View Full Version : Have you ever been banned on TiBB?
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 08:12 PM
All in the question
(an no this isn't to cause trouble before you got to close this) :nono:
Jessica.
11-05-2014, 08:14 PM
Yes, plenty of times, my first ban was for a multiple account when I didn't know it was against the rules. :hugesmile:
jackc1806
11-05-2014, 08:14 PM
I'm innocent as **** obvs not
Pete.
11-05-2014, 08:15 PM
Not yet
Cherie
11-05-2014, 08:15 PM
Good Lord No.
Probs be banned shortly now for being so :smug:
No http://i.imgur.com/PvmK457.png
Jordan.
11-05-2014, 08:15 PM
Yes
https://24.media.tumblr.com/409bd52d0b234f130f1f539149caef95/tumblr_n4z833JrCj1r86b1po1_250.gif
Kazanne
11-05-2014, 08:16 PM
Yes.
Marsh.
11-05-2014, 08:16 PM
Yes. Only once that I can remember. Not sure if there's more.
I can't even remember the reason I was banned, I vaguely remember telling Nathan to foff.
Livia
11-05-2014, 08:17 PM
No.
Jack.
11-05-2014, 08:17 PM
No I've never been banned I'm a good member :laugh:
Yes, I was banned once :)
thesheriff443
11-05-2014, 08:18 PM
no, but I have taken a few days off.
Jessica.
11-05-2014, 08:20 PM
no, but I have taken a few days off.
http://puu.sh/8IwuY.jpg
Natalie.
11-05-2014, 08:20 PM
No I don't think so
Yeah, I was banned for the longest amount of time (i think) without being perma'd, which was two years.
About 3 times but not been banned or infracted in ages.
It's all about knowing who the button pushers are, once you know that you'll be fine.
Vanessa
11-05-2014, 08:22 PM
Yes, but i'm a good girl now. :angel::joker:
reece(:
11-05-2014, 08:25 PM
No
Ben was that recent ban your first?
Kazanne
11-05-2014, 08:26 PM
Yes, but i'm a good girl now. :angel::joker:
Vanessa:joker: have we EVER been good:hugesmile:
Vanessa
11-05-2014, 08:28 PM
Vanessa:joker: have we EVER been good:hugesmile:
I prefer to call it naughty. :wink:
jackc1806
11-05-2014, 08:29 PM
I prefer to call it naughty. :wink:
:creep: :laugh:
Kazanne
11-05-2014, 08:29 PM
I prefer to call it naughty. :wink:
:thumbs2::hugesmile:
armand.kay
11-05-2014, 08:30 PM
No I'm an angel.
http://i.minus.com/ibaTTJB0zM9ltd.gif
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 08:33 PM
No
Ben was that recent ban your first?
Yes, managed to go 6 years without a ban. It was worth the ban though. :pipe:
Shaun
11-05-2014, 08:34 PM
not for a good few years now.
Marsh.
11-05-2014, 08:35 PM
Yes, managed to go 6 years without a ban. It was worth the ban though. :pipe:
What were you banned for?
Braden
11-05-2014, 08:35 PM
Never.
But I don't post often, nor am I a ~controversial~ TiBB character.
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 08:37 PM
What were you banned for?
I told whoever it was that day on patrol to go **** themselves. Then got infracted so just replied with the smiley :smug: and got banned.
:laugh:
Vanessa
11-05-2014, 08:40 PM
I told whoever it was that day on patrol to go **** themselves. Then got infracted so just replied with the smiley :smug: and got banned.
:laugh:
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/549282/shocked-cat-o.gif :joker:
Pete.
11-05-2014, 08:41 PM
Ben is so aggressive it's atrocious
Sorry to hear that Ben :love:
Marsh.
11-05-2014, 08:42 PM
:laugh:
thesheriff443
11-05-2014, 08:44 PM
I told whoever it was that day on patrol to go **** themselves. Then got infracted so just replied with the smiley :smug: and got banned.
:laugh:
legend!
Jemal
11-05-2014, 08:45 PM
Yea. But never on off season.
But when big brother is around, all the damnnnm time.
Yea. But never on off season.
But when big brother is around, all the damnnnm time.
