Jim lying low after the noms (vid)

[erinp5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrT9ASEHn18

LrT9ASEHn18

[Vanessa]

And people say he's not getting bullied? He can't even nominate who he likes. :huh:

[Kazanne]

Lee ,not wanting to say bitching,lol says discussion,poor jim

[Amy Jade]

And people say he's not getting bullied? He can't even nominate who he likes. :huh:
Still not bullying. Try harder he's still not a martyr.

[erinp5]

Mummy Nolan must be so happy .
I am not a big fan of Jim's but in the house they are trying to push every button ,the more they push the more I will support him to stay .

[Vanessa]

Still not bullying. Try harder he's still not a martyr.

It's bullying.

[joeysteele]

Hope he continues to ignore them,especially that daft Nolan witch.

[Kazanne]

Hope he continues to ignore them,especially that daft Nolan witch.

Me too Joey,some horrible women in there

[Patricia4]

She is so rotten that Linda.

[Z]

I'm fairly certain he must have nominated Linda/Luisa and Sam because he didn't vote for Liz and whoever his other vote was for, they clearly only got the one nomination from him because if Dappy or Sam had used up their other nomination on the same person, then they'd be up.

[Amy Jade]

It's bullying.
It's really not, but if it makes you feel good pretending it is then good luck with that.

[Vanessa]

It's really not, but if it makes you feel good pretending it is then good luck with that.

In my opinion it is.

[Jamie585]

I hate the over use of the word 'bullying' he's a grown man who could stick up for himself but chooses not too..

[Z]

It's really not, but if it makes you feel good pretending it is then good luck with that.

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

[Vanessa]

I hate the over use of the word 'bullying' he's a grown man who could stick up for himself but chooses not too..

If he does he's called all sort of names. And Linda cries. :bawling:

[Vanessa]

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

Now they're telling him WHO HE SHOULD VOTE FOR. :crazy:

[Kazanne]

In my opinion it is.

It's bullying Vanessa it's plain for any with eyes to see.

[Seraphim]

It's really not, but if it makes you feel good pretending it is then good luck with that.

I'd say that sitting in a group bitching about a person who might be within hearing distance is a form of bullying. She frequently makes nasty comments in a loud voice so he can hear them, and other times, she creates a little huddle who talk in low voices and stop when he enters the room, making it abundantly clear who's being spoken about. Even when Liz tried to change the subect into more general terms and make the point that it is a game, and everyone must nominate someone, Linda immediately reverted to her favourite pastime of bitching about Jim.

Listening to her bitter voice announcing repeatedly "He wants to win.." like wanting to win was some dreadful personality defect which none of the others share was truly pathetic.

[Vanessa]

It's bullying Vanessa it's plain for any with eyes to see.

I'm sure Jim doesn't care anyway. He wants to go. He still gets his money. :joker:

[Macie Lightfoot]

It's bullying.

:joker: your perception of bullying is so odd, saying that Jim's being bullied but Deana wasn't and she deserved what Conor gave to her.

[Kazanne]

I'm sure Jim doesn't care anyway. He wants to go. He still gets his money. :joker:

yes,but hopefully he'll stay just to piss off the old trout and gob on legs

[Z]

I'd say that sitting in a group bitching about a person who might be within hearing distance is a form of bullying. She frequently makes nasty comments in a loud voice so he can hear them, and other times, she creates a little huddle who talk in low voices and stop when he enters the room, making it abundantly clear who's being spoken about. Even when Liz tried to change the subect into more general terms and make the point that it is a game, and everyone must nominate someone, Linda immediately reverted to her favourite pastime of bitching about Jim.

Listening to her bitter voice announcing repeatedly "He wants to win.." like wanting to win was some dreadful personality defect which none of the others share was truly pathetic.

Agree with this. She takes an inch and runs a mile with it just to bitch about Jim, it's honestly pathetic.

[Vanessa]

:joker: your perception of bullying is so odd, saying that Jim's being bullied but Deana wasn't and she deserved what Conor gave to her.

My opinion. Feel free to disgree.

[GiRTh]

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.Totally agree with this. Its only because Jim has a 'history' people seem to think he deserves it but he's definitely being singled out in that house.

[Vanessa]

yes,but hopefully he'll stay just to piss off the old trout and gob on legs

He'll be fine, even if he goes. He'll be with his family, who love and support him. :love:

[Vanessa]

Totally agree with this. Its only because Jim has a 'history' people seem to think he deserves it but he's definitely being singled out in that house.

It's starting to remind me of Aaron. He was in a similar situation.

[Macie Lightfoot]

It's starting to remind me of Aaron. He was in a similar situation.

and they're both as awful as each other, what a coincidence

[Vanessa]

and they're both as awful as each other, what a coincidence

For you, maybe. A lot of people like him. He won the show.

[Macie Lightfoot]

For you, maybe. A lot of people like him. He won the show.

He won because FB voting was ridiculous cheap and the forums were a fringe group with way too much control.

[Kazanne]

He won because FB voting was ridiculous cheap and the forums were a fringe group with way too much control.

He WON,end of and rightly so

[Seraphim]

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

Wow! This thread moves fast. This is so similar to the way I see things. I just cross-posted something similar, but you make more points. I'm sure that Jim feels bullied, but I think he's probably looking on it as a bit of an endurance test, and must be feeling a sense of satisfaction that he hasn't lost his cool.

[Munchkins]

Omg Deana was bullied, with threats of violence, aka the Epilator incident
anyone who denies that O_O
there definitely is a gang mentality with Jim, which is nasty, but its mainly all stemmed from Linda

[Macie Lightfoot]

He WON,end of and rightly so

and he was greeted with a chorus of BOOS, end of and rightly so

[Amy Jade]

Omg Deana was bullied, with threats of violence, aka the Epilator incident
anyone who denies that O_O
there definitely is a gang mentality with Jim, which is nasty, but its mainly all stemmed from Linda
PM hunneh

[GiRTh]

Before the series stated I would baulk at the thought of Jim Davidson winning BB. I'm aware of his history and it shows he's not a particularly nice person but now I think of all the Hm;'s he deserves the victory more than any other. He's only probably done two things that people can point as being unacceptable; apart from that he's behaved himself in the face of alot of provocation. He'd be a worthy winner.;

[joeysteele]

There is a nastier element ot what they are doing as to Jim, okay he may be miserable a lot but he does try to just get away from them.
They don't do that they set out to 'pick on him' for want of a better description.

I hold back usually from bullying as a word being used, but definitely Linda and Luisa are picking on him, they also do so trying to use the group as a whole to join in with their 'harrassment' of him.

For me, because he doesn't really fight back,they are able to keep on picking every fault at near everything he does and try to belittle him.
This definitely is the closest to bullying I have come across.

They also are well aware that should he ever explode and fire back in a real rage at them he will likely be seen as the bad guy and end up in fact being seen the bully,which they could then use even more against him.

So far he has shown incredible restraint in my opinion and I doubt in the face of what he has had to put up with I would have shown such restraint.

[Z]

Before the series stated I would baulk at the thought of Jim Davidson winning BB. I'm aware of his history and it shows he's not a particularly nice person but now I think of all the Hm;'s he deserves the victory more than any other. He's only probably done two things that people can point as being unacceptable; apart from that he's behaved himself in the face of alot of provocation. He'd be a worthy winner.;

That's how I feel too.

[Kazanne]

and he was greeted with a chorus of BOOS, end of and rightly so

He won who cares about the boos:hugesmile:

[Macie Lightfoot]

If we want to talk about any bullying or harassment, the whole Frank Carson incident epitomizes Jim's awfulness

[Alf]

and he was greeted with a chorus of BOOS, end of and rightly so
Makes it even better when you win and the Morons boo.

[Z]

If we want to talk about any bullying or harassment, the whole Frank Carson incident epitomizes Jim's awfulness

The part where he dobbed him in for being a criminal or the part where he mentioned it to Luisa to go ask Linda if that's why she hates him so much?

[GiRTh]

If we want to talk about any bullying or harassment, the whole Frank Carson incident epitomizes Jim's awfulnessThat was totally unacceptable but apart from that what has he done? He bought up something that he admitted he shouldn't have in the heat of the moment. Have you never done that? Has Linda never done that?. He apologised TWiICE the very next day. What more is he to do?

On the other hand look at the provocation he's had to put up with. The constant questioning of everything he says and giving it a sexist slant, Linda spreading her hatred of him throughout that house, deliberately trying to wake him up when he wants to sleep. He's put up with far more from them than they have from him.

[Lex]

Yes, the 'old big star' is definitely being bullied by the 'new nobodys' and the bitter 'old witch' ....but I think that they are ultimately going to loose,...and Jim will outstay them all!!

Jim For The Win.

[joeysteele]

Mentioning the Frank Carson incident has projected this CBB right into the public eye and done wonders for it really.

Had Linda took him to one side and said why she hated him so much, she could have avoided that.
However did she not relish having the chance to get at him and milk it for all it was worth afterwards.

Then she tried to gloss over the real story and what happened.
Stupid woman that she is.

[Macie Lightfoot]

The part where he dobbed him in for being a criminal or the part where he mentioned it to Luisa to go ask Linda if that's why she hates him so much?

The part where he terrorized a widow who filed for bankruptcy and was on welfare. That's not sympathetic or relatable or funny or entertaining to me.

That was totally unacceptable but apart from that what has he done? He bought up something that he admitted he shouldn't have in the heat of the moment. Have you never done that? Has Linda never done that?. He apologised TWiICE the very next day. What more is he to do?

On the other hand look at the provocation he's had to put up with. The constant questioning of everything he says and giving it a sexist slant, Linda spreading her hatred of him throughout that house, deliberately trying to wake him up when he wants to sleep. He's put up with far more from them than they have from him.

It wasn't just him bringing it up. It was the fact that she was in her bed near (and eventually in) tears and he kept covering around her trying to get a reaction in the smuggest of ways, misrepresenting what he said. And his first apology that morning was the most transparent thing I've seen so that doesn't even count in my books.

[Jezzy]

Lex, it is so lovely to see you!!

In the heat of the moment I'd probably have brought that up too if I'm being absolutely honest. I have a long fuse which I don't think Jim does, so even more respect to him. Pick...pick...pick...pick....enough to drive a nun (or a Nolan) to the point of no return.

[GiRTh]

It wasn't just him bringing it up. It was the fact that she was in her bed near (and eventually in) tears and he kept covering around her trying to get a reaction in the smuggest of ways, misrepresenting what he said. And his first apology that morning was the most transparent thing I've seen so that doesn't even count in my books.Absolutely not how I saw it.

The moment he realized what Lujisa had done his mood changed , he lost his confidence and actually questioned why Luisa would do that. He knew he;d touched on a sore point and for me never tried to gloat.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Absolutely not how I saw it.

The moment he realized what Lujisa had done his mood changed , he lost his confidence and actually questioned why Luisa would do that. He knew he;d touched on a sore point and for me never tried to gloat.

It was entirely calculated and he tried to go back on what he said, telling Luisa that it wasn't wise when she did exactly what he told her to do.

[Jordan.]

It's bullying to not like someone? Maybe stop and think why most people don't like him in the house.

[joeysteele]

The part where he terrorized a widow who filed for bankruptcy and was on welfare. That's not sympathetic or relatable or funny or entertaining to me.



It wasn't just him bringing it up. It was the fact that she was in her bed near (and eventually in) tears and he kept covering around her trying to get a reaction in the smuggest of ways, misrepresenting what he said. And his first apology that morning was the most transparent thing I've seen so that doesn't even count in my books.

I think this was said by the actress Bette Davis about Joan Crawford but it is for me something that can also be appropriate for not only Linda but also her Sister Coleen too as to tears.

The quote goes not word for word, 'I think the tear ducts of her eyes must be near her bladder since she cries an awful lot'.

It seems to me, both Coleen and Linda are very adept at turning on the tears for maximum effect, it is maybe the only thing they are good at.

[Amy Jade]

Absolutely not how I saw it.

The moment he realized what Lujisa had done his mood changed , he lost his confidence and actually questioned why Luisa would do that. He knew he;d touched on a sore point and for me never tried to gloat.
You are seriously pinning the blame on Luisa. This desperation has to stop.

[GiRTh]

It was entirely calculated and he tried to go back on what he said, telling Luisa that it wasn't wise when she did exactly what he told her to do.
Yes he tried to lie but he couldhnt and got found out. He knew how much this mattered.

[GiRTh]

You are seriously pinning the blame on Luisa. This desperation has to stop.How am I pinning this on Luisa? She was the one who relayed the information, If that not true then tell me what happened?

[Jordan.]

Lmfao he clearly wanted her to tell Linda hence why he brought it up, the delusion is unreal.

[Brother Leon]

It's become borderline tbf. If it was gender reversal I do think it would be considered more seriously. When Conor,Luke and Arron were talking about Deana non stop and supposedly making her life in there hell there was huge bullying claims(obviously stemmed from the Conor rap, but their other antics were considered bullying too).

In fairness to Jim, he just brushes it all off and drops a funny one liner so I suppose that is why it's not serious.

[Macie Lightfoot]

It seems to me, both Coleen and Linda are very adept at turning on the tears for maximum effect, it is maybe the only thing they are good at.

Yes, how dare someone cry at their enemy trying to humiliate their dead husband :rolleyes: give me a ****ing break

[GiRTh]

He did indeed tell Luisa to ask about Frank Carson but when he found out she had actually done it his mood changed. I dont see how I'm blaming Luisa but if you see it then please point it out.

