Do you think all people are equally valuable?

[Redway]

Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?

[Kyle]

I like to consider everyone equal but in a society it just doesn't work. Somebody has to run the country and are thus are going to be more 'important' than the lay man.

[Niamh.]

Obviously a Doctor is going to be more beneficial to society than someone who's dependent on others ( a doctor would trump most non disabled people in "normal" jobs though) but that doesn't mean that the Doctor is better than that person or more deserving of anything

[Kizzy]

The actions of some may bring more social or economic benefit than others, however when you question that as a quintessential truth it becomes rather an unsavoury concept.

[lostalex]

no. some people are better than others.

some people are abusive assholes.

and i mean real abusive assholes, not just people who are annoying, i mean seriously abusive assholes who are evil and who hurt other people for fun.

[Z]

I think your value as a person stems from what you give back to the world. That could be through charity, work, kindness, love, respect... call that +1... some people aren't physically capable of doing anything, call that 0... some people give back negativity, that's -1... so no, I don't think people are equally valuable, not inherently. Most people have the choice to do good with their lives and for whatever combination of reasons, they choose a path in life that either helps others for the most part or hurts others for the most part...

[Kyle]

I think your value as a person stems from what you give back to the world. That could be through charity, work, kindness, love, respect... call that +1... some people aren't physically capable of doing anything, call that 0... some people give back negativity, that's -1... so no, I don't think people are equally valuable, not inherently. Most people have the choice to do good with their lives and for whatever combination of reasons, they choose a path in life that either helps others for the most part or hurts others for the most part...

It's a bit harsh though to penalise people who can't do anything for physical disability's. It's like a double whammy. I'm sorry Jimmy your going to be in a wheelchair for life, oh and btw your not really valuable to us anymore so y'know you can mull that over whilst you sit at home doing nothing.

[Kizzy]

Yep, and it's a generalisation that we all have the potential to be these wonderful exemplary and beneficial members of society. Some just don't possess the skills, a points system is a simplistic and clinical measure of how 'worthwhile' we are.

[Verbal]

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.

[x-evenstar-x]

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.


Well said verbal, I couldn't agree more!

[Kizzy]

Great post verbal thankyou, I find the 'second class citizen' ideology abhorrent too.

[Niamh.]

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.


To be fair to the OP the example he gave was "someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist" he didn't just say disabled people in general

[Verbal]

To be fair to the OP the example he gave was "someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist" he didn't just say disabled people in general

Using disabled people in such an argument as this, smacks of ignorance, prejudice and the kind of thing a Daily Mail reading Tory would say, they are an easy target. They have no place being named in this discussion. Before my post 3 different posts singled them out.

[Niamh.]

Using disabled people in such an argument as this, smacks of ignorance, prejudice and the kind of thing a Daily Mail reading Tory would say, they are an easy target. They have no place being named in this discussion. Before my post 3 different posts singled them out.

They were using the example the OP gave :conf:

[Verbal]

They were using the example the OP gave :conf:

Yes, which was unfairly singling people out. Why am I defending myself? I made a genuine point, i'll be accused of trolling next.

If the OP had said:

Do you think all people are equally valuable?
Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone who is a Muslim on the dole, who may well do little more than exist, vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?

The topic would have been removed before it even started. Yet somehow disabled people are seen as a legitimate target.

[Niamh.]

Yes, which was unfairly singling people out. Why am I defending myself? I made a genuine point, i'll be accused of trolling next.

If the OP had said:

Do you think all people are equally valuable?
Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone who is a Muslim on the dole, who may well do little more than exist, vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?

The topic would have been removed before it even started. Yet somehow disabled people are seen as a legitimate target.

No need to jump the gun Verbal, we can discuss it without getting defensive. I think the example the OP gave was basically trying to give two extremes, one person who is dependent on other people to live and one person who's saves peoples lives everyday. He wasn't lumping all disabled people into one and he wasn't lumping all non disabled people into one either

[Jesus.]

Typical Niamh, always slagging the disabled off.

[Verbal]

No need to jump the gun Verbal, we can discuss it without getting defensive. I think the example the OP gave was basically trying to give two extremes, one person who is dependent on other people to live and one person who's saves peoples lives everyday. He wasn't lumping all disabled people into one and he wasn't lumping all non disabled people into one either

Thats fine, I was just making my point to not stereotype people. Thats all I wanted to achieve.

