The whole gay choice thing

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Whilst I respect people should be allowed freedom of speech saying being gay can be fixed is such an irritating thing to hear.

I thought fine its his opinion but when he went on to call us handicapped and compared it to going to hospital to get a broken leg fixed was totally stupid.

So can a person who is born blind be fixed or someone who has Down syndrome be cured and healed?

He was in my top 3 housemates but ive gone off him slowly.

Im all for freedom of speech, just because I got offended that doesn't mean it shouldn't been shown on tv as it brings the issue to light.

thats one of the reasons I love the show it does actually get people on the outside world talking about serious issues.

Im glad he wasn't formally warned but being compared to a handicap was a bit out of order.

Cant wait for him to meet Rylan haha

[Benjamin]

My thread was closed :(

[daniel-lewis-1985]

I only just watched the episode so...

[the truth]

Whilst I respect people should be allowed freedom of speech saying being gay can be fixed is such an irritating thing to hear.

I thought fine its his opinion but when he went on to call us handicapped and compared it to going to hospital to get a broken leg fixed was totally stupid.

So can a person who is born blind be fixed or someone who has Down syndrome be cured and healed?

He was in my top 3 housemates but ive gone off him slowly.

Im all for freedom of speech, just because I got offended that doesn't mean it shouldn't been shown on tv as it brings the issue to light.

thats one of the reasons I love the show it does actually get people on the outside world talking about serious issues.

Im glad he wasn't formally warned but being compared to a handicap was a bit out of order.

Cant wait for him to meet Rylan haha

he didnt exactly say that did he? thats been taken a bit out of context and over the top. hes not the most eloquent of people either. he wasnt trying to offend either. he didnt compare it directly to disablity at all....he just mumbled something vague about people can get help from doctors

he does believe its a choice at least in some cases and he seems to believe medical help can be sought and given for homosexuality.
is he right in some cases? I honestly dont know. but the comments on here about how disgusting he is and how ignorant and some who want him booted out for merely expressing his opinion to a conversation luissa invited him into , are ridiculously over the top. one poster has even comapred it to hitler and the nazis?

also those posters who claim some divine right to only have their opinions heard and who claim that they know for certain every person on the planet doesnt choose their sexuality but are born with it, are stupendously arrogant and in stereotyping everyone are ignorant in a different way. they also support the raidcal PC agenda to outlaw censor and ban any differing opinions. claiming thats whats good for society and thats progress. its not. its totalitarian bull**** what takes these issues no further forward at all.

no doubt holyfield and the whole show will now be overshadowed by this hysterical nonsense. we are such a dumb deluded country.

we get one small understanding of a topic and we think were world leaders who can dictate to the rest of the world how to think and what theyre all allowed to say.

granted people across the world in many areas face discrimination and torture, that includes gay , disabled, blind, sick, poor, starving etc but thats not really the case in europe. clearly bullying does exist though and i deplore that. instead of hanging holyfield we should discuss it in the mainstream.

all we ever do in the Uk is discuss having a discission. the discussion never happens because everyone gets offended before the chat has even started

[JTM45]

How do you have the gall to call yourself 'The Truth' (snigger...) when you tell so many lies ?
The way the OP described Evander's comments were spot-on but you, yet again, have to claim he didn't compare it to a disability. He DID!!! Read the transcript, re-watch the clip because it obviously didn't sink in the first time or maybe you just don't understand things too well.
You called someone a liar earlier because they said Conor went unpunished and you claimed Conor was ejected. He WASN'T!!! You're full of it!
And the person you're refering to in the "one poster has even comapred it to hitler and the nazis?" comment was obviously myself. That is clearly not what i did!!! Oh....but you'd rather convey it in a far more over the top manner!
Do you even know what 'totalitarian' means because the way you used the word would indicate otherwise!

The last thread on this subject was closed because you started throwing petty insults around and attempting to bait other forum users.

Are you 5 years old because you're acting like you are ? :hugesmile:

[Jordan.]

Reading the transcript back he wasn't even just polietly given an opinion like some are making out. It was out right homophobic saying "That's not normal" and comparing it to an illness.

[BigBrotherfan4ever]

Whilst I respect people should be allowed freedom of speech saying being gay can be fixed is such an irritating thing to hear.

I thought fine its his opinion but when he went on to call us handicapped and compared it to going to hospital to get a broken leg fixed was totally stupid.

So can a person who is born blind be fixed or someone who has Down syndrome be cured and healed?

He was in my top 3 housemates but ive gone off him slowly.

Im all for freedom of speech, just because I got offended that doesn't mean it shouldn't been shown on tv as it brings the issue to light.

thats one of the reasons I love the show it does actually get people on the outside world talking about serious issues.

Im glad he wasn't formally warned but being compared to a handicap was a bit out of order.

Cant wait for him to meet Rylan haha
Absolutely agree with you, wil interesting when when he meets Rylan, I read on twitter or FB Rylan not happy about his comments but he said as a presenter of BBBOTS basically he has to remain impartial , but you tell it really has upset Rylan.

[letmein]

What's with all this freedom of speech nonsense? There is no freedom of speech. Britain has strict hate speech laws, and this is a television show. They can do what they want in regards to who goes and who stays on BB. What he said is absolutely abhorrent. People making excuses for him are just as bad.

[letmein]

Reading the transcript back he wasn't even just polietly given an opinion like some are making out. It was out right homophobic saying "That's not normal" and comparing it to an illness.

If it's a handicap, then the government should be subsidizing every gay person in the country. :dance:

[Northern Monkey]

Fair point OP.

[joeysteele]

He indicated that being gay was the same as having a handicap that maybe could be fixed.
No matter how it gets drressed up, he clearly sees gay people as ill in some warped way.
That was the thrust of his justification of his opinion that people should not and need not be gay.

Thst opinion is not one that in fact can be seen as a right one.
He was out of order making it on a TV programme that is being filmed 24/7 which he clearly knows it is too.

I had some respect for him until this nonsense he spouted out last night.
His attitude if held by masses of people would have the lives of gay people made a misery all over again.
At times it is still really bad they come up against bigoted and prejudiced views such as what we heard last night from Evander.

[Northern Monkey]

Who's to say he is wrong though?If being gay is not a choice then who's to say that in the future it may not be changable if it's hormonal or psychological or both?His wording was clumsy comparing it to being handicapped as some people may be offended but people get offended by alot of different things.He offered his opinion on the subject,It's our choice to agree or disagree with it.

[Ammi]

..it is quite interesting though because I'm assuming that his religion/beliefs would say 'gay is wrong' and I'm also trying to equate this with Ron Atkinson and racism and how he expressed his views, in that it was 'off camera' remarks but said in an insulting way because he was frustrated/annoyed at the time..whereas Evander wasn't, it was just a conversation where he was expressing his views...I think when someone does that and in a 'non hate' way, no matter how much people may disagree with them, to be offended/outraged etc isn't really constructive and for someone like Evander, it's more to discuss them with him in more depth and 'educate'...I wish Luisa had taken that opportunity rather than say, oh you can't say that because Evander honestly doesn't seem to know why he can't say that or why believing it is wrong..?...

[arista]

its a Bible Thing.



he was warned never to do it again


But his views are now Public in the UK.

[Jamesy]

Yeah it's a tricky one. I think we've all got to remember the older generations come from the time where being gay or liking the same sex was wrong. It's only really a recent thing that people are becoming more open with their sexuality and accepted.

Evander comes from one of those older generations. It's a shame Luisa didn't try to expand on it with him and try to enlighten him a little more. It might have not changed his views but I think the conversation was viewed more of a time for him to make a horrible remark about gay people when really that is the way he was brought up to think and they were starting a conversation about it. He didn't exactly say being gay is wrong straight off out the blue, Luisa started questioning him about gay boxers and it lead from there.

Tbh I think Big Brother just gave him a warning for the sake of it to show 'support' for gays. Just informing him of how it may offend others was fine, although giving someone a warning for expressing their own views? That's censorship at its best!

[arista]

Yeah it's a tricky one. I think we've all got to remember the older generations come from the time where being gay or liking the same sex was wrong. It's only really a recent thing that people are becoming more open with their sexuality and accepted.

Evander comes from one of those older generations. It's a shame Luisa didn't try to expand on it with him and try to enlighten him a little more. It might have not changed his views but I think the conversation was viewed more of a time for him to make a horrible remark about gay people when really that is the way he was brought up to think and they were starting a conversation about it. He didn't exactly say being gay is wrong straight off out the blue, Luisa started questioning him about gay boxers and it lead from there.

Tbh I think Big Brother just gave him a warning for the sake of it to show 'support' for gays. Just informing him of how it may offend others was fine, although giving someone a warning for expressing their own views? That's censorship at its best!


Yes but its normal on TV or Forums

[Ammi]

Yeah it's a tricky one. I think we've all got to remember the older generations come from the time where being gay or liking the same sex was wrong. It's only really a recent thing that people are becoming more open with their sexuality and accepted.

Evander comes from one of those older generations. It's a shame Luisa didn't try to expand on it with him and try to enlighten him a little more. It might have not changed his views but I think the conversation was viewed more of a time for him to make a horrible remark about gay people when really that is the way he was brought up to think and they were starting a conversation about it. He didn't exactly say being gay is wrong straight off out the blue, Luisa started questioning him about gay boxers and it lead from there.

Tbh I think Big Brother just gave him a warning for the sake of it to show 'support' for gays. Just informing him of how it may offend others was fine, although giving someone a warning for expressing their own views? That's censorship at its best!


..the thing I would say there though, Jamesy is that I personally know of youger Christians who are very good people in many ways but they do have specific views about homosexuality because of their religion, which they strongly belief..it isn't just an 'older' thing...

[starry]

The issue is actually being warned over it, which is stupid. It's just picking and choosing which prejudicial comments are aired and warned over. It's CH5 making an issue of something to generate more controversy and it's treating it like a kid's show where we are told some prejudices are ok and others aren't.

They can **** off. It's reality TV supposedly, so show it warts and all.

[sampvt]

Yeah it's a tricky one. I think we've all got to remember the older generations come from the time where being gay or liking the same sex was wrong. It's only really a recent thing that people are becoming more open with their sexuality and accepted.

Evander comes from one of those older generations. It's a shame Luisa didn't try to expand on it with him and try to enlighten him a little more. It might have not changed his views but I think the conversation was viewed more of a time for him to make a horrible remark about gay people when really that is the way he was brought up to think and they were starting a conversation about it. He didn't exactly say being gay is wrong straight off out the blue, Luisa started questioning him about gay boxers and it lead from there.

Tbh I think Big Brother just gave him a warning for the sake of it to show 'support' for gays. Just informing him of how it may offend others was fine, although giving someone a warning for expressing their own views? That's censorship at its best!

Great post and as an older person, I can see what both you and he means but in this country the PC thing is getting out of control. Soon it will be illegal to say hoodies, gangsters and vandals are bad people. He was pretty naïve to say what he did but in essence, it was his opinion from one person to another that was quizzing him and I cant see he meant it in malice.

[Jack_]

He wasn't warned. This misconception is annoying me now because the transcripts and clips are available for everyone to see.

He was merely reminded of the rules and that what he said could potentially be offensive to some viewers. It's the exact same conversation that his agent would have had with him if he could, because you can't say stuff like that on a national TV show in the UK. Not only do C5 have a brand to protect but it's social suicide, and hence such a reminder was to be expected and was also justified.

But he wasn't given any kind of official formal warning.

[arista]

The issue is actually being warned over it, which is stupid. It's just picking and choosing which prejudicial comments are aired and warned over. It's CH5 making an issue of something to generate more controversy and it's treating it like a kid's show where we are told some prejudices are ok and others aren't.

They can **** off. It's reality TV supposedly, so show it warts and all.


It would be the same on Ch4 as well.

TV has to censor Extreme views, its normal

[arista]

He wasn't warned. This misconception is annoying me now because the transcripts and clips are available for everyone to see.

He was merely reminded of the rules and that what he said could potentially be offensive to some viewers. It's the exact same conversation that his agent would have had with him if he could, because you can't say stuff like that on a national TV show in the UK. Not only do C5 have a brand to protect but it's social suicide, and hence such a reminder was to be expected and was also justified.

But he wasn't given any kind of official formal warning.


that clip was Edited
We do not Know if he was warned - to be fair Jack
but he got Told Off in the Edit we viewed

[Niamh.]

I think it's very unhelpful for a man in his position to be airing those views so publicly. I don't understand the need for people with these views to share them with others, I really don't, I mean why hurt people for no reason? He's not gay so couldn't possibly know what it feels like to be gay or "know" that people choose to be gay. Other peoples sexuality doesn't effect him anyway so why be a dick to a group of people that don't even effect him?

[sampvt]

OH FFS, do we need to have another thread like this. There was 529 hits on the other one that got closed because it was becoming a straight bashing exercise and an argument about whether he got warned ort not. The clip we saw was edited, so he may have been warned (IN WORDS OF OFFICIALDOM) off camera and what he said was off the cuff and has been discussed to death. OK he might be a bit of a homophobe but that's his world.

