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View Full Version : Ch5HD Big Brother Discussion 9PM Saturday 21/6/14


arista
21-06-2014, 06:03 PM
9PM tonight


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/20/article-0-1EFA2E8B00000578-499_634x406.jpg
Yes you can Smile
but you do not like the Hate


Tough Titty


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/20/article-2664087-1EFA6D7900000578-990_634x448.jpg
And You - Pull Your Socks Up Honey

Tarryn
21-06-2014, 06:06 PM
I think there will be a lot of Jale hate from the likes of Steven tonight. If not, he must have realised just how unpopular Pauline AND he was last night.

Me. I Am Salman
21-06-2014, 06:07 PM
still reeling for poline
http://s10.postimg.org/4z2er2hmd/image.jpg

arista
21-06-2014, 06:14 PM
I think there will be a lot of Jale hate from the likes of Steven tonight. If not, he must have realised just how unpopular Pauline AND he was last night.


Yes we get to hear
Loud Booos from this side of the house
and Stevens glum look

arista
21-06-2014, 07:55 PM
On in a few mins

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 07:55 PM
Will Steven cry this episode? :joker:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 07:58 PM
I feel my booty.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 07:58 PM
evening everyone!:wavey:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 07:59 PM
heyyy

arista
21-06-2014, 08:00 PM
On now

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:00 PM
oh cass<3

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:00 PM
PREVIOUSLY

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:02 PM
No one watching tonight?

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:02 PM
I'm watching.:cheer2:

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:03 PM
Evening everyone :)

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:03 PM
Poline is gone all ninja.

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:03 PM
Hello all :wavey:.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:03 PM
Looks like a good episode.

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:04 PM
hello http://i41.tinypic.com/11uanwi.jpg

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:05 PM
Mark tells it like he's blameless, he's as much as a follower of Poline as anyone else, in fact he's been her main apologist and cheerleader.

smeagol
21-06-2014, 08:06 PM
mark is faking it in the bathroom. haha he fakes it everyday

arista
21-06-2014, 08:06 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/20/article-2664087-1EFA8A5000000578-583_634x355.jpg
Cheer Up

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:06 PM
Ooh, loving the sound of the task.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:06 PM
Mark tells it like he's blameless, he's as much as a follower of Poline as anyone else, in fact he's been her main apologist and cheerleader.

:worship:

He only changed his tune when he heard Pauline get booed and Jale cheered.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:07 PM
http://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/star-wars/online/images/BookImages/ewok.jpg
That beard makes Mark look like an ewok on star wars.

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:07 PM
Haha I love tasks like this.

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:08 PM
:worship:

He only changed his tune when he heard Pauline get booed and Jale cheered.

Very true.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:08 PM
OMG love Mark.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:09 PM
It's sad when Cass has said more during the breaks than Ashleigh has said in the house.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:10 PM
It's sad when Cass has said more during the breaks than Ashleigh has said in the house.

:joker:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:11 PM
Looking forward to Mark's breakdown.

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:11 PM
oops Forgot this started at 9, can somebody fill me in what has happened

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:11 PM
Looking forward to Mark's breakdown.

Me too and Stevens monolog of wo is me wo is me me me. With tears.

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:12 PM
Marcus getting that Netflix gig :worship:

Alf
21-06-2014, 08:12 PM
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Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:12 PM
oops Forgot this started at 9, can somebody fill me in what has happened

nothing interesting

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:13 PM
Oh god, he's narrating the adverts now as well.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:13 PM
They should give Cass the narrating job over Marcus.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:13 PM
oops Forgot this started at 9, can somebody fill me in what has happened

Nothing much, Mark told Toya Jale was upset earlier in the week the rest is nothing really.

Tregard
21-06-2014, 08:13 PM
Not here for Marcus also narrating the fecking adverts.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:14 PM
Loving this task, not going to lie.

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:14 PM
I like this task.

Saph
21-06-2014, 08:14 PM
oops i forgot it was on :(

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:14 PM
This should of been the shopping task

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:14 PM
Mark :joker:

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:15 PM
"I'm not playing"

:laugh2:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:15 PM
Mark is hilar

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:15 PM
Mark the shrieking nazi.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:15 PM
Mark isnt even funny he's pathetic

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:16 PM
As if Mark hasn't been cuffed before. lol

Gusto Brunt
21-06-2014, 08:16 PM
Mark isnt even funny he's pathetic

I think he's funny.:joker:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:17 PM
Mark's gutted.

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:17 PM
Great task.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:18 PM
http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar63928_24.gif
Chris fan tho...

armand.kay
21-06-2014, 08:18 PM
I'm 15 minutes behind.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:18 PM
Why so greedy? I'd just find the one for myself and then let everybody else keep everything...

