Non-black people - do you have a problem with black people using the n word?

[Me. I Am Salman]

personally I think they totally have the right to reclaim that word and use it in whatever context they want to. people who complain about it piss me the ****** off

[Jesus.]

It's non of my honky, cracker business. White people shouldn't use it, and I don't know why any of them would want to.

[arista]

personally I think they totally have the right to reclaim that word and use it in whatever context they want to. people who complain about it piss me the ****** off


In adult comedy
Yes the N word is fine

[Ninastar]

Yeah I do because I dont think its fair that only black people can say it and it be okay but if a white/non black person says it, they are racist?

i think thats wrong

its an awful word and if people think its offensive, they shouldn't use it themselves

[arista]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243829&highlight=super+people

Check this track out Salman
its from 1975

[Kizzy]

Do we have to have this debate every few weeks?... It just causes tension as the subject is so emotive.

[arista]

Do we have to have this debate every few weeks?... It just causes tension as the subject is so emotive.

Ignore it

[Jesus.]

Yeah I do because I dont think its fair that only black people can say it and it be okay but if a white/non black person says it, they are racist?

i think thats wrong

its an awful word and if people think its offensive, they shouldn't use it themselves

This argument has always confused me. I know you don't mean it like this, but it always comes across as though white people are complaining about not being able to use it, and we're missing out.

The historical significance of that particular word, means it's understandable that black people would want to use it, and completely unacceptable that white people would want to.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Do we have to have this debate every few weeks?... It just causes tension as the subject is so emotive.

I'm feeling really political today

[Kizzy]

I'm feeling really political today

It's not really a political issue but whatevs

[Ninastar]

This argument has always confused me. I know you don't mean it like this, but it always comes across as though white people are complaining about not being able to use it, and we're missing out.

The historical significance of that particular word, means it's understandable that black people would want to use it, and completely unacceptable that white people would want to.

fair enough if there's a historical reason as to why some people can say something yet others can't but I very very much doubt that half the people who say it, even know the background behind it. I honestly think it's more of a moral highground thing.

and lol, no I don't want to be able to use it. I wish it wasn't used at all.

i just think it's ironic that so many people fight for equality yet there are words that some people are allowed to say and others aren't. I am not even a little bit racist. I just think there is a lot of racism against white people that doesn't get spoken about because it's not taken seriously. and I think that's wrong.

mind you it's not that bad at all in the country. it's in america where it's bad.

[Nedusa]

Yes.......I have a problem with black people using that word.

It is a highly offensive word and is best left to disappear from the urban lexicon. Non black people do not go near that word but if they hear black people using the word in an almost familiar way when describing their best friends or buddies, then it can become confusing to non black people.

They are not sure if the word is taboo or is it just taboo for them which in itself suggests a form of verbal racism.

I don't see young Pakistani's going around calling each other ****'s so I think young black people need to let this word slide into history and move on from trying to "own" the word..........

[Niamh.]

None what so ever

[Jesus.]

fair enough if there's a historical reason as to why some people can say something yet others can't but I very very much doubt that half the people who say it, even know the background behind it. I honestly think it's more of a moral highground thing.

and lol, no I don't want to be able to use it. I wish it wasn't used at all.

i just think it's ironic that so many people fight for equality yet there are words that some people are allowed to say and others aren't. I am not even a little bit racist. I just think there is a lot of racism against white people that doesn't get spoken about because it's not taken seriously. and I think that's wrong.

mind you it's not that bad at all in the country. it's in america where it's bad.

For many, equality is simply being able to use that word, rather than having it used against them to de-humanise them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its not all black people its just the oiky ones and rappers who want to be cool. Its to the discredit of all black people (whoever black people are, I mean is Jessica Ennis Black?) that they use the word. More fool them.

[Vicky.]

I don't particularly care, but I don't understand why anyone would want to say it given its connections. I don't really buy the 'reclaiming the word' stuff to be quite honest, but each to their own.

[arista]

Its not all black people its just the oiky ones and rappers who want to be cool. Its to the discredit of all black people (whoever black people are, I mean is Jessica Ennis Black?) that they use the word. More fool them.


http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243829&highlight=super+people

These were Soul Singers 1975
Not rappers

[Z]

The word in general makes me uncomfortable. From a young age we are taught that certain words are bad and you should not say them; obviously as you get older you decide for yourself what you feel comfortable saying and what you don't feel comfortable saying (e.g. I throw the c word around but I'd never say the n word) but the difference between most taboo words and the n word is that the latter is offensive to an entire race of people and is the word that probably most represents the centuries of suffering that white people subjected black people to. It's a collective shame that white people are taught to feel from a young age; historically we did this to black people and that word represents a time we have moved on from and should not ever return to. That's why it's especially jarring to hear people use the word; I understand trying to reclaim a word but for me it's just not something I can get behind.

[Vicky.]

I do think aswell, that it could confuse kids, and make them more likely to say it if that makes sense. So the word will never 'disappear'

2 black kids in a playground calling each other *****. White kid then thinks its ok to call them that as they call each other it (kinda like mate..). **** hits the fan. Kinda thing.

[arista]

I do think aswell, that it could confuse kids, and make them more likely to say it if that makes sense. So the word will never 'disappear'

2 black kids in a playground calling each other *****. White kid then thinks its ok to call them that as they call each other it (kinda like mate..). **** hits the fan. Kinda thing.


Keep it Adult


like Richard Pryor Live did

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its used a lot on GTA V and there is no need for it, thats said I hate swearing too and I wish people would not swear.

[MTVN]

Not at all, like Jesus I always find it a bit confusing why white people would really, it's not like it's a word that's ever been used offensively against them or to label them a second class citizen, and why would a white person even want to use it unless they wanted to be racist given its background as a way to reinforce the superiority of whites over black people?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243829&highlight=super+people

These were Soul Singers 1975
Not rappers

Its a strong sound that, but the singers are bad boys for stinking up that song with the N word. Take that song out of your collection Arista

10 points off Slitherin :nono:

[Crimson Dynamo]

EEny meany minnie mo

be a few on here who used to say the original lyrics

[Z]

EEny meany minnie mo

be a few on here who used to say the original lyrics

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/b/b2/Tigger_happy.jpeg

[Kate!]

I don't like it being used, at all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

When I was little we all used the D word and it was fine.

[Jesus.]

I do think aswell, that it could confuse kids, and make them more likely to say it if that makes sense. So the word will never 'disappear'

2 black kids in a playground calling each other *****. White kid then thinks its ok to call them that as they call each other it (kinda like mate..). **** hits the fan. Kinda thing.

So a couple of white kids get confused in the playground? So what? Any teacher/parent in that situation would see it is a great learning opportunity.

[arista]

Its a strong sound that, but the singers are bad boys for stinking up that song with the N word. Take that song out of your collection Arista

10 points off Slitherin :nono:


Its Great from Chicago 1975

Super Whitties
Super N..........


Its Bliss


10 Outta 10

[Vicky.]

So a couple of white kids get confused in the playground? So what? Any teacher/parent in that situation would see it is a great learning opportunity.

The problem there is, they would be punished for being racist, when they dont even know what they are saying is wrong?

Kids dont have as much understanding of stuff like this as adults do. And explain to a 5 year old that certain people can say one word but its wrong for them to say it...cant see it sinking in tbh

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its Great from Chicago 1975

Super Whitties
Super N..........


Its Bliss


10 Outta 10

No for utter bliss and no swears spin this platter

epEQhxslprE

[Samm]

I don't mind it being used

[Jesus.]

The problem there is, they would be punished for being racist, when they dont even know what they are saying is wrong?

I fear for the home life a child who gets to school age, and doesn't understand that word is not part of every day vocabulary.

[GiRTh]

Not this discussion again. :facepalm:

Jesus is talking the most sense in here. Too many of the other posters dont seem to understand the history of that word and why its so taboo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I fear for the home life a child who gets to school age, and doesn't understand that word is not part of every day vocabulary.

Little North could be that child, listening to his Dad singing in the shower..

[Nedusa]

It's offensive..........plain and simple no matter who uses it !!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not this discussion again. :facepalm:

Jesus is talking the most sense in here. Too many of the other posters dont seem to understand the history of that word and why its so taboo.

Which posters specifically?

[Vicky.]

I fear for the home life a child who gets to school age, and doesn't understand that word is not part of every day vocabulary.

If they have never heard the word before (why should they?) then why would they know it was wrong if they hear it in the playground..out of curiosity?

[Brother Leon]

A White person using the word has negative connotations whether they used it in a friendly manner or not. It's not their fault, but that is history unfortunately. I personally rarely use the word, but it can't be hard to understand why black people generally have took the word back.