Last time I looked, gays on tv like Alan Carr and the like, say things 10 times worse all the time. Vegans have extreme views on meat eaters, Greenpeace has extreme views on world affairs and the planet and people with gender issues are very verbal against people that don't sing their tune. There is a bit of a difference between a statement of intent and an innocuous comment between friends. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to even broach the subject of gay issues on here due to the large imbalance and the added shield of PC immunity on here, so I guess we will have to live with it but to pillory the man for what he said is wrong. He should have been advised to tone it down. In my book he was neither better nor worse than the comments made by the tart about finger bashing. However on here it seems to be virtually impossible to discuss gay issues rationally so we need to sideline it as an expression fo an opinion that went out of control. But he was warned so he now knows.

[Niamh.]

Sam, it's a good discussion and I don't see why people shouldn't be able to talk about it with insulting other members.

[sampvt]

Sam, it's a good discussion and I don't see why people shouldn't be able to talk about it with insulting other members.

Im not insulting anyone nor do I infer than discussions are not allowed, I simply intimated that this is an extension of the other thread that got out of control and there was very little left to say as tempers were flared and fall outs happened. God knows how I will ever get Jack to love me now as my label of Paper boy seems to have stuck on him and he may have a contract on me now.

[Niamh.]

Im not insulting anyone nor do I infer than discussions are not allowed, I simply intimated that this is an extension of the other thread that got out of control and there was very little left to say as tempers were flared and fall outs happened. God knows how I will ever get Jack to love me now as my label of Paper boy seems to have stuck on him and he may have a contract on me now.

I didn't say you were insulting anyone Sam (although was there really a need to bring Jack into a discussion between me and you?) I meant the last thread was closed because people became insulting, maybe we could try and talk about one of the biggest stories of last nights show without getting personal with eachother this time

[sampvt]

I didn't say you were insulting anyone Sam (although was there really a need to bring Jack into a discussion between me and you?) I meant the last thread was closed because people became insulting, maybe we could try and talk about one of the biggest stories of last nights show without getting personal with eachother this time

I brought Jack into this room as he is already in it. Also it was a bit of levity and not malice.

[Niamh.]

I brought Jack into this room as he is already in it. Also it was a bit of levity and not malice.

Ok but we need to stick to the discussion rather then other forum members, that way threads don't get closed

[Ammi]

..I do think it is quite an interesting discussion to have because it was just said in a 'matter of fact' conversation way and yet it's obviously a homophobic view and I don't think it's an 'age' thing at all but a religious thing...

[Niamh.]

..I do think it is quite an interesting discussion to have because it was just said in a 'matter of fact' conversation way and yet it's obviously a homophobic view and I don't think it's an 'age' thing at all but a religious thing...

Yeah, definitely in Evanders case i think it's a religious thing, he did mention the bible a couple of times during the conversation iirc

[the truth]

How do you have the gall to call yourself 'The Truth' (snigger...) when you tell so many lies ?
The way the OP described Evander's comments were spot-on but you, yet again, have to claim he didn't compare it to a disability. He DID!!! Read the transcript, re-watch the clip because it obviously didn't sink in the first time or maybe you just don't understand things too well.
You called someone a liar earlier because they said Conor went unpunished and you claimed Conor was ejected. He WASN'T!!! You're full of it!
And the person you're refering to in the "one poster has even comapred it to hitler and the nazis?" comment was obviously myself. That is clearly not what i did!!! Oh....but you'd rather convey it in a far more over the top manner!
Do you even know what 'totalitarian' means because the way you used the word would indicate otherwise!

The last thread on this subject was closed because you started throwing petty insults around and attempting to bait other forum users.

Are you 5 years old because you're acting like you are ? :hugesmile:

you he didnt youre taking things out of context, in short youre lying.

[the truth]

He wasn't warned. This misconception is annoying me now because the transcripts and clips are available for everyone to see.

He was merely reminded of the rules and that what he said could potentially be offensive to some viewers. It's the exact same conversation that his agent would have had with him if he could, because you can't say stuff like that on a national TV show in the UK. Not only do C5 have a brand to protect but it's social suicide, and hence such a reminder was to be expected and was also justified.

But he wasn't given any kind of official formal warning.

he was warned. big brother used the word warn when telling him. that means he was warned. end of.

[starry]

It would be the same on Ch4 as well.

TV has to censor Extreme views, its normal

They censor what prejudices they want a controversy over and think aren't fashionable and turn a blind eye to others. That itself is a prejudice.

[Ammi]

Yeah, definitely in Evanders case i think it's a religious thing, he did mention the bible a couple of times during the conversation iirc

..I get a bit annoyed when some people assume it's an 'older' thing..oh, older people are just intolerant/set in their views etc because like anything, views are specific to the person and not to an age and I know of a few younger people who are absolutely lovely/kind/caring etc..just really nice people and who their Christianity has become a huge part of their lives as they were in their late teens and I'm quite staggered at their views on gay people..so it's completely to do with beliefs and not age because it's also not something taught through their parents either...I wish that Luisa had questioned and talked to him more about it all, rather than just say..that's wrong/you can't say that because that's not going to make him think about it, whereas discussing it with him just might....

[Tom4784]

Evander's entitled to his opinion just like we're entitled to rip it apart.

He's an incredibly ignorant person but I don't think he's a bad guy, I'm not supporting him any more though.

[Niamh.]

..I get a bit annoyed when some people assume it's an 'older' thing..oh, older people are just intolerant/set in their views etc because like anything, views are specific to the person and not to an age and I know of a few younger people who are absolutely lovely/kind/caring etc..just really nice people and who their Christianity has become a huge part of their lives as they were in their late teens and I'm quite staggered at their views on gay people..so it's completely to do with beliefs and not age because it's also not something taught through their parents either...I wish that Luisa had questioned and talked to him more about it all, rather than just say..that's wrong/you can't say that because that's not going to make him think about it, whereas discussing it with him just might....

I think Luisa knew that he was going to get in trouble for what he was saying which is why she wanted him to stop.

I think there might be some truth to some of the older generation maybe not being as accepting as alot of the younger generation (although i wouldn't generalize a whole demographic either) simply because being gay wasn't acceptable in society when alot of older people were growing and when their opinions might have been forming.

[chuff me dizzy]

he didnt exactly say that did he? thats been taken a bit out of context and over the top. hes not the most eloquent of people either. he wasnt trying to offend either. he didnt compare it directly to disablity at all....he just mumbled something vague about people can get help from doctors

he does believe its a choice at least in some cases and he seems to believe medical help can be sought and given for homosexuality.
is he right in some cases? I honestly dont know. but the comments on here about how disgusting he is and how ignorant and some who want him booted out for merely expressing his opinion to a conversation luissa invited him into , are ridiculously over the top. one poster has even comapred it to hitler and the nazis?

also those posters who claim some divine right to only have their opinions heard and who claim that they know for certain every person on the planet doesnt choose their sexuality but are born with it, are stupendously arrogant and in stereotyping everyone are ignorant in a different way. they also support the raidcal PC agenda to outlaw censor and ban any differing opinions. claiming thats whats good for society and thats progress. its not. its totalitarian bull**** what takes these issues no further forward at all.

no doubt holyfield and the whole show will now be overshadowed by this hysterical nonsense. we are such a dumb deluded country.

we get one small understanding of a topic and we think were world leaders who can dictate to the rest of the world how to think and what theyre all allowed to say.

granted people across the world in many areas face discrimination and torture, that includes gay , disabled, blind, sick, poor, starving etc but thats not really the case in europe. clearly bullying does exist though and i deplore that. instead of hanging holyfield we should discuss it in the mainstream.

all we ever do in the Uk is discuss having a discission. the discussion never happens because everyone gets offended before the chat has even started

Excellent post ,and so very true

[Ammi]

I think Luisa knew that he was going to get in trouble for what he was saying which is why she wanted him to stop.

I think there might be some truth to some of the older generation maybe not being as accepting as alot of the younger generation (although i wouldn't generalize a whole demographic either) simply because being gay wasn't acceptable in society when alot of older people were growing and when they're opinions might have been forming.

..yeah, I guess you're right in that it wasn't so accepted 'back in the day..'..but I guess it annoys me in this case maybe because for him it is more of a religious belief, but it could in all honesty be a bit of both and also a very 'macho' environment of boxing...?...

[Niamh.]

..yeah, I guess you're right in that it wasn't so accepted 'back in the day..'..but I guess it annoys me in this case maybe because for him it is more of a religious belief, but it could in all honesty be a bit of both and also a very 'macho' environment of boxing...?...

Oh yeah in his case I definitely think it's religious and quite possibly a little to do with his profession

[Seanbon]

He indicated that being gay was the same as having a handicap that maybe could be fixed.
No matter how it gets drressed up, he clearly sees gay people as ill in some warped way.
That was the thrust of his justification of his opinion that people should not and need not be gay.

Thst opinion is not one that in fact can be seen as a right one.
He was out of order making it on a TV programme that is being filmed 24/7 which he clearly knows it is too.

I had some respect for him until this nonsense he spouted out last night.
His attitude if held by masses of people would have the lives of gay people made a misery all over again.
At times it is still really bad they come up against bigoted and prejudiced views such as what we heard last night from Evander.

If he has been raised in a fundamental Christian family/church,this belief has probably been preached to him as a fact! To him it is a fact,no matter how abhorrent it is to the you or I?!?
His understanding of BB is debatable too! I don't think he realises that every conversation is picked up and/or broadcast!?!

[daniel-lewis-1985]

OH FFS, do we need to have another thread like this. There was 529 hits on the other one that got closed because it was becoming a straight bashing exercise and an argument about whether he got warned ort not. The clip we saw was edited, so he may have been warned (IN WORDS OF OFFICIALDOM) off camera and what he said was off the cuff and has been discussed to death. OK he might be a bit of a homophobe but that's his world.

Last time I looked, gays on tv like Alan Carr and the like, say things 10 times worse all the time. Vegans have extreme views on meat eaters, Greenpeace has extreme views on world affairs and the planet and people with gender issues are very verbal against people that don't sing their tune. There is a bit of a difference between a statement of intent and an innocuous comment between friends. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to even broach the subject of gay issues on here due to the large imbalance and the added shield of PC immunity on here, so I guess we will have to live with it but to pillory the man for what he said is wrong. He should have been advised to tone it down. In my book he was neither better nor worse than the comments made by the tart about finger bashing. However on here it seems to be virtually impossible to discuss gay issues rationally so we need to sideline it as an expression fo an opinion that went out of control. But he was warned so he now knows.

Erm...I think my original post is very open minded and not one sided and was intended to get people to actually discuss it and not throw insults like the last one.

The post I see a forum member denying he said certain comments is just ridiculous.

Im all for freedom of speech and I wanted to hear more of the conversation to be honest I was genuinely interested in what he had to say.

Surely you must understand being compared to a handicap and saying we are wrong could cause insult?

Hes a devout Christian from a black community in America who are very passionate about the Bible to a point they seem slightly brainwashed by it.

I am not "wrong" or a "handicap" neither do I need to be fixed.

I think people are more angry because even though it was an apparent opinion he was preaching it and forcing his opinion as fact.

Heres some of the things he said, it wasn't really an *in my opinion I think....Which would have made it a lot better as the words he said WERE homophobic.

"That ain't normal"

"If you were born and your leg were turned this way - what would you do? You go to the doctor and get it fixed back right?"

"All I'm trying to tell you, you know how handicap people are born?"

"You can’t say because they are born that way you can’t move that..."

"Yes it is a choice,"

In regards to Luisa I don't think she didn't want to talk about it because he may get into trouble, I think she thinks it will put her in the firing line to face eviction as they are chained up together.

[the truth]

Erm...I think my original post is very open minded and not one sided and was intended to get people to actually discuss it and not throw insults like the last one.

The post I see a forum member denying he said certain comments.

Im all for freedom of speech and I wanted to hear more of the conversation.

Surely you must understand being compared to a handicap and saying we are wrong could cause insult?

Hes a devout Christian from a black community in America who are very passionate about the Bible to a point they seem slightly brainwashed by it.

I am not "wrong" or a "handicap" neither do I need to be fixed.

he didnt say its a handicap
also how would you like it if someone said youd been brainwashed to be gay? just as you say the Christian in the US seem to be brainwashed?
this works both ways

[chuff me dizzy]

he didnt say its a handicap
also how would you like it if someone said youd been brainwashed to be gay? just as you say the Christian in the US seem to be brainwashed?
this works both ways

Yes it does work both ways

[Scream]

May I just say the people who are saying he's not an eloquent speaker are talking crap...

Firstly, just because you aren't very fluent in a language doesn't mean it's acceptable to speak about people in the way he did otherwise people would be using that as an excuse all the time.

Also, i'm sure he knows what handicapped and not normal means...he's not thick.

[Seanbon]

I think Luisa knew that he was going to get in trouble for what he was saying which is why she wanted him to stop.

I think there might be some truth to some of the older generation maybe not being as accepting as alot of the younger generation (although i wouldn't generalize a whole demographic either) simply because being gay wasn't acceptable in society when alot of older people were growing and when their opinions might have been forming.

I think Luisa made very little effort to stop him! She knew it would be controversial,and get her some airtime,so she put in a "You can't say that" and a "I'm not comfortable with this",or words to that effect. If she had told him to shut it,as every whisper of conversation is brought up and he'll get himself into trouble,that would have been a proper effort!?!

[the truth]

May I just say the people who are saying he's not an eloquent speaker are talking crap...

Firstly, just because you aren't very fluent in a language doesn't mean it's acceptable to speak about people in the way he did otherwise people would be using that as an excuse all the time.

Also, i'm sure he knows what handicapped and not normal means...he's not thick.

but its ok to egenralize that all american Christians may be brainwashed? double standards

[Niamh.]