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:19 PM
Why so greedy? I'd just find the one for myself and then let everybody else keep everything...

Mama Piss wants them donuts.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:19 PM
But what does the chocolate doughnut represent?

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:19 PM
We don't see enough of The Pod.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:19 PM
Mama Piss wants them donuts.

:joker:

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:19 PM
Marks tea leaves :joker:

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:20 PM
Don't need to be psychic to know she was going ffs

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:20 PM
:laugh: he must have felt totally betrayed later.

fitz2k2
21-06-2014, 08:20 PM
lies by toya

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:21 PM
lol

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:21 PM
Toya.. i know you'll stay Christmas. 30 seconds later i choose christmas for eviction. lolol

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:21 PM
One less vote for toya :clap1:

Alf
21-06-2014, 08:21 PM
Stuffing her gob again, greedy old snatch

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:21 PM
Ermm he didnt think Tamara would go the pillock

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:22 PM
The Pod was the most hyped up part of the house and it's never used. :laugh:

MB.
21-06-2014, 08:22 PM
Why is SuperCass doing a South African accent

Rob!
21-06-2014, 08:23 PM
This episode so far :love:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:23 PM
On her eviction emma will say... and here are your best bits Ashleigh... Then they will show Cass's advert break clips instead cos Ashleighs done nowt. lol

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:24 PM
The Pod was the most hyped up part of the house and it's never used. :laugh:

The gurls use it to break wind in.

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:25 PM
Yea the pod is a failure.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:25 PM
They need to make the diary room chair like the one on that ejection tv show.

Firewire
21-06-2014, 08:26 PM
Highly offensive language? ooh

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:26 PM
Strong language warning :love:

Rob!
21-06-2014, 08:26 PM
Omg we're totally gonna get an uncensored ****. :lovedup:

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:26 PM
Good ol' Hairdresser Marlon.

Jamesy
21-06-2014, 08:27 PM
Highly offensive language?! Are we getting the c-bomb?!

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:27 PM
Yea the pod is a failure.

I think they've made it too open for bitching to happen. The fact that half the glass is missing on the front is silly, they should have just had a small window like The Loft.

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:27 PM
just skip until Paulines out plz

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:27 PM
Why are people rejoicing over strong language?..

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:28 PM
That's pretty good advice from Poline.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:28 PM
The strong language warning is for when Toya gets the power and Mark says...Oh my *******ing god i'm gonna have to ar**lick that all week to survive.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:29 PM
Stop trying to make your Fate is sealed happen Emma

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:29 PM
Mark's faces :joker:

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:29 PM
Can't wait to see Helen's reaction to the chants to get her out :hehe:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:30 PM
Poline bullying to the end.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:30 PM
Pauline lol

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:31 PM
Paulines last words :love:

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:31 PM
The strong language warning is for when Toya gets the power and Mark says...Oh my *******ing god i'm gonna have to ar**lick that all week to survive.

:joker:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:31 PM
Jale is ecstatic.

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:31 PM
Danielle having a meltdown <3

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:31 PM
After hearing 'Get Helen Out' Mark will distance himself he's so predictable.

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:32 PM
:facepalm: at this bit.


But I love that they drowned Marcus out.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:32 PM
:joker:

you know it's true. :joker:

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:32 PM
Where was the c-bomb?

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:32 PM
http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/nene-girl-bye.gif

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:32 PM
Jale the only one telling the truth :love:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:32 PM
Cry it out lads

Headie
21-06-2014, 08:33 PM
She never got to turn 50 in the house :(

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:33 PM
Where was the c-bomb?

They would get complaints if they aired that on the show.

edit: maybe they will :laugh:

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:33 PM
There it was.

Rob!
21-06-2014, 08:33 PM
Uncensored ****! :dance:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:33 PM
She never got to turn 50 in the house :(

She can turn 50 in the care home.

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:33 PM
They would get complaints if they aired that on the show.

I meant where was it supposed to have been said?

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:33 PM
She can turn 50 in the care home.

:hehe:

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:34 PM
Ashleigh :facepalm:

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:34 PM
She can turn 50 in the care home.

:clap1:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:34 PM
It's like she's died.

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:34 PM
Danielle: *breaking down crying* "don't you dare say that" :joker:

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:34 PM
Ashleigh: Good.

:eek: :joker:

I thought she was getting friendly with Helen?

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:34 PM
Danielle: *breaking down crying* "don't you dare say that" :joker:

wtf was that:joker:

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:34 PM
I meant where was it supposed to have been said?

Jale said it when she was talking to Danielle.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
Ashleigh: Good.

:eek: :joker:

I thought she was getting friendly with Helen?

:shocked:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
Marks constipation gets cured in this moment.

fitz2k2
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
danille excited hen crowded wanted Helen out

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
Stephen giving a eulogy. :hehe:

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
I meant where was it supposed to have been said?

I heard that Poline is meant to have said it just before she left. I guess having Jale mention she was called it seemed better.

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
Toya being the most popular housemate in the house :clap1:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
Toya u perfect slut.

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
I'm kinda glad Kim didn't get it, it's a bit of a poisoned chalice this week.

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:35 PM
I heard that Poline is meant to have said it just before she left. I guess having Jale mention she was called it seemed better.

I hate this confusing editing. :fist:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:36 PM
Toya being the most popular housemate in the house :clap1:

When will Christopher?

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:36 PM
Toya being the most popular housemate in the house :clap1:

So was Pauline, that worked out well :flutter:

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:36 PM
Up for nomination :facepalm:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:36 PM
Lol.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:37 PM
We choose the first guy saved by the public because we is clever. lol

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:37 PM
Danielle i luv u

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:37 PM
Oohhhh

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Aww Toya has picked him for his own good, that was so nice of her.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Toya hammering nails into her own coffin.:joker:

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Christopher keeps turning it into a row

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Christopher stop trying to be a drama queen.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Leave him alone, Toya.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Toya hammering nails into her own coffin.:joker:

Christopher is in the wrong.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Toya made a bee line for Christopher. He started nothing.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:39 PM
What happened to Helen loving Jale?

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Aww Toya has picked him for his own good, that was so nice of her.

:joker:

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Leave him alone, Toya.

She's trying to explain to him and Christopher is just truing it into an argument

fitz2k2
21-06-2014, 08:39 PM
toya is fake

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Toya made a bee line for Christopher. He started nothing.

no boo

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Was that Kim helping Helen? :nono:

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:40 PM
Get Matthew Out!

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:40 PM
Was that Kim helping Helen? :nono:

And rightly so.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:40 PM
Get Matthew Out!

:shrug:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:40 PM
She's trying to explain to him and Christopher is just truing it into an argument

I disagree because Christopher said can we not talk about this right now. She would not let it go.

Jamie585
21-06-2014, 08:40 PM
WTF is with Super Casandra tonight? Hahahahaha

fitz2k2
21-06-2014, 08:41 PM
And rightly so.

get Kimberly out

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:41 PM
She's trying to explain to him and Christopher is just truing it into an argument

No he's not and frankly she has used the 'don't talk to me line before' and expected it to be respected so she should respect him wanting to do the same.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:41 PM
No he's not and frankly she has used the 'don't talk to me line before' and expected it to be respected so she should respect him wanting to do the same.

This 1000%

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:43 PM
"Do you honestly think that I'm the type of person to start arguments in here?"

:laugh2: Is she serious?

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:43 PM
"Do you honestly think that I'm the type of person to start arguments in here?"

:laugh2: Is she serious?

:joker::joker::joker:

Jamie585
21-06-2014, 08:43 PM
Is super Casandra on drugs?

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:43 PM
Helen returning to her ways.

You can't be fake 24/7. :smug:

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:44 PM
Ashleigh :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Jamie585
21-06-2014, 08:44 PM
Disliking Ashleigh more and more

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:44 PM
Kim>>>Both these minions.

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:44 PM
Toya & Ashleigh :love:

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:45 PM
Ashleigh is like Gretchen Weiners, she doesn't think for herself at all she just agrees with whoever she thinks is more popular.

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:45 PM
Ashleigh's opinions depend on who she's talking to. :shrug:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:45 PM
Christopher talking sense.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:46 PM
Those 3 ( Jale, Chris and Christopher) will bring the rest of the house down for sure.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:48 PM
I like Kim too but this Steven thing is letting her down for such an educated girl.

Jamie585
21-06-2014, 08:48 PM
Toya Is slowing turning people against Kimberly!!

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:49 PM
That song that Mark was singing :facepalm:

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Toya must want Steven herself but why would he give up steak for a maccys

GiRTh
21-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Still cant stand any of them

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Anyone who wears a cap backwards is a no no.

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Marlon & Jale dropping the truth.

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:50 PM
Jale spilling the tea :worship:

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:50 PM
I like Kim too but this Steven thing is letting her down for such an educated girl.

In her defence though she has made it pretty clear she is not interested in a relationship she just gravitates towards him because he is quite intelligent.

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:50 PM
Anyone who wears a cap backwards is a no no.

I think it suits him, and he might not be allowed to wear it the other way as it'd hide his face.

armand.kay
21-06-2014, 08:50 PM
I'm here for Toya's coven,

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:50 PM
Let's watch Ashleigh agree with him.