[Amy Jade]

How am I pinning this on Luisa? She was the one who relayed the information, If that not true then tell me what happened?
He told Luisa to ask Linda and Luisa did, basically Luisa was innocent and he used her to ferry a message like a coward.

[GiRTh]

He told Luisa to ask Linda and Luisa did, basically Luisa was innocent and he used her to ferry a message like a coward.see above.

[Macie Lightfoot]

He did indeed tell Luisa to ask about Frank Carson but when he found out she had actually done it his mood changed. I dont see how I'm blaming Luisa but if you see it then please point it out.

Yes, his mood changed to smug satisfaction, asking Linda "what happened in Frank Carson's dressing room? Tell me about it :)" and continually trying to talk to her and get a reaction.

[Jezzy]

In fairness to Jim, he just brushes it all off and drops a funny one liner so I suppose that is why it's not serious.

Jim DOES brush it off. I'm sure there would be a lot that could get to him, but in all fairness he has tried not to rise. That's not to say that he isn't justified in doing so when he does. He's a lot different to the person he was 25+ years ago. So am I.

[GiRTh]

Yes, his mood changed to smug satisfaction, asking Linda "what happened in Frank Carson's dressing room? Tell me about it :)" and continually trying to talk to her and get a reaction.I dont remember that.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I dont remember that.

Selective memory is rich isn't it?

[Amy Jade]

The moment he realized what Lujisa had done his mood changed , he lost his confidence and actually questioned why Luisa would do that. He knew he;d touched on a sore point and for me never tried to gloat.
This is why it sounds like you are shifting the blame to Luisa. Twice you seemed to insinuate she did something wrong. If you didn't mean that I apologize but I hope you can see why I thought it.

[joeysteele]

Yes, how dare someone cry at their enemy trying to humiliate their dead husband :rolleyes: give me a ****ing break

I think Linda has done more to sour the memory of her dead husband with what she said the other night.
In fact Jim didn't mention her husband by name or even indicate that the Frank Carson had any connection to her husband anyway, as has been said repeatedly by many on here.

Linda could have said, she hadn't a clue what Jim was talking about and no housemate would likely then have been any the wiser.

Had she said she hadn't a clue what Jim meant but then Jim had gone on to bring in her husband then you may have a more valid point as to that.

[GiRTh]

Selective memory is rich isn't it?I dont remember cuz it didnt happen.

[Amy Jade]

I dont remember that.
I don't know if you are just trolling now :conf:

[Jezzy]

Linda could have said, she hadn't a clue what Jim was talking about and no housemate would likely then have been any the wiser.


Agree with you 100%. That's what I'd have done.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I think Linda has done more to sour the memory of her dead husband with what she said the other night.
In fact Jim didn't mention her husband by name or even indicate that the Frank Carson had any connection to her husband anyway, as has been said repeatedly by many on here.

Linda could have said, she hadn't a clue what Jim was talking about and no housemate would likely then have been any the wiser.

Had she said she hadn't a clue what Jim meant but then Jim had gone on to bring in her husband then you may have a more valid point as to that.

Nobody's claiming that Jim mentioned her husband by name. However, Jim's intentions were clear and it was entirely calculated. He knows what he was referring to, Linda knows what they were referring to. You're incredibly biased if you're trying to deny that.

How would my point be more valid if Linda ignored someone going below the belt? She stuck up for herself and for her husband and told Jim to **** off in a situation where he crossed many lines and should be told to **** off. If anything that's admirable.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I dont remember cuz it didnt happen.

Linda: Hello Mr. Big Time, what about Frank Carson's dressing room?
Jim: What about Frank Carson's dressing room?
Linda: What you asked Luisa to ask me about.
Jim: I didn't ask her anything about Frank Carson's dressing room.
Linda: 'Ask her about Frank Carson's dressing room.'
Jim: You tell me about Frank Carson's dressing room :)

nope, didn't happen at all.

[Northern Monkey]

It's bullying Vanessa it's plain for any with eyes to see.

I'm with you two,My eyeballs can see it's bullying.

[Jezzy]

Nobody's claiming that Jim mentioned her husband by name. However, Jim's intentions were clear and it was entirely calculated. He knows what he was referring to, Linda knows what they were referring to. You're incredibly biased if you're trying to deny that.

How would my point be more valid if Linda ignored someone going below the belt? She stuck up for herself and for her husband and told Jim to **** off in a situation where he crossed many lines and should be told to **** off. If anything that's admirable.

She bit. It's what she's been trying to make Jim do all game so far. Better play to pretend to have no idea and make him look a complete fool / force HIM to explain the incident should he care to do so.

[Jezzy]

(not a fan of either)

[Z]

Linda's a bit like a dragon sitting on top of a pile of gold. The gold being her "reasons for hating Jim" - she'll never budge from her gold, she'll just terrorise Jim until he exposes her one weakness and then she's flapping about, roaring in agony and the gold all falls over. A bit like in that latest Hobbit film.

[Macie Lightfoot]

She bit. It's what she's been trying to make Jim do all game so far. Better play to pretend to have no idea and make him look a complete fool / force HIM to explain the incident should he care to do so.

So basically what it comes down is that Linda's not allowed to stand her ground. Gotcha, I get it now.

[Jezzy]

So basically what it comes down is that Linda's not allowed to stand her ground. Gotcha, I get it now.

Not at all. Sometimes it's better not to react to make the enemy appear foolish and make you appear stronger. Depends where your strengths are; I prefer to let people dig their own holes. Expends less energy.

[Seraphim]

The part where he terrorized a widow who filed for bankruptcy and was on welfare. That's not sympathetic or relatable or funny or entertaining to me.


Terrorized a widow? Come off it. Linda had earlier told him to drop all the pretence and say what he was thinking. So when Luisa asked him why Linda had such a problem with him, Jim said she'd have to ask her, ask her about Frank Carson's dressingroom. That's not terrorizing a widow, and how on earth was he to anticipate that Linda would stage a massive over-reaction to it all?

Jim could have explained to the other housemates long before in order to put his own spin on it all, and he didn't - out of consideration to Linda's feelings and his respect for the dead. There was nothing wrong with telling Luisa to ask Linda. Linda could choose to brush it off, or explain as she liked.

It was not surprising that after she'd created such a ridiculous rumpus, and got everyone onto her side against Jim, she was sitting happily in bed bitching about something else a short time later.

[Kate!]

I'm with you two,My eyeballs can see it's bullying.

Linda's a bit like a dragon sitting on top of a pile of gold. The gold being her "reasons for hating Jim" - she'll never budge from her gold, she'll just terrorise Jim until he exposes her one weakness and then she's flapping about, roaring in agony and the gold all falls over. A bit like in that latest Hobbit film.

:laugh3:

My eyeballs!!

Roaring in agony!!

I'm in absolute stitches

[Northern Monkey]

:laugh3:

My eyeballs!!

Roaring in agony!!

I'm in absolute stitches
:blush:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Terrorized a widow? Come off it. Linda had earlier told him to drop all the pretence and say what he was thinking. So when Luisa asked him why Linda had such a problem with him, Jim said she'd have to ask her, ask her about Frank Carson's dressingroom. That's not terrorizing a widow, and how on earth was he to anticipate that Linda would stage a massive over-reaction to it all?

Jim could have explained to the other housemates long before in order to put his own spin on it all, and he didn't - out of consideration to Linda's feelings and his respect for the dead. There was nothing wrong with telling Luisa to ask Linda. Linda could choose to brush it off, or explain as she liked.

It was not surprising that after she'd created such a ridiculous rumpus, and got everyone onto her side against Jim, she was sitting happily in bed bitching about something else a short time later.

This is quite possibly the biggest bull**** I've EVER come across in all my years at this godforsaken forum (trust me, I've come across loads) so I'll be as succinct as possible.

It was all clearly calculated. Jim and Linda obviously know their history with each other and Jim knew that talking about the dressing room would hit a nerve. He set Luisa up, TOLD HER to ask Linda about Frank Carson's dressing room, and waited for the fireworks to explode. You're incredibly naive or biased or both if you think otherwise. Even more so if you think Linda STAGED a "massive overreaction" to her enemy humiliating her dead husband on national television.

I'm not even going to address the part where you say that this was out of consideration for Linda's feelings and respect for the dead because perhaps it could've been more considerate or respectful to, I don't know, maybe NOT EVEN BRING IT UP.

Pretty much what it comes down to is everyone expecting Linda to react a certain way. She shouldn't have bit back, she shouldn't have confronted Jim, she should've just let it go. Quite frankly, it's a situation that none of us can even relate to so it's not fair for anyone to say how Linda should've reacted. Besides, I personally find it more honorable and admirable that she let Jim know what a twat he was and told him to **** off.

It'll be interesting to see what the forums would say if Linda brought up something from Jim's past. I'm sure everyone would jump down her throat per usual, saying how dare she bring that up, would admire Jim for reacting however he chose to do so. It's the Aaron/Speidi complex where he's placed on a pedestal and simultaneously can do no wrong and everything done to him is wrong and he's the victim and the martyr.

[Z]

This is quite possibly the biggest bull**** I've EVER come across in all my years at this godforsaken forum (trust me, I've come across loads) so I'll be as succinct as possible.

It was all clearly calculated. Jim and Linda obviously know their history with each other and Jim knew that talking about the dressing room would hit a nerve. He set Luisa up, TOLD HER to ask Linda about Frank Carson's dressing room, and waited for the fireworks to explode. You're incredibly naive or biased or both if you think otherwise. Even more so if you think Linda STAGED a "massive overreaction" to her enemy humiliating her dead husband on national television.

I'm not even going to address the part where you say that this was out of consideration for Linda's feelings and respect for the dead because perhaps it could've been more considerate or respectful to, I don't know, maybe NOT EVEN BRING IT UP.

Pretty much what it comes down to is everyone expecting Linda to react a certain way. She shouldn't have bit back, she shouldn't have confronted Jim, she should've just let it go. Quite frankly, it's a situation that none of us can even relate to so it's not fair for anyone to say how Linda should've reacted. Besides, I personally find it more honorable and admirable that she let Jim know what a twat he was and told him to **** off.

It'll be interesting to see what the forums would say if Linda brought up something from Jim's past. I'm sure everyone would jump down her throat per usual, saying how dare she bring that up, would admire Jim for reacting however he chose to do so. It's the Aaron/Speidi complex where he's placed on a pedestal and simultaneously can do no wrong and everything done to him is wrong and he's the victim and the martyr.

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

[Seraphim]

This is quite possibly the biggest bull**** I've EVER come across in all my years at this godforsaken forum (trust me, I've come across loads) so I'll be as succinct as possible.

It was all clearly calculated. Jim and Linda obviously know their history with each other and Jim knew that talking about the dressing room would hit a nerve. He set Luisa up, TOLD HER to ask Linda about Frank Carson's dressing room, and waited for the fireworks to explode. You're incredibly naive or biased or both if you think otherwise. Even more so if you think Linda STAGED a "massive overreaction" to her enemy humiliating her dead husband on national television.

I'm not even going to address the part where you say that this was out of consideration for Linda's feelings and respect for the dead because perhaps it could've been more considerate or respectful to, I don't know, maybe NOT EVEN BRING IT UP.

Pretty much what it comes down to is everyone expecting Linda to react a certain way. She shouldn't have bit back, she shouldn't have confronted Jim, she should've just let it go. Quite frankly, it's a situation that none of us can even relate to so it's not fair for anyone to say how Linda should've reacted. Besides, I personally find it more honorable and admirable that she let Jim know what a twat he was and told him to **** off.

It'll be interesting to see what the forums would say if Linda brought up something from Jim's past. I'm sure everyone would jump down her throat per usual, saying how dare she bring that up, would admire Jim for reacting however he chose to do so. It's the Aaron/Speidi complex where he's placed on a pedestal and simultaneously can do no wrong and everything done to him is wrong and he's the victim and the martyr.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, because you clearly are unable to see through Linda. I am. Of course she deliberately made that ridiculous scene in order to manipulate the housemates and viewers into siding with her against Jim. That's her thing, or hadn't you noticed that either??

[Jezzy]

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

:worship:

Now I am really going to bed.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

So basically Linda's not allowed to hold a grudge with Jim Davidson. How dare that evil witch. Besides, Jim's the one who's been making incredibly patronizing and condescending comments all the time to the women. Almost every incident with Jim starts with him making an offensive comment to a woman (Linda or Luisa mainly), the woman understandably getting defensive, and then Jim muttering away about how surprise surprise, there's another argument and he's somehow in the wrong. It's incredibly irritating to watch and must be even more irritating to live with, but I'll wait for someone to tell me that Jim has freedom of speech and he's allowed to say whatever he wants to say (even though this logic would also apply to Linda and Luisa and everyone who has a problem with Jim.)

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, because you clearly are unable to see through Linda. I am. Of course she deliberately made that ridiculous scene in order to manipulate the housemates and viewers into siding with her against Jim. That's her thing, or hadn't you noticed that either??

So because I don't like national treasure Jim Davidson, I'm somehow fooled by Linda, who was understandably upset with someone she doesn't like humiliating her dead husband. Glad that's been established.