I think Luisa made very little effort to stop him! She knew it would be controversial,and get her some airtime,so she put in a "You can't say that" and a "I'm not comfortable with this",or words to that effect. If she had told him to shut it,as every whisper of conversation is brought up and he'll get himself into trouble,that would have been a proper effort!?!

I thought she did anyway. I don't remember her exact words but I'm pretty sure she told him he should stop talking about it

[chuff me dizzy]

I think Luisa made very little effort to stop him! She knew it would be controversial,and get her some airtime,so she put in a "You can't say that" and a "I'm not comfortable with this",or words to that effect. If she had told him to shut it,as every whisper of conversation is brought up and he'll get himself into trouble,that would have been a proper effort!?!

Luisa was loving the camera time, she knew cameras would stay on the conversation,she half heartedly tried to stop him,but in a lame way

[chuff me dizzy]

but its ok to egenralize that all american Christians may be brainwashed? double standards

Agree totally

[Seanbon]

I thought she did anyway. I don't remember her exact words but I'm pretty sure she told him he should stop talking about it

In a half-hearted way,imo! She's a bit sneaky and manipulative,which is great in the Apprentice,not so much in BB.

[the truth]

I thought she did anyway. I don't remember her exact words but I'm pretty sure she told him he should stop talking about it

luissa created the entire situation then as usual played dumb and all innocent
shes lethally dangerous, in fact shes toxic

[Ammi]

I think Luisa made very little effort to stop him! She knew it would be controversial,and get her some airtime,so she put in a "You can't say that" and a "I'm not comfortable with this",or words to that effect. If she had told him to shut it,as every whisper of conversation is brought up and he'll get himself into trouble,that would have been a proper effort!?!

..I guess that in general their pairing seems quite awkward so maybe she was trying to do that but not really getting it right...

[Ammi]

luissa created the entire situation then as usual played dumb and all innocent
shes lethally dangerous, in fact shes toxic

..I don't understand how Luisa created the situation of him saying what he did..?...he has full responsibility for that....

[Niamh.]

luissa created the entire situation then as usual played dumb and all innocent
shes lethally dangerous, in fact shes toxic

I didn't know her from before CBB so I'm still trying to form an opinion on her

[Niamh.]

In a half-hearted way,imo! She's a bit sneaky and manipulative,which is great in the Apprentice,not so much in BB.

Could be an interesting character though, sneaky and manipulative makes for good storylines :laugh:

[chuff me dizzy]

luissa created the entire situation then as usual played dumb and all innocent
shes lethally dangerous, in fact shes toxic

You are on form today Truth ,agree with this too ,she wanted that camera on her no matter what ,so instead of stopping the convo stone dead ,she strung it along ,also knowing Evander is a very religious man,he could well have strong views on gay sex ,and she started the talk maybe to set him up, not my type of person

[Seanbon]

..I guess that in general their pairing seems quite awkward so maybe she was trying to do that but not really getting it right...

If you haven't seen the last series of The Apprentice,you should check it out! She's very manipulative,and good at playing innocent when it suits,which is ideal for the murky world of big business,but she'll take a few Celebrities down in BB,if they don't know her game!?!:devil:

[the truth]

[/I][/B]

If you haven't seen the last series of The Apprentice,you should check it out! She's very manipulative,and good at playing innocent when it suits,which is ideal for the murky world of big business,but she'll take a few Celebrities down in BB,if they don't know her game!?!:devil:

as I said shes absolutely toxic

[daniel-lewis-1985]

he didnt say its a handicap
also how would you like it if someone said youd been brainwashed to be gay? just as you say the Christian in the US seem to be brainwashed?
this works both ways

Being gay isn't a choice.

Being a Christian is.

[chuff me dizzy]

Being gay isn't a choice.

Being a Christian is.

As i pointed out last night ,sometimes being gay is a choice

[the truth]

Being gay isn't a choice.

Being a Christian is.

again thats no less offensive that what evander said.
total judgemental assumptions stereotyping billions of people.
yet stereotyping and insulting groups of people is something you preach about/
totla hypocrisy
maybe its you whos been brainwashed?

[daniel-lewis-1985]

You are on form today Truth ,agree with this too ,she wanted that camera on her no matter what ,so instead of stopping the convo stone dead ,she strung it along ,also knowing Evander is a very religious man,he could well have strong views on gay sex ,and she started the talk maybe to set him up, not my type of person

Why would she set him up If she thought it would offend the public and they are both facing eviction?

The house are under the impression they being evicted in pairs and that is why she was telling him to stop. I don't think she expected the answer he gave would be so homophobic.

[Jamesy]

Yes but its normal on TV or Forums


Fair point, can't disagree with you there. Although I do find "PC Britain" on TV very irritating. It gets to the point when shows like these aren't allowed to be natural. The constant warnings just make future contestants keep quiet and not express their views. I thought the who point of Big Brother is that it shows real people and different views.

..the thing I would say there though, Jamesy is that I personally know of youger Christians who are very good people in many ways but they do have specific views about homosexuality because of their religion, which they strongly belief..it isn't just an 'older' thing...

Oh yes, religion of course is a factor. I was speaking more generally of today's society, rather than accounting religion in my post.

I didn't realise Evander was religious (just had a quick look). Knowing that now I think it makes the 'warning' by Big Brother even more of a joke.

He wasn't warned. This misconception is annoying me now because the transcripts and clips are available for everyone to see.

He was merely reminded of the rules and that what he said could potentially be offensive to some viewers. It's the exact same conversation that his agent would have had with him if he could, because you can't say stuff like that on a national TV show in the UK. Not only do C5 have a brand to protect but it's social suicide, and hence such a reminder was to be expected and was also justified.

But he wasn't given any kind of official formal warning.

I just watched the clip again for clarification. While they did not air an 'official' warning as such - he was pretty much warned in effect. Big Brother may as well have said "don't air your own views on here if they are different to those of sensitive groups in the UK"... and then I lead back to my PC Britain comment further up.

I understand C5 are protecting their brand but if so why bother airing it in the first place? Other than getting an article in the Daily Mail it seems pretty pointless. If anything it's insulting religious people.

Being gay isn't a choice.

Being a Christian is.

I'm sure a few people could challenge you against that. Sometimes it can be a choice. Religion can be just as strong as sexuality too. Both are complex things, some people are born gay, some people are born believing in god. That makes neither a choice or forced upon you.

[Jordan.]

Why are people so opposed to him being warned? he deserved it for his homophobic comments.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

again thats no less offensive that what evander said.
total judgemental assumptions stereotyping billions of people.
yet stereotyping and insulting groups of people is something you preach about/
totla hypocrisy
maybe its you whos been brainwashed?

Not at all I choose to be Christian, I did not choose to be gay.

How could I be brainwashed into being a homo if it was my choice hetro life would have been far easier for me.

[the truth]

Why are people so opposed to him being warned? he deserved it for his homophobic comments.

I think daniels posts on this thread are far more discriminatory than anything evander said

[the truth]

Why would she set him up If she thought it would offend the public and they are both facing eviction?

The house are under the impression they being evicted in pairs and that is why she was telling him to stop. I don't think she expected the answer he gave would be so homophobic.

clearly youre naive to luissa
his answer wasnt homophobic. youre views however on here are discriminatory bordering on bigoted

[Niamh.]

clearly youre naive to luissa
his answer wasnt homophobic. youre views however on here are discriminatory bordering on bigoted

His answer was completely homophobic

[Jordan.]

clearly youre naive to luissa
his answer wasnt homophobic. youre views however on here are discriminatory bordering on bigoted

Saying being gay isn't normal and comparing it to a disablility is homophobic, and he was rightfully warned and exposed to the public :)

[daniel-lewis-1985]

As i pointed out last night ,sometimes being gay is a choice

I hope you don't mind me asking but are you gay?

Unless you are a homosexual then im sorry you cannot make a valid point as you do not know how it is to be gay.

We have feeling for the same sex as you would for the opposite and that's a powerful thing, its something that cannot be changed or forgotten about. You can pretend but it will allways be there.

[Scream]

imo Luisa didn't try to set him up...I genuinely thinks she really liked him until up to now. A lot of people wouldn't have even told him to stop tbh...they would of just let him. At the end of the day, whether she was being sneaky or not...she still didn't entirely leave him to fall, she said many times to stop.

[the truth]

Not at all I choose to be Christian, I did not choose to be gay.

How could I be brainwashed into being a homo if it was my choice hetro life would have been far easier for me.

you arent a Christian and you cant speak for all Christians just as you cant speak for all gay people. youre stereotyping people far far more than evander holyfield

[Rob!]

The thing is he didn't even actually get a formal warning for it - BB just warned him that his language could be offensive. Compared to some of the warnings that housemates have got in the past...

[Jamesy]

Not at all I choose to be Christian, I did not choose to be gay.

How could I be brainwashed into being a homo if it was my choice hetro life would have been far easier for me.

I think you're looking at it in a very two-dimensional way. Clearly your sexuality came very 'natural' to you - so maybe you cannot understand that for a lot of sexes who are interested in the same sex it can often be far more complex than 'knowing' you are gay.

[Jordan.]

I hope you don't mind me asking but are you gay?

Unless you are a homosexual then im sorry you cannot make a valid point as you do not know how it is to be gay.

We have feeling for the same sex as you would for the opposite and that's a powerful thing, its something that cannot be changed or forgotten about. You can pretend but it will allways be there.

This has already been said to them a million times all they can reply is "you can't speak for every gay person" or you're being heterophobic. It's not even worth bothering.

[chuff me dizzy]

I hope you don't mind me asking but are you gay?

Unless you are a homosexual then im sorry you cannot make a valid point as you do not know how it is to be gay.

We have feeling for the same sex as you would for the opposite and that's a powerful thing, its something that cannot be changed or forgotten about. You can pretend but it will allways be there.

You talk as if being gay is a burden ?

[Ammi]

[/I][/B]

If you haven't seen the last series of The Apprentice,you should check it out! She's very manipulative,and good at playing innocent when it suits,which is ideal for the murky world of big business,but she'll take a few Celebrities down in BB,if they don't know her game!?!:devil:

..hmm, I must admit that I only half paid attention to The Apprentice but I'll completely take your word about her 'manipulating skills..'..and that may be true in this case also..?...but it doesn't mean she's manipulative in every area of her life, so it could also just mean, she didn't quite know what to say or handle the situation correctly..?...

[MeMyselfAndI]

Luisa didn't string the conversation along, she tried too stop him from saying anything at all three times, as well as saying that they should have the conversation outside the house instead, she was very kind & actually tried saving Evander's popularity, rather than sit back & do nothing like most would have.

Also why else would Luisa want Evander too dig his grave when the celebrities were told they'd face eviction in their pairs, this further proves my earlier point of her trying too save Evander for either her own intentions too stay or too protect him, either way she is not at fault at all.

Jesus... some peoples lack of logic

[daniel-lewis-1985]

clearly youre naive to luissa
his answer wasnt homophobic. youre views however on here are discriminatory bordering on bigoted

His answers were homophobic.

Homophobia is an irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people and that's how he behaved. Calling someone wrong based on their sexuality is not acceptable and its a fact you can change you religion but you cannot change being gay.

Im gay and Christian so I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

You need to stop throwing insults, I am not a "bigot" my posts are based on both sides. Please read my original post.

[the truth]

Saying being gay isn't normal and comparing it to a disablility is homophobic, and he was rightfully warned and exposed to the public :)

he didnt compare it to a disability. youre taking his words out of context which is really disingenuous of you. he has the right to his opinions, just as you and others here have a right to hate Christians. However evander didnt stereotype every gay person on earth the way posters are here against Christians , nor did he say they are brainwashed the way poisters say here about millions of Christians. truth is you nor I nor anyone can speak for all gay people, all hetro people, or all Christians. every is different. why someone is hetro or homosexual or non sexual or bi sexual or even a paedophile , who knows? the whole issue is multi factorial. was I born hetrosexual , fancying big chested women ? was my mates born fancying or loving blonde women? men? I dont know. its definietly not as black and white as some posters here claim

was jimmy saville born a paedophile? if he was does that mean all paedophiles are born that way? I dont know. Im not so arrogant as some posters to claim to know the black and white answers to every persons sexuality on the planet

[the truth]

His answers were homophobic.

Homophobia is an irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people and that's how he behaved. Calling someone wrong based on their sexuality is not acceptable and its a fact you can change you religion but you cannot change being gay.

Im gay and Christian so I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

You need to stop throwing insults, I am not a "bigot" my posts are based on both sides. Please read my original post.

youre the one throwing insults , please refrain from more endless hypocrisy. Youre the one who labelled vast millions of Christians as brainwashed. youre the one who stereotypes gay people and Christians. who are you to judge how and why someone makes their sexual choices? theres billions of people , each of whom is an individual, they dont all think exactly like you, nor do they have to. Youre anti Christian words and stereotypes are far more discriminatory than anything evander said

[Seanbon]

Why would she set him up If she thought it would offend the public and they are both facing eviction?

The house are under the impression they being evicted in pairs and that is why she was telling him to stop. I don't think she expected the answer he gave would be so homophobic.

I'm guessing that she has done her homework,and knows fine well that they won't evict 2 people after only 3 days! Even if they did,she would come out smelling of roses? Why would you ask a heavyweight boxer "Are there many gay boxers?"? I'm guessing there are some,but they probably don't advertise the fact! It was such a loaded question,especially if he had mentioned his religious beliefs previously?!?