Those were the days man
I told whoever it was that day on patrol to go **** themselves. Then got infracted so just replied with the smiley :smug: and got banned.
:laugh:
You were banned for the first part...
jackc1806
11-05-2014, 08:47 PM
Ben stop being so controversial god
Jemal
11-05-2014, 08:48 PM
Those were the days man
Good ones too tbh.
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 08:48 PM
You were banned for the first part...
How come I was still allowed to post then after I got infracted? I then sent the :smug: and after that I was banned? :laugh:
Ramsay
11-05-2014, 08:48 PM
Ben you are soooooooooooooo cool http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/smilies/smug.png
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 08:49 PM
http://s17.postimg.org/c7t22q7fz/eggman_beatles.gif
How come I was still allowed to post then after I got infracted? I then sent the :smug: and after that I was banned? :laugh:
Nah you were given a warning for insulting another member, sent a message then got banned then you sent the smug smiley and then you were stopped from sending messages.
Jemal
11-05-2014, 08:50 PM
*gets popcorn*
Ramsay
11-05-2014, 08:51 PM
Walruses are most rebellious i hear
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 08:51 PM
Nah you were given a warning for insulting another member, sent a message then got banned then you sent the smug smiley and then you were stopped from sending messages.
How is telling somebody they need get out more often after they said they hoped somebody would die insulting though? I mean really? People get away with more than that on here. :laugh:
Ramsay
11-05-2014, 08:52 PM
Ben is like TiBB's Anakin Skywalker. the fall from grace is unbelievable. YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE
smudgie
11-05-2014, 08:52 PM
NO :angel:
Headie
11-05-2014, 08:52 PM
Nope, I'm a good boy.
Not here to discuss your warnings on the main board Ben, just correcting the mistake you made in your post :smug:
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 08:55 PM
Well if you had done your jobs in the first place after a few of you had posted and commented in the thread I wouldn't have had to report it or reply. :smug:
Pete.
11-05-2014, 08:57 PM
Ben digging himself a huge hole
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll1gx8reKp1qg7im2o1_500.gif
Vicky.
11-05-2014, 08:58 PM
We did our jobs properly, hence getting rid of you for 24 hours. The plan all along was to get some peace and quiet :idc:
*Ben reports post at 11.06 am, expects it to be already dealt with before he posts a reply to said post at..wait for it....11.06am*
Jesus Christ Ben :laugh:
Pete.
11-05-2014, 09:02 PM
Drag ha
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 09:02 PM
I mean the fact that some of you had posted in the thread with the other comment and yet it remained left there.
I still fail to see how what I said was insulting, and yes I can be insulting at times, I am aware of that, that was not one of the times though.
But anyhow, I think we have both said what we need to on this. :tongue:
Smithy
11-05-2014, 09:03 PM
Cherie, Daniel_, Drew., Firewire, Hayden, jackc1806, JackF, JohnnyBB, Livia, Petemitch, reece(:, RichardG, Saph, smudgie,.
mods have some cherries to pop :dazzler:
First time i was banned, was by vicky because I was a "ginger prick" :fist:
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 09:04 PM
:joker:
Jemal
11-05-2014, 09:04 PM
^
Lord ben.. Your post had to get in the ****ing way you ****ing ****.
Anyways that arrow was for smithy.
Pete.
11-05-2014, 09:04 PM
Cherie, Daniel_, Drew., Firewire, Hayden, jackc1806, JackF, JohnnyBB, Livia, Petemitch, reece(:, RichardG, Saph, smudgie,.
mods have some cherries to pop :dazzler:
First time i was banned, was by vicky because I was a "ginger prick" :fist:
Stay pressed at our flawless track record
Vicky.
11-05-2014, 09:05 PM
I mean the fact that some of you had posted in the thread with the other comment and yet it remained left there.
I still fail to see how what I said was insulting, and yes I can be insulting at times, I am aware of that, that was not one of the times though.
But anyhow, I think we have both said what we need to on this. :tongue:
Oh my..I didnt even know what the warning was for til now
'**** Off & Die!!!!:xyxwave:' for someone making up a (ridiculous..OTT) nickname for a housemate :umm2:
Vicky.
11-05-2014, 09:06 PM
Cherie, Daniel_, Drew., Firewire, Hayden, jackc1806, JackF, JohnnyBB, Livia, Petemitch, reece(:, RichardG, Saph, smudgie,.
mods have some cherries to pop :dazzler:
First time i was banned, was by vicky because I was a "ginger prick" :fist:
ROFL :laugh2:
Pete.
11-05-2014, 09:06 PM
The dramz continues
Jessica.
11-05-2014, 09:08 PM
March 2010 :lovedup:
http://puu.sh/8IAlJ.png
Vanessa
11-05-2014, 09:09 PM
:laugh2: Sorry, Jess. That's hilarious.
Vicky.
11-05-2014, 09:09 PM
:hehe::hehe:
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 09:10 PM
Oh my..I didnt even know what the warning was for til now
'**** Off & Die!!!!:xyxwave:' for someone making up a (ridiculous..OTT) nickname for a housemate :umm2:
Yeah, that was what I reported. :laugh:
lily.
11-05-2014, 09:12 PM
I was permabanned in 2007. Came back in 2009 I think after much discussion with James.
Benjamin
11-05-2014, 09:12 PM
the bring back stropz campaign :laugh:
Marsh.
11-05-2014, 09:14 PM
I was permabanned in 2007. Came back in 2009 I think after much discussion with James.
Banned for?
I love it when someone brings up a thread from like 5 years ago and you scroll through it and most of the members are perma banned :joker:
Headie
11-05-2014, 09:14 PM
March 2010 :lovedup:
http://puu.sh/8IAlJ.png
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn269/NCLulz/Charley%20Uchea%20Album/charley6.gif
Pete.
11-05-2014, 09:16 PM
I love it when someone brings up a thread from like 5 years ago and you scroll through it and most of the members are perma banned :joker:
Me too
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn269/NCLulz/Charley%20Uchea%20Album/charley6.gif
InOne
11-05-2014, 09:18 PM
4 times over the years.
lily.
11-05-2014, 09:18 PM
Banned for?
Myself and another member were banned because we had a slight disagreement for a few months.
Me. I Am Salman
11-05-2014, 10:56 PM
Yeah, I was banned for the longest amount of time (i think) without being perma'd, which was two years.
how did the mods actually find out btw :laugh:
Black Dagger
11-05-2014, 10:57 PM
A fair few times, but I'm well behaved and mature now xo
Kizzy
11-05-2014, 11:01 PM
Yeah.. once I actually deserved it :hehe:
Pete.
12-05-2014, 07:25 PM
oops
iconic ban however
Kizzy
12-05-2014, 07:28 PM
I thought you said you hadn't been banned?...
Niamh.
12-05-2014, 07:32 PM
Never even had a warning :angel:
Smithy
12-05-2014, 07:33 PM
oops
why were you banned :joker:
Pete.
12-05-2014, 07:34 PM
Never even had a warning :angel:
http://37.media.tumblr.com/d0bd64c804c0a39685d948ec9504f1e8/tumblr_meryuoi3qP1r3ty02o1_500.gif
how did the mods actually find out btw :laugh:
They didn't, It was just a rumour.. That happened to be true :laugh:
Crimson Dynamo
12-05-2014, 07:38 PM
http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/12650000/ngbbs464e824bcb331.jpg
I was wondering what religion is Holiness the Pope was?
Me. I Am Salman
12-05-2014, 07:45 PM
They didn't, It was just a rumour.. That happened to be true :laugh:
why would they ban you based on a rumour?
Nope, never even had a warning
Smithy
12-05-2014, 07:47 PM
why would they ban you based on a rumour?
It wasn't a rumour, someone showed them his fb page
Pete.
12-05-2014, 07:48 PM
but those under 13 aren't allowed fb
http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar13520_113.gif
Smithy
12-05-2014, 07:49 PM
but those under 13 aren't allowed fb
http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar13520_113.gif
tom breaking all the rules i see
http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar13520_113.gif
Me. I Am Salman
12-05-2014, 07:53 PM
It wasn't a rumour, someone showed them his fb page
why did you lie Tom
why would they ban you based on a rumour?