[Z]

So basically Linda's not allowed to hold a grudge with Jim Davidson. How dare that evil witch. Besides, Jim's the one who's been making incredibly patronizing and condescending comments all the time to the women. Almost every incident with Jim starts with him making an offensive comment to a woman (Linda or Luisa mainly), the woman understandably getting defensive, and then Jim muttering away about how surprise surprise, there's another argument and he's somehow in the wrong. It's incredibly irritating to watch and must be even more irritating to live with, but I'll wait for someone to tell me that Jim has freedom of speech and he's allowed to say whatever he wants to say (even though this logic would also apply to Linda and Luisa and everyone who has a problem with Jim.)

I honestly couldn't care less if she holds a grudge against him or not, I don't know her life, all I can judge is what I see on my TV screen. What I see on my TV is Linda forming a circle around her to bitch about Jim and make him an outcast. What I see on my TV is Linda telling people that she's hated Jim for years but never actually talking about why she hates him so much. What I see on my TV is Linda being petty, because she's refused to reveal why she hates Jim, leaving him to guess and when he brings up why he thinks she hates him, she bursts into tears and still refuses to talk about it.

Luisa, Linda and Jim are all as bad as each other. Trying to make one or more of them out to be better than another is like discussing the merits of, I don't know, one serious crime against another serious crime - they're both still bad! Jim's a grumpy old man with a nasty past, yes, but he's not let any of that out in the house. Maybe he's playing a game and he's still the person he's always been - but he hasn't let his demons from the past out in the house. Do you know who has? Linda. She's held a grudge for twenty years and she hasn't been able to let it go. She brought it into the house with her as her second piece of baggage and it's been lying out there in the house for the last two and a half weeks. I don't care about what happened in their past, I care about their present, and Linda is the one looking for fights and being horrible, not Jim. Who's the one who is isolated in the house and being bitched about and who is the one surrounded by people and who is doing the bitching? And why is Linda surrounded by people? Because she keeps running her mouth about Jim without ever revealing what actually caused her to feel that way. Jim's kept a dignified silence about the whole thing, all he's ever said was "ask her about Frank Carson's dressing room" when asked by Luisa. Linda can't justify her hatred of Jim because her husband was found guilty and caught on camera.

[Seraphim]

So basically Linda's not allowed to hold a grudge with Jim Davidson. How dare that evil witch. Besides, Jim's the one who's been making incredibly patronizing and condescending comments all the time to the women. Almost every incident with Jim starts with him making an offensive comment to a woman (Linda or Luisa mainly), the woman understandably getting defensive, and then Jim muttering away about how surprise surprise, there's another argument and he's somehow in the wrong. It's incredibly irritating to watch and must be even more irritating to live with, but I'll wait for someone to tell me that Jim has freedom of speech and he's allowed to say whatever he wants to say (even though this logic would also apply to Linda and Luisa and everyone who has a problem with Jim.)

Actually, Linda was given many opportunities by Jim to make specific complaints. I'm a woman myself, and if someone continually made offensive/patronising comments, I'd probably allow a fair few to pass, because none of us are perfect, and everyone makes remarks which undermine the opposite sex - Linda makes them too. If it began to get too much, I'd sit them down and explain why certain comments were offensive. However, unless I have missed something, I'd have to disagree that most of the incidents were because of Jim.

Can you explain how it was offensive when Dappy went into the bedroom and told people that Jim wanted to go to bed? Because that was one of the many occasions when Linda loudly made an unnecessarily nasty remark aimed at Jim.

Anther time, Luisa was chatting about being a single parent, and Jim asked if she didn't miss having a man in her life (or something to that effect.) Linda went straight for his jugular with a foul-mouthed stream of insults which were totally uncalled for in the face of a perfectly legitimate conversational query.

If a woman (or anyone else) wishes to be treated with respect, maybe she should think about how best to earn it.


So because I don't like national treasure Jim Davidson, I'm somehow fooled by Linda, who was understandably upset with someone she doesn't like humiliating her dead husband. Glad that's been established.

I didn't mention anything about your personal feelings about Jim. But perhaps it does explain your inability to be objective and fair.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I honestly couldn't care less if she holds a grudge against him or not, I don't know her life, all I can judge is what I see on my TV screen. What I see on my TV is Linda forming a circle around her to bitch about Jim and make him an outcast. What I see on my TV is Linda telling people that she's hated Jim for years but never actually talking about why she hates him so much. What I see on my TV is Linda being petty, because she's refused to reveal why she hates Jim, leaving him to guess and when he brings up why he thinks she hates him, she bursts into tears and still refuses to talk about it.

Luisa, Linda and Jim are all as bad as each other. Trying to make one or more of them out to be better than another is like discussing the merits of, I don't know, one serious crime against another serious crime - they're both still bad! Jim's a grumpy old man with a nasty past, yes, but he's not let any of that out in the house. Maybe he's playing a game and he's still the person he's always been - but he hasn't let his demons from the past out in the house. Do you know who has? Linda. She's held a grudge for twenty years and she hasn't been able to let it go. She brought it into the house with her as her second piece of baggage and it's been lying out there in the house for the last two and a half weeks. I don't care about what happened in their past, I care about their present, and Linda is the one looking for fights and being horrible, not Jim. Who's the one who is isolated in the house and being bitched about and who is the one surrounded by people and who is doing the bitching? And why is Linda surrounded by people? Because she keeps running her mouth about Jim without ever revealing what actually caused her to feel that way. Jim's kept a dignified silence about the whole thing, all he's ever said was "ask her about Frank Carson's dressing room" when asked by Luisa. Linda can't justify her hatred of Jim because her husband was found guilty and caught on camera.

Jim's done enough to make himself an outcast. Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said. It's comments about Luisa not having a man in her life, how she doesn't have to spank her daughter, telling her to shut up and enjoy her argument, implying that she apologized without actually being sorry, and only wanting to cook for the men that make people not like him. Casey's the only girl who hasn't nominated him (the others have all nominated him twice) and Ollie and Lee have nominated him as well. People not liking Jim Davidson of all people don't make him a victim or a martyr, especially when all the girls who he's patronized have good reason to not like him.

You said that Linda's petty for not revealing her past history with Jim, but you said it yourself that you couldn't care less if she holds a grudge? That seems contradictory to me, and I don't see how Linda revealing her past history with Jim makes a difference. There's clearly a lot of history between them and it comes from a place of very deep-seated resentment. I don't think there's an obligation Linda to have to explain everything and relive what is obviously a traumatic past between them.

Again, it's extremely foolish to say that Jim doesn't know why Linda hates her and act like he was innocently inquiring if it had to do with Frank Carson's dressing room. He knew exactly what he was doing it and it was entirely calculated. He deliberately set Luisa up to inquire about an incident involving Linda's dead husband to upset her tremendously, and then pretend that it never happened. It's extremely malicious and underhanded and really is one of the slimiest, grossest things I've ever seen on this program.

I've heard different stories about Jim's involvement in the whole thing (that he was the one implemented the hidden camera, that he threatened to beat Linda's husband up over the thing, among other stories), but if we want to talk about pettiness I think him taking those actions to get someone arrested over 20 or 25 pounds is incredibly petty. Just my two cents.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Actually, Linda was given many opportunities by Jim to make specific complaints. I'm a woman myself, and if someone continually made offensive/patronising comments, I'd probably allow a fair few to pass, because none of us are perfect, and everyone makes remarks which undermine the opposite sex - Linda makes them too. If it began to get too much, I'd sit them down and explain why certain comments were offensive. However, unless I have missed something, I'd have to disagree that most of the incidents were because of Jim.

Can you explain how it was offensive when Dappy went into the bedroom and told people that Jim wanted to go to bed? Because that was one of the many occasions when Linda loudly made an unnecessarily nasty remark aimed at Jim.

Anther time, Luisa was chatting about being a single parent, and Jim asked if she didn't miss having a man in her life (or something to that effect.) Linda went straight for his jugular with a foul-mouthed stream of insults which were totally uncalled for in the face of a perfectly legitimate conversational query.

If a woman (or anyone else) wishes to be treated with respect, maybe she should think about how best to earn it.



I didn't mention anything about your personal feelings about Jim. But perhaps it does explain your inability to be objective and fair.

Well if you're a woman yourself and you'd accept a few patronizing comments from a known sexist that's quite a shame isn't it.

Linda said that it would do them all a favor if Jim left. That's not nearly as loud or unnecessarily nasty as you try to make it out to be, but everything seems to be slanted with you. Considering that nearly three quarters of the house has nominated Jim her comment doesn't seem to be that far from the truth. He's a mopey sad sack who makes everything a wounded production with how he's the victim being treated so poorly. Luckily people inside the house have his number.

Jim asked Luisa if it really doesn't bother her not having a man when she was talking about living in a fairy world with her daughter with his arms crossed and a sharp tone. It was out of the blue and completely unnecessary, implying that she'd be much better off with a man in her life (which isn't surprising at all coming from a misogynist is it?) All Linda said was that that was a Jim moment. That is not a foul-mouthed stream of insults that were totally uncalled for (quite frankly Jim needs someone questioning him) and that was not going straight for the jugular. It's sad that a woman like yourself finds that a perfectly legitimate conversational query.

and lol @ you saying that I'm the one unable to be objective and fair when there's the entirety of your last post. That's a laugh.

[reece(:]

If only troy's views echoed the rest of the country~

[Z]

Jim's done enough to make himself an outcast. Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said. It's comments about Luisa not having a man in her life, how she doesn't have to spank her daughter, telling her to shut up and enjoy her argument, implying that she apologized without actually being sorry, and only wanting to cook for the men that make people not like him. Casey's the only girl who hasn't nominated him (the others have all nominated him twice) and Ollie and Lee have nominated him as well. People not liking Jim Davidson of all people don't make him a victim or a martyr, especially when all the girls who he's patronized have good reason to not like him.

You said that Linda's petty for not revealing her past history with Jim, but you said it yourself that you couldn't care less if she holds a grudge? That seems contradictory to me, and I don't see how Linda revealing her past history with Jim makes a difference. There's clearly a lot of history between them and it comes from a place of very deep-seated resentment. I don't think there's an obligation Linda to have to explain everything and relive what is obviously a traumatic past between them.

Again, it's extremely foolish to say that Jim doesn't know why Linda hates her and act like he was innocently inquiring if it had to do with Frank Carson's dressing room. He knew exactly what he was doing it and it was entirely calculated. He deliberately set Luisa up to inquire about an incident involving Linda's dead husband to upset her tremendously, and then pretend that it never happened. It's extremely malicious and underhanded and really is one of the slimiest, grossest things I've ever seen on this program.

I've heard different stories about Jim's involvement in the whole thing (that he was the one implemented the hidden camera, that he threatened to beat Linda's husband up over the thing, among other stories), but if we want to talk about pettiness I think him taking those actions to get someone arrested over 20 or 25 pounds is incredibly petty. Just my two cents.

In my opinion, Linda made a point of turning everyone against Jim before he ever displayed any kind of behaviour that could possibly be misconstrued as misogynistic. People nominating him and being female doesn't prove anything other than the fact they all dislike him, because they're all part of the group that Linda has built around herself? Luisa made patronising and condescending comments about Dappy's intelligence, what's your point? They're as bad as each other. Just because you don't like Jim doesn't mean he deserves to be picked on. Life is not that black and white.

I don't care if Linda holds a grudge against Jim, she can do what she likes with her life, as I said, I'm judging by what I see on my TV and what I see is Linda aggressively skirting around why she hates Jim in order to get other people to hate him too but without ever acknowledging why she hates him. If she doesn't want it out in the open then why is she bringing it up at all? I think she wants closure on the whole thing, really, I think she wants to talk about it with Jim so she can put the whole thing to rest because clearly it's been winding her up for the last two decades. There is no obligation for Linda to clarify why she hates him, but if she's going to willingly bring it to our attention as viewers then it is to be expected that she will be perceived as bitchy and irrational if she won't reveal why she hates him so much.

Why am I foolish for "not seeing" that Jim was doing it on purpose? Linda wouldn't tell Luisa (or anyone) why she hates Jim so much so Luisa asked Jim and he told her to go ask Linda if it was about Frank Carson. Linda was angry and Jim realised his mistake straight away and first tried to pretend he didn't say it and then tried to apologise because where else would Luisa have gotten that information. Jim IS slimey and he IS horrible but so is Linda! What was the need for all the hysteria and crying? If that IS why she hates Jim so much then it's obviously been playing on her mind the entire time she's been in there or the mention of a bloody dressing room wouldn't have set her off into tears. And if that isn't why she hates Jim, then why did it upset her? So it clearly is why she hates him - so why would she have this agenda of actively hating him in the house if she wasn't prepared for it to eventually be brought up? What exactly are her motivations? Revenge. She wants to get revenge on Jim for embarrassing her all those years ago by making him look awful. I get it, I really do, but in the context of the Big Brother house, it makes her look spiteful and creates sympathy for Jim which is precisely why people have been supporting him. I think just about every Jim supporter I've come across on here has said at one time or another that they thought they would hate him but events in the house have changed their mind. Not because of Jim himself, but everyone around him trying to set off the guy with the spousal abuse in his past.

I've tried on numerous occasions to discuss this in a balanced way which I think is much more conducive to discussing Jim and Linda rather than trying to make Linda out to be a victim and Jim to be some kind of horrible bully when she's the one with the clique of people bloc voting on her behalf over some decades old feud that she doesn't even have the decency to explain to any of them?

Also, it wasn't "just" 20 or 25 pounds, Linda's husband was caught stealing money from the charity collection as part of a series of incidents, not one isolated incident, why on earth would there have been a secret camera filming the room if there had been no prior reason for one to be installed?