[daniel-lewis-1985]

you arent a Christian and you cant speak for all Christians just as you cant speak for all gay people. youre stereotyping people far far more than evander holyfield

Erm I am Christian? You don't know me.

[the truth]

Luisa didn't string the conversation along, she tried too stop him from saying anything at all three times, as well as saying that they should have the conversation outside the house instead, she was very kind & actually tried saving Evander's popularity, rather than sit back & do nothing like most would have.

Also why else would Luisa want Evander too dig his grave when the celebrities were told they'd face eviction in their pairs, this further proves my earlier point of her trying too save Evander for either her own intentions too stay or too protect him, either way she is not at fault at all.

Jesus... some peoples lack of logic

she made it appear that way for sure. easily done by a master manipulator. strange how no one else got evander into such a tricky situation. why even bring up such a controversial subject out of the blue like that? no doubt she was watching for the live camera the moment she spoke

[the truth]

Erm I am Christian? You don't know me.

and you dont know the billions of people youre stereotyping

[daniel-lewis-1985]

I think you're looking at it in a very two-dimensional way. Clearly your sexuality came very 'natural' to you - so maybe you cannot understand that for a lot of sexes who are interested in the same sex it can often be far more complex than 'knowing' you are gay.

Not at all.

I didn't want to be gay ive had several relationships with women but I met a guy and the penny dropped.

I have experienced both sides and know who truly who I am by doing so.

[Niamh.]

she made it appear that way for sure. easily done by a master manipulator. strange how no one else got evander into such a tricky situation. why even bring up such a controversial subject out of the blue like that? no doubt she was watching for the live camera the moment she spoke

Oh come on! Maybe she was looking for drama or whatever but that doesn't excuse what he said or make it her fault that he thinks that way. We're all responsible for ourselves and what we say

[the truth]

Oh come on! Maybe she was looking for drama or whatever but that doesn't excuse what he said or make it her fault that he thinks that way. We're all responsible for ourselves and what we say

we are , hes responsible and so is she for being a devious manipulative cow. i wish someone had warned him about her

[the truth]

Not at all.

I didn't want to be gay ive had several relationships with women but I met a guy and the penny dropped.

I have experienced both sides and know who truly who I am by doing so.

ok good for you, thats your experience. it doesnt mean everyone elses is exactly the same

[daniel-lewis-1985]

You talk as if being gay is a burden ?

It is when you choose to ignore it.

Anyway you just dodged my question so obviously you cannot give an opinion if you have never experienced it.

Its like me reviewing a song without ever even hearing it.

[MeMyselfAndI]

she made it appear that way for sure. easily done by a master manipulator. strange how no one else got evander into such a tricky situation. why even bring up such a controversial subject out of the blue like that? no doubt she was watching for the live camera the moment she spoke

Out of the blue? They talk 24/7 topics like this will come up, it was just a question asking if there was any gay boxers. I'd most likely ask that too Evander after a day of conversations running dry & being 1 on 1 all the time. It was a harmless question, it's not her fault he expanded on his answer after she told him too stop multiple times & even warned him its not suitable too have this conversation in the BB house with camera's

[Niamh.]

we are , hes responsible and so is she for being a devious manipulative cow. i wish someone had warned him about her

Someone "warning" him about her would not have made his views any less homophobic

[the truth]

It is when you choose to ignore it.

Anyway you just dodged my question so obviously you cannot give an opinion if you have never experienced it.

Its like me reviewing a song without ever even hearing it.

so no one is allowed an opinion on anything unless they do it themselves? so football fans cant discuss football? the public cant discuss politics? only news readers can discuss the news? funny how you dont want to be judged yet you judge other people whos lives you know almost nothing of, nor have you walked in their shoes....you even stereotype fellow Christiana and gay people which is what youre meant to be preaching agsint...utter hypocritical nonsense

[Jamesy]

Not at all.

I didn't want to be gay ive had several relationships with women but I met a guy and the penny dropped.

I have experienced both sides and know who truly who I am by doing so.

But you said earlier though you never chose to be gay. Implying that sexuality is not a choice. Which it is entirely a choice for many people.

Obviously I cannot make too strong of a judgement as I know nothing about you. But you seem to be contradicting your previous comments.

Either way. Sexuality is complex. There is no simple answer to it and it is different for every individual.

[Ammi]

It is when you choose to ignore it.

Anyway you just dodged my question so obviously you cannot give an opinion if you have never experienced it.

Its like me reviewing a song without ever even hearing it.


..I don't think that's true, Daniel..that you cannot give an opinion on something unless you have personally experienced it...the same could be said of anything really..say, for instance you could have an opinion of someone with bad parenting skills and maybe you're not a parent yourself but your opinion would be just as valid as anyone else's...but I would say that it's probably correct to say that you wouldn't have had the experience and that's something that people in general who have opinions should listen to...people who have 'lived' a particular experience..?..but even then, different experiences and views etc would probably differ....

[Seanbon]

This has already been said to them a million times all they can reply is "you can't speak for every gay person" or you're being heterophobic. It's not even worth bothering.

I was the person who said you were being heterophobic,in a lighthearted post,to try to diffuse the volatile situation last night! You said that "straight" people could never understand how gay people feel. I explained how I knew,and then you accused me of saying that gay people chose to be gay,which I didn't!! When I pointed out that I'm fully aware that most people are born gay,you chose to ignore me!?!:conf:

[the truth]

Someone "warning" him about her would not have made his views any less homophobic

she asked him but immediately interrupted him by saying out of the blue all the right cliches, its great to be gay etc she wwas clearly trying to provoke him and provoke a reaction. she also didnt allow him to explain himself properly. shes far more educated and knows big brother and PC britian inside out. she knew he was naive uneducated ineloquent and in a totlaly alien environment. so set him up for the fall, easily done. funny she doesnt ask him about his charity work or the foundations hes set up for disadvantaged kids? funny how she ignored him when he was discussing his career etc
shes toxic and will prove to be so over the next few weeks.....obviosuly she had no idea such a topic could become controversial? no never. shes not very bright is she?

[MeMyselfAndI]

Evander was very lucky he was talking too Luisa & no one else, anyone else would have wanted too know more of what Evander had too say, or argued causing him too spill more homophobic views that would have ruined his reputation. Instead Luisa just wanted too end the conversation & stop him from digging his own grave, if she had been staring at the camera's & wanting attention as you say, she would have argued against Evander forcefully showing the public, but instead she ended the conversation.

Truely a great girl, my opinion of her has risen massively

[MeMyselfAndI]

Evander was very lucky he was talking too Luisa & no one else, anyone else would have wanted too know more of what Evander had too say, or argued causing him too spill more homophobic views that would have ruined his reputation. Instead Luisa just wanted too end the conversation & stop him from digging his own grave, if she had been staring at the camera's & wanting attention as you say, she would have argued against Evander forcefully showing the public, but instead she ended the conversation.

Truely a great girl, my opinion of her has risen massively

[the truth]

But you said earlier though you never chose to be gay. Implying that sexuality is not a choice. Which is is entirely a choice for many people.

Obviously I cannot make too strong of a judgement as I know nothing about you. But you seem to be contradicting your previous comments.

Either way. Sexuality is complex. There is no simple answer to it and it is different for every individual.

hes contradicted himself all over the place. sexuality is very very complex and its not as black and white as the politically correct thought police are demanding it to be seen as.

[chuff me dizzy]

It is when you choose to ignore it.

Anyway you just dodged my question so obviously you cannot give an opinion if you have never experienced it.

Its like me reviewing a song without ever even hearing it.

I just dont get the "poor me" image you want to portray

[MeMyselfAndI]

she asked him but immediately interrupted him by saying out of the blue all the right cliches, its great to be gay etc she wwas clearly trying to provoke him and provoke a reaction. she also didnt allow him to explain himself properly. shes far more educated and knows big brother and PC britian inside out. she knew he was naive uneducated ineloquent and in a totlaly alien environment. so set him up for the fall, easily done. funny she doesnt ask him about his charity work or the foundations hes set up for disadvantaged kids? funny how she ignored him when he was discussing his career etc
shes toxic and will prove to be so over the next few weeks.....obviosuly she had no idea such a topic could become controversial? no never. shes not very bright is she?

How do you know she doesn't? do you have 24/7 live feed? :conf:
Yet again all she did was ask a question.
You need too stop with your misagynistic views.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

and you dont know the billions of people youre stereotyping

You told me I wasn't Christian lol. That's totally pathetic.

You have turned this thread into a total farce yet again throwing insults at forum members.

I am not a bigot I was siding with him when I said he was brought up in a very religious environment and that's effected his views on homosexuals. I did not call all Christians brainwashed bur religion can do that to a person and America is a very religious country. Its even illegal to be gay in some parts there still.

You can also choose to change your religion like for instance joining scientology or turning to choosing to join the muslim community which a lot of people do.

Some people can be brainwashed, we see it all the time Look at people who are brainwashed by the Taliban.

Just please tell me though how you know that I am not a Christian lol what a stupid thing to say.

Anyway what he said was homophobic that's fact, he has a right to his opinion and I respect that but what he said did offend me and I don't get offended often especially by a tv show.

I am not a prejudiced person which is a person that is racist,, sexist, homophobic, Hetrophobic, chauvinist, or an anti-Semite: Evander falls into that category im afraid. I am none of those things.

Can someone please post the transcript to prove the things hes said and get this over with.

[chuff me dizzy]

You told me I wasn't Christian lol. That's totally pathetic.

You have turned this thread into a total farce yet again throwing insults at forum members.

I am not a bigot I was siding with him when I said he was brought up in a very religious environment and that's effected his views on homosexuals. I did not call all Christians brainwashed bur religion can do that to a person and America is a very religious country. Its even illegal to be gay in some parts there still.

You can also choose to change your religion like for instance joining scientology or turning to choosing to join the muslim community which a lot of people do.

Some people can be brainwashed, we see it all the time Look at people who are brainwashed by the Taliban.

Just please tell me though how you know that I am not a Christian lol what a stupid thing to say.

Anyway what he said was homophobic that's fact, he has a right to his opinion and I respect that but what he said did offend me and I don't get offended often especially by a tv show.

Can someone please post the transcript to prove the things hes said and get this over with.

Daniel ,you opened this thread, but now you dont want people to voice their opinions ?

[the truth]

You told me I wasn't Christian lol. That's totally pathetic.

You have turned this thread into a total farce yet again throwing insults at forum members.

I am not a bigot I was siding with him when I said he was brought up in a very religious environment and that's effected his views on homosexuals. I did not call all Christians brainwashed bur religion can do that to a person and America is a very religious country. Its even illegal to be gay in some parts there still.

You can also choose to change your religion like for instance joining scientology or turning to choosing to join the muslim community which a lot of people do.

Some people can be brainwashed, we see it all the time Look at people who are brainwashed by the Taliban.

Just please tell me though how you know that I am not a Christian lol what a stupid thing to say.

Anyway what he said was homophobic that's fact, he has a right to his opinion and I respect that but what he said did offend me and I don't get offended often especially by a tv show.

I am not a prejudiced person which is a person that is racist,, sexist, homophobic, Hetrophobic, chauvinist, or an anti-Semite: Evander falls into that category im afraid. I am none of those things.

Can someone please post the transcript to prove the things hes said and get this over with.

It will never be over until you accept youre worng to label all Christians and all gay people exactly the same. that is stereotyping discrimination for which you wrongly accuse others of. its insane hypocrisy

[MeMyselfAndI]

Evander was very lucky he was talking too Luisa & no one else, anyone else would have wanted too know more of what Evander had too say, or argued causing him too spill more homophobic views that would have ruined his reputation. Instead Luisa just wanted too end the conversation & stop him from digging his own grave, if she had been staring at the camera's & wanting attention as you say, she would have argued against Evander forcefully showing the public, but instead she ended the conversation.

Truely a great girl, my opinion of her has risen massively

.

[Seanbon]

This has already been said to them a million times all they can reply is "you can't speak for every gay person" or you're being heterophobic. It's not even worth bothering.

This is the problem with this debate,it's "us" and "them",no middle ground at all!?! You're for us,or against us!!:nono: I agree with freedom of speech,but I am totally against homophobia,so I'm stuck in the middle. I then have to consider what was said,the context in which it was said,and whether it was intended to offend!?! Oh if only everything was black and white,not in a racist way?? :conf:

[daniel-lewis-1985]

so no one is allowed an opinion on anything unless they do it themselves? so football fans cant discuss football? the public cant discuss politics? only news readers can discuss the news? funny how you dont want to be judged yet you judge other people whos lives you know almost nothing of, nor have you walked in their shoes....you even stereotype fellow Christiana and gay people which is what youre meant to be preaching agsint...utter hypocritical nonsense

I didn't say that though did I. Why are so so extreme and twist people posts?

The public can discus ANYTHING but their opinion but if they are talking about something they have no knowledge of then their opinion is just void.

Oh and Football fans can obviously discuss it if they are fans lol im sorry I didn't know people were born football fans.

[the truth]

This is the problem with this debate,it's "us" and "them",no middle ground at all!?! You're for us,or against us!!:nono: I agree with freedom of speech,but I am totally against homophobia,so I'm stuck in the middle. I then have to consider what was said,the context in which it was said,and whether it was intended to offend!?! Oh if only everything was black and white,not in a racist way?? :conf:

are you also against discrimination against religious people and hetrosexual men? or do you just pick and choose what disrimination youre opposed to depending on your own agenda?