People got Personal Details.
Edit: Changed this cause people will just mock me
BBfanUSA
12-05-2014, 08:02 PM
Other than a warning that my sig was too big.
I haven't received a ban.
Jordan.
12-05-2014, 08:55 PM
I had my privacy robbed at age 11
I laughed, only on tibb
Brother Leon
12-05-2014, 09:06 PM
Nop.
Apple202
12-05-2014, 10:25 PM
yeah but havent been (i dont think at least) this year
lily.
12-05-2014, 10:27 PM
Nope, never even had a warning
Bawbag.
Marsh.
12-05-2014, 10:29 PM
Nope, never even had a warning
In 9 years? You must be a rarity? :laugh:
Marsh.
12-05-2014, 10:30 PM
I had my brothers banned. Poor 06, 07...
Daniel.
16-04-2015, 05:28 PM
No
Daniel_
My innocent times :sad:
Vanessa
16-04-2015, 05:30 PM
Yes, a while back. :laugh:
Crimson Dynamo
16-04-2015, 05:30 PM
I recently got infracted for baiting myself!
truefact
Daniel.
16-04-2015, 05:34 PM
I plan to not get banned again
https://24.media.tumblr.com/409bd52d0b234f130f1f539149caef95/tumblr_n4z833JrCj1r86b1po1_250.gif
Smithy
16-04-2015, 05:35 PM
Lol @ so many of the no's now being perm or indefinite
LukeB
16-04-2015, 05:42 PM
No i haven't doubt i will either :p
RichardG
16-04-2015, 05:59 PM
no :angel:
kirklancaster
16-04-2015, 06:00 PM
I recently got infracted for baiting myself!
truefact
:joker: Believe it or not - so did I.
kirklancaster
16-04-2015, 06:01 PM
I've been banned twice.
Crimson Dynamo
16-04-2015, 06:09 PM
No I have never been banned and I never will
:angel:
and frankly its disgusting that so many members have like Marsh, Joeysteele and Kirk, to name but 3 serial offenders (who i feel will be banned again and soon)
such anger and aggression is not needed on Tibb :nono:
why cant we all be friends and live?
let tibb live
and think of the children too
Marsh.
16-04-2015, 06:10 PM
Not LT throwing mud on my golden reputation.
Crimson Dynamo
16-04-2015, 06:12 PM
Not LT throwing mud on my golden reputation.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/13/article-1044642-024489B000000578-890_468x491.jpg
kirklancaster
16-04-2015, 06:49 PM
No I have never been banned and I never will
:angel:
and frankly its disgusting that so many members have like Marsh, Joeysteele and Kirk, to name but 3 serial offenders (who i feel will be banned again and soon)
such anger and aggression is not needed on Tibb :nono:
why cant we all be friends and live?
let tibb live
and think of the children too
:joker::joker::joker: You are NUTS!
Crimson Dynamo
16-04-2015, 06:51 PM
:joker::joker::joker: You are NUTS!
http://terencebunch.co.uk/protest-photographer/tamil-hunger-strike-day-18-parliament-square-london-24-04-2009/tamil-hunger-strike-day-18-shouting-at-british-government-london-24-04-2009.jpg
MODS
Marsh.
16-04-2015, 06:52 PM
This was a year ago
http://33.media.tumblr.com/d1a4a0df2284f5b5dacae3ba56a03bc5/tumblr_nbdm3wp9Aa1sry60to1_500.gif
Pete.
16-04-2015, 06:52 PM
I didn't exactly cough like a man but ok
billy123
16-04-2015, 06:54 PM
No im too perfect to be banned and i have never been infracted either.
kirklancaster
16-04-2015, 07:17 PM
http://terencebunch.co.uk/protest-photographer/tamil-hunger-strike-day-18-parliament-square-london-24-04-2009/tamil-hunger-strike-day-18-shouting-at-british-government-london-24-04-2009.jpg
MODS
:laugh: MODS for someone off his ROCKER!:joker:
kirklancaster
16-04-2015, 07:18 PM
No im too perfect to be banned and i have never been infracted either.
:laugh: Or too clever to get caught Bob:hehe:
Amy Jade
16-04-2015, 08:18 PM
I asked to be banned for 6 months if that counts?
