Homosexuality: Nature vs Nurture

[Benjamin]

Since homosexuality seems to be the topic of choice tonight. What are your opinions on the nature vs nurture debate?

[Black Dagger]

Load of bollocks.

[Benjamin]

Which one, lol.

[Vicky.]

I think people are born gay. If it was nurture, then you wouldnt get brothers and sisters that were different sexualities.

Also don't think its a choice. Without offendng gay people (which I probably will do anyway) I dont see why anyone would actually chose to go against the 'norm' so to speak, and put themselves through all of the **** that apparently comes with being gay (ridicule when young, homophobia etc)

[Lee.]

Load of bollocks.

Agree.

[Black Dagger]

Which one, lol.

The whole nurture thing.. mainly due to the fact I got on with my dad more in childhood and still turned out to be a raving homo.

I don't think people end up being gay because their mum gave them a few more cuddles than they should maybe have had.

[Amy Jade]

I don't agree it's nurture for a second.

Perfect example is my auntie, she had 6 children. All but one are straight, if it was nurture why aren't all her kids gay?

[user104658]

People are complex and it can be either. It's been fairly conclusively proven that many (most, I think) homosexuals are literally "wired differently" from birth. However, the psychology of sexuality is very complex and experience - especially early experiences - can affect adult sexuality.

I also personally believe that some degree of bisexuality is much more common than many people care to admit, with it being socially "drummed out" of most people at an early stage.

[zakman440]

It definitely is not nurtured or a choice, people are just born how they are, and if they're gay, good for them.

[Firewire]

Nature - I know someone who just recently came out as gay. For a long time I guessed that he was (pretty much everyone did although it's no one's place to label him), but of course I am not him so I didn't know how he felt in his head. His mother and father are extreme Christians and I say this because any time he showcased something that wasn't how a boy should act (whether it was hand gestures or a particular way of speaking) he was warned against it and was told not to act that way. His parents did everything in their power for him not to be gay.

He moved away when he started uni and began experimenting and becoming himself. He's openly gay, even to his mother but not to his father. Now, tell me that someone who is brought up in an extreme Christian household and is brought up not to be gay ends up being gay anyway is a result of nurture. It isn't.

[joeysteele]

Nature I say.

[Daniel.]

Nature. I'm gay and I certainly didn't choose to be, not nurture atall.

[swinearefine]

I've had crushes on guys for as long as I can remember, and can even remember being about 5 or 6 and having my parents telling me that they'd disown me if I grew up to be gay, so definitely nature. But if it were a choice I would choose to be gay because who honestly likes straight people unless they're female?

[Tom4784]

Sexuality isn't a choice, it's something you are simply born with. You can repress your sexuality sure but you can't change it and you'll never be happy if you do because you'll be living a lie.

A straight person will be straight regardless of whatever outside influences were present in their upbringing and it's the same for gay, bi and asexual people too. Sexuality is simply part of your DNA and it cannot be changed.

[Jords]

There is an environmental influence part to it.

e.g. my mum/dad's friend has had bad relationships with men and moved away and her new partner is a woman.

But then others would argue that everybody is a bit 'bisexual' and her bad relationships with men led her to be more open to this.

I dont think sexuality is as simple as youre either born this, that or the other. The people we meet and the experiences we share have an impact. Sure nature may have a big say in it buts its not a 100% deciding factor imo.

[Brother Leon]

I'll Put my hands up, When I was a little younger I used to think it was a case of nurture. I.E if a guy had loads of sisters or something, but now I feel it's just how you are born.

[james130]

I also personally believe that some degree of bisexuality is much more common than many people care to admit, with it being socially "drummed out" of most people at an early stage.

I definitely agree with this. A lot of people say it's because "we only want to poke a toe out of the closet" or "we're being greedy". But I've only ever 'been' with girls; loved being with them, yet I find guys attractive and would happily be with them too. A lot of my mates have admitted to finding other guys attractive and not being opposed to experimenting and stuff, but only admitted it when really drunk.

As for nature vs nurture, I think a lot of different things can influence a persons sexuality but it's predominantly nature.
The whole "my dad was never around, so i'm gay" thing is bull****. :idc:

[Jessica.]

Well the way I see it, if I feel that I could never have a relationship with a woman, why would it be so weird for a man to feel like that?