[anne666]

I wouldn't have expected anything else to come from his mouth on this subject. Ignorant, on so many levels and homophobic claptrap.
He's a product of his environment and not very bright. He's been raised and carried on following fundamentalist Bible terrorists and handed over a lot of cash for that privilege I presume. Ignore and carry on.........

[the truth]

I didn't say that though did I. Why are so so extreme and twist people posts?

The public can discus ANYTHING but their opinion but if they are talking about something they have no knowledge of then their opinion is just void.

Oh and Football fans can obviously discuss it if they are fans lol im sorry I didn't know people were born football fans.

goodness me youre tlaking out of your hat and embarassing yourself now. lol
so no one can discuss or form opinions on anything unless they do it themselves lol I guess the local firemen have to burn their houses down before joining the brigade...cops must take heroin before investigating drug ushers...detectives must commit murder mefore investigating it? lol Im embarassed for you. no wonder you choose to stereotype the whole world of Christians and homosexuals, your world view is the most narrow thing ive ever heard

[the truth]

I wouldn't have expected anything else to come from his mouth on this subject. Ignorant homophobic claptrap.
He's a product of his environment and not very bright. He's been raised and carried on following fundamentalist Bible terrorists and handed over a lot of cash for that privilege I presume. Ignore and carry on.........

thats a bigoted post trying to label millions of Christians as terrorists....total hypocrisy as you preach against discrimination and stereotyping groups of people

[daniel-lewis-1985]

[/QUOTE]Daniel ,you opened this thread, but now you dont want people to voice their opinions ?[/QUOTE]

I opened the thread to discuss the actual issue of what Evander had said in the house. My op was very un biased and then as usual certain forum members come in, throw insults and twist words.

Its just annoying that they cant act like adults.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=chuff me dizzy;6591671]

I opened the thread to discuss the actual issue of what Evander had said in the house. My op as very 2 sided and then as usual certain forum members come in, throw insults and twist words.

Its just annoying that they cant act like adults.

[anne666]

thats a bigoted post trying to label millions of Christians as terrorists....total hypocrisy as you preach against discrimination and stereotyping groups of people

I am never interested in anything you have to say. Learn to read and comprehend before attacking me with such exaggerated nonsense to suit your own agenda as usual.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

This is the problem with this debate,it's "us" and "them",no middle ground at all!?! You're for us,or against us!!:nono: I agree with freedom of speech,but I am totally against homophobia,so I'm stuck in the middle. I then have to consider what was said,the context in which it was said,and whether it was intended to offend!?! Oh if only everything was black and white,not in a racist way?? :conf:

But im not saying its us or them. I have said I agreed he should have a right to freedom of speech and I was interested in the conversation.

But I do think his comments were homophobic.

That's my opinion.

[MTVN]

He was a bit of a nob with it, fair enough if that's his view (even though it's pretty dumb) but Luisa realised early on that the conversation was going down a bit of a dodgy path and he kept forcing it even though she could see it wasn't a very appropriate thing for them to discuss, partly because of how wildly different their views were and partly because of it airing out to millions of people who were bound to find it offensive

[Seanbon]

are you also against discrimination against religious people and hetrosexual men? or do you just pick and choose what disrimination youre opposed to depending on your own agenda?

I'm against ALL discrimination,and I have no agenda!!:nono: This debate is about freedom of speech and homophobia?!?:conf:

[daniel-lewis-1985]

It will never be over until you accept youre worng to label all Christians and all gay people exactly the same. that is stereotyping discrimination for which you wrongly accuse others of. its insane hypocrisy

Trust me all gay people are not the same lol im talking about being gay though.

Also I am not accusing the entire Christian community as all the same lol I AM CHRISTIAN!!!

You are not reading my posts as you are responding way to quickly, you are glancing through, picking out certain things then twisting them.

Stop trolling and stop calling me a bigot.

I have shown that I believe he has a right to air his opinion and looked at it from both sides. You have obviously misread my OP.

Please go back and look at it again as its very unbiased and this thread was started that way until the insults started to get thrown again.

Same old, same old.

[Seanbon]

But im not saying its us or them. I have said I agreed he should have a right to freedom of speech and I was interested in the conversation.

But I do think his comments were homophobic.

That's my opinion.

That's fine! I was replying to a post by Jordan who came up with no point talking to "them"!?!

[Benjamin]

I stand by my point that I find his comment narrow minded, not homophobic.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

and I think your comments are bigotted , thats my opinion.

Yet another personal attack.

Just calm down you have serious aggression.

[Jezzy]

Labels, labels. Society loves them yet human beings are so much more complex than the narrow viewpoint that any label implies. Define a Christian. Define a homosexual. Yes, you can at a basic level by what those words represent, but people are individuals with their own beliefs.

What we need is not political correctness, not the forcing of views on others, it's tolerance. Learn to tolerate other people's differences whether or not you agree with them. Learn to accept there ARE differences. Realise that morality is controlled by society.

The world is already becoming too homogenised. Voltaire said it best 300 years ago:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Freedom of speech and thought applies to both sides of an argument and encompasses all viewpoints. Having said that, it was naive of Evander to air his beliefs on TV. It's a very tricky subject which has not been resolved in the whole of human history and I doubt it ever will be.

Hugs to Livia and Chuff ;)

[flamingGalah!]

Who's to say he is wrong though?If being gay is not a choice then who's to say that in the future it may not be changable if it's hormonal or psychological or both?His wording was clumsy comparing it to being handicapped as some people may be offended but people get offended by alot of different things.He offered his opinion on the subject,It's our choice to agree or disagree with it.

But saying it could be changable is saying that there is something wrong with being gay, as if it is an ailment that needs fixing! That is what is so very very wrong!

As i pointed out last night ,sometimes being gay is a choice

Chuff with deepest respect, that is absolute nonsense...

[starry]

If he'd confronted someone over it and started an argument or harrassed someone I'd understand the DR chat, but as it was it seemed an attempt by the producers to increase the ratings by generating controversy.

[sampvt]

Yet another personal attack.

Just calm down you have serious aggression.

Oh come on Daniel, stop playing the victim, you are just as bad when it suits. You keep telling me off for playing the victim, he is winding you up mate, you are big enough to deal with him using rhetoric, not tears.

[chuff me dizzy]

Labels, labels. Society loves them yet human beings are so much more complex than the narrow viewpoint that any label implies. Define a Christian. Define a homosexual. Yes, you can at a basic level by what those words represent, but people are individuals with their own beliefs.

What we need is not political correctness, not the forcing of views on others, it's tolerance. Learn to tolerate other people's differences whether or not you agree with them. Learn to accept there ARE differences. Realise that morality is controlled by society.

The world is already becoming too homogenised. Voltaire said it best 300 years ago:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Freedom of speech and thought applies to both sides of an argument and encompasses all viewpoints. Having said that, it was naive of Evander to air his beliefs on TV. It's a very tricky subject which has not been resolved in the whole of human history and I doubt it ever will be.

Hugs to Livia and Chuff ;)

Hugs to you too ,and totally agree with what you said above, no one can tell another person what they can say or think ,EVERYONE has a right to their opinions ,and a right to voice them ,if you dont agree walk away ,or in this case turn your Tv over

[Razor]

Who cares, that's his opinion and he is entitled to it even if others don't agree with him.

He is clearly wrong that being gay can be 'fixed' as he puts it and he comes across as though he doesn't know what he is talking about. Either way no one should be offended and if anything he should be laughed at for saying something so stupid.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Oh come on Daniel, stop playing the victim, you are just as bad when it suits. You keep telling me off for playing the victim, he is winding you up mate, you are big enough to deal with him using rhetoric, not tears.

Im not playing any victim but when someone (who shall not be name but is banned) is twisting words, talking ****e and throwing personal insults at myself and the other individuals then personally yeah I do feel victimised.

I made an unbiased thread and someone comes in shouting abuse, not just at me but others aswell.

It was just bollocks.

[Kizzy]

Labels, labels. Society loves them yet human beings are so much more complex than the narrow viewpoint that any label implies. Define a Christian. Define a homosexual. Yes, you can at a basic level by what those words represent, but people are individuals with their own beliefs.

What we need is not political correctness, not the forcing of views on others, it's tolerance. Learn to tolerate other people's differences whether or not you agree with them. Learn to accept there ARE differences. Realise that morality is controlled by society.

The world is already becoming too homogenised. Voltaire said it best 300 years ago:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Freedom of speech and thought applies to both sides of an argument and encompasses all viewpoints. Having said that, it was naive of Evander to air his beliefs on TV. It's a very tricky subject which has not been resolved in the whole of human history and I doubt it ever will be.

Hugs to Livia and Chuff ;)

This is refreshingly broad minded, there are cultural differences and a whole host of religious ones which have had a part to play here.
It's really apt on a show called 'big brother' to be hauled over coals by thought police though?

[chuff me dizzy]

But saying it could be changable is saying that there is something wrong with being gay, as if it is an ailment that needs fixing! That is what is so very very wrong!



Chuff with deepest respect, that is absolute nonsense...

I know people who have married, had children ,then they are gay ,not everyone is born gay

[Niamh.]

I know people who have married, had children ,then they are gay ,not everyone is born gay

That doesn't mean they weren't always gay though. Alot of people felt like they had to pretend they were straight so people would think they were normal and so they weren't disappointing/embarrassing their families. Just because a person is gay or straight doesn't mean they can't have gay or straight sex.

[Kizzy]

Labels, labels. Society loves them yet human beings are so much more complex than the narrow viewpoint that any label implies. Define a Christian. Define a homosexual. Yes, you can at a basic level by what those words represent, but people are individuals with their own beliefs.

What we need is not political correctness, not the forcing of views on others, it's tolerance. Learn to tolerate other people's differences whether or not you agree with them. Learn to accept there ARE differences. Realise that morality is controlled by society.

The world is already becoming too homogenised. Voltaire said it best 300 years ago:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Freedom of speech and thought applies to both sides of an argument and encompasses all viewpoints. Having said that, it was naive of Evander to air his beliefs on TV. It's a very tricky subject which has not been resolved in the whole of human history and I doubt it ever will be.

Hugs to Livia and Chuff ;)

This is refreshingly broad minded, there are cultural differences and a whole host of religious ones which have had a part to play here.
It's really apt on a show called 'big brother' to be hauled over coals by thought police though?

[chuff me dizzy]

That doesn't mean they weren't always gay though. Alot of people felt like they had to pretend they were straight so people would think they were normal and so they weren't disappointing/embarrassing their families. Just because a person is gay or straight doesn't mean they can't have gay or straight sex.

i doubt we will ever know ,i cannot talk for every hetrosexual in the world, any more than any gay person can speak for the gays of the world, I was just talking of things i knew about

[Niamh.]

i doubt we will ever know ,i cannot talk for every hetrosexual in the world, any more than any gay person can speak for the gays of the world, I was just talking of things i knew about

That's true but did that person actually say, I used to be straight but then I decided to turn gay?

[chuff me dizzy]

That's true but did that person actually say, I used to be straight but then I decided to turn gay?

I wasnt talking of one person individually ,as i said last night i know of 4 men 3 got married, but they all had children ,and not just one child in one case ,he had 4 ,he must have been slow at making his mind up :joker:

[Kizzy]

He was a bit of a nob with it, fair enough if that's his view (even though it's pretty dumb) but Luisa realised early on that the conversation was going down a bit of a dodgy path and he kept forcing it even though she could see it wasn't a very appropriate thing for them to discuss, partly because of how wildly different their views were and partly because of it airing out to millions of people who were bound to find it offensive

She brought it up because of his beliefs imo, the tone of her voice as she attempted to close the convo was accusatory too.
What I took from it was he suggested that in his opinion you weren't homosexual unless a 'practicing' one. It's an old fashioned view but not one I consider offensive.

[Jezzy]

That's true but did that person actually say, I used to be straight but then I decided to turn gay?

Niamh, I have known a couple of women who did exactly that after damaging heterosexual relationships.

The whole thing is massively complex and cannot be generalised at all imo.

[chuff me dizzy]

Niamh, I have known a couple of women who did exactly that after damaging heterosexual relationships.

The whole thing is massively complex and cannot be generalised at all imo.

Thats just what I was trying to get across :thumbs:

[Me. I Am Salman]

Even if that was true which it's not Evander was referring to the entire gay demographic

[Jezzy]

This is refreshingly broad minded, there are cultural differences and a whole host of religious ones which have had a part to play here.
It's really apt on a show called 'big brother' to be hauled over coals by thought police though?

You are absolutely right Kizzy. One would hope by now that people would realise that airing controversial opinions on such a show would inevitably lead to being hauled over the coals. And it's right to do so, and to question.

[Niamh.]

Niamh, I have known a couple of women who did exactly that after damaging heterosexual relationships.

The whole thing is massively complex and cannot be generalised at all imo.

They must have had atleast bisexual tendencies beforehand though, surely? I mean if I was that damaged by a man, I'd go celibate rather than sleep with a woman tbh

[chuff me dizzy]

They must have had atleast bisexual tendencies beforehand though, surely? I mean if I was that damaged by a man, I'd go celibate rather than sleep with a woman tbh

Yes me too,but not everyones the same

[Jezzy]

They must have had atleast bisexual tendencies beforehand though, surely? I mean if I was that damaged by a man, I'd go celibate rather than sleep with a woman tbh

I guess it depends on how you get your comfort...for some people it's close physical contact, hugging, the knowledge that someone will be there for them....sex is just a natural progression from feelings of love and security? Going celibate also implies a life lived in coldness tbh, most people need someone to share their lives with, showing physical appreciation isn't such a bad thing.