GypsyGoth
16-04-2015, 09:50 PM
I've never been banned.
Fetch The Bolt Cutters
16-04-2015, 09:55 PM
omg
Ninastar
16-04-2015, 09:57 PM
I've never been banned.
lies
GypsyGoth
16-04-2015, 09:58 PM
lies
:laugh:
Smithy
16-04-2015, 09:59 PM
Claudia have you ever even been warned of infracted?
GypsyGoth
16-04-2015, 10:10 PM
Claudia have you ever even been warned of infracted?
Nope, but anytime a mod or admin deletes one of my posts, I take that as a warning :laugh:
I've never been perma-banned. :angel:
.
Daniel.
16-04-2015, 10:15 PM
What makes some people get indefinites and some permanent when people with permanent bans can come back I'm interested
Fetch The Bolt Cutters
16-04-2015, 10:15 PM
what
GypsyGoth
16-04-2015, 10:20 PM
What makes some people get indefinites and some permanent when people with permanent bans can come back I'm interested
I believe the mods & admin review both those types of bans after a while. So they sometimes give a person another chance.
Indefinite bans were a new thing a year or two back to leave it open so that we have the flexibility to review long-term bans after however long. Before then everyone was just whacked on a perma. We would only use a perma now in the most very, very extreme circumstances
Vicky.
16-04-2015, 10:26 PM
What makes some people get indefinites and some permanent when people with permanent bans can come back I'm interested
We decided that usually a permaban is too definite...so we kinda review bans every now and then now. Unless its clearly obvious a perma is deserved
lily.
17-04-2015, 04:50 PM
Nope, but anytime a mod or admin deletes one of my posts, I take that as a warning :laugh:
I usually take that as my cue to either:
a) repost the offending article
b) say something which I consider witty whilst still offensive
or
c) both of the above
Crimson Dynamo
17-04-2015, 05:01 PM
Indefinite bans were a new thing a year or two back to leave it open so that we have the flexibility to review long-term bans after however long. Before then everyone was just whacked on a perma. We would only use a perma now in the most very, very extreme circumstances
I think we should have a russian roulette ban that you fire at 6 people each day from the lounge but only one gets a 3 day ban
:think:
That would make the lounge edgy and dangerous :worry:
kirklancaster
17-04-2015, 07:02 PM
I think we should have a Tibb Court of Appeal where penalised members can appeal their sentences and plead their case in front of a panel of Judges made up from ordinary Tibb members presided over by a Mod. The panel and Mod can be rotated on a weekly basis.
It may not achieve that much by way of actual appeals 'allowed' but it will definitely be entertaining. :laugh:
Pete.
17-04-2015, 07:06 PM
It wouldn't work especially in public
We used to have a private appeal section, It would be good to have it back; especially with infractions that are given for misunderstandings
Niamh.
17-04-2015, 07:40 PM
We used to have a private appeal section, It would be good to have it back; especially with infractions that are given for misunderstandings
I couldn't think of anything worse then having the appeals section back
Fetch The Bolt Cutters
17-04-2015, 07:43 PM
the appeals section was amazing :flutter:
i remember whenever i was banned i would try to talk to the mods about dancing on ice and stuff but they just ignored me
Marsh.
17-04-2015, 07:43 PM
the appeals section was amazing :flutter:
i remember whenever i was banned i would try to talk to the mods about dancing on ice and stuff but they just ignored me
:joker:
Pete.
17-04-2015, 07:43 PM
:laugh:
Vicky.
17-04-2015, 07:48 PM
Nothing will ever beat lockes appeals tbh
Marsh.
17-04-2015, 07:49 PM
What did Locke do?
Vicky.
17-04-2015, 07:49 PM
But generally, the appeals section was so messy. And scott, things like that were part of the reason it disappeared :nono:
Fetch The Bolt Cutters
17-04-2015, 07:50 PM
soz
Vicky.
17-04-2015, 07:51 PM
Cant get into the section to check, but Im sure it was locke who would tell a little story everytime he got an infraction and threaten us with armys and such :think:
Glenn.
17-04-2015, 07:52 PM
You got there in the end Vicky :joker:
Marsh.