[GiRTh]

Which posters specifically?It would be wrong to name names but its clear some posters dont understand the history of the word, the reasons why black people use it as a term of endearment and the reasons why its so taboo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think everyone knows its the most offensive word you can say currently, one that can lose a job in an instant like no other and i think people get pissed off hearing black people use it, but as I said its not like Will Smith is rocking it or Obama - its the idiots only.

[Vicky.]

I think everyone knows its the most offensive word you can say currently, one that can lose a job in an instant like no other and i think people get pissed off hearing black people use it, but as I said its not like Will Smith is rocking it or Obama - its the idiots only.

I dont get pissed off if black people use it at all (however that nicki minaj song that just repeats it over and over takes the piss a bit). I just really dont understand why anyone wants to use it and think some being 'allowed' to makes it more confusing for some others (mainly kids), thats all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It is worth highlighting that the biggest media launch in 2013 was GTA V - bigger than any film. GTA V is played by millions of kids, many under 13, 10, 8 and if they aint playing it then they want to and its strewn with the N word so it will be interesting to see what effect that has on the use of the word and its impact.

[Jesus.]

If they have never heard the word before (why should they?) then why would they know it was wrong if they hear it in the playground..out of curiosity?

How do they know that swear words are wrong?

And if they have never heard it before, then like I said in my previous post, it becomes a fantastic teaching opportunity. Although how a young person could use a word he/she'd never heard before is way out of my comprehension.

The word is out there, in music, films and games, so there is a good chance of them hearing it. It's not a word that should be hidden away from society, but filled with context and discussed.

[Vicky.]

How do they know that swear words are wrong?

And if they have never heard it before, then like I said in my previous post, it becomes a fantastic teaching opportunity. Although how a young person could use a word he/she'd never heard before is way out of my comprehension.

The word is out there, in music, films and games, so there is a good chance of them hearing it. It's not a word that should be hidden away from society, but filled with context and discussed.

As I said, hearing other black kids calling each other it...

Quite like (random word) a kids unlikely to have heard the word homie. Other kids call each other that at school, the kid picks up on it and calls others that. Bad choice as noone says that anymore as far as I am aware but just an example :p

I would love if people were educated about the history and stuff if they incorrectly used it. But thats not what would happen in most cases if we are honest..it would be instant cries of 'racist'...get the parents called in, they are clearly teaching the kids the wrong stuff, etc etc

[Jesus.]

As I said, hearing other black kids calling each other it...

Quite like (random word) a kids unlikely to have heard the word homie. Other kids call each other that at school, the kid picks up on it and calls others that. Bad choice as noone says that anymore as far as I am aware but just an example :p

I would love if people were educated about the history and stuff if they incorrectly used it. But thats not what would happen in most cases if we are honest..it would be instant cries of 'racist'...get the parents called in, they are clearly teaching the kids the wrong stuff, etc etc

So white kid uses word he hears black kid use and gets in trouble. If he was 5, as you used in a previous example, then I doubt he'd be labelled a racist without first asking him where he'd heard that word before. If he said that, then why would he be in trouble? If he said it's what my dad calls the neighbour, then there are obvious issues there.

5 year olds aren't racist.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So white kid uses word he hears black kid use and gets in trouble. If he was 5, as you used in a previous example, then I doubt he'd be labelled a racist without first asking him where he'd heard that word before. If he said that, then why would he be in trouble? If he said it's what my dad calls the neighbour, then there are obvious issues there.

5 year olds aren't racist.

http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/children-parenting-190/primary-school-age-4-11-years-60/543525-5year-old-accused-being-racist-all.html

[Vicky.]

Well you wouldnt think a kid would be called racist, but gavins son was dragged into the headteachers office at 6 years old and branded homophobic for calling another kid a fairy (!)..which I dont see as much different.

Was a interesting meeting once gav and his ex were dragged in, given that half her family are gay and most of Gavins friends are so the kids are surrounded by gay people very often :laugh:

[Z]

So white kid uses word he hears black kid use and gets in trouble. If he was 5, as you used in a previous example, then I doubt he'd be labelled a racist without first asking him where he'd heard that word before. If he said that, then why would he be in trouble? If he said it's what my dad calls the neighbour, then there are obvious issues there.

5 year olds aren't racist.

If you get in trouble and you don't understand why you're in trouble (as is often the case with young kids - part of growing up is learning where the boundaries are) it can go one of two ways - either you learn that what you did/said was wrong and don't do it again or you don't understand why what you did/said was wrong and you do it again to shock people, depending on the child and what was said when they got into trouble. I don't really like the idea of any five year old kids using the word regardless of their race but I've already said in this thread that the word in general makes me uncomfortable because I was taught not to use the word as it's a very loaded, offensive term.

[Jesus.]

http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/children-parenting-190/primary-school-age-4-11-years-60/543525-5year-old-accused-being-racist-all.html

The most concerning thing about that, is you being a member of netmums :umm2:

[GiRTh]

A five year old does not have enough hate to be racist.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The most concerning thing about that, is you being a member of netmums :umm2:

I only am for the good debates:blush:

[Vicky.]

Netmums is quite an underrated site. The debates can get very interesting on there. I am not a member but read it quite often :laugh:

[T*]

Yeah I do because I dont think its fair that only black people can say it and it be okay but if a white/non black person says it, they are racist?

i think thats wrong

its an awful word and if people think its offensive, they shouldn't use it themselves

[2]

[arista]

No for utter bliss and no swears spin this platter

epEQhxslprE


Yes Also Good


Stevie Vocal Solo
best bit

[Vicky.]

If you get in trouble and you don't understand why you're in trouble (as is often the case with young kids - part of growing up is learning where the boundaries are) it can go one of two ways - either you learn that what you did/said was wrong and don't do it again or you don't understand why what you did/said was wrong and you do it again to shock people, depending on the child and what was said when they got into trouble. I don't really like the idea of any five year old kids using the word regardless of their race but I've already said in this thread that the word in general makes me uncomfortable because I was taught not to use the word as it's a very loaded, offensive term.

Exactly. Anyone who thinks a child caught using racist words would be sat down and get a history lesson and everything explained to them properly is fooling themselves IMO. Thats just not how it works..it would be nice if it did, but it doesnt. It would be a bollocking, and a confused child.

I will refer back to gavs youngest for this..got a detention for being homophobic. Came home and said he had got in trouble for 'something about fobic' and a gave his mum letter about it(letter just said a meeting with parents/headteacher a few days later). He didnt know what the hell he was being punished for. We found the best person to explain things to him was his uncle (who is gay himself) and he did kind of understand but this is like..2 days later once the school had actually explained properly what happened.

[arista]

A five year old does not have enough hate to be racist.


Yes they play with adult words
for fun




Great Point Girth.

[Apple202]

i wouldnt use it and wouldnt expect anyone else to, even if they were black

i think the whole 'reclaiming word' thing is stupid (and if it was reclaimed, wouldnt everyone be able to use it??) the whole thing just causes more division then it solves and it'd be better if the word just wasn't used in general

[Apple202]

and on a kind of related note (looking at vickys post) i didnt even know ****** meant gay person until like year 8 lol i just thought it was a random insult throughout all of year 6 and 7

[InOne]

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

[Niamh.]

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

exactly

[Ninastar]

i wouldnt use it and wouldnt expect anyone else to, even if they were black

i think the whole 'reclaiming word' thing is stupid (and if it was reclaimed, wouldnt everyone be able to use it??) the whole thing just causes more division then it solves and it'd be better if the word just wasn't used in general

preach it sista

[Vicky.]

I guess I just dont see why the colour of someones skin should have any bearing on anything in this day and age, even things as silly as who can say what word :shrug:

[Brother Leon]

I guess I just dont see why the colour of someones skin should have any bearing on anything in this day and age, even things as silly as who can say what word :shrug:

I agree usually, but this is obviously a word that was originally used in terms of skin colour anyway and was something used almost exclusively by White people to degrade.

I don't really get the argument over why black people shouldn't want to try change what the word used to mean. It's not like they are going around calling white people Honkeys etc as some form of retribution (that I would disagree with doing of course)

[Z]

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

I think it's a self perpetuating problem. The reclamation of the n word hasn't involved any kind of changing of meaning, compared to, say, homosexuals claiming the word gay - the word had a different meaning and then was claimed by that community to mean something else. The n word will always evoke the intention of a slur because the community that has tried to reclaim it hasn't significantly tried to change the definition of the word or allowed it to be used by people outside of the community. It's a taboo for non-black people to use the word, which is why it's still a problematic term. If there had been a movement for the word to become a term for 'friend' as it's generally intended nowadays, but for use by anyone, I think we'd be in a different place now... but by keeping the word exclusively to the community that it was originally used to slur, it means there's been no real advance in changing how the word is perceived by the world at large, just that within that community the word has been reclaimed.