[Niamh.]

I guess it depends on how you get your comfort...for some people it's close physical contact, hugging, the knowledge that someone will be there for them....sex is just a natural progression from feelings of love and security? Going celibate also implies a life lived in coldness tbh, most people need someone to share their lives with, showing physical appreciation isn't such a bad thing.

Interesting point of view, not sure I agree with it completely but I take your points

[Jezzy]

I just don't think who you have sex with is a defining characteristic of who you are, let alone having to stick a label on it. My boyfriend is 18 years younger than me, we have been together 7 years, go figure.

You fall in love with a person rather than their gender, no? It's only constraints from what you are taught to believe by society that makes you question whether or not it is right.

That's my viewpoint - there are a lot more controversial viewpoints out there, but that's why we are all different, and that's why we should all embrace the mixture of souls in this world.

I was baptised a catholic. I am adopted, my roots are Spanish / Arab. My parents brought me up to be a freethinker. There is a lot that should be embraced about religion and religious beliefs. I do not believe Jesus Christ was the son of God. Sons of God belong in the Greek Myths for me. I believe in reincarnation, I believe in different levels of different types of existence. There is not a religion that encompasses my beliefs, yet I am a very religious / spiritual person.

I think all I am trying to say is that the big things in life don't fit neatly into boxes. The media may tell you that they should, but they don't. Tolerance and acceptance, those are my words to live by, no matter how greatly I may disagree.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

I know people who have married, had children ,then they are gay ,not everyone is born gay

Oh my god how old are you?!

That's not them suddenly turning gay that's them living in denial for years because they don't want to be gay.

Anyway to all those who said he didn't compare gay people to being handicapped then this video of the whole convo will shut you up.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/05/evander-holyfield-doctors-can-fix-homosexuality-celebrity-big-brother/#ixzz2pdNBbuPY

[Niamh.]

I just don't think who you have sex with is a defining characteristic of who you are, let alone having to stick a label on it. My boyfriend is 18 years younger than me, we have been together 7 years, go figure.

You fall in love with a person rather than their gender, no? It's only constraints from what you are taught to believe by society that makes you question whether or not it is right.

That's my viewpoint - there are a lot more controversial viewpoints out there, but that's why we are all different, and that's why we should all embrace the mixture of souls in this world.

I was baptised a catholic. I am adopted, my roots are Spanish / Arab. My parents brought me up to be a freethinker. There is a lot that should be embraced about religion and religious beliefs. I do not believe Jesus Christ was the son of God. Sons of God belong in the Greek Myths for me. I believe in reincarnation, I believe in different levels of different types of existence. There is not a religion that encompasses my beliefs, yet I am a very religious / spiritual person.

I think all I am trying to say is that the big things in life don't fit neatly into boxes. The media may tell you that they should, but they don't. Tolerance and acceptance, those are my words to live by, no matter how greatly I may disagree.


hhhmmm I don't know about that, well from my own point of view, sexually I don't think I could ever fall in love in the romantic/sexual sense with a women, the actual act of sex with another woman is a bit repulsive to me, I couldn't imagine ever feeling any different about that, I have never physically found a woman attractive, sure i can appreciate a good looking woman but I've never thought wow I'd love a bit of that or whatever :laugh: And I do think most people are either attracted to one or the other gender

But again, I do accept your points and that not everyone thinks the same way as I do

[Jezzy]

Oh my god how old are you?!

That's not them suddenly turning gay that's them living in denial for years because they don't want to be gay.

Anyway to all those who said he didn't compare gay people to being handicapped then this video of the whole convo will shut you up.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/05/evander-holyfield-doctors-can-fix-homosexuality-celebrity-big-brother/#ixzz2pdNBbuPY

Just putting the question out there, Daniel - how can you know for sure that there are not people out there who DO change their minds about their sexuality later in life? Just because you have pretty much always known, doesn't make someone else's experience different.

[chuff me dizzy]

Oh my god how old are you?!

That's not them suddenly turning gay that's them living in denial for years because they don't want to be gay.

Anyway to all those who said he didn't compare gay people to being handicapped then this video of the whole convo will shut you up.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/05/evander-holyfield-doctors-can-fix-homosexuality-celebrity-big-brother/#ixzz2pdNBbuPY

You dont know that ,you cannot speak for every gay person as much as I cannot speak for all straight people, I am giving you facts of people i know

[Apple202]

why is "it's just their opinion" seemingly only valid when it's to do with homophobia or trans-phobia? if someone was racist or sexist they'd be shouted down, no question about their invalid, ignorant "opinion"

[Jezzy]

My daughter's a redhead. Why is it ok for ginger jokes and ginger beating? Nobody out there protecting ginges....

[Apple202]

^are you serious? :laugh3:

[sampvt]

why is "it's just their opinion" seemingly only valid when it's to do with homophobia or trans-phobia? if someone was racist or sexist they'd be shouted down, no question about their invalid, ignorant "opinion"

Maybe society prioritises racism and sexism as important but deem gayism or whatever label you want hang on it, as not that important unless you are gay and suffer from a severe hatred of people that promote homophobic issues. Sadly most homophobic issues can and are interpreted differently depending on your beliefs. My son is gay and he calls his partner head ****, If I did that I would be locked up. What I don't understand is the level of expressionism certain gays have against the smallest of things these days.

[Jezzy]

^are you serious? :laugh3:

Why?

Isn't it just as random to pick on someone for who they sleep with? What's it got to do with you?

[Apple202]

I don't think anyone has an actual problem with gingers that extends beyond primary school, so if you could not compare it to homophobia that would be fab :thumbs:

[Apple202]

Maybe society prioritises racism and sexism as important but deem gayism or whatever label you want hang on it, as not that important unless you are gay and suffer from a severe hatred of people that promote homophobic issues. Sadly most homophobic issues can and are interpreted differently depending on your beliefs. My son is gay and he calls his partner head ****, If I did that I would be locked up. What I don't understand is the level of expressionism certain gays have against the smallest of things these days.

I'm not wasting my breath on you

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c4e49387aacd13212bee6d39dbd84964/tumblr_mnhln5Qy1c1qfy2kdo3_r1_250.gif

[Jesus.]

Only a ginger, can call another ginger, ginger.

[Jezzy]

I don't think anyone has an actual problem with gingers that extends beyond primary school, so if you could not compare it to homophobia that would be fab :thumbs:

You would be wrong. In any case, primary school years are formative, they teach you about hatred and isolation. So gingers get it at primary school, so other "minorities"? get it in later life. Who is more equipped to deal with it, and why is any form of prejudice different to any other?

[Jezzy]

Only a ginger, can call another ginger, ginger.

I suspect you enjoy watching Tim Minchin :)

[Jesus.]

I don't think it's even fair to compare gingers and gay people. I think you can compare gingers with fat people from a societal point of view, but no one has tried to prevent gingers from marrying each other. Although the ginger gene should have to be declared before coitus. Just. In. Case.

[Jesus.]

I suspect you enjoy watching Tim Minchin :)

Just like only a ninja, can sneak up on another ninja.

[Kazanne]

My daughter's a redhead. Why is it ok for ginger jokes and ginger beating? Nobody out there protecting ginges....

I agree actually, people seem to be selective in what they find offensive how many people have called people fatty,ginger,four eyes,****** etc is that not also offensive? but all that seems ok,lol .

[Jezzy]

It'll be the first time in my life I've said it, but Jesus, I think I love you.

[Jesus.]

It'll be the first time in my life I've said it, but Jesus, I think I love you.

Well if it's any consolation, I never tire of hearing it!

[courses]

You would be wrong. In any case, primary school years are formative, they teach you about hatred and isolation. So gingers get it at primary school, so other "minorities"? get it in later life. Who is more equipped to deal with it, and why is any form of prejudice different to any other?

I still get nasty comments occasionally, and I'm well past primary school. I agree I think the point of comparing gingerism(?) to homophobia is to show how ridiculous it is to hate someone for something so arbitrary and out of their control.

[Seanbon]

This is refreshingly broad minded, there are cultural differences and a whole host of religious ones which have had a part to play here.
It's really apt on a show called 'big brother' to be hauled over coals by thought police though?

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

[Jezzy]

I still get nasty comments occasionally, and I'm well past primary school. I agree I think the point of comparing gingerism(?) to homophobia is to show how ridiculous it is to hate someone for something so arbitrary and out of their control.

Exactly that. Thank you courses :)

[Jezzy]

Well if it's any consolation, I never tire of hearing it!

Oh Jesus, don't you ever get tired of the overwhelming love?

[courses]

Exactly that. Thank you courses :)

Welcome. I must say I'm sad to have come on here and see such a heated debate, I assumed that everyone would agree that Evander's views are ridiculous and not try to defend him.

[Josiah.]

Okay, I really am offended by some of the comments. Please stop arguing before I bring Josy in to close this thread.

[flamingGalah!]

I know people who have married, had children ,then they are gay ,not everyone is born gay

Chuff this is something that happened a lot quite a few years back, when being gay was not only not accepted by most of society but gay sex was illegal. It is not surprising that so many men married & even had children even though they were gay, they were simply living a lie. They did not suddenly wake up one morning & either decide they wanted to be gay or suddenly had an urge for cock!

People ARE born gay, it is not a choice. Did you choose to be straight? Could you decide tomorrow that you fancy a bit of muff Chuff?!? :joker:

[Jezzy]

Josiah, you are a mere prophet. The only person that can close this thread is Jesus (or maybe his daddy)

[Jack_]

Okay, I really am offended by some of the comments. Please stop arguing before I bring Josy in to close this thread.

lol what

[Jesus.]

People still don't hate gingers though - it is stupid, but there is a huge difference between our racial and homophobic past, and some stupid, yet non-malicious mockery.

I suppose I can say that though, because one of my best friends is a ginger.

[flamingGalah!]

You dont know that ,you cannot speak for every gay person as much as I cannot speak for all straight people, I am giving you facts of people i know

I suggest you ask them then Chuff. Ask if they married for fear of being found out as gay, or if they suddenly had the urge one day for a gobble on a sausage... :thumbs:

[Seanbon]

Only a ginger, can call another ginger, ginger.

:thumbs: And belated Happy Birthday!!:xyxwave:

[Jezzy]

People still don't hate gingers though - it is stupid, but there is a huge difference between our racial and homophobic past, and some stupid, yet non-malicious mockery.

I suppose I can say that though, because one of my best friends is a ginger.

Either way....and the importance is defined by society, no matter whether it's gay, black, ginger, speccy four eyes....it's still an irrational hatred. And it's not non-violent either. My daughter was beaten up for being ginger, to the extent she dyed her hair for years.

[courses]

People still don't hate gingers though - it is stupid, but there is a huge difference between our racial and homophobic past, and some stupid, yet non-malicious mockery.

I suppose I can say that though, because one of my best friends is a ginger.

I can assure you I have received a lot of hate and mockery ain't that fun. I understand the distinction you're making between homophobia's past and gingerism's(?) past, but the point was simply to show how silly the whole prejudice thing is. We're all human beings after all.

[starry]

She brought it up because of his beliefs imo, the tone of her voice as she attempted to close the convo was accusatory too.
What I took from it was he suggested that in his opinion you weren't homosexual unless a 'practicing' one. It's an old fashioned view but not one I consider offensive.

Yeh I thought Luisa made a big thing of it, strange really considering they could be up together. And she pushed the whole topic of whether there were gays in boxing in the first place anyway. Evander seemed to say there were but he didn't care they were all ok with it. Then Luisa said they should speak out that they were gay.

[Jezzy]

I can assure you I have received a lot of hate and mockery ain't that fun. I understand the distinction you're making between homophobia's past and gingerism's(?) past, but the point was simply to show how silly the whole prejudice thing is. We're all human beings after all.

And we are all wonderful, unique human beings. We just have to learn not to be indoctrinated.

[Niamh.]

People still don't hate gingers though - it is stupid, but there is a huge difference between our racial and homophobic past, and some stupid, yet non-malicious mockery.

I suppose I can say that though, because one of my best friends is a ginger.

:laugh2:

[Jesus.]

Either way....and the importance is defined by society, no matter whether it's gay, black, ginger, speccy four eyes....it's still an irrational hatred.

I don't even think it's a hatred, and that's why it's simply not comparable in my eyes.

I am a carrier of the ginger gene myself, so I may well have ginger children some day, and I may well see things differently in that instance. I wouldn't change my view on the severity of the issues being compared.

[Niamh.]

You English seem to be more ginger haters than the rest of the world though, no one ever got picked on when i was in school for being ginger

[Jezzy]

You English seem to be more ginger haters than the rest of the world though, no one ever got picked on when i was in school for being ginger

Haha, love you Niamh...I should have moved to Scotland or Ireland immediately I had her :P

[Niamh.]

Haha, love you Niamh...I should have moved to Scotland or Ireland immediately I had her :P

lol you should have done, her gingerness would have been embrassed and celebrated :laugh:

[Tom4784]

The difference between ginger people and gay people is that ginger people, unless they're gay, has the same rights as everyone else while gay people don't. Also I haven't seen anyone bully someone else for the colour of their hair since primary school, Homophobia is present in all walks of life.