[Kizzy]

Verbal has a very valid point, I life is a life, and scales like this should not exist.
It is a quite unfair hypothetical imo, mothers and families of those who are severely disabled i'm sure would be upset at the view their loved one was seen as less than another due to their condition.

[Niamh.]

Thats fine, I was just making my point to not stereotype people. Thats all I wanted to achieve.

Which you are perfectly entitled to do :love:

[lostalex]

Verbal has a very valid point, I life is a life, and scales like this should not exist.
It is a quite unfair hypothetical imo, mothers and families of those who are severely disabled i'm sure would be upset at the view their loved one was seen as less than another due to their condition.

really? you don't think scales should exist?

so you think that someone who abuses disabled people is just as valuable a life as someone who helps and cares for disabled people?

sorry but i disagree, i think the kind person is a more valuable life.

[GiRTh]

One of the brightest people I ever met had no arms and legs. He knew something about literally everything. He had an amazing mind.

On topic, many able bodies people I know are contributing absolutely nothing to society other than to irritate others. These people deserve nothing.

[Kizzy]

To be fair to the OP the example he gave was "someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist" he didn't just say disabled people in general

Why do we have to be fair to the OP?..
He suggested that there should be a definition between able bodied and disabled people...
Where is this demarcation between the two, when do you decide someone is not as economically viable?
A little more information would help as this is a little too black and white at the minute.

[Kizzy]

really? you don't think scales should exist?

so you think that someone who abuses disabled people is just as valuable a life as someone who helps and cares for disabled people?

sorry but i disagree, i think the kind person is a more valuable life.

You just completely misinterpretated what I said.

[GiRTh]

Why do we have to be fair to the OP?..
He suggested that there should be a definition between able bodied and disabled people...
Where is this demarcation between the two, when do you decide someone is not as economically viable?
A little more information would help as this is a little too black and white at the minute.He was using an example. I dont think he meant us to take his words literally.

[Niamh.]

really? you don't think scales should exist?

so you think that someone who abuses disabled people is just as valuable a life as someone who helps and cares for disabled people?

sorry but i disagree, i think the kind person is a more valuable life.

Yeah, I agree with that 100%

[Kizzy]

He was using an example. I dont think he meant us to take his words literally.

Do you think all people are equally valuable?

That was the question, how can you not attach a literal interpretation to that, maybe it needs to be more specific as to in what way can you be considered 'valuable'?

[GiRTh]

Do you think all people are equally valuable?

That was the question, how can you not attach a literal interpretation to that, maybe it needs to be more specific as to in what way can you be considered 'valuable'?He does prefix the comparison with 'e.g' thus I think he's saying for example but if you want to take his words literally then that's up to you.

[Jesus.]

All people have the potential to be of equal value. Not everyone chooses to, or is physically able to fulfill that potential.

[Kazanne]

no. some people are better than others.

some people are abusive assholes.

and i mean real abusive assholes, not just people who are annoying, i mean seriously abusive assholes who are evil and who hurt other people for fun.

100% this^

[GiRTh]

My reading of it was to compare someone who needs a lot of care and attention with someone who provides a lot of care and attention. Not to use the OP's example literally. And, in my post I am directly referring to someone who is able bodied but needs a lot of looking after cuz they are a complete waste of space and they choose to be a complete waste of space..

[Kizzy]

He does prefix the comparison with 'e.g' thus I think he's saying for example but if you want to take his words literally then that's up to you.

Yes that was held up literally as an example the 'valuable scale', what other conclusion could be drawn?

[Ammi]

..I would like to say, yes everyone is equal..but no, I can't equate the 'value' of someone like a killer/paedophile etc with that of someone who doesn't commit actions to harm other people, let alone someone who strives to help people in any way...

[GiRTh]

Yes that was held up literally as an example the 'valuable scale', what other conclusion could be drawn?Read my other post.

[Kazanne]

No,some animals are more equal than some scum.

[Ammi]

My reading of it was to compare someone who needs a lot of care and attention with someone who provides a lot of care and attention. Not to use the OP's example literally. And, in my post I am directly referring to someone who is able bodied but needs a lot of looking after cuz they are a complete waste of space and they choose to be a complete waste of space..

..I agree that I don't think the OP meant to cause any offence at all but was using an example...


...we are already 'valued' in that in an emergency/paramedic/medical situation...priority is given to some over others, and I agree with that completely...if there was ever a hypothetical situation when the population had to be 'culled' for any reason, then everyone would have a 'value' to the planet to decide that....