I think every individual has their own branch of sexuality, some people are straight, some are gay, some like gingers, some like morbidly obese people, heck one woman even married the Eiffel Tower.

[the truth]

maybe some men choose to fall for men because theyre fundamentally more honest than women

[the truth]

Sexuality isn't a choice, it's something you are simply born with. You can repress your sexuality sure but you can't change it and you'll never be happy if you do because you'll be living a lie.

A straight person will be straight regardless of whatever outside influences were present in their upbringing and it's the same for gay, bi and asexual people too. Sexuality is simply part of your DNA and it cannot be changed.

again you try to speak for the whole word, totally ridiculous. how do you know that everyone is excatly the same as you ? you dont. who the heck knows why some are hetro some are bi and some are homosexual? why do some men like big girls, others like skinny ones....some women like muscle some like skinny guys, some like fat baldies with big beards....its a complex matter. which youre trying unsuccessfully to oversimplify to suit your agenda

[Ammi]

..I think that the only nurture that may come into it is maybe certain environments etc may make it more difficult for someone to feel they can be open about their sexuality...and people never have to say..oh hey mum/dad, I'm heterosexual, for a lot of people that must be a really difficult thing to have to do ....

[Nedusa]

I think it's definitely Nature not nurture but I do think ones environment ie Nurture can influence ie delay when the declaration of ones sexuality is made. I think depending on family circumstances and religious persuasions one might delay in announcing the fact.

But Nature decides one sexuality ...

[Kyle]

I definitely agree with this. A lot of people say it's because "we only want to poke a toe out of the closet" or "we're being greedy". But I've only ever 'been' with girls; loved being with them, yet I find guys attractive and would happily be with them too. A lot of my mates have admitted to finding other guys attractive and not being opposed to experimenting and stuff, but only admitted it when really drunk.



On the flip side as a heterosexual male and thinking of all straight lads I've known I'm pretty sure an overwhelming majority would baulk at the idea of sexual activity with another male as would I.

[Niamh.]

I'm not gay so I couldn't possibly say how it feels etc but if a gay person tells me that's the way they were born, why would I try to convince them they're wrong? Why would I know better than them? So yeah, I would absolutely take someones first hand experiance as truth and say nature

[joeysteele]

I'm not gay so I couldn't possibly say how it feels etc but if a gay person tells me that's the way they were born, why would I try to convince them they're wrong? Why would I know better than them? So yeah, I would absolutely take someones first hand experiance as truth and say nature

Really well said and a good summing up of the isuue too Niamh.

[Redway]

Nature. I'm pretty sure gay teens post a high suicide rate, at least comparatively speaking, so why would they choose that and other stigma because they're so insistent on drifting far away from the majority as possible? :shrug:

Nurture = total nonsense.

[Nedusa]

I think religious Dogma has a lot to answer for, most mainstream religions quote from Holy scriptures which pretty much frown upon same sex unions. These doctrines have created a default position in which Heterosexuality is considered as normal.

Anything else is abnormal or unnatural as only the "normal" man-woman union can result in procreation etc...

This type of bigotry has been endemic across all Social and religious boundaries for centuries and only now in the 21st Century in most developed countries people can finally feel comfortable in declaring their sexuality without fear of persecution.

Unfortunately in some developing countries or within some extremist religions hatred and hostility is still found towards non heterosexual people.

Hopefully as time moves on and as people become more informed and better educated these bigoted views will disappear....!!!!

[Benjamin]

I must just say I do know a couple of gay people who believe in the nurture theory.

[Ammi]

I must just say I do know a couple of gay people who believe in the nurture theory.


..would you want to share their theory in more detail, just out of interest..?...

[Chuck]

Don't think this is a debate tbh.

It's nature and that's it. Some people choose to experiment, others have had some bad experiences that were enough to put them off of the opposite sex, there are the ones who have always been gay but only discover that later in life etc etc. I do not believe for a second you can choose your sexuality.

[Benjamin]

..would you want to share their theory in more detail, just out of interest..?...

Well they believe that triggers and influences throughout upbringing at an early age "teach" them to be gay and that if they had been brought up in different ways/environments then they wouldn't be.

[Benjamin]

Don't think this is a debate tbh.