I don't know if that makes much sense to other people or if I'm articulating myself particularly well but I just see such a huge difference in how the n word has been "reclaimed" (i.e. only for one group of people) and how the term gay, as an example, has been claimed and used in a positive way for everyone to use and move forward with. Before anyone jumps on me for comparing those two things, I'm in no way comparing the struggles of black people to those of gay people, but just comparing how the two words have evolved over the last few decades.

[Vicky.]

I agree usually, but this is obviously a word that was originally used in terms of skin colour anyway and was something used almost exclusively by White people to degrade.

I don't really get the argument over why black people shouldn't want to try change what the word used to mean. It's not like they are going around calling white people Honkeys etc as some form of retribution (that I would disagree with doing of course)

I actually find the word honkey quite funny..and if someone called me that I think I would crack up :laugh:

I get what you are saying though. But in the same tone I think it should be acceptable for white people to say they find the word uncomfortable (given connections) without being called patronizing or similar.

[InOne]

I think it's a self perpetuating problem. The reclamation of the n word hasn't involved any kind of changing of meaning, compared to, say, homosexuals claiming the word gay - the word had a different meaning and then was claimed by that community to mean something else. The n word will always evoke the intention of a slur because the community that has tried to reclaim it hasn't significantly tried to change the definition of the word or allowed it to be used by people outside of the community. It's a taboo for non-black people to use the word, which is why it's still a problematic term. If there had been a movement for the word to become a term for 'friend' as it's generally intended nowadays, but for use by anyone, I think we'd be in a different place now... but by keeping the word exclusively to the community that it was originally used to slur, it means there's been no real advance in changing how the word is perceived by the world at large, just that within that community the word has been reclaimed.

I don't know if that makes much sense to other people or if I'm articulating myself particularly well but I just see such a huge difference in how the n word has been "reclaimed" (i.e. only for one group of people) and how the term gay, as an example, has been claimed and used in a positive way for everyone to use and move forward with. Before anyone jumps on me for comparing those two things, I'm in no way comparing the struggles of black people to those of gay people, but just comparing how the two words have evolved over the last few decades.

But do people use the term 'reclaiming' to describe why they ended up using it? I don't know the progression of how it happened but would be interesting to find out. It's used in all different contexts with black people, not all bad. And I don't see many white people use the word really or probably don't even think about it until topics like this come up. It's almost like a debate that doesn't really need debating. I'm sure there would be campaigns in the black communities if they felt that strongly about other black people using it.

[Vicky.]

It is kinda a non-discussion that gets discussed a lot, I agree :laugh:

[Jesus.]

It's not solely about reclaiming the word to change it's meaning. Simply disarming it is enough, without having white people set the parameters of how black people either should use it, or defining the measures for success of black people using it.

It's pretty simple - if you're white don't use it, if you're black, then it's your choice.

[arista]

I agree usually, but this is obviously a word that was originally used in terms of skin colour anyway and was something used almost exclusively by White people to degrade.

I don't really get the argument over why black people shouldn't want to try change what the word used to mean. It's not like they are going around calling white people Honkeys etc as some form of retribution (that I would disagree with doing of course)


Have you heard that 1975 Chicago Soul Band Track?
Its so Funky Honkey Zee loves it

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243829&highlight=super+people

[arista]

It's not solely about reclaiming the word to change it's meaning. Simply disarming it is enough, without having white people set the parameters of how black people either should use it, or defining the measures for success of black people using it.

It's pretty simple - if you're white don't use it, if you're black, then it's your choice.



Yes play it safe

[Jesus.]

12 years a slave will have to be changed to 12 years as Dave, just to make sure the subject doesn't offend my fellow crackers.

[arista]

12 years a slave will have to be changed to 12 years as Dave, just to make sure the subject doesn't offend my fellow crackers.


DaveHD

[james130]

Yes.......I have a problem with black people using that word.

It is a highly offensive word and is best left to disappear from the urban lexicon. Non black people do not go near that word but if they hear black people using the word in an almost familiar way when describing their best friends or buddies, then it can become confusing to non black people.

They are not sure if the word is taboo or is it just taboo for them which in itself suggests a form of verbal racism.

I don't see young Pakistani's going around calling each other ****'s so I think young black people need to let this word slide into history and move on from trying to "own" the word..........

Agree with this.

[Z]

It's not solely about reclaiming the word to change it's meaning. Simply disarming it is enough, without having white people set the parameters of how black people either should use it, or defining the measures for success of black people using it.

It's pretty simple - if you're white don't use it, if you're black, then it's your choice.

But I don't think it's been adequately disarmed. Within the black community, some black people now use it as a term more along the lines of comrade, friend, brother; but as it's not accepted widely (by virtue of it being exclusively okay for black people to use) the word is therefore still loaded and now it's not clear what it means and depends completely on context and perception. That girl got kicked out of Big Brother for saying the n word despite not using it in a hostile, offensive way which I think sums up the entire problem - it's not clear what the word really means anymore. It's all good and well saying white people shouldn't go near the word as it is, because they shouldn't, but it doesn't help to remove the problematic nature of the word itself.

[Shaun]

I think it's futile arguing that the word should be "forgotten" or "not used any more" because words aren't "forgotten", especially when they carry such weight.

[Z]

I think it's futile arguing that the word should be "forgotten" or "not used any more" because words aren't "forgotten", especially when they carry such weight.

Which is why words need to be shaped to mean something else. I think the n word has a long way to go before it reaches that level and part of the problem is the (understandly) defensive nature that rests over who is and isn't allowed to use the word. By reclaiming it only for a certain group of people, it means for everyone outside of that group the word remains taboo but has a new edge to it because it no longer means just one thing which just makes it more confusing, not clearer.

[Ninastar]

I agree with what you're saying Zee. i just wish i could put it into words as well as you do

[Jesus.]

But I don't think it's been adequately disarmed. Within the black community, some black people now use it as a term more along the lines of comrade, friend, brother; but as it's not accepted widely (by virtue of it being exclusively okay for black people to use) the word is therefore still loaded and now it's not clear what it means and depends completely on context and perception. That girl got kicked out of Big Brother for saying the n word despite not using it in a hostile, offensive way which I think sums up the entire problem - it's not clear what the word really means anymore. It's all good and well saying white people shouldn't go near the word as it is, because they shouldn't, but it doesn't help to remove the problematic nature of the word itself.

The fact that black people use it with each other, and are not having it shouted at them constantly whilst being whipped, means the word is being automatically disarmed, added to the fact it is no longer (rightfully) used in any relationship between white and black people.

I don't know why it's such a big issue for us honkeys to try and retain some control over the context and parameters of the word, and if we don't get those privileges, automatically claim it's not fair.

[Shaun]

I always feel awkward when singing (lol) along to songs that use it :umm2: but I think that's the only instance I've ever felt the need to say it (because then I'm just quoting someone else).

[smeagol]

no one should be allowed to say it , i think its pathetic people jumping up and down screaming people are racist but then they go and use that word themselves then wonder why theres racist people.
There is no reclaiming the word its just a excuse to cause a divide and be different but whats ironic is it took how many to be treated the same. talk about undoing good.
There will never be one world all the time people are finding ways to cause divides.

i find it offensive in every way.

[Me. I Am Salman]

I can't recall a time I've ever used the word. If some Black people want to call each other that then it's up to them. They don't need White people patronising them telling them they shouldn't use it just because they don't like it themselves.

this sums it up

[Z]

The fact that black people use it with each other, and are not having it shouted at them constantly whilst being whipped, means the word is being automatically disarmed, added to the fact it is no longer (rightfully) used in any relationship between white and black people.

I don't know why it's such a big issue for us honkeys to try and retain some control over the context and parameters of the word, and if we don't get those privileges, automatically claim it's not fair.

I'm not saying anything about it being fair or unfair, I'm saying that the word has not been disarmed because it hasn't been. Not all black people are comfortable with using the word because, just like when white people use it, the word conjures up historical grievances that the world has slowly started to move on from. Throwing the word around now without really doing anything to change its meaning to something positive is stalling progress, in my opinion. All it would take is a popular movement to take off to redefine the word, officially, to mean 'friend', a positive campaign that takes the edge off the word. But really, I think the word should be laid to rest. That won't happen of course, it's entered the vernacular of several music genres which ensures the word isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I think that constantly using it without really defining what it means and continuing to have an us vs them attitude with regards to the word is just prolonging the problem when the guilty party has tried its best to make the word taboo and drum it into people that it is no longer okay to use the word. If there is no context and there are no parameters over what the word means, it ensures that the problem continues to exist.

[Kizzy]

I feel that way too zee, it appears it's still rubbing salt into so many wounds and the 'reclaiming' of the word isn't about positivity or strength but highlighting the division that generationally no longer exists.

