than some may do but that's not necessarily a good/positive thing either because some people are just 'bad' and shouldn't be excused/understood...it is. I think, the hardest thing to get that balance and a balance in life generally...because you have to feel negative things as well as positive ones, otherwise you're just another extreme....

True.

I don't think cynicism really does much good. Most of us don't need a cynic to point out all the negative attributes of the human race but a cynic tends to just complain which solves nothing.

[Ammi]

True.

I don't think cynicism really does much good. Most of us don't need a cynic to point out all the negative attributes of the human race but a cynic tends to just complain which solves nothing.

..yeah, I think we certainly don't need our own negatives/flaws pointing out..or a lot of us don't..(I mean just general things..not breaking laws/harming people etc..)... because we fairly much feel rubbish about them ourselves anyway and are quite often our own worst critics and cynics...so longs as we're not oblivious to them either, then we pretty much do a great self critical assessment....and so long as we treat others with respect/the same as well....

[Kizzy]

The issue I would say is socialisation, if done well you have decent free thinking, empathic, spirited individuals with the tools to go on to inspire, motivate and educate the next generation.
That is hard enough to achieve, but in a lot of ways hindered by the rules of religion and the freedom of the internet.

[arista]

The issue I would say is socialisation, if done well you have decent free thinking, empathic, spirited individuals with the tools to go on to inspire, motivate and educate the next generation.
That is hard enough to achieve, but in a lot of ways hindered by the rules of religion and the freedom of the internet.


Yes
Free Schools are helping
with parents having better control of their Future

[Kizzy]

I disagree about cynicism, I would say a certain degree is healthy, to probe, question and examine is good and shows an enquiring mind.
Too many now are spoon fed information without stopping to ponder whether or not they agree... This is the silent majority.
The saddest thing I saw was an article online from the BBC ' Do conspiracy theories undermine democracy?'....
Which in a nutshell said it was undemocratic to question authority, how orwellian is that?
We must maintain cynicism! it is what separates us from drones.
what's next to be called into question honesty?.... oh, we already have when so called 'whistleblowers' are pilloried for informing on bad practice, illegal activity and fraud.

[Kizzy]

Yes
Free Schools are helping
with parents having better control of their Future

I wouldn't say the free schools are helping... Why would anyone want their child taught in a school where the staff are not qualified teachers?
As an important tool in socialisation I would expect that those with the responsibility of moulding minds was competent.

[Roy Mars III]

what is considered civilized though? I would think that most people have different answers to what a civilized society is and would be.

[arista]

I wouldn't say the free schools are helping... Why would anyone want their child taught in a school where the staff are not qualified teachers?
As an important tool in socialisation I would expect that those with the responsibility of moulding minds was competent.


But many are better than teachers
and getting better results.

[Kizzy]

But many are better than teachers
and getting better results.

I think we both know that's rubbish...
Next you will be telling me G4S are better than the police and nurses don't need to be qualified....

[Kyle]

I think the way we treat the planet we originated from also prevents us from being truly civilised as a species.

Plundering resources seems to be our forte.

[Kizzy]

It does...The 1% may have all the wealth but at what cost to future generations?

[the truth]

[QUOTE=The Mockinator;6454366]I'm just catching up on some of the questions, here's my opinion on it all.

1. While the leaders of Religion are currupt, I still think it's nice for people to have something they can believe in, plus I think it helps out a lot of people just as much as it has harmed people, it's just that the media never report the good news on anything.

2. Yes I think people are inherently racist initially, but I think that once you meet an ethnic person that's nice then it can change your mind on the ethnicity in question, and on a sexual level I just think it's natural to find your own skin colour more attractive and I don't think it's racist, and I find some ethnic girls attractive so I'm not intending this to come across as racist.

3. I believe that once we die that we restart our lives back to the start, I know it's not the most desirable answer in the world but I think it explains why I feel like I've done some of this stuff before.

1. SOME are corrupt. theres corruption everywhere , just look at the beloved BBC. But the vast majority in the Church are wonderful people who do enormous good throughout the world, feeding the starving, campaigning for the poor and raising billions too
2. I disagree. The word racist has been misinterpreted and misunderstood, often by corrupt disingenuous politicians to stir trouble. Yes there is weariness or distrust by people when new people they don't know or understand arrive in their community. This is human nature. But those without bigotry in their hearts can soon find common bounds, values, interests etc etc and become acquaintances, friends , business associates with people from any race, religion or ethnicity. Its possible that communities can soon unite and the newcomers can soon become friends
with the community. The best example Ive seen is Cardiff bay. Sadly the Cardiff model wasn't studied closely enough. In saying that, something has to be said if our population is growing too fast and our systems cant cope. It is not racist to say that and anyone who suggests it is racist , is an inverted bigot.