[Videostar]

Not at all. Sometimes it's better not to react to make the enemy appear foolish and make you appear stronger. Depends where your strengths are; I prefer to let people dig their own holes. Expends less energy.

Which is what Linda's been doing for weeks now, Jim's done well to walk away from her.

[Macie Lightfoot]

In my opinion, Linda made a point of turning everyone against Jim before he ever displayed any kind of behaviour that could possibly be misconstrued as misogynistic. People nominating him and being female doesn't prove anything other than the fact they all dislike him, because they're all part of the group that Linda has built around herself? Luisa made patronising and condescending comments about Dappy's intelligence, what's your point? They're as bad as each other. Just because you don't like Jim doesn't mean he deserves to be picked on. Life is not that black and white.

I don't care if Linda holds a grudge against Jim, she can do what she likes with her life, as I said, I'm judging by what I see on my TV and what I see is Linda aggressively skirting around why she hates Jim in order to get other people to hate him too but without ever acknowledging why she hates him. If she doesn't want it out in the open then why is she bringing it up at all? I think she wants closure on the whole thing, really, I think she wants to talk about it with Jim so she can put the whole thing to rest because clearly it's been winding her up for the last two decades. There is no obligation for Linda to clarify why she hates him, but if she's going to willingly bring it to our attention as viewers then it is to be expected that she will be perceived as bitchy and irrational if she won't reveal why she hates him so much.

Why am I foolish for "not seeing" that Jim was doing it on purpose? Linda wouldn't tell Luisa (or anyone) why she hates Jim so much so Luisa asked Jim and he told her to go ask Linda if it was about Frank Carson. Linda was angry and Jim realised his mistake straight away and first tried to pretend he didn't say it and then tried to apologise because where else would Luisa have gotten that information. Jim IS slimey and he IS horrible but so is Linda! What was the need for all the hysteria and crying? If that IS why she hates Jim so much then it's obviously been playing on her mind the entire time she's been in there or the mention of a bloody dressing room wouldn't have set her off into tears. And if that isn't why she hates Jim, then why did it upset her? So it clearly is why she hates him - so why would she have this agenda of actively hating him in the house if she wasn't prepared for it to eventually be brought up? What exactly are her motivations? Revenge. She wants to get revenge on Jim for embarrassing her all those years ago by making him look awful. I get it, I really do, but in the context of the Big Brother house, it makes her look spiteful and creates sympathy for Jim which is precisely why people have been supporting him. I think just about every Jim supporter I've come across on here has said at one time or another that they thought they would hate him but events in the house have changed their mind. Not because of Jim himself, but everyone around him trying to set off the guy with the spousal abuse in his past.

I've tried on numerous occasions to discuss this in a balanced way which I think is much more conducive to discussing Jim and Linda rather than trying to make Linda out to be a victim and Jim to be some kind of horrible bully when she's the one with the clique of people bloc voting on her behalf over some decades old feud that she doesn't even have the decency to explain to any of them?

Also, it wasn't "just" 20 or 25 pounds, Linda's husband was caught stealing money from the charity collection as part of a series of incidents, not one isolated incident, why on earth would there have been a secret camera filming the room if there had been no prior reason for one to be installed?

I never said Jim deserved to get picked on, or that he's even getting picked on. What I'm saying is that making comments to get others to react is setting yourself up to be ostracized. That doesn't make you a victim, that doesn't mean that you're getting picked on, and that certainly doesn't mean you're being bullied.

If Jim wanted to know why Linda hated him that badly he could've asked himself. Instead, he set the trap through Luisa to because Jim avoids confrontation and wanted her to take the fall for it instead. Once he got called out on it, he first denied it, then followed Linda into the bedroom and said that Frank Carson's a good old friend of theirs, asked Linda if she wants to tell him what SHE'S insinuating (because again, Jim's the martyr taking the fall for something Linda did in his twisted perception of reality), told Luisa that it wasn't wise of her to do exactly what he told her to do, and then came back and asked how this all could've happened from his comment about Frank Carson's dressing room. It wasn't until the next morning he gave an (extremely half-hearted) apology. I don't see how anyone can pretend that Jim doesn't know where her hatred is coming from when he's pinpointing it to a very specific incident. Even moreso, I don't see how anyone can ask what the need for "all the hysteria and crying" was when the whole incident was very traumatic to Linda. Jim brought it up to humiliate her dead husband so I don't see how her reaction was unwarranted. Her husband's dead, one of her sister is dead, she's a cancer survivor, she's had a fair share of financial problems, and there's probably a lot more that I don't know about. She's had an extremely tough life and Jim getting someone else to bring up something that obviously caused her a lot of grief and trauma is obviously going to warrant a tearful reaction. I honestly don't see how anyone can hold that against her.

And like I said, I don't know the full details of Frank Carson's dressing room and have heard many varying, conflicting stories about Jim's involvement so who knows.

[Seraphim]

Jim's done enough to make himself an outcast. Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said. It's comments about Luisa not having a man in her life, how she doesn't have to spank her daughter, telling her to shut up and enjoy her argument, implying that she apologized without actually being sorry, and only wanting to cook for the men that make people not like him.

What's wrong with asking someone if they don't miss having a partner? What is wrong with discussing different parenting styles and views on spanking? Where did you see Jim stating that he only wanted to cook for the men? I remember Luisa saying she didn't want to cook for certain people, but insisting on cooking for others, so Jim suggested that someone different cook for the men, just so it didn't get too petty. So what? How is that offensive?

Casey's the only girl who hasn't nominated him (the others have all nominated him twice) and Ollie and Lee have nominated him as well. People not liking Jim Davidson of all people don't make him a victim or a martyr, especially when all the girls who he's patronized have good reason to not like him.

What have the nominations got to do with anything? Just about everyone seems to nominate Liz too, and she's nothing like Jim.


You said that Linda's petty for not revealing her past history with Jim, but you said it yourself that you couldn't care less if she holds a grudge? That seems contradictory to me, and I don't see how Linda revealing her past history with Jim makes a difference. There's clearly a lot of history between them and it comes from a place of very deep-seated resentment. I don't think there's an obligation Linda to have to explain everything and relive what is obviously a traumatic past between them.

I think you're mixing me up with another poster, because I didn't say those things. I disagree with you that anyone should think themself entitled to subject anyone to relentless bitching, carping and nastiness without giving an explanation when asked by the person involved. If Linda felt that strongly about Jim, then she shouldn't have come into the house. She could have asked to defer her invitation until the next show.



Again, it's extremely foolish to say that Jim doesn't know why Linda hates her and act like he was innocently inquiring if it had to do with Frank Carson's dressing room. He knew exactly what he was doing it and it was entirely calculated. He deliberately set Luisa up to inquire about an incident involving Linda's dead husband to upset her tremendously, and then pretend that it never happened. It's extremely malicious and underhanded and really is one of the slimiest, grossest things I've ever seen on this program.



Oh for goodness' sake. Luisa was asking why Linda was being so foul towards him, and he simply said she'd have to ask Linda. Then, he said to ask about Frank Carson's dressingroom. What's the big deal? How is that malicious and underhand? Linda's a blinking battleaxe and as hard as nails. Once she'd got a nice big group on her bed, she was back bitching about something else. As far as Jim appearing to backtrack and deny that he'd said to Luisa to ask about the dressingroom, we don't know what was going on in his head, but if, as it appeared, he was trying to wriggle out of responsibility, then he wouldn't be the first person to tell a porky pie to avoid a scene.



I've heard different stories about Jim's involvement in the whole thing (that he was the one implemented the hidden camera, that he threatened to beat Linda's husband up over the thing, among other stories), but if we want to talk about pettiness I think him taking those actions to get someone arrested over 20 or 25 pounds is incredibly petty. Just my two cents.

If you don't know the circumstances then who are you to judge? Surely, however, common sense must tell you that if someone has gone to the lengths of installing a secret camera then it wasn't a single incident, but one of a series of thefts. It's not petty to involve the police in the case of stealing money. Perhaps by doing so it might stop the culprit from moving on to more serious amounts of money.

[Seraphim]

If Jim wanted to know why Linda hated him that badly he could've asked himself.

He did! Are you not reading any of the replies in this thread??


Like I said, he constantly makes patronizing and condescending comments to women and sets himself up to be the victim when they react defensively to something he said

Well, so far you have provided me with several examples of what you think are patronising and condescending comments, and I disgree that they are.

[Macie Lightfoot]

He did! Are you not reading any of the replies in this thread??

Sending Luisa to ask about Frank Carson's dressing room isn't the same as asking himself. And like I said, if he was able to pinpoint it to a specific incident he clearly knew where all the hate was bubbling from.

Well, so far you have provided me with several examples of what you think are patronising and condescending comments, and I disgree that they are.

Well the recipients of those comments found them quite patronizing and condescending as well, so your take on the matter is irrelevant.

[Kizzy]

He's ostracised himself, and made plenty of snide comments too. It's a lost cause trying to make folk aware of that... It's gotten to the point where if he punched her in the gob some would say she'd flung her face in front of his fist :idc:

[Seraphim]

In my opinion, Linda made a point of turning everyone against Jim before he ever displayed any kind of behaviour that could possibly be misconstrued as misogynistic. People nominating him and being female doesn't prove anything other than the fact they all dislike him, because they're all part of the group that Linda has built around herself? Luisa made patronising and condescending comments about Dappy's intelligence, what's your point? They're as bad as each other. Just because you don't like Jim doesn't mean he deserves to be picked on. Life is not that black and white.

I don't care if Linda holds a grudge against Jim, she can do what she likes with her life, as I said, I'm judging by what I see on my TV and what I see is Linda aggressively skirting around why she hates Jim in order to get other people to hate him too but without ever acknowledging why she hates him. If she doesn't want it out in the open then why is she bringing it up at all? I think she wants closure on the whole thing, really, I think she wants to talk about it with Jim so she can put the whole thing to rest because clearly it's been winding her up for the last two decades. There is no obligation for Linda to clarify why she hates him, but if she's going to willingly bring it to our attention as viewers then it is to be expected that she will be perceived as bitchy and irrational if she won't reveal why she hates him so much.

Why am I foolish for "not seeing" that Jim was doing it on purpose? Linda wouldn't tell Luisa (or anyone) why she hates Jim so much so Luisa asked Jim and he told her to go ask Linda if it was about Frank Carson. Linda was angry and Jim realised his mistake straight away and first tried to pretend he didn't say it and then tried to apologise because where else would Luisa have gotten that information. Jim IS slimey and he IS horrible but so is Linda! What was the need for all the hysteria and crying? If that IS why she hates Jim so much then it's obviously been playing on her mind the entire time she's been in there or the mention of a bloody dressing room wouldn't have set her off into tears. And if that isn't why she hates Jim, then why did it upset her? So it clearly is why she hates him - so why would she have this agenda of actively hating him in the house if she wasn't prepared for it to eventually be brought up? What exactly are her motivations? Revenge. She wants to get revenge on Jim for embarrassing her all those years ago by making him look awful. I get it, I really do, but in the context of the Big Brother house, it makes her look spiteful and creates sympathy for Jim which is precisely why people have been supporting him. I think just about every Jim supporter I've come across on here has said at one time or another that they thought they would hate him but events in the house have changed their mind. Not because of Jim himself, but everyone around him trying to set off the guy with the spousal abuse in his past.

I've tried on numerous occasions to discuss this in a balanced way which I think is much more conducive to discussing Jim and Linda rather than trying to make Linda out to be a victim and Jim to be some kind of horrible bully when she's the one with the clique of people bloc voting on her behalf over some decades old feud that she doesn't even have the decency to explain to any of them?

Also, it wasn't "just" 20 or 25 pounds, Linda's husband was caught stealing money from the charity collection as part of a series of incidents, not one isolated incident, why on earth would there have been a secret camera filming the room if there had been no prior reason for one to be installed?

Wow - what a wonderful post. :worship:

[Seraphim]

Sending Luisa to ask about Frank Carson's dressing room isn't the same as asking himself. And like I said, if he was able to pinpoint it to a specific incident he clearly knew where all the hate was bubbling from.

Well the recipients of those comments found them quite patronizing and condescending as well, so your take on the matter is irrelevant.

Jim didn't 'send Luisa to ask'. He told Luisa that if she wanted to know, then she'd have to ask Linda herself. There is a subtle difference there, and I think that is why Jim initially denied Linda's first accusations - because she wasn't actually getting it right.

Since you cannot read minds, you cannot tell if the recipients of these comments found them patronising and conscending or not, because they didn't say. However, the only people who'd find such innocuous comments to be patronising or condescending would be people who have an enormous chip on their shoulder, or an inferiority complex.

[Kizzy]

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

[Macie Lightfoot]

What's wrong with asking someone if they don't miss having a partner? What is wrong with discussing different parenting styles and views on spanking? Where did you see Jim stating that he only wanted to cook for the men? I remember Luisa saying she didn't want to cook for certain people, but insisting on cooking for others, so Jim suggested that someone different cook for the men, just so it didn't get too petty. So what? How is that offensive?

Luisa wasn't even talking about being a single mother and Jim's comment implied that she needed one. He surely wouldn't ask a single father if they miss having a woman. The sexism was clear as day when he turned Luisa not wanting to cook for him and Lionel into him offering to cook for the men only.

What have the nominations got to do with anything? Just about everyone seems to nominate Liz too, and she's nothing like Jim.