It's nature and that's it. Some people choose to experiment, others have had some bad experiences that were enough to put them off of the opposite sex, there are the ones who have always been gay but only discover that later in life etc etc. I do not believe for a second you can choose your sexuality.

It makes it a debate because not everyone agrees with the nature theory.

[Chuck]

It makes it a debate because not everyone agrees with the nature theory.

I know :laugh: I meant it like on a personal level., like it's not something I've ever had a doubt about.

[Niamh.]

Well they believe that triggers and influences throughout upbringing at an early age "teach" them to be gay and that if they had been brought up in different ways/environments then they wouldn't be.

What kind of things do they think trigger homosexuality?

[Ammi]

Well they believe that triggers and influences throughout upbringing at an early age "teach" them to be gay and that if they had been brought up in different ways/environments then they wouldn't be.

..I guess that's interesting because they've obviously felt that some of their particular experiences could have been an influence and I think that there are things with all of us that we could pick out certain times/experiences etc of childhood and early years and say..oh, I think that might have been a factor in ******being part of my character/because this happened etc..?...but unless they had a different set of experiences in life..(which would never happen..) they would never maybe be convinced that their sexuality would be the same..I believe 'character' is influenced by environment/nature but I don't think that sexuality is character, it's genetic....but yeah, it's quite interesting that those are their thoughts....

[Benjamin]

What kind of things do they think trigger homosexuality?

The upbringings they have had. They grew up in all female households all their lives.

Up still not sure myself. I believe it's both nature and nurture. I believe many have the tendency to be homosexual/bisexual, but it requires certain triggers for it to develop, and for some people they never encounter those triggers.

[Jesus.]

There isn't really any difference in the weight of opinion between gay/straight people here. We've all been through the growing up process, and there isn't anything that could have affected my sexuality.

I was attracted to women before I even knew anything about their best bits, or how my bits worked because it was innate. I can still appreciate attractive men, but I just don't believe nurture plays any role in sexuality.

[Niamh.]

The upbringings they have had. They grew up in all female households all their lives.

Up still not sure myself. I believe it's both nature and nurture. I believe many have the tendency to be homosexual/bisexual, but it requires certain triggers for it to develop, and for some people they never encounter those triggers.

mmm But it's not like all gay men were raised by only females though either

[Benjamin]

mmm But it's not like all gay men were raised by only females though either

Oh I know that, I don't hold the opinion they do, I was just mentioning it. My opinion is that both play a part in sexuality.

[Niamh.]

Oh I know that, I don't hold the opinion they do, I was just mentioning it. My opinion is that both play a part in sexuality.

Yeah, i heard that opinion before about being raised by women etc I'm not sure I believe it though by that logic I could have been a lesbian cos I grew in a house with 3 brothers and a dad (my mom was there too) It definitely made me more of a tomboy and less girly but never effected my sexuality

[Ammi]

Yeah, i heard that opinion before about being raised by women etc I'm not sure I believe it though by that logic I could have been a lesbian cos I grew in a house with 3 brothers and a dad (my mom was there too) It definitely made me more of a tomboy and less girly but never effected my sexuality

..yeah, I was just going to make a similar post in that my world was very male dominated and I was a complete tomboy/hung around with my brothers and their friends and only ever had one female friend...but I guess that if I had been gay and felt that my environment was a contributory factor, then whether it's fact or not, then that would be my belief in my head...

[Benjamin]

Yeah, i heard that opinion before about being raised by women etc I'm not sure I believe it though by that logic I could have been a lesbian cos I grew in a house with 3 brothers and a dad (my mom was there too) It definitely made me more of a tomboy and less girly but never effected my sexuality

Lol, I try to argue with my friends that believe that but I grew up in a house full of women and I'm gay and they like to point that out. :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Lol, I try to argue with my friends that believe that but I grew up in a house full of women and I'm gay and they like to point that out. :laugh:

By the same token though, there's a guy I went to school with, he grew up with a mother and father and there was 4 children 3 boys and 1 girl, him and one of his brothers are gay and the other brother and the sister are straight. They all grew up in the same house.

[Niamh.]

..yeah, I was just going to make a similar post in that my world was very male dominated and I was a complete tomboy/hung around with my brothers and their friends and only ever had one female friend...but I guess that if I had been gay and felt that my environment was a contributory factor, then whether it's fact or not, then that would be my belief in my head...

