Labour's Harman and Dromey vs the DM

[arista]

She says its a Smear


But last night on Newsnight she would not say sorry

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/24/article-2567054-1BCD4E6C00000578-806_634x450.jpg
[The BBC was accused yesterday of keeping
the growing paedophilia scandal from
the airwaves in order to protect the Labour Party]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567054/But-wont-say-sorry-Labours-Harman-Dromey-finally-break-silence-links-paedophile-group.html#ixzz2uK52131w


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/24/article-2567098-1BB854F3000005DC-865_634x931.jpg
Allegations: Labour's deputy leader Harriet Harman, 63, and her 65-year-old husband Jack Dromey
Harmans Reply
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567098/Not-one-hint-remorse-Harriet-Harman-Jack-Dromeys-statements-Mails-replies.html#ixzz2uK5nNyOW

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/19/article-2562790-1BA16E3900000578-234_634x728.jpg

[Nedusa]

The Daily Mail are saying Harriet Harmon and her husband were supportive of the Paedophile Information exchange (P.I.E) because they were involved with the National Council for Civil Liberties back in the 70's.

So they were guilty by association or they were guilty of not doing more to disassociate the NCCL from the PIE

But they maintain the link between the two organisations was tenuous and superficial without any real substance. they maintain at no time did they ever offer any form of support for this group.

So should they now be smeared by the Daily Mail or is this just another politically motivated ploy to discredit Labour. Scoring political points by treading all over peoples reputations.

Why am I not surprised by this...typical story from a fascist, right wing, tory rag....!!!

[arista]

The Daily Mail are saying Harriet Harmon and her husband were supportive of the Paedophile Information exchange (P.I.E) because they were involved with the National Council for Civil Liberties back in the 70's.

So they were guilty by association or they were guilty of not doing more to disassociate the NCCL from the PIE

But they maintain the link between the two organisations was tenuous and superficial without any real substance. they maintain at no time did they ever offer any form of support for this group.

So should they now be smeared by the Daily Mail or is this just another politically motivated ploy to discredit Labour. Scoring political points by treading all over peoples reputations.

Why am I not surprised by this...typical story from a fascist, right wing, tory rag....!!!



Yes and thats how they can say sorry.


DM is is not Fascist
they are a Dog with bone.

[Kizzy]

Yes and thats how they can say sorry.


DM is is not Fascist
they are a Dog with bone.

They most certainly are arista, fascist tory mouthpeice.
I suggest anyone who is aware of this political bias complain to the press complaints commission.

http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/form.html

[arista]

They most certainly are arista, fascist tory mouthpeice.
I suggest anyone who is aware of this political bias complain to the press complaints commission.

http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/form.html


They are what they are
but Not Fascist.


They were a Blair Mouthpiece in his New Labour

[Nedusa]

They are what they are
but Not Fascist.


They were a Blair Mouthpiece in his New Labour

No.......wasn't that the Sun ??

[arista]

No.......wasn't that the Sun ??


Yes and he wrote for the Daily Mail
and used them to get his New Labour politics
free pr

[Kizzy]

The Mirror and the Guardian are seen as left leaning yet only report as is... the mail and the sun do not, they smear and dig and hack.
It's influence that can't have a price put on it, brainwashing with your morning cuppa.

[arista]

The Mirror and the Guardian are seen as left leaning yet only report as is... the mail and the sun do not, they smear and dig and hack.
It's influence that can't have a price put on it, brainwashing with your morning cuppa.

The Guardian is a Great Paper
but bankrupt


Link for Kizzy in this story
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/24/harriet-harman-daily-mail-paedophile-campaign-allegations

[Kizzy]

Well it's not politically funded is it? I've read the article thanks.

[Livia]

Despite which paper broke this story, and with acceptance that the Daily Mail is a rag, Harman was involved with the organisation in question; an organisation that supported peodophiles and the exploitation of children. I'm not surprised Harman wants to distance herself from it.