Well, they show that Linda's far from the only one sick of Jim.

If Linda felt that strongly about Jim, then she shouldn't have come into the house. She could have asked to defer her invitation until the next show.

Did she have any way of knowing Jim would be going in there?

Oh for goodness' sake. Luisa was asking why Linda was being so foul towards him, and he simply said she'd have to ask Linda. Then, he said to ask about Frank Carson's dressingroom. What's the big deal? How is that malicious and underhand? Linda's a blinking battleaxe and as hard as nails. Once she'd got a nice big group on her bed, she was back bitching about something else. As far as Jim appearing to backtrack and deny that he'd said to Luisa to ask about the dressingroom, we don't know what was going on in his head, but if, as it appeared, he was trying to wriggle out of responsibility, then he wouldn't be the first person to tell a porky pie to avoid a scene.

It's malicious and underhanded because brought it up to humiliate her deceased husband. How many times does that have to be stated before you get it?

Jim didn't 'send Luisa to ask'. He told Luisa that if she wanted to know, then she'd have to ask Linda herself. There is a subtle difference there, and I think that is why Jim initially denied Linda's first accusations - because she wasn't actually getting it right.

His exact words were "You should ask her. Ask her about Frank Carson's dressing room." Which is exactly what Linda accused him of doing. Your fan fiction does have a nice spin to it though, I'll give you that.

Since you cannot read minds, you cannot tell if the recipients of these comments found them patronising and conscending or not, because they didn't say. However, the only people who'd find such innocuous comments to be patronising or condescending would be people who have an enormous chip on their shoulder, or an inferiority complex.

If they didn't find them patronizing or condescending, they wouldn't have reacted the way they did. And they actual value themselves as women so they're not going to let a known misogynist make subtle and sly digs at them.

[Seraphim]

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

He was telling her straight that Lee isn't seriously interested in her. Yeah - she was gutted.. but people have already told her less bluntly to back off Lee and she didn't want to hear it.. It was time someone put her straight. If she takes it on board, it'll save her a lot of heartache later on, because we know exactly what will happen the moment Lee gets her alone outside of the BB house. Jim was not laughing like a drain. He was serious and hopefully she'll think about what he said and act accordingly.

[Kizzy]

You just contradicted yourself seraphim, in one comment you said he didn't send luisa to ask but said 'if you want to know ask linda' and another that he said 'ask about Frank Carsons dressing room'....

[Kizzy]

He was telling her straight that Lee isn't seriously interested in her. Yeah - she was gutted.. but people have already told her less bluntly to back off Lee and she didn't want to hear it.. It was time someone put her straight. If she takes it on board, it'll save her a lot of heartache later on, because we know exactly what will happen the moment Lee gets her alone outside of the BB house. Jim was not laughing like a drain. He was serious and hopefully she'll think about what he said and act accordingly.

How does he know... what's he the all seeing eye? house oracle?

[Seraphim]

I haven't time to respond to your post. Sorry about that.. Just a couple of things before I sign off though:

Well if you're a woman yourself and you'd accept a few patronizing comments from a known sexist that's quite a shame isn't it.

I said that everyone makes digs at the opposite sex, including Linda. I make them myself - sometimes in jest, sometimes as generalisations, and I afford men the same kind of latitude as they afford me. That's simple courtesy.

With regard to the query about Luisa not missing having a man.. He did not say it sharply: he said it in a normal tone. And yes - he could equally well have asked a man the same question. It is neither offensive or patronising.


It's malicious and underhanded because brought it up to humiliate her deceased husband. How many times does that have to be stated before you get it?

He didn't bring it up to 'humiliate' her deceased husband. He brought it up in response to Luisa's question about why Linda was so angry with him. Note that Luisa herself was having to ask what the problem was - so Jim couldn't have been as obnoxious and sexist as you are making out, otherwise Luisa wouldn't have been asking what the problem was. As far as I'm concerned, if Jim had wanted to bring up Linda's husband, he would have done so far, far earlier. And if he had done so, Linda's reaction would have been the same. She was spoiling for a fight, and trying to goad Jim into one the whole time. You can state otherwise until you are blue in the face, but I am not going to "get it" just because you keep repeating it.

If they didn't find them patronizing or condescending, they wouldn't have reacted the way they did. You haven't actually given me examples of any incidents when someone other than Linda reacted angrily or badly to anything Jim said.

And they actual value themselves as women so they're not going to let a known misogynist make subtle and sly digs at them.

I quite agree. That is why we saw Luisa and Dappy have one hell of a row over Dappy's double standards. She quite rightly didn't let him off with it. When Luisa nominated Jim, she didn't nominate him because of sexist comments and sly digs. She said he was a "grumpy bastard".

Okay - I'm off. Good night.

[Macie Lightfoot]

With regard to the query about Luisa not missing having a man.. He did not say it sharply: he said it in a normal tone. And yes - he could equally well have asked a man the same question. It is neither offensive or patronising.

It was a very sharp and disproving tone, and my point is that he wouldn't ask that to a man because as usual, Jim has no problems with any of the men in there.


He didn't bring it up to 'humiliate' her deceased husband. He brought it up in response to Luisa's question about why Linda was so angry with him. Note that Luisa herself was having to ask what the problem was - so Jim couldn't have been as obnoxious and sexist as you are making out, otherwise Luisa wouldn't have been asking what the problem was. As far as I'm concerned, if Jim had wanted to bring up Linda's husband, he would have done so far, far earlier. And if he had done so, Linda's reaction would have been the same. She was spoiling for a fight, and trying to goad Jim into one the whole time. You can state otherwise until you are blue in the face, but I am not going to "get it" just because you keep repeating it.

If he wanted to bring it up in response to Luisa's question he would've said because of what happened in Frank Carson's dressing room. Instead, he employed Luisa to ask Linda herself what happened in Frank Carson's dressing room, reminding Linda of a very dark time in her dark enough life and rubbing salt in all of her wounds.

You haven't actually given me examples of any incidents when someone other than Linda reacted angrily or badly to anything Jim said.

I mean, I didn't think I needed to if you've been watching the show? If you're asking for a serious answer, there were many instances with Luisa and Jasmine (Jim telling Jasmine to **** off, Luisa's refusal to cook for him, everything with Jim's noise complaints at night, etc.)

When Luisa nominated Jim, she didn't nominate him because of sexist comments and sly digs. She said he was a "grumpy bastard".

No, but she has said over and over again how Jim's sexist and chauvinistic and hates her becasue he's never met a woman like her who's strong and independent and stands up for what she believes in and doesn't take any ****. Besides, you said nominations don't have anything to do with it.

Okay - I'm off. Good night.

Good night!

[Ammi]

I have one very simple response to your post: if Linda wanted consideration for her feelings she wouldn't have been bitching about Jim and pushing him to this point for the last two and a half weeks. She wouldn't want it brought up at all. If she didn't want the shame, humiliation, embarrassment or upset of her past brought up then she shouldn't have been goading Jim or holding a grudge against him for the last twenty years. Maybe she never made peace with what her husband was caught doing. Jim is an arsehole, a misogynist, a chauvinist, a wife beater and a recovering alcoholic but that does not for one minute excuse Linda Nolan's one woman hate campaign against him, that doesn't excuse her from picking on him at every possible minute nor does it excuse her from refusing to make peace with her past in favour of moaning about Jim and trying to fight with him all the time.

..I agree with this in that Linda has been a nightmare and really awful/miserable in general...but for me, even if I take away the content of what he said and it referring to her deceased husband, he didn't say it in 'the heat..' of the argument, he had walked away and then how he said it to Luisa seemed very controlled/calculated etc, which was very telling for me of his character...I know things can be interpreted in different ways and Jim being so controversial in general but Linda also being pretty unpleasant will mean it's hard to agree on these things and see them the same but for me, it doesn't mean because Linda has been a bitch, that it makes Jim a nicer person because I think they're both pretty crumby tbh ...

[Slevin]

i dont think he said that in the heat of the moment either. seemed calm enough when he said that and it wasnt even a big blow up til Linda went out to the garden.

[Amy Jade]

I agree with Troy, Kizzy and Ammi - great posts guys!

[Cherie]

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

It was a bit uncomfortable, however on the other hand like Luisa he has no "filter" and he was being honest!. In fairness if it snaps her out of it, it will be a good thing.

[jet]

Mummy Nolan must be so happy .
I am not a big fan of Jim's but in the house they are trying to push every button ,the more they push the more I will support him to stay .

Jim has brought it on himself by isolating himself deliberately from the group and disapproving of any fun. Last night after the task when they went over to the table with the food BB had provided he stood and looked at it and then said in disgust "I'm going to bed" before shuffling off. WTF?
Nobody cares by this stage and he didn't get the reaction he wanted so he got up again :hugesmile:
In the diary room he said he didn't like partying or dancing - but the problem is he can't enjoy or tolerate other people having fun either.

The best moment of BB so far for me was BB playing the Nolans 'I'm in the mood for dancing' into the bedroom. Jim's face!!!
BB has a wicked sense of humour. :joker:
They obviously don't think Poor Jim is being bullied at all or they wouldn't have done that.

[Josy]

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

I'd say that sitting in a group bitching about a person who might be within hearing distance is a form of bullying. She frequently makes nasty comments in a loud voice so he can hear them, and other times, she creates a little huddle who talk in low voices and stop when he enters the room, making it abundantly clear who's being spoken about. Even when Liz tried to change the subect into more general terms and make the point that it is a game, and everyone must nominate someone, Linda immediately reverted to her favourite pastime of bitching about Jim.

Listening to her bitter voice announcing repeatedly "He wants to win.." like wanting to win was some dreadful personality defect which none of the others share was truly pathetic.

Great posts.

He's a wily old git, take what he did tonight to casey for instance... that was horrid and she was gutted, he humiliated her and he and lee were laughing like drains about it with a total disregard for her feelings.
Casey really likes him too, so he wasn't retaliating there was he? just being a rude nasty old drunk.
The Paula Thompson interview with him in the Daily Echo proves he only thinks of women as T&A.

What you mean when Casey asked a question and he told her the truth, the truth that everyone out here has been saying for ages now LOL

How dare he not lie to someone's face to make them feel better eh.

[jet]

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

Oh the hyperbole! Those extravagant 'repeatedly's' and 'every's. What drama and histrionics! :joker:
He's taking a bit of teasing for being miserable and a killjoy and it seems to me he knows that full well and plays on it.

The thought of Jim Davidson being bullied is even more hilarious. :joker:
With his history! Give over!

[CaudleHalbard]

The idea of Jim being bullied is hilarious! :D

He is in there to change public perception of him as an awful man... so he is holding back.

[Slevin]

bullying gets thrown around more than Peyton Manning breaking records for TD passes.

[Ellen]

Dont blame him, who the hell wants to listen to a load of silly women who do not nothing but bitch.

[joeysteele]

Dont blame him, who the hell wants to listen to a load of silly women who do not nothing but bitch.

Totally agree Ellen.

[Seraphim]

He's ostracised himself, and made plenty of snide comments too. It's a lost cause trying to make folk aware of that... It's gotten to the point where if he punched her in the gob some would say she'd flung her face in front of his fist :idc:

I agree that when he's not in the mood for something, he doesn't make an effort for the sake of the group, so in that sense he is isolating himself, however looking at it another way, he's of an age where he doesn't feel it necessary to put on an act just to fit it, and he doesn't really see why he should, since he feels that no-one likes him anyway. And in any case - why should he put on an act to fit in with people who are putting on a different act in order to get votes on a dubious reality show? The concept is ridiculous to me. He obviously isn't a big party animal, and prefers to sit and chat quietly rather than join in with a bunch of people who're having a noisy carry-one and acting like kids. They're just acting up for the cameras, and it would wear thin PDQ.

I agree that he makes snide comments, but I prefer that than bitching behind people's backs, overt hatred and yelling foul language in other people's faces.

You are right about the fact that it's got to the point where a lot of his behaviour is easy to excuse because of the way he has been treated. It has polarised opinion: hence this thread.

I find Jim by far the most interesting character in the house. He intrigues me because he's smart, strategic and plays his cards close to his chest. Do I like him? I don't know yet, because I have been influenced by what I have read in the papers. I have, however, very much liked some facets of his personality and out of everyone in the house, I think he has earned more of my respect. Obviously if he socked someone in the face, he'd lose that respect, but until then, I'm keeping an open mind.

[Seraphim]

Dont blame him, who the hell wants to listen to a load of silly women who do not nothing but bitch.

If Jim had made that comment, he'd have been accused of being sexist, chauvinistic and misogynistic. In my view, if you don't want that sort of comment made then you shouldn't invite it in your behaviour.

I agree with you. I don't want to listen to them either.

[Slevin]

http://i43.tinypic.com/291n5fo.png

[Rachael1904]

I would say a group of people sitting around bitching about one person repeatedly for two weeks and analysing every minor thing that they do, making a point of winding them up and harassing them is bullying if you put that on paper in front of me without me knowing who the people involved were. I think because Jim hasn't been crying, has an unpleasant past and because he's a man and the people bitching about him are women; people are refusing to call it bullying, but to me it looks like bullying on paper. Whether or not he feels bullied, I have no idea.

The more I watch CBB, the more I am inclined to agree. Luisa is being a spiteful ringleader and Linda, well, what a sour hag. I really feel sorry for the guy...he can do no right.