3. Do you mean reincarnation. Yes that would certainly be a fascinating way of going through the centuries. Have you ever read up on regression? Now THAT is a fascinating subject. Deep hypnosis into people delving into their sub-conscious feelings of de javu, past lives etc

[the truth]

...anyway, to answer the thread of whether humans will ever be truly civilised, I think we are civilised in that we have empathy/compassion/conscience etc and that prevents 'uncivilised' behaviour/actions in most people and I think most people are good...obviously there are extremes of human behaviour which don't have those qualities the same as others and whether it be in the name of religion or any other 'excuse'/cause, they will do bad things...there are also 'bad seeds' or bad people like Anders Breivik who can callously just take lives the way he did, with know emotion/conscience at all...

..will we ever be 'perfect'...I don't think so but I think that would be an extreme as well and possibly create its own problems, it would be interesting I guess...I think a lack of tolerance and judging others in general probably contributes a lot to 'the world's ills'....the internet, social sites/forums etc is a great example of that, especially on a BB forum maybe, where a big part of BB is 'judging' and we hear horror stories of bullying etc and generally bad behaviour all the time from sites like Ask.fm and awful behaviour hostile behaviour between people who don't know each other....but the internet is also a huge treasure trove of good things/information/communication as well....so that's a case also of using something for good and positive, rather than bad/evil..which can be done in religion, yes...as it can in many things...I guess it's the 'workman' and not the 'tool'....hmmm, not a great pun/analogy but hey ho.....


I think we have regressed in these areas. we have made so many absurd laws now, that a mere conversation on moral values is almost outlawed and politicians, councillors, even nhs staff barely mention moral questions any more?

The real progession has been made by scientists , biologists, inventors, architects, engineers, manufacturers etc

Much of the rest of humanity has become fat greedy polluting and complacent , riding on the coat tails of these brilliant people

the BIGGEST problem we have too is misunderstanding the past. we have failed so many times to learn the real lessons from the past. the lessons learned are instead perverted to suit the agendas of certain groups of people for their own self interests.....This applies to the middle east, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Saudia Arabia.

Even south Africa is undoing a lot of the great work done

did we ever learn the lessons of our empire? did the americans learn from our successes and failures? did the Chinese learn the lessons of russsias collapsed communist structures?

I say again though the total perversion and misinterpretation of human history is a lethal mistake we are passing on through the generations and is getting worse. This includes the utterly perverted one eyed brainless rewriting of history by the uber- destructive hate fuelled radical feminists. All extremists who wish to damage society need to come back to the centre and learn listen and understand. the first rule of compromise is understanding the way to compromise is found somewhere between the extreme viewpoints

[Kizzy]

I don't know any utterly perverted, one eyed, brainless, uber destructive, hate fuelled radical feminists.
I know a quite a few people whose views are a bit cock-eyed.

[Stu]

Something tells me some sort of skewered personal experience must have come in to play to spurn the truth in to including feminists in a post about various bugbears that are holding humans back that much. It's been a bizarre, recurring theme in a few of his posts now ...

[Nedusa]

Well at least if we learn to stop cutting people's heads off in the name of worshipping invisible people living in clouds then that might be a step forward ....!!!

[Kizzy]

Stop dragging it back to extremism, a few indoctrinated individuals do not account for the whole of so called civilised society.
That was a political issue, the fact that that act was seen as so utterly abhorrent is a sign of civility?

[arista]

Something tells me some sort of skewered personal experience must have come in to play to spurn the truth in to including feminists in a post about various bugbears that are holding humans back that much. It's been a bizarre, recurring theme in a few of his posts now ...



Yes Some
Women Destroy Men


Of Course many Men
Destroy Women as well




Life In The Fast Lane

[Nedusa]

Stop dragging it back to extremism, a few indoctrinated individuals do not account for the whole of so called civilised society.
That was a political issue, the fact that that act was seen as so utterly abhorrent is a sign of civility?

Sorry , you can try and label this as the actions of a few but in a truly enlightened and evolved society NOBODY would undertake actions of this depravity for any reason.

Until the last individual moves on none of us can truly move on.

[Kizzy]

You will never have cross cultural civility as the entrenched socialisation is totally different.
Besically there is no level playing field.
That's not even taking the religious element into account.