Yeah, that's true, I think some gay men were raised by women and so think that's the reason but there are plenty gay men who were raised by two parents also, i think single mothered familes are just more common now which is why the percentage of gay men coming from being raised by just a mother is more common

[Ammi]

Yeah, that's true, I think some gay men were raised by women and so think that's the reason but there are plenty gay men who were raised by two parents also, i think single mothered familes are just more common now which is why the percentage of gay men coming from being raised by just a mother is more common

..and maybe for some people if they have just a female influence in their lives, they may find it easier to realise their sexuality and so, that could be interpreted as an 'influence', when it isn't....

[Z]

I think people are born gay. If it was nurture, then you wouldnt get brothers and sisters that were different sexualities.

Also don't think its a choice. Without offendng gay people (which I probably will do anyway) I dont see why anyone would actually chose to go against the 'norm' so to speak, and put themselves through all of the **** that apparently comes with being gay (ridicule when young, homophobia etc)

I agree with this. Why would anyone make the conscious choice to be subjected to verbal, physical and emotional abuse because of their sexuality? When people say it's a choice, I want to ask those people "so when did you choose to be straight?" - I blame religion for that attitude.

Well they believe that triggers and influences throughout upbringing at an early age "teach" them to be gay and that if they had been brought up in different ways/environments then they wouldn't be.

I also can see where they are coming from. People develop all sorts of fetishes from experiences they had when they were younger; I can see why people would think they "became" gay because of things that happened to them when they were younger... but ultimately I don't believe that you are nurtured to be gay. It's something you are born as. I think experiences you have when you're young could contribute to how you perceive your own homosexuality and your preferences, just as your experiences as a child can give you phobias and passions...

Racism is taught. Who is teaching homosexuality? Nobody.

[Kizzy]

I believe that there maybe a trigger too for some (maybe not all) that's to say it's latent in some and awoken by experience or event.
I think that theory is being accepted now for psychopaths, that the brain chemistry is there but it takes a trigger to 'switch on' the part of the brain responsible.
Maybe evander in BB could have been trying to explain a similar nature/nurture argument, but the way he was grilled for it... wow, It's really getting scary the way you can't even vocalise anything that doesn't conform to the 'norm' these days is frightening!

[Z]

I wonder if they'll ever figure out why people are homosexual in my lifetime? I'd be interested to know the science behind it. I still think that homosexuality is one of nature's attempts to curb the human population, along with diseases, illnesses and infertility. There are too many people in the world.

[Benjamin]

I wonder if they'll ever figure out why people are homosexual in my lifetime? I'd be interested to know the science behind it. I still think that homosexuality is one of nature's attempts to curb the human population, along with diseases, illnesses and infertility. There are too many people in the world.

We were created because women could no longer be trusted to dress themselves.

[BBfan46]

Nature.

I've always been close to both of my parents. My mother was never domineering or a smother mother and I've always been close to my Dad, we're actually very similar but I'm still really close to both of my parents so I do have to rubbish claims that parental relationships shape sexuality.

I always felt attraction to the same gender from birth, it was never a change in me or anything, I was never exposed to anything that made me feel like that, it certainly felt like a natural attraction and a natural progression of sexuality to me.

[Z]

We were created because women could no longer be trusted to dress themselves.

LOL :joker:

[user104658]

I would point out that the nature / nurture debate has nothing to do with the "choice" debate... nurture does not mean "choice", it just means that the psychology is shaped by early experiences. It's no more of a "choice" though... just as (for example, I'm not making a direct comparison!) a phobia is almost always rooted in early childhood, but is certainly not a choice... it's as ingrained as any instinct.

So anyway, away from the nature/nurture debate, whichever it is, I certainly don't believe that it's a choice. One of my best friends, who I've known for almost 15 years, is gay and quite "obviously" gay. Not an Alan Carr or a Rylan level of obvious, but at least a Graham Norton on the scale. You can tell, basically. Anyway - myself and basically all of his close friends were CERTAIN that he was gay, from when we were around 14. Like I said it was just obvious! We brought it up with him several times and he said he wasn't. I once even pushed the issue by asking if he fancied anyone in our year, and he really did try... bless him... to pretend that he did. When I asked what he liked about her, he said she's "just really nice". :joker:

He kept up this pretense for years (we didn't constantly badger him about it, just occasional comments like "yes but that's because you're obvz gay..." which he would laugh off) and didn't actually "come out" until we were 19 and at University. He did it like a big reveal at the pub, as if it would be a shock, it was brilliant.

