Did you know we live in a Christian country?

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you reside in the UK?

More than 50 writers, scientists, broadcasters and academics have signed an open letter expressing concern at the 'negative consequences' of the Prime Minister's assertion in a country where most people do not describe themselves as Christian.
Signatories of the letter, published in The Daily Telegraph, include the authors Philip Pullman and Sir Terry Pratchett; broadcasters Dan Snow and Nick Ross, the philosopher AC Grayling; and the human rights activist Peter Tatchell.

It follows the article last week for the Church Times by Mr Cameron - who in the past has been reluctant to discuss religious matters - in which he wrote of his own faith and his desire to infuse politics with Christian ideals and values


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609213/The-Prime-Ministers-assertion-Britain-Christian-country-risks-dividing-society-claim-50-liberals-including-Sir-Terry-Pratchett-Dan-Snow.html#ixzz2zVeR2Y76


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01756/david-cameron-afp_1756816c.jpg

[arista]

sure


But there is No God


And letters sent
by Philip Pullman, Sir Terry Pratchett and Dan Snow to just the Telegraph
are not enough to worry about

[Apple202]

ew no ty

[Pete.]

Yes - Christians are all around where I live (including myself)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes - Christians are all around where I live (including myself)

I would imagine by "all around" you really mean 5% :conf:

[MTVN]

Well seeing as we have a national church which our monarch is the head of then yes I would say we live in a Christian country

[Livia]

Atheists really do spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about religion. If you're not religious, if you have no interest in it, let it go... and allow people to make up their own minds. Yes this is a Christian county and that has shaped who we are as a nation. That does not offend me, I see no reason why it should offend you, that idiot Tatchell nor any of the people who object.

I object to Dan Snow, getting a degree in history and then his family links allowing him to do his hobby for a living for the rest of his life when there were undoubtedly other, more worthy people with better qualifications but their father wasn't Jon Snow. I'd be willing to sign a petition against that.

[arista]

Atheists really do spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about religion. If you're not religious, if you have no interest in it, let it go... and allow people to make up their own minds. Yes this is a Christian county and that has shaped who we are as a nation. That does not offend me, I see no reason why it should offend you, that idiot Tatchell nor any of the people who object.

I object to Dan Snow, getting a degree in history and then his family links allowing him to do his hobby for a living for the rest of his life when there were undoubtedly other, more worthy people with better qualifications but their father wasn't Jon Snow. I'd be willing to sign a petition against that.


Yes he should stick to his job
on TV History

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would imagine one would have to qualify just what they mean by Christian country.

and what a christian really is

[Cherie]

Why do people have to object to everything, too little to do in their lives.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why do people have to object to everything, too little to do in their lives.

Yes lets just have a dictator and a common haircut...:cool:

[Cherie]

Yes lets just have a dictator and a common haircut...:cool:

Take your point, but moaning about everything is not a good look either.

[Kizzy]

It's a typical 'new right' socio-political ethos. I thought it strange to have the queens speech on once and heard her rattle on about the king James bible...
It's not a case of atheists discussing religion or the blinkered perception that we have a 'national religion' it's the way we are being manipulated into thinking anyone who does not hold these Christian beliefs are in some way inferior.
It's not Christianity that creates a decent civilised society, here are a few examples that are suggested makes up what Cameron seems to crave.... Then ask yourself what his government have done to achieve that end.
Safety
Safety is a fundamental characteristic of a civilized society. The personal safety of citizens in that society should be guaranteed. This includes being protected from external forces and security within the society, from both the government, institutions and individuals. No person should fear loss of life or physical harm in civilized society.

Health Care
The right for all members of a society to have access to health care, regardless of social class or economic situation, is a staple of civilized society. Each citizen is entitled to the highest-quality health care the society is able to provide. Sadly, few nations today can legitimately claim this truth as a part of their society.

Access to Food and Water
A civilized society is one that provides the basic essentials of life to all its citizens. Granting access to food and water, so that no person will go hungry or thirsty, is another measurement of a civilized society. Many philosophers believe that how a society treats its worst off is how it should be measured.