Despite the fact that she's a Labour MP, I always quite admired Harriet Harman. She was (I think) the first single (as in unmarried) mother to become an MP. This issue is disturbing though andnd I get the feeling she's going to try to justify her involvement, which would be a bad mistake.

[smudgie]

It all looks a bit muddy for me.:conf:

[arista]

Despite which paper broke this story, and with acceptance that the Daily Mail is a rag, Harman was involved with the organisation in question; an organisation that supported peodophiles and the exploitation of children. I'm not surprised Harman wants to distance herself from it.

Despite the fact that she's a Labour MP, I always quite admired Harriet Harman. She was (I think) the first single (as in unmarried) mother to become an MP. This issue is disturbing though andnd I get the feeling she's going to try to justify her involvement, which would be a bad mistake.


Yes all she had to do was say Sorry
last night on Newsnight.

[Nedusa]

Despite which paper broke this story, and with acceptance that the Daily Mail is a rag, Harman was involved with the organisation in question; an organisation that supported peodophiles and the exploitation of children. I'm not surprised Harman wants to distance herself from it.

Despite the fact that she's a Labour MP, I always quite admired Harriet Harman. She was (I think) the first single (as in unmarried) mother to become an MP. This issue is disturbing though andnd I get the feeling she's going to try to justify her involvement, which would be a bad mistake.


Harriet Harmon was not involved with an organisation that supported paedophiles and the exploitation of children....it is very unfair to say this !!!

The National Council for Civil Liberties (now Liberty) was back in the seventies operating as an umbrella company for many groups and organisations at that time.

Over 1,000 of these groups applied for membership and joined without the levels of vetting now applied to most organisations when joining.

The Paedophile information Exchange or P.I.E as it was known were basically a Paedophile group masquerading as a legitimate organisation involved in trying to lower the various age of sexual consents for straight and gay people.

The N.C.C.L never approved or supported this group (in public or at their AGM) and once their true aims were realised they were thrown out of the N.C.C.L

The N.C.C.L never knowingly supported this group and Mrs Harmon certainly did not either.

This is a Political smear campaign by the Mail to try and discredit her like they did earlier with Ed Milliband with the story about his father.


I wish people could look a little deeper into these stories before repeating such blatant untruths.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think she should have immediately apologised and said yes we should have got rid of that association but obviously it did not mean that I in any way condoned what they stood for.

That said just what is the DM saying? that she is a paedo, or she is not fit to do her job now?

bunch of fwits

[arista]

I think she should have immediately apologised and said yes we should have got rid of that association but obviously it did not mean that I in any way condoned what they stood for.

That said just what is the DM saying? that she is a paedo, or she is not fit to do her job now?

bunch of fwits


They want her to say Sorry

[Nedusa]

I think the DM is just trying to make a point that she made an error in judgement being connected (however loosely) with a Paedophile organisation.

But tbh she was at fault only inasmuch as she did not spend huge amounts of time investigating the true aims and members of over 1,000 organisations just in case one or two had some dark secrets to hide.

Personally I think she has nothing to apologise for as she has done nothing wrong.

With hindsight bearing in mind her political aspirations at that time, perhaps she should have thought twice about getting involved with an organisation which was in fact an umbrella organisation for many other groups, as she must have known then that proper vetting of all of these groups was logistically impossible bearing in mind that membership was probably obtained through the post with a yearly subscription.

She probably wanted to be seen as being involved with Civil liberties without looking at the finer details of the structure of the organisation she was joining.

All things considered, to make this rather tenuous connection now really is just trying to score political points ...I mean what other purpose could this information serve ?

Are they trying to say that Mrs Harmon is a Paedophile or likes little boys ??

No of course not, so why chase a story like this ? Exactly !! Tory point scoring pure and simple

[Kizzy]

Sorry for what....
What about the pedophile ring within government that MP Tom Watson asked to be investigated?
What about the time Jimmy Saville spent at chequers as a guest of Margret Thatcher?