You can't compare the two.

[Jezzy]

The difference between ginger people and gay people is that ginger people, unless they're gay, has the same rights as everyone else while gay people don't. Also I haven't seen anyone bully someone else for the colour of their hair since primary school, Homophobia is present in all walks of life.

You can't compare the two.

Irrational hatred for someone's differences. You guys need to get off with the primary school thing, it goes on a lot longer than that. You just haven't experienced it.

Ginger people smell, ginger people are violent, ginger people are below the rung. That's how my daughter has experienced it.

[Jesus.]

I can assure you I have received a lot of hate and mockery ain't that fun. I understand the distinction you're making between homophobia's past and gingerism's(?) past, but the point was simply to show how silly the whole prejudice thing is. We're all human beings after all.

I don't think anyone said that either hate or mockery was particularly fun. I completely agree with you that prejudice is silly, but I don't believe childish mockery of ginger people is actually prejudice.

Ginger people have never been enslaved, they have never had basic human rights stripped away from them, they have never been made to wear a star of David, they have never been sent to prison, they have never been abused and mentally tortured by church doctrine for centuries either.

That's the difference. What ginger people have to go through in school is the same as fat people. That doesn't make it right, but it's a completely different scenario to having your human rights stripped away.

[chuff me dizzy]

Chuff this is something that happened a lot quite a few years back, when being gay was not only not accepted by most of society but gay sex was illegal. It is not surprising that so many men married & even had children even though they were gay, they were simply living a lie. They did not suddenly wake up one morning & either decide they wanted to be gay or suddenly had an urge for cock!

People ARE born gay, it is not a choice. Did you choose to be straight? Could you decide tomorrow that you fancy a bit of muff Chuff?!? :joker:

Thanks for the offer Galah ,Im flattered but no thanks :wink::kiss:

[chuff me dizzy]

Okay, I really am offended by some of the comments. Please stop arguing before I bring Josy in to close this thread.

OOOOOOOOO Get her !!

[chuff me dizzy]

The difference between ginger people and gay people is that ginger people, unless they're gay, has the same rights as everyone else while gay people don't. Also I haven't seen anyone bully someone else for the colour of their hair since primary school, Homophobia is present in all walks of life.

You can't compare the two.

What rights are gay people lacking in ?

[Jezzy]

I don't think anyone said that either hate or mockery was particularly fun. I completely agree with you that prejudice is silly, but I don't believe childish mockery of ginger people is actually prejudice.

Ginger people have never been enslaved, they have never had basic human rights stripped away from them, they have never been made to wear a star of David, they have never been sent to prison, they have never been abused and mentally tortured by church doctrine for centuries either.

That's the difference. What ginger people have to go through in school is the same as fat people. That doesn't make it right, but it's a completely different scenario to having your human rights stripped away.

I get you completely on the human rights point, but surely that is only because these have become big political issues. Does that make any "lesser" hatreds any less? And you, Jesus, being a Jew, as you are....the whole discussion should be about societal constructs, and not is what is "right" and what is "wrong". All prejudicial hatred is wrong.

[Jezzy]

What rights are gay people lacking in ?

Hoo-*********g rah.

[Jesus.]

I get you completely on the human rights point, but surely that is only because these have become big political issues. Does that make any "lesser" hatreds any less? And you, Jesus, being a Jew, as you are....the whole discussion should be about societal constructs, and not is what is "right" and what is "wrong". All prejudicial hatred is wrong.

Well I don't believe that what ginger people suffer is actually hatred at all, so for me it still remains a different discussion.

If the topic was "Is it time to leave our mockery of da gingers behind us", then I'd probably agree that we should, but comparing the plight of true civil rights struggles with the absolutely non-discriminated against ginger people, then I just don't see where you're coming from.

[Jezzy]

Why is it any different? Please, do explain to me, why hating gays is any different to hating fatties or gingers. When my daughter is beaten for being ginger, I can't see the difference.

I don't hate anyone except ignorants :P

[Tom4784]

Irrational hatred for someone's differences. You guys need to get off with the primary school thing, it goes on a lot longer than that. You just haven't experienced it.

Ginger people smell, ginger people are violent, ginger people are below the rung. That's how my daughter has experienced it.

It's an insult to compare the two, If I saw an adult mocking someone else for having ginger hair I'd think them too ridiculous to take it seriously. It's just not in the same league. I got a lot of jibes at school because I wore glasses but I wouldn't compare childish remarks to homophobia.

Like I said before, which you conveniently ignored because you probably had no argument against it, your daughter regardless of her hair colour will never face anything close to the same struggles a gay person would because ginger people aren't treated like second class citizens by their own government. Being Ginger has never been persecuted by law. Being Ginger doesn't mean you can't marry someone else, Adoption isn't made any more difficult because you're ginger ETC.

Just look at all the different countries in the world that don't have equal rights for gay people, how many countries do you think persecute people for having ginger hair?

[Z]

Why is it any different? Please, do explain to me, why hating gays is any different to hating fatties or gingers. When my daughter is beaten for being ginger, I can't see the difference.

I don't hate anyone except ignorants :P

I completely get the point you're making and it's valid in many ways but the difference is that you're not refused to right to get married or start a family if you're ginger, you aren't jailed for being ginger or having your rights taken away from you for being ginger (which is happening in many countries around the world)... children want to belong and make fun of those who are noticeably different in order to validate their fitting in with the rest. That's why camp kids, ginger kids, fat kids, kids with glasses... all get picked on. People get picked on for a variety of reasons and it can affect their adult life significantly if the bullying was prolonged... but inherently, society isn't against being ginger or needing glasses because people recognise that those are things that people cannot help, they are born with ginger hair; their eyesight is out of their control... people are not so forgiving with weight problems because you can control your weight; but blame will often be spread between an individual, their parents (if we're still talking about children), personal circumstances (e.g. he's put on weight because he's grieving, something like that)... but there are no such defenses for homosexuality in our society. Some people believe that homosexuality is a choice. Some people believe homosexuality is immoral. That is the difference.

[Jesus.]

Why is it any different? Please, do explain to me, why hating gays is any different to hating fatties or gingers. When my daughter is beaten for being ginger, I can't see the difference.

I don't hate anyone except ignorants :P

Because people don't hate gingers or fatties. I can't comment on your daughters situation because it would be wrong of me, and it's your life, but I've never heard of anyone ever being beaten for being ginger. I just haven't.

It's not something that even begins to make sense to me.

[Jezzy]

It's an insult to compare the two, If I saw an adult mocking someone else for having ginger hair I'd think them too ridiculous to take it seriously. It's just not in the same league. I got a lot of jibes at school because I wore glasses but I wouldn't compare childish remarks to homophobia.

Like I said before, which you conveniently ignored because you probably had no argument against it, your daughter regardless of her hair colour will never face anything close to the same struggles a gay person would because ginger people aren't treated like second class citizens by their own government. Being Ginger has never been persecuted by law. Being Ginger doesn't mean you can't marry someone else, Adoption isn't made any more difficult because you're ginger ETC.

Just look at all the different countries in the world that don't have equal rights for gay people, how many countries do you think persecute people for having ginger hair?

I'm not conveniently ignoring anything, I am just trying to show the arbitrary nature of prejudice. Prejudice happens because of the mores of society. In ancient Greek and Persian times (I am a Classicist) homosexuality was the norm, and in warriors, celebrated. Amongst the Spartans you were not classed as a warrior unless you *********d men.

What I AM trying to say is that social mores are dictated by the climate of society you live in. A hundred years ago, and in a different place, it would be the norm. Who can judge a norm?

Just because there are a lot of people stirring up what is right and wrong does not make their cause any more real or important. Why are Taliban beliefs wrong? Because you have been brought up in a secular society. So have I. I am not saying they are right.

Why would you feel that ginges or speccys or goths (recent goth hate killing) don't have the same right to any protections that gays have? As always, just curious.

[Jezzy]

Because people don't hate gingers or fatties. I can't comment on your daughters situation because it would be wrong of me, and it's your life, but I've never heard of anyone ever being beaten for being ginger. I just haven't.

It's not something that even begins to make sense to me.

My daughter *was* beaten for being ginger.

[Jezzy]

Tell you what, just because I am in argumentative mood, let's try this:

You ARE discriminated upon by councils for adoption taking age / weight / smoking preferences into account.

[Z]

Tell you what, just because I am in argumentative mood, let's try this:

You ARE discriminated upon by councils for adoption taking age / weight / smoking preferences into account.

Probably? What's the point you're trying to make? People will discriminate against others for things they believe that another person has chosen to do which does not sit well with their own personal choices. Non-smokers judging smokers to be unfit parents; homophobic non-homosexuals judging homosexuals to be unfit parents - you wouldn't get that if you were ginger or had glasses or freckles or were 6'5" or 5'0" or had curly hair.............

[Jezzy]

Probably? What's the point you're trying to make? People will discriminate against others for things they believe that another person has chosen to do which does not sit well with their own personal choices. Non-smokers judging smokers to be unfit parents; homophobic non-homosexuals judging homosexuals to be unfit parents - you wouldn't get that if you were ginger or had glasses or freckles or were 6'5" or 5'0" or had curly hair.............

The point I am trying to make is that people will use prejudice to their own ends. And who can judge which prejudice is worse than another?

[Glenn.]

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b614/GlennG88/facepalm-png_zps67a4ef44.png
@ some of the comments in this thread

[Jesus.]

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b614/GlennG88/facepalm-png_zps67a4ef44.png
@ some of the comments in this thread

Shut your mouth, you big ginger gay!

[Glenn.]

I wish I was a big ginger gay

[Jezzy]

Shut your mouth, you big ginger gay!

I am actually coming around to Christianity.

[Z]

The point I am trying to make is that people will use prejudice to their own ends. And who can judge which prejudice is worse than another?

I agree with that. I would say that people will judge certain prejudices to be worse than others by virtue of how institutionalised they are - sexism, racism, homophobia will be considered by our society to be more of a problem than comments about weight, height or appearance because laws and religious teachings don't discriminate against people for their weight/height/appearance as they sometimes do against people for their gender/race/sexual orientation. But as you said (I can't remember your exact words) in another post, what's one generation's norm is another generation's problem, or another generation's yesterday's news.

[Jezzy]

I agree with that. I would say that people will judge certain prejudices to be worse than others by virtue of how institutionalised they are - sexism, racism, homophobia will be considered by our society to be more of a problem than comments about weight, height or appearance because laws and religious teachings don't discriminate against people for their weight/height/appearance as they sometimes do against people for their gender/race/sexual orientation. But as you said (I can't remember your exact words) in another post, what's one generation's norm is another generation's problem, or another generation's yesterday's news.

We do agree. I honestly don't understand why some prejudices should be worse than others. I hate everyone equally ;)

[Kazanne]

Surely it boils down to some people do not like gay people,some people do not like black people/white people,fat people,ginger people,all sorts of people,I don't think we will ever change that sadly.

[Bluerang1]

This is offensive and comparing race to sexuality isn't? I'm glad I don't live in the UK anymore. USA!

[daniel-lewis-1985]

What rights are gay people lacking in ?

This is what I meant when I said you have no knowledge of the gay community Evander was talking about therefore a very handsome gay man like myself finds it hard to take you seriously.

Some examples for you

- same-sex marriage will come into effect in England and Wales in mid-2014 ITS STILL NOT LEGAL ()

-Gay people were not allowed to apply for adopting a child until 2001 meaning the government thought a child being brought up by a gay couple would be worse than putting a child into care or foster homes

-I think it wasn't until roughly 2000 that gay people were allowed to serve in the military openly people like you and Evander don't understand the struggles gay people do actually face and how much they have had to fight to get the same right

This is why the Evander comments were met with such outrage.

Its only in the last 15 years or so that gay couples have finally been recognised as in love and have had their relationships recognised by a country that they love.

God I sound so gay but its true lol.

There are many gay conversion camps though that he would love us to attend aka cults! How does singing in a forest make you straight? If anything it just makes you feel like Bambi.

[Jezzy]

This is offensive and comparing race to sexuality isn't? I'm glad I don't live in the UK anymore. USA!

Yeah, the US is so much more tolerant. How are any prejudices more important than others? Please, if you can, tell me why one prejudice is any worse then another. Take out what social pressures have errrr pressured, and tell me why it is any more acceptable to salute an anti-prejudice pressure group than any other. Numbers? Does that make it right?

[Bluerang1]

Yeah, the US is so much more tolerant. How are any prejudices more important than others? Please, if you can, tell me why one prejudice is any worse then another. Take out what social pressures have errrr pressured, and tell me why it is any more acceptable to salute an anti-prejudice pressure group than any other. Numbers? Does that make it right?

OMG are you actually being serious? Gay people can walk anywhere and people don't notice their sexuality but when you are of a certain race that is noticed. Of course being racist is far worse because you're judging someone based on a physical trait and shouldn't even be considered. Like Chuff said, gays aren't never lacked in any rights really except for having families which isn't even a big deal. Talk to me when they've been enslaved, denied the right to vote, et cetera. Ignorant please.

[Jezzy]

This is what I meant by commenting on a thread without any knowledge of the community Evander was talking about.

Ok so...

- same-sex marriage will come into effect in England and Wales in mid-2014 ()

Gay people were not allowed to apply for adopting a child until 2001 meaning the government thought a child being brought up by a gay couple would be worse than putting a child into care or foster homes l

I think it wasn't until roughly 2000 that gay people were allowed to serve in the military openly people like you and Evander don't understand the struggles gay people do actually face and how much they have had to fight to get the same right

This is why the Evander comments were met with such outrage.

