More than 600 people ignore 'lost child' in TV experiment...

[Ammi]

..I saw this video the other day but missed the TV programme last night..do you think that people generally are too afraid of possible misinterpretations to offer help anymore..?...



R5aIpUVAwZs

[arista]

Wrong LOADS could see the camera and crew.


One angry woman phoned LBC
and said she did not want to be on TV

[Nedusa]

Complete waste of time as a social experiment as camera crew were clearly visible so it was obviously a set up. Also people walking past would not know the objective of the programme and with foresight would have assumed it was better not to get drawn into an unpredictable TV programme.

[arista]

Complete waste of time as a social experiment as camera crew were clearly visible so it was obviously a set up. Also people walking past would not know the objective of the programme and with foresight would have assumed it was better not to get drawn into an unpredictable TV programme.



Yes its almost like they had to make sure
they could ALL see the camera crew.


That one biddie that walked back
knew full well the woman with Big Headphones was going towards her.



ITN - Ch5 Worst ever crap set up

[Roy Mars III]

help no one, trust no one

[Ammi]

Yes its almost like they had to make sure
they could ALL see the camera crew.


That one biddie that walked back
knew full well the woman with Big Headphones was going towards her.



ITN - Ch5 Worst ever crap set up

..maybe it's because they had to be more visible to reassure the children and also to make sure no one actually did try to abduct them..?...

[Crimson Dynamo]

It was London wasnt it?

[Ammi]

It was London wasnt it?

..I believe so...

[Crimson Dynamo]

..I believe so...

Figures..

[Ammi]

Figures..

..ok..:laugh:..

[MTVN]

When I read about this most of the top comments on the DM article were how everyone would be too scared to help these days because they might be labelled a paedophile. I do think that's a fair fear to some extent, kids themselves are all taught about 'stranger danger' and stuff, and imagine if someone innocently went to help the kid and try and get them to somewhere safe and the mother could come back and start screaming her head off, everyone around would think they were trying to abduct them

[Cherie]

It was London wasnt it?

Have you lived in London?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Have you lived in London?

Yes, st johns wood, little venice, richmond

[Cherie]

Yes, st johns wood, little venice, richmond

Richmond isn't London :hmph:

Surprised you have such a dim view then. Take Woolwich for instance, did people ignore that!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Richmond isn't London :hmph:

Surprised you have such a dim view then. Take Woolwich for instance, did people ignore that!

You can stand in Richmond park and look at the whole of London.:hmph:

You cant really compare a small child looking lost to a man being butchered with machetes!

[Cherie]

You can stand in Richmond park and look at the whole of London.:hmph:

You cant really compare a small child looking lost to a man being butchered with machetes!

a small child looking lost with a team of cameras around her, Londoners are not stupid! Neither of them looked distressed either they should have found better actresses!

[arista]

..maybe it's because they had to be more visible to reassure the children and also to make sure no one actually did try to abduct them..?...



But it Failed to work
to many did not want to go on TV


Just that one biddie - who walked back,
thinking I will go on TV

[arista]

Richmond isn't London :hmph:

Surprised you have such a dim view then. Take Woolwich for instance, did people ignore that!



Why The FECK is it on our Underground
then?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Richmond_station_signage_2012.JPG

Fare Zone 4

[Z]

1) Obvious camera crew
2) Children aren't obviously distressed
3) Children haven't tried to ask anyone for help, which I think they would if they were genuinely lost and couldn't find the person that was meant to be looking after them (crying or asking "I can't find my mummy can you help me?")
4) Fear of being labelled as some kind of paedophile for stopping to talk to a lone child

So yes I can see why they would assume #4 is the reason why so many people ignored the kids but I'd say 1-3 are more likely to be the combination of reasons why nobody stopped. If I saw a little kid by themselves in a public space, crying their eyes out, I would stop and check they were okay. But of course then you're going to have to take them to the nearest point where there are security guys or people with access to an intercom system and you risk looking like you're leading a child away a la the Bulger case...

[Vanessa]

Richmond is in London. I used to work there.