"Guys.. I have something I need to tell you all..."
"Is it that you're gay?"
"...yes..."
"FINALLY!!!"

OK so I'm rambling a bit - but anyway, the point is, we knew he was gay before he was ready to say it to anyone or even admit it to himself properly. For FIVE YEARS. So we knew that he WAS gay before he ever made the "choice" to be openly gay / start any sort of homosexual relationship. So saying that it's a "choice" makes no sense. If that was the case, no one would have noticed any "gay traits" until he "chose it". Surely.

[Niamh.]

Unless he choose it because everyone thought he was gay anyway :idc:

I joke, I Joke!!!!

[Kizzy]

I remember seeing an interview with Dale Winton, he was explaining how he was around his mother who was a dancer and all her beautiful friends from a very young age as well as a very fiery strong confident aunt.
To me in that he seemed to imply that it had a bearing on his development as he wanted to be them and emulated them. This isn't me putting forward an argument for nurture but it's always stuck in my mind as an odd thing to say as I had never heard anyone say anything like it before.

[Firewire]

I remember seeing an interview with Dale Winton, he was explaining how he was around his mother who was a dancer and all her beautiful friends from a very young age as well as a very fiery strong confident aunt.
To me in that he seemed to imply that it had a bearing on his development as he wanted to be them and emulated them. This isn't me putting forward an argument for nurture but it's always stuck in my mind as an odd thing to say as I had never heard anyone say anything like it before.

the fact that he wanted to be like them has no influence on sexuality

[Z]

Good point Toy Soldier, nurture is wrongly equated with the choice argument... I do think nurture plays a role in the development of everyone's psyche (because that's what nurturing is - development) - just as someone can become afraid of spiders or become passionate about being a trapeze artist; someone can develop a love or hate for all sorts of things... but ultimately I think a person is born gay.

[Samm]

I started not likening girls when I was about 13, so I don't know if it's nature or not but I don't care that much :laugh:

[Niamh.]

I started not likening girls when I was about 13, so I don't know if it's nature or not but I don't care that much :laugh:

Well, thing is, people say, infact someone in here already said, I liked boys from when i was born. That to me is absurd lol most "straight" boys hate girls until they're almost at a teenage stage. My 9 year old still closes his eyes if he sees people on TV kissing :laugh:

[Chuck]

We were created because women could no longer be trusted to dress themselves.

Says the 30 years old man who was dressed like 15 yo skater on New Year's Eve.

[Z]

Says the 30 years old man who was dressed like 15 yo skater on New Year's Eve.

http://messenger.msn.co.uk/MMM2006-04-19_17.00/Resource/emoticons/clock.gif

[Samm]

Well, thing is, people say, infact someone in here already said, I liked boys from when i was born. That to me is absurd lol most "straight" boys hate girls until they're almost at a teenage stage. My 9 year old still closes his eyes if he sees people on TV kissing :laugh:

I know what you mean, I am 16 now, I think when your about 12 or 13 you open up to your sexuality

[Benjamin]

Says the 30 years old man who was dressed like 15 yo skater on New Year's Eve.

Five years from now, she sits at home
Feeding the baby, she's all alone

[Jesus.]

Well, thing is, people say, infact someone in here already said, I liked boys from when i was born. That to me is absurd lol most "straight" boys hate girls until they're almost at a teenage stage. My 9 year old still closes his eyes if he sees people on TV kissing :laugh:

As a straight boy, that's not necessarily true. I remember having sort of attraction feelings but not really understanding them, and from my own experience it was easier to say that I hated girls to avoid being teased about different girls and having a girlfriend. I definitely didn't hate girls, but I wasn't equipped to deal with the other side of the coin.

[Z]

Five years from now, she sits at home
Feeding the baby, she's all alone

[...] Looks up at the man
That she turned dooooowwwwn


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/dazzle_me90/GIF/pleasekillthatwomanshe8217sshouting.gif

[Chuck]

[...] Looks up at the man
That she turned dooooowwwwn


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/dazzle_me90/GIF/pleasekillthatwomanshe8217sshouting.gif

[..]Now he's a superstar
Slamming on his guitar
Does your pretty face see what he's worth?