[Z]

The people who are openly laughing at the idea of Jim possibly being bullied are not being objective about this because they hate Jim so much. For the umpteenth time: I think Jim is a horrible man. But whether or not someone is a victim of bullying doesn't hinge on whether or not you like them as a person. Adults can be bullied. Anyone can be bullied. It doesn't matter what your age, post code, gender or personality is, anyone can be bullied by anyone for any reason. There is a group of people who are making a point of excluding one individual, Jim. And if you don't think that proves anything, then why are they doing it to Liz too? Because they're acting in a mob manner. What Linda doesn't seem to realise is that if she's successful in getting Jim evicted, or if Liz finally goes, they're all going to have to start nominating each other anyway. She'd better hope that Sam goes in this next eviction or they're all going to be turning on her sooner or later.

[Slevin]

i dont hate anyone. that a lil too far for me lol.

[Ammi]

The people who are openly laughing at the idea of Jim possibly being bullied are not being objective about this because they hate Jim so much. For the umpteenth time: I think Jim is a horrible man. But whether or not someone is a victim of bullying doesn't hinge on whether or not you like them as a person. Adults can be bullied. Anyone can be bullied. It doesn't matter what your age, post code, gender or personality is, anyone can be bullied by anyone for any reason. There is a group of people who are making a point of excluding one individual, Jim. And if you don't think that proves anything, then why are they doing it to Liz too? Because they're acting in a mob manner. What Linda doesn't seem to realise is that if she's successful in getting Jim evicted, or if Liz finally goes, they're all going to have to start nominating each other anyway. She'd better hope that Sam goes in this next eviction or they're all going to be turning on her sooner or later.

..I don't think that's true though..I did read through this thread this morning and thought a lot about whether it was actually bullying because I would never condone that with anyone...the thing is that Jim equally excludes himself from the group and to an extent, I think Liz does...there are also clashes of personality and often in a group there can be one person who isn't liked as well by several people because of there own personality...but that isn't bullying...I guess that I go on how it's defined in the schools I have worked in and in the first instance, someone has to feel bullied...I presume that Jim doesn't if it hasn't been shown..?...

[Z]

..I don't think that's true though..I did read through this thread this morning and thought a lot about whether it was actually bullying because I would never condone that with anyone...the thing is that Jim equally excludes himself from the group and to an extent, I think Liz does...there are also clashes of personality and often in a group there can be one person who isn't liked as well by several people because of there own personality...but that isn't bullying...I guess that I go on how it's defined in the schools I have worked in and in the first instance, someone has to feel bullied...I presume that Jim doesn't if it hasn't been shown..?...

So what would you call it when there's a big group of people all hating on an individual? Regardless of who a person is or what they've done, I do not like to see somebody be excluded and spend vast amounts of time on their own because a group of people have made it that way.

[Ammi]

So what would you call it when there's a big group of people all hating on an individual? Regardless of who a person is or what they've done, I do not like to see somebody be excluded and spend vast amounts of time on their own because a group of people have made it that way.

..but he's excluding himself, they're not people who he wants to spend time with, especially when they're being a bit loud so he removes himself from the group.. and I'm not criticising him for that in that it is his choice to do that but it's also something that everyone going into the house would expect..although it's always a mixed and varied house, some people by nature are more tolerant than others, Lionel was much more tolerant... but I don't think Jim is ..

[Seraphim]

No, but she has said over and over again how Jim's sexist and chauvinistic and hates her because he's never met a woman like her who's strong and independent and stands up for what she believes in and doesn't take any ****. Besides, you said nominations don't have anything to do with it.
!

I really like Luisa, but she acts in a very infantile way all the time: pouting, speaking in a baby voice; squealing and giggling; attention-seeking; being deliberately annoying; playing at sex games; making willie/boob jokes; only seeing things from her own perspective; not being able to handle criticism, etc. If someone like that turned round and told me that they were a "strong independent woman" after they'd pissed me off, I'd probably sneer too and make a scornful comment and I am not an alpha male product of an older, different generation like Jim.

She says he "gets on my tits" because he's not into her games. Linda was the one who started the accusations of misogynism and sexism, and Luisa is very easily influenced by Linda. I haven't really seen him being particularly so, but men of his generation usually are, even though they don't see it in themselves, so it's hardly surprising and not a cardinal sin. There was a guy on this forum who told me that Jim should rise above Linda's behaviour because she was menopausal and females have hormonal issues. That, for me, is patronising and sexist, and if Jim was coming out with stuff like that then I'd be absolutely in agreement with Luisa and Linda. It still wouldn't excuse their behaviour or the bitching and bullying.

I can't wait to see what happens next, but I wish Linda was out of the picture, because she has too much influence over Luisa, and she's got Jim scared to open his mouth in case he puts his foot in it.

[Z]

..but he's excluding himself, they're not people who he wants to spend time with, especially when they're being a bit loud so he removes himself from the group.. and I'm not criticising him for that in that it is his choice to do that but it's also something that everyone going into the house would expect..although it's always a mixed and varied house, some people by nature are more tolerant than others, Lionel was much more tolerant... but I don't think Jim is ..

It's still being excluded though? He seems to get on just fine with people on a one on one basis, he was even laughing and joking with Linda the other night; Lee came out to see him and speak to him when all the others were bitching about Jim's nomination (why weren't they bitching about Liz's nomination for Sam? Because she was there in the room with them... Sam then waited until she was with Casey, Ollie and Dappy before she ripped into Liz) - they have a group mentality and Jim has been their main target from very early on because Linda has portrayed him as an awful person (which I have no doubt he is) when in the house, Jim hasn't demonstrated or lived up to any of the bad qualities Linda has mentioned; which in my eyes makes Linda the one with the problem, not Jim. Maybe she's absolutely right about him, but he hasn't done anything in the house to deserve the torrent of abuse she's been spouting off about him in my opinion. If you know that a group of people all dislike you, why would you spend time around them? He knows they all nominated him because it was played for them all to see/hear. Why would he sit with them?

[Seraphim]

The people who are openly laughing at the idea of Jim possibly being bullied are not being objective about this because they hate Jim so much. For the umpteenth time: I think Jim is a horrible man. But whether or not someone is a victim of bullying doesn't hinge on whether or not you like them as a person. Adults can be bullied. Anyone can be bullied. It doesn't matter what your age, post code, gender or personality is, anyone can be bullied by anyone for any reason. There is a group of people who are making a point of excluding one individual, Jim. And if you don't think that proves anything, then why are they doing it to Liz too? Because they're acting in a mob manner..

:worship:

[Ammi]

It's still being excluded though? He seems to get on just fine with people on a one on one basis, he was even laughing and joking with Linda the other night; Lee came out to see him and speak to him when all the others were bitching about Jim's nomination (why weren't they bitching about Liz's nomination for Sam? Because she was there in the room with them... Sam then waited until she was with Casey, Ollie and Dappy before she ripped into Liz) - they have a group mentality and Jim has been their main target from very early on because Linda has portrayed him as an awful person (which I have no doubt he is) when in the house, Jim hasn't demonstrated or lived up to any of the bad qualities Linda has mentioned; which in my eyes makes Linda the one with the problem, not Jim. Maybe she's absolutely right about him, but he hasn't done anything in the house to deserve the torrent of abuse she's been spouting off about him in my opinion. If you know that a group of people all dislike you, why would you spend time around them? He knows they all nominated him because it was played for them all to see/hear. Why would he sit with them?

..you're not being excluded if you exclude yourself though...yeah, it doesn't show us anyone often going out to him..(although I'm sure they have sometimes done it..?..)...and saying, come on Jim, come and join us... but he can just as easily be with them as not be with them, that's his choice...and it is often the case that if one person consistently does exclude themselves from a group and there are people there with a tendency to 'bitch' then that's the person who will get bitched about...I do agree that there are a few who instigate the bitching, but I don't think that Linda has 'turned' people against him, I don't think that she has that power..and I don't think that it's bullying either....

[Z]

..you're not being excluded if you exclude yourself though...yeah, it doesn't show us anyone often going out to him..(although I'm sure they have sometimes done it..?..)...and saying, come on Jim, come and join us... but he can just as easily be with them as not be with them, that's his choice...and it is often the case that if one person consistently does exclude themselves from a group and there are people there with a tendency to 'bitch' then that's the person who will get bitched about...I do agree that there are a few who instigate the bitching, but I don't think that Linda has 'turned' people against him, I don't think that she has that power..and I don't think that it's bullying either....

Jim hasn't always made a point of being by himself, it's only recently he's made a point of spending lots of time alone. So I would say they excluded him and he didn't bother trying to change their minds about him. Just because he's by himself shouldn't mean it's therefore acceptable to bitch about him and turn him into the house scapegoat. Yes Linda has more than valid reasons to hate him, yes Luisa and Jim do not get on; but none of the rest of them have had any serious problem with Jim in there, they're going along with Linda and Luisa because there's safety in numbers when nominating - if six people nominate Jim, he can only nominate two of them back and I'm convinced that Ollie, Sam, Lee and Casey felt safe in the knowledge that they could all nominate Jim and Liz and that Jim would pick Luisa and Linda and they'd all be safe. Sam being up was a total curveball and that is what prompted the bitter reaction to Jim and Liz's nominations. They think they have Jim all worked out and then he goes and proves them all wrong.

Linda on one of the very first nights was telling people that she hated Jim from before her time in the house. Did Jim do the same to her? No, he didn't. If I knew Linda and Jim personally I think I'd probably be on Linda's side because I would likely know the ins and outs of what happened between them, but all I see in the house is Linda holding a grudge that she won't talk about and Jim keeping out of her way because she's not interested in making amends or putting it to rest. For that reason, I think she's horrible. She could have let this go, she could have left it behind, she is the only one who is capable of putting their feud to an end because clearly she's the one upset by it, Jim isn't really that bothered, so what is she hoping to achieve by hating Jim for so long? She's obviously not moved on from it, does she not feel like making peace with the situation would help her heal? I just don't understand her motivations.

[joeysteele]

Jim hasn't always made a point of being by himself, it's only recently he's made a point of spending lots of time alone. So I would say they excluded him and he didn't bother trying to change their minds about him. Just because he's by himself shouldn't mean it's therefore acceptable to bitch about him and turn him into the house scapegoat. Yes Linda has more than valid reasons to hate him, yes Luisa and Jim do not get on; but none of the rest of them have had any serious problem with Jim in there, they're going along with Linda and Luisa because there's safety in numbers when nominating - if six people nominate Jim, he can only nominate two of them back and I'm convinced that Ollie, Sam, Lee and Casey felt safe in the knowledge that they could all nominate Jim and Liz and that Jim would pick Luisa and Linda and they'd all be safe. Sam being up was a total curveball and that is what prompted the bitter reaction to Jim and Liz's nominations. They think they have Jim all worked out and then he goes and proves them all wrong.

Linda on one of the very first nights was telling people that she hated Jim from before her time in the house. Did Jim do the same to her? No, he didn't. If I knew Linda and Jim personally I think I'd probably be on Linda's side because I would likely know the ins and outs of what happened between them, but all I see in the house is Linda holding a grudge that she won't talk about and Jim keeping out of her way because she's not interested in making amends or putting it to rest. For that reason, I think she's horrible. She could have let this go, she could have left it behind, she is the only one who is capable of putting their feud to an end because clearly she's the one upset by it, Jim isn't really that bothered, so what is she hoping to achieve by hating Jim for so long? She's obviously not moved on from it, does she not feel like making peace with the situation would help her heal? I just don't understand her motivations.

I think anyone trying seriously to would likely be driven mad trying to understand Linda Nolan or in fact her Sister Coleen when she was in.

A really great post Zee, I have said loads as to Jim and Linda on various threads this CBB series, so won't add anything here or to all you have said above and the previous posts above that one too.
Except to say that I agree with near every word of them all.

[Slevin]

shiiiiiiiiiiiiit some of em were like wheres Jim when the spread was out. i would of liked him to sit down and enjoy the food instead of coming out for 10-20 seconds instead of moaning and going in the bedroom acting like he was gonna sleep.

[Patricia4]

Zee love your posts you are spot on.

[joeysteele]

Zee love your posts you are spot on.

They are Patricia4, he near always makes me think about things too. Really good and fair posts.

[Seraphim]

..I don't think that's true though..I did read through this thread this morning and thought a lot about whether it was actually bullying because I would never condone that with anyone...the thing is that Jim equally excludes himself from the group and to an extent, I think Liz does...there are also clashes of personality and often in a group there can be one person who isn't liked as well by several people because of there own personality...but that isn't bullying...I guess that I go on how it's defined in the schools I have worked in and in the first instance, someone has to feel bullied...I presume that Jim doesn't if it hasn't been shown..?...

This is a very, very worrying post from someone who works in schools. As a school pupil, I witnessed serious bullying issues: I even stepped in and stopped some of them myself. People who are being bullied will often try to act as if they don't care, and may even deny that they are being bullied because they don't want to admit it - even to themselves. One person in my school who was so badly bullied that he had to take time off school after a dart was embedded in his thigh muscle, yet he would laugh and pretend it was a joke, and I am sure he never told his parents that the injury was a result of the bullying.

Professionally, as a teacher who specialised in supporting youngsters who are struggling socially, I had to support and intervene in many, many cases of bullying. It takes all forms: from subtle things, like "accidentally" omitting someone when giving out books, or playfully cuffing younger kids around the ear (hard); bitching about people behind their backs; ganging up on people who are new, different, etc. to much more serious issues of hounding someone relentlessly with undermining comments and physically beating someone - sometimes to the point of killing them.