[Crimson Dynamo]

its 8 miles from charing x

[Nedusa]

I think the reason a lot of men didn't talk to these children is because if they did and the parent saw them with their child and by this time could be frantic with worry, they would naturally assume this person was the abductor.

Emotions could run wild police could be called and this innocent man could then be subjected to all manner of allegations and possible charges.

It is not really too difficult to see why most reasonably intelligent men would NOT risk approaching this young girl.

[Livia]

I remember a couple of years ago, finding a little girl of about... I don't know, 3? wandering around the supermarket on her own crying quite loudly. I picked her up so we could look around for her Mum. Suddenly her mother came flying up and snatched the child out of my hands with a look on her face like I was going to abduct her. Not a thank you... nothing. It's easy to see why people don't get involved.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If that had been Italy tons of people would have stopped. That is for sure.

[Vanessa]

If that had been Italy tons of people would have stopped. That is for sure.

Yes, that's true.

[Kazanne]

Time to mention The Liverpool 38 again Ammi,38 people who ignored James Bulger even when he was clearly distressed,38 people who spoke to them and still did not intervene,just ONE nosey sod could have saved his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

newspapers denounced the people who had seen Bulger but had not intervened to aid Bulger as he was being taken through the city, as the "Liverpool 38".

[Kizzy]

I'm still stunned at that, nobody could have predicted what happened but still, 3 kids under 11 just roaming about? And they were seen hitting him ... how could they :(

[Marsh.]

Neither of them looked distressed either they should have found better actresses!
:joker:

I can imagine you directing them "I want tears! Bloody cry! Your mum's gone, she could be dead, look sad!"

[Marsh.]

Time to mention The Liverpool 38 again Ammi,38 people who ignored James Bulger even when he was clearly distressed,38 people who spoke to them and still did not intervene,just ONE nosey sod could have saved his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

newspapers denounced the people who had seen Bulger but had not intervened to aid Bulger as he was being taken through the city, as the "Liverpool 38".

That's the first thing that came to my mind too.

[Ammi]

Time to mention The Liverpool 38 again Ammi,38 people who ignored James Bulger even when he was clearly distressed,38 people who spoke to them and still did not intervene,just ONE nosey sod could have saved his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

newspapers denounced the people who had seen Bulger but had not intervened to aid Bulger as he was being taken through the city, as the "Liverpool 38".

..yeah, that was something that I didn't know Kaz and is extremely shocking and sad but it kind of shows that even though people may have known this was a 'set up', there is still a reluctance to approach children and offer help, maybe for fear of repercussions/perceptions, which really is quite disturbing...

[Nedusa]

Time to mention The Liverpool 38 again Ammi,38 people who ignored James Bulger even when he was clearly distressed,38 people who spoke to them and still did not intervene,just ONE nosey sod could have saved his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

newspapers denounced the people who had seen Bulger but had not intervened to aid Bulger as he was being taken through the city, as the "Liverpool 38".

I think this story is etched on the psyche of the public but I think it has had the opposite effect. Most people now are acutely aware of getting involved with small children who appear to be on their own. They remember the Bulger case but also know how perceptions to Paedophiles have also changed.

I feel it is one of sad ironies of the Bulger case that members of the public especially men are now LESS likely to put themselves into positions where they may be incorrectly labeled as suspected child molesters or worse.

[Cherie]

Time to mention The Liverpool 38 again Ammi,38 people who ignored James Bulger even when he was clearly distressed,38 people who spoke to them and still did not intervene,just ONE nosey sod could have saved his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

newspapers denounced the people who had seen Bulger but had not intervened to aid Bulger as he was being taken through the city, as the "Liverpool 38".

Made me feel sick reading that again Kazanne. I understand what you are saying about the 38 people seeing them and not intervening but the age of the boys must have been a factor in this. I always recall before James being found and seeing the grainy footage on the news of him being led away and my reaction was reassurance that he was with young boys, it never occurred to me that that he was in any danger with them, and even for the two people who did intervene Thomson and Venables had plausible stories though saying they were taking him to the Police Station I guess as an adult that person should have intervened and taken James themselves, I'm sure they suffered terribly for that decision.