[Headie]

All you people generalising 'black people say it all the time'... well I never say it and if I ever hear someone else say it I get really annoyed tbh. Don't like the word, although if someone used it to me in a non-hostile way (providing they were black) I wouldn't be too offended, I'd just tell them that I don't use that word.

[Ninastar]

^ i dont think anyone has said that... but i'm glad to hear that you hate the word too

[Livia]

I wouldn't dream of using the word and don't know any white person who would, even in jest to a black person who was a good friend. If black people want to say it, it's up to them. I figure they've earned the right.

[Nedusa]

no one should be allowed to say it , i think its pathetic people jumping up and down screaming people are racist but then they go and use that word themselves then wonder why theres racist people.
There is no reclaiming the word its just a excuse to cause a divide and be different but whats ironic is it took how many to be treated the same. talk about undoing good.
There will never be one world all the time people are finding ways to cause divides.

i find it offensive in every way.

Totally agree.........as I said earlier it is an offensive word and no one should use it. There is no "reclaiming" the word for Black people that's just street talk. Fact is the word is always going to give offence and so should be allowed to fade from use

[Nedusa]

I'm not saying anything about it being fair or unfair, I'm saying that the word has not been disarmed because it hasn't been. Not all black people are comfortable with using the word because, just like when white people use it, the word conjures up historical grievances that the world has slowly started to move on from. Throwing the word around now without really doing anything to change its meaning to something positive is stalling progress, in my opinion. All it would take is a popular movement to take off to redefine the word, officially, to mean 'friend', a positive campaign that takes the edge off the word. But really, I think the word should be laid to rest. That won't happen of course, it's entered the vernacular of several music genres which ensures the word isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I think that constantly using it without really defining what it means and continuing to have an us vs them attitude with regards to the word is just prolonging the problem when the guilty party has tried its best to make the word taboo and drum it into people that it is no longer okay to use the word. If there is no context and there are no parameters over what the word means, it ensures that the problem continues to exist.

:thumbs::thumbs:

[Niamh.]

Totally agree.........as I said earlier it is an offensive word and no one should use it. There is no "reclaiming" the word for Black people that's just street talk. Fact is the word is always going to give offence and so should be allowed to fade from use

Who are white people to decide that though? We weren't the ones it was used against in such a disgusting way. Personally, I think white people should have no say in it at all. I think maybe white people want it to disappear because they don't want to be reminded of what was done to black people at the hands of white people

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its best to just avoid it, its an American problem mainly. America still have a lot to work out that in this country we settled long ago (like abortion).

[Jesus.]

I'm not saying anything about it being fair or unfair, I'm saying that the word has not been disarmed because it hasn't been. Not all black people are comfortable with using the word because, just like when white people use it, the word conjures up historical grievances that the world has slowly started to move on from. Throwing the word around now without really doing anything to change its meaning to something positive is stalling progress, in my opinion. All it would take is a popular movement to take off to redefine the word, officially, to mean 'friend', a positive campaign that takes the edge off the word. But really, I think the word should be laid to rest. That won't happen of course, it's entered the vernacular of several music genres which ensures the word isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I think that constantly using it without really defining what it means and continuing to have an us vs them attitude with regards to the word is just prolonging the problem when the guilty party has tried its best to make the word taboo and drum it into people that it is no longer okay to use the word. If there is no context and there are no parameters over what the word means, it ensures that the problem continues to exist.

The fact that word has been moved from a word that dehumanises black people to a word that is just used by some in the black community is a positive. Redefining words seems a bit nonsensical to me.

No one redefined the words gay or queer for example, they just embraced them in the same way that many black people do. But more than that, it's none of our business. A campaign to redefine the meaning it would be one of the most embarrassingly cringe-inducing things imaginable.

[Nedusa]

Who are white people to decide that though? We weren't the ones it was used against in such a disgusting way. Personally, I think white people should have no say in it at all. I think maybe white people want it to disappear because they don't want to be reminded of what was done to black people at the hands of white people

I agree white people cannot rule on this and black people can use the word if they feel they can move beyond the offensive meaning it has.

Keeping this word alive or "reclaiming" it might be seen as a solution but ultimately the offensive meaning of the word would still be there and I feel black people would never be truly comfortable using it regardless of what meaning or context it now has.

[Z]

The fact that word has been moved from a word that dehumanises black people to a word that is just used by some in the black community is a positive. Redefining words seems a bit nonsensical to me.

No one redefined the words gay or queer for example, they just embraced them in the same way that many black people do. But more than that, it's none of our business. A campaign to redefine the meaning it would be one of the most embarrassingly cringe-inducing things imaginable.

It's a step in the right direction but by being fiercely protective of the word, which I completely understand, it means the word is not truly redefined because only certain people are using its new definition while others (of all different races) still associate the word with its pejorative definition and therefore whenever they hear the term, they find it awkward.

You make a point about embracing the words - the n word has not been embraced by the world at large because it has not been allowed, ownership has been claimed over the word and while I can completely understand why that is, that is also the reason the word has not completely moved on from its negative connotations. If it's none of our business then it wouldn't be a taboo. It's very much all of our business, collectively, the problem hasn't been solved because there are still racist grievances occuring in the world today and white people still have a lot of apologies to be making. It might not be up to us to decide how the word is used but it's certainly down to all of us to make sure that the world moves past the racist, colonial era that created the tension behind the n word.

[Z]

And if the word selfie can enter the dictionary in 2014, I think the n word can have its other definition added to the dictionary too. It's been used in that way for a number of years now. Maybe you think that's cringe worthy but it's how some people use the word, that it hasn't been recognised is proof enough that people are too nervous about the n word to dare mutter it under their breath, which to me shows that there is still a problem there.

[Niall]

No. It's not my place to use that word, and when I do it just perpetuates the privilege I have and further entrenches the inherently racist qualities of that word.

It's just like straight people shouldn't dare use the words '******' or 'dyke'.

They're all words of oppression, and the respective groups of oppressors have no place in using those words if they wish to wish to move on from what's happened in the past.

[Marsh.]

Is this like gay people being allowed to call themselves fags but if a straight person says it they are homophobes? :laugh:

[Vicky.]

I use fag got and queer. To friends mind, who call themselves it, not to randomers :laugh:

[Gstar]

Why am I only just seeing this thread? :s

I try not to say it around non-black people (without a sense of humor), other than that I say it all the time

[Headie]

Why has this thread about black people turned into a discussion about gay friends http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customgroupicons/thumbs/socialgroupicon_251_1393098798.gif

[Gstar]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a8f03c531c605df70cf16a5848a468dc/tumblr_n1qi79iq141rj04xho6_250.gif

[Niall]

Is this like gay people being allowed to call themselves fags but if a straight person says it they are homophobes? :laugh:

Well kinda, yeah. When a straight person says those words, those words take on a new, oppressive context. They become slurs when the historically oppressive group uses them.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the person is homophobic, but that behaviour is sort of homophobic if you follow me.

[GypsyGoth]

It doesn't bother me, it's often used as a term of endearment, like my brother or something.

[user104658]

I don't have a problem with any person using any word.

[Gstar]

just remembered that i've actually got the word in my location :laugh:

[Mystic Mock]

Yes as the word is offensive whoever uses it, it's the same if a white person called another white person a "honkey" it's racist and shouldn't really be tolerated if other ethnicities can't use the words as well.

[user104658]

Yes as the word is offensive whoever uses it, it's the same if a white person called another white person a "honkey" it's racist and shouldn't really be tolerated if other ethnicities can't use the words as well.

Anyone of any ethnicity can call me anything they want to call me. Does that mean I can use the fabled Enn Word?

[Mystic Mock]

Not this discussion again. :facepalm:

Jesus is talking the most sense in here. Too many of the other posters dont seem to understand the history of that word and why its so taboo.

Exactly Girth so why do some black people think it's cool to remind people of this and basically being racist to themselves?

[GypsyGoth]

The word has evolved, it has more than just the racist meaning.

[Marsh.]

Well kinda, yeah. When a straight person says those words, those words take on a new, oppressive context. They become slurs when the historically oppressive group uses them.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the person is homophobic, but that behaviour is sort of homophobic if you follow me.

I follow perfectly, it's that old thing called... what was it.... double standards.

If a word brings with it negative connotations and memories of a less pleasant time for a certain group of people then why on earth would they want to bring it into their vocabulary.

[Me. I Am Salman]

racist to themselves

what

[Me. I Am Salman]

Yes as the word is offensive whoever uses it, it's the same if a white person called another white person a "honkey" it's racist and shouldn't really be tolerated if other ethnicities can't use the words as well.