[Livia]

I notice an apology has been forthcoming. A little late.

It is incomprehensible to me how a civil liberties organisation can affiliate themselves to a group supporting paedophiles.

[Kizzy]

'Was there a paedophile ring in No 10? MP Tom Watson demands probe'

'A powerful paedophile network may have operated in Britain protected by its connections to Parliament and Downing Street, a senior Labour politician suggested yesterday.
Speaking from the back benches of the House of Commons, Tom Watson, the deputy chairman of the Labour Party, called on the Metropolitan Police to reopen a closed criminal inquiry into paedophilia.'

'They are thought to involve the activities of the Paedophile Information Exchange, a pro-paedophile group in existence between 1974 and 1984, which believed there should be no age of consent.

Responding to the remarks, David Cameron said the MP had raised “a very difficult and complex case”, adding he was unclear which former Prime Minister Mr Watson was referring to.

Criticising the BBC’s record on Savile – who was never caught and died last year aged 84, the Prime Minister said: "These allegations do leave many institutions - perhaps particularly the BBC - with serious questions to answer - I think above all the question, 'How did he get away with this for so long?'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/was-there-a-paedophile-ring-in-no-10-mp-tom-watson-demands-probe-8224702.html

[Livia]

All that's terrible Kizzy; shameful, and investigations must go ahead and people should be prosecuted or cleared otherwise it makes a mockery of our Parliament and our laws. But it doesn't let Harman off the hook.

[Kizzy]

Well to me it seems hypocritical to ask one MP to apologise for merely being associated with an organisation that had a tenuous link to PIE almost 40yrs ago, and yet sat in the house of lords are those who had slightly stronger connections it seems?...

[MTVN]

The links between the NCCL and the Paedophile Information Exchange are well documented, as is Harman's opposition to various changes in the law in connection with paedophilia when she was the NCCL's legal officer. Indeed, Newsnight flashed up one of these documents, signed by Harman herself and submitted to the Home Office, calling for the "maximum sentence" for people found in possession of indecent images of children to be "reduced". Not only that, but Harman's colleague, the former Labour Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt, was the general secretary of the NCCL in 1976 when the organisation submitted the following "evidence" to Parliament: “Childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage… The real need is a change in the attitude which assumes that all cases of paedophilia result in lasting damage.”

One of the most unconvincing things about Harman's attempt to dismiss the story as a Daily Mail "smear campaign" is that the Mail isn't the only publication to have raised questions about the NCCL's links with the PIE. Private Eye has been writing about the group and its links to various members of the Establishment for decades and Damian Thompson, the editor of Telegraph Blogs, referred two years ago to Harman and Hewitt's involvement in the NCCL when it was linked to the paedophile group. Earlier this week, Andrew Gilligan wrote a piece for this newspaper in which he pointed out that the NCCL believed the right of adults to sleep with children was a "civil liberty" and that Harman, in her capacity as the organisation's legal officer, argued that child pornography should not be banned. Even the Labour-supporting Observer ran a piece at the weekend suggesting that Harman should offer an explanation for the NCCL's links to this notorious lobby group. "PIE's influence was such that the NCCL lobbied for what was dubbed a 'Lolita charter', where the age of consent would be lowered to 10 (if the child 'understood the nature of the act'); another proposal argued for incest to be legalised," wrote Barbara Ellen. If this is a "smear campaign", it's one that the whole of Fleet Street appears to be complicit in.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100261019/harriet-harman-owes-the-british-public-a-full-explanation-about-the-nccls-links-with-paedophile-group/

Sounds to me like she has a bit more to answer for than a minor technical oversight

[Kizzy]

I see the torygraph are piling on the pressure too.

[Livia]

Well to me it seems hypocritical to ask one MP to apologise for merely being associated with an organisation that had a tenuous link to PIE almost 40yrs ago, and yet sat in the house of lords are those who had slightly stronger connections it seems?...

I hardly call her link tenuous; her involvement with the organisation is a matter of record. And once some evidence regarding the others comes to light - and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it did - then those others must be held to account. But you can't ask people to apologise on the strength of someone's allegations.

[MTVN]

I see the torygraph are piling on the pressure too.

Dismissing documented evidence and fact outright on the basis of the source, sounds like something Harman would do :pipe2:

[Jack_]

This disgusting rag having the audacity to accuse anyone of having any kind of association with paedophiles is ****ing appalling, since they exploit children and sexualise them every single ****ing day on their pathetic website.

I urge everyone to sign this petition and have this waste of paper finally have something to answer to.

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/daily-mail-mailonline-stop-the-daily-mail-sexualising-children

Preaching morality and standards is their editorial code, yet they plumb new depths every ****ing day. When will it be closed down?

[Livia]

This disgusting rag having the audacity to accuse anyone of having any kind of association with paedophiles is ****ing appalling, since they exploit children and sexualise them every single ****ing day on their pathetic website.

I urge everyone to sign this petition and have this waste of paper finally have something to answer to.

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/daily-mail-mailonline-stop-the-daily-mail-sexualising-children

Preaching morality and standards is their editorial code, yet they plumb new depths every ****ing day. When will it be closed down?

All very noble.... but what about Harman? Which is what this thread is about.

[Kizzy]

I hardly call her link tenuous; her involvement with the organisation is a matter of record. And once some evidence regarding the others comes to light - and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it did - then those others must be held to account. But you can't ask people to apologise on the strength of someone's allegations.

Her involvement was with NCCL not PIE... Therefore it's not a direct link is it?
You shouldn't really ask someone to apologise for such a vague association, and it would seem that attitudinal change is what happens over the course of almost 4 decades.

[Kizzy]

Dismissing documented evidence and fact outright on the basis of the source, sounds like something Harman would do :pipe2:

Flashing a piece of paper on newsnight is not evidence... :pipe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

To be honest its about as big a story as the Milliband Dad hates britain one.

[Jack_]

All very noble.... but what about Harman? Which is what this thread is about.

No, the thread is about the Mail bringing this story to the fore hence 'Harman vs the DM' in the title, and that petition was started to highlight their complete double standards - so it is absolutely relevant.

[Livia]

Her involvement was with NCCL not PIE... Therefore it's not a direct link is it?
You shouldn't really ask someone to apologise for such a vague association, and it would seem that attitudinal change is what happens over the course of almost 4 decades.

She was instrumental in an organisation that was affiliated to the organisation in question. Who DO we hold responsible then? PIE did not affiliate itself to NCCL without the knowledge of the people running NCCL. That's as direct as link as it's possible to be. Harman was right to apologise.

[Livia]

No, the thread is about the Mail bringing this story to the fore hence 'Harman vs the DM' in the title, and that petition was started to highlight their complete double standards - so it is absolutely relevant.

But you've nothing to say about the subject of the story? Harman: right or wrong?

[arista]

All very noble.... but what about Harman? Which is what this thread is about.


Yes Bang On Right


Typical of Jack
who should do his own thread about Owens Dream

[arista]

But you've nothing to say about the subject of the story? Harman: right or wrong?


Yes even Labour MP's have said to Radio 5
Harman has not handled this well.

[arista]

Dismissing documented evidence and fact outright on the basis of the source, sounds like something Harman would do :pipe2:


Yes so typical of her

[Kizzy]

She was instrumental in an organisation that was affiliated to the organisation in question. Who DO we hold responsible then? PIE did not affiliate itself to NCCL without the knowledge of the people running NCCL. That's as direct as link as it's possible to be. Harman was right to apologise.

I disagree, here is an up to date less accusatory piece.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/25/harriet-harman-daily-mail-argument-nccl-link-pie

[Kizzy]

Yes so typical of her

Shurrup you! I am most wise :hmph:

[arista]

Shurrup you! I am most wise :hmph:


Yes
But I am talking about MP Cocky Harman

[arista]

I disagree, here is an up to date less accusatory piece.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/25/harriet-harman-daily-mail-argument-nccl-link-pie


look at the beggers copying my Thread title

[arista]

Harman Denies Colluding With Paedophile Group

2 videos

http://news.sky.com/story/1216883/harman-denies-colluding-with-paedophile-group


She can stop all this and say Sorry

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/25/291887/default/v1/harriet-tweet-1-522x293.jpg

Look at that Pathetic Labour MP
that photo is on many papers
kids on Holiday

[Nedusa]

Sorry !!! sorry for what ? for being a secret paedophile, for supporting paedophiles, for being unwittingly affiliated to a closet paedophile group who had deceitfully joined a mainstream civil liberties group in the sick perverted hope of trying to reduce or eliminate sexual age of consents.

Why exactly has this woman done to be sorry for ?

sorry for joining the N.C.C.L for which in the main campaigns for peoples rights ! sorry for trying to help people and make a difference.

What is wrong with people in this thread, why do so many think this woman is guilty and what is it they think she should apologise for ?

[arista]

Sorry !!! sorry for what ? for being a secret paedophile, for supporting paedophiles, for being unwittingly affiliated to a closet paedophile group who had deceitfully joined a mainstream civil liberties group in the sick perverted hope of trying to reduce or eliminate sexual age of consents.

Why exactly has this woman done to be sorry for ?

sorry for joining the N.C.C.L for which in the main campaigns for peoples rights ! sorry for trying to help people and make a difference.

What is wrong with people in this thread, why do so many think this woman is guilty and what is it they think she should apologise for ?



Sorry for being Associated with that Group
Others have yesterday

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/24/291766/default/v1/mail-1-329x437.jpg

[Kizzy]

It's a smear campaign and I would say a very silly one...
Is there a members list for PIE I wonder?
If they want to start dirt digging from the 70s and 80s game on!
Lets start with fatty Cyril Smith or Sir Peter Morrison,or ask why Norman Tebbit gave the eulogy at Savilles funeral... the link is the freemasons I would say and the reason why there will never be a real investigation into abuses involving former MPs.

[arista]

It's a smear campaign and I would say a very silly one...
Is there a members list for PIE I wonder?
If they want to start dirt digging from the 70s and 80s game on!
Lets start with fatty Cyril Smith or Sir Peter Morrison,or ask why Norman Tebbit gave the eulogy at Savilles funeral... the link is the freemasons I would say and the reason why there will never be a real investigation into abuses involving former MPs.


Wrong

If it Was Conservative
they would Publish the same
the co-editor of DM has said.

C.Smith
has a thread
Do not go way off topic
Please

[Livia]

Wrong

If it Was Conservative
they would Publish the same
the co-editor of DM has said.



The MPs' expenses scandal was broken by the Telegraph. It wasn't political, they exposed MPs in all parties. No one should be protected because of who they represent.

[Kizzy]

Wrong

If it Was Conservative
they would Publish the same
the co-editor of DM has said.

C.Smith
has a thread
Do not go way off topic
Please

I disagree, there is plenty of dirt to be dug on conservatives but the mail would never do that because they are too bias, it's well known.
why not mention other MPs who are or knew about abusers?.... why is this woman being harassed by the mail due to a vague association with an organisation she was involved with in the 1970s?

[Livia]

Harriet Harman was one of the people who ran the NCCL. That's hardly a "vague association".

[joeysteele]

I really have little liking for Harriet Harman at all, I find her humerous at times but not very effective.
She is not a politician I have any admiration for.

However, this is over 30 years ago, it comes from the Daily Mail which hardly has any, if indeed it has any at all, decent morals whatsoever.

All the news has said today is that no one in parliament does or would have any belief she was a supporter of paedophilia.
She has said herself that this organisation was part of the organsiation when she joined.

This is a disgrace that this paper gets away with damning politicians like this, it's whole headlines at first glance, sets out to convey that these people from Labour, had involvement with supporting a paedophile group just because it was already part of an organisation that they had joined.

That is a disgusting slur and in my view, and is by me, should be condemned in the name of all decency.
It is the Daily Mail that should be apologising for its really disgusting headlines as with Ed Milibands Father too last year.

I see nothing Hattie Harperson should apologise for,to do so would then have them saying she had incriminated herself by apologising.
That is ridiculous and I would be saying this no matter what party the Daily Mail was getting at as to its MPs, even Lib Dems.

Why this rotten rag and the equally rotten Sun are even classed as genuine newspapers is beyond me and I would never believe anything either says because of the disgraceful way they headline and word their so called moral reporting.

Thank goodness I would never ever buy either of them, they should be removed from newstands in my opinion as they do far greater disservice to the Country than any service to it.

PIE was ejected from this organisation in 1983 it is reported, that is near 30 years ago,how can this be current news for goodness sake.

[the truth]

she ran the nccl so she should fry , simple as that

[Kizzy]

Harriet Harman was one of the people who ran the NCCL. That's hardly a "vague association".

It was one of 1000 other action groups that the NCCL were aware of, should people start suggesting she is instrumental in supporting all those too?
As I've said people in glass houses ....
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/97748/vbs-report.pdf

[joeysteele]

It was one of 1000 other action groups that the NCCL were aware of, should people start suggesting she is instrumental in supporting all those too?
As I've said people in glass houses ....
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/97748/vbs-report.pdf

Exactly, and why aren't all the people invovlved with the NCCL being pilloried like she is by the Daily Mail.
I am fed up of papers with these political vendettas against certain parties.
This is ancient news, this must have been known in the 70s and early 80s but it is getting massive attention now from the Daily mail, it didn't seem bothered at the time.

Sheer hypocrisy,it drives me mad and it amazes me that the Daily Mail and The Sun have anyone wasting money on them.

Harriett Harman is looking in line to be deputy PM in 2015 and that is all what is behind this Daily Mail hypocrisy, it failed with Ed Miliband and his Father so now it is raking up other nonsense.
I thouhgt all was ably explained by someone on Newsnight last night from the States who gave good and frank answers to this when asked but who also made no apologies and saw no reason for Harriet Harman to either.
He was there when she was and talked far more fairly and made more sense than anyone will ever get from the rag that is the Daily Mail.

Who buys it for goodness sake, why waste money on these awful people and line their pockets.I don't know of a single person who reads it, even my Dad who is usually Conservative wouldn't have the Daily Mail in the house.
I never see any reason whatsoever to buy a paper really, we have blanket news on radio and TV, which thankfully is presented more balanced most of the time than what we are served up by the gutter press like the Sun and Daily Mail.

For me, this is a pointless thing from the Daily Mail and although I can see faults with Labour as I can with all parties,this endless sort of witchhunt by the Daily Mail against prominent Labour MPs is really becoming tiresome now.
It looks and is stupid really.

[Kizzy]

Totally joey it is nothing more than an aggressive smear campaign against labour, it's just so screamingly obvious now they don't even attempt to mask it.

[arista]

Totally joey it is nothing more than an aggressive smear campaign against labour, it's just so screamingly obvious now they don't even attempt to mask it.


If it was they would take the paper to Court.

[Kizzy]

No they wouldn't, it's not worth giving the rubbish any more thought.

[arista]

No they wouldn't, it's not worth giving the rubbish any more thought.


But it Goes On


The child sex attacker and Soviet spy
who was in the vile group legitimised by Harman and chums

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567991/The-child-sex-attacker-Soviet-spy-vile-group-legitimised-Harman-chums.html#ixzz2uQKkQ29R

[Kizzy]

But it Goes On


The child sex attacker and Soviet spy
who was in the vile group legitimised by Harman and chums

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567991/The-child-sex-attacker-Soviet-spy-vile-group-legitimised-Harman-chums.html#ixzz2uQKkQ29R

Well it's just getting ridiculous now...

[joeysteele]

No they wouldn't, it's not worth giving the rubbish any more thought.

It isn't, you are spot on Kizzy.
In fact it is a pity decent people have to even glance at the headlines of this vile paper in shops and stores,a publication that hardly itself has any good record as to decency on most things anyway.

Far better to let this die a death,(as was the case with the despicable slur as to Ed Miliband and his dead Father), than give the Daily Mail the added bonus of a likely lengthy court battle and the publicity that would come from that too.

[Livia]

The truth is, if this had been, for instance, Theresa May, this thread would read quite differently. The same people claiming it's a slur campaign, who are ignoring the facts because of who published them and thinking we should all turn a blind eye for Harman, would be baying for blood. No one moaned about the Telegraph, or as it's been called in this thread "The Torygraph", when it was ridiculing the Tories because of moats and duck houses... then it was all about the freedom of the press. It's actually, in a strange way, quite amusing.

[Kizzy]

The truth is, if this had been, for instance, Theresa May, this thread would read quite differently. The same people claiming it's a slur campaign, who are ignoring the facts because of who published them and thinking we should all turn a blind eye for Harman, would be baying for blood. No one moaned about the Telegraph, or as it's been called in this thread "The Torygraph", when it was ridiculing the Tories because of moats and duck houses... then it was all about the freedom of the press. It's actually, in a strange way, quite amusing.

If you mean me and we both know you do then you're wrong, the issue is with the bias of the DM livia, not ours.
At least the torygraph attempts to remain impartial, that's something to smile about at least.

[joeysteele]

The truth is, if this had been, for instance, Theresa May, this thread would read quite differently. The same people claiming it's a slur campaign, who are ignoring the facts because of who published them and thinking we should all turn a blind eye for Harman, would be baying for blood. No one moaned about the Telegraph, or as it's been called in this thread "The Torygraph", when it was ridiculing the Tories because of moats and duck houses... then it was all about the freedom of the press. It's actually, in a strange way, quite amusing.

You know I generally love to agree with you Livia but speaking for myself anyway, if this had been Theresa May, and she is a politician I dislike intensely.
I would still be stating this this is a ridiculous smear to be making.
Had there been an ounce of evidence that harriett Harman or anyone else had been supporters of paedophilia then I would be condemning them as much as this vile paper is.

As to the Telegraph and the expenses scandal, the difference there was what was exposed were a lot of truths that some have even gone to prison for and from all parties.
So a far fairer and balanced reporting of that issue from the Telegraph I would have to admit.
I have said all through, no matter who this current awful Daily Mail matter was aimed at, or from what party, I would be condemning 100% still the Daily Mail.

Harriett Harman is far from being one of my favourite politicians but as for anyone who would have been in this position with the Daily Mail,I have to say, I neither agree with how they have gone about it and no one should have to put up with their vile smearing practices any longer.
Enough should have been enough with the slur as to Ed Miliband and his deceased Father, likewise there too, I would have been saying that had they been getting at David Cameron's or Nick Clegg's Father.

For me the Daily Mail is indefensible just out of decency alone,just my view but I believe in fairness.
What I want from so called 'newspapers' is proper news, correctly reported and positions not used to engage in smear campaigns trying to make it look like there is more where there is in reality nothing to answer to really.

It would seem all attempts to bring the press to some accountability for their actions has been a waste of time and money.
If this goes on then I may even go as far as to say there should even be some curbs on the press in future as to what they print and how they print it.

To be thought of as responsible people need to prove they are and not engage in slurs and smears like this hiding behind the name of reporting and journalism.

[Livia]

We'll have to disagree on this one joey. While I agree with your thoughts on the Daily Mail, Harman is still responsible. She ran an organisation that affiliated itself knowingly to a group that supports paedophiles. That's the bottom line for me. What her involvement actually was is something that I'm sure will come to light eventually because the truth will out, and I'm sure other, more worthy newspapers will be picking up this story.