What is happening to Jim is typical bullying, and if you cannot see and hear that he is upset by it, then I wonder about your ability to spot it in schools where you might work. Please go to Wikipedia and read the entry on bullying. Bullying is about the behaviour of those who are doing it.

[Ammi]

Jim hasn't always made a point of being by himself, it's only recently he's made a point of spending lots of time alone. So I would say they excluded him and he didn't bother trying to change their minds about him. Just because he's by himself shouldn't mean it's therefore acceptable to bitch about him and turn him into the house scapegoat. Yes Linda has more than valid reasons to hate him, yes Luisa and Jim do not get on; but none of the rest of them have had any serious problem with Jim in there, they're going along with Linda and Luisa because there's safety in numbers when nominating - if six people nominate Jim, he can only nominate two of them back and I'm convinced that Ollie, Sam, Lee and Casey felt safe in the knowledge that they could all nominate Jim and Liz and that Jim would pick Luisa and Linda and they'd all be safe. Sam being up was a total curveball and that is what prompted the bitter reaction to Jim and Liz's nominations. They think they have Jim all worked out and then he goes and proves them all wrong.

Linda on one of the very first nights was telling people that she hated Jim from before her time in the house. Did Jim do the same to her? No, he didn't. If I knew Linda and Jim personally I think I'd probably be on Linda's side because I would likely know the ins and outs of what happened between them, but all I see in the house is Linda holding a grudge that she won't talk about and Jim keeping out of her way because she's not interested in making amends or putting it to rest. For that reason, I think she's horrible. She could have let this go, she could have left it behind, she is the only one who is capable of putting their feud to an end because clearly she's the one upset by it, Jim isn't really that bothered, so what is she hoping to achieve by hating Jim for so long? She's obviously not moved on from it, does she not feel like making peace with the situation would help her heal? I just don't understand her motivations.
..I don't like Linda either and whatever it is that is between them, I agree should be let go of because in the end that sort of thing doesn't hurt anyone else, it only hurts yourself and I think that's very plain in Linda..that she's a very miserable person and the fact that she holds on to so much could be part of the reason..I know she's had sad things happen in her life but then she should have taken something from them, in that life is precious and short and really too short to hold onto any bad feelings, which will eat at your heart...

...him detaching and excluding himself recently..?...hmmm, my take on that or a possibility is that people don't know how they will be perceived by the public and I think none more so than Jim because of his last reality TV appearance but recently they have a very good indication with the boos for Luise and Linda and cheers for Jim, so I think that has let him know who is unpopular and I think it's fair to say that with Luisa because of how much of a party girl she is, he's detaching himself from all of that..with Linda, as you say..they do sometimes find a level to talk to each other when they're on their own but he stays away when she's socialising with the others....

..I do agree with most of what you say...(I usually do...)...but I have a slightly different perspective of it and I just don't agree that any bullying is going on...I hope it isn't but I think it's such a serious thing that if there was, we would have to see more than just the highlights and what we're shown to form that opinion....

[Ammi]

This is a very, very worrying post from someone who works in schools. When I was at school, I witnessed serious bullying issues: I even stepped in and stopped some of them myself. People who are being bullied will always try to act as if they don't care, and may even deny that they are being bullied because they don't want to admit it. One person in my school who was so badly bullied that he had to take time off school after a dart was embedded in his thigh muscle, yet he would laugh and pretend it was a joke, and I am sure he never told his parents that the injury was a result of the bullying. Later, as a teacher who specialised in supporting youngsters who are struggling socially, I had to support and intervene in many, many cases of bullying. It takes all forms: subtle things, like "accidentally" omitting someone when giving out books, or playfully cuffing younger kids around the ear (hard); bitching about people behind their backs; ganging up on people who are different, etc. What is happening to Jim is typical bullying, and if you cannot see and hear that he is upset by it, then I wonder about your ability to spot it in schools where you might work.

..but you are talking about actual cases of bullying though, which of course happens and is very serious but there are also often 'clashes of personality' and other circumstances of people not getting on which are not bullying...it's because bullying is so serious that we can't assume that everything is or things are that if they're not....

[Seraphim]

..but you are talking about actual cases of bullying though, which of course happens and is very serious but there are also often 'clashes of personality' and other circumstances of people not getting on which are not bullying...it's because bullying is so serious that we can't assume that everything is or things are that if they're not....

And what is happening to Jim is an actual case of bullying. I suggested that you read the Wikipedia entry. Here's an extract:

"One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power. Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment... and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Justifications and rationalizations for such behavior sometimes include differences of class, race, religion, gender, sexuality, appearance, behavior, strength, size or ability. If bullying is done by a group, it is called mobbing.... Bullying ranges from simple one-on-one bullying to more complex bullying in which the bully may have one or more "lieutenants" who may seem to be willing to assist the primary bully in his or her bullying activities."

[Slevin]

wiki sometimes cant be taken serious since anyone can go in there and change something. reason why it would be stupid for the most part for students to use that as a reference.

[jet]

..you're not being excluded if you exclude yourself though...yeah, it doesn't show us anyone often going out to him..(although I'm sure they have sometimes done it..?..)...and saying, come on Jim, come and join us... but he can just as easily be with them as not be with them, that's his choice...and it is often the case that if one person consistently does exclude themselves from a group and there are people there with a tendency to 'bitch' then that's the person who will get bitched about...I do agree that there are a few who instigate the bitching, but I don't think that Linda has 'turned' people against him, I don't think that she has that power..and I don't think that it's bullying either....

I love your posts Ammi and agree 100%

Jim Davidson has made a career out of bullying and sniggering (and not just on stage) at ethnic minorities, wheelchair users, cancer sufferers, women and
homosexuals.
Why would anyone give a rat's ass that the HM's don't fawn all over him when he makes no effort himself? Why would anyone give a rat's ass if they bitch about him? He's given out a 1000 times worse over they years and he knows it.
He beat up his wife and thumped her in the stomach with a barbell and people are sorry for him because some women are sniping at and teasing him (and he has done his fair share of that himself.)
He excludes himself from the group (men included) and they are supposed to care that they don't have the pleasure of his miserable company.

With a nasty soul like he had/has he's not exactly a poor sensitive type, is he?

Who freaking cares.

[Seraphim]

There are studies and books available, and many different articles online for anyone who is interested.

I obviously have a particular knowledge of this area, having worked with the victims of bullying for years - in mainstream education, special educational units or establishments and a psychiatric hospital.

[Ammi]

And what is happening to Jim is an actual case of bullying. I suggested that you read the Wikipedia entry. Here's an extract:

"One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power. Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment... and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Justifications and rationalizations for such behavior sometimes include differences of class, race, religion, gender, sexuality, appearance, behavior, strength, size or ability. If bullying is done by a group, it is called mobbing."

..I think that we're going to have to agree to disagree on the 'bullying' because I don't see Jim being excluded from anything, let alone being singled out for any 'difference' in him as you've posted...he's excluded himself recently and I'm not saying that certain housemates don't bitch because they do, I can't think of many BBs where housemates don't do that in that pressure cooker environment but I still don't see anything that could be described as bullying....

[Ammi]

There are studies and books available, and many different articles online for anyone who is interested.

I obviously have a particular knowledge of this area, having worked with the victims of bullying for years - in mainstream education, special educational units or establishments and a psychiatric hospital.

..I bow to your personal experiences with bullying because it's a very serious thing, I only work in a primary school so physical bullying doesn't play such a big part, it's more emotional bullying and in the experiences I have had, only a relative few occasions have been actual bullying...mostly it's clashes of personality and both sides are at fault...

[Slevin]

i was bullied in 3rd grade cause i was the new kid. on the first day when it was the end of the school day i grabbed that bitch ass mo fo buy the shirt slammed him against the locker and told him not to mess with me again and that was that. just saying.:joker:

[Ammi]

i was bullied in 3rd grade cause i was the new kid. on the first day when it was the end of the school day i grabbed that bitch ass mo fo buy the shirt slammed him against the locker and told him not to mess with me again and that was that. just saying.:joker:


..you badass wild child..:laugh:...that was the way to do it, then...if only it was that simple for everyone....but I'm glad that it didn't carry with you...

[Slevin]

the funny thing is i was alright with the dude after that. he was just being a dick trying to be hard ass for whatever reason.

[Ammi]

the funny thing is i was alright with the dude after that. he was just being a dick trying to be hard ass for whatever reason.

...yeah, maybe he thought that it was the thing to do to the 'new kid', I don't know really and it's hard to say whether it would have continued but I'm glad for you that it didn't, it's not something that anyone should have to experience...

[Seraphim]

I love your posts Ammi and agree 100%

Jim Davidson has made a career out of bullying and sniggering (and not just on stage) at ethnic minorities, wheelchair users, cancer sufferers, women and
homosexuals.
Why would anyone give a rat's ass that the HM's don't fawn all over him when he makes no effort himself? Why would anyone give a rat's ass if they bitch about him? He's given out a 1000 times worse over they years and he knows it.
He beat up his wife and thumped her in the stomach with a barbell and people are sorry for him because some women are sniping at and teasing him (and he has done his fair share of that himself.)
He excludes himself from the group (men included) and they are supposed to care that they don't have the pleasure of his miserable company.

With a nasty soul like he had/has he's not exactly a poor sensitive type, is he?

Who freaking cares.

If you feel that the bullying he is experiencing now is some sort of payback for all the jokes he's made in the past, then that's your prerogative. I don't. What I do think is appropriate is what Blaize did when he met Jim Davidson.. You can read about it here:

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2011/mar/06/jim-davidson-stand-up-be-counted

As far as the allegations of historic crimes - people are innocent until they are proven guilty, and there are two sides to every story. A woman I know thought she had a violent husband, but actually she was more violent than he was. It was always her bullying, carping, relentless, critical behaviour which started the arguments and after she had goaded him into losing his rag, she'd act like a victim. She did it to me once: thumping me around the head in an unprovoked attack, then when I put an arm up to shield myself she accused me of hitting her. I am in no way saying that Jim Davidson is not a wife beater. I am saying that we do not know the full story, and he should be charged and given the right to a fair trial before anyone judges him.

[Ammi]

If you feel that the bullying he is experiencing now is some sort of payback for all the jokes he's made in the past, then that's your prerogative. I don't. What I do think is appropriate is what Blaize did when he met Jim Davidson.. You can read about it here:

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2011/mar/06/jim-davidson-stand-up-be-counted

As far as the allegations of historic crimes - people are innocent until they are proven guilty, and there are two sides to every story. A woman I know thought she had a violent husband, but actually she was more violent than he was. It was always her bullying, carping, relentless, critical behaviour which started the arguments and after she had goaded him into losing his rag, she'd act like a victim. She did it to me once: thumping me around the head in an unprovoked attack, then when I put an arm up to shield myself she accused me of hitting her. I am in no way saying that Jim Davidson is not a wife beater. I am saying that we do not know the full story, and he should be charged and given the right to a fair trial before anyone judges him.

..the member didn't say anything about bullying being a 'payback', just didn't agree that there was any bullying taking place, and I don't see it either...

[Seraphim]

...yeah, maybe he thought that it was the thing to do to the 'new kid', I don't know really and it's hard to say whether it would have continued but I'm glad for you that it didn't, it's not something that anyone should have to experience...

Bullying can and does happen in primary schools, and even in nurseries, although at the nursery level it is pretty unsophisticated.

I was bullied in primary school by someone two years below me who was physically heavier than I was, even though I was taller. For no reason at all, she started following me around every interval, pushing me around, hitting me, making nasty comments and getting her friends to gang up on me. Eventually, one day, when she had been pinching and hitting me, I pushed her away. She played the victim card and ran howling to her teacher: I got lectured and threatened in front of her class, and it was reported back to my parents, who lectured and threatened me more. I wasn't given a chance to explain or defend myself.

[Ammi]

Bullying can and does happen in primary schools, and even in nurseries, although at the nursery level it is pretty unsophisticated.

I was bullied in primary school by someone two years below me who was physically heavier than I was, even though I was taller. For no reason at all, she started following me around every interval, pushing me around, hitting me, making nasty comments and getting her friends to gang up on me. Eventually, one day, when she had been pinching and hitting me, I pushed her away. She played the victim card and ran howling to her teacher: I got lectured and threatened in front of her class, and it was reported back to my parents, who lectured and threatened me more. I wasn't given a chance to explain or defend myself.


..I'm not saying that bullying doesn't happen in primary schools just that not everything is bullying and can quite often be clashes of characters..in the case of Jim in the BB house, I don't see anything that would be bullying...obviously we are seeing things differently, if you do...anyway, I'm going to bow out of this thread because I'm just really repeating the same thing...and I was only really giving my opinion on comments about Jim being 'bullied', which imo, he isn't...

[Macie Lightfoot]

She says he "gets on my tits" because he's not into her games. Linda was the one who started the accusations of misogynism and sexism, and Luisa is very easily influenced by Linda. I haven't really seen him being particularly so, but men of his generation usually are, even though they don't see it in themselves, so it's hardly surprising and not a cardinal sin. There was a guy on this forum who told me that Jim should rise above Linda's behaviour because she was menopausal and females have hormonal issues. That, for me, is patronising and sexist, and if Jim was coming out with stuff like that then I'd be absolutely in agreement with Luisa and Linda. It still wouldn't excuse their behaviour or the bitching and bullying.