Shelter
Basic shelter should also be provided to each citizen. Civilized society ensures that all people who live within the society are given access to a location where they can safely sleep and take refuge from the elements. Many Scandinavian countries have combated homelessness by providing government-sponsored housing for individuals living on the street.

System of Law and Government
In order for a society to function it must have an established system of laws. These laws should be designed to preserve the welfare of the common good and be for the society's best interest. The role of the government is one of an administrator, polling the needs of the society and governing according to those needs based on common interest.

Education
Education may not seem like an obvious measure, but equal access to education for all individuals is considered a strong indicator of civilized society. It is in the community's best interest to have a highly educated population. This promotes advancement, research and economic growth. The education system of a society should be equal for all and not prohibitive at any level. All citizens must be guaranteed the right to a full education and should not be discriminated from doing so based on cost, access or any other characteristic.

Freedom
Freedom is perhaps the most important mark of a civilized society, one that trumps all other units of measure. Freedom of thought, belief, word, religion, affiliation and expression -- and the guarantee of those freedoms -- is essential in a civilized society. The right to participate in the economy, government and culture of the society is akin to such freedoms.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/info_10027787_seven-characteristics-civilized-society.html#ixzz2zW9b3xNr

I think what he means is when you have nothing and there is nowhere to turn all you can do is pray for help!

[Z]

I'm not of a religion, it doesn't figure into my life at all, doesn't really bother me if others want to follow a religion so long as it doesn't affect me, and I offer them the same courtesy.

[Niall]

I suppose the country has a strong Christian heritage and basis to a lot of views, traditions and laws but how Christian are people nowadays really? Of the practicing Christians I know, a lot of them just seem to be paying lip service to the Church or have no interest in it, and nearly all of my friends that're my age have just rejected it altogether. I don't feel like describing us as a Christian nation is necessarily the correct term, I mean maybe I'm wrong to say that, but I just feel that because it's being eroded so rapidly that it isn't so appropriate nowadays.

Anyway Cameron's also a monumental tit for suggesting we should mix religion and politics. If he wants to espouse that view than I'm sure bible-belt America will be more than welcoming of him.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its an election effort to win the DM vote. The daily mail reader is the classic "this is a christian country" mouthpiece who would never darken a church door or do anything even remotely christian..

[Livia]

It's a typical 'new right' socio-political ethos. I thought it strange to have the queens speech on once and heard her rattle on about the king James bible...
It's not a case of atheists discussing religion or the blinkered perception that we have a 'national religion' it's the way we are being manipulated into thinking anyone who does not hold these Christian beliefs are in some way inferior.
It's not Christianity that creates a decent civilised society, here are a few examples that are suggested makes up what Cameron seems to crave.... Then ask yourself what his government have done to achieve that end.
Safety
Safety is a fundamental characteristic of a civilized society. The personal safety of citizens in that society should be guaranteed. This includes being protected from external forces and security within the society, from both the government, institutions and individuals. No person should fear loss of life or physical harm in civilized society.

Health Care
The right for all members of a society to have access to health care, regardless of social class or economic situation, is a staple of civilized society. Each citizen is entitled to the highest-quality health care the society is able to provide. Sadly, few nations today can legitimately claim this truth as a part of their society.

Access to Food and Water
A civilized society is one that provides the basic essentials of life to all its citizens. Granting access to food and water, so that no person will go hungry or thirsty, is another measurement of a civilized society. Many philosophers believe that how a society treats its worst off is how it should be measured.

Shelter
Basic shelter should also be provided to each citizen. Civilized society ensures that all people who live within the society are given access to a location where they can safely sleep and take refuge from the elements. Many Scandinavian countries have combated homelessness by providing government-sponsored housing for individuals living on the street.

System of Law and Government
In order for a society to function it must have an established system of laws. These laws should be designed to preserve the welfare of the common good and be for the society's best interest. The role of the government is one of an administrator, polling the needs of the society and governing according to those needs based on common interest.

Education
Education may not seem like an obvious measure, but equal access to education for all individuals is considered a strong indicator of civilized society. It is in the community's best interest to have a highly educated population. This promotes advancement, research and economic growth. The education system of a society should be equal for all and not prohibitive at any level. All citizens must be guaranteed the right to a full education and should not be discriminated from doing so based on cost, access or any other characteristic.

Freedom
Freedom is perhaps the most important mark of a civilized society, one that trumps all other units of measure. Freedom of thought, belief, word, religion, affiliation and expression -- and the guarantee of those freedoms -- is essential in a civilized society. The right to participate in the economy, government and culture of the society is akin to such freedoms.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/info_10027787_seven-characteristics-civilized-society.html#ixzz2zW9b3xNr

I think what he means is when you have nothing and there is nowhere to turn all you can do is pray for help!


This is about Britain being Christian. It hasn't been Christian only for the last four years so please... stop making everything an anti-tory rant. It's very tedious.

[Kizzy]

This is about Britain being Christian. It hasn't been Christian only for the last four years so please... stop making everything an anti-tory rant. It's very tedious.

It's about an article written by the PM livia. Don't tell me what to post please it's more tedious.
I will have my say and if you don't like it don't respond, thankyou.

[Tom4784]

Defining countries by religion is archaic and it doesn't make sense in this day and age.

[Cherie]

Defining countries by religion is archaic and it doesn't make sense in this day and age.

You might want to run that thought past some of the Arab Nations :D:

[Tom4784]

You might want to run that thought past some of the Arab Nations :D:

The UK is a bit different to them though don't you think?

[smudgie]

As an atheist, I have no objection to living in a Christian country.
Quite like the traditional parts of it.

Take it or leave it just as long as it isn't shoved down our throats.

[Z]

I'm glad I live in a Christian country, all these religious holidays wouldn't be possible without it

[Livia]

I'm glad I live in a Christian country, all these religious holidays wouldn't be possible without it

Well said Zee. I don't see many atheists willing to give up Christmas and Easter breaks. Although to give him his due, Jesus (our Jesus, not the one from the Bible) does volunteer at Christmastime. Although he's the exception rather than the rule, I think.

[Kizzy]

Yes without religion they would just be 'breaks'...

[Livia]

I don't get paid for my religious festivals because I live in a Christian country. If this isn't a Christian country, why should people expect to be paid for religious holidays?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't get paid for my religious festivals because I live in a Christian country. If this isn't a Christian country, why should people expect to be paid for religious holidays?


is this about the Holiday Armadillo

again?


http://i1.cpcache.com/product/713040859/happy_hanukkah_from_the_holiday_armadillo_round_or .jpg?color=White&height=460&width=460&qv=90

[Livia]

LOL yes. It's a great source of sorrow to Jews when we don't get paid for something.

[Kizzy]

She's got 7 woes but christianity ain't one :laugh:

[Livia]

Not funny.

[Kizzy]

Not into theological humour? come on I'm not a Christian and I find it funny

[Livia]

Not when I have to wait so long for it to be Googled, no.

[Kizzy]

Us heathens like to take our time...

[Livia]

Yeah, enough now.

[Kizzy]

Enough? I'm just getting started, I could talk religion all night I'm very spiritual.

[Livia]

Good for you.

[Kizzy]

SIR – We respect the Prime Minister’s right to his religious beliefs and the fact that they necessarily affect his own life as a politician. However, we object to his characterisation of Britain as a “Christian country” and the negative consequences for politics and society that this engenders.
Apart from in the narrow constitutional sense that we continue to have an established Church, Britain is not a “Christian country”. Repeated surveys, polls and studies show that most of us as individuals are not Christian in our beliefs or our religious identities.
At a social level, Britain has been shaped for the better by many pre-Christian, non-Christian, and post-Christian forces. We are a plural society with citizens with a range of perspectives, and we are a largely non-religious society.
Constantly to claim otherwise fosters alienation and division in our society. Although it is right to recognise the contribution made by many Christians to social action, it is wrong to try to exceptionalise their contribution when it is equalled by British people of different beliefs. This needlessly fuels enervating sectarian debates that are by and large absent from the lives of most British people, who do not want religions or religious identities to be actively prioritised by their elected government.
Professor Jim Al-Khalil
Philip Pullman
Tim Minchin
Dr Simon Singh
Ken Follett
Dr Adam Rutherford
Sir John Sulston
Sir David Smith
Professor Jonathan Glover
Professor Anthony Grayling
Nick Ross
Virginia Ironside
Professor Steven Rose
Natalie Haynes
Peter Tatchell
Professor Raymond Tallis
Dr Iolo ap Gwynn
Stephen Volk
Professor Steve Jones
Sir Terry Pratchett
Dr Evan Harris
Dr Richard Bartle
Sian Berry
C J De Mooi
Professor John A Lee
Professor Richard Norman
Zoe Margolis
Joan Smith
Michael Gore
Derek McAuley
Lorraine Barratt
Dr Susan Blackmore
Dr Harry Stopes-Roe
Sir Geoffrey Bindman QC
Adele Anderson
Dr Helena Cronin
Professor Alice Roberts
Professor Chris French
Sir Tom Blundell
Maureen Duffy
Baroness Whitaker
Lord Avebury
Richard Herring
Martin Rowson
Tony Hawks
Peter Cave
Diane Munday
Professor Norman MacLean
Professor Sir Harold Kroto
Sir Richard Dalton
Sir David Blatherwick
Michael Rubenstein
Polly Toynbee
Lord O'Neill
Dr Simon Singh
Dan Snow

[joeysteele]

Oh dear, why do politicians do this,get involved in religious matters,odd how they hate it when the Church comments as to politics,especially if the Church disagrees with the politicians.

We are I would say a Christian leaning Nation,so in that I would agree with the PM and the article attributed to him.

However, for me, I judge people on their actions not their words,I don't think it matters who or what people are, what they believe or don't believe,it is what 'they do' especially in relation to others and even more so when they have power too.
It is there, I feel, it would have been better for this particular PM to keep quiet and not use his position to spout off to others.

He leads,in my opinion, one of the most unchristian and in some cases inhuman Govts. this Nation has likely ever had since the start of the 20th century and certainly post war.
He has in his Cabinet, some people who are the most awful people likely to ever be in Govt. positions with power over others.

So to now go on trying to, in my view, win over some christian votes,is rather distasteful at best for me as to David Cameron and the issues he has raised in his article in the Church times.
Whatever he says as to christian values and this being a christian country, one thing is sure, his Govt. under his leadership is far from anything christian and sadly for me, his actions as to all things christian after being tentatively trusted with power,say far more about him than any cheap words from him done for publicity.

No one, christian,any other religion or even humanist and atheist for that matter need any pathetic lectures from this man on the subject whatsoever.
He is entitled to his views,however it is time he stopped abusing the power he has in my opinion and sorted his own backyard as to his Govt. out first.

[Kizzy]

Yes dave practice what you preach!

[Nedusa]

I think it is right and proper for David Cameron to speak up and reaffirm our Christian values and heritage especially as this was part of his Easter message.

Although church attendances are falling and only a small proportion of the population actually go to these "organised" religions churches, a high proportion of the population of this Country do consider themselves Christian.

It is a useful reminder from the Prime Minister that this is the case and will continue to be the case for the forseeable future.

The letter written to the Telegraph by Britains leading 50 atheists misses the point, ie this Country is a Christian Country, Christianity is the official religion of the UK. We even have Bishops sitting in the House of Lords helping to shape our laws so our faith is not diluted or lost.

In fact it's about time our Politicians re-affirmed our Christian values especially at Easter the most important of all our Christian celebrations.

[user104658]

Atheists really do spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about religion. If you're not religious, if you have no interest in it, let it go... and allow people to make up their own minds.

A) I wouldn't take anyone who claims to be atheistic seriously if they hadn't spent time thinking about it. On the flipside, in my experience, most (note: not ALL) "religious people" have not spent much time openly thinking about religion (as a whole concept, outside the bounds of their own branch).

B) Not being religious =/= "having no interest" in religion. Anyone who has any interest in sociology, psychology, politics or any other philosophical thought should have "an interest" in religion, its origins and its consequences.

C) "Letting it go", refusing to talk about it, and just letting people get on with making up their own minds more or less ensures that those people will not be able to make up their own minds, because people who ARE religious (their families, friends, other influences) will not stop talking about it / let it go / stop trying to "spread the word". Until they do so, without atheistic persuasion as a counter-balance, people can never truly "make up their own mind", can they?

What you're saying would be fine if religion was purely personal and benign. But it blatantly is not.

[Kizzy]

I think it is right and proper for David Cameron to speak up and reaffirm our Christian values and heritage especially as this was part of his Easter message.

Although church attendances are falling and only a small proportion of the population actually go to these "organised" religions churches, a high proportion of the population of this Country do consider themselves Christian.

It is a useful reminder from the Prime Minister that this is the case and will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future.

The letter written to the Telegraph by Britains leading 50 atheists misses the point, ie this Country is a Christian Country, Christianity is the official religion of the UK. We even have Bishops sitting in the House of Lords helping to shape our laws so our faith is not diluted or lost.

In fact it's about time our Politicians re-affirmed our Christian values especially at Easter the most important of all our Christian celebrations.

I haven't seen that one, It's not the law to be a Christian... yet.
Once again it's the pathetic box ticking morons in middle England who are playing 'morality bingo' and paying lip service (going to church at least 4 times in your life , including getting married) to the Christian faith.
As joey said earlier when the church comment on the very real and unchristian actions of this government they are slapped down by one of the pitbulls as they continue to savage many weak and needy people.

[MTVN]

You can't separate a country's religious heritage from its identity, however much you try. We use the Christian calendar, our major holidays are fundamentally religious ones, we have a national church which our monarch is the head of, Churches hugely outnumber any other religious buildings, most people still consider themselves Christian, and Christianity's influence is still evident in all major customs, traditions, laws etc. etc.

To say we are not a Christian country is to try and whitewash our history.

[Livia]

A) I wouldn't take anyone who claims to be atheistic seriously if they hadn't spent time thinking about it. On the flipside, in my experience, most (note: not ALL) "religious people" have not spent much time openly thinking about religion (as a whole concept, outside the bounds of their own branch).

B) Not being religious =/= "having no interest" in religion. Anyone who has any interest in sociology, psychology, politics or any other philosophical thought should have "an interest" in religion, its origins and its consequences.

C) "Letting it go", refusing to talk about it, and just letting people get on with making up their own minds more or less ensures that those people will not be able to make up their own minds, because people who ARE religious (their families, friends, other influences) will not stop talking about it / let it go / stop trying to "spread the word". Until they do so, without atheistic persuasion as a counter-balance, people can never truly "make up their own mind", can they?

What you're saying would be fine if religion was purely personal and benign. But it blatantly is not.


Yeah, you lost me when you said straight out that atheists have thought about it and most religious people haven't, and when you added that religous people will not shut up about it, despite the fact that almost ALL religous threads on this forum are started by atheists.

[Livia]

You can't separate a country's religious heritage from its identity, however much you try. We use the Christian calendar, our major holidays are fundamentally religious ones, we have a national church which our monarch is the head of, Churches hugely outnumber any other religious buildings, most people still consider themselves Christian, and Christianity's influence is still evident in all major customs, traditions, laws etc. etc.

To say we are not a Christian country is to try and whitewash our history.

Great post MTVN. One of your best.

[Kizzy]

You can't separate a country's religious heritage from its identity, however much you try. We use the Christian calendar, our major holidays are fundamentally religious ones, we have a national church which our monarch is the head of, Churches hugely outnumber any other religious buildings, most people still consider themselves Christian, and Christianity's influence is still evident in all major customs, traditions, laws etc. etc.

To say we are not a Christian country is to try and whitewash our history.