[joeysteele]

We'll have to disagree on this one joey. While I agree with your thoughts on the Daily Mail, Harman is still responsible. She ran an organisation that affiliated itself knowingly to a group that supports paedophiles. That's the bottom line for me. What her involvement actually was is something that I'm sure will come to light eventually because the truth will out, and I'm sure other, more worthy newspapers will be picking up this story.

Well you know I always respect and most of the time take on board your opinion across the board.

However to be really fair, she was 'not' the only person actually running it or the only person in an influential position there,she herself called PIE a vile organisation.

She was only a legal advisor, maybe the only possible criticism as to her would be that as a legal advisor she could have said it would be better for PIE to be removed from this organisation, which in any case it was in 1983.
That however,to me, is still nothing to apologise for.
As the man from the States said on newsnight last night who was there at the time, he saw nothing to apologise for as to this issue either from him or from Harriet Harman.

Just where do we allow the press to go with these kangaroo type courts of reporting and the time it has taken for this to be headline news.
All through the late 70s and 80s it seems it was not a big issue then to make front page headlines,it is time these witchhunts were stopped and I still find it distasteful and unjust really.

I am sure a great number of politicians from every party and indeed others in public life have come across and even been semi close to dubious and very unpleasant organisations at some time and certainly when younger.

David Cameron I understand had close connections to some organisation that would have called for Nelson Mandela to be executed over 30 years or so ago.
There is another big issue for me but I am sure David Cameron has well and truly moved away from that stance and I would never say it was right that it was something to hold against him at the time of Nelson Mandela's death or now after all that time.
Not liking Harriet Harman, or any politician from any party,is no justification for crucifying them for their past involvements that they may have come across in their studying years or early work years either.

As you say thowever, we will have to agree to disagree because personally I see nothing that she has to apologise for, not really, and I am not going to speculate that more could be found as to her either.
I firmly believe that anyone cannot and should not be condemned for things not even said or things that are not even known acts.

[the truth]

Totally joey it is nothing more than an aggressive smear campaign against labour, it's just so screamingly obvious now they don't even attempt to mask it.

labour stink theres no need for a smear camaign, bunch of crooks and war criminals

[arista]

[Labour's Patricia Hewitt last night apologised
after The Sun confronted her for backing
a paedophile plan for the age of
consent to be Ten in certain cases.
The ex-Health Secretary put her name
to a document that also wanted
to legalise incest. She and Jack Dromey,
now a Labour MP, were members of a
committee recommending a
revolutionary change in child sex laws.
Our investigation showed how she backed the
work of the Paedophile Information
Exchange (PIE) in the
1970s and 1980s. She said: “I got it wrong
on PIE and I apologise for having done so.”
The call to lower the age of consent came in 1976,
when Ms Hewitt was general secretary of the
National Council for Civil Liberties
(NCCL) — whose links with PIE have provoked a storm.
Labour’s deputy leader Harriet Harman
and her MP husband Jack Dromey were
also NCCL members, but this is the first
time one of the party’s politicians has been
shown to directly endorse extreme views
on child sex. ]

from sun+online

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/27/292579/default/v1/bhg76gfcuaa54j7-1-329x437.png



here we go again

[joeysteele]

In fairness Patricia Hewitt was far more senior at NCCL than Harriet Harman ever was. I think also the Sun headline is a bit of an over the top too.
I knew it would have to get in on the act eventually being such a great example of moral virtue itself,I think not.

[Kizzy]

I can just about bring myself to comment on the mail... but the sun? forget it!

[joeysteele]

I can just about bring myself to comment on the mail... but the sun? forget it!

Awful thing to be on the news stands Kizzy, I only see any of it when people post its headlines on here.

I even know someone who buys the thing every day of the week, never looks at it but on Saturday takes out the TV mag then all them just go in her bin.
Over £3 a week spent on it and she and no one connected to her ever even reads it.