[arista]

Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?


Look at History
The Nazi's and Japan would say No.


And Nowdays a Doctor is more important than a MP


Disabled or Not Disabled that can be Civil or Rude
so its down to each person.

[MTVN]

I dont think people are objectively more valuable than others, its something subjective and people will have their own perspectives on how valuable others are based on their actions, their relationship with them etc

[Kizzy]

Read my other post.

Read my other posts.

[Niamh.]

I dont think people are objectively more valuable than others, its something subjective and people will have their own perspectives on how valuable others are based on their actions, their relationship with them etc

Yeah, that's very true Matthew

[user104658]

Who decides what's valuable, though? For example, to some, those in government supporting military action say, a high-ranking and effective military general would be of very high value, possibly irreplaceable. To an anti-war campaigner, he is beyond worthless.

This applies in most situations.

However I do find myself (shockingly?) Agreeing with lost Alex in this thread. A person who is for all intents and purposes "good" - kind, caring, good to their children, not an abusive arsehole - is of more value to the world than the opposite, regardless of what those people do for a living. A heart surgeon who saves hundreds of lives and then goes home and beats his family is worth far less than an economically inactive man who is raising his children in a caring, compassionate way. Because on a grand scale, it's people raising emotionally neglected children (and this sadly applies to a LOT of "high flying career" parents) who are doing the most potential damage to the world and it's future.

[Redway]

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.

Hence I said 'severely' and I was just using it as an example, hence the 'e.g.', for God's sake. :bored:

There are many different forms of disability, such as mental (along with physical). I absolutely was not simply referring to someone in a wheelchair but other forms of disability that do restrict general ability.

Nor is everything I say supposed to be taken literally. I'd expect you to be able to place it into context.

Lord almighty. :bored:

[Ammi]

Who decides what's valuable, though? For example, to some, those in government supporting military action say, a high-ranking and effective military general would be of very high value, possibly irreplaceable. To an anti-war campaigner, he is beyond worthless.

This applies in most situations.

However I do find myself (shockingly?) Agreeing with lost Alex in this thread. A person who is for all intents and purposes "good" - kind, caring, good to their children, not an abusive arsehole - is of more value to the world than the opposite, regardless of what those people do for a living. A heart surgeon who saves hundreds of lives and then goes home and beats his family is worth far less than an economically inactive man who is raising his children in a caring, compassionate way. Because on a grand scale, it's people raising emotionally neglected children (and this sadly applies to a LOT of "high flying career" parents) who are doing the most potential damage to the world and it's future.


..I agree that children are often 'damaged' by their parents and their choices...if 'high flying' means in terms of placing children in residential boarding schools when it's not necessarily right for the child, which it isn't for everyone, then that can have long term damage and certainly contributes a childhood of unhappiness...but children can be damaged by parents, no matter their situation though...none more or less than others...

[Smithy]

No lady gaga is more valuable than all of us put together

[arista]

No lady gaga is more valuable than all of us put together


She is still Learning
and woman who has problems



Fecking Below Me

[Jesus.]

Arista is the new Salman.

[arista]

Arista is the new Salman.


Never
Salman is a Student

[GiRTh]

Never
Salman is a Student:joker:

[Ammi]

..we are all students of life, Arista..:pipe:...

[Jesus.]

Well Arista thinks that he is more valuable than Salman. Bit out of order that.

[arista]

..we are all students of life, Arista..:pipe:...


Sure of Life


But some are only just Outta Nappys

[smeagol]

no not all people are equally valuable. i tried selling my then gf in morocco once and was only offered 2 camels and a goat for her. the last one before i got 6 camels and a emu

[joeysteele]

I consider all Human beings have worth and in different ways bring something to the World and others lives.
Of course there are people who do and can achieve greater status and success than others but as to being more valuabe, in some ways certainly yes, in possibly other ways no.

I lost a friend earlier this year who was mentally impaired and physically paralysed after a serious car accident, in which he lost both his parents too.
His humour, his determination to try to learn more and do as much as he can was something ,as I watched all his efforts,that was far more valuable than a lot I see in people who some in society and even authority would call the 'more important' people.

I put a value on all people, no matter their status or even great lack of it.
How they are and what they do and try to do as to reaching out to others is far more important and valuable to me as to other people.

[arista]

I consider all Human beings have worth and in different ways bring something to the World and others lives.
Of course there are people who do and can achieve greater status and success than others but as to being more valuabe, in some ways certainly yes, in possibly other ways no.




Spot The Student Everyone



Joey
Hitler Was a Human



You sticking up for him?

[joeysteele]

Spot The Student Everyone



Joey
Hitler Was a Human



You sticking up for him?

arista,I really like you with a passion but with the greatest of respect, you must take all that is said in the full quotes of the post and not just a snippet from it.

If you read the whole of my post, I said I place value on all human beings for the way they are and what they do as to reaching out to others, clearly since you raise the name Hitler,it should be obvious to all that he is someone I would clearly not place any value on for his actions towards other human beings.

[arista]

arista,I really like you with a passion but with the greatest of respect, you must take all that is said in the full quotes of the post and not just a snippet from it.

If you read the whole of my post, I said I place value on all human beings for the way they are and what they do as to reaching out to others, clearly since you raise the name Hitler,it should be obvious to all that he is someone I would clearly not place any value on for his actions towards other human beings.


Yes I am a Shocking Editor

[Kizzy]

I consider all Human beings have worth and in different ways bring something to the World and others lives.
Of course there are people who do and can achieve greater status and success than others but as to being more valuabe, in some ways certainly yes, in possibly other ways no.

I lost a friend earlier this year who was mentally impaired and physically paralysed after a serious car accident, in which he lost both his parents too.
His humour, his determination to try to learn more and do as much as he can was something ,as I watched all his efforts,that was far more valuable than a lot I see in people who some in society and even authority would call the 'more important' people.

I put a value on all people, no matter their status or even great lack of it.
How they are and what they do and try to do as to reaching out to others is far more important and valuable to me as to other people.

I totally agree joey, you put it very poetically and I appreciate your heartfelt post about your friend. It shows what perhaps I was trying to express, that it isn't so much about what you do but the hearts you touch that define you as valuable.
:hug:

[joeysteele]

I totally agree joey, you put it very poetically and I appreciate your heartfelt post about your friend. It shows what perhaps I was trying to express, that it isn't so much about what you do but the hearts you touch that define you as valuable.
:hug:

Thank you very much Kizzy and I agree with you, in what you are saying too as to the hearts you touch being something really valuable.

[Kizzy]

You're welcome Joey, I find the example given unacceptable.
I could understand if it had been between a doctor and a criminal, but it isn't and to me that's wrong.

[the truth]

I think your value as a person stems from what you give back to the world. That could be through charity, work, kindness, love, respect... call that +1... some people aren't physically capable of doing anything, call that 0... some people give back negativity, that's -1... so no, I don't think people are equally valuable, not inherently. Most people have the choice to do good with their lives and for whatever combination of reasons, they choose a path in life that either helps others for the most part or hurts others for the most part...

what about people who do work for charity but do all they can to avoid paying tax like the Bonos , jimmy carrs and phill Collins of this world and many more....al capone used charity as a morality car wash to try and make himself look good in public. behind closed doors he was of course a mass murderer
I am very weary of those who use charity to try and show off an image
take beckham he pays miniscule percent of taxes on his 100s of millions, yet when he donated part fo his wages from his paris football wages he was hailed a saint. truth is it was a tax write off

[Jessica.]

no. some people are better than others.

some people are abusive assholes.

and i mean real abusive assholes, not just people who are annoying, i mean seriously abusive assholes who are evil and who hurt other people for fun.
I agree with this.

[Ninastar]

there's always going to be better people than others, no matter what you do.

[Z]

what about people who do work for charity but do all they can to avoid paying tax like the Bonos , jimmy carrs and phill Collins of this world and many more....al capone used charity as a morality car wash to try and make himself look good in public. behind closed doors he was of course a mass murderer
I am very weary of those who use charity to try and show off an image
take beckham he pays miniscule percent of taxes on his 100s of millions, yet when he donated part fo his wages from his paris football wages he was hailed a saint. truth is it was a tax write off

Perhaps his motives aren't exclusively borne out of a desire to give to charity, I don't know, but he's still doing some good in the world, you know? I mean it's not like I think people can be ranked on a scale, I just used that as an example of how people can be perceived through their actions; but I think if you are incapable of giving anything back to the world because the world has dealt you a bad hand, then by default you aren't contributing anything but neither are you damaging anything. You're out of the system, essentially. People are complex and most people are neither wholly good nor wholly bad; some fall onto the extremes of either side of the coin but most people are on a spectrum and I think if you make yourself valuable by doing your best in life to be a good person, that's all that can be asked of you.