You can't deny the fact that there are more non Christians than Christians as found in the study, that is not to say (swiftly) that everyone else is non-religious.
Well it depends how far back in history you want to go, Christianity was adopted we didn't give birth to it... And in the main it was forced upon us wasn't it?
If real and honest Christian values were adopted it would indeed be a wonderous thing, how likely is it that dave and his writhing serpents will lead by example?... not very.

[user104658]

Yeah, you lost me when you said straight out that atheists have thought about it and most religious people haven't, and when you added that religous people will not shut up about it, despite the fact that almost ALL religous threads on this forum are started by atheists.

I didn't say that atheists have thought about it, I said I wouldn't respect their opinion if they hadn't. You implied that they shouldn't be thinking about it. I was merely disagreeing.

I wasn't saying that religious people bang on about it - I was pointing out that atheists just shutting up and letting people make up their own minds, without also stating that religious people should do the same (which they won't / can't, religion would die without the word being spread, this is fundamental to pretty much every faith?) is problematic and unfair, and would remove the counterbalance that ALLOWS people to "make up their own minds".

However, I suspect that you knew all of this and you're deliberately misinterpreting me to fit a pre-conceived pro-religious agenda... which is disappointing to be honest. I'm not necessarily atheistic or even anti-religious in theory. I'm just not blinkered.

[Kizzy]

It's all pathetic subterfuge to win votes anyway, he couldn't give a monkeys if anyone worships Christ or not.

[Livia]

I didn't say that atheists have thought about it, I said I wouldn't respect their opinion if they hadn't. You implied that they shouldn't be thinking about it. I was merely disagreeing.

I wasn't saying that religious people bang on about it - I was pointing out that atheists just shutting up and letting people make up their own minds, without also stating that religious people should do the same (which they won't / can't, religion would die without the word being spread, this is fundamental to pretty much every faith?) is problematic and unfair, and would remove the counterbalance that ALLOWS people to "make up their own minds".

However, I suspect that you knew all of this and you're deliberately misinterpreting me to fit a pre-conceived pro-religious agenda... which is disappointing to be honest. I'm not necessarily atheistic or even anti-religious in theory. I'm just not blinkered.


I have neither the time nor the inclination to work out some intricate plot against you. You believe or you don't, I don't care, so long as you don't expect me to follow. This is about ours being a Christian country. Which it is. Being a Christian country has made us the nation we are now. You don't have to like it, but it's true. I am not a Christian, the fact this is a Christian country doesn't offend me. But it does seem to offend atheists who, without doubt, are noisier than any religion.

I am not pro-religious. I am pro-the right to personal choice and religious freedom, whatever religion you follow, or whether you follow none. But thanks for your summing up of my whole character based on a few posts I made to someone else and for implying I'm blinkered! That's funny...

You're quite wrong about spreading the word. My religion doesn't recruit.

[Kizzy]

'This is about ours being a Christian country. Which it is' statistically it isn't.
Strangely your pro choice view is one that is shared with the signatories of the open letter, why then you appear so affronted by the content I don't know.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Around 95% of the population dont go to church or read the bible. They dont watch religious stuff on tv and they dont look at religious stuff online. Holidays are just holidays. They dont believe that an invisible god thing can read their thoughts, they doint think they are sinners, they dont give any money to religion and they never give religion a minutes thought.

Also having been a regular church goer at one time I can tell you that the 5% of church goers mostly dont know one end of a bible from the other or could really agree on what being a christian actually is.




Lip service is all it is.

[Crimson Dynamo]

We are far more a football country or a dog loving country if you wish to categorise a country in such a rather silly way.

[Livia]

Around 95% of the population dont go to church or read the bible. They dont watch religious stuff on tv and they dont look at religious stuff online. Holidays are just holidays. They dont believe that an invisible god thing can read their thoughts, they doint think they are sinners, they dont give any money to religion and they never give religion a minutes thought.

Also having been a regular church goer at one time I can tell you that the 5% of church goers mostly dont know one end of a bible from the other or could really agree on what being a christian actually is.

Lip service is all it is.

That doesn't mean it isn't a "Christian" country.

Most people don't follow football, they don't watch it on the telly during the season and they don't follow a local team. However they'll support England (or their own national team) when the world cup's on. I don't see anyone moaning about them not being a football fan for 99% of the time. It's the same with religion. Most people aren't Christians, but look a the amount of people who get married in church! That sing carols at Christmas... that take the holiday pay for religious festivals they apparently don't believe in.

[Livia]

We are far more a football country or a dog loving country if you wish to categorise a country in such a rather silly way.

I just said that. Kind of.

Get out of my head, Trumpet.

[Niamh.]

That doesn't mean it isn't a "Christian" country.

Most people don't follow football, they don't watch it on the telly during the season and they don't follow a local team. However they'll support England (or their own national team) when the world cup's on. I don't see anyone moaning about them not being a football fan for 99% of the time. It's the same with religion. Most people aren't Christians, but look a the amount of people who get married in church! That sing carols at Christmas... that take the holiday pay for religious festivals they apparently don't believe in.

I hate this one tbh, people need time off work because they need a break sometimes, who cares why that break occurred? people are just happy to have it

[Kizzy]

That doesn't mean it isn't a "Christian" country.

Most people don't follow football, they don't watch it on the telly during the season and they don't follow a local team. However they'll support England (or their own national team) when the world cup's on. I don't see anyone moaning about them not being a football fan for 99% of the time. It's the same with religion. Most people aren't Christians, but look a the amount of people who get married in church! That sing carols at Christmas... that take the holiday pay for religious festivals they apparently don't believe in.

only you could equate religion with football and attempt to make it sound plausible that is the national view :laugh:

[arista]

Hindu, Muslim and Sikh leaders back the PM after 'militant atheists' tell him to keep quiet on religion

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609942/Yes-Britain-IS-Christian-country-respect-Hindu-Muslim-Sikh-leaders-PM-militant-atheists-tell-quiet-religion.html#ixzz2zcKeUbZ7

[Kizzy]

Anyone who isn't Christian = Atheist lefty militant :suspect:

[Kizzy]

But Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg said Mr Cameron was ‘brave’ to take on the atheists.
‘The extreme secularists are an aggressive and unpleasant lobby and they have a degree of self-righteousness that the Pharisees would be proud of,’ he said


Could this be seen as anti-Semitism?... let's see.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hindu, Muslim and Sikh leaders back the PM after 'militant atheists' tell him to keep quiet on religion

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609942/Yes-Britain-IS-Christian-country-respect-Hindu-Muslim-Sikh-leaders-PM-militant-atheists-tell-quiet-religion.html#ixzz2zcKeUbZ7

They back him but they all think he is wrong about his god and think their gods are the right ones

You could not make it up

[Kizzy]

'earlier this week, he said that he believed Britain should be more ‘evangelical’ about Christianity and ‘more confident about our status as a Christian country’. In an article for the Church Times, he argued that some atheists and agnostics did not understand that faith could be a ‘guide or a helpful prod’ towards morality'

Has he been misquoted in the mail?... this is what he actually said.

'Many atheists and agnostics live by a moral code - and there are Christians who don't. But for people who do have a faith, that faith can be a guide or a helpful prod in the right direction - and, whether inspired by faith or not, that direction or moral code matters.'

http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2014/17-april/comment/opinion/my-faith-in-the-church-of-england

[Crimson Dynamo]

in all honesty it does not matter one iota what dave thinks and that quote is about as clear as ditch water.

Perfect Anglican muffle

[Cherie]

Hindu, Muslim and Sikh leaders back the PM after 'militant atheists' tell him to keep quiet on religion

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609942/Yes-Britain-IS-Christian-country-respect-Hindu-Muslim-Sikh-leaders-PM-militant-atheists-tell-quiet-religion.html#ixzz2zcKeUbZ7

Why should he stay quiet though, it seems free speech is only welcomed if people agree with what the person is saying. Dave had his say, the antis have had theirs, what is the problem here exactly :conf:

[Nedusa]