17-04-2015, 07:53 PM
Cant get into the section to check, but Im sure it was locke who would tell a little story everytime he got an infraction and threaten us with armys and such :think:
:joker:
Fetch The Bolt Cutters
17-04-2015, 07:54 PM
Cant get into the section to check, but Im sure it was locke who would tell a little story everytime he got an infraction and threaten us with armys and such :think:
remember his and novo's dungeons and dragons roleplay when they would just be like 'shut up foolish woman and get cleaning my chainmail'
Marsh.
17-04-2015, 07:57 PM
:joker: WTF?
Smithy
17-04-2015, 07:59 PM
Nope, but anytime a mod or admin deletes one of my posts, I take that as a warning :laugh:
omg thats so cute :joker::joker:
Jake.
17-04-2015, 08:00 PM
remember his and novo's dungeons and dragons roleplay when they would just be like 'shut up foolish woman and get cleaning my chainmail'
:joker:
Smithy
17-04-2015, 08:01 PM
remember his and novo's dungeons and dragons roleplay when they would just be like 'shut up foolish woman and get cleaning my chainmail'
Loras Tyrell teas
Daniel.
17-04-2015, 08:02 PM
It's better sending it through a PM it to appeal someone's ban
GypsyGoth
17-04-2015, 10:35 PM
I usually take that as my cue to either:
a) repost the offending article
b) say something which I consider witty whilst still offensive
or
c) both of the above
:laugh2:
Denver
19-04-2015, 01:20 PM
No have yet to be banned but have come close as my problem is I can't help but bite back
Banned members disgust me.
Firewire
19-04-2015, 01:51 PM
I have not :smug:
Fetch The Bolt Cutters
19-04-2015, 01:57 PM
Banned members disgust me.
cindy lou shade?
BlankSpace
19-04-2015, 02:15 PM
I haven't been on this forum for a month so no, but give it a few months and I will probably will be banned lol :joker:
Mitchell
19-04-2015, 04:47 PM
Got banned for two days for watching that corrie thing they had on BBC Four :p
cindy lou shade?
Do not look at me you filthy trouble maker :nono:
Smithy
19-04-2015, 05:52 PM
No tea, no shade, no pink lemonade but a lot of the "No" voters are giving me BB4 teas :fan:
Pete.
19-04-2015, 05:57 PM
Jasmine Masters has graced the thread
Crimson Dynamo
19-04-2015, 08:09 PM
I find a good ban purges the soul
Marsh.
19-04-2015, 08:11 PM
cindy lou shade?
:joker:
Marsh.
19-04-2015, 08:11 PM
No tea, no shade, no pink lemonade but a lot of the "No" voters are giving me BB4 teas :fan:
:joker:
Daniel.
19-04-2015, 08:12 PM
I voted before I was banned
user104658
19-04-2015, 08:31 PM
No! Which is almost miraculous given my track record with forums... my first "home" I was on for nearly 10 years (staring 1999) and not only was I frequently banned, but at one point my username was actually starred out by the swear filter :joker: :joker:.
My second "home" I ended up with a permanent ban, for quite explicitly threatening to brutally kill a member who wished a miscarriage upon me and my now-wife when we were expecting our first. I think I was a bit like marmite on that forum. Some of the admins loved me, others despised me.
Everyone loves me on here. Obvz. I've never even had an infraction! *ahem*
Heaven = Winner
19-04-2015, 09:39 PM
The mods love me, so ofc not.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/12de25fe10472ad0eb793e39e31eb54d/tumblr_inline_n0neswHnrj1qexfme.gif
lily.
20-04-2015, 02:27 PM
No! Which is almost miraculous given my track record with forums... my first "home" I was on for nearly 10 years (staring 1999) and not only was I frequently banned, but at one point my username was actually starred out by the swear filter :joker: :joker:.
My second "home" I ended up with a permanent ban, for quite explicitly threatening to brutally kill a member who wished a miscarriage upon me and my now-wife when we were expecting our first. I think I was a bit like marmite on that forum. Some of the admins loved me, others despised me.
Everyone loves me on here. Obvz. I've never even had an infraction! *ahem*
Well, I like you.. so..
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