Just because Luisa also thinks Jim is sexist doesn't mean she's being influenced by Linda. They both hate Jim for different reasons, and Luisa is a very girls-first type of a girl as has already been established. I don't know how you can say you haven't seen Jim be sexist when he turned "Luisa isn't going to cook for me or Lionel" into "I'll do the cooking for the boys only." And yesterday had his whole thing about dancing is for girls. I know you're saying there's no excuse for "bullying" (someone actively excluding themselves and victimizing themselves is NOT bullying) but I don't know why you're so quick to excuse blatant sexism and chalk it up to a generational thing. That's concerning to me, especially coming dr a woman.

[jet]

If you feel that the bullying he is experiencing now is some sort of payback for all the jokes he's made in the past, then that's your prerogative. I don't. What I do think is appropriate is what Blaize did when he met Jim Davidson.. You can read about it here:

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2011/mar/06/jim-davidson-stand-up-be-counted

As far as the allegations of historic crimes - people are innocent until they are proven guilty, and there are two sides to every story. A woman I know thought she had a violent husband, but actually she was more violent than he was. It was always her bullying, carping, relentless, critical behaviour which started the arguments and after she had goaded him into losing his rag, she'd act like a victim. She did it to me once: thumping me around the head in an unprovoked attack, then when I put an arm up to shield myself she accused me of hitting her. I am in no way saying that Jim Davidson is not a wife beater. I am saying that we do not know the full story, and he should be charged and given the right to a fair trial before anyone judges him.

No, I don't feel it is payback because I don't believe he is being bullied. Please don't put words into my mouth.
What I said was I don't freaking care about HM's sniping and bitching at him, because he hasn't exactly been blameless himself in the house.
He was a nasty man and I haven't seen any great change in him to make me think he is now a good man. Maybe he's mellowed with age, but I still don't like the person he was. If you want to spend hours on end championing such a man, that is your prerogative.
My stance is - who freaking cares is he isn't having a good time in the house. He wouldn't know what a good time was if it bit him on the ass. He's a spoiled, grumpy git spreading misery and getting back misery in return.

[Seraphim]

..the member didn't say anything about bullying being a 'payback', just didn't agree that there was any bullying taking place, and I don't see it either...

Perhaps it would be an idea to do a bit more reading on the subject then, because of your position in schools. Bullying does take place in primary schools and it can take insidious and subtle forms. A friend's daughter was driven close to suicide due to subtle (non-violent) mobbing type bullying which her teachers refused to acknowedge or deal with. My sister had to change the school her younger son attended because of relentless bullying which the teachers didn't recognise or acknowledge. The most common complaint of parents whose children are bullied at school is that the school either didn't acknowledge it or didn't do anything about it.

[Ammi]

Perhaps it would be an idea to do a bit more reading on the subject then, because of your position in schools. Bullying does take place in primary schools and it can take insidious and subtle forms. A friend's daughter was driven close to suicide due to subtle (non-violent) mobbing type bullying which her teachers refused to acknowedge or deal with. My sister had to change the school her younger son attended because of relentless bullying which the teachers didn't recognise or acknowledge. The most common complaint of parents whose children are bullied at school is that the school either didn't acknowledge it or didn't do anything about it.

..I do agree that bullying takes place in all kind of environments and primary schools as well but I also know that not every clash of personality is bullying as well..which are my feelings about the characters in the CBB house...I'm sorry for your own personal experiences and those of your friends and family, I'm sure you do a good job in trying to recognise bullying now in your job and acting on it, which is a great asset to the children at your school...

[Seraphim]

No, I don't feel it is payback because I don't believe he is being bullied. Please don't put words into my mouth.
What I said was I don't freaking care about HM's sniping and bitching at him, because he hasn't exactly been blameless himself in the house.
He was a nasty man and I haven't seen any great change in him to make me think he is now a good man. Maybe he's mellowed with age, but I still don't like the person he was. If you want to spend hours on end championing such a man, that is your prerogative.
My stance is - who freaking cares is he isn't having a good time in the house. He wouldn't know what a good time was if it bit him on the ass. He's a spoiled, grumpy git spreading misery and getting back misery in return.

What you said included this:

Why would anyone give a rat's ass if they bitch about him? He's given out a 1000 times worse over they years and he knows it.
He beat up his wife and thumped her in the stomach with a barbell

I am not championing Jim Davidson. I am discussing the issue of bullying, group dynamics, mobbing, manipulation, etc. I would say the same things no matter who the target was. We too, btw, are manipulated by BB, who manipulate our opinions by presenting their pick of clips in order to cause the maximum controversy. It's an evil genius, but that's what makes it compulsive viewing.

[jet]

She says he "gets on my tits" because he's not into her games. Linda was the one who started the accusations of misogynism and sexism, and Luisa is very easily influenced by Linda. I haven't really seen him being particularly so, but men of his generation usually are, even though they don't see it in themselves, so it's hardly surprising and not a cardinal sin. There was a guy on this forum who told me that Jim should rise above Linda's behaviour because she was menopausal and females have hormonal issues. That, for me, is patronising and sexist, and if Jim was coming out with stuff like that then I'd be absolutely in agreement with Luisa and Linda. It still wouldn't excuse their behaviour or the bitching and bullying.


Talk about twisting words! I was the man on this forum who said that Linda was going through the menopause (which she herself said) - and I said that I sympathized with that as I knew that at the time of the menopause women's hormones can make their emotions go all over the place. What is patronizing and sexist about that? It is a well documented, physical, medical FACT. I did not say that Jim should rise above it, just that I gave her a bit of a pass.

Then you use the generalization that men of Jim's generation are usually misogynist and sexist? That opinion is ageist and sexist. I am not much younger than Jim, and I am neither.
Talk about double standards!

[Seraphim]

Talk about twisting words! I was the man on this forum who said that Linda was going through the menopause (which she herself said) - and I said that I I sympathized with that as I knew that at the time of the menopause women's hormones can make their emotions be all over the place. What is patronizing and sexist about that? It is a well documented, physical, medical FACT. I did not say that Jim should rise above it, just that I gave her a bit of a pass.

Then you use the generalization that men of Jim's generation are usually misogynist and sexist? That opinion is ageist ans sexist. I am not much younger than Jim, and I am neither.
Talk about double standards!

Lol. Thanks for giving me the biggest laugh I've had today. :laugh3:

I told you at the time that I thought it was a patronising and insulting comment to make, lol. Just about every woman goes through the menopause and they can still hold down jobs, bring up families and jog along with all kinds of people in the workplace. The type of behaviour being exhibited by Linda is nothing to do with her "hormones".

[jet]

What you said included this:



I am not championing Jim Davidson. I am discussing the issue of bullying, group dynamics, mobbing, manipulation, etc. I would say the same things no matter who the victim was. We too, btw, are manipulated by BB, who manipulate our opinions by presenting their pick of clips in order to cause the maximum controversy. It's an evil genius, but that's what makes it compulsive viewing.

There is no bullying going on. Why are you so intent on making Jim Davidson into a victim?

[Slevin]

its Jim...

http://i42.tinypic.com/2vvmbz6.jpg

MAN!

[Seraphim]

..I do agree that bullying takes place in all kind of environments and primary schools as well but I also know that not every clash of personality is bullying as well..which are my feelings about the characters in the CBB house...I'm sorry for your own personal experiences and those of your friends and family, I'm sure you do a good job in trying to recognise bullying now in your job and acting on it, which is a great asset to the children at your school...

Thanks very much. That's kind of you to say. I hope that you might read a bit more about the issue. Primary school teachers have such an important role in children's development.

Of course, you're right. Every personality clash doesn't lead to bullying.The problem arises when one of the parties bolsters their strength by surrounding themselves with other people who will agree with them and join them in ganging up on another person.

Anyway - have a nice day.

[jet]

Lol. Thanks for giving me the biggest laugh I've had today. :laugh3:

I told you at the time that I thought it was a patronising and insulting comment to make, lol. Just about every woman goes through the menopause and they can still hold down jobs, bring up families and jog along with all kinds of people in the workplace. The type of behaviour being exhibited by Linda is nothing to do with her "hormones".

Well thanks for telling me that women can hold down jobs, bring up families etc while going through the menopause. I would never have known that. :rolleyes:
When I made the post about sympathizing with Linda it was at the time she broke down when Jim cruelly brought out the incident about Frank Carson's dressing room. I noticed that earlier in the programme she was flushed and fanning herself to cool down, which is a symptom of hormonal fluctuations. I was simply sympathizing that the cruel reveal came at a time when she may have been feeling under the weather. So shoot me for being insulting (in your opinion) on one occasion.

Meanwhile you spend hours on end trying to convince everyone that poor Jim is a victim of bullying (which was suggested could be caused by his sexist remarks) but that's okay because his misogyny and sexism is just typical of a man of his generation so he should be given a pass. Hmmm...

[Seraphim]

There is no bullying going on. Why are you so intent on making Jim Davidson into a victim?

I changed my post to the word "target", which is a more appropriate word to use. I'm not intent on making Jim Davidson into anything. That is the point I have been trying to make. Bullying isn't defined by the target. It is about the behaviour of the bullies and the power/influence which is held/exerted by the instigators.

Let's just leave the topic of bullying. It is an interesting topic but I am viewing it from a more academic/behavioural viewpoint. Plus, on a more personal note - I really hate bullies. Rest assured that if Jim Davidson was behaving like Linda is, I'd utterly detest him.

[Miranda123]

I hate the over use of the word 'bullying' he's a grown man who could stick up for himself but chooses not too..

I think he chooses not to because if Jim had a row with Luisa in the same way that she had with Lionel, it would not be pretty, and he knows that

She fights with her mouth like a man, cause she knows nothing could happen, she uses fighting talk, knowing the men will back down (ie. dappy, lionel etc)
Jim walks away cause he would never back down to that vitriolic bull that comes out of her annoyingly whiney mouth

[Miranda123]

Well thanks for telling me that women can hold down jobs, bring up families etc while going through the menopause. I would never have known that. :rolleyes:
When I made the post about sympathizing with Linda it was at the time she broke down when Jim cruelly brought out the incident about Frank Carson's dressing room. I noticed that earlier in the programme she was flushed and fanning herself to cool down, which is a symptom of hormonal fluctuations. I was simply sympathizing that the cruel reveal came at a time when she may have been feeling under the weather. So shoot me for being insulting (in your opinion) on one occasion.

Meanwhile you spend hours on end trying to convince everyone that poor Jim is a victim of bullying (which was suggested could be caused by his sexist remarks) but that's okay because his misogyny and sexism is just typical of a man of his generation so he should be given a pass. Hmmm...

I think she has been under the weather, but that doesnt excuse her gathering everyone around her to ensure they all hate Jim
The row they had years ago was because her husband was stealing from Jims best mate, who else wouldnt be annoyed
he should not have brought it up EVER (after a mans death) but he's not the most intelligent man on the block, she should have shut up and stopped picking on a guy who had a secret on her
I really cant stand a thief, so although it was him and not her, her excusing it by saying he only gave a guilty plea to save his family from stress was bull, he was CAUGHT ON CAMERA after money had been going missing all week!!

Again, none of that is her fault, but shut up about it!

[jet]

I changed my post to the word "target", which is a more appropriate word to use. I'm not intent on making Jim Davidson into anything. That is the point I have been trying to make. Bullying isn't defined by the target. It is about the behaviour of the bullies and the power/influence which is held/exerted by the instigators.

Let's just leave the topic of bullying. It is an interesting topic but I am viewing it from a more academic/behavioural viewpoint. Plus, on a more personal note - I really hate bullies. Rest assured that if Jim Davidson was behaving like Linda is, I'd utterly detest him.

So you don't detest the man with the long history of racism, homophobia, sexism, wife beating, (which he admitted) which are all forms of bullying - yet you detest Linda for sniping at and disliking that man (who is not a helpless child and sniped back) on a reality TV show.

Do you seriously believe a man with his history of nastiness is incapable of giving it back 100 - fold if he so chose? He is holding back because he is playing the game of Mr. Innocent Victim - and you are falling for it.

Now THAT is funny. :laugh::laugh:

[jet]

I think she has been under the weather, but that doesnt excuse her gathering everyone around her to ensure they all hate Jim
The row they had years ago was because her husband was stealing from Jims best mate, who else wouldnt be annoyed
he should not have brought it up EVER (after a mans death) but he's not the most intelligent man on the block, she should have shut up and stopped picking on a guy who had a secret on her
I really cant stand a thief, so although it was him and not her, her excusing it by saying he only gave a guilty plea to save his family from stress was bull, he was CAUGHT ON CAMERA after money had been going missing all week!!

Again, none of that is her fault, but shut up about it!

Nobody can make anyone hate another person. How exactly do you do that? Nobody in that house is naive or stupid as far as I can see. They can work things out for themselves with their own brains and eyes and ears and if they like Jim then they are not going to stop liking him because Linda has a grudge against him. I don't know where the ridiculous idea came from that Linda influenced them all to nominate him.
They have been nominating him from the very first nom, which was in the diary room and in private. If Linda tried to influence nearly them all in that short time and they were afraid not to nom him in private then she is some kind of ultra superwoman.
The fact is, we have no idea whatsoever if Linda made even one person dislike him or if they just don't like him full stop. Common sense would indicate the latter.
Linda is as sour faced as Jim and I don't like her either, but come on.