[Z]

[..]Now he's a superstar
Slamming on his guitar
Does your pretty face see what he's worth?

God I remember not finding Avril annoying and repetitive, she was pretty great back then

[Niamh.]

As a straight boy, that's not necessarily true. I remember having sort of attraction feelings but not really understanding them, and from my own experience it was easier to say that I hated girls to avoid being teased about different girls and having a girlfriend. I definitely didn't hate girls, but I wasn't equipped to deal with the other side of the coin.

mmm well, i was never a boy, straight or not so I don't know :laugh: I actually don't even remember myself at what point I noticed an attraction to the opposite sex

[Z]

mmm well, i was never a boy, straight or not so I don't know :laugh: I actually don't even remember myself at what point I noticed an attraction to the opposite sex

I think it's normal for kids to do the whole "ugh, gross" thing at kissing, think you only really become aware of romantic feelings when you're like 12 or 13

[Niamh.]

I think it's normal for kids to do the whole "ugh, gross" thing at kissing, think you only really become aware of romantic feelings when you're like 12 or 13

yeah, I think that's when I became interested

[Kizzy]

Good point Toy Soldier, nurture is wrongly equated with the choice argument... I do think nurture plays a role in the development of everyone's psyche (because that's what nurturing is - development) - just as someone can become afraid of spiders or become passionate about being a trapeze artist; someone can develop a love or hate for all sorts of things... but ultimately I think a person is born gay.

Yes me too, but for some the psycho-sexual stimulus is felt earlier due to environment.

[Kizzy]

http://messenger.msn.co.uk/MMM2006-04-19_17.00/Resource/emoticons/clock.gif

I'm begging a mod to add this to emoticons!

[Z]

I'm begging a mod to add this to emoticons!

:laugh:

Yeah I agree with you about some people being affected earlier than others... interesting topic, I hope it's something that can be proven some way in my lifetime!

[user104658]

As a straight boy, that's not necessarily true. I remember having sort of attraction feelings but not really understanding them, and from my own experience it was easier to say that I hated girls to avoid being teased about different girls and having a girlfriend. I definitely didn't hate girls, but I wasn't equipped to deal with the other side of the coin.

Agreed; I distinctly remember having "feelings" for a girl in my class when I was 6 :hugesmile:. I remember telling my mum's friend (in confidence) that I had met a girl at school who I was going to marry. And being confused when she wouldn't stop giggling :(.

But yeah, I also remember being "chased" by a group of girls who were pushing along another girl who apparently "fancied me" trying to get us to kiss when I was maybe 8 or 9. It was all running away and "Eww! Yuck! I hate girls!!" but it was more just embarrassment / not knowing how to react.

I also remember a few 8 and 9 year olds having "girlfriends and boyfriends" ... and also, a 10 year old boy getting a blowjob from a 12 year old girl behind the bike sheds. How ****ed up is that? At the time it seemed like he must have been "so cool"... but thinking about it now... children! Children getting sucked off at school :(. So messed up, hahaha.

[Z]

I honestly havent got a clue. It is rather disturbing though that so many people seem to state with absolute certainty it is 100% nature end of discussion. Id imagine we are pretty early in our studying and understanding of this. sexuality is profoundly complex

Well I think when the debate has only opened up to "nature or nature", providing only two options, it's going to encourage a decisive opinion. It's a bit like asking someone if they're left or right, politically, when in reality if you asked someone in detail about their political views you'd find that two people who responded with the same answer actually have totally different views and can't possibly be categorised as being of the same opinion.

I agree that our understanding of sexuality is limited, but from what we do/don't know at this stage, I think it's very easy to say it's nature or nurture; we just don't know.

[Glenn.]

I think people are born gay. If it was nurture, then you wouldnt get brothers and sisters that were different sexualities.

Also don't think its a choice. Without offendng gay people (which I probably will do anyway) I dont see why anyone would actually chose to go against the 'norm' so to speak, and put themselves through all of the **** that apparently comes with being gay (ridicule when young, homophobia etc)

:worship:

I'm not offended.