Similarly I'd say only white people can use that word however way they want to

[Jack_]

No issue whatsoever, and actually I've noticed an increase in its usage recently, there seems to be a hell of a load of vines that include it or have that clip of Kevin Hart saying it. There also seems to be a load of vines centred around 'black girl problems' or 'white girl problems' so I guess you take issue with them, tbh I find them all funny though so :shrug:

But no to answer the question I don't, I could probably count the number of times I've ever used it on one hand though (song lyrics, quoting etc), it's such an...uncomfortable word if its not contextualised properly

[Mystic Mock]

Anyone of any ethnicity can call me anything they want to call me. Does that mean I can use the fabled Enn Word?

If the law says that you can use any word you want then go for it, but as it is at the minute I don't think it's fair that non-white people can't call us "honkeys" but other white people can, and that black people can call each other the n word while non-black people can't.

[Mystic Mock]

what

You can be racist to your own race you know? Just see Derek from BB6 over Science.:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Similarly I'd say only white people can use that word however way they want to

Well I'm sorry but I disagree with that, unless it's equal for everyone to say it then I think it's wrong as in the western world we're all suppose to be equal to one another so having no go zone words for different races, genders, sexualities, or something as silly as hair is completely contradictory to what the western world is trying to be.

[InOne]

I'd never heard of the word 'Honkey' until I listened to Brain Damage by Eminem years ago and didn't even really get it then lol

[Vicky.]

I think I learnt honkey from this forum, and its the only place I have ever seen it used :laugh:

Cracker we get a lot round here, though it appears to mean 'mad' rather than anything else.

[InOne]

I thought white bread was the most common one

[Mystic Mock]

Vanilla can be used in a racial undertone as well, and for black people Hot Chocolate.

[lostalex]

I've never actually heard black people use the N-word around me, i've only seen it on TV and in music.

[GiRTh]

I follow perfectly, it's that old thing called... what was it.... double standards.

If a word brings with it negative connotations and memories of a less pleasant time for a certain group of people then why on earth would they want to bring it into their vocabulary.Its also the same as women calling themselves bitches but if a man uses that word then he's be labelled sexist.

As a man I completely understand why some would find it offensive if I used the word bitch to describe a woman, I understand the offensive nature of the word and I frankly dont want to use. If women want to call each other bitches then I have no issue with that and I wont be complaining about any perceived injustice. What I dont understand is why so many people dont apply this same principle to the n word and so many people simply want to claim some kind of right they feel they have to use the word because say rappers use it or they've heard black people using it.

[Nedusa]

The problem is if Black people use this word and it becomes OK , it becomes more known for it's new meaning then eventually non Black people will start using it for it's new meaning.

There's the problem.... it will always be connected to the offensive meaning it used to have and that offense could still be caused if the word is spoken by someone who is non Black to someone who is Black and not very tolerant of the word.

It will always carry the offensive meaning and for that reason the word needs to be laid to rest in perpetuity..............!!!

[Vicky.]

Its also the same as women calling themselves bitches but if a man uses that word then he's be labelled sexist.

As a man I completely understand why some would find it offensive if I used the word bitch to describe a woman, I understand the offensive nature of the word and I frankly dont want to use. If women want to call each other bitches then I have no issue with that and I wont be complaining about any perceived injustice. What I dont understand is why so many people dont apply this same principle to the n word and so many people simply want to claim some kind of right they feel they have to use the word because say rappers use it or they've heard black people using it.
Really? Never heard of that one at all. I am quite often called a bitch by males, as are most women I know. I never realised it was meant to be a really offensive thing :laugh:

[GiRTh]

Really? Never heard of that one at all. I am quite often called a bitch by males, as are most women I know. I never realised it was meant to be a really offensive thing :laugh:Rappers are labelled misogynists for using the word.

Here's an article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny_in_hip_hop_culture

Common misogynistic themes include the use of derogatory names such as "bitch" and "ho", sexual objectification of women, legitimation of violence against women, distrust of women, and the glorification of prostitution and pimping.

A quote from the article.

[Niamh.]

Rappers are labelled misogynists for using the word.

Here's an article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny_in_hip_hop_culture

I would say as a woman I'd be more offended by *****, slut etc (but at the same time I hate when women call eachother that too)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Language changes

give yourself just 3 mins of this mainstream UK comedy from the 70s

__znyGN3hS0

[GiRTh]

I would say as a woman I'd be more offended by *****, slut etc (but at the same time I hate when women call eachother that too)
Indeed and if I had met with a friend and say his girlfriend or sister and during the course of that he called her a bitch, for whatever reason, I would not start a discussion on why am I not allowed to call her a bitch too. These people have a relationship and a history that I know nothing about and have to respect. I dont see why people cant apply the same principle to the n word.

[Niamh.]

Indeed and if I had met with a friend and say his girlfriend or sister and during the course of that he called her a bitch, for whatever reason, I would not start a discussion on why am I not allowed to call her a bitch too. These people have a relationship and a history that I know nothing about and have to respect. I dont see why people cant apply the same principle to the n word.

I agree with you 100% and my own theory on it is because white people don't like to be reminded of what other white people did to black people in the past and that word is a constant reminder.

[Vicky.]

I dont care if anyone calls me anything really.

But call me a c *** and we will have problems, coz I hate that word :joker:

[Vicky.]

I agree with you 100% and my own theory on it is because white people don't like to be reminded of what other white people did to black people in the past and that word is a constant reminder.

Honesty, I dont think many people really associate that word with history. I think the reason so many find it uncomfortable is that they have grown up being told it is unacceptable and must be avoided at all costs.

[Niamh.]

Honesty, I dont think many people really associate that word with history. I think the reason so many find it uncomfortable is that they have grown up being told it is unacceptable and must be avoided at all costs.

Do you not think so? hhmmm I would that's for sure, you know especially from watching films on slavery and things like that

[Vicky.]

Do you not think so? hhmmm I would that's for sure, you know especially from watching films on slavery and things like that

I have never associated the word with slavery and stuff. Not quite sure why. I have always known not to say it, nor do I want to say it..but from being young I have just known its a bad word..not a bad word like swearing that you say just to be 'bad' when young...but a bad word that is never to be said :S

Mind you, I'm not one for history fullstop. I appreciate it means a lot to some people and some things our nation did were horrendous. But the way I see it is that thats over with today. I guess that might be why I dont find bitch, *****, etc offensive. Because sexism, while massive years back, is not really that common at all in this day and age, so I dont see why I should hold what men did years ago against men who are here today :shrug:

[Ammi]

I have never associated the word with slavery and stuff. Not quite sure why. I have always known not to say it, nor do I want to say it..but from being young I have just known its a bad word..not a bad word like swearing that you say just to be 'bad' when young...but a bad word that is never to be said :S

Mind you, I'm not one for history fullstop. I appreciate it means a lot to some people and some things our nation did were horrendous. But the way I see it is that thats over with today. I guess that might be why I dont find bitch, *****, etc offensive. Because sexism, while massive years back, is not really that common at all in this day and age, so I dont see why I should hold what men did years ago against men who are here today :shrug:

..I guess the difference is with sexism/homophobia etc is that it's not a race of people ..?...

[Niamh.]

I have never associated the word with slavery and stuff. Not quite sure why. I have always known not to say it, nor do I want to say it..but from being young I have just known its a bad word..not a bad word like swearing that you say just to be 'bad' when young...but a bad word that is never to be said :S

Mind you, I'm not one for history fullstop. I appreciate it means a lot to some people and some things our nation did were horrendous. But the way I see it is that thats over with today. I guess that might be why I dont find bitch, *****, etc offensive. Because sexism, while massive years back, is not really that common at all in this day and age, so I dont see why I should hold what men did years ago against men who are here today :shrug:

I don't see how it's holding anything against anyone though

[Vicky.]

..I guess the difference is with sexism/homophobia etc is that it's not a race of people ..?...
Well yeah, but its still the same kind of thing. Its all about previous oppression.
I don't see how it's holding anything against anyone though

By getting mad at a bloke who calls you a bitch today..because of sexism years ago, I would say that is holding it against them, despite it having nothing to do with them

I feel I need to be clear here, I am not getting at people who still feel history is very important. The stuff we did was awful and shouldnt really be forgotten. I am just giving my personal opinion about history not particularly mattering to ME.

[Crimson Dynamo]

are black people a race? black is just a lazy way to describe anyone who isnt white

[Niamh.]

Well yeah, but its still the same kind of thing. Its all about previous oppression.


By getting mad at a bloke who calls you a bitch today..because of sexism years ago, I would say that is holding it against them, despite it having nothing to do with them

I feel I need to be clear here, I am not getting at people who still feel history is very important. The stuff we did was awful and shouldnt really be forgotten. I am just giving my personal opinion about history not particularly mattering to ME.

well tbh I'd be getting mad at guy for calling me a bitch just because he was insulting me though not because of sexism or what men in the past did :laugh:

[Nedusa]

No black or Negroid is one of the 3 main racial types

The others are Mongoloid and Caucasian

[Crimson Dynamo]

So Indians are Caucasian

so why is black the only race term we actually use?

[Vicky.]

well tbh I'd be getting mad at guy for calling me a bitch just because he was insulting me though not because of sexism or what men in the past did :laugh:

This is probably where we differ a lot :laugh:

I am constantly abused by my male friends, thats just how they are with everyone. I think its just the area I am from tbh. Its done jokingly like, and it never bothers me, but some of the names they call me (and me them) are quite harsh and people listening in would possibly get offended at times.

I don't even particularly care if randomers call me stuff either

I guess everything just comes down to the sort of person you are, and the people you are surrounded by daily :S

[GiRTh]

are black people a race? black is just a lazy way to describe anyone who isnt white:facepalm:

[Niamh.]

This is probably where we differ a lot :laugh:

I am constantly abused by my male friends, thats just how they are with everyone. I think its just the area I am from tbh. Its done jokingly like, and it never bothers me, but some of the names they call me (and me them) are quite harsh

I don't even particularly care if randomers call me stuff either

I guess everything just comes down to the sort of person you are, and the people you are surrounded by daily :S

Oh in a jokey way? I thought you meant seriously, no i wouldn't be offended by that (assuming they were an actual friend of mine of course)

[Vicky.]

Oh in a jokey way? I thought you meant seriously, no i wouldn't be offended by that (assuming they were an actual friend of mine of course)

Even in an argument with a stranger, I wouldnt think he was being misogynistic or whatever if he called me a bitch, or a *****. Tbh he could call me anything, except a c *** :joker:

[Kizzy]

Language changes

give yourself just 3 mins of this mainstream UK comedy from the 70s

__znyGN3hS0

Wow... It's mad to think that saying half of that would see you in prison now, I don't know how I feel about that.
The show does highlight the fact that there are those who have a problem and those who don't, just like today except now you can't vocalise it.. doesn't mean it's necessarily gone away though.
I bet then though calling each other nword would have seemed ridiculous.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:facepalm:

The term black people is an everyday English-language phrase, often used in socially-based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity to describe persons who are defined as belonging to a "black" ethnicity in their particular country, typically having a degree of Sub-Saharan African ancestry, or who are perceived to be dark-skinned relative to other "racial groups".

Different societies, such as Australia, Brazil, the United Kingdom, the United States and South Africa apply differing criteria regarding who is classified as "black", and these criteria have also varied over time. In some countries, social variables affect classification as much as skin-color, and the social criteria for "blackness" vary. For example, in North America the term black people is not necessarily an indicator of skin color or ethnic origin but is more of a socially-based racial classification related to being African American, with a family history related to institutionalized slavery. In South Africa, mixed-race people are not considered to be "black", and in other regions, such as Australia and Melanesia, the term "black" has been applied to, and used by, populations with a very different history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

[Nedusa]

So Indians are Caucasian

so why is black the only race term we actually use?

Yes Indians are Caucasian.......

But the 3 groups have interbred over the millenia to produce the huge variety of skin tones and features seen in the world today.


Technically we should use the other terms White and Yellow but as I said there is such a mixture even in the Black group there are many colours from jet black through brown to very light brown etc....

At the end of the day we are all people and I for one would like to see the end of these terms ie ..."that black guy"

Why do we have to know the guy is black ? Why ?

What diff does it make to anything.........??

[Niamh.]

Even in an argument with a stranger, I wouldnt think he was being misogynistic or whatever if he called me a bitch, or a *****. Tbh he could call me anything, except a c *** :joker:

I wouldn't see bitch as being misogynistic really, I see that as the feminine of bastard :laugh: What does annoy me though is when a man is insulting a woman, we'll say a woman driver for example and he specifically refers to the fact that she's a woman. Like I could be in the car with Gav and a woman will do something and he'll specifically say stupid woman or whatever, yet he'll have just as many instances with male drivers but they're assholes or whatever and gender never comes into it, annoys the **** out of me ...............ok I'm completely gone offtopic here now

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes Indians are Caucasian.......

But the 3 groups have interbred over the millenia to produce the huge variety of skin tones and features seen in the world today.


Technically we should use the other terms White and Yellow but as I said there is such a mixture even in the Black group there are many colours from jet black through brown to very light brown etc....

At the end of the day we are all people and I for one would like to see the end of these terms ie ..."that black guy"

Why do we have to know the guy is black ? Why ?

What diff does it make to anything.........??


I can see a time, in this lifetime, when the word black will not be accepted

[Redway]

Nope, not arsed. It makes sense that some blacks want to reclaim the word within context and I don't get why some whites deem it unfair like they're missing out on using it. Looking at the history of it why would any white person think it's okay for them to use it?

[GiRTh]

The term black people is an everyday English-language phrase, often used in socially-based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity to describe persons who are defined as belonging to a "black" ethnicity in their particular country, typically having a degree of Sub-Saharan African ancestry, or who are perceived to be dark-skinned relative to other "racial groups".

Different societies, such as Australia, Brazil, the United Kingdom, the United States and South Africa apply differing criteria regarding who is classified as "black", and these criteria have also varied over time. In some countries, social variables affect classification as much as skin-color, and the social criteria for "blackness" vary. For example, in North America the term black people is not necessarily an indicator of skin color or ethnic origin but is more of a socially-based racial classification related to being African American, with a family history related to institutionalized slavery. In South Africa, mixed-race people are not considered to be "black", and in other regions, such as Australia and Melanesia, the term "black" has been applied to, and used by, populations with a very different history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_peopleThese criteria have also varied over time You've answered your question in the article you quote.

[Nedusa]

I can see a time, in this lifetime, when the word black will not be accepted

I agree.......why do we have to prefix somebody with a skin colour

It used to be the word coloured or coloured's then it became black


Surely only if it was necessary to describe the person in question would you need to say "black" why use it as a descriptive term in the first instance ?

some might agree that that in itself is racist !!!

[Z]

Sometimes it's necessary to distinguish somebody's race, i.e. in a discussion like this, so no, it's not always 'racist' to refer to someone by their skin colour. It's descriptive, not racist. If you want to press on with that logic then we can't call people fat if they're fat, even if it's that one of the first things you'd think of when you were describing someone who was overweight. :shrug:

I don't think anyone in this thread has said it's "unfair" that white people "can't" use the n word. The problem is that if a black person says it to another black person, obviously it's not (well, usually not) intended as a racial slur, it means something else. What exactly it means hasn't been officially defined by any dictionaries as far as I know, but it doesn't mean what it used to mean. If a white person said it to a black person, they might intend it in the same way but by virtue of their race, it will come across as a racial slur. That's why I'm of the opinion that the word should either be put to rest or there should be some kind of drive to change what the word means, to properly reclaim it. Having it floating about in this limbo stage where it means something else to some people but not to everyone means that the world at large cannot move on from the historical past of the word. It's up to black people where to go from here with the word. Stay as things are and racism will never go away, it'll always be around us. Try and progress and things can only get better. The civil rights movement didn't just stop when slavery was abolished.

[Ninastar]

^^^ :worship: :worship: :worship:

[Nedusa]

Sometimes it's necessary to distinguish somebody's race, i.e. in a discussion like this, so no, it's not always 'racist' to refer to someone by their skin colour. It's descriptive, not racist. If you want to press on with that logic then we can't call people fat if they're fat, even if it's that one of the first things you'd think of when you were describing someone who was overweight. :shrug:

I don't think anyone in this thread has said it's "unfair" that white people "can't" use the n word. The problem is that if a black person says it to another black person, obviously it's not (well, usually not) intended as a racial slur, it means something else. What exactly it means hasn't been officially defined by any dictionaries as far as I know, but it doesn't mean what it used to mean. If a white person said it to a black person, they might intend it in the same way but by virtue of their race, it will come across as a racial slur. That's why I'm of the opinion that the word should either be put to rest or there should be some kind of drive to change what the word means, to properly reclaim it. Having it floating about in this limbo stage where it means something else to some people but not to everyone means that the world at large cannot move on from the historical past of the word. It's up to black people where to go from here with the word. Stay as things are and racism will never go away, it'll always be around us. Try and progress and things can only get better. The civil rights movement didn't just stop when slavery was abolished.

I agree with the points you raise...........I would however suggest this particular debate about the use of a word belies deeper more entrenched views about people in general. inserting the word black into a conversation about something somebody said or did (assuming they are black) is in my view unnecessary in the context of that particular verbal exchange.

Why do we need to know the person is black at the beginning of the conversation ? what bearing does it have on the topic being discussed ie what that person said or did etc...

Seems to me we almost without question have to prefix the start of conversations about people with the phrase eg...

"I was talking to this black guy" or "I met this black woman" ....???

Why is it so important we know their skin colour before we know anything else about them ?

For me this is a form on innate racism where we then modify our thoughts about this or that person in line with our in built stereotypes of black people.

Why can't we just treat people as people and if it transpires they have slightly darker skin than their white skinned counterparts.. then so What !!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

I agree with the points you raise...........I would however suggest this particular debate about the use of a word belies deeper more entrenched views about people in general. inserting the word black into a conversation about something somebody said or did (assuming they are black) is in my view unnecessary in the context of that particular verbal exchange.

Why do we need to know the person is black at the beginning of the conversation ? what bearing does it have on the topic being discussed ie what that person said or did etc...

Seems to me we almost without question have to prefix the start of conversations about people with the phrase eg...

"I was talking to this black guy" or "I met this black woman" ....???

Why is it so important we know their skin colour before we know anything else about them ?

For me this is a form on innate racism where we then modify our thoughts about this or that person in line with our in built stereotypes of black people.

Why can't we just treat people as people and if it transpires they have slightly darker skin than their white skinned counterparts.. then so What !!!!


What we need is a great big melting pot..

[Nedusa]

Racism will eventually become a thing of the past in any case.

The Human race will eventually interbreed so much so that we will all be coffee coloured and that will be that.................!!!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Racism will eventually become a thing of the past in any case.

The Human race will eventually interbreed so much so that we will all be coffee coloured and that will be that.................!!!!!

like what happens to Plasticine after a while:joker:

[Nedusa]

like what happens to Plasticine after a while:joker:

Exactly.... I couldn't put it any better.

[Z]

I agree with the points you raise...........I would however suggest this particular debate about the use of a word belies deeper more entrenched views about people in general. inserting the word black into a conversation about something somebody said or did (assuming they are black) is in my view unnecessary in the context of that particular verbal exchange.

Why do we need to know the person is black at the beginning of the conversation ? what bearing does it have on the topic being discussed ie what that person said or did etc...

Seems to me we almost without question have to prefix the start of conversations about people with the phrase eg...

"I was talking to this black guy" or "I met this black woman" ....???

Why is it so important we know their skin colour before we know anything else about them ?

For me this is a form on innate racism where we then modify our thoughts about this or that person in line with our in built stereotypes of black people.

Why can't we just treat people as people and if it transpires they have slightly darker skin than their white skinned counterparts.. then so What !!!!

I agree with you but I don't think this particular debate has anything to do with people using the word black to describe someone unnecessarily. We are specifically talking about divides between people based around this word and the divide is along racial lines, so it's necessary here. More generally speaking, however, I agree with you - referring to someone as black when it's not necessary is a bizarre thing to do and is perhaps an innate form of racism.

[Vicky.]

Yeah..I dont quite get it when people say 'oh I saw a black guy on a bus today and...' or something.

However I understand using colour as a descriptive term. I wouldnt think twice of pointing someone out in a crowd for example using their colour..no matter what colour they were. To me it makes much more sense than being all 'the guy with the dark hair. The guy in the jeans...with the red top on...who just scratched his nose...' about it :laugh:

[Z]

Yeah..I dont quite get it when people say 'oh I saw a black guy on a bus today and...' or something.

However I understand using colour as a descriptive term. I wouldnt think twice of pointing someone out in a crowd for example using their colour..no matter what colour they were. To me it makes much more sense than being all 'the guy with the dark hair. The guy in the jeans...with the red top on...who just scratched his nose...' about it :laugh:

Exactly this. If I'm looking for friends in a crowd "I'll meet you by the really tall guy with the curly black hair and the green jacket on" - I'm not going to try and find another way to describe him if that's what makes him stand out. I wouldn't say "the Chinese looking one" if I was lost in Tiananmen Square looking for a friend, to put it the other way round.

[Nedusa]

Exactly this. If I'm looking for friends in a crowd "I'll meet you by the really tall guy with the curly black hair and the green jacket on" - I'm not going to try and find another way to describe him if that's what makes him stand out. I wouldn't say "the Chinese looking one" if I was lost in Tiananmen Square looking for a friend, to put it the other way round.

I agree if you're describing someone then yes of course it's the obvious feature , but if you're referring to something that person has said or any conversation that doesn't require the person initially to be described, then why prefix your first comment with .... This black guy I was talking to or this black woman showed me the directions to..... ???

I mean why is necessary to know their skin colour in those circumstances ?

Yet a lot of people do this all the time as if we need to know their colour so our responses are selective based on skin colour .

Isn't that a form of racism ??

[Niall]

I follow perfectly, it's that old thing called... what was it.... double standards.

If a word brings with it negative connotations and memories of a less pleasant time for a certain group of people then why on earth would they want to bring it into their vocabulary.

Nah. Not double standards at all really.

Ameliorating a slur is a long process that's kind of integral to elevating a minority out of oppression. The word has to be reclaimed by that minority and its meaning redefined by them to properly break down its last entrenched vestiges of linguistic oppression.

[Vicky.]

Nah. Not double standards at all really.

Ameliorating a slur is a long process that's kind of integral to elevating a minority oppression. The word has to be reclaimed by that minority and its meaning redefined by them to properly break down its last entrenched vestiges of linguistic oppression.

Write this out again once you have vomited the thesaurus back up please :laugh:

[Niall]

Write this out again once you have vomited the thesaurus back up please :laugh:

:joker::joker::joker: Sorry I get so wordy sometimes I can't control myself.

But in essence: to de-slur a slur, the minority has to work to remove its negativity by reclaiming it. The oppressors shouldn't use it because that just reinforces its historic prejudice. :spin2:

[Kizzy]

:joker::joker::joker: Sorry I get so wordy sometimes I can't control myself.

But in essence: to make de-slur a slur, the minority has to work to remove its negativity by reclaiming it. The oppressors shouldn't use it because that just reinforces its historic prejudice. :spin2:

You say this like it's a thing... when has it ever occurred before this reclamation?

[GypsyGoth]

The word "queer" is an example.

[Kizzy]

The word "queer" is an example.

Do a lot of gay people call themselves queer?

[GypsyGoth]

Well the word was once used as an insult. And now there are things like Queer Studies and Queer Theory. The meaning of the word has been successfully changed.

[Kizzy]

But is it's use reserved specifically for gay people or can anyone discuss queer theory?

[GypsyGoth]

But is it's use reserved specifically for gay people or can anyone discuss queer theory?

Anyone can discuss it, like feminist theory, it's just a another way talk about the culture around us.

The word queer has evolved past the part where a minority community reclaim it. That part was achieved. So to compare this to the n-word. That is still at the stage where a minority are reclaiming it.

[lostalex]

Queer isn't really about gay or straight. people who have a foot fetish are "queer". people who are polygamists are "queer", asexuals are "queer".

[blackmagicwoman]

I am black and I'm too old to be offended with petty descriptions. However I used racial slurs with my associates in close too. No biggy. V!

[lostalex]

If I as a white man, call a chinese guy the N-word, is that offensive?

I guess it's like the Eminem argument, that when he calls people f**got in his songs, it's okay as long as they aren't gay, right? so i can call people the N-word as long as they aren't black, right?

[Niall]

Anyone can discuss it, like feminist theory, it's just a another way talk about the culture around us.

The word queer has evolved past the part where a minority community reclaim it. That part was achieved. So to compare this to the n-word. That is still at the stage where a minority are reclaiming it.

This is precisely what I mean.

[lostalex]

to be fair, black men are one of the least discriminated groups in the US. Let US REMEMBER IN AMERICAN HISTORY, black men had the right to vote before white women. and gay people still don't have equal rights./ So black men might complain the most, but they most certainly are not the most discriminated against minority.

the squeaky wheel always gets the grease though.

[Kizzy]

Anyone can discuss it, like feminist theory, it's just a another way talk about the culture around us.

The word queer has evolved past the part where a minority community reclaim it. That part was achieved. So to compare this to the n-word. That is still at the stage where a minority are reclaiming it.

I see that to a certain extent but I think queer is too broad a term to be specifically offensive, and not a term designed to describe gays in the same way 'N' was for black people.

[Ninastar]

I see that to a certain extent but I think queer is too broad a term to be specifically offensive, and not a term designed to describe gays in the same way 'N' was for black people.

i actually agree... I think they way both words are used nowadays are entirely different.

[lostalex]

i think we should just talk about discrimination, period. who cares which minority, discrimination is discrimination. equal rights is equal rights. any mistreatment of minorities is unacceptable imo. gay, black, disabled, female, whatever the minority is, all discrimination is equally wrong.

[lostalex]

to answer the original question though, do i care about who says what words? no.

I care about people mistreating other human beings.

[Marsh.]

Nah. Not double standards at all really.

Ameliorating a slur is a long process that's kind of integral to elevating a minority out of oppression. The word has to be reclaimed by that minority and its meaning redefined by them to properly break down its last entrenched vestiges of linguistic oppression.

:joker: Bollocks.

You're not blind siding me with your fancy words. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

F me

are they still saying it?

Its been like 3 days

[Kyle]

Just out of curiosity how 'black' can you be to be able to qualify for saying that word?

Like, If your great, great Gran was an African American are you allowed to say it?

[Nedusa]

Just out of curiosity how 'black' can you be to be able to qualify for saying that word?

Like, If your great, great Gran was an African American are you allowed to say it?

OH..no I fear this Thread is about to take off again...

How Black is Black to be able to own the "N" word.....

Perhaps if you can trace your ancestry back to Africa ??

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just out of curiosity how 'black' can you be to be able to qualify for saying that word?

Like, If your great, great Gran was an African American are you allowed to say it?

Good question that

I mean could Andi Peters get away with using it?
http://www.jamiesawyer.co.uk/communities/1/004/006/204/791/images/4518066211.jpg

[GiRTh]

I thought this was a serious debate?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I thought this was a serious debate?

The question just how black do you have to be to get away with the N word is a good debate and i doubt can be answered easily.

(we have mods for marking threads so take some time off to join in):spin:

[GiRTh]

The question just how black do you have to be to get away with the N word is a good debate and i doubt can be answered easily.

(we have mods for marking threads so take some time off to join in):spin:
Its a stupid question. Do you think people qualify to use the word do you? You're clearly not taking this very seriously.

[Marsh.]

Well clearly you have to qualify considering only specific people can use it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its a stupid question. Do you think people qualify to use the word do you? You're clearly not taking this very seriously.

I am taking it as seriously as one can about a word that is generally used by the uneducated and or numpty rappers who should know better.

[GiRTh]

Even those people who 'qualify' may find themselves on the end of an angry exchange if they use it.

Too many people on this forum seem to think this word is used by just about every black person. It isnt. Even in my family there are people who will not use that word and if they do they will get an angry response. If you guys think that there is just some kind of qualification that you have to pass then you're free to say ***** at will then you clearly dont understand the history, impact and divisive nature of the word.

[GiRTh]

I am taking it as seriously as one can about a word that is generally used by the uneducated and or numpty rappers who should know better.You dont know what you're talking about.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Even those people who 'qualify' may find themselves on the end of an angry exchange if they use it.

Too many people on this forum seem to think this word is used by just about every black person. It isnt. Even in my family there are people who will not use that word and if they do they will get an angry response. If you guys think that there is just some kind of qualification that you have to pass then you're free to say ***** at will then you clearly dont understand the history, impact and divisive nature of the word.

This thread has repeatedly stated that
1. its an american thing
2. its a words used by the poorly educated and lower social scale sector
3. Its used by idiot rappers and in games like GTA

No one is saying that its prevalent in the UK or that most black people use it.

dismount your high horse and read the thread

[Crimson Dynamo]

You dont know what you're talking about.

see above

[GiRTh]

This thread has repeatedly stated that
1. its an american thing
2. its a words used by the poorly educated and lower social scale sector
3. Its used by idiot rappers and in games like GTA

No one is saying that its prevalent in the UK or that most black people use it.

dismount your high horse and read the thread

1. It isnt just an American thing. Its a west Indian thing too

2. You could say that of any taboo word. I dont see the point you;re making there

3. So what. What are you saying. Why does that matter.

Dont tell me about any kind of high horse until you understand the subject. Which you clearly dont.

[Crimson Dynamo]

1. It isnt just an American thing. Its a west Indian thing too

2. You could say that of any taboo word. I dont see the point you;re making there

3. So what. What are you saying. Why does that matter.

Dont tell me about any kind of high horse until you understand the subject. Which you clearly dont.

I understand it and understand your constant need to tell me i dont

[Niamh.]

This thread is getting ridiculous now tbqh, I'm baffled why any white person feels the need to even argue about it, it's not like you would ever use that word anyway, why do you care if black people do or not, how does it effect you in anyway

[GiRTh]

I understand it and understand your constant need to tell me i dontYou didnt answer the points I made. Why does it matter that rappers use it? What makes you think its just an American thing? I dont think you do understand but I'll stop reminding you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You didnt answer the points I made. Why does it matter that rappers use it? What makes you think its just an American thing? I dont think you do understand but I'll stop reminding you.

Its mainly an American thing due to numbers and history but noone has stated its exclusive. No one said that rappers using it mattered only that they did.

oh and having a rather "obvious" avatar doth not make you the resident MLK round here

[GiRTh]

Its mainly an American thing due to numbers and history but noone has stated its exclusive. No one said that rappers using it mattered only that they did.

oh and having a rather "obvious" avatar doth not make you the resident MLK round hereMy Avatar has got nothing to do with anything. My avatar is an iconic image of the 20th century why do you say differently?

You acted like it mattered that rappers use it now you say it doesnt. OK then why mention it in the first place? Surely cuz you thought it was a relevant point to make. You've confused me.

[Z]

This thread is getting ridiculous now tbqh, I'm baffled why any white person feels the need to even argue about it, it's not like you would ever use that word anyway, why do you care if black people do or not, how does it effect you in anyway

Because people constantly using the word without properly redefining what it means when they say it means that the word is still around, therefore we can't move on from it as a collective society until either the word stops getting thrown about or it means something else and it becomes okay for people to use it in the new meaning without people thinking they mean it in the old one. I don't necessarily mean white people - plenty of black people hate to hear the word because of what it conjures up. So either the word is eradicated altogether or its meaning needs to be changed. Having it in this weird limbo stage where it sort of means something else, and can only be used by a small section of society, but is used in mainstream media accessed by people of all backgrounds, means that it can't be discussed by the world at large even though it affects all of us.

I don't want to use the word but I want to be able to discuss it without the conversation turning immediately to black people vs white people and getting into a discussion about racism. That is precisely why the word needs redefining. When it's used in songs that reach a global market, people are not using the n word to slur black people, are they? But if a non-black person used the word, the assumption would be that it is a slur, even though they're intending it in the way that it's being used in music. That's a problem, in my opinion.

[MTVN]

'We' don't have to do anything tbh, if black people want to have a discussion about what it means and so forth that's up to them, but it isn't up to white people to set the terms for the use of a word that they used to oppress black people for years and treat as their inferiors

[Crimson Dynamo]

'We' don't have to do anything tbh, if black people want to have a discussion about what it means and so forth that's up to them, but it isn't up to white people to set the terms for the use of a word that they used to oppress black people for years and treat as their inferiors

Some white people did, not white people

[MTVN]

Perhaps so yet all white people received the benefit of it, considering it was accepted and official practice for white people, as a race, to be treated better and receive privileges that black people didn't

I'm sure there were cases where some white people were worse off than a small minority of black people, but it isn't really worth the distinction

[Kyle]

Just how much time has to pass before the 'shame' of slavery can stop being thrown in the faces of white people?

[Me. I Am Salman]

Just how much time has to pass before the 'shame' of slavery can stop being thrown in the faces of white people?

maybe people will stop their criticism when white people stop trying to control what black people say. or maybe when white previlege is abolished

[Crimson Dynamo]

maybe people will stop their criticism when white people stop trying to control what black people say. or maybe when white previlege is abolished

I am not sure Obama would agree with you there

[Brother Leon]

Just how much time has to pass before the 'shame' of slavery can stop being thrown in the faces of white people?

It's a vital part of history. One that isn't discussed anywhere near as much as it should be in schools or even in general if anything. Compare it to the coverage Holocaust etc gets. No one is telling White people in 2014 to be "ashamed", but it's never going to be forgotten really is it?
---

Not sure why the thread has so many posts anyway. :laugh:

[Z]

'We' don't have to do anything tbh, if black people want to have a discussion about what it means and so forth that's up to them, but it isn't up to white people to set the terms for the use of a word that they used to oppress black people for years and treat as their inferiors

'We' can't do anything, you're right, but it's a word that is used in mainstream culture so 'we' can't ignore it either. :shrug:

[Jake.]

It's a vital part of history. One that isn't discussed anywhere near as much as it should be in schools or even in general if anything. Compare it to the coverage Holocaust etc gets. No one is telling White people in 2014 to be "ashamed", but it's never going to be forgotten really is it?
---

Not sure why the thread has so many posts anyway. :laugh:

I agree to a certain extent, but it's not as if classes are filled with nazis.. I get that children of all races should be educated on such parts of history, but the age is a vital factor. Younger children might not be able to grasp the concept of how things have changed since then.