[joeysteele]

May I just say, I don't think Redway meant offence at all in his opening post to anyone in particular.

I think he was just saying a general comment as to how others may judge or measure value on individuals.
I know of people who see the severely diasbled as having no worth, this Govt for instance for starters.

I really believe Redway was not stating a view that was his as to measuring value but just asking a question, sometimes it is an extreme example that provokes thought and gets the opinions flowing.
Redway is a really good guy and I am sure he meant no offence to anyone in the opening post.

I made my comment in which I higlighted a severely disabled friend of mine as an example of where I saw greater worth because of the disabilities. However I took no offence at the opening post question nor was I offended in anyway by it either.

I think the question brought about some good, strong and well thought out comments and that I firmly believe was the only intention from Redway and his opening post on the thread to gather others thoughts overall..

[the truth]

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.

quality post. people who continue their lives and strive to live a good life with all sorts of disabilities or in some cases with diseases are an absolute inspiration. beyond that a disability can also strengthen a person in other ways, whether that be in terms of the ways they think or problem solve or their strength of spirit and determination or the optimism too....Ive worked with people with all sorts of disability and found I infinitely more enjoyable, fun and rewarding than working with so called able bodied people. life is strange

[Kazanne]

May I just say, I don't think Redway meant offence at all in his opening post to anyone in particular.

I think he was just saying a general comment as to how others may judge or measure value on individuals.
I know of people who see the severely diasbled as having no worth, this Govt for instance for starters.

I really believe Redway was not stating a view that was his as to measuring value but just asking a question, sometimes it is an extreme example that provokes thought and gets the opinions flowing.
Redway is a really good guy and I am sure he meant no offence to anyone in the opening post.

I made my comment in which I higlighted a severely disabled friend of mine as an example of where I saw greater worth because of the disabilities. However I took no offence at the opening post question nor was I offended in anyway by it either.

I think the question brought about some good, strong and well thought out comments and that I firmly believe was the only intention from Redway and his opening post on the thread to gather others thoughts overall..

Joey just to say,I for one believe David Cameron had a severely disabled son,I don't think for one minute he'de have thought he was worthless,infact one of the best pictures I have even seen was one of him cradling his son,so I really don't think its a case of them not caring,they do get a lot of help,my mom looks after an old disabled gentleman and although she doesn't get much in payment ,he does get help with the items he needs and altering his bungalow etc.We are all valuable to society in some ways,except of course the ones I have stated otherwise on other posts.:wavey:

[Ammi]

..I don’t agree that with any other example it would have made the thread any dfferent..would an ‘older’ person be less valuable than a younger person..etc etc, the list is endless and nothing intentional was meant by the example used by the OP, just something we do when we make ‘hypothetical human interest’ threads..use examples etc...I guess the frustration of the OP and understandably so is the side tracking of a use of that example used, rather than his genuine interest in views on the topic, which I imagine is useful to his subject studies....

..anyway, not wanting to side track anymore and staying with the topic and as I think I posted earlier...my first instinct would be to say that we are all equally as ‘valuable’..but of course we are not..some not only have very little value to this planet but actually remove value from it in the case of murderers etc...and even people who are extremely valuable in just general things they do to care/have empathy for people in their lives...I guess we would call them the ‘average person’...in a culling of the population situation or an extreme situation when it might have to be decided..they could find their value very much diminished...because that is when ‘practical/logical’ would have to overrule ‘civilised’....and all empathy/compassion..’human’ feelings would have to be put aside...pr made secondary...actually, slightly off topic again, I always find that interesting in apocalyptic or plane crash survival movies...how the dynamics/priorities of everything changes and people within the group..(especially as I'm a recent fan to The Walking Dead series..)...interesting topic, Redway...

[Niamh.]

Yes, I agree Ammi.

Also I think Matt made a good point earlier on as well :

I dont think people are objectively more valuable than others, its something subjective and people will have their own perspectives on how valuable others are based on their actions, their relationship with them etc

[Ammi]

Yes, I agree Ammi.

Also I think Matt made a good point earlier on as well :

..yeah, it is a good point because obviously we all have people who we personally hold as valuable to our own lives..it's strange because Redway's question along with another thread about 'are we civilised'...made me think a lot about an apocalyptic situation...yeah, I think we are absolutely 'civilised'..very flawed, obviously..what isn't flawed and the population/planet is so vast that there are many flaws...but maybe it's understandable with all the bad things that happen in the world, to feel sometimes that we're not 'civilised' but I think if you put us in an apocalyptic/survival situation, you would appreciate just how much we indeed are...do you know what I mean..?...