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:51 PM
Steven so oblivious welp

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:51 PM
I'm here for Toya's coven,

Make the most of it she'll be out soon :hehe:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:51 PM
In her defence though she has made it pretty clear she is not interested in a relationship she just gravitates towards him because he is quite intelligent.

For a guy who's a millionaire who lives with his mummy at home in the box room?

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:52 PM
Toya being smart and choosing Matt to make him not nom her :clap1:

armand.kay
21-06-2014, 08:52 PM
Make the most of it she'll be out soon :hehe:

Weren't you so sure Danni was going week one?

armand.kay
21-06-2014, 08:53 PM
Ashley :lovedup:

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:53 PM
They think the same but could not reach a decision together on who to put up for nomination. lol

fitz2k2
21-06-2014, 08:53 PM
go away Danielle stop following ashleigh

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:53 PM
2 minutes behind lol.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:53 PM
For a guy who's a millionaire who lives with his mummy at home in the box room?

He has made out he's a succesful business man and faked being well traveled.

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:54 PM
Helen's back to hating Jale

GiRTh
21-06-2014, 08:54 PM
Werent mark and Helen just talking about nominations

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:54 PM
He has made out he's a succesful business man and faked being well traveled.

Going to Pontins 119 times is not 119 countires.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:54 PM
Weren't you so sure Danni was going week one?

No I was one of the few who said Tamara would go, Danielle is one of my favourites.

Brother Leon
21-06-2014, 08:55 PM
The Tea Leaves have told Mark all about Helen :worship:

armand.kay
21-06-2014, 08:55 PM
Ashley may be young but I think she could actually scalp Helen.

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:55 PM
:suspect: doesn't Helen hate Kimberly?

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:56 PM
Love Helen and Mark.

zakman440
21-06-2014, 08:56 PM
****ing bitch.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:56 PM
I don't want this episode to end.

GypsyGoth
21-06-2014, 08:56 PM
:suspect: doesn't Helen hate Kimberly?

They are on the same side for the moment. Tomorrow she'll become her rival again.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 08:57 PM
The Tea Leaves have told Mark all about Helen :worship:

Tea leaves showing a 3sum with a crap footy player is like a 99 billion to one chance. :joker:

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:57 PM
:umm2:

Jordan.
21-06-2014, 08:57 PM
done with kim atm

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:57 PM
WTF.

Samm
21-06-2014, 08:57 PM
done with kim atm

Put toya in your sig

GiRTh
21-06-2014, 08:58 PM
they're all horrendous

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:58 PM
Kim needs to get away from that group and back with Saint Danielle tbh

armand.kay
21-06-2014, 08:58 PM
Stashing wine in her fanny? Kinga's impact.

Me. I Am Salman
21-06-2014, 08:58 PM
poor slug :(

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:58 PM
Mean bitches.

Soz Helen babe.

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 08:58 PM
Helen's back to hating Jale

She wishes that white dress could fit her as good.

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 08:59 PM
Stashing wine in her fanny? Kinga's impact.

:laugh:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:59 PM
Selfish bitches.

fitz2k2
21-06-2014, 08:59 PM
kim will be up next week

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:59 PM
What gives them 4 more rights to the drink than everybody else?

Cal.
21-06-2014, 08:59 PM
Omg cheers to Pauline, why

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 09:00 PM
Helen taking other people things for herself. :hehe:

This is getting to be quite the habit.

Cal.
21-06-2014, 09:00 PM
Helen taking other people things for herself. :hehe:

This is getting to be quite the habit.

:joker:

Samm
21-06-2014, 09:01 PM
Rip Anna Nicole smith

Cal.
21-06-2014, 09:01 PM
I don't want Helen to be alpha female to be honest.

Johnnyuk123
21-06-2014, 09:01 PM
Has Winston left the house?

Saph
21-06-2014, 09:02 PM
Stashing wine in her fanny? Kinga's impact.

:love:

MB.
21-06-2014, 09:02 PM
Has Winston left the house?

How else are Tesco going to get through the night shift?

Marsh.
21-06-2014, 09:02 PM
"Matthew trust me, I know"

"Tea leaves?"

:laugh2:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 09:02 PM
Has Winston left the house?

He might as well have. He won't have any slight impact until he wins. :nono:

Amy Jade
21-06-2014, 09:03 PM
How else are Tesco going to get through the night shift?

:hehe:

Cal.
21-06-2014, 09:04 PM
How else are Tesco going to get through the night shift?

:joker:

lily.
22-06-2014, 06:34 PM
Werent mark and Helen just talking about nominations

I'm late to the party, cos I only just watched last night's HLs...

However, this crossed my mind too G... I thought it was a bit of scheming so that they could do some tactical nominations... which I thought was against the rules... but who knows .. since they make up the rules as they go along these days..