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

[Jezzy]

And BlueRang I do agree with you in that race is something immediately apparent. Try looking Arab when you fly post-2001.

[chuff me dizzy]

Surely it boils down to some people do not like gay people,some people do not like black people/white people,fat people,ginger people,all sorts of people,I don't think we will ever change that sadly.

You cannot change how people think ,and the more you tell people they MUST love this ,that and the other,the more they rebel

[Apple202]

OMG are you actually being serious? Gay people can walk anywhere and people don't notice their sexuality but when you are of a certain race that is noticed. Of course being racist is far worse because you're judging someone based on a physical trait and shouldn't even be considered. Like Chuff said, gays aren't never lacked in any rights really except for having families which isn't even a big deal. Talk to me when they've been enslaved, denied the right to vote, et cetera. Ignorant please.

none of which occurs now so bye

[Apple202]

This is offensive and comparing race to sexuality isn't? I'm glad I don't live in the UK anymore. USA!

lol please, sorry for valuing civil rights more than the ability to shoot all our neighbours :xyxwave:

[daniel-lewis-1985]

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

They cant MARRY us its not legal.

The Bible says "Maybe there should just be another word?" that's hilarious. You say im only talking 13 years ago but that's the thing its ONLY 13 YEARS. That's such a long time for gay people to get any positive recognition for the country they live in and some that fight for in the armed forces.

If I wanted to marry my boyfriend tomorrow I couldn't because its illegal for me to do so. Is that right?

If you don't know the difference between a marriage and a civil partnership I will refer you to google.

[joeysteele]

[B][I]

If he has been raised in a fundamental Christian family/church,this belief has probably been preached to him as a fact! To him it is a fact,no matter how abhorrent it is to the you or I?!?
His understanding of BB is debatable too! I don't think he realises that every conversation is picked up and/or broadcast!?!

I was raised in a Catholic family, the Catholic church had one of the most ridiculous stances as to being gay.

Namely that they hate the sin but love the sinner. such nonsense didn't influence me and the more people that were gay that I got to know showed me how daft that idea and ruling of the church is.
It is now at long last making some overtones as to the issue but still has a massive way to go to be credible as to it.

However religion aside, whatever his religion is,Evander is not a young man, I am only 21,it is for me at any rate, not acceptable to hear someone of such so called maturity spouting out such harmful, wrong and to many offensive opinionated garbage.

He will also well know that there are cameras on the go 24/7 in the house too. I cannot see how he couldn't possibly be aware of that fact.

[Z]

You are talking 13 years ago. Why is marriage any different than a civil partnership? I honestly do want to know this. Marriage as a word definition, as gay is, is not something that encompasses same sex unions. Many priests / vicars will happily marry gay couples within the church. Why can there not be a different word for it? Yes, make your union permanent and blessed. Does it make a difference what word you call it by? Let's do Romeo and Juliet : "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's not marriage. The bible says marriage is a union between man and woman. It doesn't say a gay union is wrong, just that maybe there should be another word?

I think civil partnerships don't cover certain legal issues that marriage does, like if one partner dies, the civil partner's rights regarding their partner in the event of death etc, not really too sure on the specifics though!

[Jezzy]

They cant MARRY us its not legal.

The Bible says "Maybe there should just be another word?" that's hilarious. You say im only talking 13 years ago but that's the thing its ONLY 13 YEARS. That's such a long time for gay people to get any positive recognition for the country they live in and some that fight for in the armed forces.

If you don't know the difference between a marriage and a civil partnership I will refer you to google.

I do know the difference, thanks, I'm a lawyer. I'm not even talking about recognition. I'm also an ex-soldier, so I also know about gays in the military. All I'm saying is that the word marriage applies to one set of circumstances. What's the problem with having a different word with the same rights to reflect a different sexuality?

[Jezzy]

I' sure it's both weird and difficult. But I'm sure at the same time that through someone's sexual development, they may choose to recognise theselves as gay / het / bi. My best friend is bi, we talk about it a lot, and for her it's about the person rather than anything else...I think attitudes and sexuality can both be fluid things.

I've slept with girls, I'm pretty sure I'm het but at the same time, sometimes there's just something there you go for. I wouldn't even call myself bi. I'm just me.

[Jamesy]

I do know the difference, thanks, I'm a lawyer. I'm not even talking about recognition. I'm also an ex-soldier, so I also know about gays in the military. All I'm saying is that the word marriage applies to one set of circumstances. What's the problem with having a different word with the same rights to reflect a different sexuality?

It's an equality thing more than anything else. Given they are both pretty much the same thing (give or take some differences between both) having a different name implies that there are great differences between both.

The term 'marriage' for same-sex couples generally gives off the image that we are all as one. Makes same-sex couples feel more accepted in society.

It may seem like a trivial thing but for some simple saying they are married to the same sex is a pretty special thing. Just as special as a hetrosexual couple getting married.

[Jezzy]

It's an equality thing more than anything else. Given they are both pretty much the same thing (give or take some differences between both) having a different name implies that there are great differences between both.

The term 'marriage' for same-sex couples generally gives off the image that we are all as one. Makes same-sex couples feel more accepted in society.

It may seem like a trivial thing but for some simple saying they are married to the same sex is a pretty special thing. Just as special as a hetrosexual couple getting married.

Actually, thank you for that, Jamesy. It just makes me sad that it's all down to one word for feeling equality. I've never had it put to me in the same way you just did. <3

[daniel-lewis-1985]

OMG are you actually being serious? Gay people can walk anywhere and people don't notice their sexuality but when you are of a certain race that is noticed. Of course being racist is far worse because you're judging someone based on a physical trait and shouldn't even be considered. Like Chuff said, gays aren't never lacked in any rights really except for having families which isn't even a big deal. Talk to me when they've been enslaved, denied the right to vote, et cetera. Ignorant please.

Me and my ex walked through Westfield shopping centre once and got verbally abused by a gang of lads and laughed at by parents with children.

Doesn't show much progression does it.

So being gay and of a certain race do kind of go hand in hand. Both have gone through hell in the past.

[Jezzy]

Me and my ex walked through Westfield shopping centre once and got verbally abused by a gang of lads and laughed at by parents with children.

Doesn't show much progression does it.

So being gay and of a certain race do kind of go hand in hand. Both have gone through hell in the past.

OK, try being an arab goth

[Jezzy]

Not trying to denigrate from anything. Hurtful comments hurt just as much whoever you are that's being picked on. I got stopped at Paddington for my backpack to be searched, I was held under the Prevention of Terrorism act for 12 hours. Woop, I have a suntan and curly hair. Airports won't stop you if you look a bit gay?

[Jezzy]

Just trying to say, we are all equal. Only society dictates whether some are more equal than others.

[Seanbon]

I was raised in a Catholic family, the Catholic church had one of the most ridiculous stances as to being gay.

Namely that they hate the sin but love the sinner. such nonsense didn't influence me and the more people that were gay that I got to know showed me how daft that idea and ruling of the church is.
It is now at long last making some overtones as to the issue but still has a massive way to go to be credible as to it.

However religion aside, whatever his religion is,Evander is not a young man, I am only 21,it is for me at any rate, not acceptable to hear someone of such so called maturity spouting out such harmful, wrong and to many offensive opinionated garbage.

He will also well know that there are cameras on the go 24/7 in the house too. I cannot see how he couldn't possibly be aware of that fact.

Being raised a Catholic,and being raised in some of the more fundamentalist Christian churches in the US are two different things! They often believe that everything in the Bible is to be taken literally,and this is ingrained in you from an early age,and is not that easy to escape from! Not an excuse for his opinion,but maybe a reason?!?
As regards his knowledge of BB,I would imagine it would be fairly limited! I'm guessing that he doesn't realise that all conversations are heard and/or broadcast?!?

[daniel-lewis-1985]

I do know the difference, thanks, I'm a lawyer. I'm not even talking about recognition. I'm also an ex-soldier, so I also know about gays in the military. All I'm saying is that the word marriage applies to one set of circumstances. What's the problem with having a different word with the same rights to reflect a different sexuality?

But you asked why it was different?

If you dont know the difference between marriage and a civil partnership I fear for the law lol. Do you work in *Injury Lawyers 4 u?

There are differences in legal matters unfortunately but not for long :) come March theres gonna be queers walking down that church isle with people sat in their seats giggling at the freak show.

Marriage should be just marriage calling it something else just segregates people.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

I' sure it's both weird and difficult. But I'm sure at the same time that through someone's sexual development, they may choose to recognise theselves as gay / het / bi. My best friend is bi, we talk about it a lot, and for her it's about the person rather than anything else...I think attitudes and sexuality can both be fluid things.

I've slept with girls, I'm pretty sure I'm het but at the same time, sometimes there's just something there you go for. I wouldn't even call myself bi. I'm just me.

Ok then.....You slept with the same sex.

Evander Holyfield says that's wrong.

Whats your response?

[Kazanne]

If you LOVE someone and they love you,why is the marriage thing so important? you can live together as though you are married that is not illegal so why crave the piece of paper.isn't it a religious ceremony anyway, one of the things that people seem so against regarding this.

[Jezzy]

But you asked why it was different?

If you dont know the difference between marriage and a civil partnership I fear for the law lol. Do you work in *Injury Lawyers 4 u?

There are differences in legal matters unfortunately but not for long :) come March theres gonna be queers walking down that church isle with people sat in their seats giggling at the freak show.

Marriage should be just marriage calling it something else just segregates people.

Lol, uber insult, thanks :) No, I don't. I'm a jurisprudence academic, not practicing.

Why are you calling it a freak show if you believe that the word marriage enables favourable opinion?

Marriage is a bible definition. Not saying I agree with it, that's just what it is. A biblical sacrament. Between a man and a woman. Fact. Blame the church. It's written in law.

I can't right wrongs, I can't force people to tolerate each other. I just think all the petty sniping and hate, and you change this, you change that...why? Do we really need to be told who and what we are, and whether some ancient religious rules can make a difference? The whole problem is way deeper, and will never be resolved.

[Jezzy]

Ok then.....You slept with the same sex.

Evander Holyfield says that's wrong.

Whats your response?

My response is that Evander Holyfield has an unenlightened view. It makes him wrong in the eyes of the majority of society.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

If you LOVE someone and they love you,why is the marriage thing so important? you can live together as though you are married that is not illegal so why crave the piece of paper.isn't it a religious ceremony anyway, one of the things that people seem so against regarding this.

Its just the fact that we are not allowed to do it if we want but straight couples can.

Its like equality.

I totally agree with you on the rest.

[Jezzy]

If you LOVE someone and they love you,why is the marriage thing so important? you can live together as though you are married that is not illegal so why crave the piece of paper.isn't it a religious ceremony anyway, one of the things that people seem so against regarding this.

You've got it.

[Kizzy]

You are absolutely right Kizzy. One would hope by now that people would realise that airing controversial opinions on such a show would inevitably lead to being hauled over the coals. And it's right to do so, and to question.

Damn their eyes anyone who doesn't conform to the norm.

[Jezzy]

Damn their eyes anyone who doesn't conform to the norm.

Can we damn their eyes? Is it allowed? :P

I damn you for an uber massive expressing your opinion. Stop it.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

My response is that Evander Holyfield has an unenlightened view. It makes him wrong in the eyes of the majority of society.

Agreed.

Trust me though try holding hands with another man walking down the high street and not get stared at.

Its still there and it pisses me off so when Evander calls it wrong its just the worst possible thing he could say.

Like a parent would say *Im not angry im just disappointed HAHA

[Kazanne]

You've got it.

From what I know,I see marriage as a religious ceremony,the bible says to be gay is wrong,so WHY the need for anyone gay to want to actually want to get married,if the bible is against them,we'de all like things to be equal but we cant always have what we want.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

From what I know,I see marriage as a religious ceremony,the bible says to be gay is wrong,so WHY the need for anyone gay to want to actually want to get married,if the bible is against them,we'de all like things to be equal but we cant always have what we want.

Would you hunt me down and kill me if I married Gerard Butler? lol

[Jezzy]

Agreed.

Trust me though try holding hands with another man walking down the high street and not get stared at.

Its still there and it pisses me off so when Evander clals it wrong its just the worst possible thing he could say.

Like a parent would say *Im not angry im just disappointed HAHA

Tell you Daniel...in India, hetero men walk down the street holding hands with each other. It expresses friendship. And the parent quote makes me sad....would any parent really be disappointed about their child's sexuality? Wtf does it have to do with their parents?

[Jezzy]

Would you hunt me down and kill me if I marries Gerard Butler? lol

OFC she would, Gerard Butler is Kazanne's, we all know this :)

[daniel-lewis-1985]

OFC she would, Gerard Butler is Kazanne's, we all know this :)

I don't find him attractive but cant help being drawn in by his eyes lol.

[Jezzy]

I don't find him attractive but cant help being drawn in by his eyes lol.

It's the same thing with Jesse from Breaking Bad, I despise him but he has amazing eyes :P

[Kazanne]

Would you hunt me down and kill me if I married Gerard Butler? lol

Of course I would,I'de pull your hair out at least !! :shocked: but seriously , I am married but If I was in a position that the church would not marry me ,I would be content just to live with my chosen partner,I don't need a piece of paper to tell me I love him.