[Niamh.]

..yeah, it is a good point because obviously we all have people who we personally hold as valuable to our own lives..it's strange because Redway's question along with another thread about 'are we civilised'...made me think a lot about an apocalyptic situation...yeah, I think we are absolutely 'civilised'..very flawed, obviously..what isn't flawed and the population/planet is so vast that there are many flaws...but maybe it's understandable with all the bad things that happen in the world, to feel sometimes that we're not 'civilised' but I think if you put us in an apocalyptic/survival situation, you would appreciate just how much we indeed are...do you know what I mean..?...

I do, of course it could also go the Lord of The Flies route :eek:

[Ammi]

I do, of course it could also go the Lord of The Flies route :eek:

..there was another movie as well, I can't remember what it was called..(Nicholas Cage..)..where the planet was dying and 'other life' from another planet was taking children only to populate/repopulate on their planet, so every adult became 'worthless' in value...which to a very much lesser extent is the case now in medical/paramedic situations..children always have priority, which is as it should be...


...hmmm, but one of those children could be a future mass murderer...interesting...

[Kizzy]

I think the idea was borne from the thread created on the news item that a 25yr old student was killed on his last delivery of pizza.
There was a feeling that some murders are more tragic than others, and that's right to a certain extent.
I feel that is where the concept of some people being percieved as more valuable came from. I might be wrong, but it felt like it at the time.
It made me think whether our priorities are changing and if viewing people in terms of duty was civilised, is it a real attitudinal shift?

[Niamh.]

Well, again going back to what Matt said I think that it's all really subjective, like if an elderly woman is murdered and a young mother with 3 kids is murdered, which is worse? I mean obviously they're both tragic and very wrong but the younger mother is probably more valuable in the sense that she'll leave three young children motherless. It's not a nice thing to talk about like that though

[Ammi]

Well, again going back to what Matt said I think that it's all really subjective, like if an elderly woman is murdered and a young mother with 3 kids is murdered, which is worse? I mean obviously they're both tragic and very wrong but the younger mother is probably more valuable in the sense that she'll leave three young children motherless. It's not a nice thing to talk about like that though

..yeah, I agree, that's more were my thought come from..that people are deemed more 'valuable' to a lesser degree now and certainly in medical emergency situations, even though it's not a nice thought and then an extreme situation were 'value' would become a priority and we'd almost be 'graded'....it is an interesting thing because it's not something that we really want to think, is it...if it was our own grandparent etc...

[Kizzy]

Well, again going back to what Matt said I think that it's all really subjective, like if an elderly woman is murdered and a young mother with 3 kids is murdered, which is worse? I mean obviously they're both tragic and very wrong but the younger mother is probably more valuable in the sense that she'll leave three young children motherless. It's not a nice thing to talk about like that though

Is that not just stating the obvious though, a younger person with more life to experience and young children would for most elicit more empathy maybe?

[Niamh.]

Right closing this thread for cleaning. When I reopen it will everyone please try and show a bit of respect for the OP and stay on topic and not ruin his thread?

[arista]

there's always going to be better people than others, no matter what you do.


Yes Bang On Right


Thats why Communism has never ever worked



Feel The Force

[Jesus.]

Yes Bang On Right


Thats why Communism has never ever worked



Feel The Force

That's got nothing to do with communism not working. Communism will never work because people are inherently selfish.

[the truth]

its sad people don't go out and play, see and interact and meet each other so much nowadays
a lot of these values we speak of are often unseen behind a computer or a mobile phone

for me its the many many little things....I don't trust anyone who promotes himself as a huge charity helper, I like those modest types who do it and don't look for praise or fanfare. But also at the same time pay their legitimate taxes so aren't total hypocrites
a man who is poor but does put something back into society is a man I respect. a man who truly helps another in need is someone I respect. someone who listens with an open mind is a person I respect. many people can say things to make themselves look good but how many people are really there at the end of a line when a friend needs them in crisis, giving up hours of time to listen and advise? that's the test of value and integrity. Not simply people who are boozing pals.

people do surprise all the time though, the person you may think is a total idiot will often come through in a crisis....then the people who have truly suffered are able to offer their words of comfort wisdom and often optimism in the face of hellish suffering to others. many people are lost and seeking direction, heroes looking for targets