SIR – We respect the Prime Minister’s right to his religious beliefs and the fact that they necessarily affect his own life as a politician. However, we object to his characterisation of Britain as a “Christian country” and the negative consequences for politics and society that this engenders.
Apart from in the narrow constitutional sense that we continue to have an established Church, Britain is not a “Christian country”. Repeated surveys, polls and studies show that most of us as individuals are not Christian in our beliefs or our religious identities.
At a social level, Britain has been shaped for the better by many pre-Christian, non-Christian, and post-Christian forces. We are a plural society with citizens with a range of perspectives, and we are a largely non-religious society.
Constantly to claim otherwise fosters alienation and division in our society. Although it is right to recognise the contribution made by many Christians to social action, it is wrong to try to exceptionalise their contribution when it is equalled by British people of different beliefs. This needlessly fuels enervating sectarian debates that are by and large absent from the lives of most British people, who do not want religions or religious identities to be actively prioritised by their elected government.
Professor Jim Al-Khalil
Philip Pullman
Tim Minchin
Dr Simon Singh
Ken Follett
Dr Adam Rutherford
Sir John Sulston
Sir David Smith
Professor Jonathan Glover
Professor Anthony Grayling
Nick Ross
Virginia Ironside
Professor Steven Rose
Natalie Haynes
Peter Tatchell
Professor Raymond Tallis
Dr Iolo ap Gwynn
Stephen Volk
Professor Steve Jones
Sir Terry Pratchett
Dr Evan Harris
Dr Richard Bartle
Sian Berry
C J De Mooi
Professor John A Lee
Professor Richard Norman
Zoe Margolis
Joan Smith
Michael Gore
Derek McAuley
Lorraine Barratt
Dr Susan Blackmore
Dr Harry Stopes-Roe
Sir Geoffrey Bindman QC
Adele Anderson
Dr Helena Cronin
Professor Alice Roberts
Professor Chris French
Sir Tom Blundell
Maureen Duffy
Baroness Whitaker
Lord Avebury
Richard Herring
Martin Rowson
Tony Hawks
Peter Cave
Diane Munday
Professor Norman MacLean
Professor Sir Harold Kroto
Sir Richard Dalton
Sir David Blatherwick
Michael Rubenstein
Polly Toynbee
Lord O'Neill
Dr Simon Singh
Dan Snow

Tough.........it is a Christian Country, get over it !

[Livia]

only you could equate religion with football and attempt to make it sound plausible that is the national view :laugh:

I think you'll find Leather Trumpet also used the analogy. Of course, you're not quite as obsessed with him as you are with me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://doorleader.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dontmakemecomedownthere.jpg

[Livia]

LOL... excellent.

[MTVN]

You can't deny the fact that there are more non Christians than Christians as found in the study, that is not to say (swiftly) that everyone else is non-religious.
Well it depends how far back in history you want to go, Christianity was adopted we didn't give birth to it... And in the main it was forced upon us wasn't it?
If real and honest Christian values were adopted it would indeed be a wonderous thing, how likely is it that dave and his writhing serpents will lead by example?... not very.

True, most would now say they are not religious but I believe the most recent study found the majority would still identify as Christian even if they're not actively religious. That's the thing really, it's more about identity and heritage than whether or not people are avid church goers. You could go further back if you wanted, but the influence of other religious creeds is negligible compared to that of Christianity. The whole way our country is today, how society is governed, is more due to Christianity than any other faith.

[InOne]

I remember my teacher once telling me that just because they were White and English, some of the kids automatically thought they were Christian yet had next to no knowledge about any of it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you asked a 100 people "what is a christian?" you would get a 100 different answers

[AnnieK]

I tend to think of Christian people as those who have been christened. They may not be practising but they were identified with that faith...albeit usually not through their own choice. When I was a kid everyone I knew was christened and therefore if asked would say they were Christian or church of England now more people are leaving it to their children to make their own choices when they are older.

[Kizzy]

I think you'll find Leather Trumpet also used the analogy. Of course, you're not quite as obsessed with him as you are with me.

He made a vague comparison and you used it as a suggestion of a direct correlation it was quite different. And I'm not obsessed with anyone, I have quoted a lot of people in this thread you're not special.

Can I just point out you quoted me first,telling me you find my posting tedious....