[Moviefan]

I thought this was going What would you do, they did something like this else well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYPS7vEhT44

[lostalex]

As a gay 30 y/o man, i try to not even make eye contact with children. The "gays are pedophiles" stereotype is something I am always aware of.

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[user104658]

It's a fairly well defined psychological concept:

Bystander apathy (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect)

It's quite an interesting phenomenon really. Humans are social creatures and in stressful or unusual situations we regress quite quickly to instinctually taking social cues from those around us. For those who don't feel like a read, the basics are:

The more people that are around an incident, the LESS likely it is that someone will intervene. For reasons such as, if no one else is doing anything, people are more inclined to follow that example and do the same. Also, diminished responsibility - people think "there's loads of other people around, someone else will do something". Of course the problem is, everyone is thinking the same thing.

interestingly - often all it takes is for ONE person to step in, and then several people will also step up to help. It's like it short-circuits the effect and people suddenly realise "Oh... Someone is stepping in to help. Should I be helping? I probably should!"

It has a lot to do with social inhibitions etc. too. for example, a group walking home from work seeing someone being mugged by two guys is mote likely to walk on past. A group of tipsy revellers with a couple of drinks in them would often stop to help / chase off the attackers.

[Niamh.]

Yeah, sounds about right TS ^

[Kizzy]

That could explain my reaction the other day to the homophobic bullying on the bus...
I wasn't consciously waiting for someone else to step in but was so relieved when they did.
I thought it was because they were boys, the bully could've got aggressive with me and the bullied lad could've gotten humiliated/embarrassed I'd intervened.

[Nedusa]

That could explain my reaction the other day to the homophobic bullying on the bus...
I wasn't consciously waiting for someone else to step in but was so relieved when they did.
I thought it was because they were boys, the bully could've got aggressive with me and the bullied lad could've gotten humiliated/embarrassed I'd intervened.

Less bystander apathy, more fear & self preservation.

[Kazanne]

Made me feel sick reading that again Kazanne. I understand what you are saying about the 38 people seeing them and not intervening but the age of the boys must have been a factor in this. I always recall before James being found and seeing the grainy footage on the news of him being led away and my reaction was reassurance that he was with young boys, it never occurred to me that that he was in any danger with them, and even for the two people who did intervene Thomson and Venables had plausible stories though saying they were taking him to the Police Station I guess as an adult that person should have intervened and taken James themselves, I'm sure they suffered terribly for that decision.

Yes,you'de never think kids so young could be so cruel,and vile,but there you go,and yes the crafty little gits had stories at the ready,people weren't to know,but he was crying at one point I think I would have followed them tbh,I just don't think I'de have settled with walking away,but we are all different I guess.

[Z]

Yes,you'de never think kids so young could be so cruel,and vile,but there you go,and yes the crafty little gits had stories at the ready,people weren't to know,but he was crying at one point I think I would have followed them tbh,I just don't think I'de have settled with walking away,but we are all different I guess.

I think as well because children are generally very innocent, you really wouldn't expect them to make up a lie that they knew him or were looking after him or whatever, you'd just sort of accept it at face value... even if it was an adult I'm not sure I would intervene, which is sad but I guess it's a consequence of the times we live in, the media has glorified paedophilia, abduction and murder stories and people don't want to be tarred with the brush of being a suspect in any way by getting involved in situations like this. It basically allows psychopaths to do whatever they want and as long as they're convincing enough, nobody will stop them from carrying out their crime.

[Kizzy]

Less bystander apathy, more fear & self preservation.

No it wasn't fear, I was really angry but didn't want to go wading in, the lad initially handled it very well but then the bully really started piling the pressure on and he looked totally humiliated. The worry was I would add to that by making it more of an issue.

[Nedusa]

No it wasn't fear, I was really angry but didn't want to go wading in, the lad initially handled it very well but then the bully really started piling the pressure on and he looked totally humiliated. The worry was I would add to that by making it more of an issue.

Yes I agree it is difficult to try and second guess the best way to deal with situations like these. Once involved you have to be ready to deal with a host of unpredictable outcomes.

At least you were there in case things had of gotten really out of hand.

[Kizzy]

This big bloke just spun round and went 'oi fookin leave him!' He scuttled upstairs so fast
:joker: