What is your view on an Independent Scotland?

[Glenn.]

Just wondering what everyone's view on Scotland becoming independent?

[Firewire]

No no no all kinds of no

[Marc]

I don't care what so ever

[Smithy]

Marc [2]

[Jordan.]

Marc [3]

[Firewire]

literally no one in scotland wants it except the egg who's the first minister bye it'll be a no vote anyway (hopefully)

[joeysteele]

I love Scotland and the Scottish people. It is always the place I tear off to to re-charge my batteries so to speak.

I would be really sad if Scotland were to vote for independence,however it is a Nation steeped in fantastic history and I do believe it could be a great success in all ways if it was independent too.

I really hope that the Scots will vote to remain in the UK but if they voted for independence then I would hope they really do make a great success of it.

[Kyle]

I'm half Scottish but having spent most of my life in England I don't really feel like I have any connection with the country other than we share a Union and I have family and a partner that live there. I will be sad for the sake that we have accomplished so much together but hey ho if they want to leave so be it.

[Marc]

literally no one in scotland wants it except the egg who's the first minister bye it'll be a no vote anyway (hopefully)

I'm sure some do

[the truth]

I dont want them to leave and become independent. but think the scots would have a chance due to their education system, legal system, political system, natural resources and strong infrastructure. the scots I know and those Ive heard discuss and debate this are very very well informed. they will look at all the plusses and minusses. The pro scottish independents want a british army and they want to keep the pound. I think the political leaders saying no to the pound is amassive massive politicial own goal.

scotland has gotten far stronger and richer since devolution, whilst northern ireland and wales have gotten poorer. this needs to be understood. they have a strong economy and its thriving in some key sectors. the scots are hugely respected with good links across the world. this will help their trade prospects. they have a unique identity and I think they would become a successful small nation. they would lose a seat at the top table of world affairs and wars and the endless power games. but I dont think they care about that. they know the benefits of europe too. I think they have the ability to run their own country successfully. the same cannot be said for northern ireland and wales.

clearly they hate what thatcher did and they fear the same will keep happenning again. she was evil pure and simple.
I really think this move to independence is likely to happen one day.

[Kyle]

Most of my Scottish family are unionists (Rangers fans) so I doubt they would vote yes but as for the rest of the country only time will tell.

[joeysteele]

I'm half Scottish but having spent most of my life in England I don't really feel like I have any connection with the country other than we share a Union and I have family and a partner that live there. I will be sad for the sake that we have accomplished so much together but hey ho if they want to leave so be it.

Kyle,I am half Scottish too, my Dad is Scottish and all his ancestry is from Scotland.
You and I share the same Birthday too,what coincidences.:joker:

[Redway]

Marc [4].

[thesheriff443]

Kyle,I am half Scottish too, my Dad is Scottish and all his ancestry is from Scotland.
You and I share the same Birthday too,what coincidences.:joker:

you will both be wearing kilts next!:joker:

[Kyle]

Kyle,I am half Scottish too, my Dad is Scottish and all his ancestry is from Scotland.
You and I share the same Birthday too,what coincidences.:joker:

Haha this is getting ridiculous now my Dad is the Jock aswell. :hugesmile:

Your not a Campbell too are yer? That really would be a coincidence :joker:

[Kyle]

you will both be wearing kilts next!:joker:

Feck off Sassanach :joker:

[joeysteele]

Haha this is getting ridiculous now my Dad is the Jock aswell. :hugesmile:

Your not a Campbell too are yer? That really would be a coincidence :joker:

My Dad's Mum,(my grandmother), was a Campbell,I have Campbell cousins,so in a way another coincidence.

:joker:By the way Sheriff,I do actually own a kilt and have worn it at New Years parties.:joker:

[thesheriff443]

Feck off Sassanach :joker:

close the m8 I say:joker:

[thesheriff443]

My Dad's Mum,(my grandmother), was a Campbell,I have Campbell cousins,so in a way another coincidence.

:joker:By the way Sheriff,I do actually own a kilt and have worn it at New Years parties.:joker:

its a cold wind that blows:joker:

[Kyle]

My Dad's Mum,(my grandmother), was a Campbell,I have Campbell cousins,so in a way another coincidence.

:joker:By the way Sheriff,I do actually own a kilt and have worn it at New Years parties.:joker:


True Scotsman Joey?

I have a kilt somewhere in that clan scheme


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Tartan_Clan_Campbell.png

[Z]

Against it in principle, undecided about how I will vote. On the one hand, staying part of the UK gives many advantages that come with being part of a recognised world power (albeit a fading one) - on the other hand, we're culturally a very different place from the other parts of the UK (as they all are in turn from each other) and while it may have made sense to have united in order to create a global empire; that empire has since ceased to exist so what exactly are we doing remaining part of that last trace of British rule? The three smaller nations in the UK do not have their interests equally represented because the majority of the population lives in England and the majority of decisions are made to keep southern English people of a certain age happy, because they are the ones who vote and they are the ones who provide the most income. Why continue to be a part of a system that isn't working when we could break away from it and form our own, more manageable system with a smaller pool of people and resources?

[Shaun]

can we keep Andy Murray please

[Apple202]

i dont get the point they'll flop on their own

[Firewire]

can we keep Andy Murray please

no bitch you can keep john barrowman doe

[Z]

no bitch you can keep john barrowman doe

Yeah and I don't mind donating Michelle McManus

[Vicky.]

I think they would be mad if they didnt vote yes

I would rather they didnt though, or agreed to take the north east with them when they go :laugh:

[Kazanne]

My Dad's Mum,(my grandmother), was a Campbell,I have Campbell cousins,so in a way another coincidence.

:joker:By the way Sheriff,I do actually own a kilt and have worn it at New Years parties.:joker:

Oh Joey,pics please:hugesmile:

[MTVN]

I think and want the referendum result to be a No. The rest of this year leading up to it is gonna be really interesting though, the battle lines are being a lot more clearly drawn and the onus will be on the SNP to show how viable independence is and give convincing rebuttals to the numerous arguments against it, something I don't think they'll be able to do.

[Josy]

No.

[joeysteele]

Oh Joey,pics please:hugesmile:

I'll have to think about that one Kazanne. :hugesmile:

I do however really hope they vote against independence, I agree with MTVN, the SNP have a job relaying the wholly positive message as to independence but since George Osborne waded in, I do know of some who are at least now thinking of voting yes that weren't before.
This is for sure going to be a long road down these next 7 months to the vote.

[Headie]

No because then we'll lose half of our Athletics stars and Andy Murray :laugh:

[Kazanne]

I'll have to think about that one Kazanne. :hugesmile:

I do however really hope they vote against independence, I agree with MTVN, the SNP have a job relaying the wholly positive message as to independence but since George Osborne waded in, I do know of some who are at least now thinking of voting yes that weren't before.
This is for sure going to be a long road down these next 7 months to the vote.

yes,it will be interesting,I'de rather us stay united,but what will be,will be I guess.

[InOne]

Honestly couldn't care less. Being from West Yorkshire I know it's not going to affect my life whatsoever.

[Vicky.]

Honestly couldn't care less. Being from West Yorkshire I know it's not going to affect my life whatsoever.

Will make you more likely to have a right wing government D:

[Lee.]

100% yes! I'm genuinely excited/nervous about it.

If we vote no though, I'm going to live with Niamh.. If my fellow countrymen don't grab this massive opportunity with both hands, I don't think I'd ever be able to look any of them in the eye again. :hmph:

[InOne]

Will make you more likely to have a right wing government D:

Well then obviously that's when I'll stand up and make things change. I am waiting for the right time to bury the tories but hopefully it will come soon.

[smeagol]

i think its sad we should be the united kingdom. you might as well give liverpool independance , 2014 and it seems people want divides more than ever. we have progressed nowhere.

[the truth]

i think its sad we should be the united kingdom. you might as well give liverpool independance , 2014 and it seems people want divides more than ever. we have progressed nowhere.

the tories destroyed northern england , scotland and south wales.
the elite simply dont understand what damage was done. Im not a socialist but I abhorred the way the tory government behaved in the 1980s. they pretty much destroyed the next 1000 years of coal and steel , not to mention most other industries. leaving behind nothing but broken homes, broken dreams, broken communities all of which has lead to much of the social collapse we still see 30 years later

[user104658]

the tories destroyed northern england , scotland and south wales.
the elite simply dont understand what damage was done. Im not a socialist but I abhorred the way the tory government behaved in the 1980s. they pretty much destroyed the next 1000 years of coal and steel , not to mention most other industries. leaving behind nothing but broken homes, broken dreams, broken communities all of which has lead to much of the social collapse we still see 30 years later

Yes, exactly! It drives me nuts that people see the social problems (gangs of directionless youths, pockets of poverty, alcoholism, drug addiction and benefit dependency), note that a lot of it came about during a Labour government, and blindly assume that it was therefore that government that created "broken Britain".

In reality, the trigger was pulled in the 80's under the Tories. These social shifts don't happen overnight, however, and it was convenient for them that by the time the post-boomer generations really started to feel the effects of that, they were out of office and could say "nothing to do with us! We'll fix it if you give us a chance!" And then blinkered voters believe their propaganda, vote them back in, only for those exact people to have more blame, shame, isolation and hopelessness piled on their doorsteps. Families ruined for generations in the 80's now branded "scroungers", for not managing to recover socially or economically. It's utterly sick. And the cycle will continue for as long as the UK continues to flip-flop in our two party political system. I honestly dread to think what, in 20 years, the children of the grey hopelessness that the Tories have fostered this time around will be like as adults. Of course... We'll have had a labour government in that time... So the Tories can just blame them. And people will actually believe it, again, because people are stupid and have short memories.

Independence or at least devolution of the entirety of spending is the only chance that Scotland has of breaking away from that endless cycle. Which is why I think it's worth a shot. People are scared of what it means, believing it might make things worse for everyone, that staying in the union is "safe" and that things will "stay the same". They fail to realise that the UK - and especially Scotland and the North of England - is on a downwards spiral as things stand. Things will not be "safe" or "the same" ... They will continue to deteriorate.

Look at any medium-sized Scottish or Northern town currently. They are a wreck. It's a disgrace. And it'll only get worse.

[Marc]

can we keep Andy Murray please

I've began filling out the adoption papers

[MTVN]

And the team GB curling teams

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its a crazy situation being run by a government no one voted for. We have our own eejits who can do that. I say yes and all the obstacles will be overcome one by one.

I hate the "project fear" campaign, it is odious and I hate how people think that facing a problem or tricky situation is somehow meant to say to Scotland "ooh dont do it it will be difficult"

pish

[Niamh.]

I'm neither Scottish nor English so it doesn't effect me in anyway but as an Irish person I guess I could understand why some Scottish people would like to be their own country, I know If the Republic of Ireland hadn't gotten our independence back I would be on the side that wanted it

[Niamh.]

100% yes! I'm genuinely excited/nervous about it.

If we vote no though, I'm going to live with Niamh.. If my fellow countrymen don't grab this massive opportunity with both hands, I don't think I'd ever be able to look any of them in the eye again. :hmph:

:laugh:

You're always welcome :love:

[Nedusa]

Although I said in a post in an earlier thread that it will never happen, I for one would love to see Scotland become a fully independent Country standing (and falling) on its own two feet again after some 300 odd years.

I am half Scottish and spent half my life living in Glasgow and still have many friends and family up there. They all desparately want independence irrespective of the economic consequences.

I agree even though I live now in London and would possibly have to apply for a Scottish passport to go home, I feel Scotland needs to try and move forward as a separate nation and control its own borders,currency,military,defence,interest rates etc.. it needs to be able to make ALL it's own decisions and not just be told what to do by its bigger more powerful neighbour.

But as I said earlier I am fearful that it will never happen because the stakes are too high for the elites that run the UK. It would precipitate a complete break-up of the UK and our standing in the wider world would be diminished as a result.

Still, I will keep my fingers crossed............!!!!!

[Lee.]

:laugh:

You're always welcome :love:

Thank you Niamh.. I'm a very courteous houseguest.. I always bring lots of wine! :)

[GypsyGoth]

My view on an independent scotland.

Well I think it'd be great for scotland, the people would be in charge of their own destiny. they would be recognized as a country. They would be a wealthier place too.

Also I believe it would also be good for england long term. I don't think it'll be the end of the UK, that will just evolve into another form.

People generally don't like change, they're afraid of it. that is why it's so easy for english media and politicians to spread fear amongst the scottish voters.

If independence is achieved for scotland, nothing much will change, life will go on and for the most part it will seem like business as usual. Only major difference is that people in scotland will be holding their heads in a little higher.

[Niamh.]

Thank you Niamh.. I'm a very courteous houseguest.. I always bring lots of wine! :)

Excellent :douf:

[Brother Leon]

Couldn't care. If anything if it stops us sucking off Andy Murray then I am Down.

[user104658]

GypsyGoth - I totally agree that it would be better for England, or at least Englands national identity, in the long run. My partner is English now living here in Scotland and has commented on how sad it is that England currently has very little national identity as an individual country, whereas Scotland, Ireland and even Wales all have quite strong identities as countries. "English" identity is firmly routed in British identity / the British Empire and now that that empire is dead, England finds itself floundering with very little solid identity of its own. There are great areas and regional micro-cultures buy even those are dying out to some degree. We lived in her hometown in Lancashire for 3 years and it always saddened me that the older generations had such a local identity - the accent, the attitudes, the sense of humour - were all so very "Lancashire" but the younger generations just have generic Manchester accents and no sense of local identity at all.

I think that's what some people living in England fail to understand: they talk about how Scotland will be so small with independence, and won't have that "global" place "on the world stage" that the UK as a whole "enjoys". They find it hard to comprehend that, maybe, we don't WANT a big place on the world stage or in global politics... That Scottish people might be happy to just roll with the punches and be Scottish, in Scotland.

It's the attitude of power and empire that's been handed down through the generations. People find it impossible to change that view that being a "major player" is the be all and end all when, in reality, in our day to day lives, it doesn't matter at all. It's just pride.

[Niamh.]

GypsyGoth - I totally agree that it would be better for England, or at least Englands national identity, in the long run. My partner is English now living here in Scotland and has commented on how sad it is that England currently has very little national identity as an individual country, whereas Scotland, Ireland and even Wales all have quite strong identities as countries. "English" identity is firmly routed in British identity / the British Empire and now that that empire is dead, England finds itself floundering with very little solid identity of its own. There are great areas and regional micro-cultures buy even those are dying out to some degree. We lived in her hometown in Lancashire for 3 years and it always saddened me that the older generations had such a local identity - the accent, the attitudes, the sense of humour - were all so very "Lancashire" but the younger generations just have generic Manchester accents and no sense of local identity at all.

I think that's what some people living in England fail to understand: they talk about how Scotland will be so small with independence, and won't have that "global" place "on the world stage" that the UK as a whole "enjoys". They find it hard to comprehend that, maybe, we don't WANT a big place on the world stage or in global politics... That Scottish people might be happy to just roll with the punches and be Scottish, in Scotland.

It's the attitude of power and empire that's been handed down through the generations. People find it impossible to change that view that being a "major player" is the be all and end all when, in reality, in our day to day lives, it doesn't matter at all. It's just pride.

Great post, that makes alot of sense

[Brother Leon]

I say **** off and take this man with you.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2013/9/24/1380047068653/David-Moyes-believes-Manc-010.jpg

Scotland's use is no more now :(

[MTVN]

A deal on sharing control of the pound between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK is "unlikely", analysts at the global bank Citigroup have said.

They also said it was "astonishing" the Scottish government did not have a currency union alternative.

The three main Westminster parties have ruled out a formal monetary union in the event of a referendum "Yes" vote.

...

The Citigroup report said there was "nothing inherently implausible about a country with Scotland's population and economy being independent", but raised concerns that:

Scotland's fiscal deficit was "now significantly above UK levels" because of a recent fall in oil revenues

Scotland's "large" banking system, with bank assets of more than 1,000% of Scotland's annual GDP, might be too big for the country to bail out

There was uncertainty over the currency and monetary policy for an independent Scotland.

It said: "We regard a sterling monetary union as unlikely, but we are genuinely unsure what currency and monetary policy would be adopted by an independent Scotland.

"In our view, it is astonishing that the Scottish government, in seeking independence, has reached this stage: seeking a currency union without agreement with the rest of the UK and without a clear alternative plan."

More here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26489307

Maybe not such a bluff after all it seems

[Z]

Yeah I find the lack of what they're actually going to do a bit concerning - they're more interested in political mud slinging and trying to drum up support than actually planning ahead for the last wee while which I think reveals a lot about the ego of Alex Salmond. He wants to go down in history as the guy who led Scotland to independence. He's a bit like a dog chasing a car - what's he actually going to do if he ever gets what he wants? Seems mad that you'd be trying to push for independence without thinking about something as vital and as basic as currency...

[Kizzy]

Here's a question, is RBS actually owned by Scotland?

[joeysteele]

GypsyGoth - I totally agree that it would be better for England, or at least Englands national identity, in the long run. My partner is English now living here in Scotland and has commented on how sad it is that England currently has very little national identity as an individual country, whereas Scotland, Ireland and even Wales all have quite strong identities as countries. "English" identity is firmly routed in British identity / the British Empire and now that that empire is dead, England finds itself floundering with very little solid identity of its own. There are great areas and regional micro-cultures buy even those are dying out to some degree. We lived in her hometown in Lancashire for 3 years and it always saddened me that the older generations had such a local identity - the accent, the attitudes, the sense of humour - were all so very "Lancashire" but the younger generations just have generic Manchester accents and no sense of local identity at all.

I think that's what some people living in England fail to understand: they talk about how Scotland will be so small with independence, and won't have that "global" place "on the world stage" that the UK as a whole "enjoys". They find it hard to comprehend that, maybe, we don't WANT a big place on the world stage or in global politics... That Scottish people might be happy to just roll with the punches and be Scottish, in Scotland.

It's the attitude of power and empire that's been handed down through the generations. People find it impossible to change that view that being a "major player" is the be all and end all when, in reality, in our day to day lives, it doesn't matter at all. It's just pride.

That makes a really good and interesting read Toy Soldier as is the case with near all your posts.

Really well said and I would say totally accurate too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

literally no one in scotland wants it except the egg who's the first minister bye it'll be a no vote anyway (hopefully)

That is utter lies:nono:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Anyone who watched gogglebox last night and saw the posh family talking about Scotland and independence would have seen a good example of one of the exact reasons why Scotland wish for independence.

[Livia]

Anyone who watched gogglebox last night and saw the posh family talking about Scotland and independence would have seen a good example of one of the exact reasons why Scotland wish for independence.

As if anyone would ever think that pair of ridiculous knobs represent the English. Or indeed, represent anyone other than detestable, loathsome middle class dickheads.

[Crimson Dynamo]

As if anyone would ever think that pair of ridiculous knobs represent the English. Or indeed, represent anyone other than detestable, loathsome middle class dickheads.

woooah there cowgirl, dont break the spell - the woman steph in that is who I have you pictured as in your Norfolk mansion?

[Livia]

woooah there cowgirl, dont break the spell - the woman steph in that is who I have you pictured as in your Norfolk mansion?

As she's about thirty years older and at least three stone heavier I am delighted to disappoint you.

[andybigbro]

No I don't want Scotland to become independant!
I like being part of the UK :(

[Marsh.]

As she's about thirty years older and at least three stone heavier I am delighted to disappoint you.

But do you share her drink problem?

[seanraff07]

Not sure if there's already a thread about this but hey-ho.

I'm guessing a lot of folk on here are from UK outwith Scotland, just wondering what your views are on the whole Scotland for independence?

I'd say going by hearing other people's views, it's not far off 50/50. Personally I'll be voting no.

[Crimson Dynamo]

what, when is this happening?

[Josy]

Scottish. Voting No.

We have a thread in serious debates about it I will merge this into it...

[Smithy]

I don't really give a flying ****