Speaking personally, it isn't a choice I made to feel the way I do about men. It affects my relationship with my dad to the point where I don't like him a lot of the time and vice versa. He's dead against gay people in every shape and form. My brother is gay and he's in a serious relationship with another man, one day I think they will get married and my father has stated quite ignorantly, that he wont be attending, and that he doesn't agree with it. No one would choose to be outcasted and made to feel inadequate of their own accord.

Although I have had relationships with women, (one quite serious, until she cheated on me :inamood: ) I'm now settled within myself about my feelings towards men but like I say, it affects my relationship with my dad, and we were once quite close. When he got wind that I liked cock he slipped away. I wish it was different of course, but thats the way it is.

If only it was a choice I could make :fist:

[Z]

Glenn :hug: do you talk to your brother about it?

[Glenn.]

Yeah we talk about it all the time. It doesn't phase him tbh. I always worried how people would treat me. I came out to him first because he had already done it.

He helped a lot :love:

[Z]

That's good, at least you have each other! It's your dad's loss if he wants to ignore you for something you can't change :hug:

[lostalex]

It's impossible to study because there's no way to tell who is gay and who's not because so many gay people are in the closet. Also what does gay mean? Does it mean any one that has ANY sexual attraction to the same sex? or does it only mean people who have full on relationships with the same sex? or does it mean anyone who's ever had actual sex with someone of the same sex? Does it mean just people who label themselves gay?

We can't even define what gay means so how can we actually study it?

As far as my romantic and sexual attraction to men, I personally believe it is biological. I certainly never made any kind of "choice" to be gay and there is nothing in my childhood that I could point to and think "that might have made me gay".

[Glenn.]

My brother always says, 'We're not the abnormal ones' :laugh:

Its only my dad that has a problem with it. The rest of the family embraced it like it was the norm. My grandad was a bit on the fence and if he disagree with it, he keeps it to himself instead of vomiting ignorant bile. My dad on the other hand is a different kettle of fish.

[Niamh.]

:worship:

I'm not offended.

Speaking personally, it isn't a choice I made to feel the way I do about men. It affects my relationship with my dad to the point where I don't like him a lot of the time and vice versa. He's dead against gay people in every shape and form. My brother is gay and he's in a serious relationship with another man, one day I think they will get married and my father has stated quite ignorantly, that he wont be attending, and that he doesn't agree with it. No one would choose to be outcasted and made to feel inadequate of their own accord.

Although I have had relationships with women, (one quite serious, until she cheated on me :inamood: ) I'm now settled within myself about my feelings towards men but like I say, it affects my relationship with my dad, and we were once quite close. When he got wind that I liked cock he slipped away. I wish it was different of course, but thats the way it is.

If only it was a choice I could make :fist:

awww that's terrible Glenn :hug: I just don't understand how a parent could do that. I hope he realizes that as well

[Glenn.]

It doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would tbh. It's more annoying then anything. Sometimes the things he says are so ridiculously stupid it makes me laugh.

[Niamh.]

It doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would tbh. It's more annoying then anything. Sometimes the things he says are so ridiculously stupid it makes me laugh.

Well, he's the one who's going to miss out in the end

[Glenn.]

He'll miss out on a top notch wedding if I ever get married that's for sure.

[Niamh.]

He'll miss out on a top notch wedding if I ever get married that's for sure.

:laugh:

I'm glad you have good support in the rest of your family though

[Glenn.]

It does put a strain on the family though, especially with my mum. The arguments they've had about it. But I am lucky to have such a supportive family. They're the best :love:

[Niamh.]

It does put a strain on the family though, especially with my mum. The arguments they've had about it. But I am lucky to have such a supportive family. They're the best :love:

Must be really hard for her, i couldn't imagine being in that position

[Z]

Maybe your dad hated a gay guy when he was young and now it really bothers him that his sons are gay. I always think about that whenever I see homophobic abuse; would these people say these things if one of their kids turned out to be gay? Hopefully he'll get over himself eventually Glenn!

[Glenn.]

I think he's just a prick tbh :laugh:

He's just an ignorant pig if I'm honest. I don't really like him much.

[Z]

I think he's just a prick tbh :laugh:

He's just an ignorant pig if I'm honest. I don't really like him much.

:hug: At least the rest of your family are supportive!